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Should Pakistan use the Dukes ball? Waqar Younis thinks so

Fahdi

Fahdi

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I remember hearing Waqar's commentary the other day and he was criticising the use of the kookaburra stating that it was not suitable for the subcontinent tracks. According to him the kookaburra was suited for Australia and South Africa where the pitches are quicker whereas in the slower tracks of the SC once the ball gets softer there is barely anything for the bowlers, it does not turn and bounce and is harder to reverse and it also does not come on to the bat nicely. The duke ball remains harder and thus offers more to everyone when it is older as compared to the kookaburra. He said we should go back to using the duke ball like they did in his days, India also use the SG ball which remains harder and is thus more suitable for spin and reverse swing.

Have your say people.
 
Sounds a good idea i remember the discussion i wonder our current players feel :ajmal
 
Its also actually cheaper than the kookaburra so that should not be an argument.
 
Yes. Pakistan should. The reasons are described in the OP and Pakistan can show that they have the authority that they deserve. When ICC can allow other countries to allow different balls so why can't we.
Waqar was saying something like-"The seam is very thin and narrow and the ball becomes softer. Initially it is good to play with but as the ball gets older it becomes difficult to play with,both for batsmen and bowlers."
So,yes. The duke ball remains hard and has a good seam. Which leads to a healthy competition between bat and ball.
 
I think the Duke Test grade ball is the best ball in the game. It swings for longer time & reverses later, remains hard for the batsmen to get value for timing & it has a bit pronounced seam which helps the spinners better. I believe ENG & WI board uses Dukes Test Grade A ball for domestic FC & Test matches. PAK should use Dukes Grade A ball for domestics & Test as most of their players playing Club/County cricket in UK used to Dukes.

However, I think Dukes Grade A ball is the most expensive cricket ball, costing around $85/ball in bulk purchase.
 
No. We'd be destroying visiting teams left and right which is bound to get boring.
 
Why change a winning formula?

Pakistan haven't lost a test in the UAE since 2002.

Why change things when you've done so well?
 
Kiwi said:
Why change a winning formula?

Pakistan haven't lost a test in the UAE since 2002.

Why change things when you've done so well?
Click to expand...
Don't fix it, if it ain't broken.
 
I've always rated the Duke ball as the best.

The Reader was awful because it made mediocre seamers look like Richard Hadlee.
 
Duke balls are not ideal for subcontinent pitches. The ball will get scuffed very quickly.

It will be good for reverse swing but new ball swing and seam will last a very small time.
 
I agree with waqar duke ball will make it easier for batsman to time there shots and get value for there strokes . While allowing pacers to stay in the game for longer
 
A recent university study of cricket balls has shown that Kooka balls are superior in build and stay harder for longer. The quality and consistency of manufacture ranks Kooka balls as the best available.
 
90MPH said:
Duke balls are not ideal for subcontinent pitches. The ball will get scuffed very quickly.

It will be good for reverse swing but new ball swing and seam will last a very small time.
Click to expand...
I guess that's why Waqar likes it being, along with Wasim, the best exponent of the art of reverse swing bowling in the history of the game.
 
Gilly said:
A recent university study of cricket balls has shown that Kooka balls are superior in build and stay harder for longer. The quality and consistency of manufacture ranks Kooka balls as the best available.
Click to expand...
Was that an Australian university perchance? And perhaps even the university study financed by Kookaburra Sport Pty Ltd ?
 
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Duke has a more pronounced seam which will cause problem for us as we struggle against any swing or seam. Better stickto kookaburra.
 
No love for SG balls? Its not bad for the subcontinental conditions and possibly cheaper than Duke ones. But nobody likes desi :D
 
Kiwi said:
Why change a winning formula?

Pakistan haven't lost a test in the UAE since 2002.

Why change things when you've done so well?
Click to expand...

