Searching for Pakistan's Middle Overs Magician: Spin Bowling Dilemma in the World Cup

[Farabi]

In the upcoming World Cup, all top teams are set to employ an attacking spinner during the middle overs to make a significant impact. England will rely on Adil Rashid, Australia on Adam Zampa, and India on Kuldeep Yadav. The question arises: What is Pakistan's solution?

Historically, Pakistan has faced the disappointment of losing crucial matches against strong opponents, even when they had them cornered. While improving Babar's captaincy to be more aggressive is one aspect, the absence of a wicket-taking spinner remains a concern.

Players like Imad, Shadab, and Nawaz provide defensive options and have their roles. However, the real question is, who can be the match-winning spinner?

Option 1 - Usama Mir: Usama is relatively new but has shown promise in long-form cricket and recently performed well in List A matches. While he can be inconsistent, his ability to generate bounce holds potential.

Option 2 - Abrar Ahmed: Abrar is a mystery spinner with the element of surprise in his favor. He can turn the ball and offers variety. However, his lack of experience in limited-overs internationals is a drawback.

Someone else?

 

[Major]

abrar ahmad is slow in the air. Usama mir is a good option.

 

[Ahmed216]

Nawaz ahead of Usama Mir is a defensive choice. Gone are the days

 

[Justcrazy]

Pakistan do not want proper spinner , they want someone who can bat.

Even Bob Woolmer had same mindset , he used Afridi and Malik as his spinners , not selecting proper spin options.

 

[sam_ahm]

The one thing I've been saying for long. Yesterday the end score was 50-50 but realty is that Pakistan should have probably bowled us out for about 200. In fact in the end Pak pulled back things else Ind could have got 300 after being 66/4.

Abrar hasn't been tried at all, so he can't get into the side blindly. Usama Mir hasn't impressed much but on topic, this is Pak's big area of concern. A good attacking spinner is needed in the side ahead of someone like Nawaz.

 

[VForVendetta]

At this stage of their respective careers both Abrar & Osama are extremely raw & need a lot of tuning. Big 3 will murder them ruthlessly on those placid Indian batting paradises. The best solution is to go with a guy who has control & atleast won't be tonked around the park. Imad along with Shadab is the best possible scenario. Imad will not run down oppositions but very rarely he will go for more more than 6 r.p.o. whereas with Nawaz you can't even go with a defensive strategy. He is just a hopeless case at the moment. The hammering he took from Virat & Pandya last year has scarred him permanently. I am not sure if he will ever be able to recover from that humiliation. It's not a new strategy for Pakistan, for most of 2000's this is the approach they had adopted for odi after the Mushtaq twins were finished. Afridi, Malik or Hafeez were used as run controlling options which allowed Shoaib,Sami,Rana,Gul,Asif etc to go for the kills. It's only since 07/08 when Ajmal arrived & it became painfully obvious that Afridi wasn't simply good enough as a batsman anymore against fast bowlers that they started to deploy spinners as attacking options. Current Pak don't have that luxury since no Mushtaq, Ajmal or Afridi are available.

 

[Farah Sohail]

We need Abrar

 

[Farabi]

At this stage of their respective careers both Abrar & Osama are extremely raw & need a lot of tuning. Big 3 will murder them ruthlessly on those placid Indian batting paradises. The best solution is to go with a guy who has control & atleast won't be tonked around the park. Imad along with Shadab is the best possible scenario. Imad will not run down oppositions but very rarely he will go for more more than 6 r.p.o. whereas with Nawaz you can't even go with a defensive strategy. He is just a hopeless case at the moment. The hammering he took from Virat & Pandya last year has scarred him permanently. I am not sure if he will ever be able to recover from that humiliation. It's not a new strategy for Pakistan, for most of 2000's this is the approach they had adopted for odi after the Mushtaq twins were finished. Afridi, Malik or Hafeez were used as run controlling options which allowed Shoaib,Sami,Rana,Gul,Asif etc to go for the kills. It's only since 07/08 when Ajmal arrived & it became painfully obvious that Afridi wasn't simply good enough as a batsman anymore against fast bowlers that they started to deploy spinners as attacking options. Current Pak don't have that luxury since no Mushtaq, Ajmal or Afridi are available.

Yeah but our bowling was not penetrative in 2000s and we lost a lot of games not being able to defend. Our bowling actually improved from 2008 to 2013 when we had Ajmal and Afridi bowling in the middle overs.
So this says that we need a specialist spinner.

