Talented batsmen in Pakistan need the same sort of backing that Virat Kohli has got from the BCCI

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Kohli has beeen out of form and doing very bad for more than a year now. Failures in consecutive series. His last big series was ages ago against South Africa. But even with dis deres no chatter of him getting dropped. No pressure on his place. Because that’s what you do with special talents. You back them because you know they will come good.

Many kudos to BCCI and Indian team management. They know players can go thru bad times. But class remains and comes out top.

On the other hand our board and coaches like Waqar yunus drop equally talented batsmen who have history of dominating australia and new zealand in test series on first sign of failure just because they have personal agendas. And it wasn’t even failure. Just an ok series in WI. Still averages 40+ in tests.

No wonder India is near or at top of rankings always and Pakistan is in lower half... jaisi karni waisi bharni

 

[Varun]

'Talent' is not a word used often in Indian cricket, unless in a semi-derogatory manner like Rohit.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Talent isn't the right word here.
He was the best batsman in the world at one point of time, ypu can't drop him so easily.
Secondly even though he is in a bad patch of form he is still coming up with fifties every other match. Believe me i have seen worse patches, Sachin had nearly 3 or 4 bad patches like these, Dravid too.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Agree with you

Ahmed Shehzad & Umar Akmal both needed to be backed in tests

Instead Pakistan chose to invest in Shan Masood and Asad Shafiq & both flopped

 

[Shafi]

Who are these talented batsmen in Pakistan? Apart from Babar who is far inferior to Kohli, Rohit....most of them are average if not rubbish!!!

 

[Mamoon]

Kohli is levels above any batsman Pakistan has ever produced.

If Pakistan ever develops the capacity of producing a batsman of Kohli’s level, he would also get a very long rope and full support.

 

[pillionrider]

If Kohli gets a duck for the next 20 innings, he will not be dropped.

That's how many ATG-level knocks he's played across formats. Which is relevant considering he's not 40 years old.

Some Pakistanis act as if the only reason Indian batsmen are great is because of the BCCI If a Pakistani had played even 1/4 as many ATG-level knocks, there'd be a thread-a-day here on him.

 

[angrypathan]

Babar Azam was given plenty of backing when he averaged in the 20s early in his test career.

 

[Rana]

Mohammad Rizwan was forced to perform when he wasn’t getting dropped for his many average performances post Sarfaraz axe.

It’s not like the PCB don’t know how to do things, they will do them for the reasons that will suit them best.

 

[Savak]

Anyone who meets the eye test will get backing, problem is very few Pakistani batsmen meet the eye test.

 

[OMB]

Kohli has beeen out of form and doing very bad for more than a year now. Failures in consecutive series. His last big series was ages ago against South Africa. But even with dis deres no chatter of him getting dropped. No pressure on his place. Because that’s what you do with special talents. You back them because you know they will come good.

Many kudos to BCCI and Indian team management. They know players can go thru bad times. But class remains and comes out top.

On the other hand our board and coaches like Waqar yunus drop equally talented batsmen who have history of dominating australia and new zealand in test series on first sign of failure just because they have personal agendas. And it wasn’t even failure. Just an ok series in WI. Still averages 40+ in tests.

No wonder India is near or at top of rankings always and Pakistan is in lower half... jaisi karni waisi bharni

I agree with you 100% here. True that eveyone should be measured against performance but certain times patience is required as a strategy decision. Kohli has earned that leeway so he will get enough chances even after he gets 5 ducks in a row. and we know that he will come back with a great knock as he is always be hungry for runs

 

[pillionrider]

On the other hand our board and coaches like Waqar yunus drop equally talented batsmen who have history of dominating australia and new zealand in test series on first sign of failure just because they have personal agendas.

) I missed this gem from the OP.

My dear friend. Even Rahane has dominated Australia and thrashed a rampant Mitchell Johnson better than this equally talented batsman.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

PCB already did this with Babar Azam. They also gave Asad Shafiq a long run, too long.

 

[Buffet]

OP can't be serious. Indian backing Kohli in the last 1 year, lol.

 

[globalcitizen]

Do you think Babar Azam will be dropped if he has failures for a year. No right. so some players have earned their place and can still be in the team and given a run.

 

[Raja111]

Why not? Especially if they had 70+ centuries and 50+ average in all three formats despite all these failures.

 

[Usman]

Do you think Babar Azam will be dropped if he has failures for a year. No right. so some players have earned their place and can still be in the team and given a run.

You should read some of the threads about Barbar on here. The moment Barbar gets out in any format, you have the usual pessimists out in full force.