That is the problem. We need to toughen up and get ready to play outside UAE. You can't hammer every team in UAE,it gets boring. :dav
 
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By the way,if the Duke ball swings more and for a longer period,it will be terrible for us. Our batting can't cope with some movement and here we are talking about a ball that swings more for a longer period of time and reverse swings later.:hafeez But that may bring our bowlers back to the party. :junaid
 
Gilly said:
Yes it was an Australian university so you know it was done by a reputable university and to a very high standard.

Sounds like you have an axe to grind, did you get rejected by Australian universities.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jst.8/pdf
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Nah, never been to Australia. Nor have I ever wanted to. As for attending university, lets put it this way, why would I ever have wanted to attend an Australian uni considering that I was at one of the best uni's in the UK, at a time when there were no student fee's, UK local education authorities provided non-repayable student grants to UK citizens for accomodation and living expenses, and I was getting a decent scholarship package on top of it all? Going to an Australian uni would have been a step down too far.
 
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Javelin said:
Nah, never been to Australia. Nor have I ever wanted to. As for attending university, lets put it this way, why would I ever have wanted to attend an Australian uni considering that I was at one of the best uni's in the UK, at a time when there were no student fee's, UK local education authorities provided non-repayable student grants to UK citizens for accomodation and living expenses, and I was getting a decent scholarship package on top of it all? Going to an Australian uni would have been a step down too far.
Click to expand...

The South Australian university is ranked 33rd in the world so I doubt you went to a better one.
 
We should always use the Duke ball. Pakistan cricket when downhill when we stopped using it.
 
90MPH said:
Duke balls are not ideal for subcontinent pitches. The ball will get scuffed very quickly.

It will be good for reverse swing but new ball swing and seam will last a very small time.
Click to expand...

I'd venture to say that Waqar would know how the ball would behave on our tracks. He's lived with cricket balls all his life. Having said that, I wonder how our batsmen would react to harder balls that stay hard for longer. Maybe they'll have trouble playing on our 'home ground' as well if the move did come about!
 
Gilly said:
Yes it was an Australian university so you know it was done by a reputable university and to a very high standard.

Sounds like you have an axe to grind, did you get rejected by Australian universities.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jst.8/pdf
Click to expand...


That study is not relevant here, because they did not include duke balls in their study. The cricket balls studied were Kookaburra Special Test, Gray-Nicolls Super Cavalier, Regent Match red, Regent Match white, and Sanspareils-Greenlands Tournament. Another problem with this study is that they were comparing lower range cricket balls from both Kookaburra and SG. None of those models are used in test matches. These models are good for school cricket. It's hard to understand why they did not go for the premium models of each kind.
 
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samplepiece said:
No love for SG balls? Its not bad for the subcontinental conditions and possibly cheaper than Duke ones. But nobody likes desi :D
Click to expand...

The most undeservingly underrated ball of them all. In my opinion, its right up there and is arguably the most versatile one of them all. Only negative being its lesser durability but that is compensated easily coz its too cheap. :D :kapil
 
freelance_cricketer said:
The most undeservingly underrated ball of them all. In my opinion, its right up there and is arguably the most versatile one of them all. Only negative being its lesser durability but that is compensated easily coz its too cheap. :D :kapil
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Have to agree. If it can help produce results on the Indian roads, it will do so on Pakistani and Emirati roads as well.
 
samplepiece said:
Have to agree. If it can help produce results on the Indian roads, it will do so on Pakistani and Emirati roads as well.
Click to expand...

SG is ideal for Pakistan given the fact that they are more of a skillfull attack rather than one which relies on pace and bounce.
 
Just out of curiosity..
Which brand of ball did Pakistan use before Kookabura?

Isnt Sialkot known for cricket equipment industry?
 
Gilly said:
The South Australian university is ranked 33rd in the world so I doubt you went to a better one.
Click to expand...
Actually I did (Higher than 33rd that is).

