Should cheating in cricket to get an advantage be considered equally bad as corruption?

[Madplayer]

Cheating has always been looked at as a less serious crime when compared to corruption like match fixing or spot fixing.

Should the changing dynamics of the game compell ICC to re-think their stance on this? More and more money is being pumped into the game like never before. This gives financial security to the players thereby reducing their chances of resorting to corruption. However, the competitiveness has increased and players are willing to cheat to win while not caring about so many cameras on the ground. They are willing to take that risk.

Has the time come to treat cheating like ball tampering, pitch tampering etc. with equally harsh or at least comparable punishments as that for corruption? For example 3-5 year bans depending on the seriousness of the crime.

 

[Wonderwoman]

Cheating has always been looked at as a less serious crime when compared to corruption like match fixing or spot fixing.

Should the changing dynamics of the game compell ICC to re-think their stance on this? More and more money is being pumped into the game like never before. This gives financial security to the players thereby reducing his chances of resorting to corruption. However, the competitiveness has increased and players are willing to cheat to win while not caring about so many cameras on the ground. They are willing to take that risk.

Has the time come to treat cheating like ball tampering, pitch tampering etc. with equally harsh or at least comparable punishments as that for corruption? For example 3-5 year bans depending on the seriousness of the crime.

Are you going to give death penalty to ever driver who jumps a red light? All crimes are not equal. All types of cheating are not the same. Motives for most crimes is financial that does not mean that all crimes are the same.

 

[Convict]

Fixing will always be the worst.

 

[CricFan2012]

Yes.

Fixing, chucking, and ball tampering are all as bad as each other.

All give a fair advantage to one team or the other.

 

[Syed1]

Fixing will always be the worst.

Blatant and pre-planned cheating isn't any less than fixing. Heck spot-fixing is a lesser offense than ball tampering. Atleast with a couple of no-balls you are not altering the course of the match. With a tampered ball you can get the ball to reverse swing appreciably and run through the opposition.

 

[AFM]

Blatant and pre-planned cheating isn't any less than fixing. Heck spot-fixing is a lesser offense than ball tampering. Atleast with a couple of no-balls you are not altering the course of the match. With a tampered ball you can get the ball to reverse swing appreciably and run through the opposition.

At least with tampering your trying to win. Any sort of fixing is giving the advantage to the opponent.

 

[Hasan123]

Selling your country for money is the lowest of the low.

 

[Syed1]

At least with tampering your trying to win. Any sort of fixing is giving the advantage to the opponent.

Not with spot-fixing.

 

[JaDed]

Fixing to lose will always be more terrible than cheating to win,both are bad but fixing will always be more terrible.

 

[AFM]

Not with spot-fixing.

No ball is an extra run to the opposition.

 

[Indiafan]

Yes.

Fixing, chucking, and ball tampering are all as bad as each other.

All give a fair advantage to one team or the other.

Isn't selling your own country out way worse than cheating to make your country win?

 

[Indiafan]

Not with spot-fixing.

That one ball you are not trying to take a wicket of the opposition. It's like giving a free-free hit to the opposition for one ball. Not to mention, you are allowing a slimy outsider bookie criminal to influence that one ball of the match. In other forms of cheating only players involved are a part

 

[Madplayer]

Are you going to give death penalty to ever driver who jumps a red light? All crimes are not equal. All types of cheating are not the same. Motives for most crimes is financial that does not mean that all crimes are the same.

My point it that with competitiveness on the rise, chances of cheating are higher now. Australia and SA are doing it, england tried it recently. Teams want to win at any cost in the modern era even with the presence of so many cameras.. Rules need to evolve too to tackle it.

By cheating,You are altering the outcome of the game. You are not giving full value of money to spectators. Its a massive crime. It cannot be seen as a lesser crime anymore. 1 match ban and a fine is not enough anymore..

 

[Madplayer]

That one ball you are not trying to take a wicket of the opposition. It's like giving a free-free hit to the opposition for one ball. Not to mention, you are allowing a slimy outsider bookie criminal to influence that one ball of the match. In other forms of cheating only players involved are a part

So its not that big a deal when players themselves cheat without directions of outsiders?

 

[WildSwing]

Yes.

Fixing, chucking, and ball tampering are all as bad as each other.

All give a fair advantage to one team or the other.

Fixing is way way worse than chucking and ball tampering. How can you even think about putting them on a similar level?

