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[Report] M Arthur rues selfish approach of players to play for themselves rather than for the team

I think from the way Babar and Sharjeel batted, it was pretty clear that they never wanted to chase the 370 score right from start. It looked like the management felt that the target was beyond their reach against what was probably the best attack in the world and instructed the batsmen to score just beyond 300 and not go for the 370 target.

Even Sharjeel showed much restraint from the previous ODI that their idea was pretty clear. In that case, I don't think you should be blaming any batsman for simply doing what the management instructed and they went beyond 300 in the end actually.
 
I think from the way Babar and Sharjeel batted, it was pretty clear that they never wanted to chase the 370 score right from start. It looked like the management felt that the target was beyond their reach against what was probably the best attack in the world and instructed the batsmen to score just beyond 300 and not go for the 370 target.

Even Sharjeel showed much restraint from the previous ODI that their idea was pretty clear. In that case, I don't think you should be blaming any batsman for simply doing what the management instructed and they went beyond 300 in the end actually.

They were looking to get within striking distance. Pakistan don't have the batting lineup to go guns blazing from the start. The intent was to setup a platform to launch from. Pakistan reached 200 in 34 overs. If at that stage Sharjeel is there with Babar, it becomes a different game.
 
They were looking to get within striking distance. Pakistan don't have the batting lineup to go guns blazing from the start. The intent was to setup a platform to launch from. Pakistan reached 200 in 34 overs. If at that stage Sharjeel is there with Babar, it becomes a different game.

If I'm not wrong, the RR crept upto 9 when Sharjeel was at the crease and went past 10 even when Babar was at the crease.

Pakistan simply don't have players down the order to chase a target when the RR goes beyond 8 an over, there was little chance of a chase happening when it went past 9, never mind 10. It just appeared to me they wanted to use the dead rubber as a batting practice and try to make 300+ against a very very good attack. It wasn't such a bad idea tbh, they might well have collapsed for a low score had they decided to go for 370..
 
If I'm not wrong, the RR crept upto 9 when Sharjeel was at the crease and went past 10 even when Babar was at the crease.

Pakistan simply don't have players down the order to chase a target when the RR goes beyond 8 an over, there was little chance of a chase happening when it went past 9, never mind 10. It just appeared to me they wanted to use the dead rubber as a batting practice and try to make 300+ against a very very good attack. It wasn't such a bad idea tbh, they might well have collapsed for a low score had they decided to go for 370..

Agree. They were never within the striking distance according to me as well. If Sharjeel had lasted long then maybe. Babar was relying on an imaginary middle order with lots of imaginary fire power. A directionless innings if the intent was to win.
 
Mian played poorly in the 4th game but had a much better series than Rizwan and Imad and probably Umar too.

Actually, I rated Rizwan high for his keeping - if he matched PAK's other fielders; another 10-15% runs would have added to Aussies total.

MoHa won a MoM in the only win - good, bad, ugly - but that adds lots of point (though for 2nd ODI my mom was Malik). In first 2 matches, Imad was really good with ball & bat as well only time he batted; deserved higher than the others - in between B or B+, but I thought he was slightly better than Hasan, who was better than other 3.
 
Actually, I rated Rizwan high for his keeping - if he matched PAK's other fielders; another 10-15% runs would have added to Aussies total.

MoHa won a MoM in the only win - good, bad, ugly - but that adds lots of point (though for 2nd ODI my mom was Malik). In first 2 matches, Imad was really good with ball & bat as well only time he batted; deserved higher than the others - in between B or B+, but I thought he was slightly better than Hasan, who was better than other 3.

So:
It's your grading and you think Malik should have been the mom, but in your own grading you gave moha the extra points even he was wrongly (in your opinion ) given mom officially.
What a weird logic.

It's your grading, and if you believe that player x should be given mom and for mom, you think that extra points should be given, then give to player x and not to y.

I am not questioning your grading (I believe in freedom of grading on PP ), but worried about your reasoning.
 
If I'm not wrong, the RR crept upto 9 when Sharjeel was at the crease and went past 10 even when Babar was at the crease.

Pakistan simply don't have players down the order to chase a target when the RR goes beyond 8 an over, there was little chance of a chase happening when it went past 9, never mind 10. It just appeared to me they wanted to use the dead rubber as a batting practice and try to make 300+ against a very very good attack. It wasn't such a bad idea tbh, they might well have collapsed for a low score had they decided to go for 370..

