What's new

The 27th Amendment: Dictatorship Codified

Are the main items in 27th Amendment, the final nail in the coffin of Pakistan’s democracy?


  • Total voters
    11
Interesting take!

I understand that Pakistan’s situation is unique where no PM was able to complete their full term. But it also signified that, judiciary is balancing parliament which infact is a good thing. What was actually lagging was the unchecked power of the establishment / army. I understand your point you wanted to empower PM but you are weakening the judiciary in such a way that establishment further is unchecked.

The concept if immunity for COAS is farcical. This only means that, he knows he will be involved in politics and he doesn't want politicians to come back at him.

This move removes accountability on so many levels.
The decisions by some previous judges have made it evident that their powers must be restricted otherwise they will never allow parliament to run properly. In india supreme court can only take action when there is any changes done in basic structure of their constitution.

But pakistan me aaway ka aawaa hi bigraa hua hai

Even an office boy in government offices are more powerful than CEOs of private companies.
 
This is not the gotcha you think it is. I agree there is forces influence in politics and we are not a true democracy in that sense but that is how we have been since 14 Aug 1947. It s however getting better. What I dont agree is that elections were rigged just because IK lost.

There are no saints in politics. It is the hypocrisy of PTI supporters which gets me. Head in the sand when IK and QB were ruling roost eh?
Its not a gotcha( that happened with your stupidity on the governor of Punjab), it points your own contradictions and stupidity. You cant on the one hand claim there is no evidence and then at the same time claim its been going on since 1947. Yes,we know its been going on since 1947 and today we have another Martial Law with the criminal Munir at its help. PK cannot move forward when losers dont even understand their own contradictory posts.
 
Its not a gotcha( that happened with your stupidity on the governor of Punjab), it points your own contradictions and stupidity. You cant on the one hand claim there is no evidence and then at the same time claim its been going on since 1947. Yes,we know its been going on since 1947 and today we have another Martial Law with the criminal Munir at its help. PK cannot move forward when losers dont even understand their own contradictory posts.
You are a sellout using Hindvata logic and calling our biggest patriot a criminal. No point arguing with you. No wonder Emranabbas did not bother with you after owning you ad nauseam.
 
You are a sellout using Hindvata logic and calling our biggest patriot a criminal. No point arguing with you. No wonder Emranabbas did not bother with you after owning you ad nauseam.
This is just embarrassing. You have admitted he broke his oath to Allah and then you call him a patriot. Surely the Modi cow farms have better trolls.🤣🤣🤣
 
You are a sellout using Hindvata logic and calling our biggest patriot a criminal. No point arguing with you. No wonder Emranabbas did not bother with you after owning you ad nauseam.

What is a hybrid regime Khwaja talks about? Is that legal and doesnt it go against the oath they take. Don't tell me Khwaja is also against you guys
 
army chiefs in Pak throughout history have been imprisoning prime ministers, leaders, going over elected governments and judiciary. Am I too far off saying that? What is this amendment going to achieve? Is there something that wasn’t already there lol? What am I missing? Simplified explanation for a noob please 🙏
 
army chiefs in Pak throughout history have been imprisoning prime ministers, leaders, going over elected governments and judiciary. Am I too far off saying that? What is this amendment going to achieve? Is there something that wasn’t already there lol? What am I missing? Simplified explanation for a noob please 🙏
Mushraff could still have a case against him for what he did.. don’t think it can be done anymore.. anyone can correct me..
 
Mushraff could still have a case against him for what he did.. don’t think it can be done anymore.. anyone can correct me..
When someone really with a vendetta against Asim Munir (ex Imran) comes back, this amendment will also go in the dustbin I feel. That’s what I am not understanding why so much hulla.
 
When someone really with a vendetta against Asim Munir (ex Imran) comes back, this amendment will also go in the dustbin I feel. That’s what I am not understanding why so much hulla.
You expect Imran to come back? FM is even younger to IK.. also bringing down an amendment is literally next to impossible, Pak Army needed complete set of clowns/opportunists to even let this pass.
 
So Amin uddin stooge becomes the Head of CC , with his retirement just a fortnight to finish, but with this 27 amen he gets 3 more yrs.
 
So Amin uddin stooge becomes the Head of CC , with his retirement just a fortnight to finish, but with this 27 amen he gets 3 more yrs.
This isnt a SC or a Constitutional court, its a court of crooks who have videos of them doing some dirty things and have been blackmailed.
 

