"Recently my performances in ODIs haven't been that good so I'll try to perform well" : Shadab Khan

[Abdullah719]

"Recently my performances in ODIs haven't been that good so I'll try to perform well" : Shadab Khan

Shadab Khan at a presser today:

"Every player wishes to play in front of his home crowd. I'm feeling good about making my ODI home debut tomorrow, I hope I can perform well in front of the home crowd"

"Karachi's pitches are generally a little helpful for the spinners but it's been raining and we haven't seen the pitch. I will try to use the pitch well and get the opposition out"

"If I get a chance, I hope I don't even get out! I play as an all-rounder so whenever I am needed with the bat, I try to do well and I also wish to make runs if I get a chance to bat"

"I left CPL and came back to play FC, I wanted to bowl as much as I can in FC cricket to improve my bowling ahead of the Australia series. I'll have another FC match after the SL series so I'll try to bowl long spells to improve my bowling for Test matches"

"The team's mood is good. We will try to win all matches as a team. Recently my performances in ODIs haven't been that good so I will try to perform well for the team"

"I don't follow anyone as an all-rounder.. Steve Smith has now become a batsman, I've always followed him. I am working hard on my batting and whenever I get a chance, I will try to prove myself as a batsman to the world"

"The whole team is missing Hasan Ali because he's a jolly person and keeps joking around in the dressing room which keeps the morale high in team"

"The SL players are new but I have played Under-19 with them and also played with some of them on a Pakistan A tour. As a bowling unit, they are just missing Lakmal but amongst batting, they do have some 2nd choice players. But they are youngsters and they will try to perform well and make room for themselves in the team, it's difficult because you haven't seen them much at the international level"

"When I play Test cricket, I play as a batting all-rounder so I will try to keep improving so I can do well for the team"

"I have played with Misbah bhai and under Vicky bhai's coaching so they understand my psyche. We have done some work together"

"Cricket has changed now, even if you get 3/50 it can be good for the team, I am an attacking option for the team so I try to get the opposition out. My economy in ODI cricket is good"

"It's encouraging for us as a nation to see SL coming, specially for youngsters because we never saw any international team coming here for ODIs before. It's a great opportunity"

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Question: How are you feeling without your friend Hassan Ali. Are you missing him?<br><br>Shadab Khan "We are friends but you are making it sound like we are husband and wife"<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PAKvSL?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PAKvSL</a> <a href="https://t.co/tVrApWxTPv">pic.twitter.com/tVrApWxTPv</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1178323178000715776?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 29, 2019</a></blockquote>
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[Saj]

Very honest of him to admit that his performances haven't been up to the mark in ODIs recently.

It's good that he is not ignoring the fact and it's now up to him to ensure that there is some improvement.

 

[Abdulm123]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Question: How are you feeling without your friend Hassan Ali. Are you missing him?<br><br>Shadab Khan "We are friends but you are making it sound like we are husband and wife"<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PAKvSL?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PAKvSL</a> <a href="https://t.co/tVrApWxTPv">pic.twitter.com/tVrApWxTPv</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1178323178000715776?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 29, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Watching Pakistani press conferences are such a waste of time, my little brother can ask much better question than these so called "journalists", where do they get their licenses from?

 

[Justcrazy]

Time and again the excuse is same. Shadab is overrated as a bowler in OD . He does not have the temperament nor conmtrol to be a genuine bowler who can give 10 good overs. He can be a utility package , who can bat and field as well.

 

[saeed5646]

Glad he is admitting his below par performances in odi cricket which pakistani player very rarely admits .

Saw improvement in his bowling during worldcup hopefully he will improve further

 

[Mamoon]

A nothing player who has been badly exposed after the early minnow-bashing. Can’t bat or bowl against decent sides and is only good for over-acting in the field.

 

[Markhor]

The phrase is bits and pieces.

 

[DRsohail]

A nothing player who has been badly exposed after the early minnow-bashing. Can’t bat or bowl against decent sides and is only good for over-acting in the field.

Bowled decently in WC. can not bat yes,by no means an alrounder.

 

[Mueez]

He outbowled Rashid Khan, Chahal and Kuldeep in the World Cup if I’m not wrong, but still he is overrated.

 

[PakPremi]

Not overrated at all as a mini all rounder fits the bill perfectly. More useful as a bowler than likes of Hardik Pandaya, but not as a good batsman. Bowled well in the world cup and was missed in the game against Australia.