Which is why I don't blame them. Chasing 370 against an attack like this is a monumental task. It was never going to happen with this lineup. Heck, I doubt any lineup would be able to do it. By setting a platform and keeping wickets in hand, at least they gave themselves a chance for a late surge. If Sharjeel is there at 200/1, we'd probably reach it 2 overs quicker. 170 in 18 overs with 9 wickets in hand, now suddenly the likes of Hafeez, Malik, Umar, Imad don't have to score big, quickfire 20-30 become good contributions while one of our main two anchor, it becomes a T20 game with two of our best batsmen set.
 
So:
It's your grading and you think Malik should have been the mom, but in your own grading you gave moha the extra points even he was wrongly (in your opinion ) given mom officially.
What a weird logic.

It's your grading, and if you believe that player x should be given mom and for mom, you think that extra points should be given, then give to player x and not to y.

I am not questioning your grading (I believe in freedom of grading on PP ), but worried about your reasoning.


I think, I rated in overall series; where MoHa had triple role to play - he led the side well in 2 matches; he bowled reasonably & was one of the better players in the win. Besides, Malik's innings in 4th ODI was a major discount for him. In between 2; relatively MoHa had better contribution over the course of the series. But, none was good - to me a per series is B; only 5 players were at or above per

SK, Babar, Amir, Hasan & Imad.
 
I think, I rated in overall series; where MoHa had triple role to play - he led the side well in 2 matches; he bowled reasonably & was one of the better players in the win. Besides, Malik's innings in 4th ODI was a major discount for him. In between 2; relatively MoHa had better contribution over the course of the series. But, none was good - to me a per series is B; only 5 players were at or above per

SK, Babar, Amir, Hasan & Imad.

I did not question your grading.
I question your argument about mom in 2nd odi...explained above.
 
Hard to say without reading the report but I think the PCB is forced to go back to the seniors on the basis of Mickey's discussion and was originally planning on inducting youngsters for the WI tour beforehand.

That's disgusting.

If that actually is the case, quite a bit of respect lost for Mickey.

Hope PCB overrules Mickey here.
 
That's disgusting.

If that actually is the case, quite a bit of respect lost for Mickey.

Hope PCB overrules Mickey here.
PCB will select youngsters now for the next tour after seeing this report. Before PCB was thinking of selecting seniors for the next tour.
 
Also [MENTION=139754]New Yorker[/MENTION] . if you consider the required run rate when Babar and Sharjeel were batting.. it was around 8... with Babar playing 4 dot balls per over then taking a single on the 5th ball..

After Sharjeel was gone required RR was 9

By the time Babar reached his 50 the RR was around 10... fielders at the boundary, Babar unconcerned about his strike rate... reaching his 50 in 75 balls which is SR of 66, milking his singles

Smith was smart he allowed easy singles as long as the boundary didn't come... Babar obliged, only hitting 3 4's and a six in his 80 odd.. scoring singles not taking the initiative at all

Only before reaching his 100, he scored 3 boundaries, reached his 100, but got out the next ball... that's not taking an initiative, that is being selfish..

The game was well and truly done, when Babar had reached his 50, and the RR had gone upto 10..

Don't think is current anymore, but I just logged back on after some time off and found these notices...

Would you not agree that Babar is one of the brightest prospects around, not only for Pakistan?

I don't think it is a good idea to drop your top ranked ODI bat for scoring slowly.

You drop whoever else is scoring slowly.
 
Don't think is current anymore, but I just logged back on after some time off and found these notices...

Would you not agree that Babar is one of the brightest prospects around, not only for Pakistan?

I don't think it is a good idea to drop your top ranked ODI bat for scoring slowly.

You drop whoever else is scoring slowly.

If he is scoring slowly, whatever system is ranking him high is wrong. That's the bigger issue.
 
If he is scoring slowly, whatever system is ranking him high is wrong. That's the bigger issue.

Your obsession with strike rate makes you blind with every other aspect of cricket and thats a sad position to take. The best in the game today - Smith, Kohli etc strike a balance between both as well as risk vs reward. Babar is not slower than someone like Kohli at this stage of his career. However, what he has displayed is brilliant temperament and match awareness on multiple occasions along with the capacity of risk free shots and strike rotation. He definitely has a bright future ahead of him
 
Your obsession with strike rate makes you blind with every other aspect of cricket and thats a sad position to take. The best in the game today - Smith, Kohli etc strike a balance between both as well as risk vs reward. Babar is not slower than someone like Kohli at this stage of his career. However, what he has displayed is brilliant temperament and match awareness on multiple occasions along with the capacity of risk free shots and strike rotation. He definitely has a bright future ahead of him

Even if that's true, Kohli's level of improvement is utterly unprecedented and expecting this will happen for any other cricketer is unrealistic.