As for the University of South Australia being ranked 33rd in the world, well, as per the QS World University Rankings 2013, it's actually ranked 341st and not 33rd. You're out by a factor of 10.
South Australia.jpg
http://www.topuniversities.com/univ...=+faculty=+stars=false+search=south australia

test_fan said:
Originally Posted by Gilly
Yes it was an Australian university so you know it was done by a reputable university and to a very high standard.

Sounds like you have an axe to grind, did you get rejected by Australian universities.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jst.8/pdf
Click to expand...
That study is not relevant here, because they did not include duke balls in their study. The cricket balls studied were Kookaburra Special Test, Gray-Nicolls Super Cavalier, Regent Match red, Regent Match white, and Sanspareils-Greenlands Tournament. Another problem with this study is that they were comparing lower range cricket balls from both Kookaburra and SG. None of those models are used in test matches. These models are good for school cricket. It's hard to understand why they did not go for the premium models of each kind.
Click to expand...
I guess that speaks for itself.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
SG is ideal for Pakistan given the fact that they are more of a skillfull attack rather than one which relies on pace and bounce.
Click to expand...

PCB would never go for SG, as they could just choose the CA test level bowls that are near enough the same standard and slightly cheaper.
 
samplepiece said:
Just out of curiosity..
Which brand of ball did Pakistan use before Kookabura?

Isnt Sialkot known for cricket equipment industry?
Click to expand...

Waqar said they used the duke ball in their time.

On your second question the local ball we produce in Sialkot is the grays of cambridge. Its very cheap, has a more pronounced seam and also harder. Its used in our domestic cricket. I guess we can consider it if its test standard.
 
Gilly :)) His PR even extends to the choice of ball.
 
I was watching Wasim Akram on Master Class last night and he was a great advocate of the duke, grace and SG balls( mainly talked about the duke and grace). He said these balls have a more protruding seam which makes them easier to swing up front and they are also much bettar for spin later on. Waqar Younis thinks the same and Saeed Ajmal has made it quite clear that he enjoyed bowling with the duke ball.
 
:))) Gilly the CA mouthpiece even has a bias towards balls. As usual gets OWNED!
 
its seam is protruding more and hence the ball swings and seams for the first 15 overs minimum in comparison to kookaburah which hardly swings for 8 overs due to a flat seam. This i am talking about the white ball. In test cricket all Red balls are the same. I think in subcontinent they should use duke balls.
 
Reason why we are using kookaburra ball is because its being used in ICC tourney where Pakistani bowlers struggled a bit.
 
Re: Should Pakistan Use The Duke Ball? Waqar Younis thinks so.

DanishJamil said:
Reason why we are using kookaburra ball is because its being used in ICC tourney where Pakistani bowlers struggled a bit.
Click to expand...

Pakistani batsmen still struggle (irrespective of whatever ball is used)... But now with consistent use of kookaburra ball, our seam bowlers also struggle.

Instead the bowlers from visiting teams (such as Australia), are at ease when using kookaburra balls..

Waqar is absolutely right. Get the duke ball back..
 
I think we use Grays ball in domestic cricket, which is quite similar to Duke ball, so using Duke might really help our bowlers adapt well to International cricket
 
the white ball kookabura is universal through out the icc tournaments and bilateral series's u have no choice as a board and have to play with the white kookabura in odis and t20s at international level.

the grays ball has been criticised in pakistan for lack of quality, not staying in shape, fielders injuring and cutting their hands, thats why red kookabura and white kookaburas were introduced into domestic circuit but was shelved eventually due to the cost since kookabura is an expensive make.

the problem is our bowlers bowl with a substandard ball known as the grays whether its white or red in domestic cricket, case being usman shinwari swang the grays white ball miles in t20 final in pakistan, but when he reached intl level and was given kookabura his bearings were way off could hardly control the ball.