 

[Pakhs]

Bowled decently in WC. can not bat yes,by no means an alrounder.

He does have 3 consecutive 50's in tests in England so he can bat but was out of form during WC.

 

[Mamoon]

He outbowled Rashid Khan, Chahal and Kuldeep in the World Cup if I’m not wrong, but still he is overrated.

The World Cup was quite disastrous for spinners, which is why the gap between the top spinners and the mediocre ones wasn’t obvious. Rashid, Kuldeep and Chahal are several levels above him.

 

[Mamoon]

What on earth is a mini all-rounder? Is this a new category to justify bits and pieces players?

 

[SensiblePakFan]

Need to give usama mir and some other spinners a few games to make shadab really work hard.

 

[Mean&Green]

A nothing player who has been badly exposed after the early minnow-bashing. Can’t bat or bowl against decent sides and is only good for over-acting in the field.

ur hate for the kid is cringeworthy he out bowled your little dynamite kuldeep at the world cup and every other leg spinner so keep on hating and he will keep on proving you wrong.

 

[Danyaalr01]

The World Cup was quite disastrous for spinners, which is why the gap between the top spinners and the mediocre ones wasn’t obvious. Rashid, Kuldeep and Chahal are several levels above him.

Spinners get better with age, Shadab will be better and he will become a world class leg spinner. Kuldeep is 4 years older and has the advantage of being a chinaman bowler, which are quite rare. Shadab performed better at the WC, he had 9 wickets and picked up some very crucial wickets, such as Williamson, Roy, Root, De Kock and Van der Dussen.

It's unfair to compare the two at this stage, lets give Shadab at least 4 more years.

Chahal and Shadab had very similar perfomances, with Shadab slightly ahead with his average lower and also his economy was lower. Chahal picked up 3 more wickets, but that's because he bowled in 2 more innings. Rashid had a really average WC

Shadab had a better world cup than these bowlers you say are several levels above him. Shadab performed when it matterd.

 

[zarak]

A nothing player who has been badly exposed after the early minnow-bashing. Can’t bat or bowl against decent sides and is only good for over-acting in the field.

He is not a nothing player, he is a young guy with potential. If he is honest with himself he can evolve. No need to make blanket statements like "nothing player".

 

[PakPremi]

What on earth is a mini all-rounder? Is this a new category to justify bits and pieces players?

Hatdik Pandaya, Woakes and not Stokes

 

[PakPremi]

The World Cup was quite disastrous for spinners, which is why the gap between the top spinners and the mediocre ones wasn’t obvious. Rashid, Kuldeep and Chahal are several levels above him.

Excuses for specialist world beaters and non for so called bits and pieces player just because he is Pakistani.

 

[Danyaalr01]

Hatdik Pandaya, Woakes and not Stokes

I would take Stokes out and add Kedar Jadhav.

 

[PakPremi]

I would take Stokes out and add Kedar Jadhav.

I meant Stokes is proper all rounder others like woakes, hardik pandya are atleast decent in one discipline and useful in others just like Shadab who is decent in bowling and useful in lower end batting.

 

[Danyaalr01]

I meant Stokes is proper all rounder others like woakes, hardik pandya are atleast decent in one discipline and useful in others just like Shadab who is decent in bowling and useful in lower end batting.

Sorry I misread, thought you said that Stokes was a bits and pieces cricketer

 

[MenInG]

Being smashed a bit so performance pretty ordinary thus far.

 

[Mamoon]

Always was and always will be a nothing cricketer. Please don’t respect the likes of Rashid, Kuldeep, Chahal etc. by comparing him to them. They are and always will be miles ahead.

 

[Mamoon]

His apologists make me laugh.

 

[Saj]

Having Sarfaraz as skipper and wicket-keeper isn't helping him at all.

 

[Sarfarazian92]

Will be dropped soon.

Needs to bowl more in domestic cricket.

 

[Savak]

This is the problem with leg spinners, either they are effective or they go for plenty, there is not much in the middle consistently.

 

[Bewal Express]

Hasnt bowled rubbish, spun the leg spinner sharply, which is a good sign but the SL are hitting him hard.

 

[Saj]

Hasnt bowled rubbish, spun the leg spinner sharply, which is a good sign but the SL are hitting him hard.

Plenty of rubbish from him.

76 runs in 9.5 overs doesn't happen by accident.

 

[PakPremi]

Will be dropped soon.

Needs to bowl more in domestic cricket.