 

[Stewie]

I vote for Abrar

 

[Bewal Express]

Mir was awful against Afg, just as bad as Shadab. Abrar is an unknown quantity because T20 , mystery bowlers don't always translate into good ODI bowlers.

 

[Stewie]

Mir was awful against Afg, just as bad as Shadab. Abrar is an unknown quantity because T20 , mystery bowlers don't always translate into good ODI bowlers.

You do realize that Abrar has mainly played in tests for us, right?

 

[Bewal Express]

You do realize that Abrar has mainly played in tests for us, right?

Yes, but he is a T20 bowler in franchise cricket. He offers more of a threat than Shadab and Nawaz but noone knows whether his lack of pace will be asset or a liability.

 

[Stewie]

Yes, but he is a T20 bowler in franchise cricket. He offers more of a threat than Shadab and Nawaz but noone knows whether his lack of pace will be asset or a liability.

If an ODI or Test caliber bowler plays franchise cricket, does he become solely a T20 bowler,
Abrar has played more first class cricket than franchise cricket. His List A average is below 26, ER below 5.

you can dismiss him for other flaws but not “because he is a T 20 bowler”. Where the rest of the world is treating ODIs as an extension of T20 cricket, and England is playing tests like T20s… Pakistanis still want to pigeonhole players based on Falana tamkana formats.

Sometimes ballsy selections help you go far in the World Cup. One such move was Razzaq in 99 at one down and everybody was extremely pissed at the move but it worked. Lots of other such inspired selections.

Pakistan need to show balls. It’s quite clear our spinners don’t have the bite to trouble top quality batsmen. We need a proper spinner who has variations.. whether it’s Abrar or someone else… I don’t know but Nawaz doesn’t impress me, Shadab you cannot sit out so it has to be either nawaz or someone else but we will go far with a proper spinner to back the three pacers.

 

[Bewal Express]

If an ODI or Test caliber bowler plays franchise cricket, does he become solely a T20 bowler,
Abrar has played more first class cricket than franchise cricket. His List A average is below 26, ER below 5.

you can dismiss him for other flaws but not “because he is a T 20 bowler”. Where the rest of the world is treating ODIs as an extension of T20 cricket, and England is playing tests like T20s… Pakistanis still want to pigeonhole players based on Falana tamkana formats.

Sometimes ballsy selections help you go far in the World Cup. One such move was Razzaq in 99 at one down and everybody was extremely pissed at the move but it worked. Lots of other such inspired selections.

Pakistan need to show balls. It’s quite clear our spinners don’t have the bite to trouble top quality batsmen. We need a proper spinner who has variations.. whether it’s Abrar or someone else… I don’t know but Nawaz doesn’t impress me, Shadab you cannot sit out so it has to be either nawaz or someone else but we will go far with a proper spinner to back the three pacers.

He may turn out to be the gun, wicket taking bowler in the middle overs but he should have been played by now. To win the WC these guys have to spin the ball, and bowl with control. A very tall order

 

[VForVendetta]

Yeah but our bowling was not penetrative in 2000s and we lost a lot of games not being able to defend. Our bowling actually improved from 2008 to 2013 when we had Ajmal and Afridi bowling in the middle overs.
So this says that we need a specialist spinner.

Ofcourse you need a specialist spinner. But the point is, where's that guy or more significantly who's that guy? It's painfully obvious Neither Mir nor Nawaz are those options. Is it Abrar that you suggest like few others here have already mentioned?
Because based on what I saw from the guy specially against Eng I have no doubt in my mind he'll be tonked around & taken apart by the elite sides. He may get a 3/4 wicket haul but he will be very very expensive. You mustn't forget similar experiments with Yasir & Kaneria failed miserably in past. Batting has become even more ruthless since then,margin of error specially for a spinner is little to none.
I am pretty sure if somebody like Saqlain or Ajmal or atleast Afridi caliber guy was available in domestic circuit he would have been already fast tracked or would have featured in PSL. That means current lot is the best stock available & from them only Imad potentially ensures safe economical bowling. With 3 aggressive wicket taking fast bowlers if your spinners can just keep it under 5/5.5 & chip in with occasional breakthroughs they'll do a fine job. On that scenario Imad & Shadab pairing is the best option.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

we dont need only good spinner but we also need who can bat as well down the order.

