Satellite image of 'areas hit' by IAF show virtually no change

[Bilal7]

People who want children to die while having no proof that they are anything but innocent children, have no place in any country, especially not the country to which said children belong.

Absolutely sickening and a shame that the internet allows psychos like these the anonymity to call for the death of children studying the Holy Quran.

 

[Mamoon]

Plenty of nations inc China, Turkey, Arab states and others have stated Pakistan has done a lot to fight terrorism. Who do you think the army has been fighting for the last decade or so? There is no evidence OBL was in Pakistan, only the word of the US, the same nation which lied about WMD's to cause millinos to die.

*Surprise*

A Pakistani hyper-nationalist with a British passport is in denial over the fact that Osama was hiding in Pakistan since 2006. It is a documented fact that Osama was in Pakistan, and it has been admitted by our foreign secretary, former ISI chief as well as various armed forces personnel.

Of course you can also dismiss their testimonies and claim that they are reading from the Pentagon's script. Denial is always easy - all you have to do is to deny. Just like how there are plenty of people who still believe that 9/11 was an inside job, there are plenty of people who don't think Osama was hiding in Pakistan, and the U.S. choppers simply bombarded an empty compound.

Pakistan have fought the militants that have spiralled out of their control and caused destruction within the country. The tipping point was of course the APS attack which resulted in the NAP. However, there are plenty of terrorist organisations that are still roaming free because they are on the military/ISI payroll.

These groups are in place to counter U.S. and Indian proxies in Afghanistan and they have been fighting our in jihad in J&K. All countries have these mercenaries at their disposal, but the problem for Pakistan is that they are thriving in its own backyard. This has been a major reason why Pakistan has suffered so much from terrorism and it will continue to do so unless it wipes out these groups or relocates them outside the borders.

Of course you would trust India, no need to state the obvious. India has lied about hitting terrorists and killing them but you still believe them. lol

I have stated on record that India lied about killing 300 personnel. Their claim was not only dismissed by Pakistan - international forums have not bought their story either, and have categorically proved with satellite images that the buildings are still intact and there is not a shred of evidence of any killings.

If international forums can also categorically prove that the targeted madrassah was not linked with JeM or any other terrorist organisation, I will be more than happy to accept that judgment. Nonetheless, as I stated earlier, Pakistan's word on this subject has no credibility.

So you accept India has terrorists on its books in Afghanistan? You agree with this method too?

If Pakistan supports any group which fights for the defence of Kashmiri's they are not terrorists. Pakistan supports the Taliban, again they are fighting for freedom. So not sure what you mean by no presence in Afghanistan.

What happened in Pulwama was not a fight for defence. It was simply a terrorist attack, and a terrorist group in Pakistan (JeM) claimed responsibility. Again, of course, you can deny it. I told you, nothing is easier than denying things that don't conform to your narrative.

I do not agree with having militants on your payroll, but it is a reality of the modern world. Nearly all major countries have these groups on their payroll who fight their wars. The unique problem for Pakistan is that these elements are within its boundaries, which has escalated the security problems in the last two decades.

We both know you will not speak such nonsense in the open in Paksitan because people will see you as the enemy because you support their narrative and their methods agaisnt your 'own' country. Would you blame them?

Of course I won't, but this is the reason why there is no hope for the country's future. Anyone who does not blindly lap up the Pakistani narrative is labeled a traitor. There is very little tolerance for the opposing viewpoint.

I do not have a high profile position, at least not yet, so I can still make my point without putting myself in trouble. That is why I have nothing but respect for the several influential people in Pakistan and outside Pakistan, who have put their lives in danger by publicly condemning our propaganda, which has played no small part in ensuring that Pakistan is in the state it is today. I wish I had an ounce of courage that they have.

 

[Mamoon]

People who want children to die while having no proof that they are anything but innocent children, have no place in any country, especially not the country to which said children belong.

Absolutely sickening and a shame that the internet allows psychos like these the anonymity to call for the death of children studying the Holy Quran.

Unsurprisingly, you have missed the point.

No one is condoning the death of innocent children. However, you also need to understand that these madrassas are more than just children studying the Holy Quran under the tutelage of harmless Molvis who are only interested in serving the Almighty. Yes there are many madrassas who do nothing more than that, but there are also plenty of madrassas who are basically breeding camps for terrorists.

