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Quetta Hazaras despair as religious supremacists contest election

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Source - https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/f...macists-contest-election-180712222735530.html

Quetta Hazaras despair as religious supremacists contest election

Members of minority say authorities gave clean slate to leader blamed for hundreds dead.

Asad Hashim

Ramzan Mengal, the Balochistan chief of the ASWJ, has been seen leading crowds chanting slogans demonising Shia Muslims as apostates

Quetta, Pakistan - Ramzan Mengal smiles broadly and often as he speaks about politics, seated on the floor in his mud-and-brick home in southern Quetta, the capital of Pakistan's Balochistan province.

He wears traditional dress - a white shalwar kurta, brown waistcoat, and a black turban that is indicative of his stature as a Muslim leader.

He claims he has been allowed to campaign freely ahead of Pakistan's general election on July 25.

"No restrictions at all," he says. "I have police security during the election campaign. When I take out a rally in my area, I telephone the police and am given guards for it."

Mengal is the provincial chief of the Ahle Sunnat Wal Jammat (ASWJ), a far-right religious group that declares members of Islam's Shia sect to be heretics, and has been banned by Pakistan as a "terrorist" organisation.

Since 2013, more than 509 Shia Muslims - mainly ethnic Hazaras - have been killed in a campaign of targeted shootings and bombings in Balochistan province, according to government data.

Mengal says his party has no connection to the violence, but police have arrested him several times in recent years during investigations into the attacks.

He has often been seen leading crowds of hundreds in chants of "Kaafir, kaafir, Shia kaafir!", "Apostates, apostates, Shias are apostates!".


In 2016, the State Bank ordered banks to freeze his accounts under anti-terrorism laws.

"In the last two years, in Balochistan there has been a crackdown against us," he says. "Including myself, all of my leaders were arrested. Thankfully, of those 100 who were arrested, now only five or six are still in custody."

Having been cleared by the election commission, Mengal is among more than 150 ASWJ candidates running for seats in Pakistan's National Assembly.


Ramzan Mengal's election posters carry a picture of himself, as well as of ASWJ chief Ahmed Ludhianvi (top left). He is fighting under the election symbol of an "iron"

Earlier this month, authorities lifted restrictions on Ahmed Ludhianvi, the ASWJ chief, under an anti-terrorism law, allowing him to move freely for the first time in years, a spokesperson told Al Jazeera.

The party draws its support base mainly from Quetta, the southern city of Karachi and central Punjab province, where the movement was founded.

On Tuesday, the ASWJ tweeted a picture of outgoing Pakistani prime minister and PML-N leader Shahid Khaqan Abbasi meeting its leadership in Islamabad. Sadaqat Ali, the opposition PTI leader running against Abbasi, had also approached the party, ASWJ spokesperson Oneeb Farooqui said.

"All parties are coming to us to ask us for our support," he told Al Jazeera. "We have not yet decided on a national level to support anyone. But our individual candidates do have the power to decide to support other candidates in their areas."

Farooqui argued that the ASWJ was distinct from the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LeJ), an armed group it split from in 1996 which has claimed several attacks against Shia Muslims.


It is eerie, walking down the dusty "lane of martyrs" in Quetta's Marriabad graveyard, stepping past dozens of portraits of those killed in the campaign against the city's roughly 600,000 Hazaras.

The dead include young and old, some killed in targeted shootings, others by planted bombs or suicide attackers.

In their portraits, some are smiling, while others bear a grim expression. As the lane winds on, the number of photographs seems scarcely believable.

Then, the graves. Row upon row of low white marble or concrete structures, the Shia "alam", a religious flag, flying above many of them.

Hameeda Hazara, a rights activist and election candidate, says she feels 'despair' that the ASWJ is allowed to run in the elections

Members of the Hazara community are not convinced that the ASWJ is disconnected from those who killed their family members.

"It is very disappointing - for some it was shocking, but for me it was like despair, when I heard [Ramzan Mengal] was running," says Hameeda Hazara, also a candidate in the elections.

For Agha Raza Hassan, a Hazara community leader, the ASWJ - and Mengal in particular - provide political and ideological cover for the LeJ to carry out the killings.

"The political wing attempts to get into the parliament and protect those doing the killing," he says. "And then they have the ideological wing, in the form of seminaries, which gives them raw materials [for LeJ]."

