Should Mohammad Hafeez and/or Shoaib Malik play for Pakistan in the T20 World Cup?

[MenInG]

Old is gold is one way to look at it - in terms of experience.

The other way is to say that both are too old and past their prime and should be discarded for one of many talented players.

Your views?

 

[Kroll]

If it gets postponed, then neither as both should be retired by the end of the year. In the slight chance it goes ahead, I'd prefer Malik but can understand the point he struggles against pace.

But that just hows how mediocre I consider Hafeez if I'm still picking Malik ahead of him.

 

[Majid Khan]

Great thread , I was just wondering why there hasn’t been much discussion on The forum on this topic of late

As far as Hafeez and Malik go, one could argue their selection in the team even while at their “peaks” (regularly scoring quarter-centuries [25s] and taking 2-fers) was questionable and their output was only that of mediocre bits-and-pieces players who as Mickey Arthur rightly said about one chap got into comfort zones and only cared about their position in the team.

And now when the same players are approaching 40 in age and the quarter-centuries are not as often as before , also their records (failures, rather) overseas are there for all to see - what value are they going to offer in the next T20 World Cup ?

Experience only counts if you’ve been there and done it when your team looked up at you to deliver.

 

[Savak]

If the T20 WC gets postponed to 2022 as being proposed, the PCB might be less inclined to select them

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Taking one of them should be enough for experience, captaincy advice to Babar, and general advice to junior players. For this reason take Hafeez who does far better against pace than Malik.

Replace Malik’s position in the squad with a younger middle order bat. Babar at 2, Haider Ali at 3, Hafeez at 4, Zeeshan Ashraf at 5 (even though he is ideally suited to opening), Iftikhar at 6, Khushdil at 7, and Shadab at 8 is not a bad combination. 9-11 are 3 pacers. 1 is an as of yet undetermined opener (Sharjeel/Kamran/Fakhar).

None of these batting positions can be replaced by Malik without weakening the side. His spin is also useless in Australia. Ideally Hafeez shouldn’t be there either but looks like we are stuck with at least one of them according to Misbah.

 

[Barragan]

No.

 

[TeymurBlake]

If the tournament goes ahead then there is a chance they both will be selected. If it gets postponed then I doubt they would but since this is Misbah-ul-Haqs Pakistan team, you never know. In my opinion, they shouldn't, in pitches with a lot of bounce and sheer pace, Hafeez & Malik will be walking wickets.

But regardless of where it takes place, these two should not be anywhere the Pakistan whatsoever. Almost 40 yet still think they deserve places in the team.

 

[Forum363]

Have to give it to a Misbah. It was a master stroke to drop them in the first t20 series against Sri Lanka and select two players who are genuinely worse but idiotic fans support them (Akmal and Shehzad), watch them inevitably fail for two games and then drop them. And then rather than selecting their ‘experience’ for the Australia tour, letting Malik and Hafeez stay back. When 5 matches in a row are lost and the next match is against Bangladesh at home - recall the two heros and fix their places until the World Cup.
[MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] who has always hated Hafeez and Malik and was glad they were dropped suddenly had to come up with a weird theory as to why it’s great they are now recalled - just to support Misbah.

 

[ads101]

I'd play none of them. In some ways harsh Malik left out given he has a good record in the PSL and international, but it's Australia and he's bad against pace, it's not worth it. Only one I'd consider is Kamran who plays shots against pace, consistently performed in domestic and PSLs and is capable of playing up the order. Between him and Fakhar if Fakhar gets back form. I'd bring back Sarfraz as he's the only realistic keeper I see in T20 right now (I'd never give Kamran the gloves again).

1. Kamran/Fakhar
2. Babar
3. Haider Ali
4. Sarfraz (wk)
5. Khushdil Shah
6. Iftikhar
7. Imad
8. Shadab
9. Amir
10. Shaheen
11. Hasnain

 

[MenInG]

A very brave person will want Hafeez and Malik in the Pakistan T20 squad!

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Both are past their prime garbage.

 

[BoomBoomCricket]

Shoaib Malik averaged under 20 in:
2012 World T20.
2013 Champions Trophy.
2014 World T20.
2017 Champions Trophy.
2019 World Cup.

