Racism in cricket

[Abdullah719]

England's Carberry says racism cost him county spot

London (AFP) - Former England batsman Michael Carberry said Wednesday that racism cost him a place at one of his four county clubs.

Carberry, who represented Surrey, Kent, Hampshire and Leicestershire, as well as playing six Tests for England, told the Cricket Badger podcast: "I think other players who laugh it off want acceptance, they don't want to get dropped, or put a left hook on that guy.

"Not hit him, but have a harsh word with him and say, 'Listen mate, don't ever say that to me again', because that guy may have a massive powerful influence in the team.

The 39-year-old added: "I've almost come close to making a coach spit 32 (teeth) out on the ground for stuff that he said to me.

"'I couldn't see you in the dark' and 'What are the brothers having tonight? Bit of fried chicken and rice and peas tonight?’

"I had to drag him out on the balcony and say: 'Listen, let me ask you something mate. How much time have you spent in Black company? And he literally wet his pants. He literally hung his head like a little child.

"Bear in mind, I'm putting my career (on the line), and it probably ended up being the final nail in my coffin in that club.

"I won't name the club. But these are the things you have to weigh up when you hear things like this in your company."

Carberry's comments came as cricket weighs up how best to respond to the worldwide Black Lives Matter protests that have taken place following the police killing of George Floyd in the United States.

West Indies captain Jason Holder, speaking the day after his squad arrived in England ahead of next month's Test series, was unsure how his team-mates would react to the campaign.

"Who knows, this could be something serious we could build on and we could get some real positive energy through the group," he said.

"Only after we sit down and discuss and get a common sense of where everybody's mind is at, will we then formulate our plans."

https://sports.yahoo.com/englands-carberry-says-racism-cost-him-county-spot-193009641--spt.html

 

[Abdullah719]

Aakash Chopra says he faced racism while playing league cricket in England

New Delhi, Jun 10 (PTI) Former India opener Aakash Chopra has alleged that he was subjected to racist remarks during his stint in England''s league cricket.

The former Indian batsman, who played for the Marylebone Cricket Club back in 2007, said that he was called "****", a racial slur directed at people of South Asian origin, primarily in English-speaking countries.

"We (cricketers) at one point or the other, have been victims of racism. I remember when I used to play league cricket in England, there were two South Africans in one of the opposition teams and both of them really went on an abusive spree," Chopra said on his YouTube channel.

"Even when I was at the non-striker's end, they were after my life. They were constantly calling me ****. Now many believe **** is a short form of Pakistan but that is not true. If you are brown skinned. If you''re anywhere from Asian subcontinent, this term is used to racially abuse," he added.

Chopra said his team backed him but that didn''t change the fact that the two players racially abused him.

"You''re called ****, and nobody likes it. The moment you call anybody **** in England, you know the intention behind it. That''s what happened with me at that time. My team stood by me but the truth is the person in front of me was doing it," he recalled.

The 42-year-old, who has featured in 10 Tests for India, spoke about how deep-rooted the problem is all around the globe.

"Even if you''re white-skinned, it happens then as well. When they come to this part of the world, they also subjected to this kind of behaviour," Chopra said.

He recalled the infamous incident when Australian Andrew Symonds was subjected to monkey chants while fielding in India.

"In fact, when Andrew Symonds came to India, so many Monkey chants started filling up the Wankhede Stadium. That is when people were told that your entry will be banned," Chopra said.

Chopra''s comments have come after the West Indies duo of former World Cup-winning captain Darren Sammy and star batsman Chris Gayle, alleged racial abuse while denouncing the death of African-American George at the hands of a white police officer.

In the wake of Floyd''s death, which triggered violent protests in the US, international cricketers have opened up on their own experience in dealing with racism.

Sammy, while commenting on the protests, had spoken about being called ''Kalu'' -- a derogatory word to describe black people -- by his Sunrisers Hyderbad teammates, including senior India pacer Ishant Sharma, while playing in the Indian Premier League. PTI APA PM PM

https://www.outlookindia.com/newssc...ile-playing-league-cricket-in-england/1861896

 

[Hawkeye]

Yep, sad indeed.

From our side, we should have made an example out of Sarfraz. Sadly, he got away with it, and now laughs at that incident as if it was a joke.

Nobody should get away from it now in PK cricket, if it happens again.

 

[Rana]

Chopra is right. English county/premier league, County 2nd XI and Minor county cricket is a very difficult space to be in as a south Asian cricketer. Especially if you do not try to assimilate the white culture. It’s the reason why you do not see equal diversity in 99% of cricket clubs in England.

 

[MenInG]

Poll added - please vote

 

[Saj]

I remember going for Under 13 trials for a local prestigious club.

There were a few 25 over matches played. When I finally got my chance I scored a 50 off 30 or so balls and took 3 for 18 from my 5 overs. I was man of the match.

In one of the other matches my Sikh friend score 60 and was man of the match.

Did either of us get picked for the Under 13 team...……….no we didn't.

 

[Rana]

I remember going for Under 13 trials for a local prestigious club.

There were a few 25 over matches played. When I finally got my chance I scored a 50 off 30 or so balls and took 3 for 18 from my 5 overs. I was man of the match.

In one of the other matches my Sikh friend score 60 and was man of the match.

Did either of us get picked for the Under 13 team...……….no we didn't.

Very sad to hear this.

This is going to change InshAllah

 

[Mueez]

Racism happens everywhere in every field.

It will change one day iA!

 

[sweep_shot]

It is a minor problem in cricket. Nothing more.

No need to make a big deal out of this.

 

[Rana]

It is a minor problem in cricket. Nothing more.

No need to make a big deal out of this.

It’s a very, very big problem in England. The county circuits are very unfair. The amount of pathetic one dimensional cricketers who get selected to represent counties just because they came through a public school and have a strong English background. Lots of talented non white kids get lost in the system, the margin for error for them is minimal whereas the privileged kids get a lot of backing and support.

 

[Junaids]

Yep, sad indeed.

From our side, we should have made an example out of Sarfraz. Sadly, he got away with it, and now laughs at that incident as if it was a joke.

Nobody should get away from it now in PK cricket, if it happens again.

Perfect post.

I could not agree more. Sarfraz was the captain too and was a man in his thirties - he should have had the book thrown at him for what he did. In fact, he should have had the whole bookcase thrown at him.

 

[junoon]

Yep, sad indeed.

From our side, we should have made an example out of Sarfraz. Sadly, he got away with it, and now laughs at that incident as if it was a joke.

Nobody should get away from it now in PK cricket, if it happens again.

He was banned for 4 matches, and also apologised to Phehlukwayo.
What more do you want? A life ban?

 

[Junaids]

I remember going for Under 13 trials for a local prestigious club.

There were a few 25 over matches played. When I finally got my chance I scored a 50 off 30 or so balls and took 3 for 18 from my 5 overs. I was man of the match.

In one of the other matches my Sikh friend score 60 and was man of the match.

Did either of us get picked for the Under 13 team...……….no we didn't.

Racism in England has reached a funny point.

There is still the elitism at the top of the class system, where if you are Imran or Majid Khan or Benazir Bhutto and you go to Oxford University you are above 95% of white British people in the class system.

But if you are from more humble roots and you are of Asian origin and appear affiliated with that background - through dress or language - you are viewed as less British than if you are of West Indian origin.

There is a really complex interface here between race, language and culture. One of the reasons why I'm one of the few educated British people who voted for Brexit is because I viewed it as deeply racist to accept Freedom Of Movement for European Union citizens (99% of those who arrived were white) which acted to at the same time minimize Commonwealth immigration.

[MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] talked about his experiences when he was excluded as an Under-13 cricketer. It always appalls me that someone like him may have a dual cultural background, but is British in every way, steeped in every cultural influence from Paul Daniels to Duran Duran, whereas Polish immigrants "look" white but have grown up in a different culture in their own country, which they largely remain immersed in after they move to the UK.

If you stopped a dozen Polish or Romanian immigrants in the street and interviewed them about British culture, cuisine, anything, they would clearly be seen to be less "British" than British Pakistanis. But still colour-based prejudice trumps that.

 

[Robert]

Racism in England has reached a funny point.

There is still the elitism at the top of the class system, where if you are Imran or Majid Khan or Benazir Bhutto and you go to Oxford University you are above 95% of white British people in the class system.

But if you are from more humble roots and you are of Asian origin and appear affiliated with that background - through dress or language - you are viewed as less British than if you are of West Indian origin.

There is a really complex interface here between race, language and culture. One of the reasons why I'm one of the few educated British people who voted for Brexit is because I viewed it as deeply racist to accept Freedom Of Movement for European Union citizens (99% of those who arrived were white) which acted to at the same time minimize Commonwealth immigration.

[MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] talked about his experiences when he was excluded as an Under-13 cricketer. It always appalls me that someone like him may have a dual cultural background, but is British in every way, steeped in every cultural influence from Paul Daniels to Duran Duran, whereas Polish immigrants "look" white but have grown up in a different culture in their own country, which they largely remain immersed in after they move to the UK.

If you stopped a dozen Polish or Romanian immigrants in the street and interviewed them about British culture, cuisine, anything, they would clearly be seen to be less "British" than British Pakistanis. But still colour-based prejudice trumps that.

That’s very interesting to read and something I had not really considered. I voted Remain because I could not bear the thought of all the job losses, home repossessions, and general loss of services and living standards which all except the well-off (of all races) will suffer on Leaving.

The radicalised white racists who voted for Brexit will be shocked when more black and brown immigrants appear on the streets instead of fewer. And the hard right will start to march.

 

[Saj]

It's a worldwide problem too, not just an English problem.

We've seen examples of this in the recent past.

 

[MenInG]

Monty Panesar believes England should initiate a minute's silence ahead of the first Test against West Indies to support the Black Lives Matter movement.

England seamer James Anderson and West Indies captain Jason Holder have both said discussions will take place among their respective teams about how to promote racial equality during their behind-closed-doors Test series next month at The Ageas Bowl and Emirates Old Trafford.

A number of sports stars have spoken out about racism since the death of George Floyd, who was killed in Minneapolis in May when a white police officer knelt on his neck for nearly nine minutes.

England fast bowler James Anderson says the England squad will discuss how to support the Black Lives Matter movement ahead of their return to action against the West Indies.

Speaking to Sky Sports News, Panesar said England should adopt a similar approach to Ajax and Heracles Almelo, who stood still for the first minute of their Eredivisie match in November after a player from fellow Dutch side Excelsior was subjected to racist abuse.

He feels England could have done that after seamer Jofra Archer was racially abused during this winter's tour of New Zealand.

"What I felt the England team should have done when Archer was racially abused is had a one minute's silence in the next Test match," Panesar said.

"I don't think cricket faces racism as strongly as football does but I thought that could have been that opportunity. Ajax did it, saying we are not going to play football if there is racism.

The ICC has released a video to promote its anti-racism message and highlight the importance of diversity and inclusivity.

