Sir David Amess killing was terrorist incident, Met Police say

[Robert]

Of course Bush said that.

He didn’t say “kill Muslims”. Listen to your own link. You’ve done it again, making stuff up.

 

[PakLFC]

Because the thread is about the murder of a British MP in Britain by an alleged terrorist who is Muslim. You asked why the MSM only talks about Muslim terrorists in Britain and I replied that they also talk about hard-right terrorists.

As for Northern Ireland, there are a few Prod Republicans and a few Catholic Loyalists so the relationship between religion and nationalism is not absolute though there is a strong correlation. The UVF and UDA were Protestant and I heard them mentioned on the news as “Protestant paramilitaries”.

I never mentioned “British lives”. You really should stop making up stuff you think people have sad when they didn’t.

No! Brits always tell us about British lives as if they are from a different world, i hate it when they do that like the American's do. So non British lives mean nothing or Britain going abroad to kill innocent Muslim's?. 9/11 had nothing to do with the UK at all then why did it get involved. Christian terrorists is the term you are looking for not this "Hard right terrorists" or such terms used by the biased media. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were Christian terrorism as were the first two world wars.


Same applies to Islam that such suicide bombings have nothing to do with the faith so here your double standards can clearly be seen. Rangers and Celtic the Scottish Football clubs hate each other for religious reasons too. Jayda Fransen the member and one of the founders of "Britain First" is a devout bible thumping devout Catholic too but we never hear all this.

Once more why does the media not use the term "Christian terrorism"?. You are indeed implying that British lives are more important then that off others. Next you will tell me National Front and a humanitarian organisation!

 

[PakLFC]

He didn’t say “kill Muslims”. Listen to your own link. You’ve done it again, making stuff up.

So "go to war" means serving humanity! If someone said "go to war" with Britain or America what would that mean to you?

 

[Robert]

No! Brits always tell us about British lives as if they are from a different world, i hate it when they do that like the American's do. So non British lives mean nothing or Britain going abroad to kill innocent Muslim's?. 9/11 had nothing to do with the UK at all then why did it get involved. Christian terrorists is the term you are looking for not this "Hard right terrorists" or such terms used by the biased media. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were Christian terrorism as were the first two world wars.

Same applies to Islam that such suicide bombings have nothing to do with the faith so here your double standards can clearly be seen. Rangers and Celtic the Scottish Football clubs hate each other for religious reasons too. Jayda Fransen the member and one of the founders of "Britain First" is a devout bible thumping devout Catholic too but we never hear all this.

Once more why does the media not use the term "Christian terrorism"?. You are indeed implying that British lives are more important then that off others. Next you will tell me National Front and a humanitarian organisation!

Seventy Britons died in 9/11. NATO declared Article Five for the first time ever. An attack on one NATO state is an attack on all. UK is a NATO state.

Celtic and Rangers fans are not murdering each other for religion so this is an irrelevant point.

Fransen isn’t a terrorist because she hasn’t murdered anyone - she was jailed for racially motivated harassment of Muslims.

Once more - the British media doesn’t use the term “Christian terrorism” because there are no terrorists who kill in the name of Jesus in the UK. Even the example of the IRA is inappropriate because they were nationalists who wanted a united Ireland and British troops off NI streets. They were never engaged in holy war.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So you accept that they are driven to murder innocents by a political view.

Islamism is a Western term which can be defined as a political system of thought which posits that modern nation states should be rebuilt constitutionally, economically and legally in the terms of what it considers total Islamic practice. Islamism would therefore be opposed to liberal democratic institutions.

It first appeared in history in a US court in 1891. It came into common use in French academia in the 1970s and the use spread into English, replacing the term “Muslim fundamentalism”.

An example of Islamism began the emergence of the Muslim Brotherhood in 1928. The movement is non-violent. It became political in attempting to end British control of Egypt through nonviolent means. However it is classed as a terrorist organisation by many states including some Arab states and Russia.

Jihadism is separate from Islamism - the use of violence to achieve political Islam, as practiced by Al-Qaeda, ISIL, and further back the assassins of Anwar Sadat.

They murder because they are deluded and driven by western state terrorism , as some sort of revenge or war. MI5 chief explained this perfectly.

Westerners don't own the world. They can make up any nonsense terms to fit their agenda but this doesn't mean the world must adhere to this. You can as you support western policy inc invading and destroying nations but Muslims don't need to.