 

[Farabi]

Ofcourse you need a specialist spinner. But the point is, where's that guy or more significantly who's that guy? It's painfully obvious Neither Mir nor Nawaz are those options. Is it Abrar that you suggest like few others here have already mentioned?
Because based on what I saw from the guy specially against Eng I have no doubt in my mind he'll be tonked around & taken apart by the elite sides. He may get a 3/4 wicket haul but he will be very very expensive. You mustn't forget similar experiments with Yasir & Kaneria failed miserably in past. Batting has become even more ruthless since then,margin of error specially for a spinner is little to none.
I am pretty sure if somebody like Saqlain or Ajmal or atleast Afridi caliber guy was available in domestic circuit he would have been already fast tracked or would have featured in PSL. That means current lot is the best stock available & from them only Imad potentially ensures safe economical bowling. With 3 aggressive wicket taking fast bowlers if your spinners can just keep it under 5/5.5 & chip in with occasional breakthroughs they'll do a fine job. On that scenario Imad & Shadab pairing is the best option.

You've raised some valid points. While Abrar struggled in that one test match in Pindi, he performed economically in the SL series when conditions favored him. It's worth noting that historically, Indian pitches are more spinner-friendly compared to Pakistani pitches. Statistics on this forum have highlighted that Pakistani pitches favor fast bowlers. In India, wrist spinners have a significant role to play, as seen in the IPL and India's home games. I agree that Imad and Shady sharing 10 overs, with a pacer bowling the other 10, is a reasonable option.
But Abrar worth a gamble?

 

[Rana]

You need to trust Usama Mir. He will come good

 

[Farabi]

we dont need only good spinner but we also need who can bat as well down the order.

This line of thinking brings us back to Nawaz and Imad. We need an attacking spinner, a specialist. Batting is a bonus.
We don’t play Naseem, Shaheen because they bat well down the order right? Then why wear a different hat for spinners?
WC is not in Aus, it’s in India. I get people have scars from the recent T20 WC in Aus, but the conditions are going to be very different in India.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

You need to trust Usama Mir. He will come good

i dont think he is effective enough. shaky in batting and fielding too so i will go for any fast bowling all rounder like faheem ashraf.

 

[Stewie]

Imam, Babar, fakhar, Rizwan, iftikhar, (another batsman), shadab, plus naseem, Afridi and Rauf who can all hit and here we are insisting we want a spinner who can also bat. Why?

In a 50 over game if you don’t expect the top 7 to come good, perhaps you should quit cricket.

I insist we need to stop persisting with bits and pieces players. Stuff like that gave third rate guys like Hafeez and Malik their careers. You will never win world cups with that caliber of players.

You need proper bowlers and batsmen. That’s as simple as I can put it. If it lengthens your tail so be it. 10 overs going for 0/80 runs or 10 overs going for 2-3 /60 makes the difference between victory and defeat.

The whole world has been watching and know which twenty overs to target against Pakistan. It’s the middle ones with bits and pieces bowlers. Expect them to come hard at these guys. I pray Shadab improves. Cause there is no way we will drop him. But I also pray we find a proper spinner, find him quick and play him in the World Cup.

 

[Farabi]

Imam, Babar, fakhar, Rizwan, iftikhar, (another batsman), shadab, plus naseem, Afridi and Rauf who can all hit and here we are insisting we want a spinner who can also bat. Why?

In a 50 over game if you don’t expect the top 7 to come good, perhaps you should quit cricket.

I insist we need to stop persisting with bits and pieces players. Stuff like that gave third rate guys like Hafeez and Malik their careers. You will never win world cups with that caliber of players.

You need proper bowlers and batsmen. That’s as simple as I can put it. If it lengthens your tail so be it. 10 overs going for 0/80 runs or 10 overs going for 2-3 /60 makes the difference between victory and defeat.

The whole world has been watching and know which twenty overs to target against Pakistan. It’s the middle ones with bits and pieces bowlers. Expect them to come hard at these guys. I pray Shadab improves. Cause there is no way we will drop him. But I also pray we find a proper spinner, find him quick and play him in the World Cup.

100% aligned.
People are confusing T20 with ODI cricket.

Building on what you said, what are the options?

1. Bring another pacer at no 8th. We have a few options here with Jr and Ihansullah (if fit).
2. Take a gamble with Usama or Abrar?

 

[Stewie]

100% aligned.
People are confusing T20 with ODI cricket.

Building on what you said, what are the options?

1. Bring another pacer at no 8th. We have a few options here with Jr and Ihansullah (if fit).
2. Take a gamble with Usama or Abrar?

No we need a spinner. We have Fahim Ashraf if we need to switch between pacer and spinner. But I think we need a genuine spinner regardless. Not the Imad wasim types. Is it hard to think we have a genuine ball tweaker in list A cricket in Pakistan?

