What's new

T20 Middle Order Comparison: Pakistan vs Top 5 Teams

Gayle_Force

Gayle_Force

Tape Ball Captain
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Runs
1,169
A quick look at where Pakistan is seriously behind the rest of the world. Below is a summary of the T20 middle order stats (SR and Averages) for the top six teams. There is alot of comments made on the openers needing to go much harder but the real issue is even if our openers go really hard and get us 60-70 runs in the power play, with middle order stats like these we will always lag behind. Alot of people say we should move Babar and Rizwan down the order but i dont understand how that helps as there is no way Babar and Rizwan can match the performance of other teams as you need big hitters at that stage. The worrying sign is that when we look at our domestic cricket we dont see any player providing these kind of numbers even at domestic levels. PCB rally has their work cutout or Pakistan will always have to rely on individual brilliances and qudrat to win matches and tournaments.


India:

SKY: Avg - 39.88 SR - 177.26
Hardik: Avg 25.4 SR 148.5
DK: Avg: 28.4 SR 142.9

Aus

Maxwell: Avg - 29.3 SR - 152.2
Tim David: Avg 42.1 SR 159.6
Stoinis:Avg: 27.8 SR: 140.7

Eng

Stokes: Avg - 20.1 SR:136.8
Brook: Avg - 43.3 SR - 151.5
Moeen Ali: Avg 22.8 SR 146.7

SA

Markram: Avg 41 SR 151.2
Miller: Avg - 33.6 SR - 144.7
Rossouw: Avg 30.5 SR 144.5

Pak

Iftikhar: Avg 26.4 SR 124.7
Khushdil: Avg 20.6 SR 110.8
Asif Ali: Avg 15.4 SR 136
 
The middle order players of all big teams have better strike rates than our openers :))
 
Strong advocates of the RizBar partnership think they can deflect valid criticism towards them by throwing the middle order under the bus

Not on my watch.
 
Would be good to see strike rates of Pakistan openers compared to other team openers.
 
Just not to repeat the same thing over and over again:

Pakistan's 7 players ride on Shaheen, Babar, Rizwan and Rauf's performances.

It is incredible that despite having such a pathetic middle order we still somehow manage to win games.

As soon as Babar/Rizwan fall it is up to Shaheen or Rauf to bowl a magical spell and win it.
 
shamaan said:
Would be good to see strike rates of Pakistan openers compared to other team openers.
Click to expand...

That’s asking for too much

Better to see the strike rates of Pakistan openers v openers from 6-7 years ago
 
shamaan said:
Would be good to see strike rates of Pakistan openers compared to other team openers.
Click to expand...

Sure:

India

KL Rahul: Avg 39.7 SR 140.4
Rohit Sharma: Avg: 32.2 SR: 140.7

Aus

Aaron Finch: Avg 34.7 SR 145.8
Rohit Sharma: Avg: 33.5SR: 140.9

Eng
Jos Butler: Avg 32.8 SR142.6
Alex hales: Avg 30.1 SR 137

SA

De Kock: Avg 31.7 SR 133.4
Bavuma: Avg 24.4 SR 117.8

Pak

Babar Azam: Avg: 43.4 SR 130
Mohammad Rizwan: Avg 52.5 SR 128.6

There is definitely gap here as well but not as significant as the the gap between our middle order vs ROW.
 
Bavuma shouldn't be part of their side. They have better players than him for T20. By the way Rohit sharma is playing for Australia too :)
 
Gayle_Force said:
Sure:

India

KL Rahul: Avg 39.7 SR 140.4
Rohit Sharma: Avg: 32.2 SR: 140.7

Aus

Aaron Finch: Avg 34.7 SR 145.8
Rohit Sharma: Avg: 33.5SR: 140.9

Eng
Jos Butler: Avg 32.8 SR142.6
Alex hales: Avg 30.1 SR 137

SA

De Kock: Avg 31.7 SR 133.4
Bavuma: Avg 24.4 SR 117.8

Pak

Babar Azam: Avg: 43.4 SR 130
Mohammad Rizwan: Avg 52.5 SR 128.6

There is definitely gap here as well but not as significant as the the gap between our middle order vs ROW.
Click to expand...

Just a correction under Aus it should be David Warner not Rohit Sharma lol copy paste error
 
Think if you play 30 off 15 balls and get out thats enough in T20.

If you absolutely bat 40 balls which means around 6 overs, there is no way you can be 50 runs at that time.

Pakistan is guilty of that way too much.

The openers get in and bat for 60 balls and score 80 runs and think its a job well done.

If you bat 50 balls you must be absolutely near 90 or 100.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Think if you play 30 off 15 balls and get out thats enough in T20.