"So, at the start of this Test match, it is a great opportunity for a one minute's silence and to say we are not going to play if there is racism in our society. I think it would be a brilliant example. Sport plays a part in spreading strong messages."

Panesar, the first Sikh spinner to play for England, has hailed the diversity within the current England set-up but admits that the England and Wales Cricket Board needs a broader range of cultures in the board room.

"I think the England cricket team is a prime example of how multi-national companies can learn," said the former Northamptonshire and Essex bowler.

"In the World Cup Super Over we had an Irish guy [Eoin Morgan] giving the leadership skills to a guy from Barbados [Jofra Archer], while we had a New Zealander [Ben Stokes] hitting sixes and Jos Buttler from England. That is diversity.

England's Chris Jordan says England cricket leads the way in terms of diversity.

"Morgan wanted to know the diverse range of his players and early on had conversations in front of the team with Moeen Ali and Adil Rashid about the Muslim religion, their practices and traditions.

"Forty or 50 years ago you had to be an upper-class white person to play for England but things have changed. Morgan has said the [World Cup-winning] team drew strength from their diversity.

"I think other sports can learn from the ECB and the England team about how to embrace diversity and strengthen their team.

"I do think it needs to start growing in the [management] sector. A lot of positions are held by white people, so we need to start bringing in people of different backgrounds into leadership positions.

"That is something the ECB will probably look into. I believe the ECB can be the leading governing body in this country for all other companies to learn from."

Former England batsman Michael Carberry told Sky Sports News on Thursday that black cricketers feel like they are risking their careers if they try to confront prejudice in dressing rooms.

Panesar, who joined Carberry on England's Ashes tour of Australia in 2013-14, added: "I think the ECB and PCA do a brilliant job but I don't know how hard it is for a black person and that is maybe something they need to address with someone like Michael Carberry.

"It is very difficult to understand what Michael went through - I think the racism of black people is greater than any other race. It must be difficult for him to talk about such sensitive topics.

"I think you have to be in the shoes of a black person to understand what real racism is. It is different to someone like myself, who is Asian.

"I have seen it myself, in my younger days - when I was with some of my black friends, I would often see more police cars."

Responding to Carberry's comments, the ECB told Sky Sports News: "We listened carefully to Michael Carberry's interview and admire him for speaking out on this crucial topic. We know that systemic racism spans institutions and sectors across the country and we would be naïve to think that sport and cricket is immune.

"We have made big strides over the past few years. Our 2018 Inclusion and Diversity Plan drove investments in diversifying cricket, breaking down barriers and reforming our structures.

"It supported reform in our approach to participation and growth with the launch of our South Asian Action Plan which showed how much we needed to do across the recreational game, elite pathway, coaching, attendance, media, communications, administration and culture.

"This is already having positive results for all BAME groups, including the installation of non-traditional playing facilities in urban areas, the recruitment of BAME female community mentors and the delivery of cricket at schools with a higher than national average representation of BAME pupils. This is a lengthy process but we are committed to making it a success.

"We know we have a long way to go until we are fully representative as a sport, particularly in relation to black communities. That's why voices like Michael's are so important and we will continue to listen, educate ourselves and face uncomfortable truths in order to create action and long-term change."


https://www.skysports.com/cricket/n...ilence-againt-west-indies-to-support-movement

 

[Rana]

Who remembers Stuart Broad throwing the ball at Zulqarnain Haider for no reason?

I hope he is never allowed to forget this action and has to answer forever

 

[Rana]

Also Craig Overton calling a British Pakistani player a P@ki who should go back to his country. This cannot be forgotten either!

 

[Rana]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...rset-craig-overton-apologise-racist-behaviour

This guy is being prepared to take over after Jimmy and Broad! Sickening

 

[Saj]

Racism in England has reached a funny point.

There is still the elitism at the top of the class system, where if you are Imran or Majid Khan or Benazir Bhutto and you go to Oxford University you are above 95% of white British people in the class system.

But if you are from more humble roots and you are of Asian origin and appear affiliated with that background - through dress or language - you are viewed as less British than if you are of West Indian origin.

There is a really complex interface here between race, language and culture. One of the reasons why I'm one of the few educated British people who voted for Brexit is because I viewed it as deeply racist to accept Freedom Of Movement for European Union citizens (99% of those who arrived were white) which acted to at the same time minimize Commonwealth immigration.

[MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] talked about his experiences when he was excluded as an Under-13 cricketer. It always appalls me that someone like him may have a dual cultural background, but is British in every way, steeped in every cultural influence from Paul Daniels to Duran Duran, whereas Polish immigrants "look" white but have grown up in a different culture in their own country, which they largely remain immersed in after they move to the UK.

If you stopped a dozen Polish or Romanian immigrants in the street and interviewed them about British culture, cuisine, anything, they would clearly be seen to be less "British" than British Pakistanis. But still colour-based prejudice trumps that.

Well what made it worse was that the Chairman's grandson was picked. He was a so-called leg-spinner who either bowled half-trackers or full tosses and batted at number 11.

We talk about Moeen Ali and Adil Rashid as role-models for the Asian community in the UK and examples to young Asian cricketers, but they are a rarity. Most Asian cricketers will not make it to the highest level, for a number of reasons, one of which is definitely racism at local club level, and County level.

 

[Zaz]

Asian background players are over represented on the local club scene and underrepresented on the county and intnl level for england

Make of that what you will

 

[MenInG]

Former West Indies fast bowler Tino Best recalled the time he was subjected to racism while he was playing club cricket in England. Best revealed the extent of racism was such that it wasn’t just confined to players, but even umpires, who the fast bowler said, treated him and others indifferently.

“I used to be like ‘Are you serious?’ and they were like, ‘Do you want to get in a fight? Then leave.’ So that is one of the reasons why I never really liked to play club cricket in England because of the umpires and other teams,” said Tino during a conversation with Dr Yash Kashikar on his Instagram Live show Say Yash To Sports.

After Darren Sammy and Chris Gayle raised their voices against racism in cricket, former India opener Aakash Chopra disclosed his encounter, revealing he was called **** while playing league cricket in England. Best, who had County stints with Yorkshire in 2010 and later with Hampshire in 2016, claimed racism is deep-rooted in England and that he would prefer playing cricket anywhere but the United Kingdom.

“I would go and play club cricket anywhere in the world but not in England. It’s a very racial place. So what Darren (Sammy) and Chris (Gayle) are saying is absolutely true,” Best said. “I feel whenever anyone faces racism, call it out, speak about it and don’t fear about the consequences.”

https://m.hindustantimes.com/cricke...with-racism/story-7LO9HUYuSprkndeC42oKTO.html

 

[therealAB]

Who remembers Stuart Broad throwing the ball at Zulqarnain Haider for no reason?

I hope he is never allowed to forget this action and has to answer forever

is that anger, frustration or racism. Lots of fast bowlers have thrown balls at the batsmen

 

[MenInG]

Former England player and coach Mark Ramprakash thinks "it is legitimate" to ask why there are not more BAME coaches working in the county game.

The worldwide Black Lives Matter protests sparked by the death of George Floyd while in police custody in the USA, have led to questions being asked about BAME representation in sporting positions of power.

Ramprakash, who played 52 Tests for England and subsequently had a spell as batting coach, says cricket cannot turn a blind eye to the issue.

"I was lucky enough to have a 25-year playing career and now I have been coaching for seven years," he said.

"I think in all that time, I can only think of two non-white county coaches in (current West Indies coach) Phil Simmons and Dav Whatmore - I might have left someone out but that's an awfully long time.

"So I think it is legitimate to ask why is that the case and I would love to see more opportunities given to people from the BAME communities.

"When you think about cricket, you think about England, Australia, South Africa but you also think about India, West Indies, Pakistan, Sri Lanka.

"There's an awful lot of players playing at the highest level, why aren't we seeing more coaches, head coaches, directors of cricket? It's not because the talent is not there.

"I wouldn't advocate someone get that position based purely on their race or the colour of their skin.

"But I think there are many candidates out there who would be dedicated and who would have a hard-work ethic and a good knowledge of the game and therefore deserve an opportunity."

Ramprakash pointed out that the root of the problem may lie in the fact that cricket, in common with many other sports, suffers from a lack of BAME people in administrative roles at the upper echelon of the sport.

He said: "Within cricket, football, athletics you can think of so many great players (from the BAME community) but so few in positions of authority.

"You would have to say that would affect the opportunities of further BAME community people coming through."

Ramprakash's former county Surrey this week named Vikram Solanki - a former England international who was born in India - as their head coach.

Ramprakash welcomed the hiring, saying: "I think very highly of Vikram as do many, many people.

https://www.skysports.com/cricket/n...bame-coaching-candidates-who-deserve-a-chance

 

[Rana]

is that anger, frustration or racism. Lots of fast bowlers have thrown balls at the batsmen

You know it’s racism if you know English cricket.

 

[Rana]

Former England player and coach Mark Ramprakash thinks "it is legitimate" to ask why there are not more BAME coaches working in the county game.

The worldwide Black Lives Matter protests sparked by the death of George Floyd while in police custody in the USA, have led to questions being asked about BAME representation in sporting positions of power.

Ramprakash, who played 52 Tests for England and subsequently had a spell as batting coach, says cricket cannot turn a blind eye to the issue.

"I was lucky enough to have a 25-year playing career and now I have been coaching for seven years," he said.

"I think in all that time, I can only think of two non-white county coaches in (current West Indies coach) Phil Simmons and Dav Whatmore - I might have left someone out but that's an awfully long time.

"So I think it is legitimate to ask why is that the case and I would love to see more opportunities given to people from the BAME communities.

"When you think about cricket, you think about England, Australia, South Africa but you also think about India, West Indies, Pakistan, Sri Lanka.

"There's an awful lot of players playing at the highest level, why aren't we seeing more coaches, head coaches, directors of cricket? It's not because the talent is not there.

"I wouldn't advocate someone get that position based purely on their race or the colour of their skin.

"But I think there are many candidates out there who would be dedicated and who would have a hard-work ethic and a good knowledge of the game and therefore deserve an opportunity."

Ramprakash pointed out that the root of the problem may lie in the fact that cricket, in common with many other sports, suffers from a lack of BAME people in administrative roles at the upper echelon of the sport.

He said: "Within cricket, football, athletics you can think of so many great players (from the BAME community) but so few in positions of authority.

"You would have to say that would affect the opportunities of further BAME community people coming through."

Ramprakash's former county Surrey this week named Vikram Solanki - a former England international who was born in India - as their head coach.

Ramprakash welcomed the hiring, saying: "I think very highly of Vikram as do many, many people.

https://www.skysports.com/cricket/n...bame-coaching-candidates-who-deserve-a-chance

It’s not just about the lack of BAME coaches in county cricket. But also private schools also. They have an armies of white cricket coaches only. Ex pros from Australia and New Zealand land jobs in cricket playing schools so easily.

