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Should Babar Azam take bold decision to drop Shadab Khan from the Playing XI?

Energy

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This step needs to be taken now that we've seen evidence on how Nawaz, Saud, and Usama have taken their opportunities and are in currently better shape than Shadab.

Usama brings proper spinning guile while Saud brings proper middle order batting. Nawaz brings the big hits and bowling control. Shadab unfortunately isn't doing anything.

So can Bobby be bold and drop the vice captain? Needs to take this difficult decision.

Fakhar, Abdullah, Babar, Rizwan, Saud, Iftikhar, Nawaz, Usama, Hassan, Shaheen, Rauf
 
Yes,he has to.His performance has been pathetic of late
I would recommend M.nawaz to be other spinner besides osama as the Indian pitches are perfect for his style of playing.My XI shall be
Fakhar
Rizwan
Babar
Iftikhar
Saud
Salman
Nawaz
Osama
Hassan ali
Shaheen
Rouf
 
Nawaz will likely play, it's really a battle between Shadab, Mir and Agha. Shadab is the best fielder and bat at this level although he hasn't shown the latter.

The bowling looks unstable from all those guys. Dropping Shadab wont fix eveyrthing.
 
It's scary that Shadab bowled Mir and Nawaz only 5 and 6 overs each. He's shown to purposely take playing time away from his competition when he's leading a side. He bowled 10 overs himself but gave 11 overs combines to the other 2 spinners who both bowled way better than him. I know that this was a warm up game and it's good for Shadab to get into rhythm, but someone like him shouldn't be anywhere near a leadership position let alone VC/C.
 
No.

His ceiling is higher than Usama’s and he has turned it on in ICC trophies before despite being horribly out of form just prior.

Dropping him for another mediocre option doesn’t make sense.
 
Shadab is currently not performing well with either bat or ball. Considering this, why not include Usma Mir in the starting eleven for main event matches?

Usama Mir has the potential of taking crucial wickets in the middle overs and also can provide some powerful hitting towards the end of the innings.

So lets take a chance with him i guess.
 
Not in a million years will Babar do anything that is bold.
I mean giving Mohammad Haris the opening spot in the t20 WC was very bold.

Usama Mir has done nothing special in his white ball career. Shadab has at least had several spectacular past performances as well as what he brings to the table in other areas.

I'd understand if Usama was some rookie who was showing great potential in one way or another.

But he's just a 27 year old bang average leggie in the same way Shadab is.
 
It really is a no brainer. Usama Mir turns his leg-break and actually looks like taking wickets.

Neither of them are economical but calibre of right arm wrist spinners we've got in white ball cricket.
 
I'll play Mir in place of agha, Usama mir can hit properly saw from those odd runs he scored today.
 
Some tough decisions need to be made and not having apparent alternatives on the bench is not an excuse to persist with a mediocre out of form player
 
If Ashwin, Shami etc we’re Pakistani they would never ever get dropped just due to past reputation.

They do get dropped though. In Pakistan however, if you are a commercial superstar, you can ride the wave till retirement.

He needs a proper break. He’s looked out of it with the bat and ball for months now.
 
Not a bold decision at all, it’s more of a so obvious slap you in the face decision. If he has any self respect left hel fake an injured and put Abrar in the 15
 
Yes. These pitches are flat and we shouldn't need our #8 batter to score any runs. Nawaz will be decent at #7 and Mir will be more useful as a bowler based on the two warmups.

However, Shadab should come back in Chennai. He will be lethal on turning pitches.
 
We don't need agha Salman because we have ifthikar

Just play the three spinners nawaz shadab and mir
Nawaz and shadab are more than competent with the bat that agha won't be missed.
 
I doubt the think-tank will do this, although based on current form he is struggling.

If this was going to happen, it would have happened well before the World Cup.
 
I doubt the think-tank will do this, although based on current form he is struggling.

If this was going to happen, it would have happened well before the World Cup.