Mengal's own seminary remains sealed under provincial anti-terrorism laws, but he insists he is following the rules.

"This code of conduct that we have from the Election Commission," he says, pulling out a copy from his desk. "This is applicable to everyone, and we are following it as well."


Provincial home minister Agha Umar Bangulzai told Al Jazeera that authorities would monitor Mengal's political activities for violations of hate speech laws and the election commission's code, as they do for all candidates.

Some have welcomed the ASWJ's involvement in politics, under what has been described by officials as a "mainstreaming" effort by the Pakistani state.


The ASWJ is not the only group accused of links to armed groups in these elections.

The Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD), a humanitarian aid organisation designated by the United Nations as a front for the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), is also taking part, under the banner of the Milli Muslim League (MML).

While the election commission has refused to officially register the MML as a party, an MML spokesperson told Al Jazeera it was putting up more than 300 candidates for national and provincial seats.

Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, the JuD chief and LeT founder accused of plotting the 2008 Mumbai attacks, has also been leading MML campaign rallies across the country.

In June, Pakistan was placed on the Financial Action Task Force (FATF)'s grey list, for failing to adequately crack down on the funding of armed groups such as the LeJ and JuD.

Back at Mengal's home in Quetta, the ASWJ leader is careful not to mention sectarian politics.

"We have decided not to use that slogan, for politics," he says, referring to the chant - "Apostates, apostates, Shia are apostates!"

Above him, a green, red, black and white ASWJ party flag flies in the summer breeze.

How disturbing is it that we are allowing monsters like ASWJ, TLP, AAT, etc to run in our national elections? How can this be allowed to happen? How could it be that established political parties even considered giving tickets to individuals like Mian Mithoo in Sindh?

Surely the leadership of these extremist groups should all be behind bars instead of campaigning during elections and being provided security.
 
Sad to note that there has not been a single post on this thread in two days since it was posted.

Religious extremism and the politics of fanaticism are the biggest issues facing the nation.

I guess it is easier to bury our heads in the sand rather than to acknowledge how cheap we consider the blood of our fellow Pakistanis to be.

I am sure if this thread had been about the treatment of Muslims in occupied Kashmir, India, Palestine, Syria or Burma there would have been at least one post in the last 48 hours.
 
I think I overlooked this post before.

What is happening to our Hazara brothers and sisters is extremely sad and unfortunate. I know a lot of them here in New Zealand, they came here on a boat as refugees and are doing very well here now. They were first treated as third class citizens in Afghanistan and were the "servant class", not given any oppurtunities in society. They moved to Pakistan in the search of a better life, but unfortunately Pakistan failed them too.

Pakistan has completely failed its minorities. There has been a lot of talk of Ahmedis recently, but the fact is that even Shias remain one of the most discriminated against people in the country too. Being Shia, I have heard a lot stories about the lives of other Shias in Pakistan. What they have to go through is awful. We hear of killings very close to home a lot more often than we should. I have even heard many cases where a Shia applied for a job, and one of the questions in the interview was "are you a Shia?", and upon answering "yes", they were rejected. Many of my relatives have changed their names so that they are not easily identifiable, and they have even started praying like Sunnis when in public. Unfortunately, extremism is so deeply entrenched into Pakistani society that it is hard to believe it can ever be defeated.
 
I think I overlooked this post before.

What is happening to our Hazara brothers and sisters is extremely sad and unfortunate. I know a lot of them here in New Zealand, they came here on a boat as refugees and are doing very well here now. They were first treated as third class citizens in Afghanistan and were the "servant class", not given any oppurtunities in society. They moved to Pakistan in the search of a better life, but unfortunately Pakistan failed them too.

Pakistan has completely failed its minorities. There has been a lot of talk of Ahmedis recently, but the fact is that even Shias remain one of the most discriminated against people in the country too. Being Shia, I have heard a lot stories about the lives of other Shias in Pakistan. What they have to go through is awful. We hear of killings very close to home a lot more often than we should. I have even heard many cases where a Shia applied for a job, and one of the questions in the interview was "are you a Shia?", and upon answering "yes", they were rejected. Many of my relatives have changed their names so that they are not easily identifiable, and they have even started praying like Sunnis when in public. Unfortunately, extremism is so deeply entrenched into Pakistani society that it is hard to believe it can ever be defeated.

Thanks for sharing. I didn't know that there was a significant Hazara presence in New Zealand. I hope their community can finally find the respect and tolerance they deserve.

