Ravi Ashwin and Sanjay Manjrekar face off on Twitter

[globalcitizen]

No cricketer in the world should be called ATG while still playing.
Personally I feel Ashwin will be considered an Indian great once he hangs his boots. That is itself a huge honour.

For an overall ATG, I think these stat's will be looked at and should tick atleast a few.

dominating world cricket from a very young age - NO
Overseas series dominance and wins - especially in new world SENA - NO
Respect and fear from batsmen - YES
Significant contribution in a world cup glory - NO (but wc t21 is a chance)
champion leader - NO
Gun all-rounder - NO

Based on above criteria, ATG might just be elusive for Ashwin. But india must be extremely proud of this guy.

 

[octavian]

Manjrekar is right. Ashwin is not an ATG yet. Don't know why there is even a debate.

 

[Proactive_]

Reason 1 - Spinners usually mature late.

Citation needed.

Reason 2 - Some players are destined to be ATGs (Sachin, Lara, Ponting, Kohli, etc). Some players become ATGs (Sanga, Anderson). The latter usually become ATGs in their late 30s. Ashwin may or may not. Time will tell. Heck, the fact that there is even a debate about it right now among experts is proof of that.

Don't think any spin bowler in the history of cricket who was not an ATG at age 35 ended his career being an ATG but okay if you say so.

By the way, Kumble averaged 48 in SA 1996 away series. He averaged 25 in 1992 SA series. Maybe you are referring to that.

I don't know enough about that series to comment about that. Looks a great performance. Did you notice one thing: You don't even know the details of that series properly yet its better than what Ashwin has done till date.

Thanks for the clarification, actually for more reasons than one.

So you actually proved your own statement false that somehow "Kumble initially struggled overseas like Ashwin did" when Kumble - it turns out had a far better performance overseas by the time he was 23(!) than Ashwin has had at age 35.

I somehow looked at the Indian home series in 96/97 against SA but thanks for finding me an even better performance!

"No standout performance in SENA."

It's a fair assessment and I can't see anything you've argued to disprove this. Valuable performances - Yes. Standout MOTM worthy performances? -No.

"Kumble's some series in SA is better than what Ashwin has done even tho I don't even remember the series."

Yes Kumble's series was greater. And I'm sure nobody of this generation remembers Kapil's 175 either. Doesn't mean that they can't all it a great innings only because they weren't at Tunbridge Wells to see it

"Anderson has outbowled Indian bowlers and won series in India inspite of no 5fers but Ashwin doesn't even have a standout performance and no 5fers".

Anderson did out bowl Indian pacers in the recent series. Let there be no confusion regarding that. And Mumbai 2006 was as standout a performance a performance as it can be- He was the highest wicket taker in the match (from either side) and got the wickets of Sachin, Dravid and Sehwag. Don't think any Ashwin performance in SENA matches that. And I'm not even considering some of Anderson's performances in UAE/SL which are arguably even better than Mumbai 2006.

Do I have to explain a simple point a MILLION time for you to get?

I clearly gave the example of you using Anderson's contribution in 2012 where he came to the fore in 3rd test and compared it with Ashwin who was right on the money from ball 1. If you rate Anderson's performance in India (which you do), then stop this whole charade of "no standout performance".

Your OWN logic has been used against you. End of the topic.

Addressed above.

Anderson > Ashwin (overall).

Issue ain't that.

But your comedy logic and hypocrisy is the issue.

You are free to prove that Ashwin's performances in SENA are comparable to Anderson's in Asia. Heck create a separate thread if you wish and I'll be the first one to reply there too proving again why that notion is ridiculous.

Wrong again mate.

Out of the 900 overs, Ashwin bowled 339 on the deadest picthes (2011 and 2015) with minimal fast bowling support.

In the other 561 overs, this happened:

Career: 32.80 average. 71 SR.
Post 2015: 466 overs. 29 average. 71 SR.

