[REPORT] PCB chairman gives the go-ahead for Salman Butt's inclusion in the national team

[MenInG]

According to reports, PCB chairman has given green signal to former one-day captain Salman Butt for selection in the national team. Butt and teammates Mohammad Asif and Mohammad Amir, were banned for their involvement in the spot-fixing scandal.

http://arynews.tv/en/arthur-blames-bowlers-for-poor-show-in-australia/

 

[Speedster777]

Yes!!!!

 

[nitrous]

what about Asif?

 

[Cricket World]

Great news for Butt

 

[godzilla]

when do we get saleem malik as the team manager?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Atleast Amir was 0.01% understandable.

This is just ridiculous.

What message does this send? How will upcoming youngsters look at this?

Anyways...their choice. You reap what you sow.

 

[Big Mac]

The implication being that Butt (and Asif) weren't selected because the chairman had forbidden it.

 

[Markhor]

Butt already had green light from the PCB so nothing has changed there.

Its a question of whether the team management want him or not.

 

[Markhor]

what about Asif?

There haven't been restrictions on Asif or Butt by PCB. Here's from last month:

http://indianexpress.com/article/sp...an-butt-mohammad-asif-shaharyar-khan-4417460/

Pakistan Cricket Board chairman Shaharyar Khan has said there was no restriction or reservations on part of the PCB or ICC on Salman Butt and Mohammad Asif playing international cricket again.

“There is no restriction or reservations from us or the ICC the fact is that the national selectors can consider them for selection but first they have to show their form and fitness at a consistent level in domestic cricket,” Khan said.

His remarks came after Asif and Butt said they were contemplating writing a letter to the ICC to confirm whether the world body had any reservations on them playing for Pakistan again. Butt, Asif and Mohammad Aamir were found guilty of spot-fixing during the tour of England in late 2010 and sentenced to a minimum of five-years ban.

The ban expired last September and while the PCB permitted left-arm pacer Aamir to make a comeback to the national side, it has not had a clear policy on Butt and Asif. But the PCB chief finally made it clear they can also be considered for national selection provided the selectors felt they were required.

“If they can perform consistently at the domestic level in first-class cricket they can be considered by the selectors who have not been given any instructions not to select them,” Khan insisted. He also pointed out that the case of Aamir was different from those of Butt and Asif as the former was shown leniency and given some relaxation by the ICC and allowed to resume playing domestic cricket before his ban expired.

“But if Butt and Asif do well and fulfil all ICC anti-corruption requirements there is no bar on them playing international cricket again.”

 

[ExpressPacer]

To be honest, this just sets a bad precedent.. I was even against Amir coming into the team but it was still a LITTLE bit okay considering his lawyers said he was new, uneducated and too young was trapped by Salman Butt. However, this bloke right here kept on blatantly lying until the very end and finally confessed when he had no other option. And to see him coming back into the team just gives young players around the world that they can fix matches, make good money and if they get caught, just sit out a few years and be back - up and running!

 

[hadi123]

The only format he should be picked for is Test. But we have Sharjeel and Azhar Ali as openers as well as Sami Aslam. No need for 4 openers in a 15 man squad unless Misbah retires so Azhar could go back to number 3 and you pick 2 out of Butt, Aslam, Sharjeel for the 11

 

[moghul]

Right decision, although Butt will never be my favorite player.

We should follow the law and get over with emotions at some point.

Salman did a crime, punished, you can;t be punished twice for the same crime.

 

[jog_1]

He won't play intl cricket ever again. Same with Asif, green light or not.

 

[Black Zero]

Excellent News...
2017 is going to be good.

 

[omorst7]

Asif & Salman butt will make pak world beater!! Like Amir did!!!!!!
It will nice yo appoint Saleem Malik as TEAM MANAGER OR CHEIF SELECTOR!!!!!

 

[MMHS]

Atleast Amir was 0.01% understandable.

This is just ridiculous.

What message does this send? How will upcoming youngsters look at this?

Anyways...their choice. You reap what you sow.

Why? SK hasn't instructed selectors to hand pick him. If he performs, with respect to his age & future plan, if Selectors think that he merits a place, why not? If Amir is clear to be selected, so should be everyone - even all 3 should be clear for Captaincy as well, if applicable.

There should be a consistency in policy - BCCI never called tinted players, but they allowed them to play in domestics after the ban, so that one can earn his living with the skills he is good at; Ashraful is just 31 now - BCB has allowed him to play in Domestics & BPL, but he won't play for BD again. PCB has allowed Amir to play, so should be the rule for others as well.

