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Shoaib Malik vs MS Dhoni - Who is better in LOIs currently?

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tanveer din

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With both are experience men in their respective teams, who is more useful player currently?:djb
 
Malik has been fairly consistent as of late, Dhoni is sought of making a comeback in that it's a new run for him as a member of India without the burden of captaincy so he ought to get back to the beast he use to be
 
Shobby comfortably.:malik

MSD is clearly past it. He is not the same player he was anymore. However Shobby is still one of the key performers in the Pak ODI line up. Dhoni is nearly a liability to the Indian team while Shobby is arguably the MVP of the Pakistan team. His fitness and work ethic puts some youngsta beauties in the team to shame. Plays the finisher role in the Pak team to perfection which Dhoni is struggling to do atm. Malik for me.
 
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At the moment, Malik is a better cricketer. He has been very consistent with his batting and has bowled a reasonably good job with his bowling too.
 
Since his 90 something vs SA in Oct 2015 Dhoni has scored only one 50 and has averaged in the high 20s over 15-20 matches. He's in pathetic form. Over the same period Malik has done better.

*in odis.
 
Of course Malik is better, Dhoni is in terrible form atm, one of the reasons I feel he dropped captaincy.
 
street cricketer said:
Shobby comfortably.:malik

MSD is clearly past it. He is not the same player he was anymore. However Shobby is still one of the key performers in the Pak ODI line up. Dhoni is nearly a liability to the Indian team while Shobby is arguably the MVP of the Pakistan team. His fitness and work ethic puts some youngsta beauties in the team to shame. Plays the finisher role in the Pak team to perfection which Dhoni is struggling to do atm. Malik for me.
Click to expand...

Premature statement, your folk need to stop hyping nakli talent:kohli and pay homage to real greatness.
 
Gabbar Singh said:
Since his 90 something vs SA in Oct 2015 Dhoni has scored only one 50 and has averaged in the high 20s over 15-20 matches. He's in pathetic form. Over the same period Malik has done better.

*in odis.
Click to expand...

He is no longer captain now and there is not as much pressure on him, he'll free up a bit more and express himself better.
 
Dhoni would easily make the Pak side as a skipper

Malik would have to fight for spots.
 
Saurav said:
Dhoni would easily make the Pak side as a skipper

Malik would have to fight for spots.
Click to expand...

Malik who averages 56 at 104 SR in the last 2 years will fight for a spot? With his current batting form and useful bowling, he will walk into any ODI side, let alone India or Pakistan's.

Malik (56), Sarfraz (42), Babar(50), Hafeez (41), and Azhar(39), Sharjeel (37), Imad (42) have averaged better than Dhoni (37).

Dhoni is GOAT ODI cricketer but on current form, he is a behind Malik.
 
street cricketer said:
Every great player becomes old some day.

Dhoni is now at that stage of his career.
Click to expand...

They said the same about Sangakara but once the gloves were taken off him his exploits were there for all to see, perhaps he may not bat like he did in his prime but am sure he will perform better then he has in a long time
 
The_Odd_One said:
Malik who averages 56 at 104 SR in the last 2 years will fight for a spot? With his current batting form and useful bowling, he will walk into any ODI side, let alone India or Pakistan's.

Malik (56), Sarfraz (42), Babar(50), Hafeez (41), and Azhar(39), Sharjeel (37), Imad (42) have averaged better than Dhoni (37).

Dhoni is GOAT ODI cricketer but on current form, he is a behind Malik.
Click to expand...

Those averages seem inflated for what is essentially a weak ODI batting unit.

What are they with regards to each opposition?
 
shaz619 said:
They said the same about Sangakara but once the gloves were taken off him his exploits were there for all to see, perhaps he may not bat like he did in his prime but am sure he will perform better then he has in a long time
Click to expand...

Sanga and Dhoni are different cases. Sanga was a player who became increasingly good with age. Sangakarra was a batsman who transformed from a good to a great batsman towards the end of his career. Dhoni was a great batsman in ODIs. But he has lost his reflexes and is now a mere caricature of himself. Sangakarra wasn't affected towards the end of his career because his game wasn't based on power hitting unlike Dhoni.
 
miandadrules said:
Those averages seem inflated for what is essentially a weak ODI batting unit.

