"Sportsmanship of few Champions got tested and they failed badly" : Waqar Younis

[Majestic_Inzi]

The over that baffled me was when pandya and dhoni in crease and then Rashid was bowling, not one bowl did pandya try to hit for a boundary or six.

Now that was strange. 10-11 an over last 7 overs is gettable. They made rate go even higher.

 

[Mean&Green]

Happy to face Pakistan in the semis than England. India's record against Pak is 4-1 recently and we all know how Pakistan struggled against Afg few days back.

Lol you lot struggled even more against Afghanistan than us

 

[FreePalestine]

Of course not, I would not have accepted this effort. But this game was not even a semi, let alone a final. The point is that it also is in India's favor if they score 300+ as it will help them in the next game against England.

No need to slog blindly and chase an impossible RRR of 14+, rather get a decent score to be mentally at a better place the next time they meet England.

This game came down to the toss. If India won the toss it would have scored 330+ and England would be under pressure.

Now you can answer my earlier question. How many teams have won an ODI when the RRR was 14+ in the last 5 overs? What percentage of these have been victories?

I almost didn’t reply because these remarks are so obviously obfuscating.

1) In score comparisons, England and India were neck and neck by the 40th over.
2) Dhoni slowed down way before the final five overs. They were already taking singles seven overs from the finish. It made no sense
3) In response to your earlier comment about Bumrah bowling so economically and if India wanted to lose, he would’ve bowled more loose. And what about Shami’s five full tosses in a row and three overs costing about 40 odd runs?

Now go ahead and come up with more denials. Anyone with any real cricketing knowledge knows what happened. Either you are being blinded by your nationalism or don’t understand cricket. Thank you, good bye

 

[Usman]

While I understand that being ejected from the tournament (for all practical purposes) hurts, reading these Pakistani reactions one would think that Dhoni and Jhadav blew a run chase where they would have to score at 4.2 an over for the last 5 overs rather than the actual 14.2 an over.

How many teams have won an ODI (let alone a WC game) when the RRR was 14.2 for the last 5 overs?

This one surely takes a biscuit
As if England was throwing pies at Indians

How many teams have won an ODI when the RRR was 14+ in the last 5 overs? What percentage of teams in this situation have won?

You would be a snowflake if you thought this target was "well within their reach", oh wait...

Can't compare those games with today's game. Today India had to score at a S/R of 270 the last 5 overs to win the game. Dhoni thought it cannot be done and didn't try. Very different from can be done but let's not do it to sabotage another team.

I think you are all missing the point. Nobody is denying that the task ahead of Dhoni was steep and the odds were in England's favour. Neither is anyone denying that England bowled well.

What is odd and requires explanation, whether you like it or not, is this; Dhoni did not try to win - i.e. when India was in with a shot, albeit a slim one, Dhoni made a deliberate decision not to try to win. If Dhoni came out swinging, skied the ball and was caught somewhere in the outfield, I think everyone would have said no problem, one can only try their best.

The fact that Dhoni chose not to even try and hit boundaries when India desperately needed them raises serious questions. If you have any logical explanation for this, I'd love to hear it.

 

[Captain caveman]

Why Pakistanis are so much hurt ?

We don't like seeing india lose in the world cup, thats why we always let you guys beat us in the wc, lol!

 

[Napa]

I think you are all missing the point. Nobody is denying that the task ahead of Dhoni was steep and the odds were in England's favour. Neither is anyone denying that England bowled well.

What is odd and requires explanation, whether you like it or not, is this; Dhoni did not try to win - i.e. when India was in with a shot, albeit a slim one, Dhoni made a deliberate decision not to try to win. If Dhoni came out swinging, skied the ball and was caught somewhere in the outfield, I think everyone would have said no problem, one can only try their best.

<b>The fact that Dhoni chose not to even try and hit boundaries when India desperately needed them raises serious questions. If you have any logical explanation for this, I'd love to hear it.</b>

The downside of coming out swinging is that India would likely have ended up with a score around 280 instead of 306. There may be a psychological benefit of crossing 300.

Anyway, it is Dhoni's decision. No one can tell him that he needs to try for that 0.1% chance of a win that won't make much difference to India's knockout stage. If it was a knockout game and he did not try for the 0.1% chance, then as an Indian I would have been upset. This particular game just didn't have enough significance for India to go for the 0.1% chance of a win. Fine if Dhoni had tried, but okay if he didn't.

Ironically, this game was actually a knockout game for Pakistan (even though they were not playing) and not India, hence the strong reactions.

 

[Mamoon]

We have brutally embarrassed ourselves over the last 12 hours.

The fact that the the number one trend on Twitter in Pakistan at the moment is #fixed sums up our mentality and explains why we are in this miserable state as a cricket team and also as a nation.

We have a disease, and not only the fans but the ex-players and other prominent public personalities have been infected by this virus as well.

Instead of focusing on why our incompetent team left their fortune’s in the hands of India, we are complaining about why India didn’t help us qualify for the semifinals.

Our incompetent team forced our fans to swallow their pride and support India, all because they were not good enough to beat West Indies, India or Australia.

We can moan about the Sri Lanka washout as much as we want, but if our circus team had beaten either of these three teams, we would not be pinning our hopes in India beating England for our sake.

We prove over and over again that we are only good at running our mouths and cannot walk the the talk. I truly feel ashamed today.

