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Shan Masood currently has the highest List A average in history

182*
71
90
128*
83
35
16
59
100*
86
64*
0
15
105*
58*
145*

1237 runs this season at an average of 137.44 and strike-rate of 92.52. :bow:
 
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Has anyone seen him bat this season?

What has changed? How is the bowling quality?
 
How did he do in the Pentangular cup(The provincial level tournament). That is the the most competitive tournament we have for LA cricket with all the matches televised. If we want to judge a player we need to do it at the highest platform available. For now that is the PSL and the Pentanular cup.

But I don't mean to undermine his achievements. He has performed exceptionally and if he gets selected then he would have earned his place on merit.
 
Fahdi said:
How did he do in the Pentangular cup(The provincial level tournament). That is the the most competitive tournament we have for LA cricket with all the matches televised. If we want to judge a player we need to do it at the highest platform available. For now that is the PSL and the Pentanular cup.

But I don't mean to undermine his achievements. He has performed exceptionally and if he gets selected then he would have earned his place on merit.
Click to expand...

He didn't play in the Pentangular Cup (or Pakistan Cup) last year.

If he's fit and available, he'll surely be selected this time around. The tournament is usually after PSL.
 
7 out of 14 are from Pakistan.

And out of those 7, 6 are present cricketers. Then why does Pakistan still struggle in batting department?

You can have this 6 as ur batting line up based on this.

Shan
Khurram
Sami
Babar
Fakhar
Ifthikhar
 
Didn't he average in the 30s before this season? :danish
 
Kohli said:
7 out of 14 are from Pakistan.

And out of those 7, 6 are present cricketers. Then why does Pakistan still struggle in batting department?

You can have this 6 as ur batting line up based on this.

Shan
Khurram
Sami
Babar
Fakhar
Ifthikhar
Click to expand...

But where is Pakistan in Test ranking?
 
Abdullah719 said:
182*
71
90
128*
83
35
16
59
100*
86
64*
0
15
105*
58*
145*

1237 runs this season at an average of 137.44 and strike-rate of 92.52. :bow:
Click to expand...

Unusual that with such a great average he hasn't yet played a game for the Pakistani national ODI side at age 28.
 
Kohli said:
7 out of 14 are from Pakistan.

And out of those 7, 6 are present cricketers. Then why does Pakistan still struggle in batting department?

You can have this 6 as ur batting line up based on this.

Shan
Khurram
Sami
Babar
Fakhar
Ifthikhar
Click to expand...

We have the flattest pitches in the world when there's no grass. They are perfect for batting, literally perfect.
 
He is unbelievable form and if he was selected for ODIs we couldn't complain.
 
How can pak pitches turn into something else as batsman scores or bowler takes wicket. For ever we heard about bowler using pitches to their advantage, but now when some batsman scored runs, people again making excuses. Sometimes i think that people like only performance from their favourite. And make excuses so other person do not get enough credit. Only option is to take performance according to comparison with their peers.
 
That's insane, but as we know, our domestic system is crazy and you never know whether the performances mean anything or not and whether they'd actually translate into international cricket.
 
Now he should be given chance in ODIS..not selected for test cricket on ODI performance...Another guy is sami aslam in ODIS...i believe he is very good prospect for ODI cricket..
Let us try
Sami
Shaan masood
Babar
Saud shakeel
Iftikhar
 
Wow, that is insane form.

Can't overlook this, have to put bias aside and should have him in the ODI squad. He deserves his call-up after such scores.
 
Kohli said:
7 out of 14 are from Pakistan.

And out of those 7, 6 are present cricketers. Then why does Pakistan still struggle in batting department?

You can have this 6 as ur batting line up based on this.

Shan
Khurram
Sami
Babar
Fakhar
Ifthikhar
Click to expand...

Because our CS select such players for test and FC players for odis..
 
Can’t believe that Shan is up there.His record is better than other legends like Ifti Chacha and Manzoor.
 
GLORY OF '92 said:
What is there a big difference between first class and list A pitches?

Thought our pitches were very green these days?
Click to expand...

List A have no grass as the matches only last a day.

FC pitches are poorly prepared and need the grass to keep the pitch together for four days.

The groundsmen are not to be blamed though. They are paid poorly.
 
Unfortunately he will recalled now.

His strike rate is still low at times.

Another accumulator.