Your comments about Shias are so heartbreaking.

I really hope we can find away to build a more tolerant and pluralist society.
 
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Thanks for sharing. I didn't know that there was a significant Hazara presence in New Zealand. I hope their community can finally find the respect and tolerance they deserve.

Your comments about Shias are so heartbreaking.

I really hope we can find away to build a more tolerant and pluralist society.

This is absolutely true for the vast majority of Pakistani Shias, most of us have had to experience these types of situations. I hardly have any family left in Pakistan, all of them have fled because life was becoming far too difficult for them. The few family members I have left in Pakistan are in the process of leaving. It's not like we wanted to leave Pakistan, we simply did not have any other choice.
 
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Religious fanaticism is the biggest hurdle this country faces. Left unchecked it will drown us. Unfortunately, most politicians are too scared to dscuss it, and the less said about the army the better.
 
Religious fanaticism is the biggest hurdle this country faces. Left unchecked it will drown us. Unfortunately, most politicians are too scared to dscuss it, and the less said about the army the better.

Completely agree. We are already drowning.
 
Hazaras are great people, Pakistan should do their best to protect them. They left Afghanistan in the late 19th/early 20thcentury because of the genocide there engineered by the Afghan monarch, that genocide has still gone unrecognized around the world and the Afghan govt has yet to apologize and amends for it. These people left Afghanistan for a better a life in Pakistan and it's a shame they're being targeted again in Pakistan. Maybe an autonomous region in Balochistan for ethnic hazaras could be carved out protecting them from the sectarian and racial violence they face.
 
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Maybe an autonomous region in Balochistan for ethnic hazaras could be carved out protecting them from the sectarian and racial violence they face.

Bhai do you think this would work? What about cracking down on terrorist organisations which target them and providing legal safeguards to protect minority communities?
 
Bhai do you think this would work? What about cracking down on terrorist organisations which target them and providing legal safeguards to protect minority communities?

Make this nation's economy better and watch how these groups will disappear. The only real solution. Fighting with bullets won't do nothing. It won't end the ideology.

I understand that you want to highlight minority issue and everyone in Pakistan should to be a great nation but when you do that you need to, in your opinion, provide a solution, too.

Other than all you are doing is highlighting issue, which majority of Pakistani already do.
 
Make this nation's economy better and watch how these groups will disappear. The only real solution. Fighting with bullets won't do nothing. It won't end the ideology.

I understand that you want to highlight minority issue and everyone in Pakistan should to be a great nation but when you do that you need to, in your opinion, provide a solution, too.

Other than all you are doing is highlighting issue, which majority of Pakistani already do.

This is not the case in my opinion. This thread is example of this. Look at how few replies it has had even though fanaticism the most important issue in Pakistan.

In my opinion, the solution, as indicated in the opening post, would be to ban these individuals from taking part in elections, have them investigated, and if guilty of expressing extremist views (which they very likely all are), they should be jailed and banned from public preaching.

We need to take steps to remove this cancer from our society before it is too late.
 
Bhai do you think this would work? What about cracking down on terrorist organisations which target them and providing legal safeguards to protect minority communities?

I feel like protecting them from their historical enemies would work. Hazaras were uprooted from their homeland, Hazarajat in central Afghanistan under the pashtunization policy of some Afghan king.

I think Pakistan should set up a Hazara regiment, train them and then give them an autonomous terriroty so they can fight back.
 
The short term solution is to protect them. I don't think I would be too difficult to have soldiers protecting their areas for some time, considering how big Pakistan's army is. The Shia pilgrim buses travelling to Iran via Balochistan also need protection, that bus is attacked way too often.

The long term solution is to develop Balochistan as a province, provide good quality education, regulate the curriculum in madrassahs as well as mainstream them by introducing academic subjects such as maths and sciences into their curriculum. Terrorists also need to be banned from elections and also need to be banned from speaking publicly and spreading their filth.
 
They left Afghanistan in the late 19th/early 20thcentury because of the genocide there engineered by the Afghan monarch, that genocide has still gone unrecognized around the world and the Afghan govt has yet to apologize and amends for it. These people left Afghanistan <b>for a better a life in Pakistan</b>

Better life in India. Pakistan did not exist during the 19th/early 20th century.
 