If he hasn't made a 50, they will tell you he's total rubbish. If he makes a 50 but not a hundred or makes a hundred but not a 150, you will get people who have a problem with it. There are threads on here about Barber being a very selfish batsman - the biggest match winner since Inzi is apparently selfish. You couldn't make this stuff up.

What Kohli's current run shows is that all cricketers are human and at some stage, they will have a lean patch. It happens to everyone. It doesn't mean that the moment Kohli makes a low score you start calling for his head.

Any Pakistani in history who had a lean patch like the one Kohli is having would see fans saying all sorts of things about him. I remember even the great Younus Khan faced this if he didn't score a hundred in every innings!

 

[Barragan]

If a batsman plays 2-3 seasons of FC and maintains a healthy average of 45+ or 40+ (openers), then they should definitely be backed!

Case in point, backing a 38 averaging (shafiq) over 55 averaging batsman (Fawad).

Even though Fawad is on his last legs, but he has shown the grit and determination to get Pak out of a dire situation, whilst the other one failed constantly and didn't deserve to play for over a decade.

 

[JaDed]

You should had rather given examples of Pant, Rohit or Kohli during 2009-2011...

 

[NishanKonar]

'Talent' is not a word used often in Indian cricket, unless in a semi-derogatory manner like Rohit.

This is so true. The word Talent is so overused in Pakistan cricket

In India they use the word " talent " mockingly to denote players who are under performing due to lack of effort / focus like Rohit ( pre 2015 )

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Once again if he wants to prolong his career he should start skipping IPL for at least next 4 years to keep his mind and body fresh. He can play that league later when he retires as an ATG.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Asad Shafique was backed. #justsaying

 

[sshakir411]

Kohli’s rise to greatness isn’t because of the backing or support he got. It’s because of the enormous amount of work he put in his game to become the player he is. As mentioned, handful of Pakistani batsmen got unlimited backing: Hafeez, Malik, Azhar, Asad, Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shehzad. All of these combined don’t come close to Kohli. Pakistanis work ethic is poor and they are easily satisfied with one good innings.

 

[OMB]

First of all, it is not Kohli only who gets backing. Every player does get backing but they have to earn it. Kohli will be in team even if he scores 5 ducks in a row. Such is his clout and influence that no one dare to challenge his position. He is a talisman.
Form is Temporary, class is Permanent.

 

[CanadianG00se]

First of all, it is not Kohli only who gets backing. Every player does get backing but they have to earn it. Kohli will be in team even if he scores 5 ducks in a row. Such is his clout and influence that no one dare to challenge his position. He is a talisman.
Form is Temporary, class is Permanent.

There lies the problem. Kohli is not going to get any better from here. It will only go downhill from here. How many more ducks till you think it’s enough? He hasn’t scored anything since 2018, that’s almost 3 years. Our superstar culture will cost many games and perhaps even world title.

 

[MesonK]

Pakistani team does not do this bad that fans have to keep posting topics like how PCB should learn from this board and that board.

Our players on individual levels and even as a team have almost on par records with other teams.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Please don't use derogatory words like 'talent'. Talent is worthless without character, hardwork and temperament.

The things Kohli has accomplished in his career cannot be forgotten because of a couple of bad series. His average has not dropped below 50 in both formats since maybe 2015. On top of that, Kohli has a strong and assertive personality. He knows what he wants; both as a batsman and as a captain. These qualities combined with his incredible batting ability and a work-ethic that is likely unmatched by any cricketer in the world are what make him a once in a generation talent.

When Pakistan gets a once in a generation talent that is not only an incredible cricketer but also a highly successful captain (Kohli is India's most successful test captain ever) then I assure you he will be bigger than the board just like Imran was and Kohli is. And no one will have the courage to bat an eye.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Asad Shafique was backed. #justsaying

What a waste of time that was

 

[Slog]

OP wants to give some long rope to one series wonders that India give to Kohli (7-8 years of consistent performance)

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Lol, it's been a while since we've heard from a diehard Shehzad fan.

 

[Indiafan]

Kohli has beeen out of form and doing very bad for more than a year now. Failures in consecutive series. His last big series was ages ago against South Africa. But even with dis deres no chatter of him getting dropped. No pressure on his place. Because that’s what you do with special talents. You back them because you know they will come good.

Many kudos to BCCI and Indian team management. They know players can go thru bad times. But class remains and comes out top.