Second, Babar DOES NOT rotate strike. He does play risk free, but even in this PSL you could see some glorious boundaries and then 2 or 3 dots such that even though he was barely scoring at 115 SR people thought he was playing well.

And bear in mind, this is with him at his best. You aren't seeing what will happen when he starts having a bad run.
 
Even if that's true, Kohli's level of improvement is utterly unprecedented and expecting this will happen for any other cricketer is unrealistic.

Second, Babar DOES NOT rotate strike. He does play risk free, but even in this PSL you could see some glorious boundaries and then 2 or 3 dots such that even though he was barely scoring at 115 SR people thought he was playing well.

And bear in mind, this is with him at his best. You aren't seeing what will happen when he starts having a bad run.

A purple patch doesn't last for decade. Babar has been tipped as the next big thing for Pakistan back in 2008-2009 when he was 14, and he has always maintained a high average in LA cricket at a high strike rate.

He is far from his best, which is still to come. He's on an upward curve and there is every chance that he can finish as Pakistan's most accomplished batsman in a long time. Of course there is room for improvement, he has been nothing short of fantastic so far. No young Pakistani batsman has looked this good since Yousaf back in the 90's.
 
If he is scoring slowly, whatever system is ranking him high is wrong. That's the bigger issue.

We're on different pages. He's as good or bad as Kohli/Root/Smith I don't care. All I am pointing out is that he is the best Pakistan has, by some distance, with as much potential as we have seen in a batsman in a while. Which means it would be silly, for the PCB, to drop him, for not scoring quickly enough. The correct strategy is to let him grow into the role, and find batsmen who can play around him at a brisker pace. Pity about Sharjeel.
 
Wow, your hate for Tendulkar must be immense:)

The only match where Sachin played selfishly for a century is THAT one vs Bangladesh, his 100th century I think. Otherwise Tendulkar always went after the bowling and a number of his centuries came in losing causes but that was due to the teams incompetence. They are usually in a run-a-ball situation when Tendulkar gets out and the rest of the team just roll over and choke. I remember his 175 vs Aus where 20 runs of 20 balls was required when Tendulkar got out and the rest of the team messed it up :amir2

Bad comparison to Babar. Babar is criticized because he never went after the bowling. Even when the RR crept past 10, he was still playing in his bubble. He took Pakistan to a position where losing was a certainty.
 
The only match where Sachin played selfishly for a century is THAT one vs Bangladesh, his 100th century I think. Otherwise Tendulkar always went after the bowling and a number of his centuries came in losing causes but that was due to the teams incompetence. They are usually in a run-a-ball situation when Tendulkar gets out and the rest of the team just roll over and choke. I remember his 175 vs Aus where 20 runs of 20 balls was required when Tendulkar got out and the rest of the team messed it up :amir2

Bad comparison to Babar. Babar is criticized because he never went after the bowling. Even when the RR crept past 10, he was still playing in his bubble. He took Pakistan to a position where losing was a certainty.

Just 25% of Sachin's International centuries came in vain. And in 99% of them, he scored at an excellent strike rate. Specifically if you consider his ODI tons that went in vain, he scored at more than 100% strike rate in most of them.
 
We're on different pages. He's as good or bad as Kohli/Root/Smith I don't care. All I am pointing out is that he is the best Pakistan has, by some distance, with as much potential as we have seen in a batsman in a while. Which means it would be silly, for the PCB, to drop him, for not scoring quickly enough. The correct strategy is to let him grow into the role, and find batsmen who can play around him at a brisker pace. Pity about Sharjeel.

If he is so good that from 14 years old everyone knows he will be the saviour of Pakistan, than he can be taught how to play aggressively and that's better than letting him do this, especially if he is so good as everyone thinks (which I doubt).
 
Look at Babar Azam playing 1st over as maiden in a playoff T20 match :facepalm: You cannot get more selfish than this.
 
Mickey is all talk. He is utterly useless. Needs to be fired ASAP.
 
Mickey is all talk. He is utterly useless. Needs to be fired ASAP.

Why only Mickey? How about Inzi the revolutionary? Captain?

The prob with Pak fans is that they seek scapegoats.
 
Mickey is all talk. He is utterly useless. Needs to be fired ASAP.

May be his hands are tied, he is not free and independent... has to smh what the selectors and board has to say...initially he was very vocal of the faults and players who he identified as certain duds at work... But now he is more quiet..On his first tour he packed hafeez, told sohail do the hardwork or pack ur bag n go home..
 
The top 3 batted very selfishly today seeing WI as the platform laid for them to cement their places... If i have to rank interms of high selfishness

Rank 1. hafeez
Rank 2. Kamran
Rank 3. Shehzad
 
Why only Mickey? How about Inzi the revolutionary? Captain?

