Sunil Gavaskar's 36* vs MS Dhoni's knock in the 2nd ODI against England - Which was worse?

[stevewittry]

Watching MSD's knock yesterday reminded me of India's very first world cup encounter against the same opponents.

Both these knocks were bizzare and non purposeful and only synonymous with an abject surrender. While Gavaskar was never known for his big hitting abilities and a run rate of 6 rpo was considered astronomical in those days, it is not acceptable for someone like MSD- one of the greatest finishers in LOI cricket to play a knock such as this to play such a knock. Wonder if it's due to aging or loss of form or some unknown injury which is restricting his stroke play. Whatever the reason, this was totally uncharacteristic of MSD to accept defeat long before the final ball was bowled and the run rate was within manageable proportion. There was zero intent in going for the target at any stage.

Though there are no video footage available of Gavaskar's epic knock, I am guessing the knock yesterday was similar to that knock and both were similar in nature and utterly selfish and cowardice.

Which one in your opinion was more annoying to watch or there was something more annoying than these 2 ?

And before you could bring in any of Misbah's innings it must be reminded that Misbah for the most part of his career was part of a very weak Pak batting side and was battling crisis situations.

 

[Tyler Durden]

I don't understand what's this unnecessary over-reaction for yesterday's innings! An irrelevant comparison and absolutely over the top reaction. There were tons of much worse innings played by a plethora of Cricketers in the last decade but only MSD's innings gets all this unnecessary attention and random threads get created like this one.

 

[Dead Ball]

Gavaskars knock was the worst in ODI history. Nope, I can't ignore his ODI record and judge him on tests only.

That's why I strongly disagree with anyone who calls him India's greatest batsman. It will always be between Dravid and Tendulkar for me.

MS Dhoni has been bad for a couple of years, yesterday's knock was poor but nowhere as bad as Gavaskar's. Dhoni is riding on past glory now.

 

[Darkrai]

Considering the situation of the match Dhoni's inning was the worst i've ever seen, he was even booed by the crowed.

 

[Ab Fan]

I think, I may be wrong but as per some news, Gavaskar deliberately played that knock because there were some feuds going around between him and team management or someone else inside the team. It was an utterly selfish knock played by Gavaskar just to send some sort of message inside the team management.

MSD inning was uncharacteristic and strange as well because he pretty much gave up around 30 overs of the match and went for batting practice. That's as baffling as it gets. It is tough to say why he went that way, perhaps looking for some batting practice but that's a bizzare thing to do in an official ODI match. Some people like to treat bilaterals as kind-off warm-up meaningless matches but that's clear unprofessionalism.

Concluding things, it was unprofessionalism from both end irrespective of whatever results would have come and whatever MSD die-hard fans or rather these kids say because I am sure the men would be embarrassed with this kind of unprofessionalism.

 

[InziRules]

I really enjoyed Dhoni's knock.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

It was a JAM ODI yesterday, Gavaskar's was in a WC and way more pathetic because he played that way deliberately as protest.

 

[El Generico]

It was a JAM ODI yesterday, Gavaskar's was in a WC and way more pathetic because he played that way deliberately as protest.

Who/what was he protesting?

 

[stevewittry]

I don't understand what's this unnecessary over-reaction for yesterday's innings! An irrelevant comparison and absolutely over the top reaction. There were tons of much worse innings played by a plethora of Cricketers in the last decade but only MSD's innings gets all this unnecessary attention and random threads get created like this one.

Why are we trying to justify his knock yesterday by calling this a random thread ?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Gavaskar played it intentionally Dhoni didn't because he has lost his hand eye co-ordination. This comparison doesn't make any sense.

 

[msb314]

Watching MSD's knock yesterday reminded me of India's very first world cup encounter against the same opponents.

Both these knocks were bizzare and non purposeful and only synonymous with an abject surrender. While Gavaskar was never known for his big hitting abilities and a run rate of 6 rpo was considered astronomical in those days, it is not acceptable for someone like MSD- one of the greatest finishers in LOI cricket to play a knock such as this to play such a knock. Wonder if it's due to aging or loss of form or some unknown injury which is restricting his stroke play. Whatever the reason, this was totally uncharacteristic of MSD to accept defeat long before the final ball was bowled and the run rate was within manageable proportion. There was zero intent in going for the target at any stage.

Though there are no video footage available of Gavaskar's epic knock, I am guessing the knock yesterday was similar to that knock and both were similar in nature and utterly selfish and cowardice.

Which one in your opinion was more annoying to watch or there was something more annoying than these 2 ?

And before you could bring in any of Misbah's innings it must be reminded that Misbah for the most part of his career was part of a very weak Pak batting side and was battling crisis situations.

Sorry buddy but there is no comparison.

Gavaskar's knock came in a WC match whilst Dhoni's knock game in a meaningless ODI series.

Every WC match and result is significant - esp if its not a dead rubber.