Our top 4 is now:
Fakhar
Shan
Babar
Haris/Hafeez
:facepalm:
 
Also I doubt he will survive on the quality of international bowlers.
 
as disappointing as he has been in Tests - through list A performance he has earned a ODIs selection - especially given that we don't have 2 settled customers
 
Abdullah719 said:
Most active ODI players play much more ODI cricket than domestic List A matches.
Click to expand...

Thats what I thought, when was the last time Kohli played in a List A series? However given the international schedule, 239 matches in 12 years is impressive and most of it was probably played in the former part of his career.
 
DeadBall said:
Thats what I thought, when was the last time Kohli played in a List A series? However given the international schedule, 239 matches in 12 years is impressive and most of it was probably played in the former part of his career.
Click to expand...

Good question. Just checked, the last time he played in a List A (non-ODI) game was back in 2013.
 
DeadBall said:
Thats what I thought, when was the last time Kohli played in a List A series? However given the international schedule, 239 matches in 12 years is impressive and most of it was probably played in the former part of his career.
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If Im not wrong, ODI games are still recorded as List A, but List A games wont get ODI status. That is why under Kohli it shows he had played over 200 games which also includes International games. Its similar to how Test matches are still counted as First Class games.
 
DeadBall said:
Thats what I thought, when was the last time Kohli played in a List A series? However given the international schedule, 239 matches in 12 years is impressive and most of it was probably played in the former part of his career.
Click to expand...

all ODI games are recorded as List A. One look at Rohit Sharma profile in CI proves it. His List A top score is same as his ODI top score
 
CanadianG00se said:
If Im not wrong, ODI games are still recorded as List A, but List A games wont get ODI status. That is why under Kohli it shows he had played over 200 games which also includes International games. Its similar to how Test matches are still counted as First Class games.
Click to expand...

Yet another misconception then!. Someone needs to tag this in the misconception thread.
 
Gubol123 said:
all ODI games are recorded as List A. One look at Rohit Sharma profile in CI proves it. His List A top score is same as his ODI top score
Click to expand...

Correct. I thought that was clear but I think I misread that post....

Usually when people talk about List A games, they mean domestic 50-over matches

In statistical records, ODIs are part of List A stats just as Tests are part of FC stats.
 
Kohli said:
7 out of 14 are from Pakistan.

And out of those 7, 6 are present cricketers. Then why does Pakistan still struggle in batting department?

You can have this 6 as ur batting line up based on this.

Shan
Khurram
Sami
Babar
Fakhar
Ifthikhar
Click to expand...

Fakhar and Babar have had great starts to their international careers and the latter is probably the best young batsman in world cricket, in quite some times.

As for Shan, I havent seen him play much, but what I've seen of him in tests, I'm wondering, how has that cautious, confused batsman scored this many runs with that strike rate?

Whats changed?
 
Let him play a few ODIs that average will drop to mid 20s. Many here dont know but Kohli and ABD stats are int ODIs included!
 
And this is exactly why stats and Pakistani domestic cricket should not be the only metric in selecting a player, Shan Masood clearly isn't someone who is going to suceed at international level.

This is exactly why not selecting Fawad Alam or Sadaf Hussain is totally justified.
 
Going by domestics our ODI batting lineup should be something like:

Shan
Khurram
Fakhar
Babar
Iftikhar
 
DeadBall said:
Thats what I thought, when was the last time Kohli played in a List A series? However given the international schedule, 239 matches in 12 years is impressive and most of it was probably played in the former part of his career.
Click to expand...

I think List A includes ODIs. There is no way Kohli scored 39 domestic hundreds
 
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I still am not convinced about him at International level , but those stats deserve at least 3 - 4 OD games.
 
Justcrazy said:
I still am not convinced about him at International level , but those stats deserve at least 3 - 4 OD games.
Click to expand...

I don’t think we should mix formats. I would say he deserves a go if he carries on with the same form in the ongoing Pakistan Cup. We can’t label him a TTF based on tests because opening the batting in Test cricket is probsbly the hardest job for a batsman.
 
hussain.r97 said:
And this is exactly why stats and Pakistani domestic cricket should not be the only metric in selecting a player, Shan Masood clearly isn't someone who is going to suceed at international level.

This is exactly why not selecting Fawad Alam or Sadaf Hussain is totally justified.
Click to expand...

Sadaf or Fawad is a completely different argument let’s not confuse matters or derail the thread

Shan has been selected for tests. But these stats show his worth for odi. I think the op highlights that Shan the test flunker should not be judged solely on his international performances but also considered for odi on merit. This is a good point.
 
rhony said:
I think List A includes ODIs. There is no way Kohli scored 39 domestic hundreds
Click to expand...