What are they with regards to each opposition?
Click to expand...

I know they are highly inflated due to Zimbabwe and SL but here we are comparing him with Dhoni who averages 24 vs Australia and 19 vs England in the last 2 years. Malik averages better against both teams.
 
The_Odd_One said:
I know they are highly inflated due to Zimbabwe and SL but here we are comparing him with Dhoni who averages 24 vs Australia and 19 vs England in the last 2 years. Malik averages better against both teams.
Click to expand...

How many games have each played against these respective sides? Also on which surfaces?
 
street cricketer said:
Sanga and Dhoni are different cases. Sanga was a player who became increasingly good with age. Sangakarra was a batsman who transformed from a good to a great batsman towards the end of his career. Dhoni was a great batsman in ODIs. But he has lost his reflexes and is now a mere caricature of himself. Sangakarra wasn't affected towards the end of his career because his game wasn't based on power hitting unlike Dhoni.
Click to expand...

Dhoni is not limited to power hitting, he has a special game awareness and ability to rotate the strike; he can easily maintain an S/R of 80-100 and smash a few at the end, it won't be like before but he'll remain a valuable member of the team. Irrespective of what your game revolves around the theory is that you tend to decline as you get older but it's not entirely true, all it is you work smarter not harder and Dhoni has enough experience to understand that.
 
miandadrules said:
How many games have each played against these respective sides? Also on which surfaces?
Click to expand...

CricInfo is your friend.

All I know is Malik won an ODI in England and Australia with his all-round performance.
Dhoni was a complete failure in his last Australian tour with the scores of 18, 11, 23, 0, and 34.
 
The_Odd_One said:
CricInfo is your friend.

All I know is Malik won an ODI in England and Australia with his all-round performance.
Dhoni was a complete failure in his last Australian tour with the scores of 18, 11, 23, 0, and 34.
Click to expand...

Malik won them?
 
miandadrules said:
Malik won them?
Click to expand...

It is pointless to debate with someone who has not even watched those games. I am no Malik fan but denying the fact that Malik won an ODI in England and another in Australia is just blind hatred and futile attempt to look cool.
 
The_Odd_One said:
It is pointless to debate with someone who has not even watched those games. I am no Malik fan but denying the fact that Malik won an ODI in England and another in Australia is just blind hatred and futile attempt to look cool.
Click to expand...

But I did watch those games.

Please explain to me how he won a game when he came in with 79 needed off 18 overs with 7 wickets in hand?

How did he win the game in England? Why are the other performers being discounted?

If I wanted to look "cool" I would hardly seek your validation.
 
miandadrules said:
But I did watch those games.

Please explain to me how he won a game when he came in with 79 needed off 18 overs with 7 wickets in hand?

How did he win the game in England? Why are the other performers being discounted?

If I wanted to look "cool" I would hardly seek your validation.
Click to expand...

Comfortably ignoring his 1/15 in 4 overs (at death), including dismissal of Mathew Wade who won Australia the previous match and then making sure with his batting that Pakistan reach the total safely does not count as a match winning performance?

Against England, it was the partnership between Sarfraz and Malik which helped Pakistan chase 300+ score.

I am not discounting hard work of other players in those victories but Malik had a very significant role and it is not wrong to say that Malik won those games. Just like it won't be wrong if someone says that Kohli won India their last game vs England, even though he could not finish the match and Jhadav played a better knock.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Comfortably ignoring his 1/15 in 4 overs (at death), including dismissal of Mathew Wade who won Australia the previous match and then making sure with his batting that Pakistan reach the total safely does not count as a match winning performance?

Against England, it was the partnership between Sarfraz and Malik which helped Pakistan chase 300+ score.

I am not discounting hard work of other players in those victories but Malik had a very significant role and it is not wrong to say that Malik won those games. Just like it won't be wrong if someone says that Kohli won India their last game vs England, even though he could not finish the match and Jhadav played a better knock.
Click to expand...

I didn't ignore anything.

He did get a wicket but that was just as much attributable to the pressure created by the other bowlers than any brilliance form Malik. Make no mistake about it that game was won by the bowlers. His batting performance is being overstated, as it was his poor start than made the game closer than it was. Total safety with 7 wickets still to come?