 

[Saj]

Asian background players are over represented on the local club scene and underrepresented on the county and intnl level for england

Make of that what you will

It's doubly hard for Asian lads to make it to county cricket.

I recall an Asian lad I got to know about 5 or 6 years ago playing in the Lancashire League. A very good spinner, excellent opening batsman who was playing in the 1st XI at age 15.

Lancashire were looking at him and he played for their juniors and did well.

Eventually what happened was he was dropped from the 1st XI and then the 2nd XI despite doing very well.

He signed for another team and had similar problems there.

Eventually he gave up cricket and now works in a factory.

 

[therealAB]

You know it’s racism if you know English cricket.

Can't be too quick to call it racism. Was Johnson throwing a ball at Kohli in 14/15 racism

 

[Rana]

Can't be too quick to call it racism. Was Johnson throwing a ball at Kohli in 14/15 racism

Look I don’t want to go into unnecessary detail here.

Every Asian who has played club cricket in England especially at clubs with a predominantly white demographic know how things are. Stuart Broad knows it as well, we all know it.

 

[Mamoon]

When an average player of Pakistani descent like Moeen plays 60 Tests and rules are changed to fast-track a black man into the team, can you really blame racism?

I mean I won’t get into what goes on at club level and junior cricket because other people here have first-hand experience, but from where I see, Asian players have had more than decent representation in the English national team but most of them proved to be failures because of their own shortcomings.

It is no one’s fault that players like Ramprakash and Bopara didn’t have the guts to excel in international cricket while someone like Panesar turned to be an idiot.

Haseeb Hameed had English cricket at his feet and was the heir to Cook but he woke up one day and forgot how to bat.

Moeen’s keeps regressing at an age where he should be at his peak.

Sajid Mahmood was another failure. So was Kabir Ali.

Zafar Ansari lost interest in the game.

Samit Patel, Solanki, Owais Shah, Ajmal Shahzad etc. all failed to deliver.

Time will tell if Saqib Mahmood will be lost into oblivion or if he will actually prove to be a rare success story.

Perhaps someone like Varun Chopra can deen himself unlikely not to have won an international cap, and there was this Pakistani WK (forgot the name) who looked good at a time when England were struggling with keepers.

Nevertheless, it might be true that the level of representation of Asian cricketers in the national team might not be proportionate to their population, but you have to ask if they are actually good enough and who are the players are being wrongly ignored simply because of their skin.

Racism exists and I am sure it does in English cricket but at times it becomes a convenient excuse for failures. If a white player is dropped it is because he isn’t good enough but if an Asian is dropped, it is because of racism.

The presence of racism does not justify the misuse of the racism card, and I feel it seems to happen regularly in English cricket.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

When an average player of Pakistani descent like Moeen plays 60 Tests and rules are changed to fast-track a black man into the team, can you really blame racism?

I mean I won’t get into what goes on at club level and junior cricket because other people here have first-hand experience, but from where I see, Asian players have had more than decent representation in the English national team but most of them proved to be failures because of their own shortcomings.

It is no one’s fault that players like Ramprakash and Bopara didn’t have the guts to excel in international cricket while someone like Panesar turned to be an idiot.

Haseeb Hameed had English cricket at his feet and was the heir to Cook but he woke up one day and forgot how to bat.

Moeen’s keeps regressing at an age where he should be at his peak.

Sajid Mahmood was another failure. So was Kabir Ali.

Zafar Ansari lost interest in the game.

Samit Patel, Solanki, Owais Shah, Ajmal Shahzad etc. all failed to deliver.

Time will tell if Saqib Mahmood will be lost into oblivion or if he will actually prove to be a rare success story.

Perhaps someone like Varun Chopra can deen himself unlikely not to have won an international cap, and there was this Pakistani WK (forgot the name) who looked good at a time when England were struggling with keepers.

Nevertheless, it might be true that the level of representation of Asian cricketers in the national team might not be proportionate to their population, but you have to ask if they are actually good enough and who are the players are being wrongly ignored simply because of their skin.

Racism exists and I am sure it does in English cricket but at times it becomes a convenient excuse for failures. If a white player is dropped it is because he isn’t good enough but if an Asian is dropped, it is because of racism.

The presence of racism does not justify the misuse of the racism card, and I feel it seems to happen regularly in English cricket.

It's utter nonsense. Most of the British Asian cricketers were average or below average. Monty was talented but he threw it away and he was competing with GOAT finger spinner Swann who was a much better basman as well. Haseeb was actually given a chance very early. But he flopped in county and consistent performers in domestic took his spot. Moeen is a mental midget who was replaced by Plunkett and that made a massive difference to that English lineup in the World Cup.

Adil Rashid is the best LOI spinner England have and he's never been replaced and was supported even through persistent shoulder trouble. He's the only real success story and this shows that you can make it there s long as you're the best.

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

It's utter nonsense. Most of the British Asian cricketers were average or below average. Monty was talented but he threw it away and he was competing with GOAT finger spinner Swann who was a much better basman as well. Haseeb was actually given a chance very early. But he flopped in county and consistent performers in domestic took his spot. Moeen is a mental midget who was replaced by Plunkett and that made a massive difference to that English lineup in the World Cup.

Adil Rashid is the best LOI spinner England have and he's never been replaced and was supported even through persistent shoulder trouble. He's the only real success story and this shows that you can make it there s long as you're the best.

Nope, sorry.

You're argument doesn't stand.

Only a few youngsters are able to get through from club level to county level, specifically because of bigotry. [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] and [MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION] have provided their own anecdotal evidence and whilst I can't talk for the cricket sphere (I don't play myself), I myself have seen it clearly within the professional workspace in the UK.

Here's a simpler analogy. If let's say 50-70 talented asian kids get taken into under age sides every year (across 18 counties, across all lower age groups), there's a chance that you'll have atleast get 1-5 asian england prospects and perhaps 1 consistent performer every year or every two years.

Why does this not happen? Because not enough are given an opportunity at the youth level and those that come through have to do more just to justify their place. The attitude always seems to be that they are somehow taking the place of a white player. So they have to work twice as hard to get half as far.

So, if you have a lower representative population of asian cricketers, you'll have a lower sample of success. And the lower the population, the lesser the chances of a real superstar to emerge.

Also, consistent with his track record, [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] has made another hilarious claim. He feels that at least asians play the 'race card' for their failures. Guess who uses that tired trope repeatedly. Racists, people stuck in their ways and those afraid for there to be a truly meritocracy, because God forbid how their public school game will look with more than 3-4 non-whites in the team.

If you don't know the individual personal circumstances of why asian people fail in english cricket, you need to save your lazy rhetoric. It's because of these smartass cynical takes, that the levers of bigotry continue to exist and flourish.

 

[Rana]

Nope, sorry.

You're argument doesn't stand.

Only a few youngsters are able to get through from club level to county level, specifically because of bigotry. [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] and [MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION] have provided their own anecdotal evidence and whilst I can't talk for the cricket sphere (I don't play myself), I myself have seen it clearly within the professional workspace in the UK.

Here's a simpler analogy. If let's say 50-70 talented asian kids get taken into under age sides every year (across 18 counties, across all lower age groups), there's a chance that you'll have atleast get 1-5 asian england prospects and perhaps 1 consistent performer every year or every two years.

Why does this not happen? Because not enough are given an opportunity at the youth level and those that come through have to do more just to justify their place. The attitude always seems to be that they are somehow taking the place of a white player. So they have to work twice as hard to get half as far.

So, if you have a lower representative population of asian cricketers, you'll have a lower sample of success. And the lower the population, the lesser the chances of a real superstar to emerge.

Also, consistent with his track record, [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] has made another hilarious claim. He feels that at least asians play the 'race card' for their failures. Guess who uses that tired trope repeatedly. Racists, people stuck in their ways and those afraid for there to be a truly meritocracy, because God forbid how their public school game will look with more than 3-4 non-whites in the team.

If you don't know the individual personal circumstances of why asian people fail in english cricket, you need to save your lazy rhetoric. It's because of these smartass cynical takes, that the levers of bigotry continue to exist and flourish.

These guys have provided the example of a few names (out of thousands) who have managed to break through and play extensively at FC level, and a very few who played enough games for England at representative level.

Whilst [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] has referred to the THOUSANDS of talented Asian cricketers at grassroots/school level who were lost because of extremely rigid selection processes in which Racism is clearly apparent. Asian kids have a very narrow margin to be selected, and even if they do make it to the next stage, they are consistently judged through that narrow margin. There is the general feeling that the white cricketer will grow and develop to become stronger and better with time, hence he is afforded so much more time. They would feel that they are less under pressure as compared to the Asian kid. It’s as if the Asian kid has to be world class for his age to survive, or he simply won’t survive.

It’s very easy to claim that there is fairness and transparency from what you see on TV or what you read through newspapers about County/National side. What you will not read or see is the struggle, politics that are invisible to the public eye at grassroots and school level.

 

[Mamoon]

I would compare racism to sexual harassment. Do racism and sexual harassment exist? Certainly yes

Is there tremendous room for misuse as well? Sadly, that is true as well.

The issue with making sweeping statements is that whenever an Asian cricketer will not make his way through the ranks in English cricket, he will blame it on racism.

Apart from 1-2 success stories like Nasser Hussain, nearly every English Asian cricketer that has had his shot in international cricket has blown it with flying colors, and you cannot blame their failures on racism.

It is not possible to have a 100% racist free society and minorities will have to fight harder to find their way. There is no point in demonizing English cricket because it is probably even harder for minorities in countries like Pakistan which is one of the worst in the world when it comes to treatment of minorities.

If there is a highly talented Ahmadi cricketer in Pakistan, he would get snubbed by many clubs and domestic teams because of the stigma associated with his faith.

South Asian cricketers in England need to raise their game and once they get their shot in international cricket, they need to take it with both hands instead of flopping and blaming it on racism.

Again - do white kids get preference over Asians or Caribbeans in school/junior cricket? Probably yes, but it happens everywhere so there is no point in singling English cricket.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=143541]KingOfPakBreakfast[/MENTION]

The issue is that if an Asian cricketer is not selected because he did not deserve to be selected, he will blame racism.

That is why there is great potential for misuse of the racism card. We have seen this in the national team as well.

When Moeen has been rightfully dropped because of poor form, his fans have accused ECB of scapegoating him because he is not white, even though he has time and time again proved himself to be a liability in the last few years.

Heck, getting him out of the playing XI was a major reason why England won the World Cup.

As I said, racism exists but it has also been misused and exploited around the world by people who have not been able to succeed due to their own shortcomings. There is no doubt that it happens in English cricket as well.

 

[Rana]

[MENTION=143541]KingOfPakBreakfast[/MENTION]

The issue is that if an Asian cricketer is not selected because he did not deserve to be selected, he will blame racism.

That is why there is great potential for misuse of the racism card. We have seen this in the national team as well.

When Moeen has been rightfully dropped because of poor form, his fans have accused ECB of scapegoating him because he is not white, even though he has time and time again proved himself to be a liability in the last few years.

