Sharif's loss may strengthen army, has India worried : The Times of India

[Mian]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...my-has-india-worried/articleshow/59570425.cms

ISLAMABAD/NEW DELHI: A serious setback to Pakistani PM Nawaz Sharif following the disclosure that his daughter and putative heir apparent, Maryam Sharif, had concealed ownership of the family's offshore assets and companies threatens to create new security complications for India.

A Joint Investigation Team (JIT) probing the Panama Papers, in its report to the supreme court, accused Maryam of forgery. The JIT has charged the ruling family with perjury, having disproportionate income and living beyond their means. It said Sharif failed to satisfactorily answer most of the questions put to him during his appearance before investigators on June 15.

"He was generally evasive and seemed preoccupied during the interview. Major part of his statement was based on hearsay," the report said, adding that Sharif remained non-committal, speculative and at times non-cooperative while recording his statement. The report further said Sharif tried to "parry most of the questions" by giving indefinite answers or by stating that "he does not remember, ostensibly to conceal facts".

If the SC decides to implement the report, perhaps by next week, Sharif might either be removed or, at the very least, be rendered completely ineffectual. This could have implications for India in the coming weeks and months, particularly in the security sphere.

India and Pakistan barely have any official interactions any more. The walk-by greeting between PM Narendra Modi and Sharif in Astana epitomised the state of ties, which does not go beyond pleasantries.

But while the loss of Sharif is unlikely to strike a blow at bilateral ties, a change of regime at this time might mean that there will be new players in Islamabad, too new to matter, leaving the job of governance and foreign policy to the army brass in Rawalpindi.

That would be the most obvious coup-like situation, bringing the army back on the frontline of governance, and its unclear whether it would want that. In addition, Sharif 's patrons in Saudi Arabia might not look too kindly on that, and it would certainly play badly in the US. Third, for all his problems, Sharif is still popular in Pakistan. An army-led removal might just help to cement that popularity .

From Ashfaq Kayani to Qamar Bajwa, the army has been loath to removing the civilian government of the day, even though it may be running the country from behind the scenes.

Sharif and his party, PML(N), remain defiant in the face of the opposition's call for his ouster, with the ruling party vowing to challenge the report.

However, the dominant opinion holds that JIT's findings have severely weakened Sharif's position by cutting his avenues of deniability, something which can be a source of worry for India. The outcome of the Sharif investigation and the resultant instability holds out the old red flags -that when Pakistan goes through a crisis, turning the spotlight on India and Kashmir might be a tempting answer.

Pakistan-based terror groups have shown that they can penetrate into J&K fairly easily, the Amarnath attack being the latest. It would be tempting to ratchet up violence in the Kashmir Valley, and use it to fend off international pressure to restore a civilian government.

Government circles in New Delhi seem to agree as they brace for what might turn out to be possible post-Sharif scenarios. The general elections are only months away, and if the army wants to preserve the democratic facade, they could allow Sharif to stay on until then. Second, Sharif's younger brother Shahbaz could take over his mantle.

Although Shahbaz would be an easier transition, he might remain severely constrained, and anyway, elections are around the corner, so it is unlikely he would want to pick up the Sharif flak, and might prefer to be a fresh face in the elections.

 

[Mian]

He is an indian asset

 

[Strike!]

Oh damn, you beat me.

 

[czar]

Then Army will further loot Pakistan by magnifying the " Bogeyman India " threat and justifying greater than the already large chunk of GDP.

 

[proud_pakistani]

Lol as if India and Pakistan have friendly relations right now because of Nawaz Sharif. Indian propaganda to rile up Indians further in their hate towards Pakistan.

 

[Hornbill]

The people who really likes Nawaz in India are kashmiri separatists, he provides safe heavens for anti Indian forces in his province, whenever this guy came to power bilateral relations between both countries deteriorated.

 

[Saeed]

India's obsession with Pakistan is embarrassing, hope these corrupt politicians get locked up for life.

 

[Enigma_]

There's obsession then there's whatever relationship India seems to have with Pakistan. As a nation they are sick.

 

[Napa]

Then Army will further loot Pakistan by magnifying the " Bogeyman India " threat and justifying greater than the already large chunk of GDP.

That threat has worked for the Pakistani Army for 70 years. The victims of the Army's interference in the economy are the civilians. Combine that with the jihadi groups to fight India that the Army has supported at various points, who have now created climate of terror. That is the main reason why modern industries have not developed in Pakistan. If I were to ask the supporters of the Pakistani Army, what is the most modern industry Pakistan has, what would be the answer?

