Sikh stabs man with kirpan

[TSA321]

http://www.ilfordrecorder.co.uk/new...eremonial_kirpan_dagger_court_hears_1_3398422

What are your views on the law allowing Sikhs to carry the kirpan?

 

[eradicator]

Kirpan should be banned everywhere in Public. Schools, Colleges , Airports, Buses , Trains .... you name it.

Tomorrow some Baba would establish a religion in which keeping a Kalashnikov would fall under a religious obligation, that doesnt mean Governments all around the World would be accepting such stupidity in order to maintain political correctness .

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The religious obligation excuse has been superceded by public safety. We have already seen that there have been strong arguments raised against burkas and kirpans and other religious garb which could be regarded as a danger should fall under the same scrutiny. I made this point previously in another thread and this incident has just shown the truth of it.

 

[tahir_dj]

The religious obligation excuse has been superceded by public safety. We have already seen that there have been strong arguments raised against burkas and kirpans and other religious garb which could be regarded as a danger should fall under the same scrutiny. I made this point previously in another thread and this incident has just shown the truth of it.

How is wearing burka become dangerous?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

How is wearing burka become dangerous?

It can conceal identity so in theory a man could rob a service station wearing a burka and CCTV coverage would be rendered useless. There have been threads raised on this before when it was being debated nationally.

 

[tahir_dj]

It can conceal identity so in theory a man could rob a service station wearing a burka and CCTV coverage would be rendered useless. There have been threads raised on this before when it was being debated nationally.

How often does that happen?

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[kinventor]

How often does that happen?

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How often sikhs stab someone with kirpan?

 

[Indiana Jones]

I'm not a Sikh but I carry a button knife with me all the time inside my socks. It has come in handy in few occasions as well. I have nothing against people carrying a knife for safety reasons.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I'm not a Sikh but I carry a button knife with me all the time inside my socks. It has come in handy in few occasions as well. I have nothing against people carrying a knife for safety reasons.

You live in India right? We are talking about developed nations here, not 3rd world nations where you could stab someone or throw acid in their face and no one would bat an eyelid.

 

[tahir_dj]

How often sikhs stab someone with kirpan?

M talking about burka

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[Ismailtoca]

It can conceal identity so in theory a man could rob a service station wearing a burka and CCTV coverage would be rendered useless. There have been threads raised on this before when it was being debated nationally.

Ski Masks do the exact same thing?

During cold weather it is not really rare to see people completely covered through Jackets, ski masks, scarves etc.


Lets all ban ski masks and scarves because people might use it to rob service stations and CCTV coverage would be useless

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Ski Masks do the exact same thing?

During cold weather it is not really rare to see people completely covered through Jackets, ski masks, scarves etc.


Lets all ban ski masks and scarves because people might use it to rob service stations and CCTV coverage would be useless

I agree, I made this same point in previous threads. You could include hoodies in that as well as these are usually used in conjunction with scarves to conceal identity. We can't have one rule for some and different for another. Probably why enforcement has proved difficult to date.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I am against carrying kirpan as well. Its uneccessary.

 

[HRP270]

Kirpan is the religious identity of Sikhs. They have a right to carry it.

 

[Mo_Ahmed84]

How often does that happen?

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Happened at a jewellery store near my house not too long ago.

 

[tahir_dj]

Happened at a jewellery store near my house not too long ago.

Shouldnt mask be banned than they also cover the whole face? Criminals are more likely to use mask than burkah.

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[ElRaja]

i lived in one of the most violent parts of london for ten years, never carried a knife. people who think its beneficial to carry knives need a reality check.

i knew sikh guys who had small ornamental blades they wore around a neck chain. seemed like a logical compromise.

 

[Myrmidon]

After what happened to that poor elderly Sikh man in Coventry, it is fine to cary it in my eyes, these guys will be easy targets because of their turbans, self defence nothing more

 

[pakistanalltheway]

Kirpan is the religious identity of Sikhs. They have a right to carry it.