 

[Bewal Express]

No we need a spinner. We have Fahim Ashraf if we need to switch between pacer and spinner. But I think we need a genuine spinner regardless. Not the Imad wasim types. Is it hard to think we have a genuine ball tweaker in list A cricket in Pakistan?

Asghar was the only guy that gave it a rip but soon he was back amongst the pack of the non spinning spinners.

 

[Farah Sohail]

Abrar must be selected but seems Pak team management has no plans to include him in squad

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Not a single decent LOI spinner? What have the mangement been doing for the last the 5 years?

 

[pakistani pride]

Shadab needs to be dropped. Has become a bits n pieces player.

 

[mominsaigol]

Indian pitches are batting paradise usually judging from ipl.

Why aren't we going for a 4th pacer? Especially when we dominated India with pace in Sri Lanka which is supposed to be a spin pitch?

If we had a 4th pacer like zaman Khan, the problem of risk of playing spin at the back end and India's recovery would be halted?

India is playing 4 pacers and 2 spinners only. Why aren't we doing that when pace is our strong suit? The only option we have is abrar who's a risk due to the fact that we don't know how he'll perform in odi.

 

[mominsaigol]

Shadab needs to be dropped. Has become a bits n pieces player.

He saved us in the Afghanistan series and was goated. The pitch didn't suit spinners due to rain. Rashid khan got tonked today due to lack of spin on a lahori pitch.

 

[Stewie]

I dont think personally Shadab or nawaz need to be dropped. One of them can play in the team, we can rotate. We just need the fifth bowler a genuine spinner. Between Shadab and nawaz, that’s twenty overs of mediocre spin. If we use agha Salman, he can share the workload but the equation is still 20 overs that the opposition can take us for runs.

 

[hitthestump]

Abrar is not the answer at this late stage. Completely undercooked, has never played an ODI before and cannot bat.

On most pitches i think we just have to give Nawaz's spot to a 4th seamer and let Shadab and Salman share the spin burden.

If the pitch is a dustbowl then pick Usama Mir as 3rd spinner. At least he is more attacking than mediocre Nawaz.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Abrar is not the answer at this late stage. Completely undercooked, has never played an ODI before and cannot bat.

On most pitches i think we just have to give Nawaz's spot to a 4th seamer and let Shadab and Salman share the spin burden.

If the pitch is a dustbowl then pick Usama Mir as 3rd spinner. At least he is more attacking than mediocre Nawaz.

nobody is undercoked who is playing at the international level.. its all about giving them a chance to prove themself. i think abrar can do really well in ODIs.

 

[lahoriyah1234]

Those who talk about dropping Shadab are crazy…He is an all rounder who can ball and bat. Its not like pallakelle was rank turner, the pitch was tailer made for high scoring match. You could tell from Indian batting after 20 overs they tonked spinners. Babar should have gone for the kill, but I don’t know what is stopping him from taking that risk.

I want Fahim ashraf in place of agha salman. For spinners Pakistan is fine for the world cup no one in world cricket has great spinners apart from Afghanistan.

My Team for Match Against India….

Fakhar
Rizwan
Imam
Babar
Saud
Iftikhar
Shabab
Fahim
Naseem
Shaheen
Rauf

 

[hitthestump]

nobody is undercoked who is playing at the international level.. its all about giving them a chance to prove themself. i think abrar can do really well in ODIs.

It will never happen in this WC. If we needed Abrar we should have played more ODI's leading up to this tournament to test him out. We didn't and we have now run out of time, so he is not an option.

 

[Stewie]

I remember the times when Pakistan was known for just grabbing a young talent and throwing it in the deep end for it to figure out how to swim. More often than not, the talent would end up storming onto the world stage.

 

[CricLegend]

There were a couple of spinners that recently played in the Emerging Asia Cup Final. There was that left arm chinaman spinner, he bowled well in the final, I think he took 3 wickets. I forgot his name. Is he worth a shout?

 

[Farabi]

There were a couple of spinners that recently played in the Emerging Asia Cup Final. There was that left arm chinaman spinner, he bowled well in the final, I think he took 3 wickets. I forgot his name. Is he worth a shout?

I think you mean Sufiyan Muqeem. I don’t know much about him, but why not.
Realistically though, Babar’s pattern of thinking prioritizes consistency in selection so I expect more minor changes.
If Nawaz is replaced, it would likely be from within this squad unless there are fitness concerns.
So Faheem or Jr are the likely replacements.

