South Africa vs Pakistan - Different mindsets

[Amjid Javed]

Before the series most people expected South Africa to have to much firepower for pakistan and would win the test series. The only wish a lot of pakistan fans would have been is players show some heart, some skill and make the series atleast competative.

Listening to pollock and KP on there thoughts during series there was massive dissapointment the series wasnt even remotely competative and they were right.

Lets look at SA player mindsets.

Amla - not in good form and some say on decline, did he go out and just flash his bat around hoping he would regain form? No he dug in during series and made important runs and showed heart, guts and desire to get his form back.

Faf - makes a pair in 1st test, wonders if he can still make a contribution. Come the 2nd test did he smile when he got off mark thinking he had done a job. There was a period in 2nd test runs came quick, did he get carried away and throw it away? Did he shy away from battling it through a tough period after and throw it away? No he made a vital 100, not a nice 40/50.

De kock - again out of form, but in parts during series. 1st test and 3rd he showed focus to score vital runs when needed.

Application, heart and skill when required.

Now comes the selfish, gutless, pathetic side of it ftom pakistan.

Azhar Ali gets out 4 times in same fashion. Once or maybe twice i can understand. You dont hook or pull well and your peppered with short ball. Where was the heart on wearing a few on the body and showing some heart. Happy to dead bat and bore the hell out of everyone in UAE but no stomach for the fight.

Then we get the odd flash of decent batting for 20 overs in each test from team. Shsn, sarfraz, asad, babar all playing shots. All of a sudden SA get a break of a session and bowl differently did we get our batsmen showing grit now runs were hard to come by? No we got players playing as though it was a T20 game. Did they look at Amla, Faf and De kock and think i need to stick around here as we need to stleast get on par with SA. Pathetic, gutless and selfish cricket.

You have sarfraz who gets a pair and sees getting of the mark in 2nd test as an acheivement, then slashing at everything until your luck runs out. His dismissal in 3rd test 2nd inns summed it up, being fearful of the short ball to point where he was practically hiding behind stumps when he was clean bowled. Again wheres the bravery?

Then we get Asad king of soft runs. Played two significant inns according to our coach, when 1st inns runs were needed in series he was petting his ducks in dressing room, but then lets go out and throw the bat in 2nd inns as i cant lose my place. Against selfish and gutless batting. Am sure Asads mentor muhammed yousufs very proud as he was king of soft runs and selfishness in 1st hslf of his career.

No one expect miracles in series, but the gutless display of showing no heart and playing a few nice t20 knocks fooled no one.

The culture was breeded by a captain backing his failed seniors, not taking responsability himself either.

You have a coach who has excuses like "young batting group" & "best batsmen in changing room" - no matter how mediocre you are will back you.

No accountability, no pride in playing for the team, no pushing urself to be better players.

Then mr revolutionary inzi, no point picking back up players to push "complacent players" in team as its not allowed to upset senior players, as seniority is everything in pakistani cricketing culture.

SA Through out series showed heart to push each other whether it was with bat or ball.

I knew we would lose series 3-0 due to lack of skill, but lack of heart and willingness to tough it out was not acceptable.

We are an average test side, but you can cause upset or compete if you show positive mindset and fight it out.

2 years, same rubbish results, same mistakes. Clearly homework wasnt dine.

Gutless mindset running ripe through team at all levels - selection, captaincy and coaching.

Everyone sugar coating comments to save there own jobs. Theres the difference in attitude.

No accountability in pakistani cricket, every gutless coward for themself attitude.

 

[Ab Fan]

Also, Markram as well. Played a couple of aggressive knocks, showing solid intent.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Our batsmen don't play for the team , they play for their own places.

If Azhar is selected again after this horror show where he got out exactly the same manner then I think we the fans deserve a better team to follow.

 

[Plumb]

When Makhayan Ntini said that pak batsmen play for themselves and care about their score to cement their place, what else left their to discuss the only people not able to see that are either blind or don't want to accept the reality.

 

[The Viper]

Azhar was weird. He remained in his shell even though he has been dismissed cheaply before in tough conditions. Why not try and up the scoring rate?

 

[Buffet]

Except Shan, no Pakistan batsman had confidence in his defense.

 

[Haroon786]

Before the series most people expected South Africa to have to much firepower for pakistan and would win the test series. The only wish a lot of pakistan fans would have been is players show some heart, some skill and make the series atleast competative.

Listening to pollock and KP on there thoughts during series there was massive dissapointment the series wasnt even remotely competative and they were right.

Lets look at SA player mindsets.

Amla - not in good form and some say on decline, did he go out and just flash his bat around hoping he would regain form? No he dug in during series and made important runs and showed heart, guts and desire to get his form back.

