Tests teams away from home since January 2011 - Australia and Pakistan level with the most wins

[RedwoodOriginal]

[table=class:grid][tr][td]Team[/td][td]Mat[/td][td]Won[/td][td]Lost[/td][td]Tied[/td][td]Draw[/td][td]W/L[/td][td]Ave[/td][td]RPO[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Australia[/td][td]42[/td][td]15[/td][td]21[/td][td]0[/td][td]6[/td][td]0.714[/td][td]29.85[/td][td]3.19[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pakistan[/td][td]37[/td][td]15[/td][td]18[/td][td]0[/td][td]4[/td][td]0.833[/td][td]31.53[/td][td]3.05[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]India[/td][td]41[/td][td]10[/td][td]19[/td][td]0[/td][td]11[/td][td]0.526[/td][td]30.83[/td][td]3.25[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]South Africa[/td][td]30[/td][td]10[/td][td]9[/td][td]0[/td][td]11[/td][td]1.111[/td][td]30.62[/td][td]2.97[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]England[/td][td]36[/td][td]8[/td][td]19[/td][td]0[/td][td]9[/td][td]0.421[/td][td]31.16[/td][td]2.99[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]New Zealand[/td][td]30[/td][td]8[/td][td]18[/td][td]0[/td][td]4[/td][td]0.444[/td][td]29.16[/td][td]3.19[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sri Lanka[/td][td]33[/td][td]7[/td][td]17[/td][td]0[/td][td]9[/td][td]0.411[/td][td]29.55[/td][td]3.24[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]West Indies[/td][td]30[/td][td]5[/td][td]18[/td][td]0[/td][td]7[/td][td]0.277[/td][td]28.42[/td][td]3.12[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bangladesh[/td][td]16[/td][td]2[/td][td]13[/td][td]0[/td][td]1[/td][td]0.153[/td][td]25.77[/td][td]3.16[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Afghanistan[/td][td]1[/td][td]0[/td][td]1[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]10.6[/td][td]3.18[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Zimbabwe[/td][td]8[/td][td]0[/td][td]8[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]20.36[/td][td]3.06[/td][/tr][/table]

- No team has lost fewer home series in this decade than Pakistan and India (one each)

- No team has won more away tests than Pakistan (only South Africa with a better W/L ratio

- Our press, "anchors" & ex-players have spent all of this decade complaining how **** this team is.

 

[RainMan_]

Not really sure why should we start counting from 2011. It looks rather odd. Either do a comparison between teams in last 5 years or 10 years or in last 15 years.

In last 10 years Pakistan has an win loss ratio of .62 and has an 100% loss record against teams like Australia and South Africa. Don't think it's a recored to be proud of.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Not really sure why should we start counting from 2011. It looks rather odd. Either do a comparison between teams in last 5 years or 10 years or in last 15 years.

In last 10 years Pakistan has an win loss ratio of .62 and has an 100% loss record against teams like Australia and South Africa. Don't think it's a recored to be proud of.

Really? So you're saying that Pakistan didn't beat Australia at Headingly in 2010? Or was that not away from home?

 

[Titan24]

Not really sure why should we start counting from 2011. It looks rather odd. Either do a comparison between teams in last 5 years or 10 years or in last 15 years.

In last 10 years Pakistan has an win loss ratio of .62 and has an 100% loss record against teams like Australia and South Africa. Don't think it's a recored to be proud of.

100%? You are talking about overseas only hopefully as Pak has beaten Aussies in the last home series and drew with SA.

Even .62 is a pretty good ratio in overseas and still higher than the rest except maybe Australia

 

[barah_admi]

I'm not that surprised to be honest. The self hating Pakistani "experts" on your TV screens moan every chance they get yet the team has consistently performed well and if they truly followed cricket, they would know Pak was unbeaten in 7 test series from 2010-12 and 7 again from 2014-16, I believe 8 of those 14 series were away...even the home series are not truly home.

Pakistan Zindabad.

 

[Ab Fan]

You should remove Ireland and Zim and you will find South Africa are no.1 in wins/loss/draws all.

 

[ManFan]

Only major failures for Pakistan Test Team overseas in this decade has been 3-0 against SA and AUS.

 

[Mamoon]

Only major failures for Pakistan Test Team overseas in this decade has been 3-0 against SA and AUS.

And a 1-1 in Zimbabwe, few things in cricket are more embarrassing than losing a Test in Zimbabwe.

