Swedish AWACS in focus again after PAF used it against IAF, India registered diplomatic protest: ET

[Lonewarrior]

First of all , its ET point of view, we dont know for sure what AWACS System & SOW PAF were using.

NEW DELHI: India had registered a diplomatic protest over the sale of Swedish early warning aircraft to Pakistan and had objected strongly to the transfer of South African long range bombs, both of which were used to target military installations in India after the Balakot terror camp strike last month.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/swedish-awacs-in-focus-again-after-paf-used-it-against-india/articleshow/68590492.cms

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Didn't they use like some super-sonic-extremely-smart-potential-science-miracle israeli spice bomb thingy that once dropped would ask the people if they r terrorist and then eliminate them and if someone said no they'd not harm them??

What they complaining about??

 

[Lonewarrior]

Didn't they use like some super-sonic-extremely-smart-potential-science-miracle israeli spice bomb thingy that once dropped would ask the people if they r terrorist and then eliminate them and if someone said no they'd not harm them??

What they complaining about??

Basically crying Internationally and asking everyone to listen what suppa duppa pawwa India is saying and requesting not to sell military equipment to Pakistan, becoz pakistanis will do wonder if they gt hands on the top military equipment..

 

[Pakistanian]

Why are they crying lol, they got humiliated by Pakistan and and are now whining about how Pakistan may have used weapons that they bought . This is just childish.

 

[Zhasan]

Since Swedish AWACS have gotten Indians chaddis in a huge twist, with this latest protest they've now confirmed their sponsorship, support and launch of the terrorist attack on PNS Mehran where two ERIEYE AWACS were specifically targeted.

 

[Syed1]

India is acting like that kid who after being punished by teacher starts crying "leken madam woh bhi tou baat kar raha tha"

 

[Syed1]

For a very peaceful country, Sweden does have very high tech war toys. Their Gripen is probably THE best or one of the best 4th gen plane. Then they have the AWACS amongst other things.

 

[cric_man]

Since Swedish AWACS have gotten Indians chaddis in a huge twist, with this latest protest they've now confirmed their sponsorship, support and launch of the terrorist attack on PNS Mehran where two ERIEYE AWACS were specifically targeted.

PNS Mehran had P-3C Orions (equally valuable anti sub and ELINT platform) targeted with 2 destroyed and another damaged. In a separate attack, terrorists targeted PAF Minhas (Kamra) that housed the Erieye with 1 destroyed another damaged.

 

[cric_man]

For a very peaceful country, Sweden does have very high tech war toys. Their Gripen is probably THE best or one of the best 4th gen plane. Then they have the AWACS amongst other things.

I think it is due to their constitutional requirement that all defense equipment be made/developed in Sweden. They are technically neutral like Finland but exist in a very hot geography b/w NATO and Russia.

Saab has built very unique warplanes that were ahead of their time warplanes since 50s Draken > Viggen > Gripen

RBS 70/23 SAM , RBS 15 AntiShip missile, Gotland class submarines which apparently sunk a US career in exercises last year with US Navy. The Strv 103 2 person turretless tank which is a very unique design and very hard to target because of its low profile.
Yes they make it all, however at a very high cost (R&D and a very small production run).

 

[Zhasan]

PNS Mehran had P-3C Orions (equally valuable anti sub and ELINT platform) targeted with 2 destroyed and another damaged. In a separate attack, terrorists targeted PAF Minhas (Kamra) that housed the Erieye with 1 destroyed another damaged.

You are right, I stand corrected. The planning and target selection had to be done in India. Boy how incompetent and absolute failure Kiani's tenure was and on top of that he was given extension.

 

[IAJ]

For a very peaceful country, Sweden does have very high tech war toys. Their Gripen is probably THE best or one of the best 4th gen plane. Then they have the AWACS amongst other things.

They have good vechicles as well; Saab and Volvo (these have probably got New owners now), Ericsson mobile Phones ( now Sony Ericsson) and they have IKEA. Söta bror [MENTION=133726]GoUgandaCranes[/MENTION]

 

[Syed1]

They have good vechicles as well; Saab and Volvo (these have probably got New owners now), Ericsson mobile Phones ( now Sony Ericsson) and they have IKEA. Söta bror [MENTION=133726]GoUgandaCranes[/MENTION]

You forgot to mention Koenigsegg




Very impressive for such a tiny country with little natural resources to be so resourceful...... and then there is us. Every weather, abundance of natural resource, available large talented human resource. Yet we are still producing tin daba technology for the most part.

 

[Pete Rose]

They are crying with an objective - (they've been whining about H4's to South Africa as well) it is their hope to deny Pakistan access to tech. This extends to the Klimov R93 - the russian design engine that china provides for the jf17.