The message, if it's wrong, was to call back Amir, not opening doors for these guys.

 

[Black Zero]

The implication being that Butt (and Asif) weren't selected because the chairman had forbidden it.

Yes and our selectors are fully independent.

 

[iRfaN_LA]

Fair enough from PCB. All 3 of them should be given a chance to prove themselves and a shot at selection. They did a crime, paid the price, now let them make a living.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Atleast Amir was 0.01% understandable.

This is just ridiculous.

What message does this send? How will upcoming youngsters look at this?

Anyways...their choice. You reap what you sow.

Yup, exactly.

Only a matter of time before the next Butt/Asif/Amir appears, or in light of this news, they reappear again for the same reasons.

 

[Major]

so that means that asif was well in his right to ask ICC for permission then.

what the hell is going on

 

[godzilla]

inzi is on record as saying that he wants a year and a half or so to examine, watch and induct new talent into the side without causing a dangerous imbalance by making too many moves prematurely. he has stated on the record that had he been selector at the time amir was re-inducted, he would not have picked him, and allowed him to regain form and confidence at the domestic level.

ive heard him speak about all the domestic performances that have caught attention in the last couple of competitions, whether it be abbas, kamran, butt, sadaf and importantly the fitness of these players as per nca assessments - he is well aware that misbah is on his last legs and has made it clear that he doesnt have much more time. in short, despite the results we've seen, ive heard enough to make me think that id like to give inzi a bit of rope.

ill trust him then to pick butt if he truly thinks he's worth it. im still concerned that inzi is not weighing career performances enough over short term tournament performances, and im concerned that he wont discriminate short vs long formats enough, but having heard the long interviews hes given available on youtube, i think he deserves some degree of leeway by supporters.

so lets see. if amir can play i think its only fair that asif and butt are available for selection, but i hope we never see butt on an international scorecard again, and that just on his cricketing merit - theres better players with more promise.

 

[srh]

when you let Amir in then you cannot complain on Butt's return

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

Setting aside his horrible behaviour and lack or remorse, Butt with his test average of 30 is not someone we need back in the team.

 

[ExplicitAI]

Wouldn't mind having Butt back in Tests but not in the shorter formats. He can score in ODI's and hit boundaries whereas others would struggle hitting 4's (making it seem as if 4's are dried up) but he can't score fast enough. He does not play modern ODI cricket. He'd play fast on a flat asian pitch against BD, India, SL, Afg

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Only viable for tests. His 70SR batting in ODI is not needed.

Probably be a decent 35 average test batter but is that good enough for a 33 year old?

Why not invest in someone like Imam or even Shehzad who is a better test batter than him?

 

[Speedster777]

He should be included in all 3 formats as he's technically better than most of our batsmen. Plus, his understanding of cricket is far better than the players in our national side, one of the best captains we had.

 

[Sherlock]

Might as well get Salim Malik and Ata-Ur-Rehman back too...

 

[Dubawi]

This is ridiculous. I'm sure by the time Champions Trophy comes across we will see Hafeez, Butt, Kamran, Malik, Tanvir and Asif in the team (not counting out Afridi).

Always the team balance is destroyed before a major tournament. We have been doing fairly poorly in world tournaments recently and this year's Champions Trophy will be the same. The reason being the names mentioned above and then somehow will be in contention again for 2019 World Cup.

 

[Seamer]

He should be called up as a replacement for Sarfaraz. Top order will look strong

1. Sharjeel Khan
2. Salman Butt
3. Babar Azam
4. Azhar Ali
5. Umar Akmal

 

[Hasan123]

He is only suitable for the test format. Don't see sharjeel and Sami being sacrificed for butt.

 

[Junaids]

Even I think that this is really, really stupid.

The time for Salman Butt and Mohammad Asif to play was for a last Hurrah in England and Australia last year, where their specific skill sets would have been more useful than those of Shan Masood/Sami Aslam/Mohammad Hafeez (Butt) or Sohail Khan/Imran Khan/Rahat Ali (Mohammad Asif).

But I find myself in the absurd and unfamiliar situation of agreeing with [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] that it is stupid to select them now.

As [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] keeps pointing out, there is rampant age cheating in the Pakistan team and only Mohammad Amir and Sami Aslam and Babar Azam are even likely to be under 30 years of age.

So even apart from Younis and Misbah, this is a team that desperately needs to have the older players replaced by ones in their twenties.

So how can Asif and Butt be the solution? The age reasons why I oppose the recall of Fawad Alam apply equally to them (although at least Butt scored a lot more runs than Fawad Alam did in 2016).