Heck, getting him out of the playing XI was a major reason why England won the World Cup.

As I said, racism exists but it has also been misused and exploited around the world by people who have not been able to succeed due to their own shortcomings. There is no doubt that it happens in English cricket as well.

So now you are accusing most Asian kids and their coaches for crying racism for no reason? They have no right to cry racism because they are probably all mediocre in comparison to white, public school kids with zero passion for the game whilst you are there sitting in Peshawar?

 

[Rana]

This is the problem here. It won’t change.

 

[Nado_]

[MENTION=143541]KingOfPakBreakfast[/MENTION]

The issue is that if an Asian cricketer is not selected because he did not deserve to be selected, he will blame racism.

That is why there is great potential for misuse of the racism card. We have seen this in the national team as well.

When Moeen has been rightfully dropped because of poor form, his fans have accused ECB of scapegoating him because he is not white, even though he has time and time again proved himself to be a liability in the last few years.

Heck, getting him out of the playing XI was a major reason why England won the World Cup.

As I said, racism exists but it has also been misused and exploited around the world by people who have not been able to succeed due to their own shortcomings. There is no doubt that it happens in English cricket as well.

I see what your saying but I think the valid argument which others are saying is that English cricket at the grass root level (I.e club cricket and youth county cricket) does appear to be biased toward Middle class and above white British. I don’t think the ECB and especially the English national team is racist but I think the system to allow players to reach to the higher levels of cricket I.e entry to county cricket and premier club teams definitely have this bias.

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

[MENTION=143541]KingOfPakBreakfast[/MENTION]

The issue is that if an Asian cricketer is not selected because he did not deserve to be selected, he will blame racism.

That is why there is great potential for misuse of the racism card. We have seen this in the national team as well.

When Moeen has been rightfully dropped because of poor form, his fans have accused ECB of scapegoating him because he is not white, even though he has time and time again proved himself to be a liability in the last few years.

Heck, getting him out of the playing XI was a major reason why England won the World Cup.

As I said, racism exists but it has also been misused and exploited around the world by people who have not been able to succeed due to their own shortcomings. There is no doubt that it happens in English cricket as well.

[MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION] and others have addressed some of your points, so I won't repeat what they posted.

However, one of the most tired little tricks is this trope of belly gazing what-aboutism that you presented as an argument. Does Pakistani society have bigotry issues? Yes, and through education, and (ironically for some) actual religious observance, hopefully those will go away in time InshAllah.

However, the English system is particularly terrible. Within the middle classes, there is still this romantic idea about Britain's place in the world, as if it was the colonial times. Thus, for a certain demographic (white public school educated folk), people of immigrant stock are at best tolerated rather than fully accepted.

The problem with using the race card trope is that casual and systemic racism never truly gets addressed in a lasting way.

If the idea that 'playing the race card' exists, then people who genuinely experience bigotry (the large majority are true victims) can never get justice, because you paint everybody with the same brush, based on a few who do 'play the race card'.

Minorities have glass ceilings in general and on the odd occasion some white dude 'overdoes' the racism, a George Flloyd dies, gasping for air.

Regarding your point about international players, It's the reason why when a Moeen Ali makes it into the team, the bigoted ***** will say, "Oh he's included because of political correctness". When he does perform, it's usually another yo gets the credit because Moeen isn't flashy enough (which for others is Charisma, but from him it's arrogance. See the treatment of Raheem Sterling by the British medis as an example).

When he fails to perform, it's "Oh he's taking the place of another player"(usually a white bits and pieces county spinner who then does not go on to set the world alight).

Having to constantly perform under that pressure must do a number on anybody's mental health. But hey, he must be playing the 'race card'

 

[FreePalestine]

Yep, sad indeed.

From our side, we should have made an example out of Sarfraz. Sadly, he got away with it, and now laughs at that incident as if it was a joke.

Nobody should get away from it now in PK cricket, if it happens again.

This is a silly comment when thinking about racism in cricket. It was a minor incident and doesn’t deserve merit.

Actually what should be acknowledged and discussed is what happens when a player from a minority has the potential to play for the country. How are they treated by the system? What happens when they come to the top? How does the media deal with them? Do they get as many chances as players from the majority ethnic group?

Case Studies would be - Moeen Ali, Usman Khawaja, Adil Rashid, Monty Panesar, Devon Malcolm, Jofra Archer.

Please don’t tell me ‘oh these guys have played a lot for the country’. They played because they were the right players for the role. But what happens when one of these players fail, or aren’t perfect little angels? Let’s see...

1. Adil Rashid: Villified by English media AND by his own county, Yorkshire, as someone not committed to cricket. Compare to Alex Hales, who also decided to limit himself to white ball cricket just before Adil. No one had any issues. Clear example of double standards
2. Moeen Ali: Every time he failed, he would be plastered all over the sports pages. He is a top order batsman who never got a proper chance to establish himself with the bat. English cricket ruined Moeen Ali the batsman. Look at the performances he delivers in domestic cricket, especially LOI’s. Actually all this pressure put on him for no reason took its toll, and eventually he wasn’t even ENJOYING playing the game he loves.
3. Monty Panesar: Widely ridiculed, villified, dropped from his county side. He was the best spinner in the country for a while.
4. Khawaja: One of their best batsmen when Smith and Warner were away, good performer in the world cup. Dropped soon after at the age of 33! Of course, some will say this is too old and they are looking forward to the next world cup. OK... so what about Finch and Warner, who are both also 33? Just to be clear, I don’t believe Finch and Warner should be dropped, I believe the top 6 batsmen should be picked! For some reason a 33 year old Australian of Pakistani descent is like a 37 year old white Australian here.
5. Jofra Archer, absolutely smashes it in a tough series against the world’s best batsman. In the papers, they say he is not trying hard enough, implying that he is lazy! A common stereotype for black people here.

So in this context, talking about Sarfaraz calling someone ‘kala’ in a clearly non-offensive joke (please don’t start commenting about this and ignoring all the other important information I have put above) completely misses the point. If you had talked about Mohammad Yousuf, or Danish Kaneria, I would have understood. We are talking about structural racism here, not what it is pc or not pc to say.

 

[Hawkeye]

This is a silly comment when thinking about racism in cricket. It was a minor incident and doesn’t deserve merit.

Actually what should be acknowledged and discussed is what happens when a player from a minority has the potential to play for the country. How are they treated by the system? What happens when they come to the top? How does the media deal with them? Do they get as many chances as players from the majority ethnic group?

Case Studies would be - Moeen Ali, Usman Khawaja, Adil Rashid, Monty Panesar, Devon Malcolm, Jofra Archer.

Please don’t tell me ‘oh these guys have played a lot for the country’. They played because they were the right players for the role. But what happens when one of these players fail, or aren’t perfect little angels? Let’s see...

1. Adil Rashid: Villified by English media AND by his own county, Yorkshire, as someone not committed to cricket. Compare to Alex Hales, who also decided to limit himself to white ball cricket just before Adil. No one had any issues. Clear example of double standards
2. Moeen Ali: Every time he failed, he would be plastered all over the sports pages. He is a top order batsman who never got a proper chance to establish himself with the bat. English cricket ruined Moeen Ali the batsman. Look at the performances he delivers in domestic cricket, especially LOI’s. Actually all this pressure put on him for no reason took its toll, and eventually he wasn’t even ENJOYING playing the game he loves.
3. Monty Panesar: Widely ridiculed, villified, dropped from his county side. He was the best spinner in the country for a while.
4. Khawaja: One of their best batsmen when Smith and Warner were away, good performer in the world cup. Dropped soon after at the age of 33! Of course, some will say this is too old and they are looking forward to the next world cup. OK... so what about Finch and Warner, who are both also 33? Just to be clear, I don’t believe Finch and Warner should be dropped, I believe the top 6 batsmen should be picked! For some reason a 33 year old Australian of Pakistani descent is like a 37 year old white Australian here.
5. Jofra Archer, absolutely smashes it in a tough series against the world’s best batsman. In the papers, they say he is not trying hard enough, implying that he is lazy! A common stereotype for black people here.

So in this context, talking about Sarfaraz calling someone ‘kala’ in a clearly non-offensive joke (please don’t start commenting about this and ignoring all the other important information I have put above) completely misses the point. If you had talked about Mohammad Yousuf, or Danish Kaneria, I would have understood. We are talking about structural racism here, not what it is pc or not pc to say.

You trying to downplay that incident is shameful.

Because, you fail to understand and accept, THAT TOO is a structural and systematic racism problem here in PAK.

You think it's an isolated incident that Sarfraz made fun of his skin color and called him 'abay kaa***'? Where do you think it comes from?

It has extremely strong roots in our society, look at that thread, everyone defending Sarfraz and saying it is common in the society. Rather than condemning it, we accept and allow black skin to be made fun of and humiliated.

 

[HitWicket]

-

Rashid was primarily vilified at Yorkshire because he decided he didn't want to play FC cricket at Yorkshire but still wanted England to consider him for the test squad, pretty different to Hales's situation. Added to that lets not forget his decision to make himself unavailable for Yorkshire's title deciding final county championship game in 2016 that kick started his up and down relationship with Yorkshire.

Moeen got chances at the top of the order and was fairly average there. He just wasn't one of the best batsmen in the country.

Monty was rarely the best spinner in the country for any kind of extended period of time. I'm not sure which of his county departures you're referring to but they were pretty much all justified.

 

[Saj]

Also Craig Overton calling a British Pakistani player a P@ki who should go back to his country. This cannot be forgotten either!

That was disgraceful.

The Asian cricketer was Ashar Zaidi.

I interviewed Zaidi for the Telegraph regarding this and he was understandably fuming.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Nope, sorry.

You're argument doesn't stand.

Only a few youngsters are able to get through from club level to county level, specifically because of bigotry. [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] and [MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION] have provided their own anecdotal evidence and whilst I can't talk for the cricket sphere (I don't play myself), I myself have seen it clearly within the professional workspace in the UK.

Here's a simpler analogy. If let's say 50-70 talented asian kids get taken into under age sides every year (across 18 counties, across all lower age groups), there's a chance that you'll have atleast get 1-5 asian england prospects and perhaps 1 consistent performer every year or every two years.

Why does this not happen? Because not enough are given an opportunity at the youth level and those that come through have to do more just to justify their place. The attitude always seems to be that they are somehow taking the place of a white player. So they have to work twice as hard to get half as far.

So, if you have a lower representative population of asian cricketers, you'll have a lower sample of success. And the lower the population, the lesser the chances of a real superstar to emerge.

Also, consistent with his track record, [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] has made another hilarious claim. He feels that at least asians play the 'race card' for their failures. Guess who uses that tired trope repeatedly. Racists, people stuck in their ways and those afraid for there to be a truly meritocracy, because God forbid how their public school game will look with more than 3-4 non-whites in the team.

If you don't know the individual personal circumstances of why asian people fail in english cricket, you need to save your lazy rhetoric. It's because of these smartass cynical takes, that the levers of bigotry continue to exist and flourish.