 

[Sunzi]

We have brutally embarrassed ourselves over the last 12 hours.

The fact that the the number one trend on Twitter in Pakistan at the moment is #fixed sums up our mentality and explains why we are in this miserable state as a cricket team and also as a nation.

We have a disease, and not only the fans but the ex-players and other prominent public personalities have been infected by this virus as well.

Instead of focusing on why our incompetent team left their fortune’s in the hands of India, we are complaining about why India didn’t help us qualify for the semifinals.

Our incompetent team forced our fans to swallow their pride and support India, all because they were not good enough to beat West Indies, India or Australia.

We can moan about the Sri Lanka washout as much as we want, but if our circus team had beaten either of these three teams, we would not be pinning our hopes in India beating England for our sake.

We prove over and over again that we are only good at running our mouths and cannot walk the the talk. I truly feel ashamed today.

Yes.

I agree - usually read your posts as Pak-inflammatory but on this occassion I share the same opinion.

I couldn't bring myself to support India yesterday. We do it on our own steam or not at all.

 

[Greenstorm]

India did not lost against Zimbabwe or Afghanistan. They lost to England, the number 1 ODI side in the world. I cannot understand the reaction from our side. Dhoni has been playing like this since years now.

Had we prepared properly, we would not have found ourselves in this humiliating position in the first place where we had to beg India for a win. Waqar bhai has lost it as well.

 

[dani2k]

Yup...India might seem to have stooped to the same level Pakistan had displayed in the 2009 CT final league game, but it is also true that MS doesnt have the same hitting power as we have been crying out loud for more than two years now, so it does not come as an outright surprise atleast to Indian fans.

What was disappointing is the crawl in the first 10 overs (27 runs?) and the difference in runs (33 at 6rpo) that is more or less the difference in defeat. But we have the advantage of hindsight.

Purely from an Indian perspective, this also shows where they need to work tactically and personnel wise and though a loss, gives a few insights on how to approach such games in the next 15 days on such pitches. So not all is lost for us, though our neighbours are disappointed and we cannot fault them either (rather their teams that left their fate in others hands need to be the ones faulted)

 

[IamIndian]

Lol you lot struggled even more against Afghanistan than us

Whatever, Playing Pakistan is much easier than this England side in a knockout match of the world cup.

 

[hk031992]

We have brutally embarrassed ourselves over the last 12 hours.

The fact that the the number one trend on Twitter in Pakistan at the moment is #fixed sums up our mentality and explains why we are in this miserable state as a cricket team and also as a nation.

We have a disease, and not only the fans but the ex-players and other prominent public personalities have been infected by this virus as well.

Instead of focusing on why our incompetent team left their fortune’s in the hands of India, we are complaining about why India didn’t help us qualify for the semifinals.

Our incompetent team forced our fans to swallow their pride and support India, all because they were not good enough to beat West Indies, India or Australia.

We can moan about the Sri Lanka washout as much as we want, but if our circus team had beaten either of these three teams, we would not be pinning our hopes in India beating England for our sake.

We prove over and over again that we are only good at running our mouths and cannot walk the the talk. I truly feel ashamed today.

Although i often disagree with you, i can't help but agree with you here. There was no fix here. We can't leave it to others to win for us.

If we are not good enough to beat West Indies and barely beat Afghan, we do not deserve to go to the semi's. Yes, we can pull of wins against the big boys like England, we do not have the consistency to win the whole thing.

 

[the Great Khan]

totally agree with Waqar...class and integrity is always tested in strange ways and during trying times for one or the other..

 

[Mamoon]

Although i often disagree with you, i can't help but agree with you here. There was no fix here. We can't leave it to others to win for us.

If we are not good enough to beat West Indies and barely beat Afghan, we do not deserve to go to the semi's. Yes, we can pull of wins against the big boys like England, we do not have the consistency to win the whole thing.

We had the best possible preparation leading into the World Cup by playing a 5 match series vs England, and the WI match is how we responded.

 

[DHONI183]

I don't think that India lost the match deliberately. I just think that the law of average just caught up with them, and it does catch up in cricket except if you're Australia. Also, on a flat track like the one yesterday, England will just brush aside any team on every day of the week, except maybe an almost equally explosive Australian batting line-up. You can replay yesterday's match another nine times on the same or a similar pitch, England will still win at least eight times more. Their impatient batting is just tailor-made for such a track. Where England have been mightily fortunate in this tournament is that they finally have a very potent bowling attack. Containing the opposition and drying up the runs is the kind of bowling that suits this bowling attack.

Still though, the target was chaseable. People have questioned India's tactics, especially being 27/1 in the first 10 overs. I don´t think that India lost the match there. They just batted according to their capacity. Kohli and Rohit are no Roy, Maxwell, Buttler etc. So this was expected. But where India lost the game was that as soon as a batsman of theirs looked to be taking the match away, he got out: first Kohli, then Rohit and then finally Pandya´s dismissal brought down the curtains on the run-chase.

The turning point in my opinion were the two overs bowled by Adil Rashid and then Archer towards the end, off which hardly 10 runs were made I think. Suddenly from then on India left with over 90 required off eight overs. Please remind me the last time as many runs were chased down in as many overs in a world cup match - not a bilateral series match.

