Stats to ponder upon : Umar Akmal and Ahmed Shehzad under different captains

[Slog]

You often keep hearing about how Ahmed Shehzad and Umar Akmal are talents who would have made a lot of runs and had a lot of success if only they had been playing under a captain other than Misbah. One thing you hear about Shehzad especially is how he used to be an aggressive player who was made to change his game and play slowly under the influence of Misbah and prior to that was a attacking, positive batsman.

So a good way to check is how these two's records compared under captain apart from Misbah.



From this it looks like they have had their BEST years under Misbah!!!

So what I want to know is how did this myth come about and why does the impression persist that now thta Misbah is gone they will strike at 90+ with an average of 45 or sth.!

 

[msb314]

You often keep hearing about how Ahmed Shehzad and Umar Akmal are talents who would have made a lot of runs and had a lot of success if only they had been playing under a captain other than Misbah. One thing you hear about Shehzad especially is how he used to be an aggressive player who was made to change his game and play slowly under the influence of Misbah and prior to that was a attacking, positive batsman.

So a good way to check is how these two's records compared under captain apart from Misbah.

View attachment 63315

From this it looks like they have had their BEST years under Misbah!!!

So what I want to know is how did this myth come about and why does the impression persist that now thta Misbah is gone they will strike at 90+ with an average of 45 or sth.!

Please do keep in mind that under YK in 2009 Shehzad was a 17 year old kid and played one 3 match series against Australia.

Under Afridi - he played in his first WC and was still very young despite scoring a hundred vs WI mid-2011.

 

[Slog]

Please do keep in mind that under YK in 2009 Shehzad was a 17 year old kid and played one 3 match series against Australia.

Under Afridi - he played in his first WC and was still very young despite scoring a hundred vs WI mid-2011.

he played about 10 matches under YK.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Now ppl will go and check against whom they played who was the opponent blah blah.. Misbah was lenient, supportive and allowed these young fellas to flourish under his captaincy for 2-3 years not being dropped despite few failures...

I dont understand when the success comes it their own meticulous planning and positive approach of the batsman, but when they miserably fail it is MISBAH the captain..

 

[msb314]

he played about 10 matches under YK.

U nailed it bro.. Misbah haters cum shehzadians finding room to hide their faces...Fact Fact FACT.......

He played 4 ODI's under YK

Unless you are referring to all 3 formats combined.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ilter=advanced;template=results;type=allround

 

[JibranAnsari]

I think these stats show nothing for umar akmal.

Umar akmal has regressed mentally in the last 3 yeaes or so.

 

[Slog]

He played 4 ODI's under YK

Unless you are referring to all 3 formats combined.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ilter=advanced;template=results;type=allround

oh sorry my mistake. I confused it with Akmal who played around 10 under him. Anyways the point stands. He was still worse under aggressive Afridi than Misbah

 

[Slog]

I think these stats show nothing for umar akmal.

Umar akmal has regressed mentally in the last 3 yeaes or so.

that is true to an extent.

But for Shehzad they show that he is operating at a standard level pretty much.

 

[axl100mph]

that is true to an extent.

But for Shehzad they show that he is operating at a standard level pretty much.

Still better than a 24 avg at 68 s/r

 

[o_ahsan99]

I have been a big fan of Shehzad but it is about time that he starts pulling his weight. Shehzad has been on the international circuit for almost 5 years now and for the past 2 years he has been a regular member of the team. He should have been a settled player by now and scoring consistent runs. I hope he has a good series against NZ and his career gets back on track.

 

[JibranAnsari]

I think these stats show nothing for umar akmal.

Umar akmal has regressed mentally in the last 3 yeaes or so.

 

[JibranAnsari]

that is true to an extent.

But for Shehzad they show that he is operating at a standard level pretty much.

Yah captaincy dont have much effect on him

 

[#GreenRoars]

What captains have to do with player performances?? it's not Misbah, Afridi, YK, or any other captain's fault. It's purely batsman/bowler fault who can't perform. Shehzad was opener under every captain, and i am sure no captain is dumb enough to ask an opener to do tuck tuck rather than his natural aggressive game. He regressed with the time, which is his own fault.
Same case is with Umar Akmal, he loves to put blame on others, that's why till now he is a failure, a massive failure despite of having great hidden potential.
They day when they both realize that they are responsible for their failures, only and only they are responsible for letting their selves down, and they day when they realize that their performances are much needed for their country, am sure that miraculous day (Btw i don't have any hope that this day will come) will change their standard and they will become much much better players.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

their performances have nothing to do with captain....