 

[JattMaula]

Selling your country/team vs cheating to win

No comparison really.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Hilarious thread. We are trying to equate a wilful act of treachery and deception against your teammates, friends, supporters to a random act of questionable skullduggery engineered to solely benefit your team. Bravo, we are truly through the looking glass here.

 

[Madplayer]

Selling your country/team vs cheating to win

No comparison really.

So ICC is the protector of patriotic feelings?

Lets be more objective here rather than emotional.

Blatant Cheating is on the rise. It brings game into disrepute. The fans' money is wasted. 1 match ban isnt scary enough.

 

[Madplayer]

Hilarious thread. We are trying to equate a wilful act of treachery and deception against your teammates, friends, supporters to a random act of questionable skullduggery engineered to solely benefit your team. Bravo, we are truly through the looking glass here.

Are you okay with 1 match ban for people who cheat the fans?

 

[Madplayer]

Fixing is way way worse than chucking and ball tampering. How can you even think about putting them on a similar level?

Some English players blame Ajmal's chucking for ending their careers. Its not a big enough deal??

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

So will you give a life sentence to someone who stole a bag of chips? The thread does not make any sense.

Fixing is totally a different subject. Selling out your country for some money is different from trying to win the game for your country. It could be off limits sledging or ball- tempering, but that's what happens in the heat of the moment.

 

[WildSwing]

Some English players blame Ajmal's chucking for ending their careers. Its not a big enough deal??

Nope, he was blatantly chucking, ICC should have caught him much earlier, it's ICC's fault really (But then ICC wasn't strong enough to take action before Big 3). Also I don't even understand this comparison, in fixing a person is not only playing against his own team (thereby cheating his own teammates and fans ) but he's also taking money to underperform, that's not just a crime against the sport but a criminal offense too. Ball tampering and chucking stand no where near fixing

 

[Last Monetarist]

Are you okay with 1 match ban for people who cheat the fans?

No fan was cheated here. Ball tampering has been part and parcel of the game since time immemorial. Every team does it that can get away with it, the Australians just got caught. You are being utterly sanctimonious in this charade to equate it with something as repugnant as matchfixing, which is actually a team trying to deliberately throw the game and making a mockery of the sport. On the other hand, ball tampering gives one team undue advantage, but the other team can still win the match. I can't believe I have to explain this to you.

If tampering bothers you so much, I doubt how you can justify being a fan of our legendary boys from the nineties who did much worse back in the day.

 

[Madplayer]

No fan was cheated here. Ball tampering has been part and parcel of the game since time immemorial. Every team does it that can get away with it, the Australians just got caught. You are being utterly sanctimonious in this charade to equate it with something as repugnant as matchfixing, which is actually a team trying to deliberately throw the game and making a mockery of the sport. On the other hand, ball tampering gives one team undue advantage, but the other team can still win the match. I can't believe I have to explain this to you.

Dude, the Aussie PM made a statement for this. Its not serious enough for you?

If you read the OP, i am not equating these two per say. I am basically talking about whether the punishments for cheating need to be heavier in the form of lengthy bans rather than a slap on the wrist.

Your arguments are hilarious to begin with. Fans were not cheated. Everybody does it. These are lolworthy and i dont know whether to answer them seriously or just let it go.

 

[Madplayer]

Nope, he was blatantly chucking, ICC should have caught him much earlier, it's ICC's fault really (But then ICC wasn't strong enough to take action before Big 3). Also I don't even understand this comparison, in fixing a person is not only playing against his own team (thereby cheating his own teammates and fans ) but he's also taking money to underperform, that's not just a crime against the sport but a criminal offense too. Ball tampering and chucking stand no where near fixing

Do you agree that cheating ( ball tampering, pitch tampering etc) should have harsher punishments than a 1 match ban?

 

[TM Riddle]

Fixing will always be the worst no matter what. Only a true Jahil person could think of selling his country for few dollars.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Dude, the Aussie PM made a statement for this. Its not serious enough for you?

If you read the OP, i am not equating these two per say. I am basically talking about whether the punishments for cheating need to be heavier in the form of lengthy bans rather than a slap on the wrist.

Your arguments are hilarious to begin with. Fans were not cheated. Everybody does it. These are lolworthy and i dont know whether to answer them seriously or just let it go.

Bloody hell, this is what you wrote: "Has the time come to treat cheating like ball tampering, pitch tampering etc. with equally harsh or at least comparable punishments as that for corruption?"