Remains to be seen if these countries do anything about it.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

For a very peaceful country, Sweden does have very high tech war toys. Their Gripen is probably THE best or one of the best 4th gen plane. Then they have the AWACS amongst other things.

Sweden is not a small country in terms of technology at all if anything Sweden's one of the tech leaders in so many areas and some of them are

1. Green energy and sustainable growth
2. Innovation in design and the way things are done (Ikea is just an example, the country is a goldmine for doing things innovatively and Swedish footprint is present in many many companies across the world)
3. Global development (the country spends roughly ten percent of it's GDP as aid to support upcoming economies and interesting project
4. The war toys. There hasn't been a war and the Swedish Army is practically just a relic of the past but the research and development wing of this insitution is beyond belief.

They have good vechicles as well; Saab and Volvo (these have probably got New owners now), Ericsson mobile Phones ( now Sony Ericsson) and they have IKEA. Söta bror [MENTION=133726]GoUgandaCranes[/MENTION]

Never forget spotify, we have your data and we'll make you listen to the songs of our choice and our choice alone. And also Skype.

 

[the Great Khan]

More rhona dhona. The Swedish provided us the AWACS for the explicit reason of defending ourselves. that is what they are for. And we have used them as they are to be used. To defend our airspace. They didnt provide us with the option to purchase the gripen because they didnt want it used to attack India. But they had no problem providing us with the AWACs.

The indians also have AWACS but as we have seen the hype around israeli technology has been truly just that. hype.

let them cry, we have Chinese AWACS zdk09 and we have developed something called Link 17 that allows our F16's to talk to the these AWACs..

 

[Stewie]

Sweden is not a small country in terms of technology at all if anything Sweden's one of the tech leaders in so many areas and some of them are

1. Green energy and sustainable growth
2. Innovation in design and the way things are done (Ikea is just an example, the country is a goldmine for doing things innovatively and Swedish footprint is present in many many companies across the world)
3. Global development (the country spends roughly ten percent of it's GDP as aid to support upcoming economies and interesting project
4. The war toys. There hasn't been a war and the Swedish Army is practically just a relic of the past but the research and development wing of this insitution is beyond belief.



Never forget spotify, we have your data and we'll make you listen to the songs of our choice and our choice alone. And also Skype.

All I know is IKEA furniture is over priced and utter crap!

Hahah..

 

[srh]

its like India want to hit Pakistan and also does not want Pakistan to defend itself.

 

[Pete Rose]

Sweden is not a small country in terms of technology at all if anything Sweden's one of the tech leaders in so many areas and some of them are

1. Green energy and sustainable growth
2. Innovation in design and the way things are done (Ikea is just an example, the country is a goldmine for doing things innovatively and Swedish footprint is present in many many companies across the world)
3. Global development (the country spends roughly ten percent of it's GDP as aid to support upcoming economies and interesting project
4. The war toys. There hasn't been a war and the Swedish Army is practically just a relic of the past but the research and development wing of this insitution is beyond belief.



Never forget spotify, we have your data and we'll make you listen to the songs of our choice and our choice alone. And also Skype.

Nordic noir as well.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

All I know is IKEA furniture is over priced and utter crap!

Hahah..

The reason why Ikea is popular in Sweden and the Nordics is that it produces cheap furniture that is very easy to transfer from point A to point B and move into buildings that have small doors.

It's not crap, it's the fastfood of furniture that serves a very specific purpose and I've no idea why is it expensive, it's super cheap, whichever country you are in is conning you

 

[CricVet]

The countries selling weapons to Pakistan will not stop selling anything for Indian gripe. They know how to do business. They'll troll Indians to buy better or same equipments in larger quantity to make more moolah. Fortunately for Pakistan, these countries can't sell personnel to India to run these tools effectively.

 

[cricketjoshila]

More rhona dhona. The Swedish provided us the AWACS for the explicit reason of defending ourselves. that is what they are for. And we have used them as they are to be used. To defend our airspace. They didnt provide us with the option to purchase the gripen because they didnt want it used to attack India. But they had no problem providing us with the AWACs.

The indians also have AWACS but as we have seen the hype around israeli technology has been truly just that. hype.

let them cry, we have Chinese AWACS zdk09 and we have developed something called Link 17 that allows our F16's to talk to the these AWACs..

Lol. Israeli Phalcon Awacs are hype? Thats why Chinese were dying to buy them and US had to get in and stop that transaction?

Of all people you should not be making this statement.

Except the Americans no one makes better Awacs than the Israelis.

