South Africa votes to seize land from white farmers without compensation

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Farmers? These were British and Dutch warlords who stole land from the African population and drove them into such poverty that still to this day, SA has some of the world's largest slums, populated almost entirely by black families. They cant work the land? Its because for 200 years they havent had any land to work. All the while, in a country steeped with poverty, almost the entire white population is filthy rich, many of them richer than the majority living in more developed western nations. They live in a world cut off entirely from the real SA, money which they have accrued through stolen land.

Now, to take wholesale land from the white population without proper infrastructure would be a huge mistake but comments made in parliament show that there seems to be some maturity. First the constitution must be amended, the current policy will not be instantly scrapped and they are talking about investing in black south africans learning how to use the land effectively.

The biggest test however, will be if the land is actually distributed among the population and goes into the hands of the corrupt, black politicians, as was the case in Zimbabwe.

Pardon my ignorance, but were the Africans farming the land before the British and the Dutch came? When we were taught history we didn't really cover Africa, so no idea what their civilisation was like before the settlers arrived from Europe.

 

[Ozymandiasza]

None of this changes the fact the black native population was disenfranchised and systematically cut off from development for decades. By the very same "Afrikaners". And to correct that sort of systemic deprivation requires systemic intervention to level the playing field.

Of course, the road to hell can and often is paved with good intentions. And the points raised about the political parties being bad actors are well taken. But in spite of all of that, the bottomline remains that South Africa should be doing a bunch of things, and investing a ton of resources in the human development of its majority population. And the "Afrikaners" shouldn't whine about it. Not when they are sitting on the fruits of generations of benefiting from apartheid. Directly and indirectly. Its irrelevant whether some are 'filthy rich' or not.

I'm not well-informed enough on the details of the South African policy scene, and can't opine on the methodology - but its an incontrovertible fact that economic policies advantaging native black citizens ahead of "Afrikaners" for some period of time are not only necessary, but just.

And not all of those who support systemic changes are "racists". That sort of baseless victim mentality is not only baselessly inaccurate, its a pathway to actual prejudice.

South Africa does not have a policy problem, we have an implementation problem. There are numerous policies aimed at social justice but are so poorly implemented that they are of little to no consequence. Sacrificing freedom after freedom for more useless (implementation wise) policies is illogical. We are citizens of this country and have a right to protests the seizure of our property.

I'm sure you're aware but a liberal democracy is dependent on the equal application of laws, a legislature where all citizens have representation, a 'free market' and private property. Seizing private property of 'white' citizens is illegal in many ways.

 

[OoparCut]

South Africa does not have a policy problem, we have an implementation problem. There are numerous policies aimed at social justice but are so poorly implemented that they are of little to no consequence. Sacrificing freedom after freedom for more useless (implementation wise) policies is illogical. We are citizens of this country and have a right to protests the seizure of our property.

I'm sure you're aware but a liberal democracy is dependent on the equal application of laws, a legislature where all citizens have representation, a 'free market' and private property. Seizing private property of 'white' citizens is illegal in many ways.

You make a lot of good points. But I would disagree with you that SA doesn't have a policy problem.

I empathize with the difficulties faced by Saffers of all racial backgrounds, especially in a messy populist democracy with crappy parties and politicians. As someone of Indian origin, I fully understand this problem!

 

[Ozymandiasza]

Pardon my ignorance, but were the Africans farming the land before the British and the Dutch came? When we were taught history we didn't really cover Africa, so no idea what their civilisation was like before the settlers arrived from Europe.

They have no written history, only oral. I'd recommend reading this, if you're really interested in the subject.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

They have no written history, only oral. I'd recommend reading this, if you're really interested in the subject.

I'm not, I would just like an idea of what South Africa was like before the European settlers arrived given the impression that the land was stolen from them. Reading that, it appears that the Europeans arrived at a time when the land appeared uninhabited due to one tribe basically clearing it out of rivals. So then it was a simple job of defeating the ruling tribe and the Voortrekkers had South Africa to themselves.