 

[Asadullah]

Poor cricketers. Wish we had better talent pickers in domestics so that we would not have had to tolerate these two mediocre players, an embarrassment both on and off the field

 

[Haroon786]

What captains have to do with player performances?? it's not Misbah, Afridi, YK, or any other captain's fault. It's purely batsman/bowler fault who can't perform. Shehzad was opener under every captain, and i am sure no captain is dumb enough to ask an opener to do tuck tuck rather than his natural aggressive game. He regressed with the time, which is his own fault.
Same case is with Umar Akmal, he loves to put blame on others, that's why till now he is a failure, a massive failure despite of having great hidden potential.
They day when they both realize that they are responsible for their failures, only and only they are responsible for letting their selves down, and they day when they realize that their performances are much needed for their country, am sure that miraculous day (Btw i don't have any hope that this day will come) will change their standard and they will become much much better players.

Good post.

OT, they're both crap.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Good work - but the stats are almost the same under all captains. It's not like they are 20 under one captain and 40 under another. Statistically insignificant difference.

Don't get the point.

 

[proud_pakistani]

Not much difference in the stats. Only thing which is significantly different is Umar Akmal's 94 SR under Younis Khan. Beastly. Shehzad though under Younis 26.5 @ 53. Horrible

 

[Slog]

Good work - but the stats are almost the same under all captains. It's not like they are 20 under one captain and 40 under another. Statistically insignificant difference.

Don't get the point.

That's precisely the point. Many Umar Akmal and Shehzad diehards say that Misbahs captaincy and his style of play of play is responsible for them not being as successful as they could have been. Shehzadians also say that due to Misbah captaincy and playing style Shehzad, a naturally aggressive opener according to them, played slow while under captains other than Misbah he used to be an attacking opener.

The bare stats show that all these claims are lies and making things up. Having them being captained by someone else won't automatically make them world beaters or even better than what they are

 

[Saj]

Average batsmen.

Glorified due to social media. Neither would have been anywhere near the Pakistan team in years gone by.

By the way these stats are in ODIs I guess?

 

[sarfarazrules]

No just no. Nonsensical post...

 

[Bullet Drive]

Average batsmen.

Glorified due to social media. Neither would have been anywhere near the Pakistan team in years gone by.

By the way these stats are in ODIs I guess?

Ofc its ODI. Check the SR!

And personally I don't think they're average.

Must remember both haven't played a single ODI/TEST at home. And both still young.

 

[Slog]

Average batsmen.

Glorified due to social media. Neither would have been anywhere near the Pakistan team in years gone by.

By the way these stats are in ODIs I guess?

Yea they're tests

Or did you get confused by Shehzads test like Strike rate? )

 

[Acricketfan]

Yea they're tests

Or did you get confused by Shehzads test like Strike rate? )

Warner's strike rate in Tests is higher than Shehzad's in ODIs. )

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Both the players performances have nothing to do with the captains.

Both have regressed but Umar has regressed more than Ahmed.


If you just see Umar Akmal's first odi hundred , first test hundred and fifty against Australia in world T20 and compare these three innings with all his fifties and hundred against Afghanistan you will know find a huge change.


If you compare Ahmed Shehzad's all fifties and hundreds with his century in an odi in new Zealand you will find a huge change.


This has nothing to do with captains under whom they have played. Shohrat at such a young age damaagh ko cherh gaee. Mehnat justagu pehlay se kum ker di. Seekhnay ka Samajhnay ka Amal khatam ker diya. Mature aor stable honay ki bjaey immaturity ki janib parwaaz. Jahan pe thay na wahan thehray na uss se aagay berhay ulta reverse geyer laga diye dono ne. Khaas ker Umar Akmal.

One more thing. After 2 ODI's sehwag was dropped. He went back to domestic scored heaps of runs and came back with the same positive aggressive intend.