Im glad you have accepted these terms are western concepts, so please don't align them with Islam. Islam as an ideology is far advanced than any western ideology when it comes to murder, self defence and how to conduct war.

The biggest threat to world in terms of terrorism is state terrorism , economic and military by nation states. Israel, US and UK are in a league or their own but you apologise on their behalf.

 

[Gilly]

They murder because they are deluded and driven by western state terrorism , as some sort of revenge or war. MI5 chief explained this perfectly.

Westerners don't own the world. They can make up any nonsense terms to fit their agenda but this doesn't mean the world must adhere to this. You can as you support western policy inc invading and destroying nations but Muslims don't need to.

Im glad you have accepted these terms are western concepts, so please don't align them with Islam. Islam as an ideology is far advanced than any western ideology when it comes to murder, self defence and how to conduct war.

The biggest threat to world in terms of terrorism is state terrorism , economic and military by nation states. Israel, US and UK are in a league or their own but you apologise on their behalf.

ISIS and Al-qeada will be pleased at your support.

 

[KingKhanWC]

ISIS and Al-qeada will be pleased at your support.

An intelligent post as per usual from you.

I don't support them but you support Australian soldiers invading and killing innocent people in a country which has never attack the bush.

An interesting point which may resonate, criminals killed more natives when taking over their land, what is known as Australia today, compared to those groups killing people in the west.

 

[Gilly]

An intelligent post as per usual from you.

I don't support them but you support Australian soldiers invading and killing innocent people in a country which has never attack the bush.

An interesting point which may resonate, criminals killed more natives when taking over their land, what is known as Australia today, compared to those groups killing people in the west.

You British are the ones that killed the Aboriginals in Australia, it was your government that stole the land from them, its about time your government did something to compensate them. It was your government and you have to take responsibility for it, I know you won't and come up with some lame excuse like you normally do.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You British are the ones that killed the Aboriginals in Australia, it was your government that stole the land from them, its about time your government did something to compensate them. It was your government and you have to take responsibility for it, I know you won't and come up with some lame excuse like you normally do.

Brush up on your own history before pointing fingers at others. Criminals who became settlers committed numerous massacres of the natives. You and other Aussies should compensate them, as you are a descended of these settlers.

 

[Gilly]

Brush up on your own history before pointing fingers at others. Criminals who became settlers committed numerous massacres of the natives. You and other Aussies should compensate them, as you are a descended of these settlers.

Learn your own history, it was the British government that killed the natives in Australia, it was the British government that took the land, what did they teach you in history, everyone (well half intelligent people) knows that it was the British that invaded and claimed Australia. as you are a descendant of these invaders its time to pay.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Learn your own history, it was the British government that killed the natives in Australia, it was the British government that took the land, what did they teach you in history, everyone (well half intelligent people) knows that it was the British that invaded and claimed Australia. as you are a descendant of these invaders its time to pay.

British were the initial invaders. Eventually the criminals who set up house also turned into blood thirsty animals. They must teach it was angels who arrived with wings , wrongly convicted by the Brits?

 

[Gilly]

British were the initial invaders. Eventually the criminals who set up house also turned into blood thirsty animals. They must teach it was angels who arrived with wings , wrongly convicted by the Brits?

Initial invaders, you mean they only spent 100 years killing the natives and plundering the resources.

British people are responsible for stealing the natives land and killing them.

You can make excuses but you can't change history. Your government decimated the natives of Australia and you are to weak to take responsibility.

 

[Robert]

Im glad you have accepted these terms are western concepts, so please don't align them with Islam. Islam as an ideology is far advanced than any western ideology when it comes to murder, self defence and how to conduct war..

That’s highly debatable given the expansionism of the Caliphates, the exterminations that took place, as well as a slave trade which dwarfed the Atlantic Passage in scope and duration.

More recently the Caliphate of ISIL was guilty of religious totalitarian barbarity, until stopped by various states.

So let’s not pretend that Islam is somehow advanced over Western systems when it has not prevented its adherents committing horror on a massive scale too.

 

[street cricketer]

Brush up on your own history before pointing fingers at others. Criminals who became settlers committed numerous massacres of the natives. You and other Aussies should compensate them, as you are a descended of these settlers.

Learn your own history, it was the British government that killed the natives in Australia, it was the British government that took the land, what did they teach you in history, everyone (well half intelligent people) knows that it was the British that invaded and claimed Australia. as you are a descendant of these invaders its time to pay.