It would've made much more sense to drop him from the WC squad entirely. I don't think they're going to drop him now that they've taken him along. After two or three bad games, however, I don't know. I think he has three games max.
 
For the sake of Pakistan cricket team, Shadab Khan should be dropped for first few matches and Usama and Nawaz should play.
But I really worry that in 2021 World Cup confidence was given to Hasan Ali who stayed the weak link throughout the tournament. Hard decisions are needed to win tournaments. We need wicket takers especially in middle overs and Usama is the go to man.
 
Yes. These pitches are flat and we shouldn't need our #8 batter to score any runs. Nawaz will be decent at #7 and Mir will be more useful as a bowler based on the two warmups.

However, Shadab should come back in Chennai. He will be lethal on turning pitches.
Full tosses and half volleys are not lethal on any pitch. In turning pitches, par score is lower and a bowler bowling full tosses and loose deliveries plays a even bigger impact on the loss.
On these flat pitches, he is getting benefit of the doubt because everyone is getting spanked but having seen the bowling televised, I never saw Shadab taking any wickets in the Asia Cup and the Warmup games.
 
Babar will keep his favourites.
Once Pakistan are humiliated and knocked out of the world Cup he be bold for a few matches until the old guard creep back in. Rinse and Repeat
 
Shadab and Usama both can play if Babar is willing to sacrifice Nawaz's place. But I guess we might not see that happening as well.
 
He is not good enough for ODI cricket. Playing in all those low level T20 leauges have turned him into a very average cricket player. Shadab is now a bits and pieces cricketer. He is bowling full tosses and getting hit with so much ease.

It is telling that he is the so called leading spinner.
 
Full tosses and half volleys are not lethal on any pitch. In turning pitches, par score is lower and a bowler bowling full tosses and loose deliveries plays a even bigger impact on the loss.
On these flat pitches, he is getting benefit of the doubt because everyone is getting spanked but having seen the bowling televised, I never saw Shadab taking any wickets in the Asia Cup and the Warmup games.
He's an attacking bowler and will be better on pitches where he gets more help.
 
The fans who think Shadab is being hit for too many runs, see below.

His E/R is better than two key leg spinners in this world cup - Adil Rashid and Zampa.



1696527522125.png
 
The fans who think Shadab is being hit for too many runs, see below.

His E/R is better than two key leg spinners in this world cup - Adil Rashid and Zampa.



View attachment 137089
Thanks for sharing @W63L35. However, as a leg spinner your primary job is to fetch wickets whilst you get hit for extra few runs. Focus on the averages of Zampa,Rashid and Chahal these are good numbers. Shadab has an average of 38.75 which is quite bad. @Bilal7 these stats clearly show that Shadab is not an attacking bowler especially in recent year or two.
Another highly important point that these stats do not show are the type of pitches these spinners played in. Shadab has played mostly on spinner friendly tracks whilst Zampa and Adil Rashid has played most of their games on non-spin friendly tracks.
Lastly, these stats prove that Shadab is actually the worst of the lot because neither he is a genuine wicket taker in Odis neither he is good at containing runs. Next one is Usama who is just slightly better than Shadab in terms of average and economy.
 
Thanks for sharing @W63L35. However, as a leg spinner your primary job is to fetch wickets whilst you get hit for extra few runs. Focus on the averages of Zampa,Rashid and Chahal these are good numbers. Shadab has an average of 38.75 which is quite bad. @Bilal7 these stats clearly show that Shadab is not an attacking bowler especially in recent year or two.
Another highly important point that these stats do not show are the type of pitches these spinners played in. Shadab has played mostly on spinner friendly tracks whilst Zampa and Adil Rashid has played most of their games on non-spin friendly tracks.
Lastly, these stats prove that Shadab is actually the worst of the lot because neither he is a genuine wicket taker in Odis neither he is good at containing runs. Next one is Usama who is just slightly better than Shadab in terms of average and economy.