Compare that to performance of overseas spinners in Aus.

Swann 52.
Kumble 37.
Bhajji lol.
Murali 70 odd.
Saqlain 34

So you're saying that SENA conditions were somehow so much friendlier for the above mentioned bowlers than they have been for Ashwin? Yeah you're scraping the bottom of the barrel now dude.

They didn't bowl on these same dead pitches. And didn't always have a horrible pace attack. But they bowled to way better batsman. But if you follow cricket, you will know how much easy it is for scoring runs on dead pitches.

So you give Ashwin the sole credit for Australia 2018/19 and 20/21 ("Ashwin won India two series in Australia" ) and then make the excuse about poor Indian pace attacks in the series' before that carefully neglecting the fact that India has fielded it's best pace attacks EVER in the last two Aussie tours?

Alright.

England scored a gazzilion in India when the pitch was dead in Chennai day 1-2....and then couldn't buy a run later on in any of the future pitches. Even struggled against NZ at home.

Dead pitches are a real deal which is why I argue against those who put down Kumble due to some performances in SL and Pak on absolutely dead pitches. Any tom, dick and harry can smash you on those tracks.

Must have taken a lot of time to compile those stats eh

Sure you're free to add any context that you want. I did one myself when I said that Kumble averaging 29 in 03/04 in Aus. is an ATG performance even though an average of 29 doesn't necessarily sound inspiring.

What you do is another level of hyperbolic agenda driven narration where somehow Ashwin becomes the sole individual who "won India two Test series in Australia" and "the only one who looked like taking a wicket (lol) ". You're not really covering yourself with objectivity here dude.

You can't even address your double standards reg how your rate Anderson's performance in India vs Ashwin's in Aus.

"No standout performance by Ash" vs "Anderson outbowling indian bowlers" - That argument alone says a volume.

Addressed multiple times above.

Making crazy claims and throwing a bone at the end doesn't mean your claims are right mate.

I agree with your final premise. Ashwin ain't an ATG. He is more closer to being an ATG AR (or cricketer) than a bowler. This has been my view for a long time too.

The issue is the other claims you make in this thread plus your past claims like ......how he was a mudpit bowler, how he can't bowl in SENA, etc, etc....all while using a different yardstick for another bowler.

I don't see the words "mudpit bowler" used by me anywhere in this thread. On the contrary I actually gave him credit for using home conditions as well as he does. And I pointed out some of the most obvious inadequacies that he has. It's for you to introspect why you can't accept some of the very glaring flaws that Ashwin has which the entire world is pointing out.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Citation needed.



Don't think any spin bowler in the history of cricket who was not an ATG at age 35 ended his career being an ATG but okay if you say so.




Thanks for the clarification, actually for more reasons than one.

So you actually proved your own statement false that somehow "Kumble initially struggled overseas like Ashwin did" when Kumble - it turns out had a far better performance overseas by the time he was 23(!) than Ashwin has had at age 35.

I somehow looked at the Indian home series in 96/97 against SA but thanks for finding me an even better performance!





It's a fair assessment and I can't see anything you've argued to disprove this. Valuable performances - Yes. Standout MOTM worthy performances? -No.



Yes Kumble's series was greater. And I'm sure nobody of this generation remembers Kapil's 175 either. Doesn't mean that they can't all it a great innings only because they weren't at Tunbridge Wells to see it



Anderson did out bowl Indian pacers in the recent series. Let there be no confusion regarding that. And Mumbai 2006 was as standout a performance a performance as it can be- He was the highest wicket taker in the match (from either side) and got the wickets of Sachin, Dravid and Sehwag. Don't think any Ashwin performance in SENA matches that. And I'm not even considering some of Anderson's performances in UAE/SL which are arguably even better than Mumbai 2006.



Addressed above.





You are free to prove that Ashwin's performances in SENA are comparable to Anderson's in Asia. Heck create a separate thread if you wish and I'll be the first one to reply there too proving again why that notion is ridiculous.