Agreed .This seemed to be a one off. In the same way as people carrying out robberies while wearing a hijab .

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[Wasim1]

You live in India right? We are talking about developed nations here, not 3rd world nations where you could stab someone or throw acid in their face and no one would bat an eyelid.

Not sure if Canada Switzerland the United States fit your bill of a developed country but you are allowed to carry weapons in them....... even guns.

Not sure how a Burka is a danger. If i was walking down the street with a hoodie on and sun glasses cant see how thats any different.

 

[FreeBird]

Can they use a plastic, made in China, kirpan instead, if the religious is symbolic only?

 

[justarslan]

How is wearing burka become dangerous?

You do not know who is behind it.

 

[justarslan]

Not sure if Canada Switzerland the United States fit your bill of a developed country but you are allowed to carry weapons in them....... even guns.

Not sure how a Burka is a danger. If i was walking down the street with a hoodie on and sun glasses cant see how thats any different.

Carry a gun without proper license in New York and you will be serving 7 years in prison.

 

[Electron]

Absolutely no point carrying Kirpan everywhere. Whether Sikhs like it or not, this has to stop.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

i lived in one of the most violent parts of london for ten years, never carried a knife. people who think its beneficial to carry knives need a reality check.

i knew sikh guys who had small ornamental blades they wore around a neck chain. seemed like a logical compromise.

I have seen the same and it is indeed a sensible compromise. Sikhs don't need to carry a knife for protection any more than other citizens in the UK. Maybe in Canada and Australia it is different if we are to believe the testimony of Indiana Jones, the 6ft nervous ninny with a muslim gf.

 

[TSA321]

Agreed .This seemed to be a one off.

Dunno about that

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/3688201.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/6583541.stm
http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/C...-curry-house/story-18822167-detail/story.html

Possibly here as well:
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/restaurant-stabbing-met-ignored-threats-6331036.html

 

[Indiafan]

Ski Masks do the exact same thing?

During cold weather it is not really rare to see people completely covered through Jackets, ski masks, scarves etc.


Lets all ban ski masks and scarves because people might use it to rob service stations and CCTV coverage would be useless

I don't think the talks of burkha bans are in open streets. It is in places where covering the face can be an inconvenience or a security hazard. BTW, even people wearing ski masks and all are supposed to take them off when they enter a house, school, office and even in service stations and banks. They want the same thing with burkhas

 

[TSA321]

Absolutely no point carrying Kirpan everywhere. Whether Sikhs like it or not, this has to stop.

Agreed but they'll probably view it as an attack on their religion.

 

[Bilal7]

Sikhs can obviously carry it around in the US of A. Everyone has a gun out there so a small dagger isn't going to worry anyone but foreigners.

They only use it for self-defense so I wouldn't be against them carrying it around.

 

[Bilal7]

I don't think the talks of burkha bans are in open streets. It is in places where covering the face can be an inconvenience or a security hazard. BTW, even people wearing ski masks and all are supposed to take them off when they enter a house, school, office and even in service stations and banks. They want the same thing with burkhas

What security hazards exactly? A quick check can be performed by any female staff member and business goes on as usual.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Exceptions in the law should not exist on the grounds of religion.

 

[TSA321]

Knife laws questioned after Ilford kirpan attack acquittal

http://www.ilfordrecorder.co.uk/new...fter_ilford_kirpan_attack_acquittal_1_3459158

 

[KingKhanWC]

Two stabbed and several hurt as 'chairs and bottles fly' in mass brawl inside Soho Road restaurant

West Midlands Police confirmed it is investigating the disorder in which "number of people were injured" and "a further two people were found to have stab injuries."

The stab victims are being treated in hospital for their wounds. None of the injuries sustained in the fight are thought to be life-threatening, police said. A 25-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of grievous bodily harm (GBH). He was released pending further enquiries.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/two-stabbed-several-hurt-chairs-25270823

I heard they had swords but cannot confirm if these were proper swords or kirpan type religious weapons.