>>The fans who think Shadab is being hit for too many runs, see below.
I posted the stats for the above reason only.

>>Lastly, these stats prove that Shadab is actually the worst of the lot because neither he is a genuine wicket taker in Odis neither he is good at containing runs.
He is being hit at much lesser E/R than Zampa, Rashid and Chahal.


Yes, Shadab's S/R is not the best right now. He is not taking as many wickets as he shoukd be. Babar has acknowedged that.

Point is simple... we can bash all we want Babar for keep playing Shadab but at the end of the day;
1. Selectors should have picked a better option than Shadab if available. Who would that be?
2. Why would Babar risk losing, and then eventually losing his captaincy due to 'bad' selection? He would be an idiot, if he does that.

Who would you play in place of Shadab?

We haven't talked about the number of runs Shadab saves in the field.... way more than any other Paksitani fielder.
 
Those bowlers give up at most 0.5 runs more per over at a vastly superior average. Usama Mir has better numbers in less matches.

I am predicting Shadab will perform better than other right arm leg spinners in this world cup.
 
I am predicting Shadab will perform better than other right arm leg spinners in this world cup.

Better is relative.

He could pick up a 6 fer vs Netherlands, 4 against Afghanistam and 2 vs Sri Lanka and just 4 wicket against 6 remaining teams.

Thats 16 wickets in the World Cup and people will say he did amazing.

Stats will also show the same.

But will he be better than lets say a spinner who plays 5 BIG matches and picks up 3 wickets against Aus, Ind, Nz, Eng and SA but fails to pick up anything agaisnt Netherlands, Afghanistan and Sri Lanka? And ends up with 15 wickets only?

Shadab needs to have an impact tournament if Pakistan is to win the World Cup and that too against major teams.

We dont need his 10 wickets against minnows just like we dont need Babars 2 inevitable hundreds vs Netherlands and Afghanistan.
 
@Dr_Bassim
Better is relative and predictions don't mean anything! :)

I merely presented my opinion for the inevitable stats you will give us if Shadab manages to have a good time vs minnows.

You do have a way with figures

I give you that.

Which is why its better to nip skewed statistics in the bud : )
 
I think they should give him the first 2 or 3 matches and if he struggles, then he has to be dropped.

You cannot carry passengers in a tournament like the World Cup.
 
They will probably keep him for his fielding alone, but I don't see the value in saving 3-4 boundaries when you give away 10 with juicy full tosses anyway
 
better to nip skewed statistics in the bud : )

Skewed stats, manipulated stats, biased stats etc etc etc....

Did you ever wonder why people don't say that about mere opinions? :)
 
if he gets picked then we will see what he is made of mentally, as he will surely know if he doesn’t perform he will be sidelined for a while
 
Saw this on Facebook....

بٹلر کی دوستیوں یاریوں کا بوجھ ہم کب تلک برداشت کریں گے جونی برسٹو کیپر ہے مگر دوستی یاری کی وجہ سے کھیل رہا ہے جبکہ سٹوکس چونکہ کپتانی کا مضبوط امیدوار ہے تو وہ باہر ہے
پاکستانوں سے متاثر ایک گورے کے تاثرات
 
Skewed stats, manipulated stats, biased stats etc etc etc....

Did you ever wonder why people don't say that about mere opinions? :)

I am going to answer you based on the fact you are actually looking to understand human psyche and simply not playing around.

There are 4 things in any argument.

Opinion, Delusions, Statistics and Dishonesty.

Firstly, opinions are opinions. They are completely subjective and depends on the person uttering the opinions. They might have some evidence based on events but they are not embedded in stone. For instance, you could say my opinion is Babar greater than Tendulkar because of x, y and z. It would be your opinion and your right to have it. It may very well be a false opinion. It might not even have any credibility or weight because it is against everything you see on the cricket pitch. But it is still an opinion.