So you're saying that SENA conditions were somehow so much friendlier for the above mentioned bowlers than they have been for Ashwin? Yeah you're scraping the bottom of the barrel now dude.



So you give Ashwin the sole credit for Australia 2018/19 and 20/21 ("Ashwin won India two series in Australia" ) and then make the excuse about poor Indian pace attacks in the series' before that carefully neglecting the fact that India has fielded it's best pace attacks EVER in the last two Aussie tours?

Alright.



Sure you're free to add any context that you want. I did one myself when I said that Kumble averaging 29 in 03/04 in Aus. is an ATG performance even though an average of 29 doesn't necessarily sound inspiring.

What you do is another level of hyperbolic agenda driven narration where somehow Ashwin becomes the sole individual who "won India two Test series in Australia" and "the only one who looked like taking a wicket (lol) ". You're not really covering yourself with objectivity here dude.




Addressed multiple times above.





I don't see the words "mudpit bowler" used by me anywhere in this thread. On the contrary I actually gave him credit for using home conditions as well as he does. And I pointed out some of the most obvious inadequacies that he has. It's for you to introspect why you can't accept some of the very glaring flaws that Ashwin has which the entire world is pointing out.

Citation needed.

Well known belief among experts.

https://sports.ndtv.com/australia-v...like-wine-team-india-bowling-coach-bh-1961589

Though not all spinners take time to mature, they more often than not, reach the peak late.

Herath, Kumble, Tahir (in LOIs), Lyon are some examples.

Obviously not everyone is good enough to have a long career and mature.

Don't think any spin bowler in the history of cricket who was not an ATG at age 35 ended his career being an ATG but okay if you say so.

Agreed.

Tho the criteria for ATG among spinners is hazy.

So that makes it hard.

Some say there are only 2 undisputed ATG spinners so naturally there will be none in history.

Thanks for the clarification, actually for more reasons than one.

So you actually proved your own statement false that somehow "Kumble initially struggled overseas like Ashwin did" when Kumble - it turns out had a far better performance overseas by the time he was 23(!) than Ashwin has had at age 35.

I somehow looked at the Indian home series in 96/97 against SA but thanks for finding me an even better performance!

Yeah I don't even know which series it is but its already better than Ashwin's performance in Aus.

No wonder no comments on your hypocrisy. lol.

It's a fair assessment and I can't see anything you've argued to disprove this. Valuable performances - Yes. Standout MOTM worthy performances? -No.

Its like arguing with a child now.

Just cos you will bury your head in sand and refuse to see how you got cornered with your own logic (James Anderson) doesn't make it all a lie. )

Yes Kumble's series was greater. And I'm sure nobody of this generation remembers Kapil's 175 either. Doesn't mean that they can't all it a great innings only because they weren't at Tunbridge Wells to see it

) ) )

Nobody remember Kapil's 175.

Another gem.

I will compile a list of ALL the gems you made in this thread.

Kapil's 175 is talked about to this date. Think i saw an article recently too.

You are just blindly shooting now.

Anderson did out bowl Indian pacers in the recent series. Let there be no confusion regarding that. And Mumbai 2006 was as standout a performance a performance as it can be- He was the highest wicket taker in the match (from either side) and got the wickets of Sachin, Dravid and Sehwag. Don't think any Ashwin performance in SENA matches that. And I'm not even considering some of Anderson's performances in UAE/SL which are arguably even better than Mumbai 2006.

Ashwin in Melbourne & Adelaide - NO standout performance even tho he got wickets and got the BIG fishes.

Anderson in Mumbai - Standout performance.

)

Thanks for playing lol.

Addressed above.

Ghanta addressed above.

Addressing means showing you are using the same yardstick.

Not repeating the points over & over again.