Source - https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/f...macists-contest-election-180712222735530.html



How disturbing is it that we are allowing monsters like ASWJ, TLP, AAT, etc to run in our national elections? How can this be allowed to happen? How could it be that established political parties even considered giving tickets to individuals like Mian Mithoo in Sindh?

Surely the leadership of these extremist groups should all be behind bars instead of campaigning during elections and being provided security.

Being Shia, I have heard a lot stories about the lives of other Shias in Pakistan. What they have to go through is awful. We hear of killings very close to home a lot more often than we should. I have even heard many cases where a Shia applied for a job, and one of the questions in the interview was "are you a Shia?", and upon answering "yes", they were rejected. Many of my relatives have changed their names so that they are not easily identifiable, and they have even started praying like Sunnis when in public. Unfortunately, extremism is so deeply entrenched into Pakistani society that it is hard to believe it can ever be defeated.

Quite ironical. Jinnah, a Shia was the "Father of Pakistan". Now there is an "ongoing genocide of shias" in Pakistan and many have fled. According to Jinnah's nephew Akbar Pirbhai, Jinnah's own sister is supposed to have been assassinated by the Pakistani establishment.

In the meantime, Azim Premji another Shia whose family chose to remain in India after the Partition, goes on to become for a while the second richest man in the world.
[MENTION=131115]crick[/MENTION]ejoshila [MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION] [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION] [MENTION=146346]Mr.Q[/MENTION] [MENTION=137893]enkidu_[/MENTION]
 
Quite ironical. Jinnah, a Shia was the "Father of Pakistan". Now there is an "ongoing genocide of shias" in Pakistan and many have fled. According to Jinnah's nephew Akbar Pirbhai, Jinnah's own sister is supposed to have been assassinated by the Pakistani establishment.

In the meantime, Azim Premji another Shia whose family chose to remain in India after the Partition, goes on to become for a while the second richest man in the world.
[MENTION=131115]crick[/MENTION]ejoshila [MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION] [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION] [MENTION=146346]Mr.Q[/MENTION] [MENTION=137893]enkidu_[/MENTION]

Now you're just cherry picking, there are many successful shias in Pakistan and most Indians probably wouldn't even know that they were shias.
 
You're just nitpicking now. Everybody gets my point, doesn't matter if it was Pakistan or British India.

It is not nitpicking, given the vastly different treatments minorities have experienced in the two countries.
 
Now you're just cherry picking, there are many successful shias in Pakistan and most Indians probably wouldn't even know that they were shias.

Is that because they are afraid to reveal that they are Shias as @hurrain.r97 mentioned in the post above?

Perhaps you also disagree that there is an "ongoing genocide of shias" in Pakistan.
 
The fact that the likes of Khadim Rizvi can hold the government hostage for days and then his supporters being paid the bus fare back home should ring many alarm bells. The uneducated and brainwashed Awaam doesn't help either. The problem is that Pakistan was formed to be an Islamic republic and even the slightest of provocation can cause the illiterate or ill educated (religiously) to come on to the streets for protests or lynch someone accused of blasphemy. 90% of them don't even know why they are doing it.

This Mullah threat is a very dangerous one and can only be eradicated by eradicating the brainwashed (easier and faster solution) or educating them (harder and longer solution)
 
Is that because they are afraid to reveal that they are Shias as @hurrain.r97 mentioned in the post above?

Perhaps you also disagree that there is an "ongoing genocide of shias" in Pakistan.

Read my comment above about Hazaras, I've always been for protecting minorities in Pakistan. Of course Shias are one of the biggest victims of extremism. And lol @ people not revealing they're shias. What i meant was that many Pakistanis know of successful shias but Indians wouldn't know cause you guys can't tell a shia from a Sunni. The current President is also a Shia, so is Bilawal who most Indians don't like cause of his Pro-Kashmir speeches.
 
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Read my comment above about Hazaras, I've always been for protecting minorities in Pakistan. Of course Shias are one of the biggest victims of extremism.

My posts were not about what you believe, they were about the creation of Pakistan and subsequent events.
 
Quite ironical. Jinnah, a Shia was the "Father of Pakistan". Now there is an "ongoing genocide of shias" in Pakistan and many have fled. According to Jinnah's nephew Akbar Pirbhai, Jinnah's own sister is supposed to have been assassinated by the Pakistani establishment.