What is the difference between opinion and delusion? When facts show it is not the case but a person still clings on to his beliefs and opinions because of whatever reason. Multiple conflicting evidence could be offered but the person would stick to his beliefs. For instance, you could say Babar Azam greater than Tendulkar because of x, y and z and even if a and b evidence is presented to counter that claim, you still cling to the belief that Babar > Tendulkar. That is classic example of delusion.

Thirdly, Statistics. Statistics are neither biased, misconstrued, or manipulated or skewed. They are just a bunch of figures that if you put in a certain place, you arrive at an end result. The "operator behind the stats" is the person who is biased about the "type of output he wants from the stats". If he wants a certain result he can manipulate the stats to show the type of result he wants.

For example, Babar > Tendulkar because of x, y and z but a and b is presented to counter that claim, the person presents variable c which is the only variable that MIGHT make Babar = Tendulkar in a certain specified condition and setting. Next is to present the result in such a way that people only look at variable C and forget about A and B and suddenly lo and behold Babar = Tendulkar.

Finally dishonesty. This is completely operator dependent. After presented the statistics in the way that Variable C takes precedence and establishing statistical superiority of C, we introduce a variable D which would put variable C+D combined to be better than original claim. This variable is often very weak but has to be put because the "operator was looking for a certain end result and he had to statistically alter his studies in a certain way to make sure that original claim was completely valid and not dependent on C only.

For example Babar = Tendulkar in setting C (ignoring settings A and B) , but during a certain timeframe C+D combined was better than the original claim. This would mean Babar is for instance better than Tendulkar in UAE pitches and then add variable D (Babar at 25 had better average than Tendulkar at 25) and hence proven that Babar > Tendulkar.

In short,

Opinions - Subjective with some evidence which can either be false or true.
Delusions - Subjective and contrary to factual evidence and persist despite evidence pointing otherwise.
Statistics - Evidence based collections of facts and figures that operator uses to get an end result (unless they are double blind or triple blind).
Dishonesty - Evidence based collections of facts and figures that are manipulated to get an end result.

I hope that clears it up.
 
Thanks for sharing @W63L35. However, as a leg spinner your primary job is to fetch wickets whilst you get hit for extra few runs. Focus on the averages of Zampa,Rashid and Chahal these are good numbers. Shadab has an average of 38.75 which is quite bad. @Bilal7 these stats clearly show that Shadab is not an attacking bowler especially in recent year or two.
Another highly important point that these stats do not show are the type of pitches these spinners played in. Shadab has played mostly on spinner friendly tracks whilst Zampa and Adil Rashid has played most of their games on non-spin friendly tracks.
Lastly, these stats prove that Shadab is actually the worst of the lot because neither he is a genuine wicket taker in Odis neither he is good at containing runs. Next one is Usama who is just slightly better than Shadab in terms of average and economy.
You're reading it wrong. Shadab having a higher average is due to poor form where he isn't getting enough wickets. He's not bowling defensively, quite the contrary.

Additionally, it is a stretch to say that Shadab bowls on helpful pitches. Pakistan has some of the flattest pitches in the world and unlike Australia, the boundaries are smaller too.
 
What has Saqlain ever done as a coach apart from “fix” ajmals action. The guy has no credentials as a coach and the spinners have really regressed , considering Shadab debuted like 7 years ago he’s just been getting worse and worse. I think he only bowled two threatening deliveries this innings. What more does it take to drop this guy
 
Had an ok game today, I’d give him a 4/10 only because his 30 odd runs helped us get close to 300.

People need to understand that Shadab has been picked as a bowling all rounder, you can’t judge his performance based on his bowling only, unless the management/captain come out and state that he’s a specialist spinner, which won’t happen because no specialist spinner comes in at 7.
 
He was doing good today.

He batted exceptionally well which enabled Pakistan to reach a competitive total, most importantly he bowled less full tosses today which is the big achievement of shadab. :ROFLMAO:
 
It he has another couple of bad games, we are likely to see him replaced by Usama Mir.
 