Sure you're free to add any context that you want. I did one myself when I said that Kumble averaging 29 in 03/04 in Aus. is an ATG performance even though an average of 29 doesn't necessarily sound inspiring.

What you do is another level of hyperbolic agenda driven narration where somehow Ashwin becomes the sole individual who "won India two Test series in Australia" and "the only one who looked like taking a wicket (lol) ". You're not really covering yourself with objectivity here dude.

\

Kumble's 29 average in Aus 2003 is ATG performance due to "context".

Ashwin's 29 average in Aus 2020 is NOT even standout worthy.

Forget about James Anderson hypocrisy yet another comedy now )

What you do is another level of hyperbolic agenda driven narration where somehow Ashwin becomes the sole individual who "won India two Test series in Australia" and "the only one who looked like taking a wicket (lol) ". You're not really covering yourself with objectivity here dude.

Again have to spoon feed you.

Of course, it isn't.

Others contributed too.

Same goes for Kumble, Anderson and others.

But I will take a point out of context and use it as a deflection cos I have no arguments to stand behind.

So you're saying that SENA conditions were somehow so much friendlier for the above mentioned bowlers than they have been for Ashwin? Yeah you're scraping the bottom of the barrel now dude.

Says a guy whose own logic has been his undoing this entire thread.

I mean, I would be super embarrassed if someone does this to me and stop it by now.

But you are a total different kind of breed.

But then, if you weren't, I wouldn't be going hammer and tongs with you ripping and shredding each of the weak arguments you have buddy.

I don't see the words "mudpit bowler" used by me anywhere in this thread. On the contrary I actually gave him credit for using home conditions as well as he does. And I pointed out some of the most obvious inadequacies that he has. It's for you to introspect why you can't accept some of the very glaring flaws that Ashwin has which the entire world is pointing out.

Not in this thread.

But in past threads.

Have to dig it up but hey, don't have the time to do so.

It's for you to introspect why you can't accept some of the very glaring flaws that Ashwin has which the entire world is pointing out.

Says a guy who has a million contradictions in his own views.

By the way, I have been pretty fair reg Ashwin's failures and his standing in world cricket matches my view. Great at Asia but has to do more in SENA.

----------------------------------------------------------------

By now, I am convinced you will keep repeating the same points cos it's inconcievable for you to accept your hypocrisy and lazy arguments which have fallen flat this whole thread.

Atleast at the start of this thread, the discussion moved forward.

Now its all tangents and you repeating the same point again and again and calling it "clarification".

Probably not gonna dissect your points from now on and just address your main points if you end up making any.

 

[Proactive_]

Well known belief among experts.

https://sports.ndtv.com/australia-v...like-wine-team-india-bowling-coach-bh-1961589

Though not all spinners take time to mature, they more often than not, reach the peak late.

Herath, Kumble, Tahir (in LOIs), Lyon are some examples.

Obviously not everyone is good enough to have a long career and mature.

From the article:

"Spinners mature a lot with age. May be they are like wine"

Ok dude. really compelling stuff here.

Yeah I don't even know which series it is but its already better than Ashwin's performance in Aus.

No wonder no comments on your hypocrisy. lol.

So you have no opinion on any of the cricket that you haven't watched on television?

Its like arguing with a child now.

Just cos you will bury your head in sand and refuse to see how you got cornered with your own logic (James Anderson) doesn't make it all a lie. )

That's an interesting way of saying -"I have no reply so I'll start name calling instead"

) ) )

Nobody remember Kapil's 175.

Another gem.

I will compile a list of ALL the gems you made in this thread.

Kapil's 175 is talked about to this date. Think i saw an article recently too.

You are just blindly shooting now.

Seems like you didn't understand what I meant.

Obviously everyone talks about Kapil's 175, but how many of those who talk about it saw the innings in person? How many saw it on Television? Your every argument is predicated on the narration that you saw this and that series on television so you won't try to argue on anything other than your (biased) assessment of whether "Ashwin was the only bowler who looked like taking a wicket" and other related nonsense.