 

[Mamoon]

The table is cute but unfortunately it won’t change the rankings - there is a reason why we are #7 and why India is #1.

Our whining won’t change anything. Besides, looking at W/L ratio without taking into account the number of matches in XYZ countries means nothing.

 

[InziRules]

The table is cute but it unfortunately won’t change the rankings - there is a reason why we are #7 and why India is #1.

Our whining won’t change anything. Besides, looking at W/L ratio without taking into account the number of matches in XYZ countries means nothing.

I see one person whining and it's you. These are interesting stats. Nothing else. Next?

 

[The_Odd_One]

India in last 5 years in Australia, SA, England, and NZ

18 tests and just 2 wins

 

[ManFan]

And a 1-1 in Zimbabwe, few things in cricket are more embarrassing than losing a Test in Zimbabwe.

Yes but it was not a series loss.

Our “golden nineties” team lost a HOME series against Zimbabwe.

 

[Mamoon]

I see one person whining and it's you. These are interesting stats. Nothing else. Next?

The only people who are whining are delusional Pakistani fans who cannot digest the fact that India is a better team than Pakistan, and our only claim to fame is doing better than England in London venues.

These stats are not interesting. There is no breakdown of tours to explain how many matches Pakistan has played in XYZ countries with respect to other teams.

For example, a team that plays against weak teams away from home more often will have a good W/L ratio, however, it doesn’t make them good tourists.

 

[Mamoon]

Yes but it was not a series loss.

Our “golden nineties” team lost a HOME series against Zimbabwe.

The nineties Zimbabwe team was pretty good, and far better than the 2010 teams. Losing a Test to Zimbabwe in 2013 is 10x worse than getting whitewashed in a major country.

 

[InziRules]

The only people who are whining are delusional Pakistani fans who cannot digest the fact that India is a better team than Pakistan, and our only claim to fame is doing better than England in London venues.

These stats are not interesting. There is no breakdown of tours to explain how many matches Pakistan has played in XYZ countries with respect to other teams.

For example, a team that plays against weak teams away from home more often will have a good W/L ratio, however, it doesn’t make them good tourists.

It's over 7 years, so spread is likely same for most teams.

No one has whined or said anything about India

 

[Mamoon]

It's over 7 years, so spread is likely same for most teams.

No one has whined or said anything about India

We have played 5 Tests in Australia and South Africa since 2011 and have lost all 5. We have also lost Tests in Zimbabwe, West Indies and Sri Lanka.

We were also whitewashed in New Zealand in 2017, although we did beat them in 2011. We have only been good in England, that too in London Tests only.

This is our away record, so what is the big deal? What are we the doing bhangra for?

 

[The Googly]

We have played 5 Tests in Australia and South Africa since 2011 and have lost all 5. We have also lost Tests in Zimbabwe, West Indies and Sri Lanka.

We were also whitewashed in New Zealand in 2017, although we did beat them in 2011. We have only been good in England, that too in London Tests only.

This is our away record, so what is the big deal? What are we the doing bhangra for?

Thank you for yet another positive post.

 

[InziRules]

We have played 5 Tests in Australia and South Africa since 2011 and have lost all 5. We have also lost Tests in Zimbabwe, West Indies and Sri Lanka.

We were also whitewashed in New Zealand in 2017, although we did beat them in 2011. We have only been good in England, that too in London Tests only.

This is our away record, so what is the big deal? What are we the doing bhangra for?

We the doing bhangra because we have the most away test wins in that time. Not like other teams didn't play South Africa, Australia and co

 

[Titan24]

The only people who are whining are delusional Pakistani fans who cannot digest the fact that India is a better team than Pakistan, and our only claim to fame is doing better than England in London venues.

These stats are not interesting. There is no breakdown of tours to explain how many matches Pakistan has played in XYZ countries with respect to other teams.

For example, a team that plays against weak teams away from home more often will have a good W/L ratio, however, it doesn’t make them good tourists.

I agree India is a better team at home and the reasons are they actually play at home and can develop the type of rank turners they want and demolish the top sides who cant play that kind of spin in one season to achieve that no 1 rankings.

I know you have seen a lot of cricket but, do you genuinely feel that those home season pitches especially against SA was anywhere near an even battlefield. I know homes sides always have advantage of conditions but those pitches were laughable at certain points.