It's time to say goodbye to EVERY player over 30 apart from Azhar Ali and Wahab Riaz. And I'll keep Yasir Shah, Asad Shafiq and Sarfraz Ahmed who supposedly aren't quite 30 yet.

But all the other veterans need to go.

 

[Junaids]

How will upcoming youngsters look at this?

I'm on record - even in this thread - as opposing their return now, but only because they are too old for the upcoming 2 year cycle.

The thing is, the only players now under 28 who have emerged since the three spotfixers were banned in 2010 are:

Sami Aslam
Babar Azam
Mohammad Nawaz

That's it. There's nobody else young who has emerged.

And while we can say "who needs an opener when there's already Azhar Ali and Sami Aslam", I prefer the idea of Azhar Ali stiffening the middle order anyway.

The bottom line in terms of your argument is that Sami Aslam and Babar Azam and Mohammad Nawaz are the only youngsters who have earned the right to have their opinions listened to.

 

[Black Zero]

Merit should be the ONLY criteria.

No one has stopped younger players to perform in domestic...

If Kami, Salman, Asif, Shehzad out performing the rest then there is no reason to make arbitrary rules (one day age should be less than 35, next day, should be less than 30 with some notable exceptions, height should be greater than 6-4 etc etc.) just to keep deserving players out.

Sorry, we cannot plan team just for playing 3 matches in australia in 5/6 years times. This is beyond crazy.

Perform and get selected. That's all.

 

[msb314]

Atleast Amir was 0.01% understandable.

This is just ridiculous.

What message does this send? How will upcoming youngsters look at this?

Anyways...their choice. You reap what you sow.

The message it sends is that if you make a mistake - you will rightfully be punished for it but once done - you deserve a second chance just like everyone else.

 

[godzilla]

Merit should be the ONLY criteria.

No one has stopped younger players to perform in domestic...

If Kami, Salman, Asif, Shehzad out performing the rest then there is no reason to make arbitrary rules (one day age should be less than 35, next day, should be less than 30 with some notable exceptions, height should be greater than 6-4 etc etc.) just to keep deserving players out.

Sorry, we cannot plan team just for playing 3 matches in australia in 5/6 years times. This is beyond crazy.

Perform and get selected. That's all.

totally agree. im afraid the world doesnt revolve around caucasian countries in cricket - every series important, not some fantasy 'cycle'. the criterion is performance, pure and simple, whether the players are ten years old or fifty, eight foot tall or two foot tall - if they are the best players in the country, they should get a berth.

 

[Pakistanian]

Yup, exactly.

Only a matter of time before the next Butt/Asif/Amir appears, or in light of this news, they reappear again for the same reasons.

It's really unlikely that anybody would reoffend, plenty of other intl cricketers did the same but they weren't busted unlike Butt and Amir.

 

[Jabo]

Still feel we have better batsman out there

waste of time going with Butt, people need to stop acting like he is some sort of Kohli/AB type of player
good news for bowling though, if Butt is back, then so should Asif..

 

[LordJames]

If YK is unwilling to be Captain, make Salman Captain and make him Bat down the order and groom a younger Captain. Buys us 2-3 years

He is not a good choice for LOI

 

[Junaids]

totally agree. im afraid the world doesnt revolve around caucasian countries in cricket - every series important, not some fantasy 'cycle'. the criterion is performance, pure and simple, whether the players are ten years old or fifty, eight foot tall or two foot tall - if they are the best players in the country, they should get a berth.

There is a big problem with that approach.

It's incredibly short-term'ist to say "there is no such thing as a cycle". If you take that approach, you condemn your team to ageing badly and going through terrible lows.

Australia has belatedly understood this, and as soon as they went for players like Handscomb and Renshaw instead of the older generation they started to win again.

So yes - go by merit. But make sure that you adhere to pretty firm age quotas so that ageing superstars don't block the next generation, and so that good but not great veterans don't obstruct the development of youngsters either.

 

[Ellipsism]

He should be included in all 3 formats as he's technically better than most of our batsmen. Plus, his understanding of cricket is far better than the players in our national side, one of the best captains we had.

His time is up, we must invest in the younger generation.

 

[Justcrazy]

To be honest, this just sets a bad precedent.. I was even against Amir coming into the team but it was still a LITTLE bit okay considering his lawyers said he was new, uneducated and too young was trapped by Salman Butt. However, this bloke right here kept on blatantly lying until the very end and finally confessed when he had no other option. And to see him coming back into the team just gives young players around the world that they can fix matches, make good money and if they get caught, just sit out a few years and be back - up and running!

I was against Amir also , but if he is playing , why not others as well. You got to have uniform laws.