Kumble's 29 average in Aus 2003 is ATG performance due to "context".

Ashwin's 29 average in Aus 2020 is NOT even standout worthy.

Forget about James Anderson hypocrisy yet another comedy now )

Don't know what you're trying to say but I don't see any counter argument here.

Again have to spoon feed you.

Of course, it isn't.

Others contributed too.

Same goes for Kumble, Anderson and others.

But I will take a point out of context and use it as a deflection cos I have no arguments to stand behind.

It's only a deflection because the argument isn't going the way YOU want it to. Get over it. Arguments will be brought forth regardless of whether you consider them valid or not.

Says a guy whose own logic has been his undoing this entire thread.

I mean, I would be super embarrassed if someone does this to me and stop it by now.

But you are a total different kind of breed.

But then, if you weren't, I wouldn't be going hammer and tongs with you ripping and shredding each of the weak arguments you have buddy.

Again no argument. I only see name calling here again lol.

Not in this thread.

But in past threads.

Have to dig it up but hey, don't have the time to do so.

You have my opinion of Ashwin as of June 2021 and you choose to ignore it. I don't even know what to say here.



----------------------------------------------------------------

By now, I am convinced you will keep repeating the same points cos it's inconcievable for you to accept your hypocrisy and lazy arguments which have fallen flat this whole thread.

Atleast at the start of this thread, the discussion moved forward.

Now its all tangents and you repeating the same point again and again and calling it "clarification".

Probably not gonna dissect your points from now on and just address your main points if you end up making any.

Of course I'll keep repeating the same points as long as you don't address them.

It's not my fault that Ashwin averages 40+ in SENA as a now 34 year old in a 10+ year career.

It's not my fault that Ashwin has no 5-fors in SENA

It's not my fault that even spinners like R.Shastri have better stats in SENA as compared to Ashwin ( not to mention the half a dozen other Asian spinners.. maybe even more).

It's not my fault that you can't differentiate between an average of 27 (Anderson in Asia) and an average of 40 (Ashwin in SENA).

It's not my fault that you consider a series of 12 wickets @ 29 in 3 Tests as some sort of revolutionary performance when in comparison to a plethora of past Asian spinners' peak performances in SENA it doesn't quite match up.

But it's definitely my fault that I'm trying to reason with you when the majority of your posts are hilarious name calling reeking of a sort of superiority complex on cricketing knowledge when you can't even argue on basic facts on paper. So yes I guess it's pointless to continue the discussion.

You can keep thinking of Ashwin as some sort of great bowler who "won India two series in Australia" I'll keep my assessment of Ashwin as a very good all round cricketer and a great bowler in home conditions while being strictly mediocre in alien conditions with a lot to prove in that regard.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

From the article:

"Spinners mature a lot with age. May be they are like wine"

Ok dude. really compelling stuff here.





So you have no opinion on any of the cricket that you haven't watched on television?





That's an interesting way of saying -"I have no reply so I'll start name calling instead"



Seems like you didn't understand what I meant.

Obviously everyone talks about Kapil's 175, but how many of those who talk about it saw the innings in person? How many saw it on Television? Your every argument is predicated on the narration that you saw this and that series on television so you won't try to argue on anything other than your (biased) assessment of whether "Ashwin was the only bowler who looked like taking a wicket" and other related nonsense.





Don't know what you're trying to say but I don't see any counter argument here.





It's only a deflection because the argument isn't going the way YOU want it to. Get over it. Arguments will be brought forth regardless of whether you consider them valid or not.





Again no argument. I only see name calling here again lol.




You have my opinion of Ashwin as of June 2021 and you choose to ignore it. I don't even know what to say here.



----------------------------------------------------------------



Of course I'll keep repeating the same points as long as you don't address them.

It's not my fault that Ashwin averages 40+ in SENA as a now 34 year old in a 10+ year career.