This is not to discount his performance but it's important to keep some perspective.

With regards to his performance against England in the dead rubber. Sure he contributed but the decisive knock came Sarfraz, with both Barbar and Rizwan also striking at over 100.

Also, where was he when the England series was alive? Suddenly dead rubbers matter?
 
miandadrules said:
I didn't ignore anything.

He did get a wicket but that was just as much attributable to the pressure created by the other bowlers than any brilliance form Malik. Make no mistake about it that game was won by the bowlers. His batting performance is being overstated, as it was his poor start than made the game closer than it was. Total safety with 7 wickets still to come?

This is not to discount his performance but it's important to keep some perspective.

With regards to his performance against England in the dead rubber. Sure he contributed but the decisive knock came Sarfraz, with both Barbar and Rizwan also striking at over 100.

Also, where was he when the England series was alive? Suddenly dead rubbers matter?
Click to expand...

Your comments seem childish, as if you're forcefully trying to not give Malik his due, whereas he clearly deserves it.

It doesn't take a Malik fan to recognize that he has been excellent since his return to the side and is gradually developing into that match-winner everyone always expected him to be. Right now he is performing far better than MSD.
 
KhalidRafi said:
Your comments seem childish, as if you're forcefully trying to not give Malik his due, whereas he clearly deserves it.

It doesn't take a Malik fan to recognize that he has been excellent since his return to the side and is gradually developing into that match-winner everyone always expected him to be. Right now he is performing far better than MSD.
Click to expand...

Sure, I'm the childish one.

Against whom has he been excellent against?
 
There are people here who will defend Malik no matter what, and on the flip side there are people who will put him down no matter what.


Choose the middle ground people. Everything is good in moderation.
 
Syed1 said:
There are people here who will defend Malik no matter what, and on the flip side there are people who will put him down no matter what.


Choose the middle ground people. Everything is good in moderation.
Click to expand...

Is asking for perspective putting him down?
 
miandadrules said:
Is asking for perspective putting him down?
Click to expand...

Please accept that Malik did well in the 2nd ODI. Keeping the runs down in the death overs while picking up the wicket of a set batsman, and then guiding the chase home. What more do you want him to do? Take a fifer and score a century?

Sure Malik's performance is very indifferent some days, but in the 2nd ODI he was very good and was one of the architects of the win.
 
Syed1 said:
Please accept that Malik did well in the 2nd ODI. Keeping the runs down in the death overs while picking up the wicket of a set batsman, and then guiding the chase home. What more do you want him to do? Take a fifer and score a century?

Sure Malik's performance is very indifferent some days, but in the 2nd ODI he was very good and was one of the architects of the win.
Click to expand...

Where have I said that he did poorly or didn't play well?
 
Malik is better than Dhoni currently (unless Dhoni gets back into form again).

Doing very well and his last innings was really good, plus took us over the line.
 
These days? Has to be Malik, especially when you take into account his bowling. He's clutch.

Dhoni is done.
 
Dhoni has not set world on fire recently like he used to.
Two different players though - one is wicketkeeper batsman while the other one is a spinning allrounder.
If we are comparing batting, it has to be Malik.
For Dhoni, one can only hope that he will bat better post captaincy.
 
Biggest critics of dhoni here but even past the sale date Dhoni is way better than shoaib malik.
 
Malik is still a top ODI player who has only been dogged by a lack of consistency and poor conversion rate.

One of the few pakistani players who has adapted to the modern ODI game.

At this point in time - he is better than Dhoni.
 
Following is what Dhoni said about Malik:


"Dhoni: "Till Raina was batting I thought it was pretty gettable. He got a tough one and after that it became difficult. Two run outs; doesn't help you when you are chasing. During bowling, we gave too many runs. I have never seen so many runs scored of cut (Malik hit over 60 runs in that region!). i felt i was 3-4 bowlers short, Ashish bowled well. Two big games coming up. From now on, its like a knock out for us. If we don't play well, we can pack up and go back home!""
 
The_Odd_One said:
Malik who averages 56 at 104 SR in the last 2 years will fight for a spot? With his current batting form and useful bowling, he will walk into any ODI side, let alone India or Pakistan's.