Yeah. If ODI stats weren't included, I think Shehzad would also be somewhere on this list. In fact, he might be at the top. He averages almost 60 in domestic 50-over games.

Abid Z said:
Sadaf or Fawad is a completely different argument let’s not confuse matters or derail the thread

Shan has been selected for tests. But these stats show his worth for odi. I think the op highlights that Shan the test flunker should not be judged solely on his international performances but also considered for odi on merit. This is a good point.
Click to expand...

I'll be completely honest, that was not the point of this thread. :)
 
Abdullah719 said:
Yeah. If ODI stats weren't included, I think Shehzad would also be somewhere on this list. In fact, he might be at the top. He averages almost 60 in domestic 50-over games.



I'll be completely honest, that was not the point of this thread. :)
Click to expand...

Ok...what was the point?
 
Abid Z said:
Ok...what was the point?
Click to expand...

Probably something to do with the fact that it's ironic that such a batsman who has become a meme for failures in international cricket holds a fairly big record.
 
hussain.r97 said:
And this is exactly why stats and Pakistani domestic cricket should not be the only metric in selecting a player, Shan Masood clearly isn't someone who is going to suceed at international level.

This is exactly why not selecting Fawad Alam or Sadaf Hussain is totally justified.
Click to expand...

If you want to justify something you should come up with an actual justification. What is it here; that players who do well in domestics don't do well in internationals? Do we have a data set by which to evaluate this?

Shan clearly isn't someone who is going to succeed at international level on what basis?

In Tests, we know this only because he was trialled, and did poorly overall.

In ODIs he has not yet had a shot, and arguably deserves one on current form.

The parallel to Fawad and Sadaf is completely opaque to me.

Fawad was trialled in Tests, scored 160+ on debut and averaged 40 by the time he was dropped. He would have been lucky to enjoy one fifth of the favor that selectors are still lavishing on Rahat Ali and Asad Shafiq.

Sadaf has never been allowed to play in internationals, though he was selected for the national team. Since he has not yet had a chance to play it is difficult to understand how his exclusion is justified.

Mohammed Abbas, who bowls alongside him in same domestic FC team, bowls about the same pace, and has performed rather similarly to Sadaf over many years in domestics is averaging 21 in internationals so far. And Sadaf is taller than Abbas.
 
Difference between him and someone like Fawad alam is he has been selected numerous times in test matches and failed to live upto the hype since 2013. Despite all the facilities he has at his disposal and his annual visits to play cricket leagues in England
Also having a father that is in the PCB board helps alot
 
Two major issues for PAK cricket is that, they don't play enough A side games; therefore it's impossible to test bench strength. At present, IPL is going on and PAK team is in UK - therefore it was a perfect opportunity to play 10-12 games A tour with players like Shan, Abid, Sadaf, Zia, Saud, Aga, Talat, Bismillah, Manzoor, Asif..... 2nd issue is the lack of boldness from management & selectors - PAK hardly plays back-up players even in dead rubbers.

I can't blame selectors much here because there are too tittle game to be honest. PCB is happy to play lots of T20, where squad is solid and they keep playing possible best XI, while they are reducing number of ODI (Not to mention Test - PAK'll play less Test than BD & SRL in next 10 years!!!!) at every opportunity, therefore it's not easy to rotate squad either.

I think, PAK Cup isn't serving the purpose - 5 teams are too many, if this has to replace the blank A tours. As a regular tournament, it's fine (though I have lots of reservation on how they are forming the squad - how many Sindhi are in that Sindh team, someone probably can count by fingers!!!), but to develop the immediate back-up of PAK team, I think they need one more tournament with 24, max 36 players. That's PAK White & Green or PAK A, B & C - where like to like 36 players to be picked in 3 teams.

Besides, it's SICKENING to notice that this selfish guy Hafeez is allowed to bat at 3, when it's clearly communicated that his only possible role in PAK team is an all-rounder, who bats at 5/6 - he basically cost Saud another year; when I saw the scorecard that Saud has bowled 7/8 overs and took a wicket, first thing came to mind is that he'll be dropped down the order, so that he doesn't get the chance to score a 50+ as well; and it eventually got him dropped in very next game.
 
Most of the international players hardly play List A or FC games other than the practice games when they are on tours. So Virat has 242 List A games out of which 208 are LOIs. So the average he has is phenomenal considering 85% of his games are at the highest level. 228 of 263 List A games for ABD are at International level, so again another stat which needs to be considered.
 