It's not my fault that Ashwin has no 5-fors in SENA

It's not my fault that even spinners like R.Shastri have better stats in SENA as compared to Ashwin ( not to mention the half a dozen other Asian spinners.. maybe even more).

It's not my fault that you can't differentiate between an average of 27 (Anderson in Asia) and an average of 40 (Ashwin in SENA).

It's not my fault that you consider a series of 12 wickets @ 29 in 3 Tests as some sort of revolutionary performance when in comparison to a plethora of past Asian spinners' peak performances in SENA it doesn't quite match up.

But it's definitely my fault that I'm trying to reason with you when the majority of your posts are hilarious name calling reeking of a sort of superiority complex on cricketing knowledge when you can't even argue on basic facts on paper. So yes I guess it's pointless to continue the discussion.

You can keep thinking of Ashwin as some sort of great bowler who "won India two series in Australia" I'll keep my assessment of Ashwin as a very good all round cricketer and a great bowler in home conditions while being strictly mediocre in alien conditions with a lot to prove in that regard.

Ok dude. really compelling stuff here.

Don't have time to dig around for your requests mate.

Vengsarkar - https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...in-limited-overs-cricket-101616909985756.html

There are many more if I have time to dig around.

Its a common view lol.

That's an interesting way of saying -"I have no reply so I'll start name calling instead"

Dude...you literally got choked with your own arguments.

Seems like you didn't understand what I meant.

Obviously everyone talks about Kapil's 175, but how many of those who talk about it saw the innings in person? How many saw it on Television? Your every argument is predicated on the narration that you saw this and that series on television so you won't try to argue on anything other than your (biased) assessment of whether "Ashwin was the only bowler who looked like taking a wicket" and other related nonsense.

I did.

But you didn't understand the context AS usual.

Kumble's 1992 performance vs Ashwin's 2020 performance - You called the former better without even having a clear idea which series it is.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out which performance will be talked about for years to come.

Kapil's 175 will be talked about for decades regardless of whether someone saw it or not due to its impact.

So bringing up televised or newbies or youngsters is tangential arguments at best.

Of course I'll keep repeating the same points as long as you don't address them.

It's not my fault that Ashwin averages 40+ in SENA as a now 34 year old in a 10+ year career.

It's not my fault that Ashwin has no 5-fors in SENA

It's not my fault that even spinners like R.Shastri have better stats in SENA as compared to Ashwin ( not to mention the half a dozen other Asian spinners.. maybe even more).

It's not my fault that you can't differentiate between an average of 27 (Anderson in Asia) and an average of 40 (Ashwin in SENA).

It's not my fault that you consider a series of 12 wickets @ 29 in 3 Tests as some sort of revolutionary performance when in comparison to a plethora of past Asian spinners' peak performances in SENA it doesn't quite match up.

But it's definitely my fault that I'm trying to reason with you when the majority of your posts are hilarious name calling reeking of a sort of superiority complex on cricketing knowledge when you can't even argue on basic facts on paper. So yes I guess it's pointless to continue the discussion.

You can keep thinking of Ashwin as some sort of great bowler who "won India two series in Australia" I'll keep my assessment of Ashwin as a very good all round cricketer and a great bowler in home conditions while being strictly mediocre in alien conditions with a lot to prove in that regard.

You really think I want you to acknowledge Ashwin is a good bowler?



With all due respects to you sir, and please don't take this personally:

My ONE and ONLY goal is to absolute DESTROY and OBLITERATE all of your flimsy arguments, hypocrisy, tangents that you have been peddling for years.

Unlike others, I don't back down.

And no debating tactics or statistical manipulation will work here.

I have pointed out a ton of arguments using your OWN logic to show your bias.

Whether you choose to accept it or not is up to you.

But atleast you are aware of it.

And that's all I wanted to do.

I am taking time out of my super busy schedule to do this (lol).