 

[JaDed]

As an Indian rather have the army than some government ruling Pak,easier to know who is in charge and decisions by the Army are unanimous unlike the civil governments.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

As an Indian rather have the army than some government ruling Pak,easier to know who is in charge and decisions by the Army are unanimous unlike the civil governments.

Yet you want democracy for India? Practice what you preach, mate!

 

[ExpressPacer]

Democracy is a failed system of governance but military rule is no suitable as of now. Separatist movements may gain in power.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Democracy is a failed system of governance but military rule is no suitable as of now. Separatist movements may gain in power.

I agree somewhat in Pakistan's case because of the lack of informed voters and bizarre voting trends. Pakistan could do with a benevolent dictatorship that keeps the army in check, grows the economy and improves education and literacy and then have democratic elections. That isn't going to happen, so they have to wait for more Imran Khans in each of the parties

 

[JaDed]

Yet you want democracy for India? Practice what you preach, mate!

Yes,your reply to that post got hidden,so I don't know what u replied,and I never said I was for democracy in India?

Quote me if i have,I agree with China style government,rather have less poverty than so called "freedom" to vote your caste.

 

[ExpressPacer]

I agree somewhat in Pakistan's case because of the lack of informed voters and bizarre voting trends. Pakistan could do with a benevolent dictatorship that keeps the army in check, grows the economy and improves education and literacy and then have democratic elections. That isn't going to happen, so they have to wait for more Imran Khans in each of the parties

Exactly. Couldn't have worded it better myself. A benevolent dictatorship sounds like an attractive idea but that also gives way to the formation of an absolute monarch, which could end up being worse than having a corrupt democracy.

A form of liberal democracy where only a selected group of intellectuals have the power to vote would be perfect. Of course, this is all hypothetical and is probably never going to happen but one can dream.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Exactly. Couldn't have worded it better myself. A benevolent dictatorship sounds like an attractive idea but that also gives way to the formation of an absolute monarch, which could end up being worse than having a corrupt democracy.

A form of liberal democracy where only a selected group of intellectuals have the power to vote would be perfect. Of course, this is all hypothetical and is probably never going to happen but one can dream.

For now let's try to create more Imran Khans, Corbyns and Bernies around the world. Peace and stability should be a global concern.

 

[Pakpak]

This is India's premier paper. No wonder they're so deluded about our politics, it is so far from reality.

 

[Syed1]

How about Indians mind their own business and not tell us who should be at the head of our government.

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

India can take Nawaz Sharif then we have one less corrupt person and with him you can get Zardari as a gift.

 

[Saeed]

How about Indians mind their own business and not tell us who should be at the head of our government.

Not possible, they are the biggest democracy so they are allowed to talk about Pakistan. Also India is one the fastest growing economy and wait for some random posts about GDP.

 

[cricketjoshila]

How about Indians mind their own business and not tell us who should be at the head of our government.

Absolutely.No doubt.Pakistanis must decide who should lead them.No one should interfere.I am a firm believer that people should get a leader they want and not a leader some foreign powers want.

Is the article telling Pakistanis who to select?I thought its just talking of the different scenarios.

 

[Syed1]

Absolutely.No doubt.Pakistanis must decide who should lead them.No one should interfere.I am a firm believer that people should get a leader they want and not a leader some foreign powers want.

Is the article telling Pakistanis who to select?I thought its just talking of the different scenarios.

My post was more with regards to the Indian posters on the thread.

 

[Kianig89]

No surprise Sharifs in this tenure have acted like middlemen of India

 

[troodon]

How about Indians mind their own business and not tell us who should be at the head of our government.

India talks about all its neighbors. Since Kashmir is still a major issue and Pak Government has a major role to play in it, India will obviously watch it closely.

If Army indeed comes to power, India will be even more concerned.

Most Pak fans may be getting their wish fulfilled. Looks like Sharif will be out.

 

[hussain123]

No country will be happier than than india to see pakistan sliding once again to dictatorship.just the times when foreign policy of pakistan,may for the first time in decades was showing consistency lets hand over it to jernails who will ruin it once again.the image of pakistan which has significantly improved over the years;with a military dictator will be that of a basket case to put it bluntly.boggles you at a time when cpec is nearing completion with enemies obviously hatching plans to destalblise it,look what internal bickering they are getting themselves into.