MMHS said:
Two major issues for PAK cricket is that, they don't play enough A side games; therefore it's impossible to test bench strength. At present, IPL is going on and PAK team is in UK - therefore it was a perfect opportunity to play 10-12 games A tour with players like Shan, Abid, Sadaf, Zia, Saud, Aga, Talat, Bismillah, Manzoor, Asif..... 2nd issue is the lack of boldness from management & selectors - PAK hardly plays back-up players even in dead rubbers.

I can't blame selectors much here because there are too tittle game to be honest. PCB is happy to play lots of T20, where squad is solid and they keep playing possible best XI, while they are reducing number of ODI (Not to mention Test - PAK'll play less Test than BD & SRL in next 10 years!!!!) at every opportunity, therefore it's not easy to rotate squad either.

I think, PAK Cup isn't serving the purpose - 5 teams are too many, if this has to replace the blank A tours. As a regular tournament, it's fine (though I have lots of reservation on how they are forming the squad - how many Sindhi are in that Sindh team, someone probably can count by fingers!!!), but to develop the immediate back-up of PAK team, I think they need one more tournament with 24, max 36 players. That's PAK White & Green or PAK A, B & C - where like to like 36 players to be picked in 3 teams.

Besides, it's SICKENING to notice that this selfish guy Hafeez is allowed to bat at 3, when it's clearly communicated that his only possible role in PAK team is an all-rounder, who bats at 5/6 - he basically cost Saud another year; when I saw the scorecard that Saud has bowled 7/8 overs and took a wicket, first thing came to mind is that he'll be dropped down the order, so that he doesn't get the chance to score a 50+ as well; and it eventually got him dropped in very next game.
Click to expand...

Pak has very little choice. All A tours are played in reciprocity cycle. If England is hosting Pak A tour, then Pak will have to host England A/Lions tour. where will PCB host them? UAE would be too expensive? Pak, no one will come.. may be they can trial in Malaysia
 
MMHS said:
Two major issues for PAK cricket is that, they don't play enough A side games; therefore it's impossible to test bench strength. At present, IPL is going on and PAK team is in UK - therefore it was a perfect opportunity to play 10-12 games A tour with players like Shan, Abid, Sadaf, Zia, Saud, Aga, Talat, Bismillah, Manzoor, Asif..... 2nd issue is the lack of boldness from management & selectors - PAK hardly plays back-up players even in dead rubbers.

I can't blame selectors much here because there are too tittle game to be honest. PCB is happy to play lots of T20, where squad is solid and they keep playing possible best XI, while they are reducing number of ODI (Not to mention Test - PAK'll play less Test than BD & SRL in next 10 years!!!!) at every opportunity, therefore it's not easy to rotate squad either.

I think, PAK Cup isn't serving the purpose - 5 teams are too many, if this has to replace the blank A tours. As a regular tournament, it's fine (though I have lots of reservation on how they are forming the squad - how many Sindhi are in that Sindh team, someone probably can count by fingers!!!), but to develop the immediate back-up of PAK team, I think they need one more tournament with 24, max 36 players. That's PAK White & Green or PAK A, B & C - where like to like 36 players to be picked in 3 teams.

Besides, it's SICKENING to notice that this selfish guy Hafeez is allowed to bat at 3, when it's clearly communicated that his only possible role in PAK team is an all-rounder, who bats at 5/6 - he basically cost Saud another year; when I saw the scorecard that Saud has bowled 7/8 overs and took a wicket, first thing came to mind is that he'll be dropped down the order, so that he doesn't get the chance to score a 50+ as well; and it eventually got him dropped in very next game.
Click to expand...

PCB always chased money. whatever format makes money they will play it. I don't even remember when was the last time they played a five test series.. I can't even remember when they hosted even a four test series. Do you remember? They play whatever makes PCB money..
 
Gubol123 said:
PCB always chased money. whatever format makes money they will play it. I don't even remember when was the last time they played a five test series.. I can't even remember when they hosted even a four test series. Do you remember? They play whatever makes PCB money..
Click to expand...

I don't think playing T20 has any additional financial benefit - Test match I understand, 5 days cost is significantly higher, but return is less (though PAK played least Test in every era - 1974 WI tour of PAK was 2 Tests, when WIN-IND used to play 6 Test series). Between T20 & ODI, actually ODI should be more financially rewarding - PCB doesn't get much from gate in UAE (in any case, gate money isn't a big factor these days), while for TV money, it's 40 overs vs 100 overs - even at half rate, ODI should earn more.