I can't believe you've the chutzpah to even attempt to shift the goalposts. As for the Australian reaction, that's the kind of typical exceptionalism that you can expect from those hypocrites.

I have long been a proponent of legalizing some form of ball tampering given that we have flat wickets, short boundaries and disgracefully thick bats, so no I don't consider tampering to be cheating the fans. We won't get anywhere with this debate, if you still attempt to conflate fixing with tampering.

 

[TM Riddle]

It's laughable to compare the two really.
Fixing is done for personal financial gains by putting the honor of your nation aside.
If Smith had done what the likes of Amir and Co. did, CA would have banned him from playing cricket forever.
There's no equivalence whatsoever.

 

[Madplayer]

Bloody hell, this is what you wrote: "Has the time come to treat cheating like ball tampering, pitch tampering etc. with equally harsh or at least comparable punishments as that for corruption?"

you can consider one crime worse than the other in terms of intentions behind them but yoh can also have comparable punishments for both simply because both bring the game into disrepute and also because the current punishments arent really discouraging the crime enough. And no, its not as black and white as comparing a pick pocket with a murderer.
i could have articulated it better in the OP. Sorry about that. My main aim was to question the quantum of punishments meted out for the two.

I can't believe you've the chutzpah to even attempt to shift the goalposts. As for the Australian reaction, that's the kind of typical exceptionalism that you can expect from those hypocrites.

I have long been a proponent of legalizing some form of ball tampering given that we have flat wickets, short boundaries and disgracefully thick bats, so no I don't consider tampering to be cheating the fans. We won't get anywhere with this debate, if you still attempt to conflate fixing with tampering.

How is it NOT cheating the fans? Fans pay money to see a fair game. A game played by the rules whatever they may be. Whether the rules seem unfair to you as a fan is out of question here.

 

[Madplayer]

It's laughable to compare the two really.
Fixing is done for personal financial gains by putting the honor of your nation aside.
If Smith had done what the likes of Amir and Co. did, CA would have banned him from playing cricket forever.
There's no equivalence whatsoever.

To safeguard Patriotic feelings and nationalistic fervor isnt really the job of ICC. Kindly Answer the question asked in the last paragraph of OP. Do you think a 1 match ban is enough for such cheating? Shouldnt it be more than that?

 

[TM Riddle]

How is it NOT cheating the fans? Fans pay money to see a fair game. A game played by the rules whatever they may be. Whether the rules seem unfair to you as a fan is out of question here.

Apples and oranges. If tomorrow Kohli tries to tamper the ball against Pakistan in a wc final to gain an unfair advantage, no Indian fan would object to it, infact some of the nationalist types would even cheer him for that.
But God forbid, if he ever caught to be indulging in a fixing incident say let's again Pakistan, the outrage would be unimaginable with people out on the streets baying for his blood and his international career would be finished in an instant.
That's the difference.
Let me make it easier for you since everybody knows about the motives behind the creation of this thread.
What Asif, Butt and Amir did was thousand times worse. Ask any neutral fan and their answer will be the same

 

[TM Riddle]

To safeguard Patriotic feelings and nationalistic fervor isnt really the job of ICC. Kindly Answer the question asked in the last paragraph of OP. Do you think a 1 match ban is enough for such cheating? Shouldnt it be more than that?

I think Smith got away cheaply. The fact that this was all pre planned warranted a stricter action. But ICC are wimps so

 

[shokz1408]

Cheating has always been looked at as a less serious crime when compared to corruption like match fixing or spot fixing.

Should the changing dynamics of the game compell ICC to re-think their stance on this? More and more money is being pumped into the game like never before. This gives financial security to the players thereby reducing their chances of resorting to corruption. However, the competitiveness has increased and players are willing to cheat to win while not caring about so many cameras on the ground. They are willing to take that risk.

Has the time come to treat cheating like ball tampering, pitch tampering etc. with equally harsh or at least comparable punishments as that for corruption? For example 3-5 year bans depending on the seriousness of the crime.

No it shouldn't be considered equal. In one you're trying to win the game, in the other you are taking money from an outside party and costing your team runs, wickets or the entire match.

 

[Ahmad Shah]

Even with one run the course of match can be changed. I can give u countless example where a team is defeated merely by one run

For passionate players and fans this game is like a war which they have to won by hook or crook so cheating to secure victory for ur country in the heat of moment can never be as offensive as fixing in which an individual betrays his country

 

[soso_killer]

Athletes cheat all the time, it's that competitiveness that keeps them going, at times they'll cross the line. They should be punished and reprimanded when they do. But do we ban them for life as match fixers? That's taking it too far.