What won England the game yesterday was brilliant bowling the last 10 overs, and some very smart field placements. So the bowlers bowled to their field. Dhoni and Jadhav have been on the receiving end of heavy criticism, and fully justifiably so, but what their batting did was just that it made sure that India got nowhere close to the target - nowhere. I still don´t think that the required run-rate was manageable for them. So India would still have lost, but maybe by 10 to 15 runs. They should definitely have showed more intent as you can´t go for a draw in ODI cricket, but remember that even Pandya struggled a lot once the fifth fielder went on the boundary for the last Powerplay. He got off to a flier but then his innings lost its pace from then on.

Both Dhoni and Jadhav just did what they´re capable of; Jadhav anyway and MS at this stage of his career. Absolutely no timing, no power and zero intent. But again, England bowled really well. They mixed up the pace nicely.

 

[Sycamore]

Yup...India might seem to have stooped to the same level Pakistan had displayed in the 2009 CT final league game, but it is also true that MS doesnt have the same hitting power as we have been crying out loud for more than two years now, so it does not come as an outright surprise atleast to Indian fans.

What was disappointing is the crawl in the first 10 overs (27 runs?) and the difference in runs (33 at 6rpo) that is more or less the difference in defeat. But we have the advantage of hindsight.

Purely from an Indian perspective, this also shows where they need to work tactically and personnel wise and though a loss, gives a few insights on how to approach such games in the next 15 days on such pitches. So not all is lost for us, though our neighbours are disappointed and we cannot fault them either (rather their teams that left their fate in others hands need to be the ones faulted)

What utter rubbish. Pakistan scored 200 in the first innings, and Australia in reply were 150-3 . They needed 50 runs with 7 wickets in hand. Pakistan came back strongly and Australia needed only 10 from last 2 overs and Pakistan managed to take it to the last ball and Australia won by 2 wickets.

So either you have no knowledge of what you are talking about or you making up utter garbage based on the fact you don't like Pakistani team. Either ways don't make up fictional stuff and comment on them.

 

[Mamoon]

totally agree with Waqar...class and integrity is always tested in strange ways and during trying times for one or the other..

We lack class and integrity in abundance.

We lack class because in spite of having the best possible preparation (among all teams) for the World Cup, we got shot for 100 against West Indies in the opening game, who chased the total in 13.4 overs.

We lack integrity because our leading wicket-taker is a convicted fixer.

Pakistani fans have no right to question the class and integrity of others.

 

[Markhor]

Waqar was it sportsmanship when you hurled beamers at Andrew Symonds or when your era was doing ball tampering ?

This crying is of no use. Had we not collapsed in a heap vs WI and bowled better with the new ball vs Australia on a damp pitch we wouldn't need to rely on other results.

 

[Technics 1210]

Dhoni was slow against Afghanist - Tendulkar ****ed off
Dhoni was slow against Windies until last over - Laxman ****ed off
Dhoni was slow against England until last over - Everyone is ****ed off

This is just Dhoni. Not India trying to eliminate Pakistan if that is what he means. This guy should have retired like 4 years back. Still clinging on to his position like a leech.a

What about the 3 maidens in the first 6 overs, resulting in India's lowest PP1 score this WC? 30/1? Did that not look suspect to you? Even the commentators were bemused at that stage.

 

[KP From India]

By that rule, After looking Afg performance and at least 3 matches they should have won, they should not be given chances in ODIs. We havent seen any intent from them.

 

[Saj]

Credit to Waqar for speaking out on this and for saying what he thinks.

Too many other former Pakistani players in the media will sit quietly on the fence for the fear of upsetting their masters.

 

[cricketfanfirst]

What about the 3 maidens in the first 6 overs, resulting in India's lowest PP1 score this WC? 30/1? Did that not look suspect to you? Even the commentators were bemused at that stage.

No, you need to follow Indian cricket more. They build slowly and accelerate later on. England should thank their lucky stars, the way Virat and Rohit were coming into the zone after they settled well, a tonking was there for the bowlers. Did you watch how beautifully both Virat and Rohit after his fifty were stroking the ball?

The only sad part was the lack of intent at the end when Dhoni/Jadhav were playing.

Many Pak fans are coming up with some weird stuff, just because yesterday's loss was of great importance to you. If India had played such a match against any other 'x' team, not many would not have bothered much to create thread on thread for the same matter.

 

[Abid Z]

I honestly can’t see what all this hoopla is about. Waqar has simply questioned the Indian teams performance not implied any wrong doing. Let’s be clear India are as good as in the semis. They wanted to win but there is no need for them to break their backs and expose any tactics. The match was played on a fast Edgbaston pitch not a used one so Indian tactics of taking wickets in the middle overs was exposed and now they have to think of alternatives. Lots of teams have misread pitches and it makes for an interesting World Cup.

Bumrah and shami bowled their hearts out, jadeja catch..was awesome Kohli and Rohit made big scores but probably lost the game in the process by batting their normal steady way. England played like a team with everything to lose and India has nothing to lose plain and simple.
Let’s see what the next match brings.

 

[Sir Alex]

Had Pakistan played well enough, none of this would have ensued. They have only themselves to blame for putting their fates in others hands.

 

[ak619]

Again, a lot of Indians keep bringing up the same point.

That is not what all of us have a problem with. It is INTENT which is what we have an issue with. For all we know India could have got all out for 290 trying to make the 14 runs an over in the last 5 but no one would question their desire and intent to win.

Sourav Ganguly and Nasser Hussain also questioned what was going on. Surely, Nasser Hussain wasn't rooting for India and he even noticed the non-effort.