On the other hand our board and coaches like Waqar yunus drop equally talented batsmen who have history of dominating australia and new zealand in test series on first sign of failure just because they have personal agendas. And it wasn’t even failure. Just an ok series in WI. Still averages 40+ in tests.

No wonder India is near or at top of rankings always and Pakistan is in lower half... jaisi karni waisi bharni

This is hilariously wrong. Kohli gets backing because he has proven himself to he a legend and dominated for years. Umar Akmal or Shehzad didn't do that

You can compare Akmal or Shehzad with Pant. Pant proved himself with 100s on his first tour of England and 159 in his first tour of australia. Something many legends have not been able to achieve. Pant dominated in tour of Aus in 2018 both with bat and gloves

Yet Pant was dropped for underperformance. He won his place back with his own hard work, he lost weight, kept practicing keeping

 

[Indiafan]

There lies the problem. Kohli is not going to get any better from here. It will only go downhill from here. How many more ducks till you think it’s enough? He hasn’t scored anything since 2018, that’s almost 3 years. Our superstar culture will cost many games and perhaps even world title.

He scored a 50 just last test. Kohli averages 49 since 2018 with 7 100s in 28 matches (thats 1 100 every 4 match)

Yeah he is no where near legendary but no where near as bad as you are making it out. So you want us to drop someone who averages 49 with 1 100 every 4 games?

 

[jiduguravindra]

He scored a 50 just last test. Kohli averages 49 since 2018 with 7 100s in 28 matches (thats 1 100 every 4 match)

Yeah he is no where near legendary but no where near as bad as you are making it out. So you want us to drop someone who averages 49 with 1 100 every 4 games?

Fifties in last two test matches come at when pitch is more difficult to bat. He is still our best player in team but going through rough patch.

 

[dildilpak]

Form is temporary, class is permanent. Every batsman goes through these dips, nothing new about it. Look at Joe Root - guy was in a sorry form for a few years. People (including me) had given up on him & were looking at his abysmal conversion record & now he proved all of ur wrong with almost 3 double centuries in as many matches. Kohli is too good a player to be in this rut for long - anybody thinking about dropping him should have his head examined!

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Form is temporary, class is permanent. Every batsman goes through these dips, nothing new about it. Look at Joe Root - guy was in a sorry form for a few years. People (including me) had given up on him & were looking at his abysmal conversion record & now he proved all of ur wrong with almost 3 double centuries in as many matches. Kohli is too good a player to be in this rut for long - anybody thinking about dropping him should have his head examined!

So you ageee someone like Ahmed Shehzad with a proven track record (dominating series against SA, Aus, 9 int’l centuries at tender age of 24) was unjustly and harshly dropped?

 

[dildilpak]

So you ageee someone like Ahmed Shehzad with a proven track record (dominating series against SA, Aus, 9 int’l centuries at tender age of 24) was unjustly and harshly dropped?

First of all, there is no comparision of Shehzad to stellar acts like Root or Kohli who have proven themselves across formats & across multiple series. Ahmed Shehzad’s case is a mixed bag - just like Umar Akmal you could say he bought it on himself. Guy had talent & could maybe have been given a longer rope to prove himself, but he didnt help his own cause.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

First of all, there is no comparision of Shehzad to stellar acts like Root or Kohli who have proven themselves across formats & across multiple series. Ahmed Shehzad’s case is a mixed bag - just like Umar Akmal you could say he bought it on himself. Guy had talent & could maybe have been given a longer rope to prove himself, but he didnt help his own cause.

Part wrong you are. You’re saying Ahmad didn’t prove himself the same way Kohli or Root did. Totally wrong. How can he prove himself the same way when he doesn’t get the same long rope of matches in your words. If you remember Kohli was terrible for first 2 years of his test career. Absolutely bad. And Ahmad never had series like Kohli failure in 2014 England. Despite that Kohli got long rope whereas Ahmad got dropped after one average series (SL tour) despite dominating NZ and Aus before that.

His start in international cricket was as good as it gets really. Forget Kohli or Root, his trajectory at the age of 22 was ahead of or atleast similar to some of the ATGs of the game. It is not me who’s saying this. Records and stats say that. It’s not up for debate

 

[Majid Khan]

Talented batsmen need the kind of supreme talent and skills that Kohli has to deserve that kind of backing and grooming.

Otherwise Hafeez and more recently Shan Masood have had grooming and backing by PCb despite all failures and criticism that even a Kohli could not have dreamed about. But the end result was mediocrity and somewhat disappointing.

 

[dildilpak]

Talented batsmen need the kind of supreme talent and skills that Kohli has to deserve that kind of backing and grooming.