Malik (56), Sarfraz (42), Babar(50), Hafeez (41), and Azhar(39), Sharjeel (37), Imad (42) have averaged better than Dhoni (37).

Dhoni is GOAT ODI cricketer but on current form, he is a behind Malik.
Click to expand...

Yup, feasting on the mighty Zimbabwe which account for 30% of his runs truly makes him someone walking into any side.

He has one 100 in last two years and that against Zimbabwe. Ignore the weakened Sri Lanka and you are left with a totally mediocre record which you feel as if something amazing!
 
Gabbar Singh said:
Great timing by Dhoni lol. Perhaps he's a visitor here.
Click to expand...

:))). even before this innings I would have still opted for Dhoni over Malik! Considering most of Malik's scores have been against minnows or a depleted Lankan team! (55%)
 
street cricketer said:
Shobby comfortably.:malik

MSD is clearly past it. He is not the same player he was anymore. However Shobby is still one of the key performers in the Pak ODI line up. Dhoni is nearly a liability to the Indian team while Shobby is arguably the MVP of the Pakistan team. His fitness and work ethic puts some youngsta beauties in the team to shame. Plays the finisher role in the Pak team to perfection which Dhoni is struggling to do atm. Malik for me.
Click to expand...

shaz619 said:
Premature statement, your folk need to stop hyping nakli talent:kohli and pay homage to real greatness.
Click to expand...

shaz619 said:
He is no longer captain now and there is not as much pressure on him, he'll free up a bit more and express himself better.
Click to expand...

street cricketer said:
Every great player becomes old some day.

Dhoni is now at that stage of his career.
Click to expand...

shaz619 said:
They said the same about Sangakara but once the gloves were taken off him his exploits were there for all to see, perhaps he may not bat like he did in his prime but am sure he will perform better then he has in a long time
Click to expand...

street cricketer said:
Sanga and Dhoni are different cases. Sanga was a player who became increasingly good with age. Sangakarra was a batsman who transformed from a good to a great batsman towards the end of his career. Dhoni was a great batsman in ODIs. But he has lost his reflexes and is now a mere caricature of himself. Sangakarra wasn't affected towards the end of his career because his game wasn't based on power hitting unlike Dhoni.
Click to expand...

shaz619 said:
Dhoni is not limited to power hitting, he has a special game awareness and ability to rotate the strike; he can easily maintain an S/R of 80-100 and smash a few at the end, it won't be like before but he'll remain a valuable member of the team. Irrespective of what your game revolves around the theory is that you tend to decline as you get older but it's not entirely true, all it is you work smarter not harder and Dhoni has enough experience to understand that.
Click to expand...

:yk :yk2 :yk3

Take heed on the wisdom of brother bear, the most recent knock from dhoni was very predictable from my end
 
miandadrules said:
I didn't ignore anything.

He did get a wicket but that was just as much attributable to the pressure created by the other bowlers than any brilliance form Malik. Make no mistake about it that game was won by the bowlers. His batting performance is being overstated, as it was his poor start than made the game closer than it was. Total safety with 7 wickets still to come?

This is not to discount his performance but it's important to keep some perspective.

With regards to his performance against England in the dead rubber. Sure he contributed but the decisive knock came Sarfraz, with both Barbar and Rizwan also striking at over 100.

Also, where was he when the England series was alive? Suddenly dead rubbers matter?
Click to expand...

like if the rest of the team is filled up with Imrans and Waseems...

Malik has played 1000000 times better than his mates, a complete athlete when it comes to fitness.

though having a debate with you over Malik is totally meaningless.
 
Tekcirc said:
View attachment 72100

Yup Malik is so superior on account of feasting on utterly minnow sides.
Click to expand...

and unfortunately the rest of the team plays like minnows against minnows.

The games Malik has won us against minnows, remember, the whole pakistani lineup messed up and he was the one to cure the disease.

He is the one who has always and always stood for us against the rival team, India.

The only game that we've one against India in champions trophy, was actually his contribution.

As far as the Malik Dhoni competition is concerned, Malik wins it by a humongous margin currently.
 
street cricketer said:
Needs to be more consistent.:yk2:yk3
Click to expand...