Hafeez averaged under 20 in 2013 Champions Trophy.
Had a tournament strike rate under 100 in the 2012 and 2014 WT20.
Only scored one half century in 8 innings at number 4 in the 2019 ICC ODI Cricket World Cup.

There is no purpose in picking players who have been around for 20 odd years over the age of 38+ just for T20 internationals. T20 is for the youth mainly. Yes, West Indies might pick Gayle, India might pick Dhoni and South Africa might pick Steyn and Tahir just as T20 internationals players from now on. But they were genuinely world class players and proven performers on the world stage. And therefore it is different here. Malik and Hafeez are not in the same league in terms of skill or consistent performances in global tournaments over a period of time by any stretch of the imagination.

You had to pass the World Cup Test first to be able to play the T20 World Cup at the age that Hafeez and Malik are. Both had a shambolic campaign in England last summer. There should be no way back after failing so epically on the world stage and a grand tour of England like they did at the ages they are. Yes, T20 is a different form of the game, but white ball cricket is white ball cricket. Generally the best players in T20 are also effective in 50 overs cricket. The two formats are more closer together than ever before. Skills are transferable. And generally the squads for T20 and ODIs are very similar.

Better giving someone else international tournament experience who could play several ICC tournaments this decade rather than persisting with tried and tested flops in the last major white ball international tournament and in Malik's case for several ICC tournaments now.

 

[Square Drive]

ideally none but realistically speaking, Malik only (which I wouldn't mind too much).

 

[silentkiller187]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yes <a href="https://twitter.com/iramizraja?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@iramizraja</a> bhai agreed. Since all 3 of us are the end of our careers let’s retire gracefully together - I’ll call and let’s plan this for 2022? &#55357;&#56837; <a href="https://twitter.com/MHafeez22?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MHafeez22</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/jokes?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#jokes</a> <a href="https://t.co/vTwf9zzYOC">https://t.co/vTwf9zzYOC</a></p>— Shoaib Malik &#55356;&#56821;&#55356;&#56816; (@realshoaibmalik) <a href="https://twitter.com/realshoaibmalik/status/1247885498921529344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 8, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Rambo didn’t take too kindly..

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Rameez Raja during his commentating career has made fun of many cricketers but couldn't take when he got the same from Shoaib Malik lol.

If I remember correctly Rameez was a terrible batsman and not that good a captain. I think I last him captain Pakistan in Independence Cup in 1997. The same tournament where Anwar scored 194* and in that same match Rameez scored 22(51).

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I think Pakistani posters surely remember how dhoni played in world cup.
Remember that innings vs england when indians+pakistanis were cursing him. He was a great of the game unlike malik and hafeez but still see how pathetic he was at the fag end of his career.

Similarly hafeez and malik might be experienced but they will be nothing but
easy wickets for the opposition specially in australia, its better to promote youngsters.
Indians won a t20 world cup without their seniors in 2007 so i don't think experience counts for much in t20s.
You need to have a fynamic team filled with players who have the ability to accelerate at any point of time along with two accumulators and a good bowling attack.

 

[Hawkeye]

Ideally both shouldn't be there.

Malik is a definite no. Failure throughout his career. Mickey Arthur protected him last few years like his daddy.

Made sure Malik is selected for the World Cup. Then played him over Haris Sohail losing us the cup.

Hafeez - do we have a replacement for his type of batsman? Timer of the ball and can hit pace. Last 2-3 years has done really well in T20s.

So if there's a replacement we can find for Hafeez sure he shouldn't play.

But there's no replacement for him in the pipeline either.

 

[Forum363]

Ideally both shouldn't be there.

Malik is a definite no. Failure throughout his career. Mickey Arthur protected him last few years like his daddy.

Made sure Malik is selected for the World Cup. Then played him over Haris Sohail losing us the cup.

Hafeez - do we have a replacement for his type of batsman? Timer of the ball and can hit pace. Last 2-3 years has done really well in T20s.

So if there's a replacement we can find for Hafeez sure he shouldn't play.

But there's no replacement for him in the pipeline either.

LOL [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] logic for selecting Hafeez and Kami for the World Cup. 'I know they have been rubbish for hundreds of matches but we don't have anyone who can time the ball and hit pace like these two.'