Otherwise Hafeez and more recently Shan Masood have had grooming and backing by PCb despite all failures and criticism that even a Kohli could not have dreamed about. But the end result was mediocrity and somewhat disappointing.

You can also add Asad Shafiq to that list.

 

[Buffet]

This thread is absurd.

Kohli has been the best all-format batsman in the world in the last 5 years. Not scoring heavily in one format for 5-7 matches hardly means that he needs backing or BCCI is backing him.

You back someone who needs backing. Like a youngster in initial years based on his potential.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Under Kohli Indian bowling is the one which vastly improved. Batting has become inconsistent.

 

[rhony]

So you ageee someone like Ahmed Shehzad with a proven track record (dominating series against SA, Aus, 9 int’l centuries at tender age of 24) was unjustly and harshly dropped?

I think you are Ahmed Shahzad. I could be wrong though. How are you? I know you have a love hate relation with Kohli with that look and all but the difference in ability and talent is actually quite overwhelming. You had the body language of Kohli with the strike rate of Pujara. That conflict killed your career.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Lmao, people are actually trying to explain to a Shehzad fan with logic. That's not going to work.

 

[pillionrider]

Lmao, people are actually trying to explain to a Shehzad fan with logic. That's not going to work.

I think the equally talented player mentioned in the OP is Umar Akmal.

 

[Slog]

I think the equally talented player mentioned in the OP is Umar Akmal.

No I think it’s Shehzad since he is mentioning Australia, NZ series and then the WI series which if I’m not wrong was Shehzads last series.

 

[Slog]

Lmao, people are actually trying to explain to a Shehzad fan with logic. That's not going to work.

I don’t know if you were around but way back same OP compared Shehzad to Sachin and Hanif Muhammad

 

[pillionrider]

No I think it’s Shehzad since he is mentioning Australia, NZ series and then the WI series which if I’m not wrong was Shehzads last series.

Ok then that makes it worse. Umar Akmal >> Shehzad

 

[Indiafan]

So you ageee someone like Ahmed Shehzad with a proven track record (dominating series against SA, Aus, 9 int’l centuries at tender age of 24) was unjustly and harshly dropped?

You didn't reply to how india dropped Pant despite him dominating series in England and Australia in 2018 as a 21 year old

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Kohli still won’t be dropped. Shezzy was for 25% of failures

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

That's like saying Windies backed Lara Aus backed Ponting and South Africa backed Amla just bcoz they avgd in low 30s for 10 matches. Lol

 

[Cric_lover4487]

Anyone who meets the eye test will get backing, problem is very few Pakistani batsmen meet the eye test.

Not really. Umar Amin was easy on the eye. He was hardly given any backing. Shoaib Maqsood also looked lazily elegant when he arrived. Now he plays like a typical T20 slogger.

 

[pillionrider]

Kohli still won’t be dropped. Shezzy was for 25% of failures

There's a difference though. Shezzy didn't have 2point5% of Kohli's ATG knocks before the failures

If Kohli was 40 years old, there's be pressure on him to quit. But since that's not the case, Kohli will roll on deservedly.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Are we seriously comparing Shezzy with Kohli?

Lol.

Ok you back Shezzy for 50 test matches...whats going to happen?

 

[pillionrider]

Ok you back Shezzy for 50 test matches...whats going to happen?

Twitter spam..... 100 vs Zim ....selfie spam ..... 100 vs WI/BD Afridi house spam....

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Are we seriously comparing Shezzy with Kohli?

Lol.

Ok you back Shezzy for 50 test matches...whats going to happen?

Bro. We are not comparing Kohl’s level to Shezzy’s. Obv Kohli has achieved much much more and has a significantly higher standing in cricket. That is without question. I also back him to make a comeback to the top level soon.

But if you compare Kohli’s last 18-24 months to Shehzad’ last 18 months in Test cricket (when he was initially dropped not 2017 WI recall); then you would see Shehzad’s numbers were better.

So I’m asking is why is there different treatment from selectors, fans and media alike for two players having a bad run of form esp when Kohli’s poor form has been much longer. Shehzad had also been doing well In 2013-15 period but as long as he had couple of bad series; the knives came out.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Bro. We are not comparing Kohl’s level to Shezzy’s. Obv Kohli has achieved much much more and has a significantly higher standing in cricket. That is without question. I also back him to make a comeback to the top level soon.

But if you compare Kohli’s last 18-24 months to Shehzad’ last 18 months in Test cricket (when he was initially dropped not 2017 WI recall); then you would see Shehzad’s numbers were better.

