Sabarimala: India's Kerala paralysed amid protests over temple entry

[JaDed]

Have no issues with it tbh even if its attention seeking.

 

[CricketCartoons]

"Freedom of religion" too is enshrined in the constitution. I am no expert on Indian constitution or law/polity but this comes under fundamental rights.



There are sub clauses and more details but the gist is given above.

So it does look like a constitution vs constitution argument. Right to Equality (as joshilabhai said) vs Right to Religious Freedom.

LOL. Hilarious. Indian constitution doesn't have anything like fundamental rights. It is a rotten constitution copied from other constitutions, written by lawyers for lawyers, and every so called fundamental right has more clauses than a christmas convention. Fundamental means it cannot be taken away, but one "fundamental" right was taken away, and the others have preconditions and exceptions. no wonder india is a mess, when it has a constitution rotten at its core.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Happened in Chennai too during Dravidian govns, they took over the Nanganallur Anjaneya Temple to IIRC, they wouldn't touch Thousand Lights though , [MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION]

All communities have suffered under politicians in India. Let us not make it a communal issue.

 

[CricketCartoons]

All communities have suffered under politicians in India. Let us not make it a communal issue.

It is a communal issue. Let us not resort to subterfuge.

 

[GBK_Fan]

Supreme court is hearing a petition which wants non hindus to be allowed in jagganath puri temple. I wonder what right a non hindu has to enter one of the holiest shrines of hindus? Why should they be allowed?

[MENTION=143407]GBK_Fan[/MENTION] This is what I was talking about.

I was expecting this topic to come up. Frankly these issues are not similar, one is about whether a religious site can be treated like a tourist spot or in the case of Sabarimala a Hindu who doesn’t believe in a custom is allowed to visit. Eg: I eat beef, that’s a custom i choose not to follow. I am sure most of us have similar stories where we have decided to forego some custom from the past

 

[JaDed]

All communities have suffered under politicians in India. Let us not make it a communal issue.

No this is a point about interference and there has to be a logic as to why Dravidian parties don't take over authority of non-Hindu religious trusts.

You cannot have diff laws across isn't that why we blame BJP for being biased towards Hindus?

 

[TM Riddle]

I was expecting this topic to come up. Frankly these issues are not similar, one is about whether a religious site can be treated like a tourist spot or in the case of Sabarimala a Hindu who doesn’t believe in a custom is allowed to visit. Eg: I eat beef, that’s a custom i choose not to follow. I am sure most of us have similar stories where we have decided to forego some custom from the past

The issues are similar in the sense that SC is needlessly interfering in the matters which should be left aside keeping in mind the sensitivities attached to them.
It's not like all Temples object non Hindus entering inside them. There must have been some historical reasoning behind this ruling peculiar to Puri and should be respected.

 

[Swashbuckler]

No this is a point about interference and there has to be a logic as to why Dravidian parties don't take over authority of non-Hindu religious trusts.

You cannot have diff laws across isn't that why we blame BJP for being biased towards Hindus?

Brother I don't have enough knowledge about these matters, especially temples, mosques and churches, how they are managed or interference of government. My support for Sabarimala devotees (traditionalists) was based on freedom of religion. I really do not know what happens in TN temples on the administration side. My only association with temples is that I have visited them often mostly as a schoolkid and have participated in a few festivals. Otherwise I haven't given these things much thought.

Isn't there a wakf board and council in TN and other states? Does Government exercise control over Islamic trusts, properties etc via that? I do not know, just asking.

 

[JaDed]

Brother I don't have enough knowledge about these matters, especially temples, mosques and churches, how they are managed or interference of government. My support for Sabarimala devotees (traditionalists) was based on freedom of religion. I really do not know what happens in TN temples on the administration side. My only association with temples is that I have visited them often mostly as a schoolkid and have participated in a few festivals. Otherwise I haven't given these things much thought.

Isn't there a wakf board and council in TN and other states? Does Government exercise control over Islamic trusts, properties etc via that? I do not know, just asking.

Govn doesn't ,good you know about the Wakf, its that right should be allowed for Hindu temples as well, tbf this is majorly a problem with Dravidian and Communists/Congress govn. There is a reason why Andhra/Telengana wipes the floor with other southern states ,they are brutal about their work(unapologetic about it) and easily go on to improve the infrastructure.

To give you a few op-eds both are biased but still give idea about how situation is from other(Hindu conservative) end.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/toi-edit-page/fence-that-eats-the-crop-government-running-hindu-temples-is-another-anomaly-indias-selective-secularism-fosters/

https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/freeing-temples-from-state-control/article5594132.ece

 

[JaDed]

Religion should be kept away, but neither Congress nor BJP has been able to do so and in practical terms in the eye of law and govn all religions should be dealt with in similar fashion.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

More violence.