This is his second coming after losing the captaincy so don't be cheeky with the selective criticism :mv, the period where he lost some form is attributed to being mentally drained, exhausted and the burden of captaincy consuming him after years carrying his country on those broad shoulders; now he is REBORN and RE-ENERGISED! and he shall REDESIGN, REBUILD and RECLAIM !
 
Well Dhoni just scored a century so it's Dhoni again lol. Malik had a short reign rofl. Good timing that, Dhoni has been in bad form for a year or so, that 100 was really needed.
 
super hitter said:
and unfortunately the rest of the team plays like minnows against minnows.

The games Malik has won us against minnows, remember, the whole pakistani lineup messed up and he was the one to cure the disease.

He is the one who has always and always stood for us against the rival team, India.

The only game that we've one against India in champions trophy, was actually his contribution.

As far as the Malik Dhoni competition is concerned, Malik wins it by a humongous margin currently.
Click to expand...

Malik has hardly played anyone good. This is why i was a bit sceptical before the Aus series, but he seems to be doing well in Aus, so he's putting the doubts I had to rest, I feared it was a false dawning and he only was doing well as he was facing weaker competition.

Sri Lanka is never a minnow, especially in asia dunno why people say this, I always rate them. Big achievement to beat them. Afterall they did get to the 2011 final, better than us, who are we to belittle them?

Zimbabwe and Ireland are minnows and I usually discount stats against those two countries, we usually win against them with or without Malik. There's a huge difference between between those sort of sides and us and we're expected to whitewash them home and away, it's an upset to lose even one game. As of late however has been disappointing that we've lost the odd game, but I still don't take stats against them into account. A rubbish player can do well against those teams. Even if the rest fail, it doesn't take away from the fact you played and faced a weak team (with often far below standard bowling).

Malik is doing well and deserves his place in the side. Been pretty happy especially with his performance in Aus so far, is doing his job well.
 
This thread backfired so spectacularly. OP tried to capitalize on MSD's poor form (which I am not sure is still completely gone due to his age and all) but Dhoni did the equivalent of a stiff groin kick. SUPER EFFECTIVE!
 
miandadrules said:
It was hailed as an IMPACT innings. That was the exact term.


I watched it. He hit two of the sweetest fours and the most imperious six I have ever seen.
Click to expand...

Was more impressed by the 42 game before. The 39 wasn't bad either, but not exactly an impact innings. But it's good to see someone putting in some fortitude down the order. Malik has been a perennial underachiever, you look at the stuff he does in domestic and even other countries domestic tournaments and he's some kind of Pakistani Dhoni there, clutch innings under pressure and match winning efforts and few pakistani players do do that in domestic. He just doesn't do it internationally. Has nothing to do with his position really he bats down the order in domestic too.

Remember him getting games in that 6 year period I think (between 2009-2015) and under performing, everyone hoping he'd discover some form and time after time failing. At least now he's actually looking decent, I'll take it.

It's kind of sad really, he was developing as a player up to 2009 and then suddenly lost it completely. 2009-2015 should have been his best years, instead it was his worst internationally but at the same time he was raining down domestic runs everywhere. Good form domestically, but when he stepped on the international ground at times looked like he couldn't even hold a bat during those years. Maybe he's finally got over that mental block now. He's not going to be dhoni, he's far inferior especially when it comes to facing pace, but he should be a lot better than what he is.
 
shaz619 said:
:)) He made 39 isn't it, his fans would make it out to be 390 lol
Click to expand...

He's got a huge fan base for a reason, isn't so cool that people will rate him and become his fans for no reason.

His current fan following in Pakistan is way bigger than Afridi...The only Pak player who's hard work can be compared to the other top players in cricket.

Unlike other Pak players like Shahzad etc. etc. who go to the gym to work on there biceps, he's someone who works on his cricketing skills and I'm evident for that
 
wicketpace said:
He's got a huge fan base for a reason, isn't so cool that people will rate him and become his fans for no reason.

His current fan following in Pakistan is way bigger than Afridi...The only Pak player who's hard work can be compared to the other top players in cricket.