So I’m asking is why is there different treatment from selectors, fans and media alike for two players having a bad run of form esp when Kohli’s poor form has been much longer. Shehzad had also been doing well In 2013-15 period but as long as he had couple of bad series; the knives came out.

Bhai....there is a small difference.

Kohli's 18-24 month lean patch came after he had done incredible things.

When he was a newbie and flopped in WI (2011), he was dropped for the Eng test tour (2011).

You are given way more leeway once you build a reputation.

 

[Jazx]

Kohli is levels above any batsman Pakistan has ever produced.

If Pakistan ever develops the capacity of producing a batsman of Kohli’s level, he would also get a very long rope and full support.

Kohli was not kohli when he first came into scene. A good bataman is developed into greats and Pakistan doesn't have any clue of how to do that. Even a batsman like kohli or tendulkar would have been spoiled by pakistan if they have got. Tendulkar's career and record would have been almost same as inzy or yousuf if he was in pakistan.

 

[PakLFC]

Virat made a name for himself before receiving the backing and status he has achieved. Our batsman like Umar Akmal neither have the dedication nor talents to tie his boot laces. No one gets this kind of backing at the start of their career. How do we recognise a "talented" or "non talented" batsman in the first place?

 

[Jazx]

Virat made a name for himself before receiving the backing and status he has achieved. Our batsman like Umar Akmal neither have the dedication nor talents to tie his boot laces. No one gets this kind of backing at the start of their career. How do we recognise a "talented" or "non talented" batsman in the first place?

Not every player can have the same character. Even sehwag does not have the dedication but he was natural and does not thinks much about his game. He was backed properly and the management very soon recognized his best place to bat that was opening. And if you are using akmal just as an odi and t20 bataman and that too at number 6-7 position what sort of dedication you are expecting from him.

 

[PakLFC]

Not every player can have the same character. Even sehwag does not have the dedication but he was natural and does not thinks much about his game. He was backed properly and the management very soon recognized his best place to bat that was opening. And if you are using akmal just as an odi and t20 bataman and that too at number 6-7 position what sort of dedication you are expecting from him.

Not every player can be a Sehwag either. To receive any kind of backing a player needs to show dedication, promise and longevity. Indian batsmen show some quality to receive the backing they get where as ours do so nothing. The likes of Sohaib Maqsood, Umar Akmal or Harris Sohail don't deserve anything at all.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

This is a strange thread and im not sure if you are trolling.

Kohli is one of the best batsmen acroas formats ever. He literally scares the opposition and you can see the sense of relief in opposition players and fans when he gets out.

He has dominated every format of cricket for years and done things that no Pakistani player has.

Yet here we are comparing his lean patch to Ahmed Shezads lol.

 

[PakLFC]

We can't use a loser like Umar Akmal at anything after his rightful international ban. Either this guy was busy dancing, getting in to fights or drinking too much water thereby bringing on the weight. Glad to see the back of such a pathetic example of a sportsman. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

[Jazx]

Not every player can be a Sehwag either. To receive any kind of backing a player needs to show dedication, promise and longevity. Indian batsmen show some quality to receive the backing they get where as ours do so nothing. The likes of Sohaib Maqsood, Umar Akmal or Harris Sohail don't deserve anything at all.

I am not talking about any other like maqsood who is mediocire and haris who was just average. I am talking about umar akmal who showed a lot of quality and promise during the initial phase and then was sidelined from tests without any reason and converted into a slogger in limited overs cricket. Yes indian batsman show some quality to receive backing and similarly that was shown by akmal initialy but was not backed by management. You can't expect a proper batsman to grow by giving him a sloggers role. Actually pakistan is a master in converting good batsmans into a slogger and a medicore batsman into a top order player. But now i think that mentality is slightly improving on seeing babar and rizwan at top order.

 

[Mamoon]

Kohli was not kohli when he first came into scene. A good bataman is developed into greats and Pakistan doesn't have any clue of how to do that. Even a batsman like kohli or tendulkar would have been spoiled by pakistan if they have got. Tendulkar's career and record would have been almost same as inzy or yousuf if he was in pakistan.

I would disagree.

When you are a great talent and have good work ethic, you will shine regardless of the system and the constraints.

Babar is proof of this - he is very talented and also hardworking, and he has made a prominent name for himself as a top batsman in spite of Pakistan’s failure to develop talent.