 

[Justcrazy]

Kirpan is a religious obligation , it is used as self defence , not for offence. If constitution of a country allows religious freedom , they should allow that.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Kirpan is a religious obligation , it is used as self defence , not for offence. If constitution of a country allows religious freedom , they should allow that.

That's simply bamboozling. It's being used as a weapon and can be brandished anytime.

 

[Champ_Pal]

IIRC, only Nihangs carry swords. May be they can carry ceremonious swords which cannot be used as weapons. Both sides should be happy.

 

[sweep_shot]

Kirpan should be banned. It is no different than a gangster carrying a knife.

 

[JaDed]

Kirpan should be banned. It is no different than a gangster carrying a knife.

So all Sikhs are gangsters?

 

[sweep_shot]

So all Sikhs are gangsters?

Didn't say that.

Kirpan is a sharp weapon. Nobody should carry a weapon like that.

 

[JaDed]

Didn't say that.

Kirpan is a weapon. Nobody should carry a weapon.

You made the analogy , Sikh carrying a Kirpan is no different than a gangster carrying a knife.
Just explain that.

 

[sweep_shot]

You made the analogy , Sikh carrying a Kirpan is no different than a gangster carrying a knife.
Just explain that.

Explain what?

Stop behaving like a Star Plus auntie. You know what I meant.

A weapon like that in public space can be dangerous. Many things can go wrong.

 

[JaDed]

Explain what?

Stop behaving like a Star Plus auntie. You know what I meant.

A weapon like that in public space can be dangerous. Many things can go wrong.

Star Plus auntie? No one knows what you mean except for maybe a couple of British Pakistanis, how is a Sikh carrying a Kirpan same as a gangster carrying one, how many crimes are related to Sikhs using the Kirpan?

 

[sweep_shot]

Star Plus auntie? No one knows what you mean except for maybe a couple of British Pakistanis, how is a Sikh carrying a Kirpan same as a gangster carrying one, how many crimes are related to Sikhs with Kirpan?

Do you understand what a kirpan is? It is a dagger. It is a knife.

Why would this weapon be allowed in public settings? I wouldn't want to interact with someone who carries a knife like this.

 

[JaDed]

Do you understand what a kirpan is? It is a dagger. It is a knife.

Why would this weapon be allowed in public settings? I wouldn't want to interact with someone who carries a knife like this.

You don’t understand what a kirpan is because you have no idea so maybe just read about it a little more.

None of the questions you have answered, how many Sikh related crimes are wrt Kirpan?

 

[sweep_shot]

You don’t understand what a kirpan is because you have no idea so maybe just read about it a little more.

None of the questions you have answered, how many Sikh related crimes are wrt Kirpan?

I understand what a kirpan is. It is a weapon which should not be allowed in public settings.

Stop spamming the thread.

 

[JaDed]

Kirpan is a religious obligation , it is used as self defence , not for offence. If constitution of a country allows religious freedom , they should allow that.

While I might never agree with your religious views it’s always good to see how you are always unbiased wrt every religion.

 

[GreenBee]

Dont know why everyone wants security norms relaxed when it comes to Sikhs. Fact is that many of them are using the weapons to commit crime or bully unarmed civilians. This has to stop.

 

[GreenBee]

You don’t understand what a kirpan is because you have no idea so maybe just read about it a little more.

None of the questions you have answered, how many Sikh related crimes are wrt Kirpan?

Sikhs taking out their Kirpan in street arguments is a common sight if you live in India. Sadly, it's not always for show, they do use it.

 

[PakLFC]

Kirpan is a knife that can be used as a weapon to attack anyone. No doubt it should be banned permanently at least in the west. There is no difference between carrying any weapon or a kirpan at all.

 

[Justcrazy]

While I might never agree with your religious views it’s always good to see how you are always unbiased wrt every religion.

Thank you.

I believe that if we judge it should be with same parameters.