 

[moghul]

Shadab can't be dropped due to being VC and he can bat and is the best fielder , his bowling is just OK. Nawaz is a mediocre player and a weak link when in the team. Mir is just not good enough for the world cup, lack control to be economical in middle overs and to put pressure on the batsman . Unfortunately , we don't have any choice by going with Shadab and Imad in the WC. But, Babar's personal issues with Imad will not let him make a come back.

 

[shamaan]

Yes, but he is a T20 bowler in franchise cricket. He offers more of a threat than Shadab and Nawaz but noone knows whether his lack of pace will be asset or a liability.

How many games did he play in psl ?

 

[Cricket Warrior]

This line of thinking brings us back to Nawaz and Imad. We need an attacking spinner, a specialist. Batting is a bonus.
We don’t play Naseem, Shaheen because they bat well down the order right? Then why wear a different hat for spinners?
WC is not in Aus, it’s in India. I get people have scars from the recent T20 WC in Aus, but the conditions are going to be very different in India.

Believe me, batting in Australia is still less challenging compared to batting on slow-spinning wickets. So we shouldn't depend solely on sloggers instead we require someone who can play with finesse and take control of the game with their batting skills lower down the order and immad wasim has that ability.

 

[Marooned]

At this stage of their respective careers both Abrar & Osama are extremely raw & need a lot of tuning. Big 3 will murder them ruthlessly on those placid Indian batting paradises. The best solution is to go with a guy who has control & atleast won't be tonked around the park. Imad along with Shadab is the best possible scenario. Imad will not run down oppositions but very rarely he will go for more more than 6 r.p.o. whereas with Nawaz you can't even go with a defensive strategy. He is just a hopeless case at the moment. The hammering he took from Virat & Pandya last year has scarred him permanently. I am not sure if he will ever be able to recover from that humiliation. It's not a new strategy for Pakistan, for most of 2000's this is the approach they had adopted for odi after the Mushtaq twins were finished. Afridi, Malik or Hafeez were used as run controlling options which allowed Shoaib,Sami,Rana,Gul,Asif etc to go for the kills. It's only since 07/08 when Ajmal arrived & it became painfully obvious that Afridi wasn't simply good enough as a batsman anymore against fast bowlers that they started to deploy spinners as attacking options. Current Pak don't have that luxury since no Mushtaq, Ajmal or Afridi are available.

Agree with this view. Imad is the best solution for Pakistan presently.

People just look at his odi avg and think he's bad but he rarely has a bad game even on batting friendly tracks. He keeps getting 1-45 kind of spells which translate to a high odi average but actually work really well in a match scenario.

Plus, he is proper allrounder. 100x better bet than nawaz. There's zero justification for keeping Imad out.

 

[Justcrazy]

Pakistan has specialist spinner problem in Test Matches as well. They need to sacrifice the obsession with extra batsman or they get in Fahim Ashraf as well and look to bat out oppositions.

 

[owenhcricket]

The issue, as some have already raised, is that Pakistan lacks a quality specialist spinner. This has been problematic for a while now...Shadab gets away with it because he can take wickets but also bats well and is improving in that department. Everyone else lacks severely in both departments, whether it be Nawaz or flavour of the month Mir.

Abrar Ahmed is being touted but he doesn't play enough domestic cricket so no one has nay idea if he is good enough with just 12 list A games.

And whatever happened to Umer Khan? How has he not played any FC cricket in almost 3 years and barely anything else in the last 2?

 

[VForVendetta]

Agree with this view. Imad is the best solution for Pakistan presently.

People just look at his odi avg and think he's bad but he rarely has a bad game even on batting friendly tracks. He keeps getting 1-45 kind of spells which translate to a high odi average but actually work really well in a match scenario.

Plus, he is proper allrounder. 100x better bet than nawaz. There's zero justification for keeping Imad out.

I think everyone already knows why he isn't included. This is now onto Mickey to take the initiative, because you know damn well Injamam isn't going to do that. Pak already have enough problems in their batting & fielding, the best they can do is sort out their bowling.They've never won a major tournament without bulk of contributions from bowlers, this time around is not going to be different. Mickey needs to be the hard taskmaster & put down the law if anybody's ego & personal issues appear before team's best interest.

 

[shamaan]

I think everyone already knows why he isn't included. This is now onto Mickey to take the initiative, because you know damn well Injamam isn't going to do that. Pak already have enough problems in their batting & fielding, the best they can do is sort out their bowling.They've never won a major tournament without bulk of contributions from bowlers, this time around is not going to be different. Mickey needs to be the hard taskmaster & put down the law if anybody's ego & personal issues appear before team's best interest.