You can see numerous articles even by Indian news agencies that how controversial the pitches have been in India in the last decade or two. I havent seen that many controversies regarding pitches for any other cricketing nation.

Other than these few artificial feats at home they havent achieved anything in tests to be called a better team than the current Pak test team. One other thing the Indian team deserves credit to is good team selection at home grounds and Kohli winning most of the tosses in that purple patch season with cobra like spinning pitches and in turn opposition batted last on most occasions.

 

[The_Odd_One]

We have played 5 Tests in Australia and South Africa since 2011 and have lost all 5. We have also lost Tests in Zimbabwe, West Indies and Sri Lanka.

We were also whitewashed in New Zealand in 2017, although we did beat them in 2011. We have only been good in England, that too in London Tests only.

This is our away record, so what is the big deal? What are we the doing bhangra for?

India have played 27 away tests against the same teams and won just 2. Why are you being so over excited about this tremendous record? I will though agree that India are far better at beating teams at custom made pitches at home.

 

[Titan24]

We have played 5 Tests in Australia and South Africa since 2011 and have lost all 5. We have also lost Tests in Zimbabwe, West Indies and Sri Lanka.

We were also whitewashed in New Zealand in 2017, although we did beat them in 2011. We have only been good in England, that too in London Tests only.

This is our away record, so what is the big deal? What are we the doing bhangra for?

Pak is never known for its consistency, that one loss against Zim was just a reassurance of that fact but Pak did play some really good home seasons in coming years with consistency to achieve top rankings and that too in Eng by drawing the series. Then came the rest of the overseas season and like most of the teams of the current era we lost the bulk of ranking points and now the rebuilding process.

I am expecting significant improvement in upcoming home season as with luxury of Faheem and Shadab Mickley and Sarfaraz cant get the combination wrong like last time against Srl even if they try.

 

[Titan24]

India have played 27 away tests against the same teams and won just 2. Why are you being so over excited about this tremendous record? I will though agree that India are far better at beating teams at custom made pitches at home.

Funny thing is ICC has done nothing about the nature of the pitches there even when Indian cricketing experts and news agencies are asking questions.

 

[InziRules]

So Pakistan has won 3 tests against England, South Africa and Australia in fewer tests, while India has won 2 in 27.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I agree India is a better team at home and the reasons are they actually play at home and can develop the type of rank turners they want and demolish the top sides who cant play that kind of spin in one season to achieve that no 1 rankings.

I know you have seen a lot of cricket but, do you genuinely feel that those home season pitches especially against SA was anywhere near an even battlefield. I know homes sides always have advantage of conditions but those pitches were laughable at certain points.

You can see numerous articles even by Indian news agencies that how controversial the pitches have been in India in the last decade or two. I havent seen that many controversies regarding pitches for any other cricketing nation.

Other than these few artificial feats at home they havent achieved anything in tests to be called a better team than the current Pak test team. One other thing the Indian team deserves credit to is good team selection at home grounds and Kohli winning most of the tosses in that purple patch season with cobra like spinning pitches and in turn opposition batted last on most occasions.

Agree with you on the first para but don't agree with you on the pitches part. Yes, those were some horrendous pitches India prepared in the series against South Africa but South Africa did pretty much the same when they prepared that minefield at Jo'burg and unlike the South Africans who were constantly complaining about the pitches in India, India never complained even though that Jo'burg pitch was very dangerous


The pitches debate is pointless at this point. Every team nowadays is preparing pitches that plays to their strengths in a major way. Even Bangladesh prepared spin-friendly pitches against Australia on which both teams were playing one seamer

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I agree India is a better team at home and the reasons are they actually play at home and can develop the type of rank turners they want and demolish the top sides who cant play that kind of spin in one season to achieve that no 1 rankings.

I know you have seen a lot of cricket but, do you genuinely feel that those home season pitches especially against SA was anywhere near an even battlefield. I know homes sides always have advantage of conditions but those pitches were laughable at certain points.

You can see numerous articles even by Indian news agencies that how controversial the pitches have been in India in the last decade or two. I havent seen that many controversies regarding pitches for any other cricketing nation.

Other than these few artificial feats at home they havent achieved anything in tests to be called a better team than the current Pak test team. One other thing the Indian team deserves credit to is good team selection at home grounds and Kohli winning most of the tosses in that purple patch season with cobra like spinning pitches and in turn opposition batted last on most occasions.