In Canada sikhs are allowed to wear the knife , its a part of religious injuction , I believe in islam and I also believe taht everyone has a right to practice own faith. Religious injunction are part of the freedom .

Such incidents can occur involving any religion , because of that targettting a religious practice is not right.

 

[gani999]

In India, Sikhs are now allowed to bring kirpans on board domestic flights - in hand luggage.

I hope there is no disaster waiting to happen.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Kirpan is a knife that can be used as a weapon to attack anyone. No doubt it should be banned permanently at least in the west. There is no difference between carrying any weapon or a kirpan at all.

There is a big big difference.

A person carries a weapon with the intention to injure.

A baptised Sikh carries a kirpan to fulfil a religious obligation.

Banning Kirpan because of the actions of a very tiny minority is like banning cars because some people drive them illegally.

 

[PakLFC]

There is a big big difference.

A person carries a weapon with the intention to injure.

A baptised Sikh carries a kirpan to fulfil a religious obligation.

Banning Kirpan because of the actions of a very tiny minority is like banning cars because some people drive them illegally.

No I disagree. The fact is kirpan is a knife for non Sikh's who make up 100% of the world. If a fight breaks out it can be used as a weapon to harm or kill someone. A religious obligation can be wearing vermilion on your forehead, turban or hijab on your head but never something that can physically cause harm. In a moment of rage the kirpan can kill someone irrespective of it's original reason of carrying it.

 

[SalimBhai]

No I disagree. The fact is kirpan is a knife for non Sikh's who make up 100% of the world. If a fight breaks out it can be used as a weapon to harm or kill someone. A religious obligation can be wearing vermilion on your forehead, turban or hijab on your head but never something that can physically cause harm. In a moment of rage the kirpan can kill someone irrespective of it's original reason of carrying it.

Human rights come before your religious sentiments

 

[PakLFC]

Human rights come before your religious sentiments

Carrying knives should not be a human right. If other communities start doing the same in the name of religion then all fights could include such weapons.

 

[jeetu]

Kirpan is a deadly weapon. The better option could be to make sure its fused with sheath permanently. Atleast then it will be blunt object instead of sharpened weapon.

 

[PakLFC]

Kirpan is a deadly weapon. The better option could be to make sure its fused with sheath permanently. Atleast then it will be blunt object instead of sharpened weapon.

Exactly. Next the Muslim's will start carrying swords and the Hindu's tridents insisting it is their religious right to do so.

 

[Justcrazy]

Exactly. Next the Muslim's will start carrying swords and the Hindu's tridents insisting it is their religious right to do so.

Carrying Kirpan is religious requirement of sikhs right from the start , they are not claiming it now , if the Goernment feels it is unsafe , if too many such incidents takes place , they need to talk to the representatives of sikhs and come to a proper solution.

This is a sensitive matter and should be dealt sensibly.

 

[PakLFC]

Carrying Kirpan is religious requirement of sikhs right from the start , they are not claiming it now , if the Goernment feels it is unsafe , if too many such incidents takes place , they need to talk to the representatives of sikhs and come to a proper solution.

This is a sensitive matter and should be dealt sensibly.

It is being dealt with sensibly. Ultimately the kirpan can be used as a weapon unlike a turban and hijab. The headline of this thread proves my point of a Sikh man stabbing someone. Human life is far more important then some communities ancient sentiments.

 

[Justcrazy]

It is being dealt with sensibly. Ultimately the kirpan can be used as a weapon unlike a turban and hijab. The headline of this thread proves my point of a Sikh man stabbing someone. Human life is far more important then some communities ancient sentiments.

In India sikhs are allowed to carry Kirpan on flights. Generally that is a place where safety is strict , but exception has been made.

 

[PakLFC]

In India sikhs are allowed to carry Kirpan on flights. Generally that is a place where safety is strict , but exception has been made.

I see so stabbing people in India is more acceptable then elsewhere. Great logic!