Let me ask you this, if this game was the WC final and India played out the remaining over like they did today, would you accept that effort? I know for a fact no Indian would because they didn't seem like they were trying to win.

Except that this was not a KO match. So why are you even bringing up this comparison. If India does something like this in a KO, the we can talk.

Secondly, you're right. India could have been all out for 285. Which would have hurt our NRR. If the batsmen decided that they are not good enough to hit sixes and thus wants to play full 50 overs to reduce the margin of defeat to save the NRR, then that's their decision.

The team will do what's in their own best interest. If as a result of that, Pakistan gets knocked out (which is still not the case, btw) then that's too bad.

But thats on Pakistan. Not India. The team will play as it sees fit. Not according to how some other team wants them to play.

 

[Technics 1210]

No, you need to follow Indian cricket more. They build slowly and accelerate later on. England should thank their lucky stars, the way Virat and Rohit were coming into the zone after they settled well, a tonking was there for the bowlers. Did you watch how beautifully both Virat and Rohit after his fifty were stroking the ball?

The only sad part was the lack of intent at the end when Dhoni/Jadhav were playing.

Many Pak fans are coming up with some weird stuff, just because yesterday's loss was of great importance to you. If India had played such a match against any other 'x' team, not many would not have bothered much to create thread on thread for the same matter.

No, it is not just Pak fans, were YOU listening to the commentary yesterday?

Had it been just Pak fans, then you may have had a point, but when you have ex-players and commentators, who are NOT affiliated with Pakistan in anyway, commentating on the lack of intent, it says everything, meaning the opinions of Pak fans is not baseless but shared by many outside the Pakistan cricketing circle.

 

[Bilal7]

There's a world of difference between that and flat out accusing India of losing intentionally (which is what Waqar did).

Yes, because commentators are free to say what they please on air. India were certaintly trying to win for 90% of the match. During the last 10% though, it was obvious that they just gave up trying. If someone believes that Dhoni and Jadhav were still trying to chase down the target when all they were doing is take singles in the 48th and 49th over, I can acquaint them with a Nigerian prince who has the offer of a lifetime...

 

[cricketfanfirst]

No, it is not just Pak fans, were YOU listening to the commentary yesterday?

Had it been just Pak fans, then you may have had a point, but when you have ex-players and commentators, who are NOT affiliated with Pakistan in anyway, commentating on the lack of intent, it says everything, meaning the opinions of Pak fans is not baseless but shared by many outside the Pakistan cricketing circle.

My friend, No I don't need to listen to commentators to understand the match situation because I saw the match live and I have followed cricket for long to come to my independent analysis. Just check all my threads, in all of them I said there was lack of intent from Dhoni and Jadhav which was pathetic really. Winning and losing is part of the game, not trying is what irked me, that's all. But, the way that issue has been highlighted mostly by Pak fans is hilarious

I'm merely stating the fact that, if yesterday's match was not really important to Pak's cause of advancing to semi-finals, will many would have bothered this much to create thread after thread, just an honest question to you. Forget about other stuff, like sportsmanship and all, it would have passed under the radar. It is understandable to be angry for Pak fans that yesterday's match dented their chances massively, I would be in same the position, if India was in such a situation.

Waqar's sportsmanship itself was questionable at times, so not exactly the right person to lecture on such aspects.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

We stopped trying after pandya got out. Msd should be ashamed of what he did yesterday in last 7 overs.

 

[Bilal7]

Except that this was not a KO match. So why are you even bringing up this comparison. If India does something like this in a KO, the we can talk.

Secondly, you're right. India could have been all out for 285. Which would have hurt our NRR. If the batsmen decided that they are not good enough to hit sixes and thus wants to play full 50 overs to reduce the margin of defeat to save the NRR, then that's their decision.

The team will do what's in their own best interest. If as a result of that, Pakistan gets knocked out (which is still not the case, btw) then that's too bad.

But thats on Pakistan. Not India. The team will play as it sees fit. Not according to how some other team wants them to play.

You are arguing for the sake of it. No team has ever lost their last five wickets in the last two overs. Who are you lying to? India definitely did what was best for them: trying their best to ensure they wouldn't play Pakistan in this world cup again. They were clearly aware of what would happen if they won, Kohli admitted as much at the toss and we all know there was a vocal minority saying that India should forfeit their matches against Pakistan at this world cup because blah, blah, blah.

 

[Bilal7]

How can anyone say that Dhoni and Jadhav had the intent to win the match? They only started trying to hit boundaries in the last over and got more than ten runs in that over, as a result. It was not a lack of ability as they clearly displayed right after defeat was all but confirmed but a lack of intent.

 

[giri26]

The win against India gave hosts England a chance in the tournament and kicked Pakistan out of the top four at the points table. Pakistan’s former captain-cum-cricket commentator Ramiz Raja believes that Pakistan should focus on their own game rather than concentrating on the performance of other sides.

“Pakistan cricket team should take its destiny in own hand, as its progress cannot depend upon the win and loss of other sides. So Pakistan would need to come out victorious in the must win match against Bangladesh, and then there future at the tournament would depend on the net run rate,” said Raja.

England beat India by 31 runs at Edgbaston, Birmigham, after it piled up a mammoth target of 337 runs, which it achieved on the back of Jonny Bairstow century.