Faf - makes a pair in 1st test, wonders if he can still make a contribution. Come the 2nd test did he smile when he got off mark thinking he had done a job. There was a period in 2nd test runs came quick, did he get carried away and throw it away? Did he shy away from battling it through a tough period after and throw it away? No he made a vital 100, not a nice 40/50.

De kock - again out of form, but in parts during series. 1st test and 3rd he showed focus to score vital runs when needed.

Application, heart and skill when required.

Now comes the selfish, gutless, pathetic side of it ftom pakistan.

Azhar Ali gets out 4 times in same fashion. Once or maybe twice i can understand. You dont hook or pull well and your peppered with short ball. Where was the heart on wearing a few on the body and showing some heart. Happy to dead bat and bore the hell out of everyone in UAE but no stomach for the fight.

Then we get the odd flash of decent batting for 20 overs in each test from team. Shsn, sarfraz, asad, babar all playing shots. All of a sudden SA get a break of a session and bowl differently did we get our batsmen showing grit now runs were hard to come by? No we got players playing as though it was a T20 game. Did they look at Amla, Faf and De kock and think i need to stick around here as we need to stleast get on par with SA. Pathetic, gutless and selfish cricket.

You have sarfraz who gets a pair and sees getting of the mark in 2nd test as an acheivement, then slashing at everything until your luck runs out. His dismissal in 3rd test 2nd inns summed it up, being fearful of the short ball to point where he was practically hiding behind stumps when he was clean bowled. Again wheres the bravery?

Then we get Asad king of soft runs. Played two significant inns according to our coach, when 1st inns runs were needed in series he was petting his ducks in dressing room, but then lets go out and throw the bat in 2nd inns as i cant lose my place. Against selfish and gutless batting. Am sure Asads mentor muhammed yousufs very proud as he was king of soft runs and selfishness in 1st hslf of his career.

No one expect miracles in series, but the gutless display of showing no heart and playing a few nice t20 knocks fooled no one.

The culture was breeded by a captain backing his failed seniors, not taking responsability himself either.

You have a coach who has excuses like "young batting group" & "best batsmen in changing room" - no matter how mediocre you are will back you.

No accountability, no pride in playing for the team, no pushing urself to be better players.

Then mr revolutionary inzi, no point picking back up players to push "complacent players" in team as its not allowed to upset senior players, as seniority is everything in pakistani cricketing culture.

SA Through out series showed heart to push each other whether it was with bat or ball.

I knew we would lose series 3-0 due to lack of skill, but lack of heart and willingness to tough it out was not acceptable.

We are an average test side, but you can cause upset or compete if you show positive mindset and fight it out.

2 years, same rubbish results, same mistakes. Clearly homework wasnt dine.

Gutless mindset running ripe through team at all levels - selection, captaincy and coaching.

Everyone sugar coating comments to save there own jobs. Theres the difference in attitude.

No accountability in pakistani cricket, every gutless coward for themself attitude.

^POTW [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] [MENTION=59262]shaaik[/MENTION]

 

[Saj]

De Kock was a major difference.

He reminds me of Gilchrist.

Just as the bowlers are thinking of getting into the tailenders, this guy comes in and smashes it to all parts.

 

[Kroll]

Not really surprising, been going on for way too long.

 

[Abdullah]

I wouldn't totally agree with OP but i wouldn't totally disagree.
That Olivier bloke was quick and he was out there to rough us up.
I tried to wath every ball this series and our batters got some brute deliveries. Babar and Shan were the best players of the short ball and they had that guy getting it jumping of a length but them 2 still remain composed.
I remember one ball from rabada that landed on good length and hit Babar near collar bone and in this game Oliveir got one thing jump from a full length and hit him in the ribs.
That guy bowled hostile stuff and was right at us. I think our greats would have struggled with facing that on these wickets and I'm not sure they would have had the stomach for the right. It was hard out there

 

[jnaveen1980]

SA batting is okay in SA conditions. I mean just good enough to be better than the opposition. They are also in the rebuilding stage. Bowling offset whatever the inadequacies they have. But once you move away from their country they struggle these days especially in Asian conditions.

 

[Savak]

I am mixed on this, to be honest Pakistani batsmen did not have the defense to survive in these conditions, they had to attack and back their strengths, shot selection was a problem as well as game awareness. Oliveir was the difference between the two teams.

And why no mention of the bowling? To let the Proteas score 431 runs in the second test and 200 plus runs for the final 5 wickets was unacceptable, the fitness levels of our bowlers was extremely below par.