If Shadab is not dropped from the team for Usama Mir then Pakistan will lose more games definitely. With Mir, we will have slightly better chance especially against SENA teams.
Providing Shadab further chance is not confidence provided by Babar rather it is stubbornness and failure to learn from previous mistakes.
 
Very good fielder average batter and bower which in hindsight makes him useless. Drop him and play Usama Mir or abrar Ahmed they can’t do worse
 
What’s the point of dropping him now?
It is already late but not too late from the World Cup's perspective. We just lost to the team that will finish top in group stage and might stay unbeaten throughout the group stage. We have to beat Australia otherwise we will be close to getting ousted from the tournament.
 
He should have dropped him a long time ago out for dosti yaari he won’t. Usama Mir deserves his spot in the team period
 
He should take the bold decision and resign. He’s been given a fair crack.

1-2 test championship cycle
2 T20 World Cups
ODI World Cup.

Clearly he’ll never be the guy. So cut your losses now. If he doesn’t that resign will quickly turn to a drop or retire.

He has to arrest his alarming drop in Batting effectiveness. He’s been a nothing batsman for 12 months now at least
 
Shadab has been poor for the entire year.

He was awful in England during the T20 Blast and Hundred.

Poor in the Asia Cup

and now poor in the World Cup.
 
It he has another couple of bad games, we are likely to see him replaced by Usama Mir.

How many bad games is one allowed for goodness sake? I fail to remember the last time he bowled well in an ODI. If that's how many games you're willing to give someone, why was Fakhar dropped? He's done much more for Pakistan than this pretender. And I'm not saying Fakhar shouldn't have been dropped.
 
In the 14 ODIs that Shadab has played in 2023, he averages 19 with the bat and 42 with the bowl. Has only picked up 15 wickets in those 14 matches, 4 of which came in one match vs Nepal.

Great alrounder.

:salute
 
how can you drop imam after last inning and that as well with fakhar
Imam is zero impact player and with best time to bat in India is first PP, you need Fakhar to attack and get us some advantage. Imam might have personal performances but on high scoring games and good attacks he will be a burden.
 
Babar & co would even play v Kenya they get 8/10 lakh per match that’s why rizwan & baba were fuming when they were left out v Afghan series.

Shadabs loving it bowling pies & getting quids in !
 
Former Pakistan pacer Wahab Riaz says Usama Mir should be included in the team during their next match against Australia in Bengaluru. Misbah wants Abrar in the playing XI.

Pakistan leg-spinner Shadab Khan is leaking runs at seven runs per over in the ongoing World Cup. There has been questions over his place in the playing XI.

Former Pakistan captain Shoaib Malik says Shadab should be dropped from the playing XI against Australia on October 20.

“Shadab is no doubt is a very good bowler, but he is struggling. If you see Adam Zampa too was not able to land his leg-spin on the correct spot even though he has bagged four wickets against Sri Lanka in Lucknow on Monday, but his sliders and googlies were landing correctly,” Malik said on A Sports.

“As far as Shadab is concerned, the Pakistan cricket team expect ten overs from him, not four or six. That’s why I feel he should be changed.

Former Pakistan speedster Wahab Riaz feels Shadab Khan and Mohammad Nawaz should not play together in the playing XI.

“Shadab and Nawaz should not play together for Pakistan. I would rather have Usama Mir in place of either of those two. Pakistan have been obsessed with all-rounders, but we haven’t been able to understand who our strike bowler is if pacers don’t deliver. You need to have bowlers who give you wickets,” he told PAK Skills.

Meanwhile, Misbah-ul-Haq in the A Sports says Abrar Ahmad should have been in the squad not in the travelling reserves.

“Abrar should play. In the PSL, he used to bowl in the poerplay. In the tournaments, a team will face you once only, unlike in a bilateral series. He could have been a mystery bowler and he shoould have been considered for the World Cup,” says Misbah.
 
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