Translates to 'I can no longer pretend / troll to suggest they deserve to be in the team, because even the usual dumb fans now have had enough of their performances. So instead let me mention their 'timing' and 'ability to hit pace'... and the fact that there are no replacements. While we are at it, lets drop Babar down and open with Kami because he likes it there. '

 

[Hawkeye]

LOL [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] logic for selecting Hafeez and Kami for the World Cup. 'I know they have been rubbish for hundreds of matches but we don't have anyone who can time the ball and hit pace like these two.'

Translates to 'I can no longer pretend / troll to suggest they deserve to be in the team, because even the usual dumb fans now have had enough of their performances. So instead let me mention their 'timing' and 'ability to hit pace'... and the fact that there are no replacements. While we are at it, lets drop Babar down and open with Kami because he likes it there. '

Instead of acting like a broken record, why don't you tell us the names of the solid replacements who are good timers of the ball and have a proven credentials at hitting pace?

Who is that mysterious guy you know of but we don't, who can play at Hafeez's middle order position?

 

[Forum363]

Instead of acting like a broken record, why don't you tell us the names of the solid replacements who are good timers of the ball and have a proven credentials at hitting pace?

Who is that mysterious guy you know of but we don't, who can play at Hafeez's middle order position?

Firstly, before I do that, what is your criteria for 'proven credentials at hitting pace'? Averaging 20 odd over hundreds of games with a 70ish strike and a few flashy innings?

 

[Khan12]

Firstly, before I do that, what is your criteria for 'proven credentials at hitting pace'? Averaging 20 odd over hundreds of games with a 70ish strike and a few flashy innings?

Lol with his record the whole domestic batsmens won't have a problem replicating that on international stage. Kamran with an average of 26 while the rubbish sarfraz has 34 odd shows how rubbish kamran is. Hafeez 33 same as shehzad with similar strike rate I belive. Shows what kind of hitting pace batsmens they are.

 

[Hawkeye]

Firstly, before I do that, what is your criteria for 'proven credentials at hitting pace'? Averaging 20 odd over hundreds of games with a 70ish strike and a few flashy innings?

Keep deflecting. You don't have an answer. And stop talking about history books, look at who's been our top 2-3 T20 batsmen in the last 3 years.

So, you still haven't suggested anyone capable.

 

[GreenKhan]

Keep deflecting. You don't have an answer. And stop talking about history books, look at who's been our top 2-3 T20 batsmen in the last 3 years.

So, you still haven't suggested anyone capable.

I can’t believe your lobbying for hafeez to play in yet another World Cup . He has played well in the last 2-3 years in t20s however it is a relatively small sample .

What is a bigger sample and what can’t be ignored is that he averages 20 in at least 4 t20 world cups with 1 50 .

As for replacements I would take any youngster over him. 4 t20 world cups and 4 50 over world cups is way way to much for a player who averages 32 in one dayers and 24 in T20 internationals .

 

[Hawkeye]

I can’t believe your lobbying for hafeez to play in yet another World Cup . He has played well in the last 2-3 years in t20s however it is a relatively small sample .

What is a bigger sample and what can’t be ignored is that he averages 20 in at least 4 t20 world cups with 1 50 .

As for replacements I would take any youngster over him. 4 t20 world cups and 4 50 over world cups is way way to much for a player who averages 32 in one dayers and 24 in T20 internationals .

There should be no Shoaib Malik.

Period.

He just doesn't have the ability to place half decent pace. Or even spin anymore.

I talk of Hafeez just because he has that ability and is a sweet timer of the ball. I would gladly take a 'youngster' over him if that youngsta can also time and play pace well.

We have to find replacements.

 

[Abdullah719]

I can’t believe your lobbying for hafeez to play in yet another World Cup . He has played well in the last 2-3 years in t20s however it is a relatively small sample .

What is a bigger sample and what can’t be ignored is that he averages 20 in at least 4 t20 world cups with 1 50 .

As for replacements I would take any youngster over him. 4 t20 world cups and 4 50 over world cups is way way to much for a player who averages 32 in one dayers and 24 in T20 internationals .

Five, to be precise.

 

[GreenKhan]

Five, to be precise.

Thank you . I stand corrected !!