If an Asian player had to be twice as good to even be selected for England, they should do as well at international level as well. How is it they have, barring the odd exception, been so average at international cricket despite being twice as good as the white players. Surely they should outperform their whiye compatriots while playing for England? With the exception of Rashid (who is the best leg spinner regardless of colour) every other Asian cricketer was either just about as good as a white alternative or in some cases inferior.

 

[FreePalestine]

You trying to downplay that incident is shameful.

Because, you fail to understand and accept, THAT TOO is a structural and systematic racism problem here in PAK.

You think it's an isolated incident that Sarfraz made fun of his skin color and called him 'abay kaa***'? Where do you think it comes from?

It has extremely strong roots in our society, look at that thread, everyone defending Sarfraz and saying it is common in the society. Rather than condemning it, we accept and allow black skin to be made fun of and humiliated.

Of course it is an issue - everywhere in the world there is discrimination. But Sarfraz calling a person kaa** is not the same as a person being called the equivalent in the united states, or racism against non-white people in England. That is because Pakistan does not have a history of oppressing African people for centuries. The fact that these countries do have that history means that derogatory words against black people come loaded with all that historical sense of racial superiority. Do you think Sarfraz was trying to assert his racial superiority by calling him what he called him? It is a completely different context. Just to say, ‘oh you have to say the right word for black people’ will change absolutely nothing in the very real issues Pakistan has with its prejudices and have zero consequences.

Structural racism is, in fact, not just about whether you say bad words or not, but whether you are / are not given an equal opportunity when you display talent because of your ethnicity or race; whether you are criticized using stereotypes and over pressured and under greater scrutiny because of your race.

I feel absolutely no shame for what I have said.

Btw - racism against african people is also rife in Pakistani communities, but it is born of ignorance, due to a lack of exposure, rather than hatred and presumed racial superiority, since we never imported African people as slaves into our country.

 

[FreePalestine]

Rashid was primarily vilified at Yorkshire because he decided he didn't want to play FC cricket at Yorkshire but still wanted England to consider him for the test squad, pretty different to Hales's situation. Added to that lets not forget his decision to make himself unavailable for Yorkshire's title deciding final county championship game in 2016 that kick started his up and down relationship with Yorkshire.

Moeen got chances at the top of the order and was fairly average there. He just wasn't one of the best batsmen in the country.

Monty was rarely the best spinner in the country for any kind of extended period of time. I'm not sure which of his county departures you're referring to but they were pretty much all justified.

Nope, you are wrong. Alex Hales quit first class cricket just the same as Rashid. Rashid was villified by the press for exactly the same action. It was after that, that Ed Smith or whoever was selector, asked Rashid to play test cricket because they were going on a tour to a subcontinental country. Rashid never ‘asked to be considered for selection’. They asked him to play. He had said he was focussing on ODI cricket just like Alex Hales and that is why he quit first class cricket.

Actually your lack of knowledge of this is an example of how the media focussed on certain parts of the story to create a false narrative that has been largely swallowed.

 

[FreePalestine]

Also what most people don’t talk about is Rashid’s shoulder problems, which have often been ignored in discussions of why he didn’t play certain games or wanted to focus on ODi cricket.

 

[Rana]

Nope, you are wrong. Alex Hales quit first class cricket just the same as Rashid. Rashid was villified by the press for exactly the same action. It was after that, that Ed Smith or whoever was selector, asked Rashid to play test cricket because they were going on a tour to a subcontinental country. Rashid never ‘asked to be considered for selection’. They asked him to play. He had said he was focussing on ODI cricket just like Alex Hales and that is why he quit first class cricket.

Actually your lack of knowledge of this is an example of how the media focussed on certain parts of the story to create a false narrative that has been largely swallowed.

Exactly. Yorkshire Backlashed against Adil because he didn’t refuse the England selection offer as he made it clear that he doesn’t want to play domestic red ball cricket.

 

[HitWicket]

Nope, you are wrong. Alex Hales quit first class cricket just the same as Rashid. Rashid was villified by the press for exactly the same action. It was after that, that Ed Smith or whoever was selector, asked Rashid to play test cricket because they were going on a tour to a subcontinental country. Rashid never ‘asked to be considered for selection’. They asked him to play. He had said he was focussing on ODI cricket just like Alex Hales and that is why he quit first class cricket.

Actually your lack of knowledge of this is an example of how the media focussed on certain parts of the story to create a false narrative that has been largely swallowed.

He explicitly said his heart wasn't into playing FC cricket for Yorkshire but that he'd also be open to playing test cricket for England. In the weeks before his recall to the test squad he also rejected Yorkshire's request/offer for him to play in the rose's game.

 

[Mamoon]

If an Asian player had to be twice as good to even be selected for England, they should do as well at international level as well. How is it they have, barring the odd exception, been so average at international cricket despite being twice as good as the white players. Surely they should outperform their whiye compatriots while playing for England? With the exception of Rashid (who is the best leg spinner regardless of colour) every other Asian cricketer was either just about as good as a white alternative or in some cases inferior.

There is no need of making logical sense when you can make sweeping statements and resort to sensationalism.

Just stand in line and agree with everyone else that if it wasn’t for racism, the south Asian community would have produced multiple ATGs for English cricket.

 

[Buffet]

If an Asian player had to be twice as good to even be selected for England, they should do as well at international level as well. How is it they have, barring the odd exception, been so average at international cricket despite being twice as good as the white players. Surely they should outperform their whiye compatriots while playing for England? With the exception of Rashid (who is the best leg spinner regardless of colour) every other Asian cricketer was either just about as good as a white alternative or in some cases inferior.

Being twice good may be exageration, but racism can exist at lower level itself where it can be frustrating and then you give up. I don't know how much it exist in UK, but a large number of talented kids may simply drop out due to bias in early stage and then you miss out on some very good talent. It's a possibility. Things are not always binary.

 

[Rana]

Being twice good may be exageration, but racism can exist at lower level itself where it can be frustrating and then you give up. I don't know how much it exist in UK, but a large number of talented kids may simply drop out due to bias in early stage and then you miss out on some very good talent. It's a possibility. Things are not always binary.

This is the point every WHO LIVES IN ENGLAND AND KNOWS THE SYSTEM are making. Yet some clearly know better in their own little world

 

[Nado_]

This is the point every WHO LIVES IN ENGLAND AND KNOWS THE SYSTEM are making. Yet some clearly know better in their own little world

Couldn’t have said it better bro. Some people always got to be blind and then exaggerate a point to fit their own perfect world lol

 

[Saj]

Of course there was this too:

Cricket Australia has announced an investigation after England all-rounder Moeen Ali claimed he was called “Osama” by an Australian opponent during his Ashes debut in 2015.

 

[Nado_]

Of course there was this too:

Cricket Australia has announced an investigation after England all-rounder Moeen Ali claimed he was called “Osama” by an Australian opponent during his Ashes debut in 2015.

The arrogance of these guys to say such a full on racist insult in an international match. And before all any of you start going on about Sarfraz comments, yes they were wrong and there’s no excuse however he did not say them words with ill intent toward his opponent and did not do so with viciousness. However what Moeen Ali has claimed is totally different and shows racist arrogance.

 

[Rana]

Let’s not forget Sohail Tanvir and his Hindu mentality comments. That was embarrassing!

 

[FreePalestine]

He explicitly said his heart wasn't into playing FC cricket for Yorkshire but that he'd also be open to playing test cricket for England. In the weeks before his recall to the test squad he also rejected Yorkshire's request/offer for him to play in the rose's game.

This is what happened: Rashid had really poor international tours where he was milked everywhere, especially against Asian teams. England started fancying Mason Crane. Rashid has chronic shoulder problems and has had lots of success in ODI cricket. He made a decision, backed by the England management at the time, to focus where he is successful. Alex Hales did the same thing.

Then, there was a change in management. Ed Smith wanted him. Talked to Yorkshire about it the whole way through. Got unanimous approval from Root, other selectors, coach. They asked Rashid to play.

Yorkshire publicly went against Rashid, made it into a national issue. FYI - This is not a rare thing for South Asian cricketers. Patel was also publicly chastised for his weight. Hameed, failing at Lancashire, had public statements being made by the head honcho there, saying this is his last chance. Is this supposed to be encouragement?

Only thing you can criticize is his not playing a rose bowl game. I don’t know the ins and outs of what happened, and don’t pretend to. Neither do I jump to conclusions as the media tells me to and blame the player. Fact of the matter is he didn’t have a first class contract and was still focussing on white ball cricket as far as he was concerned. It looks like the management there have had it in for him for a while, with the normal indicators of stereotyping and bias being implied: lazy, uncommitted, disloyal... irony is that Rashid would never want to leave Yorkshire. It is his home. He is loyal.

Even Ed Smith mentioned that there is a bad relationship between the head guy at Yorkshire, Gale, and Rashid though refused to go into details.

 

[FreePalestine]

He explicitly said his heart wasn't into playing FC cricket for Yorkshire but that he'd also be open to playing test cricket for England. In the weeks before his recall to the test squad he also rejected Yorkshire's request/offer for him to play in the rose's game.

And don’t forget, he was criticized before the rose bowl match and the selection fiasco (not his fault at all) for quitting fc cricket, whereas Alex Hales was not.

 

[HitWicket]

This is what happened: Rashid had really poor international tours where he was milked everywhere, especially against Asian teams. England started fancying Mason Crane. Rashid has chronic shoulder problems and has had lots of success in ODI cricket. He made a decision, backed by the England management at the time, to focus where he is successful. Alex Hales did the same thing.

Then, there was a change in management. Ed Smith wanted him. Talked to Yorkshire about it the whole way through. Got unanimous approval from Root, other selectors, coach. They asked Rashid to play.

Yorkshire publicly went against Rashid, made it into a national issue. FYI - This is not a rare thing for South Asian cricketers. Patel was also publicly chastised for his weight. Hameed, failing at Lancashire, had public statements being made by the head honcho there, saying this is his last chance. Is this supposed to be encouragement?

Only thing you can criticize is his not playing a rose bowl game. I don’t know the ins and outs of what happened, and don’t pretend to. Neither do I jump to conclusions as the media tells me to and blame the player. Fact of the matter is he didn’t have a first class contract and was still focussing on white ball cricket as far as he was concerned. It looks like the management there have had it in for him for a while, with the normal indicators of stereotyping and bias being implied: lazy, uncommitted, disloyal... irony is that Rashid would never want to leave Yorkshire. It is his home. He is loyal.

Even Ed Smith mentioned that there is a bad relationship between the head guy at Yorkshire, Gale, and Rashid though refused to go into details.

Yorkshire never made public statements against Rashid after his call outside of stating they were surprised given his decision not to play first class cricket, contradictory to what you say they actually said they were disappointed about the lack of communication between the ECB and the club over the issue.