 

[Xoib]

I think bowlers should be held accountable not many teams come to South Africa and score runs vs their bowling application could have been better it’s the bowlers who kept on giving away atleast 50 -100 runs more every time they bowled

We lack a leader of the attack someone who you can back to take 20 wickets in a series @20 in UAE we have Shah but someone needs to do that job when we travel Amir is not that guy unfortunately Abbas is too slow and one dimensional to do that consistently on every pitch while Hassan with his lack of height will struggle to contain flow of runs on non uae tracks. We really have to hope Shaheen or some upcoming pacer can develop in to that pacer.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

I think bowlers should be held accountable not many teams come to South Africa and score runs vs their bowling application could have been better it’s the bowlers who kept on giving away atleast 50 -100 runs more every time they bowled

We lack a leader of the attack someone who you can back to take 20 wickets in a series @20 in UAE we have Shah but someone needs to do that job when we travel Amir is not that guy unfortunately Abbas is too slow and one dimensional to do that consistently on every pitch while Hassan with his lack of height will struggle to contain flow of runs on non uae tracks. We really have to hope Shaheen or some upcoming pacer can develop in to that pacer.

What use were Yasir's 20 wickets in UAE when we eventually lost 2 home series to Sri Lanka and New Zealand and yet won against Australia where he was terrible. Truth is no matter what the conditions if the batting keeps scoring 170 odd runs, we won't compete. All good teams make 250-300 on difficult pitches but our team doesn't make it on Batting friendly pitches. Once we have 2-3 Quality batsmen in our team who score consistently everywhere, we will start winning.

Also taking 20 wickets from one bowler is not the only way bowling is performing, look at India's performance in South Africa. They hunted in packs with each one performing same way Amir has done but who didn't have equally capable bowlers.

Wickets at average 20-25 by

Shami 15/60
Bumrah 14/60
Bhuveswhar 10/60
Ishant 8/60

Amir 12/45 at 23.5
Shaheen 9/45 at 26.67

And no other bowler performed at the same level.

 

[Abid Z]

Before the series most people expected South Africa to have to much firepower for pakistan and would win the test series. The only wish a lot of pakistan fans would have been is players show some heart, some skill and make the series atleast competative.

Listening to pollock and KP on there thoughts during series there was massive dissapointment the series wasnt even remotely competative and they were right.

Lets look at SA player mindsets.

Amla - not in good form and some say on decline, did he go out and just flash his bat around hoping he would regain form? No he dug in during series and made important runs and showed heart, guts and desire to get his form back.

Faf - makes a pair in 1st test, wonders if he can still make a contribution. Come the 2nd test did he smile when he got off mark thinking he had done a job. There was a period in 2nd test runs came quick, did he get carried away and throw it away? Did he shy away from battling it through a tough period after and throw it away? No he made a vital 100, not a nice 40/50.

De kock - again out of form, but in parts during series. 1st test and 3rd he showed focus to score vital runs when needed.

Application, heart and skill when required.

Now comes the selfish, gutless, pathetic side of it ftom pakistan.

Azhar Ali gets out 4 times in same fashion. Once or maybe twice i can understand. You dont hook or pull well and your peppered with short ball. Where was the heart on wearing a few on the body and showing some heart. Happy to dead bat and bore the hell out of everyone in UAE but no stomach for the fight.

Then we get the odd flash of decent batting for 20 overs in each test from team. Shsn, sarfraz, asad, babar all playing shots. All of a sudden SA get a break of a session and bowl differently did we get our batsmen showing grit now runs were hard to come by? No we got players playing as though it was a T20 game. Did they look at Amla, Faf and De kock and think i need to stick around here as we need to stleast get on par with SA. Pathetic, gutless and selfish cricket.

You have sarfraz who gets a pair and sees getting of the mark in 2nd test as an acheivement, then slashing at everything until your luck runs out. His dismissal in 3rd test 2nd inns summed it up, being fearful of the short ball to point where he was practically hiding behind stumps when he was clean bowled. Again wheres the bravery?

Then we get Asad king of soft runs. Played two significant inns according to our coach, when 1st inns runs were needed in series he was petting his ducks in dressing room, but then lets go out and throw the bat in 2nd inns as i cant lose my place. Against selfish and gutless batting. Am sure Asads mentor muhammed yousufs very proud as he was king of soft runs and selfishness in 1st hslf of his career.

No one expect miracles in series, but the gutless display of showing no heart and playing a few nice t20 knocks fooled no one.

The culture was breeded by a captain backing his failed seniors, not taking responsability himself either.

You have a coach who has excuses like "young batting group" & "best batsmen in changing room" - no matter how mediocre you are will back you.

No accountability, no pride in playing for the team, no pushing urself to be better players.

Then mr revolutionary inzi, no point picking back up players to push "complacent players" in team as its not allowed to upset senior players, as seniority is everything in pakistani cricketing culture.