Ahmed Shehzad got dropped due to attitude issues and few failures only but after playing more international games than Sehwag he got dropped. He went back scored lots of runs and came back with only slightly improved attitude but he lost his previous aggressive positive approach towards batting. Became slightly more consistent with pessimistic batting. His flair got lost. Whereas Sehwag did not compromise his flair, aggressiveness and positive intent. His batting approach did not change.

 

[in_cutter]

Did Misbah affect the Umar Akmal's batting?

According to some, Misbah is one of the reasons why Umar Akmal has been failing...also other youngsta beauties.

I quote [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] post that debunks this myth..proving Akmal fans are making excuses.

Firstly I agree the selectors are incompetent but not for the reasons you think. The selectors are incompetent because they keep giving unlimited chances to players like Akmal, Shafiq, Maqsood, Anwar Ali in ODIs despite their failures instead of dropping them so they can prove themselves back in domestic and make them fight their way back.

So it was Misbah holding Akmal down all along ? He was inhibiting Akmal's natural game ? OK so let's take that argument. Do you know what the partnership records are between Misbah and Umar Akmal ?

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...emplate=results;type=batting;view=fow_summary

42 innings in which Misbah and Umar Akmal have a partnership average of 44.40. 3 hundred partnerships and 12 fifties. Why do the numbers show whenever Akmal batted with Misbah he thrived more than he failed ? Umar Akmal made the MOST runs in partnerships involving Misbah than ANY other batsmen.

Here's a list of all their partnerships - http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;template=results;type=batting;view=fow_list

Now I bet they were tuk-tukking right ? Go through some of the partnerships and Umar Akmal's own performances. He didn't look inhibited by the presence of his skipper - look at the RR they were going at in some of their most successful partnerships.

5th ODI vs Sri Lanka 2012 - Misbah-Akmal partnership of 61 with RR of 6.
5th ODI vs West Indies 2013, a stand of 66 at RR of 6.82.
Asia Cup vs Sri Lanka 2014, a partnership of 121 at RR of 6.36.
Asia Cup vs Sri Lanka 2012, partnership of 152 at RR of 5.80 after Pakistan were 33-3 !

It seemed Misbah and Akmal complemented each other well at the crease !

Final point - let's compare Umar Akmal's batting performances under the "aggressive captain" Shahid Afridi and the "defensive tuk-tukker reign of terror captaincy" that was Misbah-ul-Haq.

Umar Akmal under Shahid Afridi's captaincy - avg 33, SR of 84, 0 hundreds and four fifties.
Umar Akmal under Misbah's captaincy - avg 35, SR is actually higher at 86, 1 hundred and thirteen fifties.

Yeah, Misbah was really killing Akmal's career wasn't he.

 

[carrom_ball]

Umar akmal was always a mediocre batsman who was over-hyped and thus was bound to fail like he did

 

[PetroDollars]

It was the mentality and belief of Misbah of doing tik tik for 5 balls and than smashing the ball to the boundary that was destroying the team. Wonder why everyone was batting like that? It was his philosophy.

 

[larkykid]

Nothing new here, as always #Misbahsfault

 

[in_cutter]

It was the mentality and belief of Misbah of doing tik tik for 5 balls and than smashing the ball to the boundary that was destroying the team. Wonder why everyone was batting like that? It was his philosophy.

Misbah is no longer part of the ODI team which is pathetic. Who are you blaming now?

 

[in_cutter]

No just no. Nonsensical post...

Go on. Tell us why rather than responding with a one sentence argument.

 

[Markhor]

Misbah captained 87 ODIs and Akmal played in 67 of them so this myth spread by certain fans that Misbah was holding back Akmal's career and didn't back him needs to be busted now.

Is 67 chances not enough ? In total, Akmal has played 111 ODIs yet he's regressed over that time and had a shocking World Cup. For once can we stop blaming evil captains/evil PCB/evil coaches and hold players accountable for their own performances ?

 

[HuzaifaE]

The issue, if anything, was always Misbah himself as a batman clogging up the middle order and choking the run rate to create pressure, the Misbah's captaincy was the issue argument is BS.

 

[W63L35]

You often keep hearing about how Ahmed Shehzad and Umar Akmal are talents who would have made a lot of runs and had a lot of success if only they had been playing under a captain other than Misbah. One thing you hear about Shehzad especially is how he used to be an aggressive player who was made to change his game and play slowly under the influence of Misbah and prior to that was a attacking, positive batsman.