 

[WebGuru]

No country will be happier than than india to see pakistan sliding once again to dictatorship.just the times when foreign policy of pakistan,may for the first time in decades was showing consistency lets hand over it to jernails who will ruin it once again.the image of pakistan which has significantly improved over the years;with a military dictator will be that of a basket case to put it bluntly.boggles you at a time when cpec is nearing completion with enemies obviously hatching plans to destalblise it,look what internal bickering they are getting themselves into.

CPEC and Gwadar is in Army hands from more thn a decade now and govt change means nothing they are personally taking care of it because they know how important it is for Pakistan survival check core commander conf statement that happened yesterday there was a clear shut up call to stop using CPEC as a card to save your corruption.

We'll make CPEC a success, come what may: COAS
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1456715/well-make-cpec-success-come-may-coas/

There is no way Pakistan is going under milt dictator again and army isn't interested at all otherwise Raheel Sharif had at least 3 chances to take over but he refused every time and even bajwa is doing same. Army isn't in the mood to get their hands dirty again. And foreign affairs of Pak are still in Army's hand although there is a shift in their views and their own policy. Just look at the change in our policy towards Gulf countries specially Saudis we denied sending Army there during Yemen conflict when the Govt and Sharif family was interested but Army for the first time refused.

 

[hussain123]

CPEC and Gwadar is in Army hands from more thn a decade now and govt change means nothing they are personally taking care of it because they know how important it is for Pakistan survival check core commander conf statement that happened yesterday there was a clear shut up call to stop using CPEC as a card to save your corruption.

We'll make CPEC a success, come what may: COAS
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1456715/well-make-cpec-success-come-may-coas/

There is no way Pakistan is going under milt dictator again and army isn't interested at all otherwise Raheel Sharif had at least 3 chances to take over but he refused every time and even bajwa is doing same. Army isn't in the mood to get their hands dirty again. And foreign affairs of Pak are still in Army's hand although there is a shift in their views and their own policy. Just look at the change in our policy towards Gulf countries specially Saudis we denied sending Army there during Yemen conflict when the Govt and Sharif family was interested but Army for the first time refused.

Securing strategic projects is the job of the army and that is exactly what their role should be,not to unnecessarily indulge themselves in political akhara.as far foreign policy there is a clear shift but i would attribute it to giving civilian govt more autonomy to shape foreign policy.though my issue is with military takeovers.hope it doesn't come about.

 

[Mian]

Securing strategic projects is the job of the army and that is exactly what their role should be,not to unnecessarily indulge themselves in political akhara.as far foreign policy there is a clear shift but i would attribute it to giving civilian govt more autonomy to shape foreign policy.though my issue is with military takeovers.hope it doesn't come about.

I hope you know its last year of PMLN govt and they didn't find a single foreign minister in their whole party to appoint so they kept dumb foreign advisors like Sartaj Aziz and Fatmi who kept playing circus in last 4 years and failed.

 

[Lonewarrior]

No country will be happier than than india to see pakistan sliding once again to dictatorship.just the times when foreign policy of pakistan,may for the first time in decades was showing consistency lets hand over it to jernails who will ruin it once again.the image of pakistan which has significantly improved over the years;with a military dictator will be that of a basket case to put it bluntly.boggles you at a time when cpec is nearing completion with enemies obviously hatching plans to destalblise it,look what internal bickering they are getting themselves into.

any idea in which govt the Gawadar port project was initiated ?

 

[Mian]

any idea in which govt the Gawadar port project was initiated ?

I think work at port started and completed in Musharraf govt and it was handed over to Singapore company? China and Iran jumped in during PPP govt and Iran was kicked out from project in PMLN govt.

 

[the Great Khan]

ISLAMABAD/NEW DELHI: A serious setback to Pakistani PM Nawaz Sharif following the disclosure that his daughter and putative heir apparent, Maryam Sharif, had concealed ownership of the family's offshore assets and companies threatens to create new security complications for India.

So accountability within our political setup is a security concern for India? So India would love to see corrupt politicians in charge in pakistan for their benefit?

A Joint Investigation Team (JIT) probing the Panama Papers, in its report to the supreme court, accused Maryam of forgery. The JIT has charged the ruling family with perjury, having disproportionate income and living beyond their means. It said Sharif failed to satisfactorily answer most of the questions put to him during his appearance before investigators on June 15.