If you absolutely bat 40 balls which means around 6 overs, there is no way you can be 50 runs at that time.

Pakistan is guilty of that way too much.

The openers get in and bat for 60 balls and score 80 runs and think its a job well done.

If you bat 50 balls you must be absolutely near 90 or 100.
Click to expand...

I agree but one key aspect that we have seen in the last two series is that if our openers get out in the first 6 to 10 over than our strike rates goes down even more. Our openers have this added pressure that other teams are not facing.
 
Whatever you think about Rizwan and Babar opening, one thing which separates them from the middle order is that they can actually bat. They hit proper cricket shots, and while this might mean they don't make the most of the powerplay overs, it does mean that they score runs.

The middle over batsmen are all mostly flawed in technique, they end up hitting cross bat shots in order to hit big, and that never works long term, at least not againt quality bowlers. Haider Ali looked promising, but he has looked all at sea when they pitch it short.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Whatever you think about Rizwan and Babar opening, one thing which separates them from the middle order is that they can actually bat. They hit proper cricket shots, and while this might mean they don't make the most of the powerplay overs, it does mean that they score runs.

The middle over batsmen are all mostly flawed in technique, they end up hitting cross bat shots in order to hit big, and that never works long term, at least not againt quality bowlers. Haider Ali looked promising, but he has looked all at sea when they pitch it short.
Click to expand...

I agree. Rizwan and Babar deserve the criticism for their poor strike rates in the powerplay. But the middle order is just terrible. They are mediocre batsmen with terrible techniques and not good enough for international cricket. They have also had plenty of opportunities especially given Babar's recent failures and every time they have failed to deliver.
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
Just not to repeat the same thing over and over again:

Pakistan's 7 players ride on Shaheen, Babar, Rizwan and Rauf's performances.

It is incredible that despite having such a pathetic middle order we still somehow manage to win games.

As soon as Babar/Rizwan fall it is up to Shaheen or Rauf to bowl a magical spell and win it.
Click to expand...

Babar's performances aren't that great either. He has been extremely average in T20I's since that knock in WC vs Ind. Yes he has scored few soft runs but that too are few & far between. Real pillars of T20I's are Rizwan (although he's not of the same quality as Butler, Warner, Rohit & other openers but he seems to get the job done on some occasions), Shahdab, Shaheen & Rauf rest are utter garbage.
 
Gayle_Force said:
Yes, the quotes are from Mohammad Wasim’s interview yesterday with Geo which was pretty interesting.


He talks about Iftikhar, Khushdil, and Asif as low value impact players who he sees as coming in making a quick score but I don’t understand what impact these guys can make with a SR of 110-125.
Click to expand...

Biased show

The guy hosting works for Multan Sultans and is friends with Rizwan/Shan/Khushdil

Anything Wasim says on such shows need to be discredited!
 
Both Babar and Rizwan need to improve their SR. If it brings their average down somewhat it is fine. They will still bring more value to the team.

Their consistency is better than Indian, English and Australian openers but that is because they take more risks to maintain a high SR.

It is not difficult to score runs like Babar and Rizwan when your SR is in the 120s and your mostly playing against weakened attacks.

Any good opener would score with the same amount of consistency if they get the same license as Pakistani openers, i.e. bat at a below par SR with no accountability.

People say they bat like this because the middle-order is weak. I beg to differ - the middle-order is weak, but this is how they both bat.

They wouldn’t be doing any better if the middle-order was strong, it is just that they now have an excuse and justification for their approach.
 
The major takeaway from this thread is that SKY is an absolute superstar. Easily the best T20 batsman in the world right now. That average and SR combination is unreal.
 
Mamoon said:
Both Babar and Rizwan need to improve their SR. If it brings their average down somewhat it is fine. They will still bring more value to the team.

Their consistency is better than Indian, English and Australian openers but that is because they take more risks to maintain a high SR.

It is not difficult to score runs like Babar and Rizwan when your SR is in the 120s and your mostly playing against weakened attacks.

Any good opener would score with the same amount of consistency if they get the same license as Pakistani openers, i.e. bat at a below par SR with no accountability.

People say they bat like this because the middle-order is weak. I beg to differ - the middle-order is weak, but this is how they both bat.

They wouldn’t be doing any better if the middle-order was strong, it is just that they now have an excuse and justification for their approach.
Click to expand...

Sure Babar and Rizwan need to take their SR from 130 to 140 to match ROW and they have done that in the England series but the middle order needs to up their SR from around 120 currently to around 150+.
 