So a good way to check is how these two's records compared under captain apart from Misbah.

View attachment 63315

From this it looks like they have had their BEST years under Misbah!!!

Highlighted statement is not totally correct because Umar Akmal had best S/R and Ave under Younis Khan. In addition, the number of ODIs played by Shehzad and Umar Akmal under Younis Khan are 4 and 9 respectively. What kind pattern 4 and 9 ODIs can prove?


If you are trying to glorify Misbah by OP, then why did you eliminate Azhar Ali from the list of captains for Shehzad...who had a S/R of 72 under Misbah but 85 under Azhar Ali?

Why didn't you pick Hafeez and Malik under Azahr vs Misbah?
Did you compare Asad under Misbah and under Afridi?
Here....I'll let you post the results;

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/41434.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/42657.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/316397.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting

So what I want to know is how did this myth come about and why does the impression persist that now thta Misbah is gone they will strike at 90+ with an average of 45 or sth.!

See the difference between top six batsmen under Azhar and Misbah.
Yes, S/R is almost 90 (88.50).....8 points more than under Misbah and Batting average is 41..... 13 points more than under Misbah.


You can not pick two batsmen (Umar and Shehzad) and then make a blanket statement for the whole batting order!

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Highlighted statement is not totally correct because Umar Akmal had best S/R and Ave under Younis Khan. In addition, the number of ODIs played by Shehzad and Umar Akmal under Younis Khan are 4 and 9 respectively. What kind pattern 4 and 9 ODIs can prove?


If you are trying to glorify Misbah by OP, then why did you eliminate Azhar Ali from the list of captains for Shehzad...who had a S/R of 72 under Misbah but 85 under Azhar Ali?

Why didn't you pick Hafeez and Malik under Azahr vs Misbah?
Did you compare Asad under Misbah and under Afridi?
Here....I'll let you post the results;

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/41434.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/42657.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/316397.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting




See the difference between top six batsmen under Azhar and Misbah.
Yes, S/R is almost 90 (88.50).....8 points more than under Misbah and Batting average is 41..... 13 points more than under Misbah.


You can not pick two batsmen (Umar and Shehzad) and then make a blanket statement for the whole batting order!

I support your idea [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] but damn.... This guys got you there

 

[The_KING]

Poor players will always remain poor players regardless of how the captain is.

 

[Slog]

Highlighted statement is not totally correct because Umar Akmal had best S/R and Ave under Younis Khan. In addition, the number of ODIs played by Shehzad and Umar Akmal under Younis Khan are 4 and 9 respectively. What kind pattern 4 and 9 ODIs can prove?


If you are trying to glorify Misbah by OP, then why did you eliminate Azhar Ali from the list of captains for Shehzad...who had a S/R of 72 under Misbah but 85 under Azhar Ali?

Why didn't you pick Hafeez and Malik under Azahr vs Misbah?
Did you compare Asad under Misbah and under Afridi?
Here....I'll let you post the results;

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/41434.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/42657.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/316397.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting




See the difference between top six batsmen under Azhar and Misbah.
Yes, S/R is almost 90 (88.50).....8 points more than under Misbah and Batting average is 41..... 13 points more than under Misbah.


You can not pick two batsmen (Umar and Shehzad) and then make a blanket statement for the whole batting order!

This excuse is made for Shehzad and Akmal mostly so they are under discussion.

Quoting Azhar stats are irrelevant due to 2 reasons:

1) Akmal hasn't played under him so in a comparison I can only put captains BOTH have played under. Secondly even Shehzads stars are poor if you include the matches under Sarfaraz captaincy for the period.

2) sample size is not large enough anyway (neither was it for Under YK but included him because both have played under him. Basis was that both should have played under him)

And lastly thread was not related to glorifying Misbah because frankly as out most successful captainsl ever he doesn't even need that

Point of the thread is to expose Akmal and Shehzad fanboys for making up the fake excuse that Misbah somehow negativey affected their performance.

Understand the point of the thread. I appreciate you took out the time to put out fancy stats and charts but they were irrelevant and frankly useless to the point of the thread as the thread is solely about 2 players and how their performances remain similar regardless of which captain they are playing under.

