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Ricky Ponting or Virat Kohli, who would you prefer to have in a World Cup Final?

I will take Kohli because for me he is only second to Viv in ODIs.

Ponting did not do anything special in his first two world cups either.

Kohli, already is a better ODI batsman, who has played better knocks than Ponting. It is only a matter of time that Kohli outperforms Ponting in world cups too.
 
Mamoon said:
This fallacy is always there when people underrated the present to glorify the past. If the modern day batsmen are lucky to be playing in an era of flat wickets, short boundaries and big bats, then modern day bowlers are also unlucky to be playing in this era.

However, the counter-argument is that in this era, the quality of bowling is low as well. Basically any excuse fits that makes the modern day batsmen look like tail-enders compared to the legends of the past.
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Are you purposely playing ignorant here.

Bowlers of this era who have done well are actually rated very high

Your Steyns, Starcs, Johnsons etc get a lot of praise for doing well in this era

The post cricfan4eva made is just picking and choosing what points to reply on. The argument had been that since batsmen of today have better stats it doesn't necessarily mean they are better batsmen due to many reasons outlined (bat sizes, pitches, bowling, rules, free hits). So just cuz Kohli or De Villiers or Amla average 50+ compared to low 40s of tendulkar or Ponting, doesn't mean the batsmen of today are better
 
Slog said:
Are you purposely playing ignorant here.

Bowlers of this era who have done well are actually rated very high

Your Steyns, Starcs, Johnsons etc get a lot of praise for doing well in this era

The post cricfan4eva made is just picking and choosing what points to reply on. The argument had been that since batsmen of today have better stats it doesn't necessarily mean they are better batsmen due to many reasons outlined (bat sizes, pitches, bowling, rules, free hits). So just cuz Kohli or De Villiers or Amla average 50+ compared to low 40s of tendulkar or Ponting, doesn't mean the batsmen of today are better
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Firstly the post you quoted me on, wasn't suggesting that. In fact I posted in this thread before that at this stage Ponting is obviously ahead of Kohli as he hasn't even completed his career, not even close.

I was asking the other poster how did he come to a conclusion that bowlers of this era are inferior.

Now as for the bolded part, what according to you batsman of this era should do to be considered better than SRT/Ponting/Lara?
 
Slog said:
Are you purposely playing ignorant here.

Bowlers of this era who have done well are actually rated very high

Your Steyns, Starcs, Johnsons etc get a lot of praise for doing well in this era

The post cricfan4eva made is just picking and choosing what points to reply on. The argument had been that since batsmen of today have better stats it doesn't necessarily mean they are better batsmen due to many reasons outlined (bat sizes, pitches, bowling, rules, free hits). So just cuz Kohli or De Villiers or Amla average 50+ compared to low 40s of tendulkar or Ponting, doesn't mean the batsmen of today are better
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How many people will accept the claim that the likes of Johnson, Steyn, Starc, Anderson, Broad etc. are better than Wasim, Imran, Marshall, Lillee, Hadlee, Holding etc. because they are bowling in much tougher bowling conditions?

The logic that 'just cuz Wasim or Hadlee or Marshall average low 20s compared to high 20s of Johnson or Anderson, doesn't mean the bowlers of the past are better'.

However, this will be a blasphemous statement even though the logic is the same. According to the majority, both the batsmen and the bowlers of the past are better than modern day batsmen and bowlers which is a logically challenged argument considering the reasons that are cited to put down modern day batsmen.
 
Looks like a few Indians have forgotten about the 2003 WC Final, I don't blame them either :))
 
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Slog said:
Ponting just laughs at you with his three World Cup medals around his neck. And a man of the match in a final to top it off
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He's had one good knock of the 4 chances he's had in a final . Even the one knock was hardly a pressure knock batting first . What exactly is so great about that record ?

Why are we even bringing WC wins here ?
 
If question is about who has better record in the finals: OFcourse, it is Ponting so far.

IF question is about who would i rather take in the finals: Then question is actually who has more chance to do better in ODI match, Kohli already has surpassed Ponting as an ODI player. He is an amazing chaser, he does well under pressure. Now even Gambhir has played better knocks in the finals of WC, but it doesn't mean that i will take him over Kohli. So for same reason, i will not take Ponting over Kohli in the finals.
 
Kohli has potential to become top3 greatest odi bat of all time but until he dominates one of the world cup with a solid performance from the bat, its hard to make any claims in favour of him.

The knock vs Pakistan in WC is overrated as they didnt had a strong team to beat India.Yes, it was a high pressure match but that knock was pretty scratchy and won't be mentioned anywhere among the best knocks of that world cup.

Not that Ponting has done wonders in World Cup as he has managed to only pile up vs Indian attack but it was enough for PPers to rate it highly because it was a world cup final.

Its a tough call to be honest given the fact that I back Kohli to do well in a wc Final but it would be simply unfair to Ponting if I don't pick him currently over Kohli as the former has got a 140 in WC Final.

As I already stated, a lot will also depend on the team they had.
 