No chance of that.

 

[aloo paratha]

He's done fairly well so far. Had a fairly decent world cup. He's 21, if you can't see the talent in him you're blind

 

[Markhor]

Picked up two wickets from the batsmen slogging. And this against Sri Lanka C.

Mediocre like his mate Faheem.

 

[The Viper]

Wow really poor from Shadab.

Really thought he would feast on SL B

 

[Bewal Express]

Plenty of rubbish from him.

76 runs in 9.5 overs doesn't happen by accident.

Statistically yes and thats what matters but watching him bowl, i thought he bowled ok in terms of his control and more importantly for me he spun his leg spinner quite sharply. If he continues to that, then he will be ok because he had become far too reliant on his googly.

 

[Mercurial]

He shouldn't be discarded. He should be backed.

 

[The_KING]

He's done fairly well so far. Had a fairly decent world cup. He's 21, if you can't see the talent in him you're blind

The only talent he has is the diving like Neymar during fielding.

 

[aloo paratha]

The only talent he has is the diving like Neymar during fielding.

I don't understand why him being a good fielder is being held against him.

 

[CricketingMinds]

Having Sarfaraz as skipper and wicket-keeper isn't helping him at all.

Why do you say so specifically for Shadab??

(Though I agree, Sarfaraz as skipper doesn't help anybody in Pakistan)

 

[The_KING]

I don't understand why him being a good fielder is being held against him.

Because we don't need players who are only good fielders. We need players who can bat well or bowl well or both. There is no place for specialised fielders in any team. I thought after Anwar Ali, we will never see another specialised fielder but then Shadab shows up unfortunately.

 

[The_KING]

Because we don't need players who are only good fielders. We need players who can bat well or bowl well or both. There is no place for specialised fielders in any team. I thought after Anwar Ali, we will never see another specialised fielder but then Shadab shows up unfortunately.

specialist*

 

[Titan24]

While Shadab needs to improve but one should be prepared that leg spinners can go for runs on the day.

Shadab has better economy then both highly hyped Chahal and Yadav and almost same or better average as well if we take out the SA tour of Yadav and Chahal which was an outlier for a spin duo considering the history ODI of cricket.

There are 2,3 finger spinners in Imad, Iftikhar and Haris and thus bit of variety is needed. I dont know many better leggies in Pakistan than Shadab. Usama Mir, Ibtisam Sheikh, Shahzaib Ahmed, Mohammad Irfan etc are all decent but as inconsistent as Shadab on their days.

There is no doubt he needs to improve but he isnt worse than some highly hyped leggies of other countries and there arent absolute better leggies in Pak as well.

 

[aloo paratha]

Because we don't need players who are only good fielders. We need players who can bat well or bowl well or both. There is no place for specialised fielders in any team. I thought after Anwar Ali, we will never see another specialised fielder but then Shadab shows up unfortunately.

Average of 29.3 at an economy of 5 is pretty decent. Yes he needs to improve still but you're acting like he gets figures of 0/75 every game.

 

[Mean&Green]

He will do better Pakistan hasn’t played for a while and those leagues don’t help either

 

[Mamoon]

Average of 29.3 at an economy of 5 is pretty decent. Yes he needs to improve still but you're acting like he gets figures of 0/75 every game.

Remove minnow bashing from his stats and you will realize his true worth as a bowler.

 

[Forum363]

Remove minnow bashing from his stats and you will realize his true worth as a bowler.

He can only play what’s in front of him. A larger sample size is ofcourse needed but just as you can’t call him a world beater based on his performance so far, it would be completely ridiculous to say he is rubbish.

In the most important series he played (the World Cup) in tough conditions, he out-performed his peers with the ball.

He also has a number of international 50’s, some of which have come after a collapse. And ofcourse his fielding is brilliant.

All this while he’s only 20 and clearly still developing his game.

I expect him to be the core of the team in all formats over the next decade, IF he continues to work hard and improve his game. Ofcourse if he goes the usual way of Pakistani talent eg Jamshed, Umar Akmal, Raza Hassan etc then that’s a different story.

 

[Mamoon]

While Shadab needs to improve but one should be prepared that leg spinners can go for runs on the day.

Shadab has better economy then both highly hyped Chahal and Yadav and almost same or better average as well if we take out the SA tour of Yadav and Chahal which was an outlier for a spin duo considering the history ODI of cricket.