Gayle_Force said:
Sure Babar and Rizwan need to take their SR from 130 to 140 to match ROW and they have done that in the England series but the middle order needs to up their SR from around 120 currently to around 150+.
Click to expand...

For that to happen the middle order players need to look for 2 boundaries in the first 5-6 balls they face at the crease, and then build from that.

Instead, they look for 7-8 singles on the first 10 balls they face and just add more pressure on themselves
 
Rana said:
For that to happen the middle order players need to look for 2 boundaries in the first 5-6 balls they face at the crease, and then build from that.

Instead, they look for 7-8 singles on the first 10 balls they face and just add more pressure on themselves
Click to expand...

Agreed taking 7-10 balls to settle is criminal in this format whether in opening or in middle order.
 
Middle overs 6-14/15 are possibly worst utilized by Pak then any other top team (I dont have the numbers currently). Culprit is everyone from openers to middle order (Openers can be scrutinized a bit more as if they come through the PP overs they should be set to accelerate). PP scores as often talked about might not be huge but, on different surfaces the difference we will see with other teams would not be huge.

Its the middle overs I believe which Pak really lags behind and thus miraculous efforts are needed in last 4-5 to win matches and post good scores which is a big gamble every time as sometimes it just doesn't click as required.

This approach really needs to improve. Irrespective of the quality of our middle order, openers need to push in the middle overs as asking the middle order to start hitting straight away while they rotate the strike is a tough ask of the middle order. It might have worked reasonably well but, its not the approach you want to play T20I cricket in the long run as you need to make sure every aspect of the innings is given its due importance and optimal results are aimed for especially if Pak wants to consistently beat the top LOI teams. Expecting miraculous innings of 20 off 8 or so every innings from a player or two in the middle order is not something which can be replicated consistently.

Innings need to be compartmentalized and optimal results should be aimed for in every part. Leaving too much for one part (Like Pak tries with end overs) will often cause issues and inconsistencies. So Pak middle order might not be great but, expectations which management have with them to start hitting from the word go are unrealistic.
 
Last edited:
Mamoon said:
The major takeaway from this thread is that SKY is an absolute superstar. Easily the best T20 batsman in the world right now. That average and SR combination is unreal.
Click to expand...

That's it, he is going flunk in T20 WC.
 
Mamoon said:
Both Babar and Rizwan need to improve their SR. If it brings their average down somewhat it is fine. They will still bring more value to the team.

Their consistency is better than Indian, English and Australian openers but that is because they take more risks to maintain a high SR.

It is not difficult to score runs like Babar and Rizwan when your SR is in the 120s and your mostly playing against weakened attacks.

Any good opener would score with the same amount of consistency if they get the same license as Pakistani openers, i.e. bat at a below par SR with no accountability.

People say they bat like this because the middle-order is weak. I beg to differ - the middle-order is weak, but this is how they both bat.

They wouldn’t be doing any better if the middle-order was strong, it is just that they now have an excuse and justification for their approach.
Click to expand...

You are right, but of course the real issue is, they are still light years ahead of anyone in the middle order.
 
What a legendary Middle order we have Shan Iftikhar Khushdil Asif Haider when we will win the T20 WC this middle order will be in the same HOF with the likes of Xavi Iniesta Fabregas Silva Villa :))
 
Pakistan simply doesn't have top middle order players like other teams do. It is what it is. For them to improve, they will need to think carefully & strategically in order to maximize them. Too often Pakistan just sends players up to bat based on a pre game determined lineup. Other teams can afford that when they have middle order players like 140-150 SR. Pakistan cannot.

They also need to find situations for Shadab to be maximized in. He's a good batsmen and great against spin whereas someone like Asif is very poor against spin. Iftikhar isn't great at it either even though he can slap some large sixes against spinners. Pakistan need to learn to how to maximize their resources. At the end of the day, it is simply not a powerful lineup like England/India but they need to do enough to give their bowlers a chance.
 
The boundaries are HUGE in Australia. Our feeble, technique-less, energy-less, and passion-less middle order needs to play “smart” (lol, yeah right), and forget hitting fours n sixes. They should just play singles n doubles for a few overs to save their wickets and hope that Asif and Nawaz may click to add some value-able runs to bring the total score to 165ish.
And give our strong bowling line to defend it.
 
Colorblind Genius said:
The boundaries are HUGE in Australia. Our feeble, technique-less, energy-less, and passion-less middle order needs to play “smart” (lol, yeah right), and forget hitting fours n sixes. They should just play singles n doubles for a few overs to save their wickets and hope that Asif and Nawaz may click to add some value-able runs to bring the total score to 165ish.
And give our strong bowling line to defend it.
Click to expand...