A message has been sent to SAAB, you cant be bidding for a 20bn contract in India,while your equipment is used to attack India.You have to make certain adjustments.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Lol. Israeli Phalcon Awacs are hype? Thats why Chinese were dying to buy them and US had to get in and stop that transaction?

Of all people you should not be making this statement.

Except the Americans no one makes better Awacs than the Israelis.

A message has been sent to SAAB, you cant be bidding for a 20bn contract in India,while your equipment is used to attack India.You have to make certain adjustments.

who was the aggressor ?

 

[the Great Khan]

Lol. Israeli Phalcon Awacs are hype? Thats why Chinese were dying to buy them and US had to get in and stop that transaction?

Of all people you should not be making this statement.

Except the Americans no one makes better Awacs than the Israelis.

A message has been sent to SAAB, you cant be bidding for a 20bn contract in India,while your equipment is used to attack India.You have to make certain adjustments.

AWACs were not used to attack india, they were used to defend Pakistan. India cant keep going off crying to every defence supplier just because they have proven to be so incompetent at defending themselves. It is frankly quite embarrassing.

With regards to the Phalcon, there are only really two conclusions, the equipment was jammed and proved to be inadequate, or the operators of the equipment were incompetent. I prefer to assume it was the first one but it seems you are admitting it is the second?

The fact is the Isreali AWACS failed. Isreali air defence systems failed. Isreali avionics failed. Personally we would prefer you keep wasting money on their garbage so we can jam it all over again the next time.

 

[cricketjoshila]

AWACs were not used to attack india, they were used to defend Pakistan. India cant keep going off crying to every defence supplier just because they have proven to be so incompetent at defending themselves. It is frankly quite embarrassing.

With regards to the Phalcon, there are only really two conclusions, the equipment was jammed and proved to be inadequate, or the operators of the equipment were incompetent. I prefer to assume it was the first one but it seems you are admitting it is the second?

The fact is the Isreali AWACS failed. Isreali air defence systems failed. Isreali avionics failed. Personally we would prefer you keep wasting money on their garbage so we can jam it all over again the next time.

Strategy is to choke the weapons supply of Pakistan. Already US refused to sell the F16s. Russia wont sell anything until they want that equipment out of the Indian market. French and most other european equipment is very expensive. If SAAB can be arm twisted into not selling or selling water downed versions of weapons to Pakistan, pakistani choice gets limited to the chinese.

No Israeli AWAC was in the air during the PAF intrusion on 27th feb. The Indian Netra Awac detected the PAF fighters and Indian fighters intercepted the PAF fighters.

The Mig 21 was shot down inside the Pakistani airspace not inside India.

So how did India failed to defend itself?

Infact IAF went far inside Pakistan airspace on 26th feb balakote bombing.The pakistani radars failed to pick them up or were jammed.

PAF fired AMRAAMS they got jammed by IAF fighters.No indian fighter was hit until one crossed into Pakistan airspace.

Problem is Pakistan has little option in buying, either its untested copied Chinese equipment or very expensive european equipment,that PA cannot afford in big numbers.

Jam israeli phalcons, matlab kuch bhi khan bhai.

 

[the Great Khan]

Strategy is to choke the weapons supply of Pakistan. Already US refused to sell the F16s. Russia wont sell anything until they want that equipment out of the Indian market. French and most other european equipment is very expensive. If SAAB can be arm twisted into not selling or selling water downed versions of weapons to Pakistan, pakistani choice gets limited to the chinese.

it doesnt matter. they have boycotted us for years. We don't need them anymore. The Block 3 and the F16's can keep us going for a few more years. the immediate threat from the IAF has been reduced considerably since the 27th as we have damaged your conventional deterrence. The blck 3 and teh blk 52's will be enough for now and with the PL15 we will have a long range BVR too.

No Israeli AWAC was in the air during the PAF intrusion on 27th feb. The Indian Netra Awac detected the PAF fighters and Indian fighters intercepted the PAF fighters.

"they didnt detect the strike package until it was too late. The SU's and the Migs couldnt get firing solutions. Just read up. This shows they were jammed to hell. They were , according to your sources, outranged and then outgunned as they were fired upon. And according to our sources two were shot down in this dog fight while you failed to shoot down a single aircraft. What were the SU's doing? yes you evade but your top cover should be locking on and taking out the enemy. the fact they couldnt says alot.

The Mig 21 was shot down inside the Pakistani airspace not inside India.

yes after an ambush. He went up to intercept, after the strike package had completed their mission. Then while scanning for targets (why couldnt he see anything as the sky was full of fighters?) he was shot down. he didnt even see it..proves there was heavy jamming in the area. Your radars had targets all voer them. To teh extent you shot down your own helicopter. Your friend and foe systems failed. Youra ir defence failed to differentiate between enemies and friends..they were spoofed..