 

[ChachaCricket]

These stats prove that Umar is capable of becoming a dynamic batsman while Shehzad will always be trash.

 

[W63L35]

This excuse is made for Shehzad and Akmal mostly so they are under discussion.

No. The so called "excuse" is made for Misbah himself and the whole ODI batting lineup under Misbah! Can you show me even 5 threads made regarding that excuse - about Umar Akmal or Ahmed Shehzad? I, on the other hand, can show you 20 threads.... about pathetic/horrible S/R of Misbah and the of the top order under Misbah!

Quoting Azhar stats are irrelevant due to 2 reasons:

1) Akmal hasn't played under him so in a comparison I can only put captains BOTH have played under. Secondly even Shehzads stars are poor if you include the matches under Sarfaraz captaincy for the period.

2) sample size is not large enough anyway (neither was it for Under YK but included him because both have played under him. Basis was that both should have played under him)

It is totally relevant.... as YOU are the one raised this question ....

So what I want to know is how did this myth come about and why does the impression persist that now that Misbah is gone they will strike at 90+ with an average of 45 or sth.!

So who is the captain...when Misbah is gone? Azhar! Isn't it?
So Azhar is relevant .... because it was YOU who questioned post-Misbah era!

And lastly thread was not related to glorifying Misbah because frankly as out most successful captainsl ever he doesn't even need that

I respect your opinion but as far as I am concerned, I Misbah was one of the worst ODI batsman ever and worst ODI captain who played his favorites and kept deserving players out. He left the team on the verge of being #9.... one series loss and we were at #9.... and almost failed to qualify to CT.

Point of the thread is to expose Akmal and Shehzad fanboys for making up the fake excuse that Misbah somehow negativey affected their performance.

Shehzad's S/R under Misbah is 73 and under Azhar 85...a difference of 12 points.
What would you tell those fan boys now?

Understand the point of the thread. I appreciate you took out the time to put out fancy stats and charts but they were irrelevant and frankly useless to the point of the thread as the thread is solely about 2 players and how their performances remain similar regardless of which captain they are playing under.

Why can't the be analyzed separately? Just because Shehzad's stats have improved a lot under Azhar?

Just because Umar Akmal has not been selected under Azhar, you don't want to admit that Shehzad's S/R improved 12 points under Azhar ... from Misbah.

 

[Slog]

Why can't the be analyzed separately? Just because Shehzad's stats have improved a lot under Azhar?

Just because Umar Akmal has not been selected under Azhar, you don't want to admit that Shehzad's S/R improved 12 points under Azhar ... from Misbah.

This is just a myth in your mind. As I said including stats under Azhar are not relevant as both havent played under him and it is a comparison of both under different captains.

But if you do wanna include that period then lets be fair. We shall include his stats under the Azhar reign which includes matches under Sarfaraz Ahmed aswell

So now lets analyze Shehzad post WC period:

His overall stats under both captains (Azhar and Sarfaraz) are: Average 34, SR: 79

Under Azhar Ali his stats: Avg:34, SR: 85. Average is stil poor but SR fairly high

However the crucial part is that its all due to one innings which points out to his major problem of inconsistency.

If you take our his 95(90) - which is an anomaly for Shehzad his stats post WC (under Azhar and Sarfaraz) are: Average: 25, SR: 70. Meaning that if you take out one innings then he is performing even worse than before.

So overall he has been still very poor and infact worse. Infact if you take out one innings he has a very very poor record

 

[Majid Khan]

Umar Akmal would be ideally suited for the next evolution of limited-overs cricket - we've had 50 overs, Twenty-20, the next one is Fiver-Fiver (5 overs per innings). I still wouldn't back him to carry his bat through the 5 overs if he opened, but at least he can hold his head up with pride scoring quick fire 20s and 30s.

 

[Markhor]

I support your idea [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] but damn.... This guys got you there

No he hasn't. Comparing team batting performances under the captaincy of Misbah and Azhar is risible given Azhar has captained against sides such as Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, a terrible Sri Lanka side and Zimbabwe again so OF COURSE team batting performances will show a better average and SR. As usual the poster in question cherrypicks stats to suit his agenda.