There are 2,3 finger spinners in Imad, Iftikhar and Haris and thus bit of variety is needed. I dont know many better leggies in Pakistan than Shadab. Usama Mir, Ibtisam Sheikh, Shahzaib Ahmed, Mohammad Irfan etc are all decent but as inconsistent as Shadab on their days.

There is no doubt he needs to improve but he isnt worse than some highly hyped leggies of other countries and there arent absolute better leggies in Pak as well.

It is not about South Africa only. Kuldeep and Chahal have far better returns against the top 5 sides compared to Shadab who averages almost 40. He is levels below them and probably won’t even get into India A.

Pakistan will go absolutely nowhere with him as the frontline spinner. He is simply not good enough for this role, and on top of that his batting is awful in ODIs. Doesn’t fit into any role or position.

Even a past his prime 40 year old Hafeez is still far more useful player if he bats at 5. He cannot do worse with the ball and is a 100x times better batsman.

 

[Saj]

Why do you say so specifically for Shadab??

(Though I agree, Sarfaraz as skipper doesn't help anybody in Pakistan)

Field-placings, missed stumpings, dropped catches and more.

 

[Mamoon]

He can only play what’s in front of him. A larger sample size is ofcourse needed but just as you can’t call him a world beater based on his performance so far, it would be completely ridiculous to say he is rubbish.

In the most important series he played (the World Cup) in tough conditions, he out-performed his peers with the ball.

He also has a number of international 50’s, some of which have come after a collapse. And ofcourse his fielding is brilliant.

All this while he’s only 20 and clearly still developing his game.

I expect him to be the core of the team in all formats over the next decade, IF he continues to work hard and improve his game. Ofcourse if he goes the usual way of Pakistani talent eg Jamshed, Umar Akmal, Raza Hassan etc then that’s a different story.

He has played enough cricket in the last three years for his poor returns against the top sides to be a cause for concern. Moreover, he has been fast-tracked into the side as if he is a generational talent. What is so special about him anyway, and what does he have that the likes of Gohar, Asghar etc. do not have?

As far as his batting is concerned, it is abysmal in ODIs. His strike rate is lower than Misbah’s and he has minimal hitting ability. He has done okay in Tests with the bat though.

International cricket is not exactly the place for developing players, especially when your are a spinner in an Asian team. We need to ask ourselves - is he ready or is he good enough to lead Pakistan’s spin attack? Do we honestly see him winning games for Pakistan in these conditions? His performance today or his performance in the Asia Cup last year showed how out of depth he is when it comes to playing as a front-line spinner.

He needs to be dropped from the team and put in the hard yards in F/C cricket. Leg-spin has a steep learning curve and someone like Yasir Shah bowled for years and years before he became Test class. Shadab has not deserved the amount of chances that he has had. He is still riding on the second edition of PSL and the West Indies series that followed, but he has worldly proved himself since and he has even flopped in the PSL in the last two editions.

If others don’t do better than him, by all means keep selecting him. However, Pakistan must not accept the notion that he is the best spinner in the country as for as Limited Overs are concerned. If that is the case, it is a very alarming situation because he is quite mediocre. Misbah is well-versed with domestic cricket so I hope he will make the right call unlike Mickey, whose unwavering faith in Shadab and Faheem was irrational.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Shadab and Faheem have the same issue. Their bowling is good enough for an all-rounder but their batting is worse than that of a specialist bowler. You want someone at #7 and #8 position who can score quick 20-30 runs at 140+ SR. As bowler alone, both are not good enough to be on the team.

 

[gazza619]

Shadab and Faheem have the same issue. Their bowling is good enough for an all-rounder but their batting is worse than that of a specialist bowler. You want someone at #7 and #8 position who can score quick 20-30 runs at 140+ SR. As bowler alone, both are not good enough to be on the team.

Shadab’s game has declined overall, both in bowling and batting. Very disappointed. Whatever hard work he has put in has not been good enough, and I hope he works harder. He has very good wrists and can bowl at good pace and bounce.

 

[Mean&Green]

Remove minnow bashing from his stats and you will realize his true worth as a bowler.

Yeah like kuldeep and chahal have only played Australia and England right lol India plays Sri Lanka and West Indies the most you just hate this kid beyond anything it must be something personal that you envy him so much you don’t hate anyone else in the team except for this guy like it’s just sad. Ps I’m happy you were put in your place when the admin removed your garbage of an essay that you wrote to hate on Pakistan.