Pakistan fielding has massively improved.

 

[VForVendetta]

Pakistan fielding has massively improved.

They may have improved but still have a tendency to make school boy errors in big matches ; the previous match was precisely the example. Same thing happened at 21 t20 wc semi & last asia cup final. Their catching has definitely improved where they have come a long way from the dark days of 90's/00's, but the ground fielding? It's still pretty ordinary & substandard. Only Afgans are worse than them from this region. If their bowling & fielding can click together & somehow maintain a decent standard then it will help them to fill in for their shaky uncertain batting.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

With the current popularity of finger spinners and carom ball spinners in modern cricket, it would be good to consider giving Abrar a chance in ODIs.

He has the potential to perform admirably in this format and he also possesses wicket-taking abilities which he has proved in Test Cricket.

 

[sam_ahm]

Once again Pakistan struggling to take wickets in the middle overs after serious damage done by the fast bowlers at the top. This can be the biggest drawback for Pakistan at the WC and you cannot go into such a big tournament like this.

Pakistan have left it too late, they've only tried Usama Mir and Nawaz, Abrar was not trusted enough. I don't think they can do much now.

I can assure you, most of the wickets in India are going to assist spin. There is no way we are going to prepare dead tracks for an event like the WC , we will play to our strength, which is turning tracks.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Once again Pakistan struggling to take wickets in the middle overs after serious damage done by the fast bowlers at the top. This can be the biggest drawback for Pakistan at the WC and you cannot go into such a big tournament like this.

Pakistan have left it too late, they've only tried Usama Mir and Nawaz, Abrar was not trusted enough. I don't think they can do much now.

I can assure you, most of the wickets in India are going to assist spin. There is no way we are going to prepare dead tracks for an event like the WC , we will play to our strength, which is turning tracks.

BCCI don’t prepare the pitches.

 

[Ummii]

This is not a good thing, and I am afraid this will going to hunt at the biggest stage (Yes during the world cup). I am not sure why our management is so blind, I am not against Shadab but trust me he won't set as a full time spinner option. We can have him as an allrounder.

 

[Stewie]

Once again Pakistan struggling to take wickets in the middle overs after serious damage done by the fast bowlers at the top. This can be the biggest drawback for Pakistan at the WC and you cannot go into such a big tournament like this.

Pakistan have left it too late, they've only tried Usama Mir and Nawaz, Abrar was not trusted enough. I don't think they can do much now.

I can assure you, most of the wickets in India are going to assist spin. There is no way we are going to prepare dead tracks for an event like the WC , we will play to our strength, which is turning tracks.

I dont think you realize that India has not been a force when it comes to playing on turning tracks for years now. Most current indian batsmen are really bad playing spin. They are great against pace though. I think this change has come about post IPL.

I think its in the best interest of the ICC that India goes at least to the semis. So they will make sure the pitches for the world cup are either flat or hard with good pace and bounce because thats where Indians thrive, when the ball comes onto the bat nice and quick. I think the turning tracks is the last thing you can expect in this world cup. it will only assist sides like SRL, BD and make Pakistani slow bowlers look like spinners.

 

[Nasty Naz]

Shadab needs to be dropped. Has become a bits n pieces player.

Typical and fickle Pakistani fans as usual. He was just their best player in the Afghanistan series and their most consistent one during WC's.

God forbid if he ever has a so-so match in unhelpful spinners conditions.

 

[sam_ahm]

I dont think you realize that India has not been a force when it comes to playing on turning tracks for years now. Most current indian batsmen are really bad playing spin. They are great against pace though. I think this change has come about post IPL.

I think its in the best interest of the ICC that India goes at least to the semis. So they will make sure the pitches for the world cup are either flat or hard with good pace and bounce because thats where Indians thrive, when the ball comes onto the bat nice and quick. I think the turning tracks is the last thing you can expect in this world cup. it will only assist sides like SRL, BD and make Pakistani slow bowlers look like spinners.

If that was the case we wouldn't have played home tests on Rank Turners for years now. More importantly if you notice all of India's game against non-subcontinent teams at the WC are at grounds that traditionally support turning tracks... Aus at Chennai, Eng at Lucknow, RSA at Kolkata . . . Only India-NZ at Dharamsala is a bit of a surprise.

I do agree that Indian batters thrive on flat decks and not necessarily on turning wickets, but I think India will back their spinners to out perform the opposition spinners at the WC.

 

[sam_ahm]

BCCI don’t prepare the pitches.

