Some players selected in the Pakistan team based on recommendations have indeed done extremely well

[Sarwar89]

My point here is not to support any particular narrative. Whether Abid Ali, Fawad Alam/Salahuddin/Umar Akmal or any other player should have toured South Africa is indeed a matter of debate.

But historically many former greats have indeed entered in Pakistani Cricket System via recommendation system and did a very job.

Imran Khan, Current Prime Minister and Greatest Pakistani Test player and captain was not selected on merit in 1971 tour of England. He was 18 with only handful of first class experience. His performance in 71 tour was not inspiring at all and actually did not play another test for 2/3 years. But Imran's transformation in mid 1970's changed the course of Pakistan cricket history. Imran was selected in 1971 due to influence of Javed Burki and his cousin Majid Khan.

Shoaib Mohammad, Son of legendary Hanif Muhammad did a fine job as well with a better average than Asad shafique.

Mudassar Nazar, is a classic example, son Nazar Muhammad was very handy player for almost 10 years for Pakistan.

There are some example as well, my point here is that Shan Masood has certainly improved a lot recently although he came via recommendation system.

Pressure is on Imam ul Haq because he came via reference of his uncle Inzamam ul Haq. But then again, is Imam the only player in Pakistan cricket who benefited via recommendation system.

Well history says . No. The why so much criticism on Imam.

 

[Mamoon]

Very good thread. Most people are simply too naive and idealistic.

Nepotism will always exist in some capacity and it is not always bad. In every field, you need some references and contacts. That is why networking is very important. Merit alone does not take you anywhere, because even if you deserve something, you will be bypassed by another candidate who is also deserving but has terms with the right people.

What people don't realise that hardly any player makes into Pakistan cricket purely on merit. Even most of the players with good domestic records who have played for Pakistan on "merit" have had contacts that enabled them to break into F/C cricket.

It is incredibly difficult to climb up the ladder if you do not know anyone or have any sort of influence. Some players used contacts to get into club cricket, other used contacts to get picked for regional and U-15, U-19 teams, while others used contacts to get into F/C cricket. This is where most of the nepotism takes place - it is very, very hard to get into F/C cricket in Pakistan purely on merit.

The problem is that most of the people who whine about nepotism have barely spent any time in Pakistan and don't understand and appreciate how nearly impossible it is to climb up the ranks in any field without any clout. These are the people who cry about nepotism because of their sheer ignorance.

 

[Mamoon]

I will give a concrete example - look at Fawad Alam.

He has proved his worth by becoming a F/C legend, but someone with his hockey technique would not pass a single trial anywhere in Pakistan purely on merit.

If Fawad Alam was not the son of Tariq Alam, a F/C veteran with a career spanning two decades, he would have never made it as a professional cricketer in Pakistan.

The point that I am trying to make is that nepotism is not always bad or always wrong. However, it is very often a necessity because that is how life works. No system can work on 100% merit. It is idealistic but not practical.

 

[kingusama92]

Merit alone does not take you anywhere, because even if you deserve something, you will be bypassed by another candidate who is also deserving but has terms with the right people.

There lies the problem.

Several of these players never deserved a spot.

 

[Mamoon]

There lies the problem.

Several of these players never deserved a spot.

Whether you are deserving or not, you need contacts to climb up the ranks. People need to make peace with nepotism because it is not avoidable in the real world.

 

[kingusama92]

Whether you are deserving or not, you need contacts to climb up the ranks. People need to make peace with nepotism because it is not avoidable in the real world.

Can't wait until my uncle becomes a chief selector.

 

[Sarwar89]

Very good thread. Most people are simply too naive and idealistic.

Nepotism will always exist in some capacity and it is not always bad. In every field, you need some references and contacts. That is why networking is very important. Merit alone does not take you anywhere, because even if you deserve something, you will be bypassed by another candidate who is also deserving but has terms with the right people.

What people don't realise that hardly any player makes into Pakistan cricket purely on merit. Even most of the players with good domestic records who have played for Pakistan on "merit" have had contacts that enabled them to break into F/C cricket.

It is incredibly difficult to climb up the ladder if you do not know anyone or have any sort of influence. Some players used contacts to get into club cricket, other used contacts to get picked for regional and U-15, U-19 teams, while others used contacts to get into F/C cricket. This is where most of the nepotism takes place - it is very, very hard to get into F/C cricket in Pakistan purely on merit.

The problem is that most of the people who whine about nepotism have barely spent any time in Pakistan and don't understand and appreciate how nearly impossible it is to climb up the ranks in any field without any clout. These are the people who cry about nepotism because of their sheer ignorance.

Thanks Sir

 

[Bewal Express]

Very good thread. Most people are simply too naive and idealistic.

Nepotism will always exist in some capacity and it is not always bad. In every field, you need some references and contacts. That is why networking is very important. Merit alone does not take you anywhere, because even if you deserve something, you will be bypassed by another candidate who is also deserving but has terms with the right people.

What people don't realise that hardly any player makes into Pakistan cricket purely on merit. Even most of the players with good domestic records who have played for Pakistan on "merit" have had contacts that enabled them to break into F/C cricket.

It is incredibly difficult to climb up the ladder if you do not know anyone or have any sort of influence. Some players used contacts to get into club cricket, other used contacts to get picked for regional and U-15, U-19 teams, while others used contacts to get into F/C cricket. This is where most of the nepotism takes place - it is very, very hard to get into F/C cricket in Pakistan purely on merit.