Agree with you on the first para but don't agree with you on the pitches part. Yes, those were some horrendous pitches India prepared in the series against South Africa but South Africa did pretty much the same when they prepared that minefield at Jo'burg and unlike the South Africans who were constantly complaining about the pitches in India, India never complained even though that Jo'burg pitch carried serious risk of causing injuries to the batsmen.

The pitches debate is pointless at this point. Every team nowadays is preparing pitches that plays to their strengths in a major way. Even Bangladesh prepared spin-friendly pitches against Australia on which both teams were playing one seamer.

 

[Titan24]

Agree with you on the first para but don't agree with you on the pitches part. Yes, those were some horrendous pitches India prepared in the series against South Africa but South Africa did pretty much the same when they prepared that minefield at Jo'burg and unlike the South Africans who were constantly complaining about the pitches in India, India never complained even though that Jo'burg pitch carried serious risk of causing injuries to the batsmen.

The pitches debate is pointless at this point. Every team nowadays is preparing pitches that plays to their strengths in a major way. Even Bangladesh prepared spin-friendly pitches against Australia on which both teams were playing one seamer.

Yes you are right that there is no point debating on pitches but people should realize that Pak doesnt have the luxury of other teams to create pitches that suit their kind of play. The best thing Pak achieves in UAE tests is slow turners which are not that much of a threat as the cobra like spinning pitches in Ind, Srl, Bng.

Give Yasir, Gohar, Shadab, Mir, Asghar, Nawaz etc those pitches even they will be able to bamboozle the teams under 200 regularly.

 

[Titan24]

Yes you are right that there is no point debating on pitches but people should realize that Pak doesnt have the luxury of other teams to create pitches that suit their kind of play. The best thing Pak achieves in UAE tests is slow turners which are not that much of a threat as the cobra like spinning pitches in Ind, Srl, Bng.

Give Yasir, Gohar, Shadab, Mir, Asghar, Nawaz etc those pitches even they will be able to bamboozle the teams under 200 regularly.

I can bet that even Gohar, Asghar and Mir who havent even debuted in tests can cause havoc on such pitches if developed in UAE.

 

[emm-tee]

The only people who are whining are delusional Pakistani fans who cannot digest the fact that India is a better team than Pakistan, and our only claim to fame is doing better than England in London venues.

These stats are not interesting. There is no breakdown of tours to explain how many matches Pakistan has played in XYZ countries with respect to other teams.

For example, a team that plays against weak teams away from home more often will have a good W/L ratio, however, it doesn’t make them good tourists.

Normally I ignore your posts and hardly ever post but help me understand how the above stats are nothing but "cute"?

I get the rankings. I get that India is number 1 test side but are you just going to ignore the fact that they have back to back series with Sri Lanka, boost their stats and get exposed so badly whenever they go away? Do you not see the trend? Do you not see their losses from winning positions?

Tell me the last time Pakistan actually played at HOME. Considering their home games are played in UAE, I think our stats are quite decent and something to be somewhat proud of. I would bet anything if other teams were forced to play like we do, exiled from home, they would be way worst than us.

Aren't we suppose to back our team and back our boys? When was the last time you genuinely supported our team and actually wrote something positive. I'd love to read a positive post from you for Team Pakistan, so please quote it here, if you can.

Considering we haven't had home games for many years, forced to play in UAE while others have their pitches tailor made to their strengths, our players are the only ones not included in IPL (I know the history and how our board messed up, but that's besides the point) I think you belittling the CT final and any other victory is quite pathetic.

Given all the negatives, I salute our team and our boys to still be so positive and play with so much passion while representing their country. Because I can guarantee if only a handful of people had your mindset, we would just give up playing cricket altogether and just stay home play QEA trophy and call it a day.

/endrant

 

[Usman Chadda]

I see people are now justifying criticism of India’s abysmal performance so far on overseas tours by belittling Pakistan’s number seven rank. Why is a number seven ranked team being brought up consistently? And here we were told Indian fans don’t care about Pakistan cricket

 

[RainMan_]

Really? So you're saying that Pakistan didn't beat Australia at Headingly in 2010? Or was that not away from home?

That was Pakistan's home series and should be treated as such. They were playing their home tests in England and had significant control over the pitches and how they would behave. If tomorrow Pakistan adopts Australia as their home ground In place of UAE and manage to beat couple of teams there, will u call it a away victory? That would be hilarious. R u one of those supporters who considers every match Pakistan plays in UAE as Away matches?