 

[Titan24]

It is not about South Africa only. Kuldeep and Chahal have far better returns against the top 5 sides compared to Shadab who averages almost 40. He is levels below them and probably won’t even get into India A.

Pakistan will go absolutely nowhere with him as the frontline spinner. He is simply not good enough for this role, and on top of that his batting is awful in ODIs. Doesn’t fit into any role or position.

Even a past his prime 40 year old Hafeez is still far more useful player if he bats at 5. He cannot do worse with the ball and is a 100x times better batsman.

Sample size for Shadab against top sides is quite low.

- He hasnt played a single ODI match against Aus
- He has played just 2 against Eng(3 wkts at avg of 34)
- Against NZ he has played 9 matches (11 wkts at avg of 28)
- Against SA in SA he has struggled, overall he has played 7 matches (8 wkts at an avg of 40)

Shadab has played 18 matched against SENA countries and it gives a bowling average of around 33. Not to forget he is yet to get opportunities to play Aus, Eng and SA in subcontinental conditions.

If we include India then as you have said average deteriorates but, their batsmen play spin well with almost no exception so its difficult to judge Shadab in those 5 matches. It has to be admitted he fared poorly against India but I doubt any other spinner of Pak would have fared any better and not to forget Kuldeep and Chahal dont have to play against their own batsmen. Still if we include that 23 ODIs isnt that big a sample size.

While there is no denying Shadab needs to improve but leg spin is a difficult art and there arent many leg spinners putting their hands up in Pakistan. Only thing that can be done is to hope either Shadab improves or someone from domestic really grows into a prospect.

 

[DRsohail]

He has played enough cricket in the last three years for his poor returns against the top sides to be a cause for concern. Moreover, he has been fast-tracked into the side as if he is a generational talent. What is so special about him anyway, and what does he have that the likes of Gohar, Asghar etc. do not have?

As far as his batting is concerned, it is abysmal in ODIs. His strike rate is lower than Misbah’s and he has minimal hitting ability. He has done okay in Tests with the bat though.

International cricket is not exactly the place for developing players, especially when your are a spinner in an Asian team. We need to ask ourselves - is he ready or is he good enough to lead Pakistan’s spin attack? Do we honestly see him winning games for Pakistan in these conditions? His performance today or his performance in the Asia Cup last year showed how out of depth he is when it comes to playing as a front-line spinner.

He needs to be dropped from the team and put in the hard yards in F/C cricket. Leg-spin has a steep learning curve and someone like Yasir Shah bowled for years and years before he became Test class. Shadab has not deserved the amount of chances that he has had. He is still riding on the second edition of PSL and the West Indies series that followed, but he has worldly proved himself since and he has even flopped in the PSL in the last two editions.

If others don’t do better than him, by all means keep selecting him. However, Pakistan must not accept the notion that he is the best spinner in the country as for as Limited Overs are concerned. If that is the case, it is a very alarming situation because he is quite mediocre. Misbah is well-versed with domestic cricket so I hope he will make the right call unlike Mickey, whose unwavering faith in Shadab and Faheem was irrational.

Zafar Gohar is making his case stronger by perfroming with the bat and ball.Wait and see this actor will be dropped soon.

 

[Bewal Express]

As I said earlier Shadab bowled OK but the stats were bad. He leg spun the ball sharply, and there were no terrible full tosses or half trackers but the negative was obviously that his ball was too easy to hit by the SL Batsman. When he tosses up the ball, it's a couple of feet too full and the Batsman don't have to come out of their crease to hit him, and that's his biggest thing to work on.

 

[Titan24]

Zafar Gohar is making his case stronger by perfroming with the bat and ball.Wait and see this actor will be dropped soon.

Personally I really like Zafar Gohar and is a must in UAE Tests to support Yasir, while he should play as the only specialist spinner in overseas tests. However, in ODIs having 2-3 left arm orthodox spinners in the squad Imad, Nawaz and Zafar and playing two of those can be a bit one dimensional. In modern day LOI cricket one unorthodox or a leg spinner (Atleast in the squad) is important. Though I would still like to see Zafar getting opportunities when possible in LOIs as well.