I think, (please don't ask to explain) the reason is completely different and as long as PAK is based in UAE, team will be playing lots of T20, forced or willingly, I can't tell, but T20 belongs to that crooked place for a reason. Particularly, this year (WC preparation year), reducing already agreed upon 5 ODI Series in to 3 games for the sake of 2 more T20 - I don't think it's money for sure.

Last 4 Test series hosted by PAK was 1989, last 5 Test series played by PAK was 1992. Apart from that, PCB has the ultimate dignity of pioneering 2 Test series in UK, when those series was reserved for ZIM & SRL. AUS, ENG, SAF has a minimum status & self-respect, so they won't play 2 Test series at home with PAK, but PCB already has hosted 2 Tests series with AUS, SAF, SRL, NZ ...... hope it doesn't come down to 1 Four day Test in near future, that'll be shameful even for PCB.
 
MMHS said:
I don't think playing T20 has any additional financial benefit - Test match I understand, 5 days cost is significantly higher, but return is less (though PAK played least Test in every era - 1974 WI tour of PAK was 2 Tests, when WIN-IND used to play 6 Test series). Between T20 & ODI, actually ODI should be more financially rewarding - PCB doesn't get much from gate in UAE (in any case, gate money isn't a big factor these days), while for TV money, it's 40 overs vs 100 overs - even at half rate, ODI should earn more.

I think, (please don't ask to explain) the reason is completely different and as long as PAK is based in UAE, team will be playing lots of T20, forced or willingly, I can't tell, but T20 belongs to that crooked place for a reason. Particularly, this year (WC preparation year), reducing already agreed upon 5 ODI Series in to 3 games for the sake of 2 more T20 - I don't think it's money for sure.

Last 4 Test series hosted by PAK was 1989, last 5 Test series played by PAK was 1992. Apart from that, PCB has the ultimate dignity of pioneering 2 Test series in UK, when those series was reserved for ZIM & SRL. AUS, ENG, SAF has a minimum status & self-respect, so they won't play 2 Test series at home with PAK, but PCB already has hosted 2 Tests series with AUS, SAF, SRL, NZ ...... hope it doesn't come down to 1 Four day Test in near future, that'll be shameful even for PCB.
Click to expand...

Yeah it was long time since Pak hosted 4/5 test series with anyone. They always play whatever format makes them more money

regarding the highlighted one, i think 40 overs of T20 might as-well be earning more than 100 overs.. see the recent push from ICC to convert the 100 over tournament into 40 over one. why will they do that if the T20 is not making more money than ODI. Obviously ICC doesn't do anything unless money is involved..
 
Gubol123 said:
Yeah it was long time since Pak hosted 4/5 test series with anyone. They always play whatever format makes them more money

regarding the highlighted one, i think 40 overs of T20 might as-well be earning more than 100 overs.. see the recent push from ICC to convert the 100 over tournament into 40 over one. why will they do that if the T20 is not making more money than ODI. Obviously ICC doesn't do anything unless money is involved..
Click to expand...

When gate money comes into equation, it's indeed, because within same time frame you can play 2 games. A 20K capacity crowd in UK is worth almost $1mn, a 50K capacity crowd in IND is at least half a million.
 
41 (44) in second innings with 6 fours prove one thing :

Shan only deserves to be picked as 3rd opener for Pakistan Odi team and for only List A team of Pakistan A. That’s it.


In future if he scores heavily in PSL for Multan sultans than yes He could be given chance in Pak T20 side too but I don’t see any reason at present for him to be anywhere near Pakistan A four day squad or Pakistan Test squad.



Merit should prevail. Shan playing ahead of Saud while he wasn’t even in Pakistan A squad is injustice of highest order and Imran Khan Niazi, Ehsan Mani, Zakir Khan (Ik Cousin), Asad Shafique and Pakistan A Coach are responsible for this mess. Saud was in red hot form and was comfortably best Pakistan A squad batting potential yet robbed of an opportunity he deserved.


Shan’s UBL, bureaucratic and Pcb connections got him this opportunity. Clearly anyone can see his F.C, List A and Test numbers to see where he stands.
 
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I obviously haven't seen him play this year, nor have I seen any Pakistani LA cricket for years and yeas but from what I saw of shan in the tests he has played, he looked lost.

Maybe odi cricket is his forte? Issue is pak has their top 5 pretty well cemented, not sure where shan fits into that.
 
Along with fakhar we use sami aslam and shan for world cup,
Saud at 4,5

Khurram and iftikhar are poor.
 
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