 

[RainMan_]

100%? You are talking about overseas only hopefully as Pak has beaten Aussies in the last home series and drew with SA.

Even .62 is a pretty good ratio in overseas and still higher than the rest except maybe Australia

Obviously I m talking away series. This thread is only about away victory, hence I thought about mentioning those stats.

And no, it's not even close. India has much higher win loss ratio away from home along with some other teams.

 

[mak36]

Normally I ignore your posts and hardly ever post but help me understand how the above stats are nothing but "cute"?

I get the rankings. I get that India is number 1 test side but are you just going to ignore the fact that they have back to back series with Sri Lanka, boost their stats and get exposed so badly whenever they go away? Do you not see the trend? Do you not see their losses from winning positions?

Tell me the last time Pakistan actually played at HOME. Considering their home games are played in UAE, I think our stats are quite decent and something to be somewhat proud of. I would bet anything if other teams were forced to play like we do, exiled from home, they would be way worst than us.

Aren't we suppose to back our team and back our boys? When was the last time you genuinely supported our team and actually wrote something positive. I'd love to read a positive post from you for Team Pakistan, so please quote it here, if you can.

Considering we haven't had home games for many years, forced to play in UAE while others have their pitches tailor made to their strengths, our players are the only ones not included in IPL (I know the history and how our board messed up, but that's besides the point) I think you belittling the CT final and any other victory is quite pathetic.

Given all the negatives, I salute our team and our boys to still be so positive and play with so much passion while representing their country. Because I can guarantee if only a handful of people had your mindset, we would just give up playing cricket altogether and just stay home play QEA trophy and call it a day.

/endrant

Beautiful post.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Normally I ignore your posts and hardly ever post but help me understand how the above stats are nothing but "cute"?

I get the rankings. I get that India is number 1 test side but are you just going to ignore the fact that they have back to back series with Sri Lanka, boost their stats and get exposed so badly whenever they go away? Do you not see the trend? Do you not see their losses from winning positions?

Tell me the last time Pakistan actually played at HOME. Considering their home games are played in UAE, I think our stats are quite decent and something to be somewhat proud of. I would bet anything if other teams were forced to play like we do, exiled from home, they would be way worst than us.

Aren't we suppose to back our team and back our boys? When was the last time you genuinely supported our team and actually wrote something positive. I'd love to read a positive post from you for Team Pakistan, so please quote it here, if you can.

Considering we haven't had home games for many years, forced to play in UAE while others have their pitches tailor made to their strengths, our players are the only ones not included in IPL (I know the history and how our board messed up, but that's besides the point) I think you belittling the CT final and any other victory is quite pathetic.

Given all the negatives, I salute our team and our boys to still be so positive and play with so much passion while representing their country. Because I can guarantee if only a handful of people had your mindset, we would just give up playing cricket altogether and just stay home play QEA trophy and call it a day.

/endrant

Cue the line about [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] getting disheartened at the sorry state of Pakistan cricket and how he has made peace with the fact that nothing will change

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

That was Pakistan's home series and should be treated as such. They were playing their home tests in England and had significant control over the pitches and how they would behave. If tomorrow Pakistan adopts Australia as their home ground In place of UAE and manage to beat couple of teams there, will u call it a away victory? That would be hilarious. R u one of those supporters who considers every match Pakistan plays in UAE as Away matches?

This is probably one of the most hilarious things I've ever read. Seriously beginning to doubt if you've ever even watched cricket.

Let me jog your memory. That series was played in England. Remember England? In England, the weather is cold, there are often clouds in the sky and the ball swings and seams. Conditions that are not favored by by any Asian team including Pakistan. In that match 34 out of 37 wickets were taken by seamers. Not spinners, seamers.

If Pakistan had control over the pitch. Heck, if this was even possible in England. They would have dished out a turner and whiffed out the Australian batsmen even cheaply

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes you are right that there is no point debating on pitches but people should realize that Pak doesnt have the luxury of other teams to create pitches that suit their kind of play. The best thing Pak achieves in UAE tests is slow turners which are not that much of a threat as the cobra like spinning pitches in Ind, Srl, Bng.

Give Yasir, Gohar, Shadab, Mir, Asghar, Nawaz etc those pitches even they will be able to bamboozle the teams under 200 regularly.