Of course many at Yorkshire would be irritated with him and had pretty fair reason to be so. He'd publicly stated his heart wasn't there to play FC cricket for Yorkshire but also said he was open to playing FC cricket for England in addition to refusing to play the title deciding county championship game at the end of the 2016 season. At a time when he was being touted to likely be in the squad by the papers (and presumably been told his call up was coming) he then refused to play the FC rose's games for Yorkshire. I'd imagine a lot of frustration was also aimed at the selectors. Someone not playing FC cricket shouldn't be considered for selection for the test team, especially when they know their selection is likely and are still refusing to play a FC game as preparation.

 

[FreePalestine]

Yorkshire never made public statements against Rashid after his call outside of stating they were surprised given his decision not to play first class cricket, contradictory to what you say they actually said they were disappointed about the lack of communication between the ECB and the club over the issue.

Of course many at Yorkshire would be irritated with him and had pretty fair reason to be so. He'd publicly stated his heart wasn't there to play FC cricket for Yorkshire but also said he was open to playing FC cricket for England in addition to refusing to play the title deciding county championship game at the end of the 2016 season. At a time when he was being touted to likely be in the squad by the papers (and presumably been told his call up was coming) he then refused to play the FC rose's games for Yorkshire. I'd imagine a lot of frustration was also aimed at the selectors. Someone not playing FC cricket shouldn't be considered for selection for the test team, especially when they know their selection is likely and are still refusing to play a FC game as preparation.

Yorkshire were mad about much more than lack of communication, they suggested that the decision was damaging for Rashid (why? Because the club would take it out on him? Or because it will indulge his laziness?) and for the county game. That is quite a lot to put on one event. Is he responsible for the IPL as well? Here is exactly what they said. Just because it is politely put doesn’t mean the implications are not as I have stated them:

Mark Arthur, Yorkshire’s chief executive, said: “We’re very surprised that England have called Adil up after not playing red ball cricket this season. Neither has he expressed a desire to do so. I hope that England know what they’re doing to Adil, and the county game.”

You say they had a right to be annoyed because he said his heart wasn’t there to play first class cricket. But Alex Hales also quit first class cricket and no one got annoyed with him. As I have already said twice, Adil was criticized by everyone in the media for the same decision Alex Hales made.

The whole selection issue, which was Ed Smith’s doing, not Adil Rashid’s, happened afterwards. If he had already said he did not want to play first class cricket, and Ed Smith wants to pick him for England, you wanted him to say no?

So the only thing left is the rose bowl game. Even if Adil knew he was going to be picked by England, perhaps he thought the rose bowl game would not put him in the right mindset, perhaps his shoulder wasn’t right, perhaps the relationship with Yorkshire was already under strain because he quit FC cricket, I don’t really know the reason, neither do you. I do know he was under no contractual obligation to play FC cricket. He had already stated he did not want to.

Anyway, as I have already stated quite a few times, this is all irrelevant because the racism is proven in that he was criticized by the media before the rose bowl thing for doing the same thing Alex Hales did - quit FC cricket.

 

[HitWicket]

Yorkshire were mad about much more than lack of communication, they suggested that the decision was damaging for Rashid (why? Because the club would take it out on him? Or because it will indulge his laziness?) and for the county game. That is quite a lot to put on one event. Is he responsible for the IPL as well? Here is exactly what they said. Just because it is politely put doesn’t mean the implications are not as I have stated them:

Mark Arthur, Yorkshire’s chief executive, said: “We’re very surprised that England have called Adil up after not playing red ball cricket this season. Neither has he expressed a desire to do so. I hope that England know what they’re doing to Adil, and the county game.”

You say they had a right to be annoyed because he said his heart wasn’t there to play first class cricket. But Alex Hales also quit first class cricket and no one got annoyed with him. As I have already said twice, Adil was criticized by everyone in the media for the same decision Alex Hales made.

The whole selection issue, which was Ed Smith’s doing, not Adil Rashid’s, happened afterwards. If he had already said he did not want to play first class cricket, and Ed Smith wants to pick him for England, you wanted him to say no?

So the only thing left is the rose bowl game. Even if Adil knew he was going to be picked by England, perhaps he thought the rose bowl game would not put him in the right mindset, perhaps his shoulder wasn’t right, perhaps the relationship with Yorkshire was already under strain because he quit FC cricket, I don’t really know the reason, neither do you. I do know he was under no contractual obligation to play FC cricket. He had already stated he did not want to.

Anyway, as I have already stated quite a few times, this is all irrelevant because the racism is proven in that he was criticized by the media before the rose bowl thing for doing the same thing Alex Hales did - quit FC cricket.

There were hardly any more comments when Rashid quit than when Hales quit, it did perhaps deserve more comments however given he still had a potential test future unlike Hales. His comments saying he was still open to selection by England despite saying his heart wasn't in it for Yorkshire in the same format were what primarily triggered it.

If he didn't want to play FC cricket he shouldn't have been playing test cricket. As Yorkshire said, that's clearly a dangerous precedent to set for the county game.

 

[FreePalestine]

I don’t remember him saying explicitly that he would still want to play for England when he quit first class cricket. Maybe I missed that. As far as I remember, he said, he would be willing to play for them further down the line, but wanted to focus on limited overs cricket, which is a very different thing from what you are saying, and is a rational decision in the interest of performing well for England where he does it best.

If you can find the statement and a link to the article where he says he does not want to play FC cricket but wants to play for England, I could accept it. Otherwise, I am a bit sceptical. It is good that we have drilled down into this issue quite a lot. There was undoubtedly a lot more criticism of Rashid and zero criticism of Hales.

I assume you are of the opinion that Moeen Ali and Adil Rashid have not faced much institutional bias from the press and in their cricketing careers? And that the British press criticize players of South Asian descent as much as they criticize white British players?

 

[FreePalestine]

OK, I found it for you. Here is the original statement he made:

‘I’ve made the decision to just concentrate on white ball, something which makes me very happy and gives me the best chance of improving my cricket,” said Rashid. “It’s not me saying I’m finished from red ball. It’s just this summer I’m going to concentrate on white ball and see where that takes me. England and Trevor Bayliss were happy with the decision I made and are backing me fully.”

Where does he say that he wants to be selected for the test side despite not playing first class cricket?

 

[HitWicket]

I don’t remember him saying explicitly that he would still want to play for England when he quit first class cricket. Maybe I missed that. As far as I remember, he said, he would be willing to play for them further down the line, but wanted to focus on limited overs cricket, which is a very different thing from what you are saying, and is a rational decision in the interest of performing well for England where he does it best.

If you can find the statement and a link to the article where he says he does not want to play FC cricket but wants to play for England, I could accept it. Otherwise, I am a bit sceptical. It is good that we have drilled down into this issue quite a lot. There was undoubtedly a lot more criticism of Rashid and zero criticism of Hales.

I assume you are of the opinion that Moeen Ali and Adil Rashid have not faced much institutional bias from the press and in their cricketing careers? And that the British press criticize players of South Asian descent as much as they criticize white British players?

He didn't initially, it was when the papers started touting him later in the summer for a test recall that he said he'd be open to playing whilst continuing to refuse to play for Yorkshire in the Roses game as any form of preparation (with them at the time also being desperate for a spinner which didn't help). That's when the backlash began, there was hardly any backlash when he initially quit FC cricket other than a few expressing their disappointment given he still had the potential to play for England in all formats. I'm fine with Rashid not playing red ball cricket. If he wants to be considered for England though he should have to play red ball cricket for Yorkshire. In this case the selection panel should've said "Right, you sign a red ball contract with Yorkshire for the rest of the season, play the Roses game as preparation and you have a test recall. Otherwise we're going to have to look at someone else".

At the higher level I don't think there's been a massive amount of institutional racism towards them. Obviously I cannot comment on what they've faced below that and anything else out of the public eye but I think the backlash against Rashid (and the selection panel) was justified in the case we're discussing due to the reasons mentioned (as well as his previous history with Yorkshire) and I'm of the opinion that Moeen hasn't been consistent enough and has probably had far more of a chance than he should have, especially in limited overs.

 

[FreePalestine]

Although I see that you have your reasons for your arguments. Actually your denial of the existence of structural racism is part of the problem. Moeen Ali has publicly stated that he felt scapegoated for things. Would you say he is just ‘crying foul’? All you have to go is go to statsguru to see how many positions he has batted in and how many chances he was given. He was blamed for batting collapses by the press for batting at 8. He put up with all of it and never made statements until he had to take a break from cricket and then started saying something very nuanced and with a lot of humility. Still, people just think he was being paranoid or playing the victim... I think that is a little bit shameful.

Rashid, perhaps there is a little more nuance here, but I don’t think we are going to agree on how much backlash there was. People were after him a lot more than Alex Hales. The media start touting him as a replacement and asking him ‘would you still be willing to play for England?’, I don’t think any player would really say ‘no’ to that if asked, not Rashid or Hales. Anyway, if this is what caused the backlash, surely you would not have problems finding a news article showing that... instead, I can find countless articles from a simple google search slamming Adil Rashid for ‘quitting first class cricket’. Telegraph, the times, and other outlets just on the first page of a google search, all chastising Rashid. Yorkshire said they were disappointed with his decision and didn’t back him. Whereas for Hales, this is what Notts said:

Nottinghamshire director of cricket Mick Newell said: 'We are looking forward to Alex being involved again with us for the next two years as he was integral to our success in 50 and 20-over cricket last summer.

'Alex is entitled to make himself available for whatever format he wants to play, and we respect his decision. He's an outstanding white ball player and we look forward to him helping us win more trophies in that format of the game.'

Where was this statement of support for Rashid’s decision? Is he not entitled to make the same career choice?

I think if you can’t see it, you should trust their viewpoints a bit more and listen to what they are saying themselves about the issues. Take them at their word and you might gain a different perspective on things. I think I have given enough evidence to back up my views now. So if you want to still claim that Rashid’s character is what is the true cause of this, then please provide quotations to back up what you say he said...

So far, you said initially that he gave up first class cricket and said he wanted to play for England. This was false. So you then said, ‘oh, he said he will play for England when everyone was talking about it and the press kept asking him about it’, which is completely different from your original claim and understandable, if you think about the possible ways he could answer that question. ‘Yes’ or ‘no’. You wanted him to say ‘no’ to playing for England if the selectors picked him? That is very different from him saying, ‘oh I don’t want to play cc but I want to play for England’. He in fact never said such a thing.

 

[FreePalestine]

By the way, our quibbling about things here I think actually distracts from the actual scale of the problem:

Cricketers from South Asian backgrounds make up a huge chunk of the amateur game (something like 25%, I think, of ECB’s revenue from amateur comes from SA community) but very, very, very few actually make it to professional level. The ECB have now acknowledged this themselves, which is praiseworthy, but the proof will still be in the pudding. So far this situation for South Asian cricketers continues as far as I know.