 

[godzilla]

There is a big problem with that approach.

It's incredibly short-term'ist to say "there is no such thing as a cycle". If you take that approach, you condemn your team to ageing badly and going through terrible lows.

Australia has belatedly understood this, and as soon as they went for players like Handscomb and Renshaw instead of the older generation they started to win again.

So yes - go by merit. But make sure that you adhere to pretty firm age quotas so that ageing superstars don't block the next generation, and so that good but not great veterans don't obstruct the development of youngsters either.

with respect this is bs. just looking at 2016's aussie debutants, ferguson came in at 32, holland at 29, mennie at 28. 2015: vogues debuted at 36! in addition, pakistan as you know is not australia. you can only play with what you have. if you have equal talents with one younger than the other, it obviously makes sense to go with the younger player.

how do you conclude that australia started winning with younger selections rather than better selections? how do you know whether they selected on a youth criterion rather than a talent criterion which coincidentally favoured younger players in the context of a 27 year old captain?

australia, unless your memory lasts four seconds, had older players only a few months ago, that transition was smooth and instantaneous. there will be transitions whether you pick older or younger players. the transition is not muted by picking second rate young players that need replacing often rather than older better players that reach their end of their careers sooner. there is no logic to that position whatsoever.

there is no such thing as a cycle, and defining it by some elevated importance to england, australia or south africa is something i cant make sense of.

it makes no sesne to have any age quotas, certainly not stringent ones. pick the best talent that melds into a working team. every professional team on the planet works on the same premise.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Wonder if the chairman is thinking he could be captain again now Misbah is on the way out.

 

[Sanzcool]

Surely, don't u guys have any upcoming talents in your country domestic circuit.

Not that SB is a great player either, avgs in the 30s in both versions of the game, and hasn't played International cricket for 6.5 years

Has to be very much cringeworthy if he gets selected again

 

[Junaids]

with respect this is bs. just looking at 2016's aussie debutants, ferguson came in at 32, holland at 29, mennie at 28. 2015: vogues debuted at 36! in addition, pakistan as you know is not australia. you can only play with what you have. if you have equal talents with one younger than the other, it obviously makes sense to go with the younger player.

how do you conclude that australia started winning with younger selections rather than better selections? how do you know whether they selected on a youth criterion rather than a talent criterion which coincidentally favoured younger players in the context of a 27 year old captain?

australia, unless your memory lasts four seconds, had older players only a few months ago, that transition was smooth and instantaneous. there will be transitions whether you pick older or younger players. the transition is not muted by picking second rate young players that need replacing often rather than older better players that reach their end of their careers sooner. there is no logic to that position whatsoever.

there is no such thing as a cycle, and defining it by some elevated importance to england, australia or south africa is something i cant make sense of.

it makes no sesne to have any age quotas, certainly not stringent ones. pick the best talent that melds into a working team. every professional team on the planet works on the same premise.

You should ask [MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION] and [MENTION=732]Gilly[/MENTION].

90+ % of Aussies think it was an error to keep trying to clone Mike Hussey and face diminishing team returns as we went down to Rogers, Voges and Marsh. 60 all out. 85 all out.

There is acceptance - like there is in England with Hameed and Jennings - that it is better to pick youngsters who are not the finished article and to polish them up.

And there are clearly cycles. The Aussie series v South Africa and Sri Lanka and India and Pakistan could be lost without anyone getting too upset.

But The Ashes at home in eleven months is the ultimate target to build towards.

And Pakistan need to view the tours to England and South Africa the same way.

 

[Black Zero]

I recall meeting salman butt in 2005, exceptionally well mannered guy.
I am his fan for life.
I really wish him best of luck on his return. I feel confident that hI'm being gutsy, he would be successful.

 

[street cricketer]

Butt
Younis
Afridi
Kami
Asif
Sami
Gul

In the same team would be beautiful.

Would send us fans into nostalgia overdrive.

 

[Speedster777]

I think if we're not getting quality players then for time being we should add butt and asif to the team so that younger players can be groomed by playing along with them. A side with butt, asif, amir, junaid, sharjeel, babar, sarfraz can be a world beater.

 

[street cricketer]

Butt
Younis
Afridi
Kami
Asif
Sami
Gul

In the same team would be beautiful.

Would send us fans into nostalgia overdrive.

Forgot Shobby!

Hopefully we can atleast see Butt, Asif, Younis, Misbah, Kami and Ajmal in the test team.

 

[ali2220]

Butt
Younis
Afridi
Kami
Asif
Sami
Gul

In the same team would be beautiful.