"He was generally evasive and seemed preoccupied during the interview. Major part of his statement was based on hearsay," the report said, adding that Sharif remained non-committal, speculative and at times non-cooperative while recording his statement. The report further said Sharif tried to "parry most of the questions" by giving indefinite answers or by stating that "he does not remember, ostensibly to conceal facts".

If the SC decides to implement the report, perhaps by next week, Sharif might either be removed or, at the very least, be rendered completely ineffectual. This could have implications for India in the coming weeks and months, particularly in the security sphere.


India and Pakistan barely have any official interactions any more. The walk-by greeting between PM Narendra Modi and Sharif in Astana epitomised the state of ties, which does not go beyond pleasantries.

so the journalist contradicts himself/herself in the same paragraph. If ties were great then I would understand the implications but ties between two democratic govts are pathetic at the moment so what difference does it make if NS stays or not? pathetic analysis

But while the loss of Sharif is unlikely to strike a blow at bilateral ties, a change of regime at this time might mean that there will be new players in Islamabad, too new to matter, leaving the job of governance and foreign policy to the army brass in Rawalpindi.

A complete lack of understanding shown by the journo of Pakistani politics. There wont be "regime"change as per his/her prejudicial implication. It is a democratic process and the PMLN are perfectly within their rights as the largest party to nominate a new PM. More pathetic analysis but exposes the racist bias in the article. i.e. these pakistanis arent as democratic as us etc etc

That would be the most obvious coup-like situation, bringing the army back on the frontline of governance, and its unclear whether it would want that. In addition, Sharif 's patrons in Saudi Arabia might not look too kindly on that, and it would certainly play badly in the US. Third, for all his problems, Sharif is still popular in Pakistan. An army-led removal might just help to cement that popularity .

Obvious coup like situation? from the resignation of a PM that can be replaced by another? Yusuf raza gilani was also disqualified I dont remember a coup then? also the army will not take the govt over as it is no longer interested in governance from the obvious point of view. Any half baked analysis of Pakistan in the last ten years would know this. This is getting worse.

From Ashfaq Kayani to Qamar Bajwa, the army has been loath to removing the civilian government of the day, even though it may be running the country from behind the scenes.

Contradiction again. Please stop writing

Sharif and his party, PML(N), remain defiant in the face of the opposition's call for his ouster, with the ruling party vowing to challenge the report.

However, the dominant opinion holds that JIT's findings have severely weakened Sharif's position by cutting his avenues of deniability, something which can be a source of worry for India. The outcome of the Sharif investigation and the resultant instability holds out the old red flags -that when Pakistan goes through a crisis, turning the spotlight on India and Kashmir might be a tempting answer.

Hunh? has this incompetent not been following the news latley? Kashmir is on fire despite NS being in power! what a stupid analysis

Pakistan-based terror groups have shown that they can penetrate into J&K fairly easily, the Amarnath attack being the latest. It would be tempting to ratchet up violence in the Kashmir Valley, and use it to fend off international pressure to restore a civilian government.

More unproven allegations based on what? nothing. India's default method of deflection in operation here. More rubbish analysis

Government circles in New Delhi seem to agree as they brace for what might turn out to be possible post-Sharif scenarios. The general elections are only months away, and if the army wants to preserve the democratic facade, they could allow Sharif to stay on until then. Second, Sharif's younger brother Shahbaz could take over his mantle.

Army Army Army. Man we really have them spooked over the years!!

Although Shahbaz would be an easier transition, he might remain severely constrained, and anyway, elections are around the corner, so it is unlikely he would want to pick up the Sharif flak, and might prefer to be a fresh face in the elections.

Promoting more nepotism in Pakistan is prefferable for India rather than promote good governance for everyone not just indians.

My breakdown of this utter pile of nonsense.

 

[hussain123]

I hope you know its last year of PMLN govt and they didn't find a single foreign minister in their whole party to appoint so they kept dumb foreign advisors like Sartaj Aziz and Fatmi who kept playing circus in last 4 years and failed.

Sir maybe in your worldview seasoned diplomats like sartaj aziz and fatemi are dumb even though they have cut their teeth in international diplomacy for decades.when military generals masquerade as foreign policy experts you know why pakistan despite having such a strong case in kashmir has allowed india to successfully project itself as a victim.

 

[Mian]

My breakdown of this utter pile of nonsense.

What a reply POTW!