 

[moghul]

Was a very bright prospect in the beginning , then too much T20 cricket took its toll on him. Leg spinner cannot be a defensive bowler but Shadab Khan has become one, hence he is neither taking wickets nor saving runs in ODIs.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Seen bits of him recently in the canadian t20 tour where his batting was half decent compared to his bowling
The facet going for him is that he always plays with a smile on his face just like younus khan and always seems to be completely focused
He is a liability in odis with the ball and the Sri Lankan seconds took him to the cleaners today

Not sure why Pakistan think shadab khan can succeed where yasir shah failed in odis

 

[DRsohail]

Personally I really like Zafar Gohar and is a must in UAE Tests to support Yasir, while he should play as the only specialist spinner in overseas tests. However, in ODIs having 2-3 left arm orthodox spinners in the squad Imad, Nawaz and Zafar and playing two of those can be a bit one dimensional. In modern day LOI cricket one unorthodox or a leg spinner (Atleast in the squad) is important. Though I would still like to see Zafar getting opportunities when possible in LOIs as well.

Imad is not a spinner at all .hope Zafar comes in for one of them and Nawaz is gonna fail its sure.He does not belong to this level.

 

[Rana]

He needs to be dropped like his mate Hassan Ali.

 

[Rana]

Was a very bright prospect in the beginning , then too much T20 cricket took its toll on him. Leg spinner cannot be a defensive bowler but Shadab Khan has become one, hence he is neither taking wickets nor saving runs in ODIs.

More like Instagram and DM slide ins took its toll.

He is more obsessed with his social media image than actually turning up for Pakistan

 

[ManFan]

The buddy-quartet (Faheem, Hassan, Shadab, and Fakhar Zaman) needs to be booted.

 

[sshakir411]

I feel someone should tie Shadab to a chair and make him watch Shane Warne's test spells endlessly. Hopefully he'll learn the art of leg spin after a few days.

 

[Hyperion66]

Same people who believe Shadab is as good as Kuldeep or Chahal once believed Hasan was better than Bumrah and even worse Fahim was an all-rounder, so yeah your opinions are funny and all but don't really matter.

I personally think Shadab has a much more potential as a pure bat, should stop bowling for the heck of it and solely focus on batting to have a longer career because right now even the phrase bits and pieces seems too generous for him.

 

[topspin]

Same people who believe Shadab is as good as Kuldeep or Chahal once believed Hasan was better than Bumrah and even worse Fahim was an all-rounder, so yeah your opinions are funny and all but don't really matter.

I personally think Shadab has a much more potential as a pure bat, should stop bowling for the heck of it and solely focus on batting to have a longer career because right now even the phrase bits and pieces seems too generous for him.

Shadab's SR in ODIs is in the 60s - but then again you do have an appetite for mediocre defensive batsmen such as Imam.

 

[Hyperion66]

Perhaps a bit off topic but I don't understand Pak and BD's fascination with bits and pieces players who are equally awful in both departments. This hunt for 'All-rounder' to enhance a mythical batting depth mostly results in a surge of mediocre players and ruins the balance of a line up. Gives the fan some sort of false hope for sometime only to ground them back to reality and the cycle repeats.

Point is if you don't have a proper all-rounder you play only specialists until you do, period.

 

[Hyperion66]

Shadab's SR in ODIs is in the 60s - but then again you do have an appetite for mediocre defensive batsmen such as Imam.

Has got the basics right, SR can be improved as he has age on his side. Let me know if you need me to dumb it down any further.

 

[MMHS]

Perhaps a bit off topic but I don't understand Pak and BD's fascination with bits and pieces players who are equally awful in both departments. This hunt for 'All-rounder' to enhance a mythical batting depth mostly results in a surge of mediocre players and ruins the balance of a line up. Gives the fan some sort of false hope for sometime only to ground them back to reality and the cycle repeats.

Point is if you don't have a proper all-rounder you play only specialists until you do, period.

This one I can explain - we don’t have enough quality specialist bowlers to make the cut on bowling merit, therefore for LO cricket the compromise choice is based on “contribution” factor. When he was fit, Taskin played every game and even now we try to play 3 specialist bowlers. A little advantage is that Shakib, Saif makes the cut on bowling merit, Miraz as well in Asian condition. Outside, we do play 3 specialist bowlers from whatever available, sometimes four, when Shakib is absent. But, it doesn’t help much if your specialist bowler bats like Mo Asif & bowls like Anwar Ali - playing “all-rounder” isn’t a choice, rather obligation.

For PAK, it’s the side effect of English/SAF coach - most of whom are fascinated by the “contribution margin” of a player, particularly in LO. It was Woolmar that started to pack SAF team with “marginal utility” concept - at extreme level, it resulted picking Pat Symcox & Derek Crooks over Allen Donald in a WC QF (& BC paid back with interest). That tactics availed SAF a 80%+ success rate in ODIs, but backfired on crunch games, where you need specialists when chips are down.