You can assume this to be "name calling" or superiority complex or whatever but doesn't change the facts in the ground that your yardsticks are bogus and your hypocrisy isn't gonna go unnoticed.

The fact that I have reduced you to keep harping on this out of context point in almost every reply now speaks volumes.

You can keep thinking of Ashwin as some sort of great bowler who "won India two series in Australia" I'll keep my assessment of Ashwin as a very good all round cricketer and a great bowler in home conditions while being strictly mediocre in alien conditions with a lot to prove in that regard.

Peace out.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

^Posted links of vengsarkar, jarrod kimber and warnes coach.

Google them.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

We need [MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION] to close this off now.

 

[Rajdeep]

[MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] - TBH you are not answering his points...actually he is raising some valid ones. All we are getting response from you is a lot of hyperbole about 'How you will destroy him' or 'how you dont back down' etc. We get it, you are a good internet fighter but the points brother [MENTION=145164]Proactive_[/MENTION] is raising is true that Ashwin's stats are quiet mediocre in SENA countries and age is not with him to improve it either.

 

[Ab Fan]

Lol SIF, you surely could have picked a better time for this discussion. How on earth you debating regarding Ashwin and spoiling your day instead of enjoying what its looks like to me an entertaining 5-days World Test Championship Final. That's not very sensible I am afraid .

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

[MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] - TBH you are not answering his points...actually he is raising some valid ones. All we are getting response from you is a lot of hyperbole about 'How you will destroy him' or 'how you dont back down' etc. We get it, you are a good internet fighter but the points brother [MENTION=145164]Proactive_[/MENTION] is raising is true that Ashwin's stats are quiet mediocre in SENA countries and age is not with him to improve it either.

Please list out which points he raised that I haven't addressed.

Did you follow the discussion?

Argument 1 - Ashwin has no standout performances in SENA.

Me and many others have listed it out.

He rejected them all.

At the same time, he goes on and on about Anderson's performances in India in 2006 (mumbai test), 2012 (3rd test) and 2021 (chennai test).

Argument 2 - Ashwin doesn't have any 5fers in SENA.

So has Anderson in India. Yet he has made a zillion posts about how he has outbowled Indian pacers. Even tho, he too doesn't have 5fers.

In fact, I pointed out that Anderson came into picture very late in 2012 series while Ashwin has been on the money in 2020 from ball 1.

This is also excluding the fact that Anderson completely went missing in 2016 series and was good for one spell in 2021 series in India.

How come Anderson is rated to the skies for his performance in India while there is a different yardstick for Ashwin.

Argument 3 - Kumble's 1996 series is a better one than anything Ashwin had.

Actually the series was 1992.

He doesn't even remember the details yet its better than anything that Ashwin has done.

Argument 4 - Kumble's 29 average in 2003 is ATG performance while Ashwin's 29 average in 2020 isn't (heck not even standout worthy)

lol.

Please address these points and I will get to know your views better.

Every one of my points has been using his OWN logic and yardsticks.

-----

He also said that Kohli's 2018 SA series was over-rated cos first test he failed, second test (SC conditions) and third test its just a 50.

lol.

Either you don't know his history or you haven't followed this thread properly at all.

------

Anyways, let me know the answers to these 4 arguments so I can understand your point.

By the way, both me & Proactive agree about Ashwin needing to more in SENA. So no disagreements there.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Lol SIF, you surely could have picked a better time for this discussion. How on earth you debating regarding Ashwin and spoiling your day instead of enjoying what its looks like to me an entertaining 5-days World Test Championship Final. That's not very sensible I am afraid .

Haha not sensible at all indeed fo sho.

Following cricket too.

 

[Rajdeep]

Please list out which points he raised that I haven't addressed.

Did you follow the discussion?

Argument 1 - Ashwin has no standout performances in SENA.

Me and many others have listed it out.

He rejected them all.