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Btw, I back the so called 'gutless cricketer' ABD to play a great knock if he comes up to bat with scoreboard reading 105-1 after 13.4 overs in the first inning of a WC final and has to face the likes of Zaheer, Nehra and Bhajji with part timers filling fifth option but all tired with initial destruction.
 
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Kohli is a failure in WCs. Averages what? 30-odd? Ponting is a fantastic big game player.

I'd pick Ponting over Kohli to be my #3 in ODIs any day of the week.
 
Three modern day players (Amla, de Villiers and Dhoni) will make my all-time ODI XI so it isn't a case of overrating players of the past. Ponting was simply a better batsman than Kohli is right now.
 
Ponting already played a great knock in ODI final , Kohli yet to do so.
 
Snow said:
If question is about who has better record in the finals: OFcourse, it is Ponting so far.

IF question is about who would i rather take in the finals: Then question is actually who has more chance to do better in ODI match, Kohli already has surpassed Ponting as an ODI player. He is an amazing chaser, he does well under pressure. Now even Gambhir has played better knocks in the finals of WC, but it doesn't mean that i will take him over Kohli. So for same reason, i will not take Ponting over Kohli in the finals.
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What? De silva and Gilchrist too played great wc knocks and are way better than noobs like Kohli who is a failure at 50 over wc stage.
 
Yes a guy who captained Australia to 3 WCs vs someone who's not even captained his side once in any of the latter!! :14: This thread should have 2016 comparison award !!!

Leaving everything aside I'd just fit in Ponting for his Experience in WCs alone !! And this just going by what he brings to the table as an individual - Never mind the ATG middle order bat he was all throughout late 90s to 2007-08 !
 
LegendAli said:
Not sure about that, every time I have seen him he looks like the average joe, nothing appealing about him.
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Not when he was batting. Even while fielding he was charismatic. Btw If any fielder can rival jhonty rhodes, its ponting.
 
Madplayer said:
Not when he was batting. Even while fielding he was charismatic. Btw If any fielder can rival jhonty rhodes, its ponting.
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That is ABD imo,defn rivals Jonty and the only player to do so but defn Ponting is top 5 and Smith is getting there with his amazing catches.
 
Ponting,period.

As a player kohli is already a limited-overs great but he has to do a lot to be compared to punter

Virat is a guy who no one can afford to ignore he is a chase mastermaster who has shown that he can surpass any legend with any record with his never say die attitude

If he plays same cricket for some years he should outclass every one including ponting with his sheer class thats sure

But to answer it in 2016 ,I would say if ponting was Maradona or Pele,then Virat is modern day CR7 or Messi who has potential to outdo all but if he plays same cricket of dominance

Ricky ponting was a great but virat has shown promise of being more great
 
Kohli is a sensational ODI player and I enjoy watching him play. He will go down as a great player and really the sky is the limit on what he can achieve. Unfair to compare him to Ponting who has done it all. When Kohli retires I'm sure just like Ponting he will be able to stand by his record with pride.
 
LegendAli said:
Not sure about that, every time I have seen him he looks like the average joe, nothing appealing about him.
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You haven't even watched Clarke live by your own admission so I don't know why you're lying that you've seen Ponting. If you're calling him an average joe, you clearly have zero idea what you are talking about.
 
JaDed said:
That is ABD imo,defn rivals Jonty and the only player to do so but defn Ponting is top 5 and Smith is getting there with his amazing catches.
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Lets not bring superhumans like ABD into the discussion. There is nothing he cant do.
 
Bilal7 said:
You haven't even watched Clarke live by your own admission so I don't know why you're lying that you've seen Ponting. If you're calling him an average joe, you clearly have zero idea what you are talking about.
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First of all don't accuse me of lying, look at yourself first before pointing at others.

You have no idea who I have watched and who I haven't but you do your thing and keep assuming stuff about people as assuming is clearly your forte.
 
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Is this a troll thread to troll Kohli?:srini

Virat is a fantastic player but hasn't done enough to be compared with Punter in world cups. In fact, he is yet to finish his career too, so the thread is a bit unfair on him. There are players like Dhoni and Gilchrist who have a mediocre world cup record, but still had that one great performance in a world cup final. So regardless of their previous failures, that single world cup final performance will still make people forget their otherwise average world cup record and bring that memorable performance to the forefront.

Ponting is someone who has a world cup final performance along with a very good overall world cup record. So the conparison is kinda unfair on Kohli, who I'm sure will get his chance in the next few years in his career. He is too good a player to be with his present record which is decent, but not befitting a player of his caliber.
 
Aman said:
Looks like a few Indians have forgotten about the 2003 WC Final, I don't blame them either :))
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What people forget is that Ricky played in 4 finals and failed in 3. The one he succeeded in was after Hayden and Gilchrist had already pummeled the Indian bowlers into submission and score was somewhere like 100 for 1 in 12 overs
 
He fizzled on a featherbed track. One good ball and boom no more runs!!
Just a Flat Track bully against poor bowling.
 
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Indiafan said:
What people forget is that Ricky played in 4 finals and failed in 3. The one he succeeded in was after Hayden and Gilchrist had already pummeled the Indian bowlers into submission and score was somewhere like 100 for 1 in 12 overs
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No one is going to respond to this .
Not one valid answer why Ponting is better when his record in finals in pretty average .
 