Bob carried that strategy to PAK, which resulted into dropping of Saq, Muss, Arshad... one by one for Afridi, MoHa, Malik...... and picking up pacers like Rana Naved with an eye for a little batting contribution. His mentee Arthur carried the legacy in SAF team an that worked, because of the cricket culture developed there. It badly misfired in PAK because,, as a unit PCT is individualistic - can’t play as a combination unit where 2+2 makes 5. Mohsin Khan with all his antics, did one thing correct in Test matches - picked 2 specialist spinners & 4 bowlers on pure bowling merit, result was there.

 

[Danyaalr01]

Shadab's SR in ODIs is in the 60s - but then again you do have an appetite for mediocre defensive batsmen such as Imam.

That is because when he bats, it's usually at the end, so facing those few balls won't do much for his strike rate, plus he's not a big hitter. The longer innings he's played are usually in situations where the top order has collapsed and he has to stay out there, all three of his fifties were in such situations.

 

[IAJ]

This one I can explain - we don’t have enough quality specialist bowlers to make the cut on bowling merit, therefore for LO cricket the compromise choice is based on “contribution” factor. When he was fit, Taskin played every game and even now we try to play 3 specialist bowlers. A little advantage is that Shakib, Saif makes the cut on bowling merit, Miraz as well in Asian condition. Outside, we do play 3 specialist bowlers from whatever available, sometimes four, when Shakib is absent. But, it doesn’t help much if your specialist bowler bats like Mo Asif & bowls like Anwar Ali - playing “all-rounder” isn’t a choice, rather obligation.

For PAK, it’s the side effect of English/SAF coach - most of whom are fascinated by the “contribution margin” of a player, particularly in LO. It was Woolmar that started to pack SAF team with “marginal utility” concept - at extreme level, it resulted picking Pat Symcox & Derek Crooks over Allen Donald in a WC QF (& BC paid back with interest). That tactics availed SAF a 80%+ success rate in ODIs, but backfired on crunch games, where you need specialists when chips are down.

Bob carried that strategy to PAK, which resulted into dropping of Saq, Muss, Arshad... one by one for Afridi, MoHa, Malik...... and picking up pacers like Rana Naved with an eye for a little batting contribution. His mentee Arthur carried the legacy in SAF team an that worked, because of the cricket culture developed there. It badly misfired in PAK because,, as a unit PCT is individualistic - can’t play as a combination unit where 2+2 makes 5. Mohsin Khan with all his antics, did one thing correct in Test matches - picked 2 specialist spinners & 4 bowlers on pure bowling merit, result was there.

But Pakistan have had decent allrounders before as well so this goes back to Imran Khan, at least. Then we had Wasim, Afridi, Abdur Razzaq and Azhar Mahmood. But nothing after them.

 

[MMHS]

But Pakistan have had decent allrounders before as well so this goes back to Imran Khan, at least. Then we had Wasim, Afridi, Abdur Razzaq and Azhar Mahmood. But nothing after them.

I think, there are two reasons for that.

First one is that, you develop proper all-rounders through FC system. An all-rounder needs to have proper game time for both of his skills to develop and that can't be done in 100 overs game, let alone 40. No one is going to give a 23 years youngster the chance to bat at 5 and bowl among top 3 in a single innings game. Oblate, PAK cricket is dominated by T20, which isn't helping players to develop the multi dimensional skills. Neither it's helping them to develop physical endurance. Each of the 4 all-rounders in 1980s used to bowl over 1,000 overs in Counties and another 1,000+ overs in other games in a calendar year, then they batted at 5-6 and gave equal or more efforts in nets.

Second issue (the main one), is that how do you develop an all-rounder? Of the two core skills, batting is more process oriented, almost a function of how much time you spend in nets under good coach/instructors. Obviously, becoming a 40+ average batsman will take lot more than net time, but it's not a big deal to improve a 12 average bowler to develop into may be a 23 average batsman. It doesn't happen other way - it won't happen so easily that a 48 average bowler will become a 29 average bowler through efforts and net time - he needs skills and physic as well for that.