The problem is that most of the people who whine about nepotism have barely spent any time in Pakistan and don't understand and appreciate how nearly impossible it is to climb up the ranks in any field without any clout. These are the people who cry about nepotism because of their sheer ignorance.

So over a 70 yr period we see a few examples and that for you justifies corruption and nepotism. And the the chances are that people like IK would have made it anyway as they were good players.

 

[Sarwar89]

So over a 70 yr period we see a few examples and that for you justifies corruption and nepotism. And the the chances are that people like IK would have made it anyway as they were good players.

Well do you want me to give you few more examples ? I was nice enough to keep it a simple thread instead of bringing names of former greats who actually come via recommendation system.

1) Ramiz Hasan Raja brother of Late Wasim Raja.
2) Wahab Riaz. Aitchisonian, with strong influence of family wealth (for entry into FC System).
3) Ijaz Ahmed ( relative of Salim Malik).
4) Umar Akmal ( Brother of Kamran Akmal)

most importantly Mushtaq Muhammad who did his debut at 15 years of age and turned out to be one of the most innovative captains of pakistan in 1970's and transformed legend Imran Khan.

Mushtaq Muhammad at 15 played for pakistan in a test match in 1959. After all he was brother Mr Hanif Muhammad. I can go more deep. But lets stop here.

Stuart Broad himself confessed it was his Dad Chris Broad who brought him into Cricket via his reference at county level.

Shain Marsh and Mitchell Marsh are sons of Geoff Marsh.
Legend Chris Cairns was son of Lance Carins.
Chris Cairns himself mentioned in one interview if his Dad did not help him in first class he would have never played cricket. He was the reason NZL won their only ICC Trophy till this date.

Rohan Gavaskar.
list goees on.

 

[Sarwar89]

So over a 70 yr period we see a few examples and that for you justifies corruption and nepotism. And the the chances are that people like IK would have made it anyway as they were good players.

And just one more thing mate.
Who was man of the match in 2015 Cricket World Cup final ?

It was James Faulkner.

His Dad Peter Faulkner was regular First class cricketer in 1980's who ended up playing several Rebel tours in South Africa in 1980's and he was a friend of Kim Hughes.

Shaun Pollock one of the greatest bowlers of modern era is a nephew of legendary Graheme Pollock.

 

[BreadPakoda]

I will give a concrete example - look at Fawad Alam.

He has proved his worth by becoming a F/C legend, but someone with his hockey technique would not pass a single trial anywhere in Pakistan purely on merit.

If Fawad Alam was not the son of Tariq Alam, a F/C veteran with a career spanning two decades, he would have never made it as a professional cricketer in Pakistan.

The point that I am trying to make is that nepotism is not always bad or always wrong. However, it is very often a necessity because that is how life works. No system can work on 100% merit. It is idealistic but not practical.

Just because there is corruption doesn't mean you have to accept it as a way of life. If a selection is based on reasons outside merit, then it needs to be called out and punitive action must be taken against people involved.

 

[MenInG]

Just because there is corruption doesn't mean you have to accept it as a way of life. If a selection is based on reasons outside merit, then it needs to be called out and punitive action must be taken against people involved.

Then people complain about how uneducated cricketers get into the system - obviously through some connections!

A merit driven system is the ONLY answer to not just cricket but Pakistan's problems

 

[lonex]

And just one more thing mate.
Who was man of the match in 2015 Cricket World Cup final ?

It was James Faulkner.

His Dad Peter Faulkner was regular First class cricketer in 1980's who ended up playing several Rebel tours in South Africa in 1980's and he was a friend of Kim Hughes.

Shaun Pollock one of the greatest bowlers of modern era is a nephew of legendary Graheme Pollock.

Why only talk about crickters who were a successful.. how about Awas Zia son of Gen Tauqeer Zia ? What do you think of Imran Farhat ? Why dont you think about crickters which actually deserved and might have done well over the years.. Classical example is Imran Tahir who made it SA, lots of deserving players like him rotted in this system because nepotism never allowed them to represent Pakistan.

Another major problem with nepotism in Pakistan compared to other countries is we persist with these players untill there is too much pressure. Even if they are somehow finally discarded from national team they end up captaining domestic teams, and the cycle continues...

 

[jazbati]

Why only talk about crickters who were a successful.. how about Awas Zia son of Gen Tauqeer Zia ? What do you think of Imran Farhat ? Why dont you think about crickters which actually deserved and might have done well over the years.. Classical example is Imran Tahir who made it SA, lots of deserving players like him rotted in this system because nepotism never allowed them to represent Pakistan.

Another major problem with nepotism in Pakistan compared to other countries is we persist with these players untill there is too much pressure. Even if they are somehow finally discarded from national team they end up captaining domestic teams, and the cycle continues...

you mean Junaid Zia

 

[Bewal Express]

And just one more thing mate.
Who was man of the match in 2015 Cricket World Cup final ?

It was James Faulkner.

His Dad Peter Faulkner was regular First class cricketer in 1980's who ended up playing several Rebel tours in South Africa in 1980's and he was a friend of Kim Hughes.

Shaun Pollock one of the greatest bowlers of modern era is a nephew of legendary Graheme Pollock.

So are you saying that its justified?

 

[lonex]

you mean Junaid Zia

Yeah, sorry I mixed up the names..