In football when a striker is clean through on goal a defender will invariably maul him to the ground with no intention whatsoever of playing the ball. Eloquent English speakers call it a "professional foul" and "taking one for the team". Rubbish, that's cheating.

I myself would be livid and rip my centre back to shreds if he left a striker through on goal.

Australia were blatantly obvious in their transgressions. As such they should be punished. However I have always had a problem with the inconsistency of the ICC.

What constitutes ball tampering and what doesn't? What levels of cheating are acceptable? A few years back we were discussing Faf's mint-gate saga. Even then I was left confused. In the same match Warner was seen using his wife's lip gloss on the ball, the ICC did absolutely nothing.
Players chew gum all the time and use saliva contaminated with a foreign object. Nothing ever gets done about that. Then there is hair gels of this world

To rid ourselves of all this controversy, is it not high time shinning the ball becomes the sole responsibility of the empires (even then between overs)? Any player seen thereafter rubbing the ball against his trousers or applying saliva should be dealt with the full might of the law.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Fixing is easily the worst. Ball tampering is bad but it doesn't compare

 

[mbilalk90]

Selling your country will always be worse than trying to get an (unfair) advantage to win.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Yes.

Fixing, chucking, and ball tampering are all as bad as each other.

All give a fair advantage to one team or the other.

Absolutely not.

Trying to lose destroys the sport a lot more than trying too hard to win.

There's just a fundamental difference between using illegal means to do what you are supposed to do and deliberately doing the opposite of your job.

 

[CricFan2012]

Absolutely not.

Trying to lose destroys the sport a lot more than trying too hard to win.

There's just a fundamental difference between using illegal means to do what you are supposed to do and deliberately doing the opposite of your job.

I'm sorry but to me both are unfair methods and give advantage to one team over the other, that is all that matters. When punishing, morals and emotions should go out the window.

 

[ads101]

This is how I'd list them in terms of how bad they are (worst is first)

1. Match fixing
2. Spot fixing
3. Ball tampering
4. Non-report of bookie approach
5. Chucking

Any type of fixing is far worse than ball tampering. But still pretty dishonourable. At least chucking you do it in plain view. And once it's deemed illegal you're banned suspended for it. Which is why I'd like harsher penalties for tampering, at least a year ban which is what you get for non-report of bookie approach.

 

[RainMan_]

U can never equate chucking and ball tempering with fixing.

 

[Mamba Red]

Fixing is worse than ball tampering.

If ball tampering was as bad as the OP makes it out to be every country players would be serving life sentences.

What a crap OP.

 

[Madplayer]

Fixing is worse than ball tampering.

If ball tampering was as bad as the OP makes it out to be every country players would be serving life sentences.

What a crap OP.

Let me just make it clear one final time so that it gets into the thick brains of people who are bashing the OP without understanding the purpose of the thread.

1)The OP has not made a statement now, has it? No it hasnt in case you didnt figure it out yourself. It has simply raised a question.

2) OP has not equated match fixing/corruption with cheating in terms of the intentions behind them. Taking money to lose is always the lower act. The last paragraph clearly mentions that the thread is about whether ICC should increase the extent of punishments for cheating. There are paragraphs dedicated to explaining why it should be considered in the modern era. If you read the title alone and started blabbering whatever that came to your mind then thats not OP's fault.

If ball tampering was as bad as the OP makes it out to be every country players would be serving life sentences.

Nonsensical statement devoid of any logic. The entire thread is about revising the punishments for cheating while you are running in your own circle. Its like asking about the relation between Romeo and Juliet after listening to the entire story.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Fixing is 10000 times the crime ball tampering is.

 

[Madplayer]

Apples and oranges. If tomorrow Kohli tries to tamper the ball against Pakistan in a wc final to gain an unfair advantage, no Indian fan would object to it, infact some of the nationalist types would even cheer him for that.
But God forbid, if he ever caught to be indulging in a fixing incident say let's again Pakistan, the outrage would be unimaginable with people out on the streets baying for his blood and his international career would be finished in an instant.
That's the difference.

That tells us about Indian fans more than anything else. We all saw the reaction of Aussies when this recent scandal came to fore. Indian fans accepting it doesnt mean all nations would or should.