The prob with Pak fans is that they seek scapegoats.

All three are to be blamed.


Inzi for selecting Hafeez in the squad

and

Sarf and Mickey for inducting him in the side
 
really hope Babar follows team players like Sarfi and Malik v2 not players like Hafeez and Shehzad for who personal milestones matter more.
 
Very pleased to see our selfish cricketers stunned today by Windies chasing down the score. After the openers got off to a great start, as usual the following batsmen used that as an opportunity to play safely and build their own average rather than maximise their score potential.

It's a loser attitude which has cost Pakistan so many games in the last few years, but still they are getting away with it. With Sharjeel out of the side, now we are back to the bad old days of batsmen making calculated 50's which are almost a decent rate, but gets blown away by one batsmen from the opposition who will play more aggressively.
 
You could see once Hafeez and Shehzad carefully plodded their way to their fifties, both walked off the pitch as if they had scored matchwinning centuries. No concern that the score might be chased down rather than put out of reach of the Windies, they had got their score and that was all that mattered to them. They will probably both be celebrating with a slap up meal tonight despite the loss.
 
The top 3 batted very selfishly today seeing WI as the platform laid for them to cement their places... If i have to rank interms of high selfishness

Rank 1. hafeez
Rank 2. Kamran
Rank 3. Shehzad

not fan of Kamran but he wasnt selfish, kept it going through out his innings
 
Hafeez and Shahzad are undoubtedly the most selfish players to ever play for Pakistan.

Sarfraz deserves to lose all 3 odis if he plans to send hafeez at 3. This BS senior culture will be the end of our cricket.
 
not fan of Kamran but he wasnt selfish, kept it going through out his innings

People fail to look beyond their bias and hate.

Kami has been no problem at all since our comeback - only contributing positively with decent strike rates.
 
Hafeez and Shehzad are way too slow.

Rameez clearly was spot on today, It's like going back to our time, The 80s.
 
People fail to look beyond their bias and hate.

Kami has been no problem at all since our comeback - only contributing positively with decent strike rates.

I fully expect Kamran to fail come the CT, but at least I know his failures aren't going to derail the entire team like Selfie and Professor. You know if he comes off it will be good for the team. With Shezhad and professor most of the time you are dreading a big score by them
 
Kami and Umar can have many things i-e limited, brainless etc but they dont bat selfishly for personal milestones.
 
Akmal bros have many issues, but they are too dumb to be selfish.

If Arthur has the balls to walk the talk - he'll drop MoHa in next match.
 
Akmal bros have many issues, but they are too dumb to be selfish.

If Arthur has the balls to walk the talk - he'll drop MoHa in next match.

+1 To this. Arthur needs to drop MoHa
 
Akmal bros have many issues, but they are too dumb to be selfish.

If Arthur has the balls to walk the talk - he'll drop MoHa in next match.

I thin they'll end up dropping Imad for Fakhar.
 
Kami and Umar can have many things i-e limited, brainless etc but they dont bat selfishly for personal milestones.

Correct. Their flaws are more of ego and personality. Once on the field, my experience is that they both give 100% however badly they may play on occasion. Criticizing them is justified, but one shouldn't cast aspersions on their character.
 
not fan of Kamran but he wasnt selfish, kept it going through out his innings

he was.. he hits a boundary or just blocks to make a score for himself i think he made 30 dots out of 48 balls that he faced... No wonder why they wont play selfishly because all these 3 making comebacks need runs to be in the team...
 
You also need to have ability to not play selfish(tuk tuk). Many just don't have it. So he should better replace them with those who can.
 
People fail to look beyond their bias and hate.

Kami has been no problem at all since our comeback - only contributing positively with decent strike rates.

Kami will dissapoint in other ways, ie, his rubbish average is a product of his inconsistency. Till then we just have to bear it, if he keeps performing
 
Kami and Umar can have many things i-e limited, brainless etc but they dont bat selfishly for personal milestones.

I do remember Umar Akmal playing a selfish innings in the T20 WC. Can't remember which game but I think it was against NZ.
 
he was.. he hits a boundary or just blocks to make a score for himself i think he made 30 dots out of 48 balls that he faced... No wonder why they wont play selfishly because all these 3 making comebacks need runs to be in the team...

Bhai by that logic Sharjeel was selfish as well
 
I do remember Umar Akmal playing a selfish innings in the T20 WC. Can't remember which game but I think it was against NZ.

Yes it was against NZ,Ahmed Shehzad and Umar Akmal totally killed the momentum that Sharjeel had built due to their pathetic innings in which they were finding it hard to keep a strike rate of 100 in a T20 match that too while chasing a target of over 170.
 