Would send us fans into nostalgia overdrive.

That will never happen, bt for nostalgia you can add 4 more players like Kaneria,Ajmal, rana naveed and hafeez

 

[Black Zero]

It was under Salman Butt's captaincy that we defeated Australian team at Leeds.

 

[Cosmic]

Atleast Amir was 0.01% understandable.

This is just ridiculous.

What message does this send? How will upcoming youngsters look at this?

Anyways...their choice. You reap what you sow.

Same Like People See Afridi biting the Ball, Sachin Biting the Ball. Just like Chennai Kings Disbanded... And Form with the Different team...

Youngster's do whatever they wanna do ? when the butt and asif had apologise on several occasions, there is no reason they should not be selected.

 

[Junaids]

It was under Salman Butt's captaincy that we defeated Australian team at Leeds.

I cannot understand why Pakistan would bring back a 32 year old who specializes in conditions (Australia) that he will never play in again, when there is the alternative of grooming Imam-ul-Haq to be a top class opener.

 

[Black Zero]

I cannot understand why Pakistan would bring back a 32 year old who specializes in conditions (Australia) that he will never play in again, when there is the alternative of grooming Imam-ul-Haq to be a top class opener.

Ger us a 5 match series in Australia, then we might implement your both suggestions. Deal?

 

[Black Zero]

I cannot understand why Pakistan would bring back a 32 year old who specializes in conditions (Australia) that he will never play in again, when there is the alternative of grooming Imam-ul-Haq to be a top class opener.

On a serious note, we do not need to worry about SB or IH or anyone else. Let the merit process takes control, reward the performing players and discard the useless.

If SB is not good enough, we will know soon enough and he would be discarded.

No one can stop real talent for long, I. E. Harris is injured but if he fully recovers he would be back.

As someone said, there is always a spot empty at top.

There are several glaring gaps in your approach, but, maybe, this is not the right thread to explore those.

Suppose we groom Inam, and he performs exceptionally well overall over years, and he remains fit for our next Australia tour. What guarantee do we have that he would be successful in Australia?

 

[Indiafan]

Right decision, although Butt will never be my favorite player.

We should follow the law and get over with emotions at some point.

Salman did a crime, punished, you can;t be punished twice for the same crime.

Except being selected for your national team and earning millions and fame is NOT a right. I dunno how people get so confused. Representing your country and earning millions is a privilege and only the best of the best can. If I am not selecting you in the team, I am not "punishing" you, I am just saying, you are not good enough which is the truth. If not being selected in the national team is a punishment, every youngster who dreams of playing for the national team and not selected is being punished

In every other country in the world, the criteria for selection not only includes skills but also conduct and behavior. It is your country team and you are the fans. you are free to support whoever you want. But stop using these stupid lines, it gets more ridiculous every time you say it. Any person who is not selected in the national team despite doing well in domestic can say he is being "punished" using your logic

 

[Indiafan]

Same Like People See Afridi biting the Ball, Sachin Biting the Ball. Just like Chennai Kings Disbanded... And Form with the Different team...

Youngster's do whatever they wanna do ? when the butt and asif had apologise on several occasions, there is no reason they should not be selected.

Yes you are comparing IPL with international now. You do realise the players and officials involved in IPL fiasco were given life bans? You do realize Sachin was cleared of tampering charges by ICC? Now you are comparing ball tampering with FIXING?

Its your team, you can bring 10 fixers in it. But stop making ridiculous comparisons, you will only get laughed at

 

[Ellipsism]

I think if we're not getting quality players then for time being we should add butt and asif to the team so that younger players can be groomed by playing along with them. A side with butt, asif, amir, junaid, sharjeel, babar, sarfraz can be a world beater.

Junaid's 130 kph pies will revolutionise our bowling attack.

 

[Indiafan]

I will also say one thing. Pakistan has saved and forgiven tainted players multiple times. They life banned Akhtar and over-turned. Asif was saved 4 times no. Not one single time have they ever benefited from forgiving a player. Either the player committed another bigger mistake or they never performed for the team. So selecting such players have not only created a bad name for Pakistan in the international cricket committee, the cricket team has never, ever seen a single benefit.

Akhtar didn't come back and start winning matches. Asif came back and committed more crimes. Amir is not even performing. Your team and your reputation has never benefited one single time from forgiving anyone in the past. I doubt it will do again in the future but you keep repeating the same thing.

 

[Cosmic]

Yes you are comparing IPL with international now. You do realise the players and officials involved in IPL fiasco were given life bans? You do realize Sachin was cleared of tampering charges by ICC? Now you are comparing ball tampering with FIXING?