Let me make it easier for you since everybody knows about the motives behind the creation of this thread.
What Asif, Butt and Amir did was thousand times worse. Ask any neutral fan and their answer will be the same

That most certainly was not the motive behind this post and "everybody" does not think like you. The motive was only and only to raise a question whether punishments for cheating should be made comparable to that of corruption like a 3 year ban. There are only a few kinds of punishments that you can give to a cricketer and 1 match ban or even 5 match ban is clearly not scaring anybody.

 

[TM Riddle]

That tells us about Indian fans more than anything else. We all saw the reaction of Aussies when this recent scandal came to fore. Indian fans accepting it doesnt mean all nations would or should.



That most certainly was not the motive behind this post and "everybody" does not think like you. The motive was only and only to raise a question whether punishments for cheating should be made comparable to that of corruption like a 3 year ban. There are only a few kinds of punishments that you can give to a cricketer and 1 match ban or even 5 match ban is clearly not scaring anybody.

Oh so first it was only about the fans but when I exposed your logic you shifted the goalposts to how fans of different nationalities should behave?
Why should Indian fans care about the on ground behavior of their Aussie counterparts? We are two different cultures and hence the difference.
Heck Ask any Aussie fan what he would prefer and you would get your answer.
You are not making any sense whatsoever now and only arguing for the sake of it.

 

[IndianFan2018]

ICC can do only so much in terms punishing players; it's responsibility of respective boards to set precedents by giving harsh punishments to deter anyone else to dare doing the same again.

CA is doing good job currently, same with BCCI who still upheld the ban on after he got his name cleared from courts

If boards welcome fixers, chuckers and cheats with openarm, that's upto them what kind of examples they are setting for future aspiring cricketers.

This is purely my opinion, so no offence intended

 

[IndianFan2018]

Oh so first it was only about the fans but when I exposed your logic you shifted the goalposts to how fans of different nationalities should behave?
Why should Indian fans care about the on ground behavior of their Aussie counterparts? We are two different cultures and hence the difference.
Heck Ask any Aussie fan what he would prefer and you would get your answer.
You are not making any sense whatsoever now and only arguing for the sake of it.

[MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION] can provide your opinion here ...

 

[Slog]

Is it comparable to taking PEDs?

 

[Arham_PakFan]

No.

 

[Madplayer]

Oh so first it was only about the fans but when I exposed your logic you shifted the goalposts to how fans of different nationalities should behave?
Why should Indian fans care about the on ground behavior of their Aussie counterparts? We are two different cultures and hence the difference.
Heck Ask any Aussie fan what he would prefer and you would get your answer.
You are not making any sense whatsoever now and only arguing for the sake of it.

This reply is kind of absurd at many levels.
Where did i say it was ONLY and ONLY about the fans as you are alleging?
Where did i mention that Indian fans should care about what their Aussie counterparts do?
Are you alleging that Aussie fans, like Indian fans (as you claim), would be okay with cheating?
Kindly point out where I am not making sense so that i can reply accordingly.

 

[Madplayer]

[MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION] can provide your opinion here ...

Thank you. Aussie fans like [MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION] can answer it better whether they are okay with cheating to win as [MENTION=130700]TM Riddle[/MENTION] is alleging.

 

[Executioner]

Fixing = selling out your country and team for money
Cheating = getting an unfair advantage to help your side

not compareable

 

[Convict]

Thank you. Aussie fans like [MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION] can answer it better whether they are okay with cheating to win as [MENTION=130700]TM Riddle[/MENTION] is alleging.

I've made my opinion pretty clear and Australian fans have made it pretty clear that we're unhappy with Steve Smith and whoever else was involved.

Significant suspensions and a life long removal from leadership groups are warranted.

However once they did their time I will be happy for Smith and Warner to come back as players.

If anyone got caught fixing for money I'd want them jailed with a lifelong ban from having any involvement with the sport whatsover and I would refuse to watch any match where they got picked to play for Australia.

 

[Convict]

[MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION] imo if an Australian player had been blatantly caught red handed/proven/admitted to match fixing for money they'd probably have to leave the country for good.

 

[Shafi]

Shouldn't be more than couple of match bans. People make mistake deserve to be forgiven for first offense.

 

[BreadPakoda]

I've made my opinion pretty clear and Australian fans have made it pretty clear that we're unhappy with Steve Smith and whoever else was involved.

Significant suspensions and a life long removal from leadership groups are warranted.

However once they did their time I will be happy for Smith and Warner to come back as players.