One of the biggest reasons why terrorists continue to flourish in Pakistan is because of our failure to wipe out these so-called madrassas. In fact, we should not call it our failure - it is our strategy to not eliminate these hideouts because they serve our strategic purposes in Kashmir, Afghanistan and to an extent Balochistan. The biggest problem is not the fact that we have these camps on our payroll - the biggest problem of these camps is their presence within our national boundaries.

As long as groups like JeM, LeT and its political wing JuD as well as other terrorist groups etc. are present in Pakistan and their leaders under state protection, there can never be peace in Pakistan.

As far as loss of innocent life is concerned, it is one of the harsh and bitter realities of war. No war in history has been without repercussions and collateral damage, and it has escalated in modern times because of use of ammunition.

Let's not even talk about the blood of innocent Bengalis on our hand. Do you think our Army has not been responsible for the loss of innocent life or any collateral damage during its attacks on Taliban?

Do you think no children or women died during Lal Masjid siege? Or perhaps you think any attack on a terrorist camp is unjustified if there is even a single loss of innocent life? If that is so, good luck eliminating terrorism.

 

[Madplayer]

Unsurprisingly, you have missed the point.

However, you also need to understand that these madrassas are more than just children studying the Holy Quran under the tutelage of harmless Molvis who are only interested in serving the Almighty. Yes there are many madrassas who do nothing more than that, but there are also plenty of madrassas who are basically breeding camps for terrorists.

I remember Imran Khan once saying that the muslim world lacks intellectual firepower and same is the case with Pakistan. I think as responsible people, we should be sure about what our children are being taught and by whom.

Pakistan and muslim countries need to develop a robust mechanism to produce intellectual moulvis. I think a few steps in this direction could be (if it hasnt been done already) :

1) Get all the religious institutions registered with the government.

2) create a database of all the teachers who teach in these institutes.

3) a basic qualification criteria from a recognised institute of knowledge must be set for anyone who desires to teach in these madrassas.

4) Regular inspection of these Madrassas should be conducted and a review of syllabus must be done from time to time.

It would be a massive task to achieve this, but what needs to be done, needs to be done.

 

[Bilal7]

Unsurprisingly, you have missed the point.

No one is condoning the death of innocent children. However, you also need to understand that these madrassas are more than just children studying the Holy Quran under the tutelage of harmless Molvis who are only interested in serving the Almighty. Yes there are many madrassas who do nothing more than that, but there are also plenty of madrassas who are basically breeding camps for terrorists.

One of the biggest reasons why terrorists continue to flourish in Pakistan is because of our failure to wipe out these so-called madrassas. In fact, we should not call it our failure - it is our strategy to not eliminate these hideouts because they serve our strategic purposes in Kashmir, Afghanistan and to an extent Balochistan. The biggest problem is not the fact that we have these camps on our payroll - the biggest problem of these camps is their presence within our national boundaries.

As long as groups like JeM, LeT and its political wing JuD as well as other terrorist groups etc. are present in Pakistan and their leaders under state protection, there can never be peace in Pakistan.

As far as loss of innocent life is concerned, it is one of the harsh and bitter realities of war. No war in history has been without repercussions and collateral damage, and it has escalated in modern times because of use of ammunition.

Let's not even talk about the blood of innocent Bengalis on our hand. Do you think our Army has not been responsible for the loss of innocent life or any collateral damage during its attacks on Taliban?

Do you think no children or women died during Lal Masjid siege? Or perhaps you think any attack on a terrorist camp is unjustified if there is even a single loss of innocent life? If that is so, good luck eliminating terrorism.

I am not interested in you justifying the murder of children just because YOU do not believe that this madrassah was anything more than an institute for learning. The burden of proof lies on the collective shoulders of the Indian Armed Forces and their sympathizers (i.e. you), not the Pak army. You cannot prove that a person is not a terrorist without wasting extensive resources, but you can surely prove that they are. Being innocent until proven guilty is a concept that you seem to have forgotten. Pessimism and negativity surely does take its toll, I guess.