Bombs hurled, houses targeted, 3,000 arrested as violence over Sabarimala row continues


Homes of an MP and an MLA were attacked in Kannur overnight as violence raged in Kerala on Saturday, the third day of clashes during which over 3,000 people have been arrested for their role in protests following the entry of women into the Sabarimala temple.

As the police intensified its crackdown on those indulging in violence — the total number of arrests doubled from around 1,400 on Friday to 3,000 on Saturday — the opposition hardened its stance against the government and announced the visits of Prime Minister Narendra Modi and BJP president Amit Shah to the state later this month.

In Kannur, notorious for bloody clashes between cadres of the Left and the right-wing, houses of many including an MLA and MP were attacked on Friday night. The arson included targets on both sides of the protests: the Bharatiya Janata Party-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and the ruling Communist Party of India (Marxist).

Prohibitory orders were enforced in many areas to contain recurring violence.

“We caution the CM to stop the mindless violence failing which the government will have to face serious consequences. You can’t let loose party goons on BJP workers like this,” said BJP spokesperson GVL Narasimha Rao in New Delhi.

Modi will visit the state on January 15 and 27 and Shah in the first week of February, according to party sources.

The CPI(M) reiterated that the violence was being carried out by Sangh Parivar outfits. “Nobody can browbeat an elected government. The BJP-RSS are finding difficult to accept the humiliation they faced after women entered the temple so their cadres are targeting party workers and offices,” said CPI(M) state secretary Kodiyeri Balakrishnan, adding Shah’s visit will only help widen the Communist base in the state.

According to PTI, governor P Sathasivam briefed Union home minister Rajnath Singh about the law and order situation in the southern state.

North Kerala’s Kannur and central Kerala’s Pathanamhitta where the famous temple is situated bore the maximum brunt of violence. CPI(M) legislator AN Shamseer’s house was attacked and within hours, rivals retaliated by attacking the house of BJP Rajya Sabbha MP V Muralidharan in Thalassery. A bomb explosion was reported from Perambra in Kozhikode district, while a CPI (M) worker’s house was attacked. An office of the RSS was set on fire early on Saturday.

The scale of the violence received international attention, with the United Kingdom urging its citizens to exercise caution while staying in or travelling to Kerala, and the United Nations Secretary General’s office urging people to respect the rule of law.

Widespread violence broke out on Thursday during a strike called by the Sabarimala Karma Samithi, an umbrella organisation of Hindu groups and supported by the BJP, after the entry of two women into the hilltop shrine of Sabarimala on Wednesday. Women of childbearing age have traditionally been prohibited from the entering the temple, but the practice was termed illegal by the Supreme Court.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...w-continues/story-mmKoCUgxO7CXo5PT2b0naK.html

 

[TM Riddle]

Okay this is getting ridiculous now. What is Govt doing? Centre should immediately send paramilitary if the state govt can't get the situation under control.

 

[GBK_Fan]

Okay this is getting ridiculous now. What is Govt doing? Centre should immediately send paramilitary if the state govt can't get the situation under control.

It’s ok dude. Naseeruddin shahs son does not visit Kerala and when he does he feels safe.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

First you let them out of the house on their own, next they want to visit temples and now they want to climb mountains.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Fears Kerala crisis could worsen as women allowed to trek to Indian state's second highest peak <a href="https://t.co/0YI7JBwbd5">https://t.co/0YI7JBwbd5</a> <a href="https://t.co/KM8982rPns">pic.twitter.com/KM8982rPns</a></p>— Indy World (@IndyWorld) <a href="https://twitter.com/IndyWorld/status/1082326548148076546?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 7, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[JaDed]

Politics can really bring out the worst in a state ,Kerala in news for all wrong reasons in past few years.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Well that escalated quickly.

One of the two Indian women who defied a historic ban to enter a Hindu temple is recovering in hospital after her mother-in-law allegedly attacked her.

Kanaka Durga, 39, had been in hiding since 2 January, when her entry into the Sabarimala temple sparked protests.

She told police her mother-in-law beat her when she returned home on Tuesday.

Kanaka Durga "was hit on her head by her mother-in-law when she returned home on Tuesday morning", Ms Ammini told BBC Hindi.

Friends say her family did not support her decision to enter the temple and felt she had insulted their beliefs by doing so.

"They did not want her to return home because they believed she had tarnished their name. Her community too was opposed to women entering the temple," said Prasad Amore.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-46877388

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Meanwhile woman empowerment activist Rahul Gandhi has changed his mind.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In U-turn, Rahul Gandhi now says he cannot take an open-and-shut position on Sabarimala<a href="https://t.co/spsBHU6t7U">https://t.co/spsBHU6t7U</a></p>— Shekhar Gupta (@ShekharGupta) <a href="https://twitter.com/ShekharGupta/status/1084720851512164352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">14 January 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[troodon]

While there are more pressing issues in India, people worry about these kinds of stuff.