I think first Pakistan need to actually select 2 spinners in UAE and not just Yasir and a three-man pace attack

 

[IMMY69]

Pakistan clearly the most talented nation in the world.
India, sorry to say this, the least talented nation in the world.

Poor Indians

 

[emm-tee]

Beautiful post.

Thank you.
I'm waiting for him to write an essay how we are the worst team in the world to play test cricket and how Pandya is the second coming of Sobers.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

That was Pakistan's home series and should be treated as such. They were playing their home tests in England and had significant control over the pitches and how they would behave. If tomorrow Pakistan adopts Australia as their home ground In place of UAE and manage to beat couple of teams there, will u call it a away victory? That would be hilarious. R u one of those supporters who considers every match Pakistan plays in UAE as Away matches?

By that analogy Pakistan's 'home' series against New Zealand in New Zealand in 2009 shouldn't be considered since it was Pakistan's home series and should be treated as such

 

[kuskash]

Wow, Aus also lost the most. Unexpected.

 

[msb314]

The nineties Zimbabwe team was pretty good, and far better than the 2010 teams. Losing a Test to Zimbabwe in 2013 is 10x worse than getting whitewashed in a major country.

I think you are being nitpicky here.

Cannot just mention "one off" Tests that we have lost without taking into account the bigger picture.

Even England lost a test at home against a very poor WI side last year yet are knocking on the door for the no. 1 spot no.

Similarly - Australia lost 3-0 against a poor SL side post Sanga / Mahela era in 2015.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

I remember people knocking Pakistan's no 1 ranking saying the rankings are meaningless. Now No 7 ranking is indicative of a poor team. Can't have it both ways.

Take out Pakistan's record in Australia, and it is clear Pakistan is a good touring team.

They occasionally lose tests to teams they have not business losing but they are always good value overseas.

They have played only one series in South Africa in the last 7 or 8 years so the upcoming one will be quite indicative of where they stand.

However, their Australia record is embarrassing. There are no two ways about it. I don't see it fixing anytime soon either.

 

[IMMY69]

I remember people knocking Pakistan's no 1 ranking saying the rankings are meaningless. Now No 7 ranking is indicative of a poor team. Can't have it both ways.

Take out Pakistan's record in Australia, and it is clear Pakistan is a good touring team.

They occasionally lose tests to teams they have not business losing but they are always good value overseas.

They have played only one series in South Africa in the last 7 or 8 years so the upcoming one will be quite indicative of where they stand.

However, their Australia record is embarrassing. There are no two ways about it. I don't see it fixing anytime soon either.

Mate all arguments go out of the window when you consider the true facts. I.e

Pakistan Population vs Indian Population

Indian Money vs Pakistany money

Rest of the world professionalism vs Pakistan Professionalism

Different first class systems vs Pakistany FC system

and here’s the big one,

No International Cricket in Pakistan since 2009...

Yet despite all this we won the 2009 world T20,
Semi finalists in two other tournaments, won the CT2017,
Remained unbeaten against England in England (slaughtered them in the UAE),
Hit number 1 in tests for a brief period and are number 1 T20’s...

All this is a miracle given our situation.

It must pain some fans to think that Pakistan can beat them despite all this.

 

[bujhee kom]

So Pakistan has won 3 tests against England, South Africa and Australia in fewer tests, while India has won 2 in 27.

Interesting.

 

[Mamoon]

Since everyone is reading off the same script, it is difficult to reply individually without repeating the same points.
[MENTION=138408]emm-tee[/MENTION] [MENTION=146217]InziRules[/MENTION] and others.

This "we play our home matches in the UAE please give us extra brownie points" card is getting stale now. The UAE pitches are heavily geared towards Asian teams because they have nothing in it for the fast bowlers and become very spin friendly from day three onwards.

If India were to play their home games in the UAE, they wouldn't start losing series to South Africa, Australia, England etc. In fact, they would do better than us because their batting and their spin attack is stronger.

In fact, playing in the UAE has actually benefited us as a team; on the relatively quicker wickets of Pakistan, we lost matches and series regularly - we had a poor home record in the 90s and also in the 2000s, but the UAE pitches have played into our hands because our shaking batting was not exposed.

As far as our away performances are concerned, as I explained earlier, apart from winning in London, we have not uprooted any trees. We have lost matches in Zimbabwe, West Indies and are the worst team in the world in Australia. We were also blanked on our last tours of South Africa and New Zealand. We won our last series in Sri Lanka, but we were also blanked there in 2014.