So how did India failed to defend itself?


I explained above. Your air defences failed. you lost two confirmed craft and one unconfirmed. you failed to shoot down a single enemy aircraft. Not one. you had the sky full of SU's and Mig's with R77 and R73 BVR missiles. Why did they not even lock on and fire? because they couldnt from the mouth of your captured pilot himself.

Infact IAF went far inside Pakistan airspace on 26th feb balakote bombing.The pakistani radars failed to pick them up or were jammed.

nope. they were picked up but fired their SOW(stand off spice bombs after they came in about 5kms which takes about 60 seconds in a fighter jet. You expect this in areas like Kashmir. our rules of engagement meant we were not allowed to fire. just escort out. Which we did. We are in peace time and had to assess the damage before making a move. if we had fired then and there you would have had more media mileage. We overcame that hurdle and the results are there to be seen. Your intelligence also failed since the madrassa had children in it. it wasnt a camp. It may have been years ago hence old intelligence. No doubt we will look at why we let the planes get so close but again the ROE's would have prevented us from shooting either way. Airspace violations are not uncommon on the LOC.

PAF fired AMRAAMS they got jammed by IAF fighters.No indian fighter was hit until one crossed into Pakistan airspace.

There is no real evidence for this but if this is the case then lends more credence to the fact we would have taken out a SU. Also it is common for pilots who are far away to fire their AMRAAMS to prevent further action as part of manouvers. As for teh crossing into the LOC. They were sent to intercept the strike package after it had carried out its mission. They crossed the LOC, were ambushed and were shot down. He crossed the LOC becasue he was jammed to the hilt. Didn't know where he was exactly. His top cover which was provided by the SU's was taken out and then the next lot were fired upon too (according to you guys).

Problem is Pakistan has little option in buying, either its untested copied Chinese equipment or very expensive european equipment,that PA cannot afford in big numbers.

Its tested equipment now as Abhinandan can attest. The ZDK AWACS proved to be excellent, link 17 worked to its best too. the SD10 hit its targets ane the AMRAAMS are giving your PM nightmares. Mission accomplished on a budget.

Jam israeli phalcons, matlab kuch bhi khan bhai.

Your SAMS are also isreali..they hit air..oh no they wait they hit your own helicopter..by all intents and independant analysis your air defences failed..you cant run from this..If it happened to us i would be livid and be demanding the airforce explain themselve..I would expect sackings and court martials..

 

[Romali_rotti]

@TGK, you keep going on about how our SU-MKI was taken out yet you just cant back up your claim. Maybe it is time you called it quits on this issue ? making you look bad here...


BTW do not respond back to my post saying things like: 'OH The MKI was indeed shot down because PAF would not reveal false information' etc lol.....

 

[abdulqadir786]

@TGK, you keep going on about how our SU-MKI was taken out yet you just cant back up your claim. Maybe it is time you called it quits on this issue ? making you look bad here...


BTW do not respond back to my post saying things like: 'OH The MKI was indeed shot down because PAF would not reveal false information' etc lol.....

What's your opinion on the issue that India shot down Pak F-16 after the report (No F-16 was shot down) that just posted today? Do you still believe your governments claim that it shot down Pak's F-16?

The reason I ask you is because you seem one of the few reasonable Indians compared to others on this forum.

 

[Romali_rotti]

What's your opinion on the issue that India shot down Pak F-16 after the report (No F-16 was shot down) that just posted today? Do you still believe your governments claim that it shot down Pak's F-16?

The reason I ask you is because you seem one of the few reasonable Indians compared to others on this forum.

Your question, I have answered multiple times. There is no evidence that a PAF F-16 was shot down, and also no proof that the air strikes killed any JEM. So in my opinion the F-16 was not taken out however there was evidence that a strike did take place in Pakistan by IAF. Due to Pakistan not allowing access into the Balakot area and India showing no evidence at this point of time that the strike was successful I am staying neutral....Initially I was off the belief that the Balakot strike only took out a few trees, however Pakistani military barring any media access into the area is very different to what they did last time when surgical strikes 1 took place, they invited media to come to the area....

 

[the Great Khan]

@TGK, you keep going on about how our SU-MKI was taken out yet you just cant back up your claim. Maybe it is time you called it quits on this issue ? making you look bad here...


BTW do not respond back to my post saying things like: 'OH The MKI was indeed shot down because PAF would not reveal false information' etc lol.....

I said its "unconfirmed".. but everything else I have said holds.

I tend to believe that we did shoot it down because if you read between the lines you can put two and two together. but even if we didnt we neutered it to make it ineffective.

If we take simply your own sides allegations, it proves the SU30 is a dud..