Everyone has the right to enter the temple. Why deprive half of the population who want to visit the shrine?

 

[cricketjoshila]

While there are more pressing issues in India, people worry about these kinds of stuff.

Everyone has the right to enter the temple. Why deprive half of the population who want to visit the shrine?

No. Only the believers have right to enter a religious shrine. Its not a public park.

 

[MenInG]

India's Supreme Court has agreed to review its landmark judgement allowing women of menstruating age to enter a controversial Hindu shrine.

A five-judge bench last year ruled that keeping women out of the Sabarimala shrine in the southern state of Kerala was discriminatory.

The verdict led to massive protests in the state.

Women who tried to enter the shrine were either sent back or, in some cases, even assaulted.

The move is likely to anger women who fought hard to win the right to enter the temple.

Hinduism regards menstruating women as unclean and bars them from participating in religious rituals.

Many temples bar women during their periods and many devout women voluntarily stay away, but Sabarimala had a blanket ban on all women between the ages of 10 and 50.

What did the court say?
On Thursday the five-judge bench, responding to dozens of review petitions challenging the court's landmark judgement last year, said that the matter would now be heard by a larger bench.

In doing so, however, it did not stay its earlier order. This means women can still legally enter the temple.

A temple official welcomed the ruling and appealed to women to stay away.

Women trying to enter the temple after the verdict last year were attacked by mobs blocking the way.

Many checked vehicles heading towards the temple to see if any women of a "menstruating age" - deemed to be those aged between 10 and 50 years - were trying to enter.

Following Thursday's verdict, police in Kerala have appealed for calm, saying that action will be taken "against those who take the law into their own hands". They added that social media accounts would be under surveillance and those stoking religious tensions online would be arrested.

'One step forward, two steps back'
Geeta Pandey, BBC News, Delhi

Today's verdict will come as a massive disappointment to women's rights campaigners. It's a case of one step forward, two steps back.

In 2018, while lifting the ban on women's entry into the shrine, the Supreme Court had said that everyone had the right to practice religion and that the ban was a form of "untouchability".

It was seen as a hugely progressive ruling and had given hope to women that they were equal before the law and could now claim equality before the gods too. What happened in court today has taken that sense away.

The Supreme Court has not put its earlier order on hold, but with the ambiguity over women's entry continuing, it's very likely they could be kept out in the name of keeping peace.

With the case now to be reopened by a larger seven-judge bench, the fight will have to be fought all over again.

Why is the temple so controversial?
Part of the violent opposition to the Supreme Court order to reverse the temple's historical ban on women was because protesters felt the ruling goes against the wishes of the deity, Lord Ayappa, himself.

While most Hindu temples allow women to enter as long as they are not menstruating, the Sabarimala temple is unusual in that it was one of the few that did not allow women in a broad age group to enter at all.

Hindu devotees say that the ban on women entering Sabarimala is not about menstruation alone - it is also in keeping with the wish of the deity who is believed to have laid down clear rules about the pilgrimage to seek his blessings.

Every year, millions of male devotees trek up a steep hill, often barefoot, to visit the shrine. They also undertake a rigorous 41-day fast, abstaining from smoking, alcohol, meat, sex and contact with menstruating women before they begin the journey.

Women's rights campaigners who appealed to the Supreme Court to lift the ban said that this custom violated equality guaranteed under India's constitution. They added that it was prejudiced against women and their right to worship.

Supporters of the ban argued that the practice had been in effect for centuries, and there was no need to change it now.

So, were any women able to enter last year?
In January, two women defied protesters and entered the shrine.

Kanakadurga, 39, and Bindu Ammini, 40, made history when they entered the Sabarimala shrine - but they had to do so under heavy police protection and were also met with massive protests after.

Right-wing groups, supported by India's ruling Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), demanded a state-wide shutdown after, and businesses and transportation became paralysed.

Across the state hundreds were arrested, and at least one person was killed in clashes.

In an interview with the BBC, the women said they felt it necessary to uphold women's rights and they weren't afraid of mobs "enraged" by their actions.


Media captionOne of the women who defied protesters to enter the Sabarimala temple says she has 'no fear'
"I am not afraid. But every time women make any progress, society has always made a lot of noise," Ms Kanakadurga told the BBC in January.

But their decision to enter the temple also came at heavy personal cost.

She alleged that she had been beaten by her mother-in-law and abandoned. She has since filed for divorce.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-50415356

 

[Birdman]

Another reason for us to point finger and make fun of religion.

 

[WengerOut]

Supreme Court is a farce these days. Couldve put a stay until the review is complete. This is now paving the way for further chaos by the stupid Saffrons.