Kohli type players are once in many generations. If Pakistan can produce a batsman of his talent and his work ethic, he will prove to an all-time great regardless of the the mediocrity that has infected Pakistan cricket.

 

[Jazx]

I would disagree.

When you are a great talent and have good work ethic, you will shine regardless of the system and the constraints.

Babar is proof of this - he is very talented and also hardworking, and he has made a prominent name for himself as a top batsman in spite of Pakistan’s failure to develop talent.

Kohli type players are once in many generations. If Pakistan can produce a batsman of his talent and his work ethic, he will prove to an all-time great regardless of the the mediocrity that has infected Pakistan cricket.

They were lucky to find babar and they also needs luck to find someone like kohli because the way talents are recognized in pakistan is completely flawed. They have no understanding about a good batsman and how to groom them.

 

[PakLFC]

I am not talking about any other like maqsood who is mediocire and haris who was just average. I am talking about umar akmal who showed a lot of quality and promise during the initial phase and then was sidelined from tests without any reason and converted into a slogger in limited overs cricket. Yes indian batsman show some quality to receive backing and similarly that was shown by akmal initialy but was not backed by management. You can't expect a proper batsman to grow by giving him a sloggers role. Actually pakistan is a master in converting good batsmans into a slogger and a medicore batsman into a top order player. But now i think that mentality is slightly improving on seeing babar and rizwan at top order.

He did not show much quality ever from where I was watching. Just another over hyped batsman promising the world yet delivering nothing. He was omitted from the squad for not being good enough. Thing is we keep hiding behind this word "potential" which is never realized, all our batsmen have great potential we are constantly told yet no one delivers where and when it matters most. Another factor is discipline where the great Umar Akmal was again found wanting. Either he was not fit enough or fighting with some parking attendant over childish issues. This for believing he was now a superstar above any law of the country. We have had plenty of great batsmen who put their mind to it then performed adequately, Umar isn't one of them.

 

[Jazx]

He did not show much quality ever from where I was watching. Just another over hyped batsman promising the world yet delivering nothing. He was omitted from the squad for not being good enough. Thing is we keep hiding behind this word "potential" which is never realized, all our batsmen have great potential we are constantly told yet no one delivers where and when it matters most. Another factor is discipline where the great Umar Akmal was again found wanting. Either he was not fit enough or fighting with some parking attendant over childish issues. This for believing he was now a superstar above any law of the country. We have had plenty of great batsmen who put their mind to it then performed adequately, Umar isn't one of them.

If you didn't saw the quality then either you haven't watched him from the beginning or you don't like him personally. Most of the cricket experts expected him to be the next big thing at that time. But strangely he was sidelined by the coach and captain of those days who have 80s mentality towards the game and pakistan is still suffering from the seeds bowed by them. People here have more issues with his personal life and off the field behavior which has nothing to do with his game. There are even more spoiled characters than him in the history of the game who turned out into greats.

 

[PakLFC]

If you didn't saw the quality then either you haven't watched him from the beginning or you don't like him personally. Most of the cricket experts expected him to be the next big thing at that time. But strangely he was sidelined by the coach and captain of those days who have 80s mentality towards the game and pakistan is still suffering from the seeds bowed by them. People here have more issues with his personal life and off the field behavior which has nothing to do with his game. There are even more spoiled characters than him in the history of the game who turned out into greats.

We have had many false dawns. Yeah I recall many commentators praising him sky high in his initial few matches before they stopped doing so. He was thrown out of the team for his attitude, indiscipline, poor performances, poor fitness and possible political connections as well. Apparently, he and his older brother Kamran were responsible for causing divisions in the side.

For sure off field antics effects your on field performance's. If a player is always making wrong headlines or causing mischief like him then it effects team morale and it's overall image. Even in an office job they wouldn't employ someone with a criminal record or poor behaviour. An Ian Botham in his pomp could be excused now and again not a no hoper like Umar who has never delivered for Pak.

 

[Jazx]

We have had many false dawns. Yeah I recall many commentators praising him sky high in his initial few matches before they stopped doing so. He was thrown out of the team for his attitude, indiscipline, poor performances, poor fitness and possible political connections as well. Apparently, he and his older brother Kamran were responsible for causing divisions in the side.

For sure off field antics effects your on field performance's. If a player is always making wrong headlines or causing mischief like him then it effects team morale and it's overall image. Even in an office job they wouldn't employ someone with a criminal record or poor behaviour. An Ian Botham in his pomp could be excused now and again not a no hoper like Umar who has never delivered for Pak.