Lol, you think ICC can do anything to stop the BCCI if they wish to prepare?

 

[Vikram1989]

Lol, you think ICC can do anything to stop the BCCI if they wish to prepare?

https://www.tbsnews.net/sports/prepare-batting-friendly-pitches-icc-tells-world-cup-curators-688914

All the time icc pitch consultant will overlook the pitches for icc tournaments. It's norm from past 15 years I believe

 

[Stewie]

If that was the case we wouldn't have played home tests on Rank Turners for years now. More importantly if you notice all of India's game against non-subcontinent teams at the WC are at grounds that traditionally support turning tracks... Aus at Chennai, Eng at Lucknow, RSA at Kolkata . . . Only India-NZ at Dharamsala is a bit of a surprise.

I do agree that Indian batters thrive on flat decks and not necessarily on turning wickets, but I think India will back their spinners to out perform the opposition spinners at the WC.

What do you mean "if that was the case.."

That is the truth, whether you are unaware of it or not does not make the fact disappear. There are well documented stats to prove it. Have a look at this article:

India's spin-playing endemic

The decline in performance against tweakers from the top batters is becoming a worry for the hosts

www.newindianexpress.com

India might still be producing turning tracks for tests but in ODIs the pitches are pretty much homoegenous the world over anyway. They naturally start turning due to the nature of the sandy soil that crumbles after getting baked under the hot sun for hours, but thats beside the point. India will want bat friendly hard bouncy surfaces and not slow and low tracks. and I would not be surprised if the world cup features mostly such tracks.

 

[Markhor]

I can understand spinners toiling to take wickets on flat Pakistani wickets. However Shadab and Nawaz didn't look like creating even a half chance vs India in Pallekele !

If you can't take wickets in Sri Lanka, one of the best venues for spin in the world, where can you ?

That's one reason why I supported the switch to four seamers.

The other is there's a mistaken assumption (which I admittedly held too) that spin is king on Indian pitches. However spin averages 44.03 in ODIs in India since 2019 WC - pace averages 32.69. So all the more reason to back our strength.

 

[owenhcricket]

This is not a good thing, and I am afraid this will going to hunt at the biggest stage (Yes during the world cup). I am not sure why our management is so blind, I am not against Shadab but trust me he won't set as a full time spinner option. We can have him as an allrounder.

He is playing as an all rounder. The issue is either one of Salman or Nawaz needs to be replaced by a full time spinner.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Lol, you think ICC can do anything to stop the BCCI if they wish to prepare?

If BCCI had that much power then they’d be able to do that in every tournament held outside of India.

 

[shamaan]

They may have improved but still have a tendency to make school boy errors in big matches ; the previous match was precisely the example. Same thing happened at 21 t20 wc semi & last asia cup final. Their catching has definitely improved where they have come a long way from the dark days of 90's/00's, but the ground fielding? It's still pretty ordinary & substandard. Only Afgans are worse than them from this region. If their bowling & fielding can click together & somehow maintain a decent standard then it will help them to fill in for their shaky uncertain batting.

I disagree thier ground fielding is pretty good overall.

 

[hermit]

I can understand spinners toiling to take wickets on flat Pakistani wickets. However Shadab and Nawaz didn't look like creating even a half chance vs India in Pallekele !

If you can't take wickets in Sri Lanka, one of the best venues for spin in the world, where can you ?

That's one reason why I supported the switch to four seamers.

The other is there's a mistaken assumption (which I admittedly held too) that spin is king on Indian pitches. However spin averages 44.03 in ODIs in India since 2019 WC - pace averages 32.69. So all the more reason to back our strength.

This is such an important point that most people don't understand. I think with the 'new' powerplay rules of only four fielders outside the circle for overs 10-40, spinners have been essentially taken out of the game, unless it's a really quality one.

 

[Farabi]

Oh

This is such an important point that most people don't understand. I think with the 'new' powerplay rules of only four fielders outside the circle for overs 10-40, spinners have been essentially taken out of the game, unless it's a really quality one.

the last statement says it all “unless it’s a quality one”. Specialist spinners generally are doing OK.

The bowling average shared is deceptive because allrounder types spinners operate in the middle where batters are usually set and conserving wickets, whereas pace operates in PP and death, where batters give their wickets away.

What is the average of specialty spinners?

 

[gazza619]

Let us remember one point. ODI World Cups are won by teams who know how to score big runs. If you know how set a target of 300+ or chase a target of 300+, then you are in the game.

Abrar has no white ball experience and Usama will perform poorly under Babar’s mediocre captaincy. Shadab is a part time spinner. Imad & Nawaz will all give you pretty much the same figures in bowling.