It is inhumane and frankly disgusting to treat children like collateral damage. People like you are what is wrong with the world we live in today. There are many other ways in which terrorists and dissenters can be neutralized which do not involve blowing up whole buildings and villages. That does nothing but increase terrorism, genius. What would you do if an army drone dropped a bomb in your neighbourhood citing the presence of terrorists as an excuse?

Better yet, how about you volunteer to press the proverbial trigger any time the army decides to bomb a civilian settlement so that when the survivors of that horror inevitably decide to strike back, it is your children and family they target and not the soldiers'.

I do not condone many of the Pak army's actions. I am not a blind patriot nor am I some warmonger who is saddened that children were not bombed.

 

[Bilal7]

I remember Imran Khan once saying that the muslim world lacks intellectual firepower and same is the case with Pakistan. I think as responsible people, we should be sure about what our children are being taught and by whom.

Pakistan and muslim countries need to develop a robust mechanism to produce intellectual moulvis. I think a few steps in this direction could be (if it hasnt been done already) :

1) Get all the religious institutions registered with the government.

2) create a database of all the teachers who teach in these institutes.

3) a basic qualification criteria from a recognised institute of knowledge must be set for anyone who desires to teach in these madrassas.

4) Regular inspection of these Madrassas should be conducted and a review of syllabus must be done from time to time.

It would be a massive task to achieve this, but what needs to be done, needs to be done.

I'm sure you have an idea about what this will accomplish given that you say it needs to be done. For example, what will having a database on maulanas do? I'm sure you're not suggesting that this be a way to spy on their personal lives.

The idea of terrorists being religiously motivated is an outdated one. It is all about politics and nationalism. Islam actually has very strong restrictions on things like revolutions because of the bloodshed that accompanies them.

 

[Adijazz1706]

I remember Imran Khan once saying that the muslim world lacks intellectual firepower and same is the case with Pakistan. I think as responsible people, we should be sure about what our children are being taught and by whom.

Pakistan and muslim countries need to develop a robust mechanism to produce intellectual moulvis. I think a few steps in this direction could be (if it hasnt been done already) :

1) Get all the religious institutions registered with the government.

2) create a database of all the teachers who teach in these institutes.

3) a basic qualification criteria from a recognised institute of knowledge must be set for anyone who desires to teach in these madrassas.

4) Regular inspection of these Madrassas should be conducted and a review of syllabus must be done from time to time.

It would be a massive task to achieve this, but what needs to be done, needs to be done.

Why is this important? The local kashmiri militants who've been in the news recently rarely look like molvis, in fact most of them don't even have a proper beard. They didn't need any madrassas to be 'radicalized' as you might call it. Unless there is proof that some madrassa is creating terrorists, there is no reason to interfere in their functioning

 

[Greenstorm]

Why is this important? The local kashmiri militants who've been in the news recently rarely look like molvis, in fact most of them don't even have a proper beard. They didn't need any madrassas to be 'radicalized' as you might call it. Unless there is proof that some madrassa is creating terrorists, there is no reason to interfere in their functioning

Students completing their studies from madrassas are basically useless when it comes to development of the country. All they have is skewed knowledge of Islam which does more harm than good in our society.
Millions of youth are being wasted in madrassas and that is why IK is so serious about this issue.

 

[Bilal7]

Students completing their studies from madrassas are basically useless when it comes to development of the country. All they have is skewed knowledge of Islam which does more harm than good in our society.
Millions of youth are being wasted in madrassas and that is why IK is so serious about this issue.

Another liberal Pakistani who thinks he has the right to interfere in what other people do with their lives.

 

[Greenstorm]

Another liberal Pakistani who thinks he has the right to interfere in what other people do with their lives.

This is the first time I have been called liberal and I do not like it . I do not know if you have interacted with students of madrassas because if you did, your views would have been different.

Also I cannot interfere in anyone's life but government should. We need massive reforms to set us on the path of progress and to change mindset of our people, government should interfere and I am sure it will under Imran who has been saying for years that their should be singular educational system through out the country.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Students completing their studies from madrassas are basically useless when it comes to development of the country. All they have is skewed knowledge of Islam which does more harm than good in our society.
Millions of youth are being wasted in madrassas and that is why IK is so serious about this issue.