Yes it was against NZ,Ahmed Shehzad and Umar Akmal totally killed the momentum that Sharjeel had built due to their pathetic innings in which they were finding it hard to keep a strike rate of 100 in a T20 match that too while chasing a target of over 170.

Fixer had brought the required run rate down from 9 to around 6. Then Shehzad and Akmal mucked it up.
 
not fan of Kamran but he wasnt selfish, kept it going through out his innings

People fail to look beyond their bias and hate.

Kami has been no problem at all since our comeback - only contributing positively with decent strike rates.

Yes, 'Kami' playing 31 dots out of 48 balls is contributing 'positively'. In the T20I before this ODI, he had played 16 dots out of 22 balls. Shehzad and Hafeez do exactly the same, infact our ODI team does that. Ie dot balls after dot balls and only scoring off boundaries. If you're going to applaud that they whine about our ODI performances?

'Kami' would be surprised he has such ardent supporters. (Not counting pakistanigoneaussie in that bracket)
 
the only word one can use for haffez is pathatic... his unbelieveably selfish innings lost us the game... shehzad has no game plan apart from tring to hit a bad ball for boundry.... its just painful....
 
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Yes, 'Kami' playing 31 dots out of 48 balls is contributing 'positively'. In the T20I before this ODI, he had played 16 dots out of 22 balls. Shehzad and Hafeez do exactly the same, infact our ODI team does that. Ie dot balls after dot balls and only scoring off boundaries. If you're going to applaud that they whine about our ODI performances?

'Kami' would be surprised he has such ardent supporters. (Not counting pakistanigoneaussie in that bracket)

I don't usually speak in favour of Kamran but I don't think his innings was much of an issue. He did OK, did the job that was expected of him in those circumstances.

The number of dots can be accepted if he's making up for it in boundaries, which Kamran did - just about.

The (major) problem is that he will not get such gifts every time (the bowlers bowled some real filth and Holder was bowling a part-timer in the powerplay). And against better, more balanced bowling attacks, we know his level - which is why we need to find top order replacements, somehow, who can do as well or better and can also deal with decent bowlers.

The way Shehzad and Hafeez batted was the biggest issue. You can not lose momentum in such a manner in the middle of your innings, specially considering the standard of the opposition bowlers.
 
I don't usually speak in favour of Kamran but I don't think his innings was much of an issue. He did OK, did the job that was expected of him in those circumstances.

The number of dots can be accepted if he's making up for it in boundaries, which Kamran did - just about.

The (major) problem is that he will not get such gifts every time (the bowlers bowled some real filth and Holder was bowling a part-timer in the powerplay). And against better, more balanced bowling attacks, we know his level - which is why we need to find top order replacements, somehow, who can do as well or better and can also deal with decent bowlers.

The way Shehzad and Hafeez batted was the biggest issue. You can not lose momentum in such a manner in the middle of your innings, specially considering the standard of the opposition bowlers.

Hence the issue.

000400 or 006000 is how our overs look like under these two openers. Against poor WI bowlers they can hit the boundary and 'rescue their SR but against good attacks it won't happen. Hence the systemic downfall of our team. We should have been 140 after 20 with no problems. Even with singles we'd been 80 after 10. 59/0 against WI is nothing but poor. Kamran played 8 overs....5 overs of them were dots.

That is simply unacceptable.
 
Hence the issue.

000400 or 006000 is how our overs look like under these two openers. Against poor WI bowlers they can hit the boundary and 'rescue their SR but against good attacks it won't happen. Hence the systemic downfall of our team. We should have been 140 after 20 with no problems. Even with singles we'd been 80 after 10. 59/0 against WI is nothing but poor. Kamran played 8 overs....5 overs of them were dots.

That is simply unacceptable.

After 10 overs, Kamran was 31 off 28. That's fine in the circumstances, IMO.

Like I said, it's acceptable but we shouldn't settle for that. Someone like Sharjeel could've hit a fifty by then easily, considering the tripe on offer, which is why we need to look to upgrade. But Kamran is doing a far better job than Shehzad and Hafeez. The other options aren't looking very promising at the moment with a newcomer like Fakhar batting like a hack though I hope he gets a chance to open (he won't).

All said and done, against better teams all of Shehzad/Kamran/Hafeez are likely to fail which is why there's a general frustration regarding the top-order options.
 
it's tough coaching a side whose seniors are full of this approach...
 
15 overs for just 10 runs which included a four off edge that could have been caught..against one of the least threatening bowling side out of top 10 teams we will face.
 
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