Don’t worry

Our boys will turn 2s into 4s with super fit running

We should aim for 2s, 3s as this is within our capacity. We shouldn’t try hitting boundaries because we will miss most of the shots and the ones with do connect can only give us 4 maximum anyways
 
Probably going to enter this tournament with no chance to an outside chance down to our bowlers if SSA plays.

India, WI, Eng, Aus, SA, are tournament favorites above us. Tied with SL probably.
 
<a href="https://ibb.co/1mzQH7m"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/Js3tXms/7-FE2907-D-D943-4-EFB-8-B06-86-EE42714573.png" alt="7-FE2907-D-D943-4-EFB-8-B06-86-EE42714573" border="0"></a>
 
Match starts at 1:30 PM IST, and ends by 5 PM. At least, you guys can save both time and energy.
 
The fact that the OP actually thinks pakistan has a middle order in T20?

its pretty much a tail that starts at 3.

you look at any other Top side there middle order is capable of scoring big 50+ or 100s from that position in T20 games.

pakistan tail enders hit 1 boundary and play 6 dot balls and get out.
 
If South Africa do away with the quota system and only select on merit they would be a top t20 side. Bavuma is occupying opener slot with stats worthy of being a Pak batsman. Has no business batting in that lineup.
 
Suleiman said:
If South Africa do away with the quota system and only select on merit they would be a top t20 side. Bavuma is occupying opener slot with stats worthy of being a Pak batsman. Has no business batting in that lineup.
Click to expand...

Exactly

They can easily make Rabada or Van Dussen captain and play Reeza Hendricks as the opener instead
 
QDQ
Hendricks
RVD
Roussow
Stubbs
Miller
Phelu
Rabada
Mahraj
Nortje
Parnell

I’m not sure if I’ve got the quota right here but it’s a pretty strong team this
 
Amjid Javed said:
The fact that the OP actually thinks pakistan has a middle order in T20?

its pretty much a tail that starts at 3.

you look at any other Top side there middle order is capable of scoring big 50+ or 100s from that position in T20 games.

pakistan tail enders hit 1 boundary and play 6 dot balls and get out.
Click to expand...


Haha I am just writing the tag given to them by PCB, Mohammad Wasim Jr is also called an 'all-rounder' by our management but bats at number 10. On that note Shadab has a better strike rate than most of our our 'middle order' yet he is rarely sent up the order.
 
Gayle_Force said:
Haha I am just writing the tag given to them by PCB, Mohammad Wasim Jr is also called an 'all-rounder' by our management but bats at number 10. On that note Shadab has a better strike rate than most of our our 'middle order' yet he is rarely sent up the order.
Click to expand...

excellent point the PCB like to give our players Tags they dont merit. We dont have middle order batsmen.

similarly Fake all rounders like nawaz and wasim Jnr. But when you have a clueless chairmen of selectors this is what happens.
 
Mamoon said:
The major takeaway from this thread is that SKY is an absolute superstar. Easily the best T20 batsman in the world right now. That average and SR combination is unreal.
Click to expand...

But you claim bilateral performances are soft runs, and only performances in tournament knockouts count? Also weren’t you arguing the other day that Babar is not a top player because he hasn’t performed vs India in high-pressure game? SKY bottled against Pak in 3 games, so are you gonna wait or are you making exceptions…
 
atomberg said:
<a href="https://ibb.co/1mzQH7m"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/Js3tXms/7-FE2907-D-D943-4-EFB-8-B06-86-EE42714573.png" alt="7-FE2907-D-D943-4-EFB-8-B06-86-EE42714573" border="0"></a>
Click to expand...

Look at that bugger KL Rahul. He is our rizbab
 
Farabi said:
But you claim bilateral performances are soft runs, and only performances in tournament knockouts count? Also weren’t you arguing the other day that Babar is not a top player because he hasn’t performed vs India in high-pressure game? SKY bottled against Pak in 3 games, so are you gonna wait or are you making exceptions…
Click to expand...

Babar bottled against India in his first 5 ODIs compared to SKY who failed in 3 T20IS which involves high risk approch. If he fails in the next tournament, he won't be called a top player though.
 
Another collective failure of the middle order. None of Iftikhar, Haider or Asif could manage to clear the boundary
 
AamchiMumbaikar said:
Look at that bugger KL Rahul. He is our rizbab
Click to expand...


Guy who scored a 50 in the first 2.3 overs of a match is choosing to be selfish (against Boult & Shami). I understand if he has limitations. But he is en elite stroke player. But bats like Manish pandey.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

P
Modern ODI/T20I approach : Top 4 Teams vs Pakistan
Replies
6
Views
1K
The Viper
The Viper
Back
Top