Its your team, you can bring 10 fixers in it. But stop making ridiculous comparisons, you will only get laughed at

So you are saying the Guy's who have publicly apologized. shouldn't be allowed ? How Come ? How come MSDHONI haven't clue for year's what was going behind or openly the team's. or is it the reason MSDhoni resign.

so you are saying Ball tampering is Okay ?

 

[ali2220]

Some parosis who are after Amir, need to understand that Amir did not commit another mistake, and as for his performance, he's still the best pacer Pak have currently, this is the opinion of Pak foreign coach.

 

[Ellipsism]

Some parosis who are after Amir, need to understand that Amir did not commit another mistake, and as for his performance, he's still the best pacer Pak have currently, this is the opinion of Pak foreign coach.

Best pacer picked up six wickets across a three match test series.

 

[ali2220]

Best pacer picked up six wickets across a three match test series.

Going by the same logic, Yasir Shah hasn't been a match winner for Pak, as he has the worst figures among all the bowlers in Aus, even Azhar did better with the ball!!
It is not about 1 series, there is a reason as to why Aamer is the first choice bowler for Pak, he may still be mediocre but is still better than the rest!

 

[RYASIR]

Lol

Only PCB can take these types of decision!. he wz captain of the team when the fixing episode happened.... we can only laugh from Indian occupied Kashmir

 

[ali2220]

Also ppl need to understand that SK saying he has no objection doesn't mean he's asking the selectors to pick SB. Azhar and the other opener are doing fine job for Pak, i don't think there is any need for selectors to disturb the opening combo.

 

[Ellipsism]

Going by the same logic, Yasir Shah hasn't been a match winner for Pak, as he has the worst figures among all the bowlers in Aus, even Azhar did better with the ball!!
It is not about 1 series, there is a reason as to why Aamer is the first choice bowler for Pak, he may still be mediocre but is still better than the rest!

You type as if this is the only poor series Amir has had.

Tour of England- poor
West Indies home series- average
Tour of New Zealand- poor
Tour of Australia- poor

Amir has had 11 matches to reinvigorate his former self and has not been able to do so.

Should fans tolerate Amir's inability to pick wickets? No. Nobody cares if he beat the bat on x occasions, the primary purpose of a bowler is to pick up wickets, which Amir has failed to fulfil.

 

[JibranAnsari]

I hope butt and asif are never selected.

 

[proud_pakistani]

Since Aamir has made a comeback, I do think there never was a reason to stop Butt or Asif from selection. They should be equal towards all 3 as all 3 committed the same crime.

Anyway it's nothing to get extremely happy about. Butt has always been an average player. Asif is blowing hot and cold at the moment.

 

[godzilla]

You should ask [MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION] and [MENTION=732]Gilly[/MENTION].

90+ % of Aussies think it was an error to keep trying to clone Mike Hussey and face diminishing team returns as we went down to Rogers, Voges and Marsh. 60 all out. 85 all out.

There is acceptance - like there is in England with Hameed and Jennings - that it is better to pick youngsters who are not the finished article and to polish them up.

And there are clearly cycles. The Aussie series v South Africa and Sri Lanka and India and Pakistan could be lost without anyone getting too upset.

But The Ashes at home in eleven months is the ultimate target to build towards.

And Pakistan need to view the tours to England and South Africa the same way.

90% of aussies think that? so what? 90% of pakistanis think that afridi should still be captain/insert random opinion*

im afriad until we see more of this team against a more competent team than pakistan, we wont now if they will still be hitting the under 100 scores.

there is no acceptance in england to pick youngsters and polich them up. there is an acceptance to pick up talent and polish them up. if england had a gooch who was 30, hameed wouldnt have stood a chance being selected. but they dont.

these cycles are in your mind. these are series. no team globally ignores all matches in between their particular favourite series, whether thats the ashes of indo/pak. this is total rubbish. the test rankings which is the global measure of test success does not preclude matches in between key series.

every single match counts, and every team tries to win every match.

 

[in_cutter]

Mashallah, great going by chairman.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Why? SK hasn't instructed selectors to hand pick him. If he performs, with respect to his age & future plan, if Selectors think that he merits a place, why not? If Amir is clear to be selected, so should be everyone - even all 3 should be clear for Captaincy as well, if applicable.

There should be a consistency in policy - BCCI never called tinted players, but they allowed them to play in domestics after the ban, so that one can earn his living with the skills he is good at; Ashraful is just 31 now - BCB has allowed him to play in Domestics & BPL, but he won't play for BD again. PCB has allowed Amir to play, so should be the rule for others as well.