Raja praised England cricket team for ending the unbeaten streak of India in the tournament. “India would feel this defeat, as the team was on a run but a loss kills the rhythm and shakes the confidence a bit as well.”

Meanwhile, Pakistan would face Bangladesh in its upcoming match scheduled to be held at Lords on July 5, Friday.

https://www.brecorder.com/2019/07/0...estiny-in-own-hands-to-progress-in-world-cup/

 

[Ucdkee]

What makes you think that 2009 match was fixed? That match went to the last ball?!! I am not here to blame India for losing deliberately as they don't owe anything to Pakistan obviously, but comparing this match to 2009 CT match is utter nonsense.

 

[PakWarrior]

Well said Waqar. Completely agree with him.

Notice how Indian posters are criticizing Waqar.

Waqar told it how it is and he speaks for many of us.

India had NO intention of winning the game.

 

[ak619]

You are arguing for the sake of it. You pretty much admitted the lack of intent from Match-Fixing Mahi when you said that the intent would be completely different in a KO game. No team has ever lost their last five wickets in the last two overs. Who are you lying to? India definitely did what was best for them: trying their best to ensure they wouldn't play Pakistan in this world cup again. They were clearly aware of what would happen if they won, Kohli admitted as much at the toss and we all know there was a vocal minority saying that India should forfeit their matches against Pakistan at this world cup because blah, blah, blah.

I have explained what I think was the case. Chasing 338 if the top order scores 28 runs off the first 10 overs, then they can't judge the lower order for feeling like that scoring 104 off the last 10 overs is too big an ask. And it's not even like any of the top order players hung around till the 40th over. By the time the 41st over started, it was all left to Pandya, Dhoni and Kedar to score at a SR of 175+ when guys like Rohit and Kohli could not even strike at 100 even after taking all the time in the world to settle down at the crease.



But fine, let's assume I am wrong and you are right.

Even if what you say is true - that losing the match was a strategy by India, so what?

Whether India wins a match or loses is between them and the Indian fans.

If India's wins/losses affect Pakistan then too bad. But the Indian team certainly doesn't owe anyone but their own country's fans an answer.

From next WC, let's just hope that PCT is good enough to qualify with its own ability. Otherwise these tears will never end.

 

[AAli98]

Lesson to pak fans from the last few days.. enemy is a enemy no matter what, do not expect any kind of mercy.

Apart from Lanka/windies every other board wants to rip pcb apart!!

 

[Majestic_Inzi]

one side 59m boundary the other 82m... )

Next bowl underarms to eng team...

 

[akkers]

Pakistan cant blame anyone but themselves; they should have booked their own spot rather than looking for charity.
As for India V Eng match - that is just unposrting and totally against ethos of sport. Every sportsperson and every sports team is obliged at perform at its best and aim to win at all times. Thats what they get paid for and paying spectators expect that 100% of the time. Anything other than that is cheating, corruption and short-changing the spectators.
If am not wrong, there have been incidents like this in football where a team just played the ball in their own half for last 15mins with the spectators booing them all the way.
And if anyone tells me that team India was trying to win the match then they are brutally dishonest.
As paying spectators we should not allow these things to happen and sportspersons getting away, irrespective who they are and who we support.

 

[arunpsm]

Take it easy friends. To each his own. As Indians we dont see any conspiracy, except the inability & failure of msd, jadhav & klrahul. If the equation was about 12 run rate, MSD wud have tried. 14+ runrate that too for 5 overs is just beyond him at this age.

 

[the Great Khan]

We lack class and integrity in abundance.

We lack class because in spite of having the best possible preparation (among all teams) for the World Cup, we got shot for 100 against West Indies in the opening game, who chased the total in 13.4 overs.

We lack integrity because our leading wicket-taker is a convicted fixer.

Pakistani fans have no right to question the class and integrity of others.

a convicted fixer who went to jail. Then came back and learnt his lesson. lets not try and turn this around on our previous misdemeanors in your innate desire to appease our neighbours. Whataboutery wont save your team from being accused of being classless.. They were and lack integrity. Dhoni's behaviour was despicable and not something that should be seen on the sports field..

 

[Afzal_K]

Was India in NRR type situtation?

 

[FreePalestine]

The downside of coming out swinging is that India would likely have ended up with a score around 280 instead of 306. There may be a psychological benefit of crossing 300.

Anyway, it is Dhoni's decision. No one can tell him that he needs to try for that 0.1% chance of a win that won't make much difference to India's knockout stage. If it was a knockout game and he did not try for the 0.1% chance, then as an Indian I would have been upset. This particular game just didn't have enough significance for India to go for the 0.1% chance of a win. Fine if Dhoni had tried, but okay if he didn't.

Ironically, this game was actually a knockout game for Pakistan (even though they were not playing) and not India, hence the strong reactions.

Yeah... there was much more than a 0.1% chance of chasing 11 / over on these pitches for the last seven overs... You say ‘Fine if Dhoni had tried, but okay if he didn’t’ So you are ok with him deliberately losing the game? Your reply shows that there is no real answer to Usman’s question. Your only response there is ‘Anyway it is Dhoni’s decision. No one can tell him...’ lol.

 

[jnaveen1980]

What about the 3 maidens in the first 6 overs, resulting in India's lowest PP1 score this WC? 30/1? Did that not look suspect to you? Even the commentators were bemused at that stage.