 

[Slog]

No he hasn't. Comparing team batting performances under the captaincy of Misbah and Azhar is risible given Azhar has captained against sides such as Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, a terrible Sri Lanka side and Zimbabwe again so OF COURSE team batting performances will show a better average and SR. As usual the poster in question cherrypicks stats to suit his agenda.

i dont even mind the cherry picking and bringing in other players (despite thread being clearly about 2 players rather than Misbah). However it was very convenient of him to forget about Shehzads epic 30 off 60 odd in one of the games under Sarfaraz when Azhar was injured.

 

[Markhor]

i dont even mind the cherry picking and bringing in other players (despite thread being clearly about 2 players rather than Misbah). However it was very convenient of him to forget about Shehzads epic 30 off 60 odd in one of the games under Sarfaraz when Azhar was injured.

Its amazing how a player's failure is never their fault, it has to be the captain for not giving EVEN more chances to them. Its also very convenient to talk about the ODI performances being so poor under Misbah (which I accept have been extremely disappointing especially in UAE) and forget about the woeful ODI form we were in BEFORE his captaincy. Go back and look at the 2006-2011 period and people will find our ODI struggles weren't a Misbah invention but part of a longer term trend. We are simply not a good ODI team and haven't been for many years.

Have people forgotten the 2007 WC group stage exit, defeats at HOME to India (06), South Africa (07) and Sri Lanka (09) including an infamous 75 all out at Lahore, defeats away to South Africa (07), Sri Lanka (09), India (07) and England (10), and throw in two poor Asia Cups including one at home. Is Misbah absolved from criticism in not doing a better job of rebuilding the ODI team ? Of course not. But enough of this crap of "he was the worst ever ODI captain" when our ODI failures have occurred across many captains from Inzamam, Malik, Younis, Butt, Afridi and yes Misbah.

The common denominator is a substandard domestic system with poor pitches/balls, lack of quality coaching/professional standards compared to the top nations, unfit players and inept, unstable administration amongst so many other issues including a terrorist attack that deprived us of any home internationals meaning we're forever playing on foreign surfaces how can ANYONE be so simplistically minded to think all our problems is down to ONE individual.

 

[in_cutter]

[MENTION=2344]W63L35[/MENTION] has arrived...chest thumping. Lovely looking stats.

 

[Relapse]

I support your idea [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] but damn.... This guys got you there

He definitely did. Even i was wondering why the OP hasnt included Azhar's captaincy. A statistical analysis which is based on cherry picking shows confirmation bias.

 

[Slog]

He definitely did. Even i was wondering why the OP hasnt included Azhar's captaincy. A statistical analysis which is based on cherry picking shows confirmation bias.

Another person who can't understand a simple concept. I was comparing two players and since Umar hasn't played under Azhar there's no point to include stats under Axhar.


In any case in my later post I explained that if you include Shehzad stats under both Azhar and Sarfaraz it's still not pretty reading

 

[Relapse]

Another person who can't understand a simple concept. I was comparing two players and since Umar hasn't played under Azhar there's no point to include stats under Axhar.


In any case in my later post I explained that if you include Shehzad stats under both Azhar and Sarfaraz it's still not pretty reading

If i am not mistaken you were comparing how these two players played under different captains. You were not comparing them with each other so your point is very invalid in all honesty.

 

[Slog]

If i am not mistaken you were comparing how these two players played under different captains. You were not comparing them with each other so your point is very invalid in all honesty.

...how they compared to each other and whether different captains had major effect.

also the point is invalid because even in Azhar and Sarfaraz reign he averages 34@79 and even that is due to one innings. Tke that out its 25@70

 

[Saj]

We need to get players away from this blame culture in our cricket.

It was the coach's fault.
It was my batting position.
It was the captain's fault.

Come on take some ownership of your own performances, stop passing the buck.

 

[Saj]

Umar Akmal would be ideally suited for the next evolution of limited-overs cricket - we've had 50 overs, Twenty-20, the next one is Fiver-Fiver (5 overs per innings). I still wouldn't back him to carry his bat through the 5 overs if he opened, but at least he can hold his head up with pride scoring quick fire 20s and 30s.

Majid sahib, he couldn't do much in a super over. I wouldn't hold too much hope in a 5 over slog either.

 

[Saj]

And personally I don't think they're average.

Must remember both haven't played a single ODI/TEST at home. And both still young.