If anyone got caught fixing for money I'd want them jailed with a lifelong ban from having any involvement with the sport whatsover and I would refuse to watch any match where they got picked to play for Australia.

Would you be ok watching a match where a proven fixer is playing for the opposite team?

 

[TM Riddle]

Thank you. Aussie fans like [MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION] can answer it better whether they are okay with cheating to win as [MENTION=130700]TM Riddle[/MENTION] is alleging.

LMAO now you have resorted to putting words in my mouth. Where did I allege that Aussies were okay with fixing?

 

[Convict]

Would you be ok watching a match where a proven fixer is playing for the opposite team?

They don't represent my country so it doesn't bother me to the same extent. I had no issues with Amir playing.

 

[Kashmiri_Pak_fan]

Ball tempering vs spot fixing

I can understand ball tempering is against spirit of the game as it gives undue advantage to fielding side but what i want to know is all about spot fixing.
Can someone please elaborate what are the exact negative effects of spot fixing on cricket and why is it not allowed in cricket?
Regards.

 

[ManFan]

It is a type of fixing.

It does not affect the outcome of the match in certain cases like the 2010 Spot-Fixing Scandal.

 

[Proactive_]

Not sure if serious..

 

[mmkextreme_1]

I'm sorry but this is a crap thread

Spot-fixing is much worse in any case compared to ball tampering. You're selling your country for a few dollars.

 

[barah_admi]

Spot fixing occurs when a player takes a bribe to carry out a certain "spot" during a match. So in cricket it would be something like bowling a no ball on the 5th ball of the 10th over, in football it may be giving away a corner in the 48th minute etc.

It does not necessarily equate to match fixing and the two are often mixed up.

Oops, to answer the rest of your question, it brings the integrity of the game into disrepute. Whether or not it is as bad as ball tampering is up for debate but both are a form of cheating. Ball tampering within a systematic framework, as is the case with the modern Aus allegations, should be treated just as badly as ball tampering.

 

[Indiafan]

I can understand ball tempering is against spirit of the game as it gives undue advantage to fielding side but what i want to know is all about spot fixing.
Can someone please elaborate what are the exact negative effects of spot fixing on cricket and why is it not allowed in cricket?
Regards.

Ok, so things which are wrong with spot fixing

1) An external person, most likely a criminal, gets involved and decides what happens on certain balls in a cricket match between teams representing their nation

2) The person instructs that player exactly what to do. And pays him money, money which is made by illegal means, to do so

3) The players plays those balls (bowling or batting) not for the country he represents, but for the criminal. On those balls, wearing his nation's colors, he is representing a criminal instead

4) The player betrays his team members and his captain. His team members will go for catches, fielding, singles, etc on the ball which the player bowled/batted for the bookie

5) The player is then blackmailed by the criminal to do worse things

 

[Indiafan]

Spot fixing occurs when a player takes a bribe to carry out a certain "spot" during a match. So in cricket it would be something like bowling a no ball on the 5th ball of the 10th over, in football it may be giving away a corner in the 48th minute etc.

It does not necessarily equate to match fixing and the two are often mixed up.

Oops, to answer the rest of your question, it brings the integrity of the game into disrepute. Whether or not it is as bad as ball tampering is up for debate but both are a form of cheating. Ball tampering within a systematic framework, as is the case with the modern Aus allegations, should be treated just as badly as ball tampering.

I think spot fixing is underplayed a lot and it has more consequences for the team. First of all, you are not playing to win on that one ball and are playing for a criminal bookie. Second of all, do remember, the captain has to ensure that player is in action. The example you gave, bowling a no-ball in the 10th over, the captain has to ensure that the fixing bowlers bowls that over. What if there are better bowlers and they need a wicket but go to the worse bowler because of fixing? Does that not change the game. Similarly in batsmen, say a dot ball on 5th ball of 10th over. They has to ensure the fixing batsman has to be on strike for that ball. He might refuse singles or doubles to be on strike. How does that not affect the entire game?

It is hilarious some people think tampering, which is done in a misguided attempt to win for your nation is same as spot fixing, where you sell your country for those few balls and play in your country's colors for a criminal bookie

 

[Indiafan]

Spot fixing occurs when a player takes a bribe to carry out a certain "spot" during a match. So in cricket it would be something like bowling a no ball on the 5th ball of the 10th over, in football it may be giving away a corner in the 48th minute etc.