At the same time, he goes on and on about Anderson's performances in India in 2006 (mumbai test), 2012 (3rd test) and 2021 (chennai test).

Argument 2 - Ashwin doesn't have any 5fers in SENA.

So has Anderson in India. Yet he has made a zillion posts about how he has outbowled Indian pacers. Even tho, he too doesn't have 5fers.

In fact, I pointed out that Anderson came into picture very late in 2012 series while Ashwin has been on the money in 2020 from ball 1.

This is also excluding the fact that Anderson completely went missing in 2016 series and was good for one spell in 2021 series in India.

How come Anderson is rated to the skies for his performance in India while there is a different yardstick for Ashwin.

Argument 3 - Kumble's 1996 series is a better one than anything Ashwin had.

Actually the series was 1992.

He doesn't even remember the details yet its better than anything that Ashwin has done.

Argument 4 - Kumble's 29 average in 2003 is ATG performance while Ashwin's 29 average in 2020 isn't (heck not even standout worthy)

lol.

Please address these points and I will get to know your views better.

Every one of my points has been using his OWN logic and yardsticks.

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He also said that Kohli's 2018 SA series was over-rated cos first test he failed, second test (SC conditions) and third test its just a 50.

lol.

Either you don't know his history or you haven't followed this thread properly at all.

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Anyways, let me know the answers to these 4 arguments so I can understand your point.

By the way, both me & Proactive agree about Ashwin needing to more in SENA. So no disagreements there.

Anderson is a bonafide ATG man. Yes he dont have a 5fer in India but he still avg 29 there. Along with that he avgs 20 in UAE and 32 in SL...the conditions where fast bowlers tend to struggle.

Ashwin is a very good bowler but he avgs 46 in Aust, 43 in SA and 34 in Eng (approximately as I dont have the stats handy). So its not just he needs to do more in SENA but he is simply poor in those countries. He is one of the best spinners in helpful sub continent conditions just like Kumble was before.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Anderson is a bonafide ATG man. Yes he dont have a 5fer in India but he still avg 29 there. Along with that he avgs 20 in UAE and 32 in SL...the conditions where fast bowlers tend to struggle.

Ashwin is a very good bowler but he avgs 46 in Aust, 43 in SA and 34 in Eng (approximately as I dont have the stats handy). So its not just he needs to do more in SENA but he is simply poor in those countries. He is one of the best spinners in helpful sub continent conditions just like Kumble was before.

Brother this is why I asked you if you even read our posts properly.

Cos it appears you misunderstood this argument.

1. This argument isn't about Ashwin vs Anderson per se.

Of course, Anderson > Ashwin cos he has achieved more in away condiitions.

I have mentioned this over & over again in this thread that Anderson > Ashwin.

If Ashwin had done the same, we would be calling him ATG.

2. This argument isn't about Ashwin vs Kumble too.

Not that you assumed it but just putting this out there too.

3. This argument isn't about Ashwin being an ATG or not

He's not.

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This argument is PURELY about Proactive's hypocrisy and double standards.

As I mentioned before, I like his refreshing take on things but he has also been peddling nonsense about many cricketers for years now and it's about time I address it.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Anderson is a bonafide ATG man. Yes he dont have a 5fer in India but he still avg 29 there. Along with that he avgs 20 in UAE and 32 in SL...the conditions where fast bowlers tend to struggle.

Ashwin is a very good bowler but he avgs 46 in Aust, 43 in SA and 34 in Eng (approximately as I dont have the stats handy). So its not just he needs to do more in SENA but he is simply poor in those countries. He is one of the best spinners in helpful sub continent conditions just like Kumble was before.

Also you do know I addressed these points right?

Post 2015, he averages 29 in SENA.

Anyways, this will take us into a different direction and I am not up for another detailed debate on this. You can check my old posts.

Overall average isn't everything cos even Anderson averages 30-40 in many countries yet he is rated an ATG. He is rated cos he improved his numbers later on.