I guess you must be satisfied with mediocrity then if you think these stats are not average.

Ah yes the usual excuse of they are young which we will keep hearing for the next 10 years.

 

[Slog]

How will these guys do under Sarfaraz?

 

[captain crook]

If the best and the ceiling is 35-36.. that shows the poor and pathetic state of our cricket. Ashamed

 

[srh]

You often keep hearing about how Ahmed Shehzad and Umar Akmal are talents who would have made a lot of runs and had a lot of success if only they had been playing under a captain other than Misbah. One thing you hear about Shehzad especially is how he used to be an aggressive player who was made to change his game and play slowly under the influence of Misbah and prior to that was a attacking, positive batsman.

So a good way to check is how these two's records compared under captain apart from Misbah.

View attachment 63315

From this it looks like they have had their BEST years under Misbah!!!

So what I want to know is how did this myth come about and why does the impression persist that now thta Misbah is gone they will strike at 90+ with an average of 45 or sth.!

As per your stats, Umar Akmal has better average and better strike rate under YK than under Misbah. Either you are wrong or your stats are wrong

 

[Pete Rose]

Er.... my conclusion was that these players are too average to be helped

 

[Slog]

As per your stats, Umar Akmal has better average and better strike rate under YK than under Misbah. Either you are wrong or your stats are wrong

you are right but he didnt play a lot under YK (i think sl away series and a CT)

 

[CricketAnalyst]

You often keep hearing about how Ahmed Shehzad and Umar Akmal are talents who would have made a lot of runs and had a lot of success if only they had been playing under a captain other than Misbah. One thing you hear about Shehzad especially is how he used to be an aggressive player who was made to change his game and play slowly under the influence of Misbah and prior to that was a attacking, positive batsman.

So a good way to check is how these two's records compared under captain apart from Misbah.

View attachment 63315

From this it looks like they have had their BEST years under Misbah!!!

So what I want to know is how did this myth come about and why does the impression persist that now thta Misbah is gone they will strike at 90+ with an average of 45 or sth.!

Please note the most important fact:

Par scores have changed enormously from 2009 to 2017. In the Misbah era par totals were routinely 40/50 runs more than they were. 38.57 @ SR of 94 in 2009 adjusted scores is so good he would have been an ATG if he kept that standard up.

35.18@87 in 2015 terms is just about standard. Shehzad's average has steadily improved, but the SR of 73 is unacceptable now. (though note Ganguly and Dravid are considered greats with similar strike rate, so please note the effect that par scores has on the SR).

 

[WC-Passion]

Umar could have been decent at no.4-6 for Sarfraz if he wasn't cosplaying as a potato all the time. Seriously though he can be effective but his lack of fitness and poor attitude has dug his own grave.

 

[Slog]

Please note the most important fact:

Par scores have changed enormously from 2009 to 2017. In the Misbah era par totals were routinely 40/50 runs more than they were. 38.57 @ SR of 94 in 2009 adjusted scores is so good he would have been an ATG if he kept that standard up.

35.18@87 in 2015 terms is just about standard. Shehzad's average has steadily improved, but the SR of 73 is unacceptable now. (though note Ganguly and Dravid are considered greats with similar strike rate, so please note the effect that par scores has on the SR).

Akmal's start was certainly something:

Moving Average Progression:

Moving Strike Rate Progression

Note: This is from October 2015, so most certainly has gotten worse

 

[Slog]

Update Time:

 

[PakSarZameen]

Update Time:

View attachment 78439

Their T20I stats under various captains?

 

[Slog]

Their T20I stats under various captains?

Don't really care for the format

I'm sure overall Akmal is better but under Sarfaraz Shehzad is on top

 

[big_gamer007]

The failure of these two players is the reason why Pakistan is where they are.. These two were supposed to take the torch and be next generation of Pakistani superstar batsmen.. Like kohli and Rohit for India Umar and Shehzad were supposed to be for Pakistan.. However Mis management by PCB and bad behaviour by these players let to the current situation..

In an ideal world the current Pakistan team should have been built around them..

 

[Fahdi]

So Ahmed Shehzad has always been mediocre in LOIs.

And Umar was very good at the start of his career but regressed horribly in the last 2-3 years.

Nothing new really this is what we already knew.