Historically, there are two fundamental ways of picking/developing all-rounders - the English way & the Aussie way. In England, game was/is played on much bowling friendly conditions, therefore in every County you would have seen few players (in the mold of Woakes, Moeen, Rashid, Ben Curren... in present days) who would have a Test career like 2 wickets/Test at 40 and 40 runs/Test at 25 .... time to time these figures might change from 45 to 30 or 25 to 20; but the idea is same - bat at 6-7-8, bowl 23-25 overs/Test; 3/4 of them, you have a very good County standard XI.

AUS was totally different - they play cricket in uncompromising conditions and you'll be slaughtered alive unless you are good at one skill. Therefore, Aussies have picked almost always a 6+4 combination. And, they kept pushing their bowlers to improve batting - must improve to raise your 10-12 batting average towards 18-19, or next bowler will replace you. In Australian cricket, there are very few all-rounders who had survived long - but man, those who survived are - Giffen, Noble, Gregory, Armstorng, Benaud, Miller, IW Johnson, Davidson, Gilmore. Now, Mitch Marsh has made it as all-rounder and took a 5for in his return. Players like Greg Mathus, Simon O'Donnel, Shane Lee, Ian Hervey, Watson hardly had a career with AUS as All-rounder - may be 3-4 years max.

Bowling all-rounders are the MVP of cricket, more so in Test cricket. A player who can make the XI on bowling merit and can add 35-38 runs with bat under crisis are the game changers. In Australian context, you are not an All-rounder unless you make it for bowling and unless you are someone like Spofforth, Ted McDonald, Grimmet, Garth Mackenzi, DK Lillee, Reid, McDermott, McGrath, McGill ..... you won't last longer as a specialist bowler. This has given AUS the ultimate Champions of Test cricket - Bill O'Reiley, RR Lindwall, Warne, Gillespee, Lee, Johnson .... and now Strac, Cummins - players who can win Test matches with ball, but can take score from 141/7 to 256 as well. There are several "potential" bits & pieces all-rounders have moved from this all-round fallacy in AUS cricket, either they have left the game or have shifted to specialist batsman who makes the team on batting merit and can bowl part-time - RB Simpson, Doug Walters, K Stackpole, Greg Chappel, Steve/Mark Waugh, Moody, Watson, Maxwell ...... Steve had 40+ wickets in his first 25 Tests including 3 5fors, for an average under 35, but his batting average also was under 35 that time - he won't have played beyond 1990, with that initial set of skills.

For PAK's case, I found what in killing is too much focus on LO cricket, now T20 cricket. The examples I gave perfectly can be applied for PAK as well - there were several players with such "All-round" talent; but the successful ones had shifted to a specialist skill. Mazid, Asif opened bowling for PAK in Test, Javed was picked as leg-spinner in 1975, Mudassar won a Test and WSC SF with ball (Against Lloyd's WI) - "All-round" talent was there, but these players moved from becoming "all-rounder", rather took the easier route. Imran didn't.

The desperate need of the hour is to pick bowlers on bowling merit, then roast them to improve batting - PAK is doing opposite - picking bits & pieces players and expecting them to become Imran or Benaud. It'll never happen - it didn't happen in past as well. For example, this guy Yasir plays 5-6 Test every year and nothing else (for PAK) - he should have been beaten flat out to improve his batting up to a No. 8, if not 7 level batsman... he has moved to other direction and No. 11 looks high for him now. With proper focus, Mo Amir, Wahab could have been very good bowling all-rounders - PAK tried that out of Anwar Ali, Faheem Ashraf, Imad & now Shadab. Won't happen - all the players you listed (add Intekhab, Saqline as well), were proper bowlers (may be Azhar wasn't, but he started brilliant with bat, didn't build on that) - started career as bowler and then developed batting through hard work. Our Shakib also debuted as No. 9 for that BD team .......

Ideally, instead of these two (you know whom), what PCB/Arthur should have tried is to develop Gohar/Yasir & Amir as all-rounders because their core was bowling first - as I wrote in his thread, Sadab's only chance was to focus on bowling and make his spot permanent as the lead leggi, then he could have added batting on it - unfortunately, T20 era's demand is different : 4 overs and 12 ball 23.......

 

[Markhor]

What would be better for Shadab's development ?

Playing a full season of FC cricket where he gains experience of bowling long spells, or playing against Sri Lanka C in a meaningless bilateral series ?

 

[badsha001]

What would be better for Shadab's development ?

Playing a full season of FC cricket where he gains experience of bowling long spells, or playing against Sri Lanka C in a meaningless bilateral series ?

get off the social media and hit the nets like steve smith does.