Unlike other Pak players like Shahzad etc. etc. who go to the gym to work on there biceps, he's someone who works on his cricketing skills and I'm evident for that
Click to expand...

I'll respect him for that think he does try hard. When he was dropped he really did work hard on his game and improved his game in domestic. And he always keeps his fitness up. Felt a bit sad when things weren't working for him in internationals when he was trying to work back his place in the team as he was trying.

Opposite is Razzaq who became unfit, didn't put in the hard yards in domestic and then had a go at the captain and selectors/management for not picking him.
 
RuNS scored on Indians pitches are not equal to runs scored on real cricket pitches.

Wickets taken by quick bowlers on indian pitches is a worthy stat.
 
Black Zero said:
RuNS scored on Indians pitches are not equal to runs scored on real cricket pitches.

Wickets taken by quick bowlers on indian pitches is a worthy stat.
Click to expand...

But england scored 444 against you guys in england..why do you think that runs must be counted but 381 runs must not......when we last time toured australia we scored 300 plus in almost every match......so pitches in odi are like this anywhere in the world....you need to gain some knowledge of modern odi cricket.....if fans like you dnt have knowledge about modern cricket then how you expect it from your players to play like that and qualify by competing for world cup spot.....
 
Black Zero said:
RuNS scored on Indians pitches are not equal to runs scored on real cricket pitches.

Wickets taken by quick bowlers on indian pitches is a worthy stat.
Click to expand...

So all of Malik's heroics on Indian pitches and against Indian bowlers (come on, if our pitches are bad, our bowlers are worse) count to nothing?
 
Can't believe some people said Malik.

An out of form Dhoni is better than an in-form Malik. They are leagues apart.
 
Malik is a way more useful Player in the team than Dhoni,

Dhoni is a way better batsman than Malik...

Can someone come up with Malik Dhoni head to head records in PAKINDO matches?
 
super hitter said:
Malik is a way more useful Player in the team than Dhoni,

Dhoni is a way better batsman than Malik...

Can someone come up with Malik Dhoni head to head records in PAKINDO matches?
Click to expand...

:))) .. dont even look at that.

Dhoni will walk into all time XI of most teams, Malik ... :facepalm:
 
Both are about at the same level.
Same calibre batsman and while Dhoni has keeping Malik has also got his good bowling.
 
Mobashir said:
Both are about at the same level.
Same calibre batsman and while Dhoni has keeping Malik has also got his good bowling.
Click to expand...
You mean to say Malik has more calibre than Inzi? :O

Coz Dhoni >> Inzi any day.
 
Statsman said:
You mean to say Malik has more calibre than Inzi? :O

Coz Dhoni >> Inzi any day.
Click to expand...

Just like Malik >>> Tendulkar every second.

Dhoni is a good ODI batsman, plays the supporting role, not a match winner on himself. About the same for Malik. Malik a little more clutch, rotate strikes better and technically better, but Dhoni has better hitting abilities.
 
Mobashir said:
Just like Malik >>> Tendulkar every second

Dhoni is a good ODI batsman, plays the supporting role, not a match winner on himself. About the same for Malik. Malik a little more clutch, rotate strikes better and technically better, but Dhoni has better hitting abilities.
Click to expand...

dude, are you for real!! Dhoni not a match winner?If Dhoni was not a match winner than who is?

Best of Malik doesn't come close to average performances of Dhoni, that's plain and simple for every to see!!
Malik will blush with embarrassment at seeing this thread
 
Dhoni is one of the ATG in ODIs, and a proven match winner; there isn't even a comparison.
 
Mobashir said:
Just like Malik >>> Tendulkar every second.

Dhoni is a good ODI batsman, plays the supporting role, not a match winner on himself. About the same for Malik. Malik a little more clutch, rotate strikes better and technically better, but Dhoni has better hitting abilities.
Click to expand...

Malik is more clutch and rotates strike better than Dhoni?That has to be a big joke.
 
super hitter said:
Malik is a way more useful Player in the team than Dhoni,

Dhoni is a way better batsman than Malik...

Can someone come up with Malik Dhoni head to head records in PAKINDO matches?
Click to expand...

How is Malik more useful?Considering Dhoni can keep and is one of the best LOI tacticians?
 
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