 

[Lonewarrior]

I think work at port started and completed in Musharraf govt and it was handed over to Singapore company? China and Iran jumped in during PPP govt and Iran was kicked out from project in PMLN govt.

Yup it was started in musharraf govt ....

Gwadar project launched

March 23, 2002

https://www.dawn.com/news/27285

 

[Mian]

Sir maybe in your worldview seasoned diplomats like sartaj aziz and fatemi are dumb even though they have cut their teeth in international diplomacy for decades.when military generals masquerade as foreign policy experts you know why pakistan despite having such a strong case in kashmir has allowed india to successfully project it as a victim.

FYI experienced Sartaj Aziz failed us at many fronts including UN and seasoned Fatemi is made a scapegoat by his own government and is sacked after labeling him as a traitor for leaking sensitive information from a meeting and this all happened to save PM daughter. Google dawn leaks to get more info what happened to Fatmi

 

[Mian]

I think work at port started and completed in Musharraf govt and it was handed over to Singapore company? China and Iran jumped in during PPP govt and Iran was kicked out from project in PMLN govt.

Yup it was started in musharraf govt ....

Gwadar project launched

March 23, 2002

https://www.dawn.com/news/27285

Cc [MENTION=137989]hussain123[/MENTION]

 

[the Great Khan]

any idea in which govt the Gawadar port project was initiated ?

yes. It was started and part of it was finished in mushy's reign. He then went on to hand it over to a singaporean company, which promptly proceeded to "conveniently" make a mess of things. Singapore being a key ally of the US and all of that.

 

[PakLFC]

India should mind it's own business. Just like Pak can't do anything about a Hindu fundo like Modi being PM of India they to are helpless of how much control the army of Pakistan has. Nawaz is an Indian asset on whom they have spent heavily on. India is terrified our next PM may be a hardcore patriot.

 

[cricketjoshila]

My post was more with regards to the Indian posters on the thread.

They are wrong then.At the most they can say XYZ will be better for Indo Pak relations.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Who cares what India thinks.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Raheel Sharif had at least 3 chances to take over but he refused every time and even bajwa is doing same.

When was this? Not having a go at you, just wanting to know what you think are ripe conditions for an army takeover

 

[WebGuru]

When was this? Not having a go at you, just wanting to know what you think are ripe conditions for an army takeover

Model Town
Dherna
Dawn Leaks

Ground was also getting ready when Dherna 2.0 was starting in November for Panama leaks but Raheel was close to his retirement and selected to leave instead of getting his hands dirty.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Model Town
Dherna
Dawn Leaks

Ground was also getting ready when Dherna 2.0 was starting in November for Panama leaks but Raheel was close to his retirement and selected to leave instead of getting his hands dirty.

Oh I get you now. I was of the thought that the military was able to march into Sharif's quarters at any time and accuse him of the same crimes he's being tried under now or invent a conspiracy of taking orders from Modi. They'd always have public support in the latter case.

 

[WebGuru]

Oh I get you now. I was of the thought that the military was able to march into Sharif's quarters at any time and accuse him of the same crimes he's being tried under now or invent a conspiracy of taking orders from Modi. They'd always have public support in the latter case.

If Army use corruption cases directly instead of Sharif facing the court of law trust me he will become a far bigger shaheed thn 1999 and Army knows it really well...

 

[WebGuru]

Army proved it time and time again in last 9 years that they are no more interested in getting their hands directly dirty by taking over. They had enough chances when PPP was in govt (lawyers movement, memogate) and thn they had enough chances during this PMLN ovt but Army decided to stay away from taking over.

 

[yasir]

CPEC and Gwadar is in Army hands from more thn a decade now and govt change means nothing they are personally taking care of it because they know how important it is for Pakistan survival check core commander conf statement that happened yesterday there was a clear shut up call to stop using CPEC as a card to save your corruption.

We'll make CPEC a success, come what may: COAS
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1456715/well-make-cpec-success-come-may-coas/

There is no way Pakistan is going under milt dictator again and army isn't interested at all otherwise Raheel Sharif had at least 3 chances to take over but he refused every time and even bajwa is doing same. Army isn't in the mood to get their hands dirty again. And foreign affairs of Pak are still in Army's hand although there is a shift in their views and their own policy. Just look at the change in our policy towards Gulf countries specially Saudis we denied sending Army there during Yemen conflict when the Govt and Sharif family was interested but Army for the first time refused.