In the meantime, Azim Premji another Shia whose family chose to remain in India after the Partition, goes on to become for a while the second richest man in the world.
[MENTION=131115]crick[/MENTION]ejoshila [MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION] [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION] [MENTION=146346]Mr.Q[/MENTION] [MENTION=137893]enkidu_[/MENTION]

Let's not pretend things in India are much better. Living in New Zealand, I know a ton of Indian Muslims who left India for similar reasons as us shias left Pakistan. Having a Shia billionaire in India is meaningless, there are a lot of wealthy and influential Shias in Pakistan too.
 
My posts were not about what you believe, they were about the creation of Pakistan and subsequent events.

Your post was actually quite pathetic cause you started contrasting some successful indian shia to the state of Pakistani Shias, I know that sectarian violence is worse in Pakistan and Shias are relatively safer in India however naming rich and famous people from a community doesn't mean that they aren't disenfranchised, I could name many successful Pakistani Shias but that doesn't erase that they're an oppressed minority.
 
Quite ironical. Jinnah, a Shia was the "Father of Pakistan". Now there is an "ongoing genocide of shias" in Pakistan and many have fled. According to Jinnah's nephew Akbar Pirbhai, Jinnah's own sister is supposed to have been assassinated by the Pakistani establishment.

In the meantime, Azim Premji another Shia whose family chose to remain in India after the Partition, goes on to become for a while the second richest man in the world.
[MENTION=131115]crick[/MENTION]ejoshila [MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION] [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION] [MENTION=146346]Mr.Q[/MENTION] [MENTION=137893]enkidu_[/MENTION]

Persecution of Fatima Jinnah is well known, and it was due to her political enmity (with Ayyub Khan), not her religious views.

There's not a "genocide" of Shi'as. Words have meaning. A genocide is the methodical target of an ethnic or religious minority group by the State or its institutions. There's sectarian tension but those who are "systematically" targeted are Hazaras, because they stand out "ethnically" as well, and these attacks are carried by anti-State elements if anything (in Balochistan), or those complicit with some major political elements (in Sindh/Punjab), but without open support from the State. There are problems but talking of "genocide", like what Abdur Rahman Khan, emir of Afghanistan, enacted at the end of the 19th century, killing off around 60% of Hazaras going by some estimations, is an hyperbole.

And you think that a billionaire is representative of anything ? Why not talk of Salman Khan as well, then ? Because Deepak Parwani is one of the most sought after fashion designers in Pak does that mean that the local Sindhi Hindus (for the most part Dalits) are well off, as a generic rule ? You remind me of American conservatives pinpointing few prominent Black figures to deny the problems of the "average" African-American.
 
Let's not pretend things in India are much better. Living in New Zealand, I know a ton of Indian Muslims who left India for similar reasons as us shias left Pakistan. Having a Shia billionaire in India is meaningless, there are a lot of wealthy and influential Shias in Pakistan too.

You are very mistaken if you think there is anything remotely like an "ongoing genocide of shias" in India.
 
There's not a "genocide" of Shi'as. Words have meaning. A genocide is the methodical target of an ethnic or religious minority group by the State or its institutions. There's sectarian tension but those who are "systematically" targeted are Hazaras, because they stand out.

Shias are the victim of genocide in various parts of the country, mainly Balochistan and Parachinar. In the rest of Pakistan, I would not call it sectarian tension, as it is the Shias being targeted, not the other way around. Apart from the mentioned areas, it may not be at the level of genocide yet, but it is really clear that elements from the state are involved in targeted attacks on Shias, directly or indirectly. Just look at the amount of terrorists and extremists contesting the elections, including extremists in some of the mainstream political parties. These people openly call for our death, and they are allowed to, state does absolutely nothing about it
 
He is sunni, but he somehow ended up reading a (very poisonous) majlis in one of the Imambargahs in Karachi, that's why people call him Shia.

Don't care if he is a shia or a sunni but is for certain a very vile human being. One should watch his antics during interludes in his "Islamic" shows. His recent walk out drama made me despise him even more, can't believe how rational people can support him, but so is this jaahil (religion wise) qaum. Anyone knowing a couple of Hadith's (verified or unverified) can fool them make them dance to their tune.

The guy who said a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing was absolutely correct.
 
You are very mistaken if you think there is anything remotely like an "ongoing genocide of shias" in India.