Then when they finally get to international cricket, they are scapegoated, their characters are assassinated, they are easily discarded and often they are not able to become the cricketers they wanted to / were capable of being. Basically structural bias ruins or greatly diminishes careers. In the case of transition from amateur to professional, it basically wipes out careers.

The answers to this include more coaches from south asian backgrounds throughout the system, but really, more importantly than that, a confrontation of the bias evident in the narratives created around cricketers - ‘lazy’ Archer; ‘mercurial’ (same word they use to describe Pakistan) Ali; ‘selfish’ Rashid. The media thrive on these narratives and hound their careers.

In an analogy from basketball in the states, don’t know if you guys have seen ‘the last dance’, but the stuff the press did there to Michael Jordan after the death of his father, is a clearcut albeit very extreme example of the phenomenon I am talking about. Because it is Michael Jordan, and it is a historical case, it is easier to see what happened there than what is happening to Archer and Ali especially.

 

[HitWicket]

Although I see that you have your reasons for your arguments. Actually your denial of the existence of structural racism is part of the problem. Moeen Ali has publicly stated that he felt scapegoated for things. Would you say he is just ‘crying foul’? All you have to go is go to statsguru to see how many positions he has batted in and how many chances he was given. He was blamed for batting collapses by the press for batting at 8. He put up with all of it and never made statements until he had to take a break from cricket and then started saying something very nuanced and with a lot of humility. Still, people just think he was being paranoid or playing the victim... I think that is a little bit shameful.

As I've said before I personally think he quite often got a longer rope in the side than he should have given his performances. He's had his moments but on the whole he's been pretty inconsistent and isn't really needed for the teams balance given the presence of Stokes. I'm not convinced he's one of the best limited overs batsmen in the country and his performances with the ball in limited overs internationals has been pretty average yet he's racked up 130 LOI's. When the team performs poorly people are going to go after the weaker links of the established players in the team, that has quite often been Moeen and more recently Bairstow given his tail off. I'd also suggest it's one of the reasons his place in the test team has been questioned more than his place in the limited overs team despite him putting in his better performances in the former. I'm not denying structural racism exists in places, I'm saying I don't believe these are cases of them.

Rashid, perhaps there is a little more nuance here, but I don’t think we are going to agree on how much backlash there was. People were after him a lot more than Alex Hales. The media start touting him as a replacement and asking him ‘would you still be willing to play for England?’, I don’t think any player would really say ‘no’ to that if asked, not Rashid or Hales. Anyway, if this is what caused the backlash, surely you would not have problems finding a news article showing that... instead, I can find countless articles from a simple google search slamming Adil Rashid for ‘quitting first class cricket’. Telegraph, the times, and other outlets just on the first page of a google search, all chastising Rashid.

Could you share these articles that are significantly harsher than Hales? I think people are naturally going to be a bit more frustrated at Rashid's decision given evidently he still had the potential to play for England in all formats unlike Hales, but I don't recall much more backlash at the time of this announcement than Hales.

Yorkshire said they were disappointed with his decision and didn’t back him. Whereas for Hales, this is what Notts said:

Nottinghamshire director of cricket Mick Newell said: 'We are looking forward to Alex being involved again with us for the next two years as he was integral to our success in 50 and 20-over cricket last summer.

'Alex is entitled to make himself available for whatever format he wants to play, and we respect his decision. He's an outstanding white ball player and we look forward to him helping us win more trophies in that format of the game.'

Where was this statement of support for Rashid’s decision? Is he not entitled to make the same career choice?

"From my point of view it's disappointing," Yorkshire's director of cricket, Martyn Moxon, said. "I think Adil has got the ability to play in all three formats of the game, not only at county level, but also at international level. It is Adil's decision and we have to respect that."

"He's been an important member of our white-ball team over the last number of years and is a potential matchwinner. We're pleased to have him playing white-ball cricket for us and, with his sole focus being on that, you'd expect his skills to improve."

Doesn't look too dissimilar to me. Naturally Yorkshire would be more disappointed than Notts though. Rashid was going to be a vital member of Yorkshire's FC squad who'd have been available for the majority of the FC season. Just a couple of months before Yorkshire had awarded him a benefit season following which he'd commented saying he was "very much looking forward to 2018 and contributing some big wins for the club". On the other hand Hales wouldn't have been available for the majority of the FC season and arguably would have only have been a fringe player in Notts best XI on the sparse occasions he would've been available.

So far, you said initially that he gave up first class cricket and said he wanted to play for England. This was false. So you then said, ‘oh, he said he will play for England when everyone was talking about it and the press kept asking him about it’, which is completely different from your original claim and understandable,

You're putting words in my mouth. I claimed most of the backlash was aimed at Rashid because he made himself unavailable for Yorkshire but still wanted to be considered for England, something clearly true given he said he said he would consider an England test recall whilst continuing to reject Yorkshires requests for him to play and then later agreed to it when was approached by the selectors, again continuing to reject Yorkshires requests for him to play.

if you think about the possible ways he could answer that question. ‘Yes’ or ‘no’. You wanted him to say ‘no’ to playing for England if the selectors picked him? That is very different from him saying, ‘oh I don’t want to play cc but I want to play for England’. He in fact never said such a thing.

Yes, if he didn't want to play any FC cricket for Yorkshire even as preparation for the test series when he knew he was getting called up then I'd want him to say no to the England call up. Some of that blame also clearly rests on the selectors who should've put their foot down on the matter and they received their fair share of criticism for the situation as well.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

There is no need of making logical sense when you can make sweeping statements and resort to sensationalism.

Just stand in line and agree with everyone else that if it wasn’t for racism, the south Asian community would have produced multiple ATGs for English cricket.

I don't know how anyone can even say that the likes of samit, bopara, owais shah etc. were twice as good as anyone. They should be bonafide ATGs otherwise. The best of ten - Nasser , Rashid have had good careers. But not a single one of the south Asian cricketers are/were good enough to be English greats let alone ATGs.

 

[Technics 1210]

I remember when Sachin Tendulkar was Yorkshire's first ever overseas player.

The fight agsint racsim has come along way. You just have to look and the ethnic diversity of the England Test, ODI, T20 teams today. Unthinkable in the 80s/90s.

Carberry was just a rubbish player. He is playing the victim card but the reality is he has to provide some evidence backing his claim.

 

[Mamoon]

If non-white cricketers continue to wallop in self-pity and blame the racist system, they will continue to fall short. Don’t look for excuses and be the best cricketer that you can be. The bottom-line is that if you are good enough and distinguish yourself with performances, you will get your chance and it will become impossible to ignore you even if the selectors are racist.

Racism did not stop a Barbados boy from moving to England and make such an impact that the racist ECB was forced to change the rules to fast-track a black cricketer into the World Cup squad where he made a huge impact.

Racism did not stop Haseeb Hameed from bypassing hundreds of white batsmen and opening in Test cricket in India at the age of 19.

If South Asian and black cricketers keep finding excuses for their failures by playing the racism card instead of taking inspiration from success stories and people who fought their way through the system through performances, then they will continue to be on the periphery.

When you are a minority, playing the racism card is the easiest thing to do when you are not getting your way. Unfortunately, the non-minority population, the whites in this case, do not have the luxury of playing such a card when things do not go their way.

 

[FreePalestine]

Moeen Ali had a higher average than Stokes for a long time in test cricket. He played in the top 3 in fc cricket consistently. But when he came to the test team he was too flashy, too mercurial, even though he was averaging more than Stokes and England were rotating players in those top positions every other game. They ruined him as a batsman. Why was he the one who always had to adapt to a different position, despite playing match winning knocks? Actually, even when he won games from England at no. 8 commentators insisting on pointing out first and foremost that he is at no. 8 and so it is easier and the players who failed in the top order would probably have done the same if they were at 8! Just absolutely refused to admit that he could have talent with the bat.

ODI cricket, he has been given a fair go by Morgan I would say. They have a strong batting line up for flat tracks. And his batting was absolutely shot by the world cup - definitely much worse than it was initially. I would refer you to his own interview when he decided to take a break from test cricket to find out what he thinks about it all.

Overall, the media were always after him. Every game. There were players who performed worse, but it was more than often Ali’s fault. Blaming a batting collapse on the no. 8 doesn’t make much sense to me.

Perhaps you may be partially right about Rashid though. It felt like they were scapegoating him for everything, but I haven’t been following him hugely. I remember Michael Vaughan and others also criticized his decision to quit FC cricket, but I suppose it is OK if Yorkshire at least backed him initially as you said.

He either should have played the Rose Bowl game or explained his thinking better if he had genuine reasons. He does appear a bit flippant in the interviews about the domestic game. But I am not going to criticize him myself as I know the context within which these players are scrutinized by the media.

 

[HitWicket]

I remember when Sachin Tendulkar was Yorkshire's first ever overseas player.

The fight agsint racsim has come along way. You just have to look and the ethnic diversity of the England Test, ODI, T20 teams today. Unthinkable in the 80s/90s.

Carberry was just a rubbish player. He is playing the victim card but the reality is he has to provide some evidence backing his claim.

In Yorkshire's defence I'm pretty sure Tendulkar was one of their first players born outside Yorkshire let alone their first overseas player.

Carberry was unlucky, he had some very good years in county cricket that unfortunately coincided with a very solid partnership of Cook and Strauss. He probably deserved a longer shot after putting on a respectable performance relative to everyone else in that Ashes series although perhaps that's more in hindsight given all the openers we've been through since.

 

[MenInG]

What about provincialism? religious persecution in cricket teams around the world?

 

[Giannis]

Who were those two south african cricketers that were racially abusing Chopra? They need to be identified and then #CancelCulture needs to do it's thing, those guys should never be allowed to do anything related to sports or retire and get a cushy cricket commentator or admin job.

 

[Firebat]

Jason Holder: Racism should be treated as seriously as match-fixing and doping

Players found guilty of racism should face the same penalties as match-fixers and dopers, says West Indies captain Jason Holder.

While International Cricket Council (ICC) rules allow for a life ban for on-pitch racist abuse, culprits are rarely punished to that extent.

"I don't think the penalty for doping or corruption should be any different for racism," Holder told BBC Sport.

"If we've got issues within our sport, we must deal with them equally."

Under the ICC's anti-racism policy, a first offence is usually punished with between four and eight suspension points. Two suspension points equate to a ban for one Test or two one-day internationals or two T20 international matches.

Former Pakistan captain Sarfaraz Ahmed missed two one-day internationals and two Twenty20 matches as punishment for a racist remark to South Africa all-rounder Andile Phehlukwayo in 2019.

Holder cited the experience of England's Jofra Archer, who has been a target of racial remarks from the crowd both in home and away Tests, and team-mate Moeen Ali, who it is believed was targeted by India fans in a 2014 match because of his Pakistani background.

Holder, whose team will take on England in a behind-closed-doors three-Test series starting on 8 July in Southampton, said that he believed that each international meeting could be preceded by reminders to both teams of their responsibilities around race.

"In addition to having anti-doping briefings and anti-corruption briefings, maybe we should have an anti-racism feature before we start a series," he added.