This is a funny conversation)

 

[PakLFC]

Seventy Britons died in 9/11. NATO declared Article Five for the first time ever. An attack on one NATO state is an attack on all. UK is a NATO state.

Celtic and Rangers fans are not murdering each other for religion so this is an irrelevant point.

Fransen isn’t a terrorist because she hasn’t murdered anyone - she was jailed for racially motivated harassment of Muslims.

Once more - the British media doesn’t use the term “Christian terrorism” because there are no terrorists who kill in the name of Jesus in the UK. Even the example of the IRA is inappropriate because they were nationalists who wanted a united Ireland and British troops off NI streets. They were never engaged in holy war.

What about when your NATO along with the UK kills other people around the world?? The 9/11 attack was still on America not the UK, even today many Brits would have died in other countries the why not attack them too?

I am afraid there are many non Muslim's who kill so why are they not terrorists like those who blow up abortion clinics in bygone years? Your double standards are for all to see....still no answer as to why th term "Christian terrorism" is never used. You don't know that Catholics and Protestants have killed each other over the years or are the IRA a humanitarian organisation??

Doesn't matter if it is the UK or elsewhere they Zionist media never uses the word "Christian terrorism" even when the NATO troops were doing exactly that in the name of your Jesus in Afghanistan. I showed you the weapons even had Biblical verses printed on them.

 

[KingKhanWC]

That’s highly debatable given the expansionism of the Caliphates, the exterminations that took place, as well as a slave trade which dwarfed the Atlantic Passage in scope and duration.

More recently the Caliphate of ISIL was guilty of religious totalitarian barbarity, until stopped by various states.

So let’s not pretend that Islam is somehow advanced over Western systems when it has not prevented its adherents committing horror on a massive scale too.

The Western slave trade was on an industrial level, nothing compared to what Muslims did.

ISIL are a bunch of criminal mercenaries, paid by the likes of Saudi, UAE who are allies of the west. They don't have any authority in the Muslim world. Only BBC and CNN take their caliphate seriously, in order to further their propaganda.

Islam is far advanced than any western systems, always has been and always will be.

 

[Robert]

The Western slave trade was on an industrial level, nothing compared to what Muslims did.

ISIL are a bunch of criminal mercenaries, paid by the likes of Saudi, UAE who are allies of the west. They don't have any authority in the Muslim world. Only BBC and CNN take their caliphate seriously, in order to further their propaganda.

Islam is far advanced than any western systems, always has been and always will be.

I dispute that. Twice as many Africans and Europeans were taken by the various Caliphates as were taken on the Atlantic Passage. The latter stopped in 1865, while the former continued until WW1. Now there were no plantations which were generational prison camps, and a taken slave could eventually become a member of a household after long service, but that still doesn’t excuse at least thirty million human souls being ripped from their families and forced to do manual labour or be concubines. Including Britons, I might add - thousands of Cornish people were enslaved by the Barbary Corsairs.

I think people who were oppressed by ISIL took them seriously enough. Several Arab states assisted in the destruction of ISIL so they took them seriously too.

Islam was more advanced than Western cultures up until 1200 CE or so, and equal in technology and learning until 1600 CE or so but then stalled, while the Renaissance brought new systems of thinking, politics, technology, art and literature and Europe overran the world.

 

[MenInG]

An IS fanatic has been found guilty of murdering Sir David Amess MP.

The Southend West MP was stabbed more than 20 times during a constituency surgery in Leigh-on-Sea, Essex on 15 October 2021.

A jury at the Old Bailey took just 18 minutes to convict Ali Harbi Ali of murder and preparing acts of terrorism.

The 26-year-old from Kentish Town, north London, had denied the charges and claimed he targeted the MP over his vote for airstrikes on Syria.

Sir David's family sat in court just a short distance from Ali as the verdicts were delivered.


BBC

 

[James]

Good to see that he has been convicted.

I anticipate a whole life tariff.

 

[James]

<b>Sir David Amess murder: Ali Harbi Ali given whole-life sentence</b>

IS fanatic Ali Harbi Ali has been given a whole-life sentence for murdering Sir David Amess MP.

Ali stabbed the Conservative MP for Southend West more than 20 times after tricking his way into a constituency surgery in Essex last year.

Sir David's family said it broke their hearts that he would have "greeted the murderer with a smile of friendship".

At the Old Bailey, Judge Mr Justice Sweeney said: "This was a murder that struck at the heart of our democracy."