That is just India. They always go slow as everybody is capable picking up speed. If Rohit and Kohli batted 40 overs game was INdia's to lose even if India is 0 runs at 10 overs. They are pretty much capable of destroying bowling in middle overs. But sadly they bowled 50% of the balls slow balls which Indians failed to come to terms with. They had a clear plan wasting time between each ball, set the field on longer side of the boundary and bowled on that side. It was basically a game won on tactics. India didn't prepare themselves well. Next time they will be up for it.

 

[jnaveen1980]

one side 59m boundary the other 82m... )

Next bowl underarms to eng team...

India did play as if they played on a regular pitch. They didn't use that dimensions well. England came with a clear plan of loading fielders on the longer side and bowling on that side.

 

[Titan24]

Maybe if your team actually played well when it mattered...

How does Pak’s qualification or not justify destroying the spirit of the game. Yes one cant be conclusive but then what has Pak’s qualification has to do with it. Even Ganguly, Mangerker and English experts are questioning it.

 

[Mueez]

To be honest Kohli looked furious at himself when he got out.

He wanted to chase this down.

Only Dhoni and Jadhav messed up the chase.

But it is what it is, they both (Dhoni not anymore) are not capable to chase 338.

 

[AdamM97]

We have brutally embarrassed ourselves over the last 12 hours.

The fact that the the number one trend on Twitter in Pakistan at the moment is #fixed sums up our mentality and explains why we are in this miserable state as a cricket team and also as a nation.

We have a disease, and not only the fans but the ex-players and other prominent public personalities have been infected by this virus as well.

Instead of focusing on why our incompetent team left their fortune’s in the hands of India, we are complaining about why India didn’t help us qualify for the semifinals.

Our incompetent team forced our fans to swallow their pride and support India, all because they were not good enough to beat West Indies, India or Australia.

We can moan about the Sri Lanka washout as much as we want, but if our circus team had beaten either of these three teams, we would not be pinning our hopes in India beating England for our sake.

We prove over and over again that we are only good at running our mouths and cannot walk the the talk. I truly feel ashamed today.

You over-analyze wayyy to much. Every nation is filled with people believing in conspiracy theories, as if India isn't filled with people believing in conspiracy theories such as Taj Mahal being a Hindu temple and cow urine curing cancer.

"We can moan about the Sri Lanka washout as much as we want", says you moaning in every thread.

 

[Majestic_Inzi]

To be honest Kohli looked furious at himself when he got out.

He wanted to chase this down.

Only Dhoni and Jadhav messed up the chase.

But it is what it is, they both (Dhoni not anymore) are not capable to chase 338.

come on 27-1 after 10 overs, they had no intention to chase but regardless its happened, NZ VS ENG next game to watch. Hope NZ challenge them, they have lost 2 in a row now....

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

Sourav ganguly :-
'I can't explain this."
"You can't chase 338 and have 5 wickets in hand."

Nadser hussain:-
"I am baffled."

hmmm....small difference in intentionaly loosing and not having the calibre to win, inthe position they were in.......i seriously thought ex-india players and our media takes the cake in the illogical hysterical bombastic stuff and stakes....but your crowd is top of the pops....

 

[AdamM97]

Lesson to pak fans from the last few days.. enemy is a enemy no matter what, do not expect any kind of mercy.

Apart from Lanka/windies every other board wants to rip pcb apart!!

Really? Apart from India, Afghanistan and maybe Bangladesh, i don't see a reason why any other nation would want to rip us apart.

 

[Titan24]

Its really funny how some posters are trying to divert it towards Waqar’s own spirit and Pak should only blame itself etc

How does that justify the questionable play from Indian team?

 

[Savak]

Mamoon the perpetual downer

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

India did play as if they played on a regular pitch. They didn't use that dimensions well. England came with a clear plan of loading fielders on the longer side and bowling on that side.

An awesome take on the game m8....that short boundaries thing was a good observation....and donot forget we only had one LH in pant....(they had 2 and one failed....the other fired....but thats a different story altogether)....

 

[Titan24]

Many posters are trying to divert it to Waqar’s own spirt and Pakistan should only blame themselves etc.

How is it related to the questionable approach India went with?

Cricket commentators and experts have actually played international cricket unlike some here and they can pick something when its dodgy. Though I am pleasantly surprised that experts all around the globe have generally been vocal about this.

 

[dildilpak]

Credit to Waqar for speaking out on this and for saying what he thinks.

Too many other former Pakistani players in the media will sit quietly on the fence for the fear of upsetting their masters.

Saj, some of us still remember the elephant in the room - CT09 Pak vs Australia, Younis Khan smiling after losing to Australia to knock out India. Isn’t it hypocritical for these ex- players to forget what happened back then before bringing up sportsmanship?

 

[Savak]

England used loads of slower deliveries in the innings and at the death. I wonder if that is the kryptonite for this Indian batting line up

 

[AdamM97]

Credit to Waqar for speaking out on this and for saying what he thinks.

Too many other former Pakistani players in the media will sit quietly on the fence for the fear of upsetting their masters.

Especially Shoaib Akhtar. He got outraged over the Afghan CEO's comments about Pakistan Cricket but he will never dare get outraged when Indians are spewing hate towards Pakistan. Instead, he will make videos about how he loves India to get more views.