The manufacturer of the cricket ball used in international matches can depend upon location. The white Kookaburra balls are used in one-day internationals & T20Is, while the red Kookaburra is used in Tests in most nations apart from West Indies & England (Dukes) and India (SG). All One Day International matches, regardless of location, are played with Kookaburra balls
Click to expand...
 
I really hope someone can find the episode of Masterclass in which Wasim compared these balls side by side. There wasn't any difference in the white ball but the red ball of SG and Duke had a much more pronounced seem than the Kookabura.
 
Duke balls do not suit Pakistan pitches though.

It will be good for Reverse swing but the ball will get knackered in no time.

It's fine In England because of the green lush outfields.

No harm though giving it a go.
 
The ball that Amir and Asif used to deadly effect a few years ago, with big swing and seaming, was a duke.

Hand-made in England, not mass-produced in a factory in Australia.

Dukes are another area we English are damn proud of our contribution to cricket.
 
Fahdi said:
I really hope someone can find the episode of Masterclass in which Wasim compared these balls side by side. There wasn't any difference in the white ball but the red ball of SG and Duke had a much more pronounced seem than the Kookabura.
Click to expand...
you sure wasim said so?? AFAIK its the opposite. white duke ball has a protruding seam compared to flatter seam of kookaburah.. while red balls are all same.
 
Madplayer said:
you sure wasim said so?? AFAIK its the opposite. white duke ball has a protruding seam compared to flatter seam of kookaburah.. while red balls are all same.
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100%. He showed them side by side. The white kookabura had protruding seam but the red one was quite flat. It was his second appearance on masterclass i think. I will try to find the episode.
 
Whichever ball suits our players more, we should go with that one. We should use a ball that our bowlers should be able to use with ease but also not be too hard for our batsmen to play with.
 
MarkCooper said:
The ball that Amir and Asif used to deadly effect a few years ago, with big swing and seaming, was a duke.

Hand-made in England, not mass-produced in a factory in Australia.

Dukes are another area we English are damn proud of our contribution to cricket.
Click to expand...

Good job. Junaid also swung the Indian ball miles. We really should change the cricket balls we use.

Swing said:
Whichever ball suits our players more, we should go with that one. We should use a ball that our bowlers should be able to use with ease but also not be too hard for our batsmen to play with.
Click to expand...

It'll be difficult for our batsmen at first but eventually they'll get used to it and will look much better oversees. Junaid will get his long-lost banana swing back but don't know how it'll impact the spinners.
 
Again we saw that as the ball gets old spinners and pacers alike find it tough. Waqar is now the head coach and I think he should suggest this to the PCB. The duke and SG balls will suit these conditions a lot more.
 
Another question is why can't Pakistan produce an International standard ball? We have skilled craftsmen who should be able to pull it off. PCB ought to put some thought into it.
 
Bilal7 said:
Good job. Junaid also swung the Indian ball miles. We really should change the cricket balls we use.
Click to expand...

Local made SG (Sanspareils Greenlands) balls are used in India for Test Cricket. Whereas BCCI is using the Kookaburra balls for the T20 games, IPL and ODIs.

SG Test, is hand stitched, is easier to grip and reverse swings a lot, and is loved by Indian bowlers. Paras J Anand who runs SG was born in Sialkot. Dukes is also owned by Indian businessman Dilip Jajodia.
 
Bilal7 said:
Good job. Junaid also swung the Indian ball miles. We really should change the cricket balls we use.



It'll be difficult for our batsmen at first but eventually they'll get used to it and will look much better oversees. Junaid will get his long-lost banana swing back but don't know how it'll impact the spinners.
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The balls used in ODIs are the same everywhere in the world i.e Kookabura just so you know.
 
Gilly said:
A recent university study of cricket balls has shown that Kooka balls are superior in build and stay harder for longer. The quality and consistency of manufacture ranks Kooka balls as the best available.
Click to expand...

Was it done by UWA's biomechanics experts?