Sir David, 69, was killed at the surgery he was holding at Belfairs Methodist Church in Leigh-on-Sea on 15 October.

He was stabbed after 26-year-old Ali had gone into the meeting pretending to be an NHS employee moving to the area.

Ali, from Kentish Town in north London, told the court he had plans to target various MPs, including cabinet minister Michael Gove.

He told his trial he was motivated by a desire to seek revenge against MPs who had voted for airstrikes on Syria.

Members of Sir David's family wiped away tears during the 40-minute hearing.

After sentencing, they said they felt "no elation" in a statement issued through the Metropolitan Police.

They added: "It breaks our heart to know that our husband and father would have greeted the murderer with a smile of friendship and would have been anxious to help.

"How sickening to think what happened next. It is beyond evil."

Tracy Ayling QC, for Ali, told the court she had been instructed by her client not to say anything in mitigation.

Ali pursed his lips briefly but otherwise showed little emotion as the judge handed down his sentence.

"The defendant has no remorse or shame for what he has done - quite the reverse," said the judge.

He described Sir David's death as a loss "of national significance".

He added: "He had done nothing whatsoever to justify the attack upon him, let alone his murder.

"On the contrary, he had devoted 38 years of his life to the lawful service of the public, and was engaged in doing so when he was murdered."

MPs who had once been on Ali's list of potential targets provided victim impact statements in which they described the effect it had had on their lives.

Mike Freer, Conservative MP for Finchley and Golders Green, said he and his staff would now wear stab vests and panic alarms for constituency surgeries.

Levelling Up Secretary Michael Gove said he had been at home in west London when Ali carried out armed reconnaissance outside in the months prior to attacking Sir David.

"Our security and that of our home was threatened and that has put a profound pressure on our lives," he said.

The jury took just 18 minutes on Monday to convict Ali of murder and preparing acts of terrorism.

During the trial, he said he had no regrets or shame, saying: "If I thought I did anything wrong, I wouldn't have done it".

The court was told he had planned to die as a "martyr", assuming he would be shot by police.

Julie Cushion, a long-standing aide and friend of Sir David who was at the church, shared her anguish about the killing and said she still felt guilt and anger.

In an impact statement read by the prosecution, she said: "I can still see and hear the sounds and images of the time, like the crashing of furniture.

"I remember the awful feeling of distress while we waited for help - feeling helpless and hopeless as there was nothing I could physically do to help."

She said the look on Ali's face - "smug, so self-satisfied" - had stayed with her.

She said she was now working for the constituency's new MP and was haunted by the fear of a similar attack.

Conservative Anna Firth, who won the by-election in February, welcomed Ali's whole-life sentence.

She said Sir David's "incredible work and legacy will live on through the many charities and good causes he championed".

The judge imposed a whole-life sentence, as opposed to a life sentence with a minimum term, which means Ali will not be considered for parole and will never be released from prison.

Others serving whole-life sentences include sexual predator Wayne Couzens, who raped and murdered Sarah Everard in London, far-right extremist Thomas Mair, who murdered Labour MP Jo Cox, and Ipswich serial killer Steve Wright.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-61094059

 

[90MPH]

What a piece of crap this henious fanatic was.

David Amess was by all accounts a lovely gentleman. Yes he was a fairly right wing conservative ideologically but he would talk to anyone and this vile scumbag took advantage to take his life away and give the whole community a bad name.

I actually commend the Tory government this time for keeping clam and not vilifying the Muslim community because this is exactly what this misguided individual wanted.

I’m glad he is going to rot for the rest of his sorry life behind bars.

 

[90MPH]

I dispute that. Twice as many Africans and Europeans were taken by the various Caliphates as were taken on the Atlantic Passage. The latter stopped in 1865, while the former continued until WW1. Now there were no plantations which were generational prison camps, and a taken slave could eventually become a member of a household after long service, but that still doesn’t excuse at least thirty million human souls being ripped from their families and forced to do manual labour or be concubines. Including Britons, I might add - thousands of Cornish people were enslaved by the Barbary Corsairs.

I think people who were oppressed by ISIL took them seriously enough. Several Arab states assisted in the destruction of ISIL so they took them seriously too.

Islam was more advanced than Western cultures up until 1200 CE or so, and equal in technology and learning until 1600 CE or so but then stalled, while the Renaissance brought new systems of thinking, politics, technology, art and literature and Europe overran the world.

Totally agree and a fair assessment.