Is there anything at the level of genocide in Pakistan? (apart from Quetta and Parachinar) I don't think so. But yes, Shias are victims of discrimination and targeted violence, comparable to how Muslims are treated in India.
 
Shias are the victim of genocide in various parts of the country, mainly Balochistan and Parachinar. In the rest of Pakistan, I would not call it sectarian tension, as it is the Shias being targeted, not the other way around. Apart from the mentioned areas, it may not be at the level of genocide yet, but it is really clear that elements from the state are involved in targeted attacks on Shias, directly or indirectly. Just look at the amount of terrorists and extremists contesting the elections, including extremists in some of the mainstream political parties. These people openly call for our death, and they are allowed to, state does absolutely nothing about it

My best friend is a Shia and it didn't really matter (we grew up in Dubai) until we lived in Karachi. A really brainwashed, intolerant and jahil qaum.
 
Don't care if he is a shia or a sunni but is for certain a very vile human being. One should watch his antics during interludes in his "Islamic" shows. His recent walk out drama made me despise him even more, can't believe how rational people can support him, but so is this jaahil (religion wise) qaum. Anyone knowing a couple of Hadith's (verified or unverified) can fool them make them dance to their tune.

The guy who said a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing was absolutely correct.

The guy is poisonous. He read a majlis in a Shia mosque, God knows who let him sit on the mimbar, but he sat there and started non stop cursing the first three Khalifas, etc. Such things are extremely poisonous and only create further problems.
 
My best friend is a Shia and it didn't really matter (we grew up in Dubai) until we lived in Karachi. A really brainwashed, intolerant and jahil qaum.

The types of things spread about shias in Pakistan is absolutely crazy. There are a lot of lies and misconceptions in people's minds, and they aren't prepared to listen to us when we try and correct them. I remember we had the parents of some friends here over for dinner, a reasonably educated family. They were seemingly a bit uneasy and curious about Shias. The old man picked up our Quran to see what's inside and was surprised to see its the exact same book, and said "so then what's the difference between us? The book is the same, I thought its different."
 
Persecution of Fatima Jinnah is well known, and it was due to her political enmity (with Ayyub Khan), not her religious views.

There's not a "genocide" of Shi'as. Words have meaning.

I put the words "ongoing genocide of shias" in quotes because they were not my words. If you wish to debate the accuracy of this phrase, the author (a Pakistani Shia) may be contacted at @merabichrayaar

And you think that a billionaire is representative of anything? Why not talk of Salman Khan as well, then ? Because Deepak Parwani is one of the most sought after fashion designers in Pak does that mean that the local Sindhi Hindus (for the most part Dalits) are well off, as a generic rule? You remind me of American conservatives pinpointing few prominent Black figures to deny the problems of the "average" African-American.

Premji is notable also because he was for a long time the richest Indian. As for Parwani you are scraping the bottom of the barrel if the best you can come up with is "one of the most sought after fashion designers in Pak".
 
Is there anything at the level of genocide in Pakistan? (apart from Quetta and Parachinar) I don't think so. But yes, Shias are victims of discrimination and targeted violence, comparable to how Muslims are treated in India.

You have no clue about anything. How many Shias (or for that matter Sunnis) have been murdered in India in the last 10 years due to their religion, and how many in Pakistan?

And don't cite Kashmiris who have been killed after they attacked security forces. This is entirely different from what is happening in Pakistan.
 
I put the words "ongoing genocide of shias" in quotes because they were not my words. If you wish to debate the accuracy of this phrase, the author (a Pakistani Shia) may be contacted at @merabichrayaar

I am Pakistani Shia too, and I can assure you that we are not facing genocide in most of the country, just some pockets. Yes, we face discrimination, but it's definitely not genocide. If there was a genocide going on there is absolutely no way I could even think of visiting Pakistan.
 
You have no clue about anything. How many Shias (or for that matter Sunnis) have been murdered in India in the last 10 years due to their religion, and how many in Pakistan?

And don't cite Kashmiris who have been killed after they attacked security forces. This is entirely different from what is happening in Pakistan.

Dude there are people getting lynched for eating beef in India. Ask any of our Kashmiri posters here, even in their Muslim majoroty province they're not allowed to eat beef. America is way better than India, we have the freedom to choose over here.
 
You have no clue about anything. How many Shias (or for that matter Sunnis) have been murdered in India in the last 10 years due to their religion, and how many in Pakistan?