It does not necessarily equate to match fixing and the two are often mixed up.

Oops, to answer the rest of your question, it brings the integrity of the game into disrepute. Whether or not it is as bad as ball tampering is up for debate but both are a form of cheating. Ball tampering within a systematic framework, as is the case with the modern Aus allegations, should be treated just as badly as ball tampering.

Fixing by definition is not cheating. Cheating is something done to gain an advantage and win. Spot fixing gives the advantage to the opposite team. The definition of cheating

Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.

You don't gain an advantage by fixing

 

[barah_admi]

I think spot fixing is underplayed a lot and it has more consequences for the team. First of all, you are not playing to win on that one ball and are playing for a criminal bookie. Second of all, do remember, the captain has to ensure that player is in action. The example you gave, bowling a no-ball in the 10th over, the captain has to ensure that the fixing bowlers bowls that over. What if there are better bowlers and they need a wicket but go to the worse bowler because of fixing? Does that not change the game. Similarly in batsmen, say a dot ball on 5th ball of 10th over. They has to ensure the fixing batsman has to be on strike for that ball. He might refuse singles or doubles to be on strike. How does that not affect the entire game?

It is hilarious some people think tampering, which is done in a misguided attempt to win for your nation is same as spot fixing, where you sell your country for those few balls and play in your country's colors for a criminal bookie

I didn't underplay it, I simply stated it is not the same as match fixing, which it is not, hence the specifically different betting outcomes on display.

I also did not compare it to ALL acts of ball tampering but there is a world of difference between, Philander for example rubbing the ball on his zip or Tendulkar's "cleaning mud" incident. Both are seemingly spur of the moment and there is no or little evidence to suggest involvement of captain, coach, 12th man et al.

The Australia case is different and there is ample evidence to suggest the coach was involved, along with what we know of the captain, vice captain and various senior players. Systematic cheating, with pre-meditation has a different connotation, under both ICC guidelines AND CA guidelines.

 

[Kashmiri_Pak_fan]

But my actual question is, does not have ball tempering more negative effect on the match than spot fixing? If yes, then why is there no hard punishment for ball tempering like spot fixing?

 

[Indiafan]

But my actual question is, does not have ball tempering more negative effect on the match than spot fixing? If yes, then why is there no hard punishment for ball tempering like spot fixing?

I think you are ignoring all posts which are replies to you. But I will try again

1) Spot fixing involves criminals in a cricket match. Criminals dictate what happens on the field. A player's life can also be in danger after taking money from a bookie and failing to deliver. Also, it is illegal in many countries and police can be involved and players jailed, just like we saw with Pak trio

2) Selling out one's country, even for one ball, is way worse than cheating to win for your country. It also negatively affects a lot more than one ball for the team

 

[Kashmiri_Pak_fan]

I think you are ignoring all posts which are replies to you. But I will try again

1) Spot fixing involves criminals in a cricket match. Criminals dictate what happens on the field. A player's life can also be in danger after taking money from a bookie and failing to deliver. Also, it is illegal in many countries and police can be involved and players jailed, just like we saw with Pak trio

2) Selling out one's country, even for one ball, is way worse than cheating to win for your country. It also negatively affects a lot more than one ball for the team

Thanks for giving ur time once again. I got the point clearly by ur last two posts. Thanks again.

 

[Lefthanded]

Not entirely sure, but tampering seems to be much easier to catch. I have no idea when this allegedly common ball tampering happens considering there's several cameras always tracking every movement and location of the ball.

At least with tampering, you're risking punishment and being made a pariah just to win a game for your side. If not caught and it works, reverse swing is a breathtaking sight.

With fixing, you're using the game for personal profit, are more interested in making quick cash than doing your job and it takes a long time for people to stop asking questions when the team loses.

Tamperers at least care about the game and their stake in it, fixers don't respect the game, other players in the team, and affect the future of other people's jobs who had nothing to do with it if the team loses.

 

[faizanj]

Ball tempering in cricket is equivalent to diving in football.

 

[Madplayer]

Bump.

So CA has finally handed out lengthy bans and its a move in the direction which this thread is about i.e. "Should there be lengthier punishments for cheating which would be comparable to the punishment for corruption". I mentioned 3-5 years but we arent there yet as we can see.

With my great foresight which i am known for ( : ), i predict that this is just the beginning and if such cheating happens again, we will see even lengthier bans handed out by boards.

 

[Abdul]

Short answer: No.

Long answer: No.