SA Through out series showed heart to push each other whether it was with bat or ball.

I knew we would lose series 3-0 due to lack of skill, but lack of heart and willingness to tough it out was not acceptable.

We are an average test side, but you can cause upset or compete if you show positive mindset and fight it out.

2 years, same rubbish results, same mistakes. Clearly homework wasnt dine.

Gutless mindset running ripe through team at all levels - selection, captaincy and coaching.

Everyone sugar coating comments to save there own jobs. Theres the difference in attitude.

No accountability in pakistani cricket, every gutless coward for themself attitude.

Have some perspective man it’s not the end of the world. Yes we have limited batters but they are also very inexperienced in these conditions. Asad and azhar of course should have done better but the ball was jumping off good lengths at 140k plus without any respite. For mentally fragile players living out of a suitcase for ten years it was bound to take its toll. The real issue is that azhar looks exactly as the player who made his debut in 2010, no real development.

I know the batting cost us the series but I’m more concerned about how much our bowling has deteriorated in these bowler friendly conditions. It’s almost criminal the way we’ve allowed their batsmen to get into form spraying it around all over the place at 130kph. That said I remember a series in 2002 in South Africa with waqar and co (Sami was on top of his game then) when we didn’t fare much better with better players.

Moral of the story is, come early prepare better and don’t assume T20 dashers can make it in tests whether you are bowlers or batters.

 

[Markhor]

We can all agree the combination of South Africa's pace attack and the conditions makes it difficult for any Asian team to win there.

However what's maddening is how we squandered the advantage in the 1st and 3rd Test. We had an opportunity to bat South Africa out of the game in Centurion despite screwing up in the 1st innings. At 100-1 the seniors Azhar, Shafiq and Sarfraz had a perfect platform, yet got out not from outstanding deliveries, but by throwing their wickets away. The OP is usually the first one to demand quicker scoring in Tests yet that situation required old fashioned grinding and patience.

We can criticise the blunt new ball bowling and Yasir's ineffectiveness outside Asia/WI which means the seamers are worn out from bowling longer spells. However when your batsmen keep giving you no margin for error then it's easy to become demoralised.

Ultimately we need to hold the senior players responsible. Azhar, Shafiq and Sarfraz are support acts at best but not good enough to take on the responsibility of leading a team. I'm sure management and pundits will excuse the seniors as every Pakistan team has struggled in South Africa. But they weren't held to account after the Sri Lanka defeat, the New Zealand ODI whitewash, the Asia Cup and the New Zealand Test defeat in UAE.

However the PSL is upon us so amnesia will set in like it has for the past three winters.

 

[Ahmed216]

you know things are bad when winning isnt important at all

 

[Amjid Javed]

People having a moan at our bowlers here, which in some cases is fair enough in a couple of inns they did bowl badly. However the main issue was did our bowlers have many runs to defend? No they didnt. You cant keep expecting bowlers to bail us out when we keep getting bowled out for 150, 170 etc.. Add to that we had Abbas who clearly wasnt match fit and Shaheen whose not use to bowling so much as well so at times the bowling was going to struggle.

Overall the senior players are ones who didnt turn up or lead from the front.

 

[hadi123]

Good thread. Our players are representing our country yet they don't seem to be bothered by embarrasing our nation.

 

[Bilal7]

South Africa have smashed everyone at home. This tour was not a disaster. The series defeat to New Zealand is a much bigger concern.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

South Africa have smashed everyone at home. This tour was not a disaster. The series defeat to New Zealand is a much bigger concern.

Almost everyone, England won the series last time they played and we smash England wherever we play, so we were expected to do better.

 

[Bilal7]

Almost everyone, England won the series last time they played and we smash England wherever we play, so we were expected to do better.

England, along with New Zealand, are the best test team in the world. Part of that is because they did so well in South Africa.

 

[Hasan123]

South Africa have smashed everyone at home. This tour was not a disaster. The series defeat to New Zealand is a much bigger concern.

So why did you predict we would win since South Africa smash everyone at home ?

 

[topspin]

So why did you predict we would win since South Africa smash everyone at home ?

Hahaha I remember how adamant he was that Pakistan would win 2 - 1!

 

[Hasan123]

Hahaha I remember how adamant he was that Pakistan would win 2 - 1!

Yes that's why I want to know why he predicted a 2-1 win.

Very odd thing to say when he was adamant we would win the series.

 

[topspin]

Yes that's why I want to know why he predicted a 2-1 win.

Very odd thing to say when he was adamant we would win the series.

Well if there was one salesman on PP I wouldn't trust I'm not exactly going to be spoilt for choice