 

[Ozymandiasza]

I'm not, I would just like an idea of what South Africa was like before the European settlers arrived given the impression that the land was stolen from them. Reading that, it appears that the Europeans arrived at a time when the land appeared uninhabited due to one tribe basically clearing it out of rivals. So then it was a simple job of defeating the ruling tribe and the Voortrekkers had South Africa to themselves.

Pretty much. There were large uninhabited areas. Some land was acquired through purchase or treaty, other was outright seized through force. You are correct though, saying it was all stolen is an oversimplification and frankly fallacious.

There was another event of importance, after the arrival of Europeans, called Mfecane (forced dispersal), which was "widespread chaos and warfare among indigenous ethnic communities in southern Africa during the period between 1815 and about 1840". This forced some tribes into 'white areas' or advancing frontiersmen (map link).

The history of the South Africa is extremely complicated.

 

[bujhee kom]

As a Bengali we feel for the opressed. ANC is right to sort the settlers out.

 

[LongHorn]

I had been reading up on SA recently, and some racial stuff really intrigued me, the image today (and probably rightly so) is that the white minority has to live in fear and their main crime is to be more prosperous on average.

However digging, the history, and I'm talking about before official apartheid, a number of disturbing stuff comes in front...

Some examples:

1) When Black miners were allowed to do skilled jobs some time in the 20s (this was after they were banned for many years from doing so), white miners rioted killing people.

2) When there were anti-Indian riots in Durban in 1949, whites vocally supported the Africans in their killings and rapes, instead of being neutral

 

[Gilly]

Its very short sighted and will lead to more problems that will hurt. Its not just that whites will lose their properties but the infrastructure will also deteriorate including water, electricity, roads, hospitals ect. The productivity of the white farmers is what keeps all these services going, things are going to get worse for everybody in SA. I dont mind working to improve the conditions for all SA's but when it comes down to making the whites poor to appease the PC crowd everyone is going to suffer.

 

[Robert]

Pardon my ignorance, but were the Africans farming the land before the British and the Dutch came? When we were taught history we didn't really cover Africa, so no idea what their civilisation was like before the settlers arrived from Europe.

The Zulus were as imperialist as the British at one time.

 

[Napa]

South African white farmers do possess a disproportionate amount of land. However seizing the land by passing a law will be counterproductive.

A better and more orderly method would have been what was applied in England to reduce inequality, by putting heavy taxes on land.

As such SA is on the decline. The latest President is one who has become a billionaire using his political connections, yet claims he will reduce inequality and corruption!

Crime in SA is off the charts. It is only a matter of time before it ends up like Zimbabwe. Is there any reason why it shouldn't?

 

[barah_admi]

Pardon my ignorance, but were the Africans farming the land before the British and the Dutch came? When we were taught history we didn't really cover Africa, so no idea what their civilisation was like before the settlers arrived from Europe.

Well of course they farmed. As most societies then and today, how else would they have lived? Food didn't just drop down from the heavens lol

 

[barah_admi]

Yes, the word Boer(Link) actually means farmer.

As for the rest of your post, emotional fiction. I'm white and noone I know is "filthy rich". The ruling party had almost 25 years to attend to social problems but instead lined their pockets with taxpayer money.

As for the stolen land argument, are you refering to the 1913 act or just in general? Because I'm sorry to break your narative but these "stolen" land claims were processed and almost complete:

According to the department's annual performance plan for 2016/17, by November 31, 2015:
- 78 483 claims had been settled, of which 59 758 were finalised;
- This involved the awarding of 3 290 685 hectares of land to claimants, at a cost of R19.3bn;
- 1 444 million hectares had already been transferred to beneficiaries, and;
- 7 584 land claims lodged by December 31, 1998, were still awaiting finalisation.

Stolen lands meaning when the European invaders arrived, who most white South Africans are direct descendants of, they forcefully took lands from the native population. It was known as colonisation. Read history, it is something that existed before 2016/17.

 

[Ozymandiasza]

Stolen lands meaning when the European invaders arrived, who most white South Africans are direct descendants of, they forcefully took lands from the native population. It was known as colonisation. Read history, it is something that existed before 2016/17.

Huh? I see you did not comprehend what I've posted.