 

[jnaveen1980]

India tactically outgunned. That is all i can say. Inspite of everything India was in the game. But most unpardonable thing was Dhoni's mega flop of not going for a review second time in a row. Roy's dismissal at that point would have brought Root in. Bairstow slowed down as soon as Roy got out. Their goal was both going after bowling until first wicket fell. It completely changed the dynamics. Pitch started slowing down by 30th over. By the time India used up bulk of Kuldeep's over. India will be ready next time they meet these guys. (Hope NZ put these arrogant guys away)

 

[JaDed]

Maybe ICC should put Pak in semis or give them the cup straight away because it seems like only they have to compete.

 

[AAli98]

Really? Apart from India, Afghanistan and maybe Bangladesh, i don't see a reason why any other nation would want to rip us apart.

Bcci is the rest of the boards dad.. they would do anything to please them ie not to tour pak wen Lanka/windies don’t mind.

 

[FreePalestine]

Saj, some of us still remember the elephant in the room - CT09 Pak vs Australia, Younis Khan smiling after losing to Australia to knock out India. Isn’t it hypocritical for these ex- players to forget what happened back then before bringing up sportsmanship?

I think we lost that game by 2 runs? Not really likely it was fixed, especially against Australians, who always win tight games. Younis Khan is always smiling

 

[FreePalestine]

Many posters are trying to divert it to Waqar’s own spirt and Pakistan should only blame themselves etc.

How is it related to the questionable approach India went with?

Cricket commentators and experts have actually played international cricket unlike some here and they can pick something when its dodgy. Though I am pleasantly surprised that experts all around the globe have generally been vocal about this.

I agree with you on your first point. Have experts been vocal about it? So far have heard Waqar; Nasser and Ganguly during commentary; Gary Linekar; Kevin Pietersen. Anyone else called it out for what it was yet?

 

[Mueez]

come on 27-1 after 10 overs, they had no intention to chase but regardless its happened, NZ VS ENG next game to watch. Hope NZ challenge them, they have lost 2 in a row now....

No tension.

I have faith in NZ.

Their spot is also in danger zone.

They will play for a win.

 

[Babbar]

Pakistan wants India to play with them or pay dollars for some phantom loss incurred or help them reach Semis. If India does not do all that, it’s all conspiracy!

No way in hell, India would like England to reach Semi. England still won because it was their day, their toss and their pitch. It happens! Move on!

 

[Duckworth Lewis]

Pathetic from Waqar. The intention was not to get Pakistan eliminated. They probably didn't even have Pakistan in their minds. It is Dhoni's inaabilty and a lack of fire in the last 5 overs because the result don't matter much to us. Pant, Pandya, Rohit, Kohli did try. It wad Dhoni and Jadhav who gave up too soon because they knew they don't have it in them to chase it down. Now if some journalist brings this to Kohli, he surely will have some harsh words and Pakistanis should be ready for more embarrassment.

 

[ak619]

How does Pak’s qualification or not justify destroying the spirit of the game. Yes one cant be conclusive but then what has Pak’s qualification has to do with it. Even Ganguly, Mangerker and English experts are questioning it.

Most Indian fans don't think that the "spirit of the game" was threatened by yesterday's match.

It's mostly the Pakistani fans who are saying this. When they shouldn't be bothered by how India played.

So don't tell us "how does Pakistan come into this". It's all about Pakistan. If Pakistan's SF spot wasn't reliant on yesterday's match then we wouldn't even be having this lengthy a discussion.

 

[Titan24]

I agree with you on your first point. Have experts been vocal about it? So far have heard Waqar; Nasser and Ganguly during commentary; Gary Linekar; Kevin Pietersen. Anyone else called it out for what it was yet?

These are the ones at the moment I think and as they were actually involved in the match one way or another except maybe Waqar.

 

[dhump]

Comments are uncalled for and must not come from former captain and player. I don't think he is entirely wrong though the batting display and lack of intent shown by Dhoni and co were unsportsmanlike you play to win the game for your country in an ODI match, and Dhoni didn't try to do so.

 

[Titan24]

Most Indian fans don't think that the "spirit of the game" was threatened by yesterday's match.

It's mostly the Pakistani fans who are saying this. When they shouldn't be bothered by how India played.

So don't tell us "how does Pakistan come into this". It's all about Pakistan. If Pakistan's SF spot wasn't reliant on yesterday's match then we wouldn't even be having this lengthy a discussion.

So Ganguly, Naseer Hussain, KP, Gary Linekar are Pakistani fans?

 

[dildilpak]

I think we lost that game by 2 runs? Not really likely it was fixed, especially against Australians, who always win tight games. Younis Khan is always smiling

I can’t think of a single player smiling after loosing a game but then what goes around, comes back. Karma might have come back to bite us.

But also to think about is the fact that Dhoni has been visibly struggling the whole tournament & even for some months back , some of my Indian friends were questioning his selection for the WC. In this case, how much of this lack of intent is deliberate & how much incompetence we can only speculate over.

Anyways I am more angry with Pakistan for losing cheaply against WI & creating all sorts of problem for themselves. Blaming India for knocking us out won’t mask the lack of intent shown by the team in the first half of the tournament.

 

[PakWarrior]

Shoaib Akhtar won't dare to criticize India over yesterday.

Most of his followers on his YouTube channel are Indian. So if Shoaib criticized India yesterday or accused them of poor sportsmanship then that would mean Shoaib would lose lots of revenue.

Also Shoaib still has huge ambitions to coach in the IPL once relations improve and to make money on Indian TV.