 

[Sam99]

If we are just looking at one knock of dhoni then gavaskar was poor for those 36 runs but if we are looking past 5 years of dhoni compared to gavaskar's carrier then i would say dhoni has been more worse. In gavaskar's era it was all about tests and odi's was a quite new format and mostly people had low average and strike rate (except few) because they didn't give much importance to it. I feel only after 80s odis got more popular. For Dhoni in today's world of such easy batting conditions and so many resources available + so many t20 matches it's just not acceptable that he is repeating the same thing for last 5 years. If he can't do then just simply retire if he can do then give the performance.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Gavaskars knock was the worst in ODI history. Nope, I can't ignore his ODI record and judge him on tests only.

That's why I strongly disagree with anyone who calls him India's greatest batsman. It will always be between Dravid and Tendulkar for me.

MS Dhoni has been bad for a couple of years, yesterday's knock was poor but nowhere as bad as Gavaskar's. Dhoni is riding on past glory now.

Nobody cares aboudt what you think. Gavaskar is regarded as among world's greatest test batsmen ever.

 

[giri26]

Okay before we even jump on this discussion, we will have to think about the situation and the time the innings were played in. Dhoni's innings is far worse as this happened in an era where, scores are high, pitches are flat and boundaries are short. India was expected to chase down this target at the start of the innings and rightfully so as India does have the reputation of a good batting side.

Gavaskar's innings came in 1975, India played their first ODI in 1974. Had just played 2 ODI's before this game against England. ODI's were in the infancy during those days and India wasn't a great team during that time. There is no excuse for Gavaskar to not even try but again, those were the times when Sunil Gavaskar was playing Tests and batting this way and India hadn't taken to ODI cricket like the other teams of the world. India was a poor ODI side, they did not win a single game in the 1979 WC and won only one game in 1975 and that too against East Africa. The team fortune turned around after Kapil and few others made the team who were more suited to the shorter format.

Here we are talking about second ranked ODI team in the World. A batsman who is a legend in this format with 10,000 ODI runs at the middle. This for sure is a poorer innings. I wouldn't be harsh calling it as pathetic as there are sometimes when a batsman can just not score runs but again in the scheme of things, it was a bad innings as 80 runs or 150 runs loss does not matter in bi-lateral series. I still remember wondering why Inzamam is struggling so much to get the ball off the square against India in the 1999 WC when they were chasing only 220 odd to win. So such things happen but again Dhoni could have just gone after the bowling. Even if he had gotten out for 16 of 10 balls, people would have been mad at him.

We cannot compare this innings to a rookie Indian team of 1975 who were not suited to the format. A team which had just 2 ODI's under their belt and had no player who was capable of scoring quick runs.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Even if Dhoni had played aggressively, the match was already a lost cause by then. But yes, it was a pretty poor knock from Dhoni

 

[Third_Umpire]

So many here knocking down Legend Dhoni, as if he's solely responsible for the loss yesterday. I thought us Pakistani fans were dramatic and knee-jerky. Indian fans are no better.

 

[Robert]

Gavaskar because I feel he was making a point.

Age may have caught up with Dhoni. It’s sad to see Indians turning on a sporting hero like this.

 

[Xoib]

is it me or there is over reaction to Dhoni's knock he was clearly trying to keep his end secured while Pandaya was settling in and getting ready to tee off Pandaya he got out at the wrong time. Yadav was send to pinch hit got out next ball. The game was all but over by then so Dhoni decided to settle in to batting practice.

 

[Dead Ball]

Nobody cares aboudt what you think. Gavaskar is regarded as among world's greatest test batsmen ever.

Was and will always be remembered as a rubbish ODI batsman.

 

[stevewittry]

Was and will always be remembered as a rubbish ODI batsman.

Though Dhoni is the better ODI batsman, in my opinion his innings in the 2nd ODI at Lord's was worse and a total disrepute to the team and to this game of cricket.

Gavaskar was never a good ODI batsman and more so he was never expected to score at about 7 rpo throughout the innings when ODI cricket was at it's infancy and Gavaskar himself was making his ODI debut with no prior experience of this format. 7 rpo in the 70s was a daunting target more than the 480 odd which England scored lately against Aussies. Hence though a critic of Gavaskar, I can give him the benefit of doubt considering the circumstances then. With Dhoni no such excuse.

 

[in_cutter]

Watching MSD's knock yesterday reminded me of India's very first world cup encounter against the same opponents.

Both these knocks were bizzare and non purposeful and only synonymous with an abject surrender. While Gavaskar was never known for his big hitting abilities and a run rate of 6 rpo was considered astronomical in those days, it is not acceptable for someone like MSD- one of the greatest finishers in LOI cricket to play a knock such as this to play such a knock. Wonder if it's due to aging or loss of form or some unknown injury which is restricting his stroke play. Whatever the reason, this was totally uncharacteristic of MSD to accept defeat long before the final ball was bowled and the run rate was within manageable proportion. There was zero intent in going for the target at any stage.