It does not matter how great a player he is, but if he is not used at his right position that will effect his performance definitely. Ian botham at pomp could be excused, but what if he was forced to bat as an opener in tests and does not gets the new ball to bowl at all. Would he have finished his career with same stats as he did?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I agree. Had he been backed, Shezzy would have been the greatest Asian batter of all time.

 

[PakLFC]

It does not matter how great a player he is, but if he is not used at his right position that will effect his performance definitely. Ian botham at pomp could be excused, but what if he was forced to bat as an opener in tests and does not gets the new ball to bowl at all. Would he have finished his career with same stats as he did?

It is just an excuse to say he was never played in the right position. Ian as well as others did play in various positions too. Even IK batted at different positions throughout his career because this is what great even good players do. Umar was never made to bat with the tail neither was he such an established who could choose where to bat. Just not good enough, simple.

 

[Jazx]

It is just an excuse to say he was never played in the right position. Ian as well as others did play in various positions too. Even IK batted at different positions throughout his career because this is what great even good players do. Umar was never made to bat with the tail neither was he such an established who could choose where to bat. Just not good enough, simple.

Ian and IK batted at different positions that does not means that they have done wonders at all the positions they batted. They were shuffled according to the match situations. Both were not so established batsmans who would have batted at a specific position throughout their careers. They were bowling all-rounders and a very good lower middle order batsmans who could hit sixes when needed and such players are usually shuffled at different positions according to the need. There is no comparison between a specialist batsman with an all-rounder. And if you think that a batsman should be capable to bat at any position then only the players from early 2000s Australia have that caliber. Greg chappell tried the same thing with india during his coaching tenure and he failed miserably inspite of having a mighty indian batting lineup. And as far as number 6-7 positions are concerned you need some calculative players like bevan, raina, dhoni, hussey who could finish the games. Wheras umer's temprament was such that he could not play in pressure situations and the best way to utilize him was the opening slot. He was very good against fast bowling and you need some flashy players when the ball is hard. By your logic it seems that you expect shane warne to ball with a new ball and take 5 wickets. And if he fails in that he should be thrown out as he could not do well in the circumstances which were agianst his bowling.

 

[PakLFC]

Ian and IK batted at different positions that does not means that they have done wonders at all the positions they batted. They were shuffled according to the match situations. Both were not so established batsmans who would have batted at a specific position throughout their careers. They were bowling all-rounders and a very good lower middle order batsmans who could hit sixes when needed and such players are usually shuffled at different positions according to the need. There is no comparison between a specialist batsman with an all-rounder. And if you think that a batsman should be capable to bat at any position then only the players from early 2000s Australia have that caliber. Greg chappell tried the same thing with india during his coaching tenure and he failed miserably inspite of having a mighty indian batting lineup. And as far as number 6-7 positions are concerned you need some calculative players like bevan, raina, dhoni, hussey who could finish the games. Wheras umer's temprament was such that he could not play in pressure situations and the best way to utilize him was the opening slot. He was very good against fast bowling and you need some flashy players when the ball is hard. By your logic it seems that you expect shane warne to ball with a new ball and take 5 wickets. And if he fails in that he should be thrown out as he could not do well in the circumstances which were agianst his bowling.

You said Umar has never been given a chance in his favourite position. I am saying that IK and Botham were both moved around in their careers among other players. Most other top batsmen were as well not that I consider Umar to ever be that. Umar has not done anything either wherever he batted hence he was rightly thrown out. I don't know what the hell is it that you see in him! Once again even the likes of Miandad and Richards often batted in other positions.

It is up to the coach to decide where a batsman comes in. Your beloved Umar was not only unable to do that but was also a bad influence on the side. He was a trouble maker at every level always making headline for the wrongs reasons. But for a few decent innings every once in a while he was a hindrance rightfully dropped after continuously letting the team down. Aussie players have always had great batsmen, if one does not perform then someone else will come in and do the job. Once again it is ridiculous to say Umar never played well due to where he was made to bat! It is even more stupid to think that this at best average batsman could handle the pressure of opening the innings.

No by my logic your Umar was useless everywhere he batted. He rightfully was not made to open the innings many times if at all due to his poor shot selection. Pacemen open the bowling so yes Warny could not do that, batsmen are supposed to score runs and play to the teams strength where Umar failed repeatedly. Just like his older brother Umar was a liability rightfully thrown out of the team. It's over for him.

 

[Hitman]

Kohli was not kohli when he first came into scene. A good bataman is developed into greats and Pakistan doesn't have any clue of how to do that. Even a batsman like kohli or tendulkar would have been spoiled by pakistan if they have got. Tendulkar's career and record would have been almost same as inzy or yousuf if he was in pakistan.