The message, if it's wrong, was to call back Amir, not opening doors for these guys.

Its all fine for arguments mate but right from beginning Amir case was different.

17 years...coming from a poor background.....(partly) influenced by team captain.....confession (though one can claim he confessed only after when it looked like it was the best option for him but then he still did it way before others and paid the price).

What he did was wrong but he had a bit of sympathy even outside Pakistan. Even those who don't agree with his selection, understand the other point of view.

Butt and Asif case was completely different. There is no valid argument for it.

Interestingly, Butt gets to play for Pakistan inspite of recruiting others into spot fixing while Kaneria gets to rot for doing pretty much the same thing (maybe he recruited for match fixing but then as if there is a big difference in between these 2 - damage is done in both cases).

Same Like People See Afridi biting the Ball, Sachin Biting the Ball. Just like Chennai Kings Disbanded... And Form with the Different team...

Youngster's do whatever they wanna do ? when the butt and asif had apologise on several occasions, there is no reason they should not be selected.

Not a valid comparison. I am not going to spend my time explaining the differences.

Ball tampering I agree (the video did look dodgy) but then if we are gonna torch Tendu for that (which is fine), then we may have to torch some other players 10X-100X for it.

The message it sends is that if you make a mistake - you will rightfully be punished for it but once done - you deserve a second chance just like everyone else.

A cashier working for a major bank steals vast sums of money and runs.

He gets caught, gets tried and goes to jail for a long time before getting released.

Now if the bank he previously used to work for REFUSES to hire him back (nor does any other bank), can we say he deserves a second chance because he has done his time?

Everything has a situation and context. Those 2 deserve a second chance but NOT in cricket (definitely not in international cricket).

 

[Drreddymd]

Its all fine for arguments mate but right from beginning Amir case was different.

17 years...coming from a poor background.....(partly) influenced by team captain.....confession (though one can claim he confessed only after when it looked like it was the best option for him but then he still did it way before others and paid the price).

What he did was wrong but he had a bit of sympathy even outside Pakistan. Even those who don't agree with his selection, understand the other point of view.

Butt and Asif case was completely different. There is no valid argument for it.

Interestingly, Butt gets to play for Pakistan inspite of recruiting others into spot fixing while Kaneria gets to rot for doing pretty much the same thing (maybe he recruited for match fixing but then as if there is a big difference in between these 2 - damage is done in both cases).



Not a valid comparison. I am not going to spend my time explaining the differences.

Ball tampering I agree (the video did look dodgy) but then if we are gonna torch Tendu for that (which is fine), then we may have to torch some other players 10X-100X for it.



A cashier working for a major bank steals vast sums of money and runs.

He gets caught, gets tried and goes to jail for a long time before getting released.

Now if the bank he previously used to work for REFUSES to hire him back (nor does any other bank), can we say he deserves a second chance because he has done his time?

Everything has a situation and context. Those 2 deserve a second chance but NOT in cricket (definitely not in international cricket).

Why this strange situation with kaneria? How come he is banned for life but others are allowed to play?

 

[Stallion__]

That would set an appalling precedence for the future.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Why this strange situation with kaneria? How come he is banned for life but others are allowed to play?

Don't understand how that happened.

While I don't subscribe to Kaneria's constant victim mentality and usage of Hindu card, its hard to say he has been dealt fairly when others get treated like this.

 

[godzilla]

Don't understand how that happened.

While I don't subscribe to Kaneria's constant victim mentality and usage of Hindu card, its hard to say he has been dealt fairly when others get treated like this.

its a question for the ECB, not the PCB isnt it? i was never much of a fan of his bowling, but i cant understand how the sentences were so different either.

 

[MMHS]

Merit should be the ONLY criteria.

No one has stopped younger players to perform in domestic...

If Kami, Salman, Asif, Shehzad out performing the rest then there is no reason to make arbitrary rules (one day age should be less than 35, next day, should be less than 30 with some notable exceptions, height should be greater than 6-4 etc etc.) just to keep deserving players out.

Sorry, we cannot plan team just for playing 3 matches in australia in 5/6 years times. This is beyond crazy.

Perform and get selected. That's all.

Exactly - if a player is performing at 48, he should be selected.

Only, issue is, you have to set the "Performance" criteria without double standard & considering that we are in 2017 - fitness demand for this era is that fast bowlers will need to bowl 23 overs in a day & 89th over of the day has to be his fastest, just like 2nd over of the day. Now, even ICC doesn't allow batsmen to take runners (I can safely say, debuting 20 years later, Saeed or Shidhu's career would have been half & IND/PAK would have fielded with 10 fielders several times).