Though there are no video footage available of Gavaskar's epic knock, I am guessing the knock yesterday was similar to that knock and both were similar in nature and utterly selfish and cowardice.

Which one in your opinion was more annoying to watch or there was something more annoying than these 2 ?

And before you could bring in any of Misbah's innings it must be reminded that Misbah for the most part of his career was part of a very weak Pak batting side and was battling crisis situations.

What?! Hilarious! There is NO comparison with Gavaskar’s innings man.

 

[stevewittry]

What?! Hilarious! There is NO comparison with Gavaskar’s innings man.

Does anyone on this forum have links to clips of Gavaskar's epic chase?

 

[Sadevdesai]

Gavaskar's innings was intentional .... Dhoni's innings was required !!!!!!!

 

[The Googly]

Gavaskars 36* off 60 overs was the worst and most selfish knock in odi history. Period.

 

[Napa]

Watching MSD's knock yesterday reminded me of India's very first world cup encounter against the same opponents.

Both these knocks were bizzare and non purposeful and only synonymous with an abject surrender. While Gavaskar was never known for his big hitting abilities and a run rate of 6 rpo was considered astronomical in those days, it is not acceptable for someone like MSD- one of the greatest finishers in LOI cricket to play a knock such as this to play such a knock. Wonder if it's due to aging or loss of form or some unknown injury which is restricting his stroke play. Whatever the reason, this was totally uncharacteristic of MSD to accept defeat long before the final ball was bowled and the run rate was within manageable proportion. There was zero intent in going for the target at any stage.

Though there are no video footage available of Gavaskar's epic knock, I am guessing the knock yesterday was similar to that knock and both were similar in nature and utterly selfish and cowardice.

Which one in your opinion was more annoying to watch or there was something more annoying than these 2 ?

And before you could bring in any of Misbah's innings it must be reminded that Misbah for the most part of his career was part of a very weak Pak batting side and was battling crisis situations.

I would say that the worst was the 1996 Inzamam-Malik-Miandad trifecta of 12(20)-38(50)-38(64) which managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory when at one point in the innings the asking rate was down to 5 with around 35 overs to go, simply because it was a WC knockout match whereas Dhoni's and Gavaskar's knocks are essentially irrelevant.

Runner-up would be the duo YK-Misbah's 13(32)-56(76), once again s-d-f-t-j-o-v in yet another WC knockout game
[MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION] [MENTION=142736]English August[/MENTION]

 

[lehen]

Worst inning in the history of cricket by Dhoni. No one comes close

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

Misbah > Dhoni (at the twilight of their respective careers)

 

[idrizzy]

Okay before we even jump on this discussion, we will have to think about the situation and the time the innings were played in. Dhoni's innings is far worse as this happened in an era where, scores are high, pitches are flat and boundaries are short. India was expected to chase down this target at the start of the innings and rightfully so as India does have the reputation of a good batting side.

Gavaskar's innings came in 1975, India played their first ODI in 1974. Had just played 2 ODI's before this game against England. ODI's were in the infancy during those days and India wasn't a great team during that time. There is no excuse for Gavaskar to not even try but again, those were the times when Sunil Gavaskar was playing Tests and batting this way and India hadn't taken to ODI cricket like the other teams of the world. India was a poor ODI side, they did not win a single game in the 1979 WC and won only one game in 1975 and that too against East Africa. The team fortune turned around after Kapil and few others made the team who were more suited to the shorter format.

Here we are talking about second ranked ODI team in the World. A batsman who is a legend in this format with 10,000 ODI runs at the middle. This for sure is a poorer innings. I wouldn't be harsh calling it as pathetic as there are sometimes when a batsman can just not score runs but again in the scheme of things, it was a bad innings as 80 runs or 150 runs loss does not matter in bi-lateral series. I still remember wondering why Inzamam is struggling so much to get the ball off the square against India in the 1999 WC when they were chasing only 220 odd to win. So such things happen but again Dhoni could have just gone after the bowling. Even if he had gotten out for 16 of 10 balls, people would have been mad at him.

We cannot compare this innings to a rookie Indian team of 1975 who were not suited to the format. A team which had just 2 ODI's under their belt and had no player who was capable of scoring quick runs.

Wish there was a like function or a thumbs up cos this would get my vote

 

[Tusker]

I would say that the worst was the 1996 Inzamam-Malik-Miandad trifecta of 12(20)-38(50)-38(64) which managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory when at one point in the innings the asking rate was down to 5 with around 35 overs to go, simply because it was a WC knockout match whereas Dhoni's and Gavaskar's knocks are essentially irrelevant.

Runner-up would be the duo YK-Misbah's 13(32)-56(76), once again s-d-f-t-j-o-v in yet another WC knockout game
[MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION] [MENTION=142736]English August[/MENTION]

sorry for the very delayed response but I will one up this - Miandad in the 1992 WC match vs India - 40(116) chasing a mammoth 216 runs in 50 overs ...

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...dia-vs-pakistan-16th-match-world-cup-1991-92/