Their knowledge may look slewed to you because you do not have enough knowledge of Islam. Anyway, not everyone in the country can contribute to economic development by joining the wage slaves, some people have other goals in life

 

[Mp812]

Really is getting silly now

Unless some special new weapon used which just eliminates humans and not buildings, I would say truth deficit is an issue from the India govt

Data Science diagnosis show Balakot may or may not be hit
https://herald.dawn.com/news/139883...ence-tells-us-about-what-went-down-in-balakot

 

[Bilal7]

This is the first time I have been called liberal and I do not like it . I do not know if you have interacted with students of madrassas because if you did, your views would have been different.

Also I cannot interfere in anyone's life but government should. We need massive reforms to set us on the path of progress and to change mindset of our people, government should interfere and I am sure it will under Imran who has been saying for years that their should be singular educational system through out the country.

Some of my close friends here are ulema from Pakistan, who are far more respected than engineers and doctors from the same country who are working as uber drivers. Also, a couple of my cousins became huffaz from a madarsa and then went on to become engineers.

If you think the Pakistani government should interfere in the private lives of its citizens, it is you who should consider getting re-educated.

 

[KingKhanWC]

*Surprise*

A Pakistani hyper-nationalist with a British passport is in denial over the fact that Osama was hiding in Pakistan since 2006. It is a documented fact that Osama was in Pakistan, and it has been admitted by our foreign secretary, former ISI chief as well as various armed forces personnel.

Of course you can also dismiss their testimonies and claim that they are reading from the Pentagon's script. Denial is always easy - all you have to do is to deny. Just like how there are plenty of people who still believe that 9/11 was an inside job, there are plenty of people who don't think Osama was hiding in Pakistan, and the U.S. choppers simply bombarded an empty compound.

Pakistan have fought the militants that have spiralled out of their control and caused destruction within the country. The tipping point was of course the APS attack which resulted in the NAP. However, there are plenty of terrorist organisations that are still roaming free because they are on the military/ISI payroll.

These groups are in place to counter U.S. and Indian proxies in Afghanistan and they have been fighting our in jihad in J&K. All countries have these mercenaries at their disposal, but the problem for Pakistan is that they are thriving in its own backyard. This has been a major reason why Pakistan has suffered so much from terrorism and it will continue to do so unless it wipes out these groups or relocates them outside the borders.


I have stated on record that India lied about killing 300 personnel. Their claim was not only dismissed by Pakistan - international forums have not bought their story either, and have categorically proved with satellite images that the buildings are still intact and there is not a shred of evidence of any killings.

If international forums can also categorically prove that the targeted madrassah was not linked with JeM or any other terrorist organisation, I will be more than happy to accept that judgment. Nonetheless, as I stated earlier, Pakistan's word on this subject has no credibility.



What happened in Pulwama was not a fight for defence. It was simply a terrorist attack, and a terrorist group in Pakistan (JeM) claimed responsibility. Again, of course, you can deny it. I told you, nothing is easier than denying things that don't conform to your narrative.

I do not agree with having militants on your payroll, but it is a reality of the modern world. Nearly all major countries have these groups on their payroll who fight their wars. The unique problem for Pakistan is that these elements are within its boundaries, which has escalated the security problems in the last two decades.


Of course I won't, but this is the reason why there is no hope for the country's future. Anyone who does not blindly lap up the Pakistani narrative is labeled a traitor. There is very little tolerance for the opposing viewpoint.

I do not have a high profile position, at least not yet, so I can still make my point without putting myself in trouble. That is why I have nothing but respect for the several influential people in Pakistan and outside Pakistan, who have put their lives in danger by publicly condemning our propaganda, which has played no small part in ensuring that Pakistan is in the state it is today. I wish I had an ounce of courage that they have.

It doesn't matter who I am or where I am from, many people in America don't believe the OBL lie. No proof was given and its the word of proven liars which is being taken for granted.

India was most like behing the APS attack and most attacks in Pakistan. Pak has their spy in custody and since then atttacks have reduced considerably.

It is up to India to prove terrorists were present living in tree houses not for Pakistan or anyone else to disapprove this. Or we can make a bollywood flim called Return of the Terrorist Apes if you wish.

A Kashmiri was resisting the occupier which is not terrorism.

I dare you to speak those words openly in Pakistan and see for yourself if even 5% of Pakistanis agree with you or majority call you a traitor.