Why Army would come to power officially? - They have all the power they need behind the scene. They do the cooking and politicans are there for dishing, wrath of public is on politicians only and not on the guys with real power...This is best case scenarios for Army, west is not going to bug them that much, after all they need funding from west...This business of terrorism is good source of money for Armyed forces for decades now...

In countries like USA, most of the money is generated by income tax, that comes from employment by private sector. That income tax money funds govt and Army, they dare not to mess up that cycle. There Army's ventures are mostly outside the country, that is sort of their play ground...

In case of country like Pakistan, income tax base is weak, well very weak. Army has to create opportunities or ventures to keep going...They run lot of private sector businesses locally, then they run the terror business to get funding from west. I bet you if religion was bad business for Army, they would have let it go by now, but this is helping them in last few decades, successful Afghan war venture was not a good news for the country in many ways...

Army coming to power directly is risky business, they can loose foreign funding, plus doing dishes is not an easy job when you are on tight budget... CPEC thing is Army's baby, China is buying loan at 1.x% from west and selling to Pakistan at 4/5% rate, its win/win for China, if successful, they got the market. Its not free, Pakistan has to pay interest(the forbidden interest ), at much higher rate ...When this will fall apart, blame will be on politicians. This is another bubble, Army love this model of, I do the cooking and you the dishing...Best part people love Army, half of the media is in their pocket, extremist are anyway in there pockets...Liberals, that do not exist in the country, so nothing to stop them, why in the world they would come to power directly??

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Army proved it time and time again in last 9 years that they are no more interested in getting their hands directly dirty by taking over. They had enough chances when PPP was in govt (lawyers movement, memogate) and thn they had enough chances during this PMLN ovt but Army decided to stay away from taking over.

That's encouraging, the top brass still need to root out corruption within in certain sections of the armed forces. I saw Kiyani's name mentioned with regards to land-grabbing, can't be getting rid of Sharif then allowing unelected individuals to engage in business as usual.

 

[Mian]

Free from athiest thread now back to bashing army? Before bashing army for eating budget i hope you do know how many businesses pak army runs to fund their own welfare programs for their soldiers and i hope you know the worth of their assets build over years to fund their welfare programs to take care of soldiers and their families. From budget mostly salaries and operational cost comes.

 

[Waseem]

Free from athiest thread now back to bashing army? Before bashing army for eating budget i hope you do know how many businesses pak army runs to fund their own welfare programs for their soldiers and i hope you know the worth of their assets build over years to fund their welfare programs to take care of soldiers and their families. From budget mostly salaries and operational cost comes.

From what i have read in the last 5-6 years, certain section of our society consider their ultimate responsibility to bash Army to prove their pro democracy stance.

I remember Altaf Hussain issuing some extremely cheap and filthy statements against Pakistan Army, politicians, media, women etc etc and even hardcore MQM supporters started to feel embarassed especially after his murdabad bakwas but here comes our human rights activist Asma Jahangir who came in full support of Altaf even criticising courts for banning his speeches. Even now when Nawaz Sharif has been exposed, likes of Asma supports Nawaz by saying why only Nawaz, why can't you say Yes let's punish Nawaz and same treatment should be given to Army generals??

Strong Judiciary and media has made it almost impossible/extremely difficult for any Army general to take over. Also, India's worries isn't really our concern, they always want a compromised person to be head of our state so no surprises.

 

[Varun]

Army proved it time and time again in last 9 years that they are no more interested in getting their hands directly dirty by taking over. They had enough chances when PPP was in govt (lawyers movement, memogate) and thn they had enough chances during this PMLN ovt but Army decided to stay away from taking over.

Do they actually need to be in power though, when they are more or less the defacto chief of things behind the scenes?

Bit like Sonia Gandhi (Pakistan Army) to Manmohan Singh (poor Nawaz Sharif).

 

[English August]

Yet you want democracy for India? Practice what you preach, mate!

It's not unusual for democracies to wish dictatorship upon other countries. The US has the history of supporting tinpot dictators in Africa, Latin America and Asia. Even Britain, when it was brutally ruling countries all over the world, was a democracy at home.

At the end of the day, countries care about what's good for them, not others. If Pakistanis wanted Indians to be their well wishers, they shouldn't have broken up in the first place! Now it's too late.

Now you're stuck with your Sharifs, Zardaris, Musharrafs or Imran Khans. Take your pick. It's all the same either ways -- the deep state controls everything.