I personally don’t think any of them are good enough and therefore my proposal is to play an all man pace attack.

 

[Rana]

Let us remember one point. ODI World Cups are won by teams who know how to score big runs. If you know how set a target of 300+ or chase a target of 300+, then you are in the game.

Abrar has no white ball experience and Usama will perform poorly under Babar’s mediocre captaincy. Shadab is a part time spinner. Imad & Nawaz will all give you pretty much the same figures in bowling.

I personally don’t think any of them are good enough and therefore my proposal is to play an all man pace attack.

You are underestimating Abrar

He bowls with a lot of heart. He can be our Theekshana

 

[Farabi]

Kuldeep what a specialist spinner is and can do.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Pakistan has 3 potent seamers but if Faheem and Shadab are your 4th and 5th bowlers - and even if you include Nawaz in the XI as 6th option. That's 20 overs of mediocre bowling, especially on flat pitches.

 

[Nado_]

genuine question, where the heck did Zafar Gohar vanish to. He only played one odi and wasn’t bad if I recall.

Then he played his test debut in New Zealand of all places and was not seen again

 

[Third Man]

Let us remember one point. ODI World Cups are won by teams who know how to score big runs. If you know how set a target of 300+ or chase a target of 300+, then you are in the game.

Abrar has no white ball experience and Usama will perform poorly under Babar’s mediocre captaincy. Shadab is a part time spinner. Imad & Nawaz will all give you pretty much the same figures in bowling.

I personally don’t think any of them are good enough and therefore my proposal is to play an all man pace attack.

Yup. Too late to look for a spin-savior now. Fast bowling is the strength, despite the drubbing they received in this match and the only real option we have to bolster the bowling is to add another genuine fast bowler. Waseem Jr can do a decent job, but Ihsanullah can give you the X-factor in middle overs provided he's guided well as he's quite green.

 

[amvbfm]

nobody is undercoked who is playing at the international level.. its all about giving them a chance to prove themself. i think abrar can do really well in ODIs.

Exactly. I just don’t understand this “too raw”, “undercooked”, “no experience“ philosophy. It is often such players who prove to be the X factor especially for Asian teams where senior players are selected for WCs by default regardless of their form. Inzi and Amir Sohail in 92, Razzaq in 99 (he was around for a while but hadn’t played much), Tanvir and Amir in the T20 world cups etc. Selecting untested played has almost always worked better than going with out of form stalwarts.

Pakistan’s main bowling weakness at the moment is the absence of a middle overs strike bowler. Even if the pacers make early incisions from overs 12 onwards we go totally on the defensive with bits and pieces bowlers looking to stem the flow of runs with totally defensive fields. That strategy will never work against top batting sides with solid middle and lower orders. Abrar might get tonked around but is far more likely to pick wickets than Nawaz or Faheem. For me it is definitely a risk worth taking.

 

[sam_ahm]

Wellalage today and Kuldeep yesterday showing how important good spinners are for any team in those middle overs.

Pakistan should very seriously reconsider their spin options for the WC. Shadab, Nawaz and Mir are surely not the ones... Shadab obviously will play but the other two need to be re-evaluated.

 

[mesmerizer85]

Abrar in in place of Shadab i guess whose underperforming in bowling department.

 

[Ahmed216]

Should be abrar and Imad for the WC. Abrar is new but he's played a fair bit of test cricket. Pak has to take a chance

 

[Ahmed216]

I would even consider Nauman chacha. He's got good control and loads of first class bowling behind him

 

[hassan918]

I think Pakistan should consider brining in Imad Wasim. He has been doing a pretty decent job with both ball and bat in the ongoing CPL.

 

[mominsaigol]

Abrar in in place of Shadab i guess whose underperforming in bowling department.

Shadab is underperforming because he's now facing 1st string sides.

He's a million dollars against 2nd string sides.

 

[mesmerizer85]

Agreed

 

[asfandyar]

We apparently have two chinamen in domestics: Faisal Akram and Sufiyan Muqeem.

 

[hassan918]

We apparently have two chinamen in domestics: Faisal Akram and Sufiyan Muqeem.

They both are too young and inexperienced to play international cricket at the moment but they both definitely have lots of talent and we may see them play in the Pakistan national team in a few years time.

 

[shamaan]

Abrar and Imad should be considered for the world Cup squad.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Abrar and Imad should be considered for the world Cup squad.

I dont think babar would be comfortable with the inclusion of Immad Wasim into the team.