If a fast bowler at 38 can manage his breath a bit better that 32 years old Sohail with similar set of skills, I am all for him as he is more experienced. [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] put a hypothetical cap to set a standard, but the idea is a player should be selected till he is at least what one can expect from a 35 years old man, on standard fitness criteria. Haris is 28, even if I take 2/3 years in it, he is at most 30 - with his fitness level, he'll not find a team in English League cricket or AUS Grade cricket; while YK can easily play till ENG 2018 at least & he'll bat at combined 60+ average in PAK's next 10-12 Tests against WI, BD, SRL & IND (?) and he'll be 44 by the time PAK tours ENG.

Age cap is just a guide line of standard fitness level, but exceptions are there. Normally fast bowlers retire by 35 & batsman/spinners around 38. For PAK players, ideally it should be 3 years less for both - but at least not this 3 years more.

 

[MMHS]

Its all fine for arguments mate but right from beginning Amir case was different.

17 years...coming from a poor background.....(partly) influenced by team captain.....confession (though one can claim he confessed only after when it looked like it was the best option for him but then he still did it way before others and paid the price).

What he did was wrong but he had a bit of sympathy even outside Pakistan. Even those who don't agree with his selection, understand the other point of view.

Butt and Asif case was completely different. There is no valid argument for it.

Interestingly, Butt gets to play for Pakistan inspite of recruiting others into spot fixing while Kaneria gets to rot for doing pretty much the same thing (maybe he recruited for match fixing but then as if there is a big difference in between these 2 - damage is done in both cases).



Not a valid comparison. I am not going to spend my time explaining the differences.

Ball tampering I agree (the video did look dodgy) but then if we are gonna torch Tendu for that (which is fine), then we may have to torch some other players 10X-100X for it.



A cashier working for a major bank steals vast sums of money and runs.

He gets caught, gets tried and goes to jail for a long time before getting released.

Now if the bank he previously used to work for REFUSES to hire him back (nor does any other bank), can we say he deserves a second chance because he has done his time?

Everything has a situation and context. Those 2 deserve a second chance but NOT in cricket (definitely not in international cricket).

Chairman PCB has to be diplomatic you know. He can't say that we considered Amir as he has future while Butt & Asif are spent force.

But, look what they have done - outside AUS/NZ; Butt averages <25 in 25+ Tests. If I take out PAK (where probably PAK won't play a Test in next few years); Butt's average is 18 for 20+ Tests. So, you can sum-up his chances at this age.

Asif, even at his prime was at most an excellent new ball bowler in grass-less tracks - that's when he used to clock 138KM+ (In fact, he reached 141KM during that famous SRL tour). Now, in his 1st spell, he barely touches 130KM - almost as good as Imran Khan with bat (But wrong Imran), & a bit better than Kaneria when it comes to field - and he is officially 34 now - now figure out his odds, even for the WI tour.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Chairman PCB has to be diplomatic you know. He can't say that we considered Amir as he has future while Butt & Asif are spent force.

But, look what they have done - outside AUS/NZ; Butt averages <25 in 25+ Tests. If I take out PAK (where probably PAK won't play a Test in next few years); Butt's average is 18 for 20+ Tests. So, you can sum-up his chances at this age.

Asif, even at his prime was at most an excellent new ball bowler in grass-less tracks - that's when he used to clock 138KM+ (In fact, he reached 141KM during that famous SRL tour). Now, in his 1st spell, he barely touches 130KM - almost as good as Imran Khan with bat (But wrong Imran), & a bit better than Kaneria when it comes to field - and he is officially 34 now - now figure out his odds, even for the WI tour.

I get it but this is wrong kind of diplomacy imho.

He needs to make statements that either clearly states they won't be picked or he needs to evade the questions in an obvious manner that everyone gets the idea.

The whole aim is to give an answer that sends out a message to other youngsters.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

its a question for the ECB, not the PCB isnt it? i was never much of a fan of his bowling, but i cant understand how the sentences were so different either.

Yes, to ECB.

But also to PCB.

They just washed their hands off him unlike the trio.

There is a new thread now where Inzi is saying Salman Butt would be a good addition to the Pak team. Baffling.

 

[godzilla]

Yes, to ECB.

But also to PCB.

They just washed their hands off him unlike the trio.

There is a new thread now where Inzi is saying Salman Butt would be a good addition to the Pak team. Baffling.

arent the pcb bound by icc rules to enforce the ruling of another associate member (ECB)? i thought that was the case and that the pcb couldnt do anything even if they wanted to.