 

[Slog]

So Ahmed Shehzad has always been mediocre in LOIs.

And Umar was very good at the start of his career but regressed horribly in the last 2-3 years.

Nothing new really this is what we already knew.

Shehzad enjoys this reputation of being a very aggressive batsmen and his die hard fans say that only under Misbah did he become slow. The stats show that this is a blatant lie. Heck his best days were under Misbah even if they were mediocre in the overall picture

Same with Umar Akmal. He's been consistently a 30 average player but plays at good rate

 

[Slog]

So a certain poster says this:

Shehzad came in to the international scene with potential and a flaring style of batting. It was under Misbah he regressed really badly as his attitude changed and his passion took a hit. He wasn't aggressive anymore and he became boring to watch. If he wasn't Pakistani, he might have not had to play under Misbah and if given the chances if brought to the international team, he may have not regressed like he did.

The way you play has a lot to do with the leadership you play under. I am a huge Misbah fan and I respect him a lot; but it's clear the style of the team and many individuals changed under Misbah and we became a defensive team. Our slow batting is notorious around the world because of this reason. It was under Misbah that the world modernized in batting and we got left behind.

And Shehzad is one of the players that became a Misbah and with his selfish opening batting and wasting the opening powerplay, Pakistan fell behind other teams and is now suffering the aftermath. If you don't start something well, it's tough to transition into something well.

I think he should read OP and go through thread

 

[Slog]

Update Time:

View attachment 78439

[MENTION=102121]hafeezrocks[/MENTION]

Further updated stats as of Jan 2018

 

[Hasan123]

The longer they have played the more they have declined.

 

[Major]

So under Misbah, they got there best performance.


Talk now [MENTION=57576]MRSN[/MENTION]

 

[TeymurBlake]

WOW these averages have really painted a picture here of these two. I wonder when the management will finally move from these two.

 

[CricFan2012]

Was Misbah or Younis holding Akmal's bat for him?

These stats are created by the player, not the captain.. Bowling stats can correlate a little more because captains choose who to bowl at which stage.

 

[Sadevdesai]

Just statistics .... one can make up a Story any which way he wants !!!!!!!!

 

[coy0607]

Average batsmen.

Glorified due to social media. Neither would have been anywhere near the Pakistan team in years gone by.

By the way these stats are in ODIs I guess?

Given how many threads we see about these two, folks on this board seem a little obsessed with them, they have been largely irrelevant for years now

 

[hafizexpress]

So a certain poster says this:



I think he should read OP and go through thread

I admit I exaggerated Misbah's effect on Shehzad. His stats under Misbah are no better than his under Afridi. Misbah is definitely not the only reason for Shehzad's decline as is his own mentality and selfishness, but the period in which Shehzad played under Misbah was a period and age where most people find their feat in cricket and it's the time to nurture. That is where Shehzad was lacking a powerful leader who could take his game to the next level. I do admit though, after seeing Shehzad for the past few years, that there aren't many captains who could have changed Shehzad. His work ethic is unproductive and he is a lazy and unpassionate individual.

I didn't think of how similar his stats were to him playing under Afridi so thank you for bringing me to this.

What would you say about the overall culture of the team though? What do you think is the reason for Pakistan not advancing to modern, fast, cricket like other teams?

 

[Sunny_majoka]

Shehzad was never an attacking player he was always an average player in international cricket .

Just because we didn't have any Dasher that time. He got all the attention "andhon main kana raja"

 

[Asif321]

Pakistan are lucky they are gone for good

 

[Slog]

You often keep hearing about how Ahmed Shehzad and Umar Akmal are talents who would have made a lot of runs and had a lot of success if only they had been playing under a captain other than Misbah. One thing you hear about Shehzad especially is how he used to be an aggressive player who was made to change his game and play slowly under the influence of Misbah and prior to that was a attacking, positive batsman.

So a good way to check is how these two's records compared under captain apart from Misbah.

View attachment 63315

From this it looks like they have had their BEST years under Misbah!!!

So what I want to know is how did this myth come about and why does the impression persist that now thta Misbah is gone they will strike at 90+ with an average of 45 or sth.!

For those who are saying Shehzad's stats and output got worse after the hit on the head and he was doing great before that

 

[Slog]

Update Time:

View attachment 78439

will update this soon i guess.