"My message is more education needs to go around it.

"I've not experience any racial abuse first hand but have heard or seen a few things around it. It's something you just can't stand for."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/53044288

 

[MenInG]

If you play for England, we will shoot you’ -- that’s the kind of death threats former England all-rounder Phillip DeFreitas claims to have received during his playing days as he opened up on the raging issue of racism in sports.

The 54-year-old DeFreitas, who took 140 and 115 wickets in 44 Tests and 103 ODIs respectively for England, said the multiple death threats that he received affected his international career as he couldn’t focus on cricket.

“I received hate letters from the National Front - it’s not only once, I received that two or three times, saying ‘If you play for England, we will shoot you’,” DeFreitas said in a Sky Cricket Podcast.

“I had police looking after my house. I had a sponsored car with my name on it and I had to remove that. So can you imagine me driving down to London? I’m in a hotel two days before a Test match at Lord’s and I’m thinking ‘do I play or don’t I? Am I going to have a sniper?

“How can I focus on playing cricket for England with all that but with my determination, I would not allow those people to beat me ever.”

The death of African-American George Floyd at the hands of a white police officer in the United States has triggered global outrage against racism in society.

DeFreitas, who played for England between 1986 to 1997, said he received no support and had to fend for himself.

“I had no help, I had no support; I had to deal with that all on my own, it hurts quite a lot. I remember going home to my Mum and saying ‘I don’t feel like I belong there’ But I’m proud of what I achieved.”

DeFreitas, who made his Test debut in the 1986/87 Ashes at the age of 20 alongside two of his heroes -- Ian Botham and Allan Lamb, said he “always felt he had to be twice as good as a white person".

“There was that feeling where you felt you were just on your own all the time. People used to say ‘why don’t you get involved’, ‘why don’t you be more with the team’. You felt lonely, you felt all on your own. It was really tough.

“To have Gladstone Small and Chris Lewis playing for England was fantastic - it made you feel a bit better, but never secure. I never felt welcome; I always felt like every game was my last game. I was desperate to play for England and that kept me going.”

He said he also faced rejection when he applied for a full-time role with a county.

Defreitas said he did not stand up against racism during his playing days as he was scared to lose his place in the team. He believes the current England team has the opportunity to support and send a strong message against racism.

“I wish I was able to come out and stand up for what I believed when I played, and the reasons why I didn’t was because I was always afraid that I’d never play for England again or that I’d be seen as a trouble-maker,” he said.

“The guys now have a great opportunity to stand up, be counted, and send the message out because this is going on and people are supporting them. I never felt I had that support. It was a scary place back then.”

https://sportstar.thehindu.com/cric...ns-up-on-racism-in-sports/article31933959.ece

 

[MenInG]

Players found guilty of racism should face the same penalties as match-fixers and dopers, says West Indies captain Jason Holder.

While International Cricket Council (ICC) rules allow for a life ban for on-pitch racist abuse, culprits are rarely punished to that extent.

"I don't think the penalty for doping or corruption should be any different for racism," Holder told BBC Sport.

"If we've got issues within our sport, we must deal with them equally."

Under the ICC's anti-racism policy, a first offence is usually punished with between four and eight suspension points. Two suspension points equate to a ban for one Test or two one-day internationals or two T20 international matches.

Former Pakistan captain Sarfaraz Ahmed missed two one-day internationals and two Twenty20 matches as punishment for a racist remark to South Africa all-rounder Andile Phehlukwayo in 2019.

Holder cited the experience of England's Jofra Archer, who has been a target of racial remarks from the crowd both in home and away Tests, and team-mate Moeen Ali, who it is believed was targeted by India fans in a 2014 match because of his Pakistani background.

Holder, whose team will take on England in a behind-closed-doors three-Test series starting on 8 July in Southampton, said that he believed that each international meeting could be preceded by reminders to both teams of their responsibilities around race.

"In addition to having anti-doping briefings and anti-corruption briefings, maybe we should have an anti-racism feature before we start a series," he added.

"My message is more education needs to go around it.

"I've not experience any racial abuse first hand but have heard or seen a few things around it. It's something you just can't stand for."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/53044288

 

[MenInG]

Former England batsman Roland Butcher, who was the first black cricketer to play for the national team, has stated that cricket has done very little to combat racism while football has been very playing a proactive role in this regard over the years.

Notably, the ‘Black Lives Matter’ movement has been going on after the death of African-American George Floyd at the hands of a Minneapolis police personnel in the US in May.

Recently, West Indies all-rounder Carlos Brathwaite had stated that taking a knee us not at all enough in the fight against racism as according to him, a change in mindset is needed across the world.

“I must say football is a lot better now than it used to be. Football has done a lot to clean up its act,” Barbados-born Butcher told Times of India in an interview.

“They have been very proactive. For a number of years, cricket has not been. I think cricket has sat silently back and really said nothing. I think generally, it is less tolerated in football than it is in cricket,” added the 66-year old who has played three Tests and three ODIs for England.

When asked if ever experienced racism, the former cricketer who played for Middlesex stated, “People never abused me directly. I’m not saying that there wasn’t any racism. Obviously, people may have said things that you didn’t hear etc. etc.”

“I did not encounter the sort of racism that some other people did. I know some other people were really abused and caught all sorts of things.”

“It is difficult, but as I say if the clubs can really set the agenda and have a policy of not tolerating any form of racism. They have to show the way,” he added.

https://www.thestatesman.com/sports...hing-to-racism-roland-butcher-1502906520.html

 

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Cricket’s governing body to focus on leadership, education and opportunity to address barriers and open up cricket to more diverse communities

Changes to include increasing diversity in leadership across the ECB and the wider game

Game wide anti-discrimination charter and code to span players, coaches, fans, media and clubs to launch

Increased opportunities for BAME individuals across play, coaching and employment with a specific focus on young people

Group of Black influencers and stakeholders to be recruited from across cricket to share insight and support further development of plans

Plan to work cohesively with five-year growth strategy, Inspiring Generations

The ECB today announced a range of action in the first phase of work to strengthen its inclusion and diversity strategy and continue the change needed to make cricket a game for everyone.

These first steps have focused on three key areas of development:

Leadership & Governance across the game – Improving representation across administrators and decision makers so the game embodies the modern and diverse society we live in

Listening & Education – Listen, learn and educate to broaden understanding and openness across cricket

Opportunity & Visibility – Create further opportunities and highlight role models for diverse communities within the sport

Measures announced today include a commitment to increased diversity in leadership across the game, in addition to a number of other measures. The ECB Board currently meets the Sport England Code targets for gender diversity across Board members, but will seek to advance further in other areas, particularly Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAME) representation. The Board will also work with First Class County and County Boards to support them reaching their own representation targets, notably, to have at least 30% women and a BAME target guided by the make-up of their local population – as quickly as possible.

A new coaching bursary will be introduced for future Black coaches, cricket provision increased in primary schools, particularly those which are most ethnically diverse, and a game-wide anti-discrimination charter and code will be launched to span players, coaches, fans, media and clubs across the professional and recreational game. The ECB will continue to work with the FCCs in recommending the adoption of the Rooney Rule for all coaching roles across the game.

We will also deliver support to the PCA on its consultation with BAME players to understand further the experiences of current and past players and inform what further action may be required. To ensure ongoing collaboration and a dedicated approach to Black communities, the ECB will also work directly with Black influencers and stakeholders recruited from across cricket, with Chief Executive Officer Tom Harrison leading an initial set of meetings. Sanjay Patel, MD of The Hundred, has been appointed the ECB’s executive Inclusion & Diversity champion, to ensure insights and experiences are used to shape impactful programmes that reach and resonate with Black communities, as well as other diverse groups.

The announcement is designed to extend the ECB’s existing Inclusion & Diversity action plan. The measures also build on the organisation’s five-year Inspiring Generations strategy, created in collaboration with the game, which aims to increase the reach and engagement with cricket through projects such as The Hundred, transforming women’s and girls’ cricket, and the South Asian Action Plan.

The key pillars of work include a number of actions:

Leadership and Governance:

Continue to ensure the ECB meets the Sport England Code for Sports Governance, now and in the future. Advance BAME representation on ECB Board and sub-committees

Support the game to deliver early on its 2022 County Governance targets around I&D in leadership positions

Appoint ECB Executive and Board Sponsors for I&D

Launch a game-wide anti-discrimination charter

Listening and Education:

Collaborate with PCA on their BAME player consultation & ongoing education for I&D

Continue delivery of our ROAR for Diversity programme with The Premier League

Consult with and learn from Black influencers and stakeholders from across cricket

Expand our I&D education programme for ECB Board and gamewide leaders

Visibility and Opportunity:

Develop our recruitment and talent management processes to create a more inclusive and diverse workforce
Continue to work with FCCs to adopt the Rooney Rule for all coaching roles across the game

Launch a bursary programme for future black coaches

Pilot an apprenticeship programme with a focus on diverse representation
Inspiring Generations

Broaden cricket’s appeal to new audiences through launching The Hundred

Deliver our South Asian Action plan

Transform women’s and girls’ cricket and make cricket a gender-balanced sport

Grow participation in disability cricket

Increase cricket provision in the most ethnically diverse communities through urban facilities investment, primary school programmes, and All Stars / Dynamos Cricket

Tom Harrison, ECB Chief Executive Officer, said: “Alongside most of society, we have had to confront some uncomfortable truths in the wake of the Black Lives Matter movement. We have listened and will continue to listen carefully to the experiences of Black people in cricket and society, and we thank those who worked tirelessly and spoke bravely to open up conversations about the change our sport needs to create.

“We have made strong strides in many areas to become a more inclusive and diverse sport, but we realise there is a great deal more to do.

“Our Inspiring Generations strategy – with the launch of The Hundred and initiatives to increase participation among women and girls and get more schools playing – represents a five-year plan to grow cricket and make it more relevant to our diverse nation. These first steps in our expanded Inclusion and Diversity plans will now support it and help us make sure we don’t leave anyone behind.

“We are thankful to those within cricket who have given us their views and insights and are committed to keeping us honest and focused on our delivery to Black communities. Through their experiences, and their desire for change, we are certain we can start to create lasting foundations into Black communities and see a future that creates a more inclusive cricket world.

“This is the first phase of our new plans, and we know we can never stand still if we are to be truly inclusive and diverse. We will continue to listen to, consult and collaborate with diverse communities to develop further. We remain committed to learning more, growing more and achieving more with open minds and a single-minded philosophy to deliver on our aims - to see a generation inspired to say that ‘cricket is a game for me’.”

 

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"Until we educate the entire human race, this thing will not stop." <br><br>Michael Holding delivers a powerful message, explaining why <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BlackLivesMatter?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BlackLivesMatter</a>. <a href="https://t.co/2jiATkOqQ4">pic.twitter.com/2jiATkOqQ4</a></p>— Sky Sports Cricket (@SkyCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SkyCricket/status/1280809870766284800?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 8, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>