You mean he would have averaged in the 20's against Australia and South Africa if he were a Pakistani?

 

[Jazx]

You mean he would have averaged in the 20's against Australia and South Africa if he were a Pakistani?

Can't say about the averages but in ODIs he would have never opened and played consistently at 4-5. And his final stats would be 8-10k runs in odis. And in test he would have been in and out very often as during his initial days of career he used to gave his wicket away by playing irresponsible shots frequently.

 

[Jazx]

You said Umar has never been given a chance in his favourite position. I am saying that IK and Botham were both moved around in their careers among other players. Most other top batsmen were as well not that I consider Umar to ever be that. Umar has not done anything either wherever he batted hence he was rightly thrown out. I don't know what the hell is it that you see in him! Once again even the likes of Miandad and Richards often batted in other positions.

It is up to the coach to decide where a batsman comes in. Your beloved Umar was not only unable to do that but was also a bad influence on the side. He was a trouble maker at every level always making headline for the wrongs reasons. But for a few decent innings every once in a while he was a hindrance rightfully dropped after continuously letting the team down. Aussie players have always had great batsmen, if one does not perform then someone else will come in and do the job. Once again it is ridiculous to say Umar never played well due to where he was made to bat! It is even more stupid to think that this at best average batsman could handle the pressure of opening the innings.

No by my logic your Umar was useless everywhere he batted. He rightfully was not made to open the innings many times if at all due to his poor shot selection. Pacemen open the bowling so yes Warny could not do that, batsmen are supposed to score runs and play to the teams strength where Umar failed repeatedly. Just like his older brother Umar was a liability rightfully thrown out of the team. It's over for him.

Haha, you actually have too much hatred about him. Ya he was rightfully not made to open as pakistan find a better option in azhar ali for that role in odis. Pakistan deserves azhar ali kind of batsmans only.

 

[proud_pakistani]

I have an Indian friend who has played club cricket and one thing he told me which was quite enlightening. He told me any half decent batsman has the ability to hit 4s and 6s at club cricket in India but the only batsmen that get the backing are those with technique and there is a big emphasis on technique before they make a step up to even Ranji trophy. In Pakistan people progress from club cricket if they are half decent and have connections. That is the difference.

And to talk about Kohli we havent had any batsman close to him besides Babar who is also some way away from being the match winner Kohli is.

 

[Mamoon]

I have an Indian friend who has played club cricket and one thing he told me which was quite enlightening. He told me any half decent batsman has the ability to hit 4s and 6s at club cricket in India but the only batsmen that get the backing are those with technique and there is a big emphasis on technique before they make a step up to even Ranji trophy. In Pakistan people progress from club cricket if they are half decent and have connections. That is the difference.

And to talk about Kohli we havent had any batsman close to him besides Babar who is also some way away from being the match winner Kohli is.

After 13 years of IPL, I don’t think India has picked a single based on IPL exploits.

They only pick young batsmen if they dominate FC cricket, and if they also do well in IPL, they are considered for the Limited Overs squads.

Meanwhile Pakistan picks batsmen who can barely score in FC cricket and then they are expected to excel in international cricket.

 

[Cric_lover4487]

After 13 years of IPL, I don’t think India has picked a single based on IPL exploits.

They only pick young batsmen if they dominate FC cricket, and if they also do well in IPL, they are considered for the Limited Overs squads.

Meanwhile Pakistan picks batsmen who can barely score in FC cricket and then they are expected to excel in international cricket.

My 16 year old cousin plays for U17 team at state level (Uttar Pradesh). He told me they play 3 day matches with red ball mostly. He was also sent to county in UK by state cricket association to help in developing technique for green wickets. India is a developing country but i must say that cricket is becoming more and more professional every year. If you see first class stats of India B team players who played in Srilanka recently you will notice heavy first class experience.

 

[PakLFC]

Haha, you actually have too much hatred about him. Ya he was rightfully not made to open as pakistan find a better option in azhar ali for that role in odis. Pakistan deserves azhar ali kind of batsmans only.

No hate at all. You are unreasonably defending with him as if he's your family member of something. He was not made opener due to his poor technique, temperament and always giving his wicket away cheaply due to his terrible shot selection. Pak coaches know far better then a novice like you. Umar was no better then Azhar. Additionally, as we know he was always unfit. Accept his Cricket career is rightfully over instead of spitting your dummy like a baby