I think the Kookaburra is crap. You get 20 overs with a balance between bat and ball and then the batsmen get to cash in for sixty overs.
 
Junaids said:
Was it done by UWA's biomechanics experts?

I think the Kookaburra is crap. You get 20 overs with a balance between bat and ball and then the batsmen get to cash in for sixty overs.
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agree, bakwaas ball. Its one of the reasons ODI cricket is so one sided!!
 
Kookaburra is inferior to the Duke in SC conditions. It's a different story in SA/Aus/NZ.

I'm all for Duke.
 
Finally!!!

Been barking myself about this for years. Pakistani test performances dipped once we stopped using the Duke at home. Take note!!
 
Now he is the coach, he should be pushing for this. He has the power.

Like many other things he said, remember on commentary he was always talking about being positive whilst batting etc but he's come in and we see the same old.
 
If we have to play our home Tests in UAE or SL than surely we must have Duke Ball in FC aswell as Test Cricket.
 
The most clueless move by PCB to move away from Dukes for no freaking reason. The kookaburra is crap. We need to return to what we've used for most of our history.
 
MMHS said:
I think the Duke Test grade ball is the best ball in the game. It swings for longer time & reverses later, remains hard for the batsmen to get value for timing & it has a bit pronounced seam which helps the spinners better. I believe ENG & WI board uses Dukes Test Grade A ball for domestic FC & Test matches. PAK should use Dukes Grade A ball for domestics & Test as most of their players playing Club/County cricket in UK used to Dukes.

However, I think Dukes Grade A ball is the most expensive cricket ball, costing around $85/ball in bulk purchase.
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It's more than 3 & half years back since - can anyone tell what is the price of Dukes Test Grade I ball now? It's actually possible to prepare same quality ball in Pakistan itself under the license of mother brand/company.
 
Waqar said Pakistan uses 'Grey's'

which is closer to the Duke Ball
 
Chief Destroyer said:
The most clueless move by PCB to move away from Dukes for no freaking reason. The kookaburra is crap. We need to return to what we've used for most of our history.
Click to expand...

what?

we used to have dukes for our home matches before?
 
Sports_Psychologist said:
:)) The strange thing was this guy remained coach for about 4+ years in total and he never saw M.Abbas in domestic.
Click to expand...

What's special about Abbas that he should've seen him? Nothing.

Rahat is an upgrade over him. Or wait. Are you a spreadsheet guy?
 
I don't think PCB has the wherewithal to buy expensive balls such as dukes in international games let alone in domestics because they no longer host matches in pak also, its not that important considering all office bearers of the PCB need proper financing while holidaying abroad in grand hotels and look the part.
 
spade said:
I don't think PCB has the wherewithal to buy expensive balls such as dukes in international games let alone in domestics because they no longer host matches in pak also, its not that important considering all office bearers of the PCB need proper financing while holidaying abroad in grand hotels and look the part.
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They're made in Pakistan. They can definitely get a deal if they actually wanted to.
 
Hawkeye said:
What's special about Abbas that he should've seen him? Nothing.

Rahat is an upgrade over him. Or wait. Are you a spreadsheet guy?
Click to expand...

Even if I'm the spreadsheet guy this is just wrong from a coach that he didn't see a constant domestic performer..
So how could Sadaf and etc are going to get selected if coaches like Waqar never even heard about them.. as he said "He looks really good a good prospect for the future but I've never even heard about the guy before" while commentating....
Absolutely clueless coach...
 
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PCB have reportedly approved use of Dukes ball for the next QEA season.

Kookaburra will still be used for one day matches.
 
Markhor said:
PCB have reportedly approved use of Dukes ball for the next QEA season.

Kookaburra will still be used for one day matches.
Click to expand...

Wow that is great news!

Do you think we might start using the Dukes ball at our matches in UAE? Is there any chance of this happening?
Im afraid that Abbas might become less effective with the Kookaburra ball.
 
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