Indiafan said:
What people forget is that Ricky played in 4 finals and failed in 3. The one he succeeded in was after Hayden and Gilchrist had already pummeled the Indian bowlers into submission and score was somewhere like 100 for 1 in 12 overs
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Still a legendary knock.
 
LegendAli said:
First of all don't accuse me of lying, look at yourself first before pointing at others.

You have no idea who I have watched and who I haven't but you do your thing and keep assuming stuff about people as assuming is clearly your forte.
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Lol, dude. You yourself admitted that you've only recently got into cricket and haven't even had a chance of watching Clarke. No need to get riled up just because you've been exposed. :afridi
 
jusarrived said:
No one is going to respond to this .
Not one valid answer why Ponting is better when his record in finals in pretty average .
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Pontings average record in World cup finals

240 runs average 82 strike rate 93.53

I think you haven't got a response because you are the one who doesent have a valid argument.
 
Gilly said:
Pontings average record in World cup finals

240 runs average 82 strike rate 93.53

I think you haven't got a response because you are the one who doesent have a valid argument.
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60% of those runs came in one game and off the back of a massive opening partnership ergo zero pressure.

I don't get the Ponting hype ; he had great players around him all his life.
 
Thomaskutty said:
60% of those runs came in one game and off the back of a massive opening partnership ergo zero pressure.

I don't get the Ponting hype ; he had great players around him all his life.
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Here knock yourself out dude, list all the players with a better finals record than Ponting, just make it the top seven which I'm sure wont have Ponting in it.
 
Gilly said:
Here knock yourself out dude, list all the players with a better finals record than Ponting, just make it the top seven which I'm sure wont have Ponting in it.
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I don't think finals record with one major score is that significant . For a WC final , I just go with who is the better pressure player in ODIs and that is Kohli for me. That is largely due to his run chasing abilities.
 
obviously Ponting he has an iconic WC Final knock while Kohli has a modest record in WC knockouts
 
Bilal7 said:
Lol, dude. You yourself admitted that you've only recently got into cricket and haven't even had a chance of watching Clarke. No need to get riled up just because you've been exposed. :afridi
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and how exactly does prove that I lied?

You would think someone with 24k posts would know how to read. :uak
 
Gilly said:
Pontings average record in World cup finals

240 runs average 82 strike rate 93.53

I think you haven't got a response because you are the one who doesent have a valid argument.
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It's still just one good innings . I don't think many batsmen will get 4 opportunities in. WC final . Ghambir scored 97 in his first opportunity so I would rather pick him than Ponting going just by stats .
 
LegendAli said:
and how exactly does prove that I lied?

You would think someone with 24k posts would know how to read. :uak
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If you haven't seen Clarke bat, you haven't seen Ponting bat.

Thomaskutty said:
I don't think finals record with one major score is that significant . For a WC final , I just go with who is the better pressure player in ODIs and that is Kohli for me. That is largely due to his run chasing abilities.
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How many match-winning hundreds does he have against Australia, New Zealand, England or South Africa in their home countries?

Average of 40 with only four centuries against these teams away. Not a single century in a winning cause. Add to that the fact that he has an underwhelming WC record and some of the comments hyping him to the moon are looking ridiculous.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/253802.html?class=2;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting
 
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Bilal7 said:
If you haven't seen Clarke bat, you haven't seen Ponting bat.
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What I want to know is why are you still living in 1995?

I can watch any player bat at any time I want, I'll leave the math or should I say assumption up to you.
 
Protea Fan said:
Ponting,period.

As a player kohli is already a limited-overs great but he has to do a lot to be compared to punter

Virat is a guy who no one can afford to ignore he is a chase mastermaster who has shown that he can surpass any legend with any record with his never say die attitude

If he plays same cricket for some years he should outclass every one including ponting with his sheer class thats sure

But to answer it in 2016 ,I would say if ponting was Maradona or Pele,then Virat is modern day CR7 or Messi who has potential to outdo all but if he plays same cricket of dominance

Ricky ponting was a great but virat has shown promise of being more great
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Kohli has already surpassed Ponting.

After 168 innings, Kohli averages 53@90 SR with 26 100s and a total of 7570 runs.

After 168 innings, Ponting averaged 42@77 SR with just 13 100s and a total of 5995 runs.

Ponting scored 31 100s in 365 innings. Kohli is just 5 100s behind but has played 197 less innings. He can easily double his hundreds and overall runs tally in the next 197 innings that he is yet to play.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Kohli has already surpassed Ponting.

After 168 innings, Kohli averages 53@90 SR with 26 100s and a total of 7570 runs.

After 168 innings, Ponting averaged 42@77 SR with just 13 100s and a total of 5995 runs.

Ponting scored 31 100s in 365 innings. Kohli is just 5 100s behind but has played 197 less innings. He can easily double his hundreds and overall runs tally in the next 197 innings that he is yet to play.
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Whatta great logic

By that joe root n williamson already surpassed sanga,dravid etc because in 50 odd tests they have better stats than those legends i guess
 
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