Apart from England tours, India have outperformed us home and away. They are simply a better side and deserved to be ranked higher than us. period.

 

[hadi123]

Since everyone is reading off the same script, it is difficult to reply individually without repeating the same points.
[MENTION=138408]emm-tee[/MENTION] [MENTION=146217]InziRules[/MENTION] and others.

This "we play our home matches in the UAE please give us extra brownie points" card is getting stale now. The UAE pitches are heavily geared towards Asian teams because they have nothing in it for the fast bowlers and become very spin friendly from day three onwards.

If India were to play their home games in the UAE, they wouldn't start losing series to South Africa, Australia, England etc. In fact, they would do better than us because their batting and their spin attack is stronger.

In fact, playing in the UAE has actually benefited us as a team; on the relatively quicker wickets of Pakistan, we lost matches and series regularly - we had a poor home record in the 90s and also in the 2000s, but the UAE pitches have played into our hands because our shaking batting was not exposed.

As far as our away performances are concerned, as I explained earlier, apart from winning in London, we have not uprooted any trees. We have lost matches in Zimbabwe, West Indies and are the worst team in the world in Australia. We were also blanked on our last tours of South Africa and New Zealand. We won our last series in Sri Lanka, but we were also blanked there in 2014.


Apart from England tours, India have outperformed us home and away. They are simply a better side and deserved to be ranked higher than us. period.

Seriously? I've heard of terms like Home track bullies, flat track bullies etc which are valid arguments but never have I seen a fan put a performance down to a city. This is a new low. A new term has been born ladies and gentlemen. LTB - London Track bullies

 

[InziRules]

Seriously? I've heard of terms like Home track bullies, flat track bullies etc which are valid arguments but never have I seen a fan put a performance down to a city. This is a new low. A new term has been born ladies and gentlemen. LTB - London Track bullies

I also don't get it. Instead of saying England, he goes London.

 

[Mamoon]

Seriously? I've heard of terms like Home track bullies, flat track bullies etc which are valid arguments but never have I seen a fan put a performance down to a city. This is a new low. A new term has been born ladies and gentlemen. LTB - London Track bullies

I am not taking credit away from Pakistan, but it is interesting to note that we have lost every non-London Test since Old Trafford 2001, but at Lords and Oval, we continue to be very strong. Clearly those venues favor us, it cannot be a coincidence.

 

[Mamoon]

I also don't get it. Instead of saying England, he goes London.

That is because we haven't won a Test outside the London venues (Lords and Oval) since winning at Old Trafford when people were still watching movies on VHS tapes.

 

[hadi123]

I am not taking credit away from Pakistan, but it is interesting to note that we have lost every non-London Test since Old Trafford 2001, but at Lords and Oval, we continue to be very strong. Clearly those venues favor us, it cannot be a coincidence.

So, what's your point? Why are you reducing it down to the cities to criticize Pakistan? Test series are played at different venues for a reason, the Test series was between England and Pakistan, not London and Pakistan. I'm not saying it's a coincidence either, we must have something that benefits us in London which is why we do good there but you can't use that to downplay Pakistan. Also, Pakistan beat Australia in Leeds.

 

[Mamoon]

So, what's your point? Why are you reducing it down to the cities to criticize Pakistan? Test series are played at different venues for a reason, the Test series was between England and Pakistan, not London and Pakistan. I'm not saying it's a coincidence either, we must have something that benefits us in London which is why we do good there but you can't use that to downplay Pakistan. Also, Pakistan beat Australia in Leeds.

Yes they did, but I am talking about Pakistan vs England. Of course it is fine to say that Pakistan have had a good record in England, but I think it is also pertinent to break it down further to show how we have had a 100% losing record against England in non-London venues for 17 years now.

 

[hadi123]

I also don't get it. Instead of saying England, he goes London.

I don't get it either. Next he'll be saying stuff like Pakistan only win games on Sundays. I think he is just clutching at straws. The more important thing is that Pakistan have a great record in England recently, haven't lost a series there since 2010 but when we've hosted England, we have beat them easily.

 

[Ab Fan]

That is because we haven't won a Test outside the London venues (Lords and Oval) since winning at Old Trafford when people were still watching movies on VHS tapes.

But isn't this a venue where pretty much every country plays one match in each and every tours? Lords is referred as home of cricket and if Pakistan are doing well, then it is rather a blessing in disguise for you guys.