 

[GreenKhan]

There should be no Shoaib Malik.

Period.

He just doesn't have the ability to place half decent pace. Or even spin anymore.

I talk of Hafeez just because he has that ability and is a sweet timer of the ball. I would gladly take a 'youngster' over him if that youngsta can also time and play pace well.

We have to find replacements.

How are we going to find replacements if these two “seniors “ keep coming to the squads on the basis of their “ experience “ and then failing .

Their are youngsters but they need to be given chances . The likes of khusdil shah, Talat, haider Ali , Umar amin etc have not played one World Cup yet . They might not set the World Cup alight but neither have these two considering the amount of World Cup matches they have played .

Being a “sweet timer “ and having the “ability “ have no relevance when your 39 and a proven failure at the top level .

I really detest how these two have played so many Icc tournaments and destroyed the dreams of other cricketers because of their selfishness .

Both Malik and hafeez should have retired now . Malik humiliated himself in England at the World Cup and hafeez averaged 32 in that World Cup , which actually was his best average in the 8-9 world cups he has played . That statistic alone tells us all we need to know about his “ability “.

 

[Noman]

How are we going to find replacements if these two “seniors “ keep coming to the squads on the basis of their “ experience “ and then failing .

Their are youngsters but they need to be given chances . The likes of khusdil shah, Talat, haider Ali , Umar amin etc have not played one World Cup yet . They might not set the World Cup alight but neither have these two considering the amount of World Cup matches they have played .

Being a “sweet timer “ and having the “ability “ have no relevance when your 39 and a proven failure at the top level .

I really detest how these two have played so many Icc tournaments and destroyed the dreams of other cricketers because of their selfishness .

Both Malik and hafeez should have retired now . Malik humiliated himself in England at the World Cup and hafeez averaged 32 in that World Cup , which actually was his best average in the 8-9 world cups he has played . That statistic alone tells us all we need to know about his “ability “.

I Think er need Hafees, But not Malik

 

[Khan12]

A very brave person will want Hafeez and Malik in the Pakistan T20 squad!

Or an extremely stupid person.

 

[Ted123]

T20s don't need senior players experience as much and anyways no more of Hafeez and Malik plz.

 

[Forum363]

Keep deflecting. You don't have an answer. And stop talking about history books, look at who's been our top 2-3 T20 batsmen in the last 3 years.

So, you still haven't suggested anyone capable.

I do have answers, but I want to know what your criteria is. For example, I know for a fact that Haider Ali is already a better batsman than Kamran ever was. He played some outrageous shots against the pacers.

However I know you are biased so you will just say ‘he’s too young and needs more time etc’.

So that’s why I’m asking again - what is your criteria. How do you know someone is good against pace. Otherwise when I state the names you’ll just change the criteria for each person to argue against them.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Malik averages 32 in t20 world cups having played 28 matches

Not sure how many players can do better

 

[MenInG]

I have a feeling that one of both will be in the T20 squad whenever the World Cup happens!

 

[Abdullah719]

The T20 World Cup is now 15 months away.

They will probably feature in it anyway.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

There is a clueless and incumbent selector cum coach who can’t back his decisions bravely will do a U-turn if series lost. These two have a chance to play till he is coach cum selector.

 

[Afhan Ali]

Hope Pakistan find some better players than these two.
Hope Haider Ali can be the next big thing.

 

[Saj]

The T20 World Cup is now 15 months away.

They will probably feature in it anyway.

And the next World Cup and the next....

 

[shamaan]

Fakhar
Babar
Haider
Iftikhar
Mohammed harris
Khushdil
Imad
Shadab
Shaheen
Rauf
Husnain

 

[shamaan]

Hope Pakistan find some better players than these two.
Hope Haider Ali can be the next big thing.

Mohammed Harris is a decent keeper batesman
Khusdil needs to he given extended run

 

[Majid Khan]

And the next World Cup and the next....

[MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] - That’s no exaggeration as even in the event they retire before the end of the decade, I can see Hafeez taking over as head coach / chief selector by the 2030s and Shoaib Malik could well be the specialist batting coach - future generation of cricketers are in safe hands as no doubt they will be getting tips and coaching from these senior legends who have ‘ been there and done it’ at the highest level.