And don't cite Kashmiris who have been killed after they attacked security forces. This is entirely different from what is happening in Pakistan.

Its not like we're being lined up in the streets and shot at. Are you denying that Muslims in India face discrimination over jobs, houses etc? All my Indian Muslim friends have clearly told me that Muslims living in Muslim pockets live in fear. There have been cases of people coming to poison their water supply and such things. Are you also denying the killings of Muslims over accusations of eating beef? Wasn't there a "cow protection brigade" in India?
 
Its not like we're being lined up in the streets and shot at. Are you denying that Muslims in India face discrimination over jobs, houses etc? All my Indian Muslim friends have clearly told me that Muslims living in Muslim pockets live in fear. There have been cases of people coming to poison their water supply and such things.

I believe poisoning of water supply is a fabrication that is used by various people or groups at various times. I haven't found any credible reports.

Are you also denying the killings of Muslims over accusations of eating beef? Wasn't there a "cow protection brigade" in India?

Yes, this has happened and is totally unacceptable. Sadly India is not perfect, and all Indians need to support the punishment of the culprits so that this never happens again.
 
I believe poisoning of water supply is a fabrication that is used by various people or groups at various times. I haven't found any credible reports.

Call it a fabrication if you want, but I know real people, who I trust, who are patriotic about India, who have lived through that.
 
Call it a fabrication if you want, but I know real people, who I trust, who are patriotic about India, who have lived through that.

I couldn't find any reference to water supply poisoning, and only very few instances outside India:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_terrorism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_poisoning

A water supply isn't easy to poison, needs a huge amount of contaminant. If you have any reference I am interested in learning more.
 
I couldn't find any reference to water supply poisoning, and only very few instances outside India:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_terrorism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_poisoning

A water supply isn't easy to poison, needs a huge amount of contaminant. If you have any reference I am interested in learning more.

I am only telling you what I heard from them. But ok, let's suppose that it isn't true. The "beef lynchings" and discrimination when it comes to jobs, houses, etc is bad enough alone.

There are areas in India with more hate than others too, like Gujrat. We all know what happened in Gujrat, and I have seen a very bitter and hateful attitude among some Gujratis here, many of who suggest that Muslims do not belong in India and should be loaded on a truck and handed over to Pakistan. All in all, even the lynchings and discrimination alone makes the situation of Muslims in India almost on par with Shias in Pakistan. It is ridiculous to so generally say that Shias in Pakistan are worse off than Muslims in India. India has a serious problem with minorities too, but people don't want to admit it.
 
I am Pakistani Shia too, and I can assure you that we are not facing genocide in most of the country, just some pockets. Yes, we face discrimination, but it's definitely not genocide. If there was a genocide going on there is absolutely no way I could even think of visiting Pakistan.

This is true. But let’s be honest man. Discrimination is not limited to ‘some’ pockets. Uneducated Sunnis are quite intolerant. In areas where they’re a majority, there is discrimination. And this is universal. If it happens here in India, it must be there in Pakistan too.

In India, the bodies representing the two aren’t in agreement either. One has a hardline stand on religion and the other has a liberal stand.
 
This is true. But let’s be honest man. Discrimination is not limited to ‘some’ pockets. Uneducated Sunnis are quite intolerant. In areas where they’re a majority, there is discrimination. And this is universal. If it happens here in India, it must be there in Pakistan too.

In India, the bodies representing the two aren’t in agreement either. One has a hardline stand on religion and the other has a liberal stand.

Discrimination and violence are happening against Shias all over the country. I meant that it's only at the level of genocide in some pockets such as Balochistan and Parachinar.
 
Discrimination and violence are happening against Shias all over the country. I meant that it's only at the level of genocide in some pockets such as Balochistan and Parachinar.

Yeah I agree with that part.
 
The short term solution is to protect them. I don't think I would be too difficult to have soldiers protecting their areas for some time, considering how big Pakistan's army is. The Shia pilgrim buses travelling to Iran via Balochistan also need protection, that bus is attacked way too often.

The long term solution is to develop Balochistan as a province, provide good quality education, regulate the curriculum in madrassahs as well as mainstream them by introducing academic subjects such as maths and sciences into their curriculum. Terrorists also need to be banned from elections and also need to be banned from speaking publicly and spreading their filth.

Especially agree with the bit in bold. We need to crack down on these extremists before things implode.
 
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