The WC finals and the biggest matches in England are all played in Lords only. Your runs and wickets gets special honour when they have come on Lords.

 

[InziRules]

Yes they did, but I am talking about Pakistan vs England. Of course it is fine to say that Pakistan have had a good record in England, but I think it is also pertinent to break it down further to show how we have had a 100% losing record against England in non-London venues for 17 years now.

India hasn't won outside Johannesberg since when?

 

[hadi123]

Yes they did, but I am talking about Pakistan vs England. Of course it is fine to say that Pakistan have had a good record in England, but I think it is also pertinent to break it down further to show how we have had a 100% losing record against England in non-London venues for 17 years now.

So what. Test series are a cumulative effort (yes, took your own words from your post in a thread about rankings). In the Premier League, a team could win the league despite having a bad record in a certain city.

 

[Mamoon]

India hasn't won outside Johannesberg since when?

They have done better than us in South Africa.

 

[Mamoon]

So what. Test series are a cumulative effort (yes, took your own words from your post in a thread about rankings). In the Premier League, a team could win the league despite having a bad record in a certain city.

Of course, and the team that wins the most points overall wins the trophy. Having a better record against one particular team means nothing, so no one cares if Pakistan are better than India in England. Overall, India is better in most countries and that is why they are ranked better.

 

[Mamoon]

I don't get it either. Next he'll be saying stuff like Pakistan only win games on Sundays. I think he is just clutching at straws. The more important thing is that Pakistan have a great record in England recently, haven't lost a series there since 2010 but when we've hosted England, we have beat them easily.

I think the only clutching at straws on this forum over the last couple of weeks has been how Pakistan is better than India in England while ignoring everything else. Okay we get it - Pakistan is better than India in England, so what do we do now? Does performing better in England negate everything else? Perhaps ICC should base their rankings based on how teams do in the "Home of Cricket".

 

[Mamoon]

But isn't this a venue where pretty much every country plays one match in each and every tours? Lords is referred as home of cricket and if Pakistan are doing well, then it is rather a blessing in disguise for you guys.

The WC finals and the biggest matches in England are all played in Lords only. Your runs and wickets gets special honour when they have come on Lords.

Indeed. I am actually proud of the fact that we do well in the most historic ground in the world.

 

[Usman Chadda]

What happens if this Pakistan team ends up nicking a test in South Africa later this year? What will be the excuses then?

 

[hadi123]

Of course, and the team that wins the most points overall wins the trophy. Having a better record against one particular team means nothing, so no one cares if Pakistan are better than India in England. Overall, India is better in most countries and that is why they are ranked better.

Yes I agree but your London argument is flawed.

 

[hadi123]

I think the only clutching at straws on this forum over the last couple of weeks has been how Pakistan is better than India in England while ignoring everything else. Okay we get it - Pakistan is better than India in England, so what do we do now? Does performing better in England negate everything else? Perhaps ICC should base their rankings based on how teams do in the "Home of Cricket".

Yep some people have been doing that, but I'm not one of those people. I am naturally happy that India lost but I'm not claiming that Pakistan are a better Test team than India. I agree with you that some fans are using this to claim we are better than India, so let's end this mini debate seeing as we both agree on this.

 

[Mamoon]

What happens if this Pakistan team ends up nicking a test in South Africa later this year? What will be the excuses then?

I think we cannot discount that there will be no de Villiers who was crucial in helping South Africa win the series. However, I expect South Africa to win the series comfortably if they dish out the same pitches that they did for India.

 

[Mamoon]

Yep some people have been doing that, but I'm not one of those people. I am naturally happy that India lost but I'm not claiming that Pakistan are a better Test team than India. I agree with you that some fans are using this to claim we are better than India, so let's end this mini debate seeing as we both agree on this.

I am not talking about you. It was a general statement.

 

[hadi123]

I am not talking about you. It was a general statement.

Yes I know that.

Our record in England is definitely something to be proud of, and even though India are miles ahead of us in the rankings, it is naturally, in any sport, a good feeling when your arch rivals lose, especially when they play like minnows and are trashed.

 

[Sam99]

We indians have worst records in overseas against top sides and many felt it might be changed after virat the 'Aggressive' captain will tour these countries.

 

[The_Odd_One]

What happens if this Pakistan team ends up nicking a test in South Africa later this year? What will be the excuses then?

No Devilliers or fluke.