Wasim Akram is the same.

Wasim and Shoaib know that they have lots of money to make in India so they will not upset Indian fans.

And now Shahid Afridi has a book contract from India so he will also bend his back for India.

Waqar Younis is a true patriot.

 

[ak619]

So Ganguly, Naseer Hussain, KP, Gary Linekar are Pakistani fans?

No they are people who are paid to voice their opinions. And they have done so. But none of them gave any explanation for the same. Please quote them if I have missed it.

What I don't understand is what is it to Pakistan fans how India played. It's India which lost 2 points.

Why do Pakistan fans feel like they are even entitled to an explanation for yesterday's match? PCT was not playing yesterday. It's none of the fans' business how the match went.

Statements like "match was fixed" and "spirit of cricket was murdered" only makes Pakistani cricket look weaker. Pakistani fans and (ex)-players with any amount of self-respect really shouldn't be saying anything about this match at all.

Before the match we saw Pakistani fans chanting "Jai Hind" and waving the tri-colour and now after the result we see this. Surely people have more self-respect than that.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Most Indian fans don't think that the "spirit of the game" was threatened by yesterday's match.

It's mostly the Pakistani fans who are saying this. When they shouldn't be bothered by how India played.

So don't tell us "how does Pakistan come into this". It's all about Pakistan. If Pakistan's SF spot wasn't reliant on yesterday's match then we wouldn't even be having this lengthy a discussion.

Yes. Didn't see Waqar crying when Dhoni and Jadhav played maidens in last 10 overs against Afghanistan.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Why do so many ex Pakistani players have a habit of talking nonsense?

Sadly but truly that is how their thinking process is.

Even if India deliberately lost a game to send pakistan out isnt that a plan or strategy to win the CWC eventually which i think is absolutely fine....

Pakistan had 8 games so far with one being washed out to make the semis, if they cant then that means they are not good enough to be there yet with 1 game to go, pretty straightforward...

 

[Titan24]

No they are people who are paid to voice their opinions. And they have done so. But none of them gave any explanation for the same. Please quote them if I have missed it.

What I don't understand is what is it to Pakistan fans how India played. It's India which lost 2 points.

Why do Pakistan fans feel like they are even entitled to an explanation for yesterday's match? PCT was not playing yesterday. It's none of the fans' business how the match went.

Statements like "match was fixed" and "spirit of cricket was murdered" only makes Pakistani cricket look weaker. Pakistani fans and (ex)-players with any amount of self-respect really shouldn't be saying anything about this match at all.

Before the match we saw Pakistani fans chanting "Jai Hind" and waving the tri-colour and now after the result we see this. Surely people have more self-respect than that.

I would have made same points if it would have been any other team instead of India as well.

Again you are revolving around Pakistan fans and cricket team when the issue at hand is much larger.

 

[Titan24]

No they are people who are paid to voice their opinions. And they have done so. But none of them gave any explanation for the same. Please quote them if I have missed it.

What I don't understand is what is it to Pakistan fans how India played. It's India which lost 2 points.

Why do Pakistan fans feel like they are even entitled to an explanation for yesterday's match? PCT was not playing yesterday. It's none of the fans' business how the match went.

Statements like "match was fixed" and "spirit of cricket was murdered" only makes Pakistani cricket look weaker. Pakistani fans and (ex)-players with any amount of self-respect really shouldn't be saying anything about this match at all.

Before the match we saw Pakistani fans chanting "Jai Hind" and waving the tri-colour and now after the result we see this. Surely people have more self-respect than that.

They said as much as they could have.

 

[BalluBalleBaaz]

Waqar should really be questioning inability of Jhadav, he is pretty pathetic whereas dhoni is old diesel engine never know when he will fire.

 

[loves_cricket]

totally agree with Waqar...class and integrity is always tested in strange ways and during trying times for one or the other..

So match fixing and ball tempering is all hallmark of class and integrity.
I am happy our standards are not that high. We scored 306 chasing 337, lost 1st wicket on 0, people questioning our integrity and class,

 

[Ucdkee]

Saj, some of us still remember the elephant in the room - CT09 Pak vs Australia, Younis Khan smiling after losing to Australia to knock out India. Isn’t it hypocritical for these ex- players to forget what happened back then before bringing up sportsmanship?

And you think that just because younis khan was smiling, Pakistan deliberately lost that match? That match went till the last bowl. Please go and see the scorecard or even watch the highlights of that game. It was a brilliant game (not one sided at all, like India vs eng) in which we fought till the last ball. Maybe because you were not able to identify any suspicious activity during that game, you directed all the attention towards younis khan's smile and made a fuss about it?

 

[ak619]

I would have made same points if it would have been any other team instead of India as well.

Again you are revolving around Pakistan fans and cricket team when the issue at hand is much larger.

What exactly is the issue?

That India threw the match? Even if it is so, so what? It was their match to throw. If like England, India had come into this match as a must-win encounter then they wouldn't have had the option to "throw" the match.

Maybe they felt that facing NZ in the semi is a better option than facing England or even Pakistan. If India was actually in a position to decide who they might play in the SF then so be it. They only managed to do so because they won 6 out of 6 games before that. They earned that privilege.

Credit to India for performing so well that even after yesterday's loss they are still a surety for the SF.

If PCT had managed to replicate India's WC performance so far, then you wouldn't even need to be in this thread right now.