What is a hybrid regime Khwaja talks about? Is that legal and doesnt it go against the oath they take. Don't tell me Khwaja is also against you guys
Are you dense? Every one and their dog knows that the forces have an influence. This is how it has been since our inception. They have more of a role than in some other countries and in an ideal world that should be the case for us. Now is not that time though with IK looting and destroying the country during his tenure and Ind+Afg and all internal proxies baying for us.

Khwaja also made it clear that he has ultimate authority on defense matters as defense minister.
 
Are you dense? Every one and their dog knows that the forces have an influence. This is how it has been since our inception. They have more of a role than in some other countries and in an ideal world that should be the case for us. Now is not that time though with IK looting and destroying the country during his tenure and Ind+Afg and all internal proxies baying for us.

Khwaja also made it clear that he has ultimate authority on defense matters as defense minister.
But you wanted evidence. On the one hand, you are saying they break their oath and hold PK hostage and are good to break up the country but you still want evidence. Are you totally stupid or just an idiot.
 
But you wanted evidence. On the one hand, you are saying they break their oath and hold PK hostage and are good to break up the country but you still want evidence. Are you totally stupid or just an idiot.
I never said they broke their oath and hold us hostage. Show proof or leave the forum. Your 2 pound teaching job is not fit to shine the boots of FM or MN. Remember that.
 

Opposition alliance rejects 27th Amendment, unveils protest plan for November 21​

The Tehreek-e-Tahaffuz-e-Ain Pakistan, rejected the 27th Constitutional Amendment in its entirety, announcing a nationwide Black Day on November 21 and a series of democratic protests aimed at what it described as the ‘restoration of the Constitution to its original form.’

The statement comes a day after President Asif Ali Zardari signed the 27th Amendment bill, which is now part of the Constitution, while the meeting also condemned the 26th Constitutional Amendment passed last year in 2024. The declaration followed an emergency meeting of the TTAP, chaired by Mahmood Khan Achakzai in Islamabad on Friday.

The huddle brought together senior leaders of major opposition parties, including Asad Qaiser, Secretary General of TTAP; Allama Raja Nasir Abbas, Chairman of Majlis Wahdat-e-Muslimeen; Barrister Gohar Khan, Chair of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI); Salman Ikram Raja, Secretary General of PTI; Akhtar Mengal, Chairman of the Balochistan National Party; Zain Shah of the Sindh United Party; Sajid Tarin of the Balochistan National Party; and TTAP Vice Chairman Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar, among others.

Following the meeting, TTAP issued a strongly worded statement accusing the government of destroying the foundational structure of the Constitution. Describing both the 27th and 26th amendments as an attack on the state’s core pillars, it argued that the changes had “subordinated the judiciary to the executive” and were introduced on a “personal basis.”

 
President Asif Ali Zardari has signed three laws related to the Pakistan Armed Forces, passed by both houses of Parliament under the 27th Constitutional Amendment.

The President gave assent to the Pakistan Army (Amendment) Bill 2025, Pakistan Air Force (Amendment) Bill 2025, and Pakistan Navy (Amendment) Bill 2025, making them acts of Parliament.

 
So the judges who have resigned so far ,the number goes to 4.
Unfortunately too little, too late. The SC bottled it after IK legally called for an election, they bottled it again after the Punjab and KP elections decision was never implemented and they bottled it again when the reserves seats decision.was ignored by the Munir and the Junta
 
Amal Wali Khan once said ‘We only need ‘honest’ judges like Qazi Faez Isa.

Wah kya naek khayalat hain…lol No wonder our judiciary is ranked so low in the world.

Justice Aminuddin is another ‘Ameen’ judge like Isa.
 
Amal Wali Khan once said ‘We only need ‘honest’ judges like Qazi Faez Isa.

Wah kya naek khayalat hain…lol No wonder our judiciary is ranked so low in the world.

Justice Aminuddin is another ‘Ameen’ judge like Isa.
The law abiding judges have long gone from any decision making. The SC and the High courts are nothing more than Ardalis who rubber stamp the decision. Qazi and Afridi were the biggest beghairat and history will remember them as such but Amin udeen will fear death just as much. Small men in big offices
 
The law abiding judges have long gone from any decision making. The SC and the High courts are nothing more than Ardalis who rubber stamp the decision. Qazi and Afridi were the biggest beghairat and history will remember them as such but Amin udeen will fear death just as much. Small men in big offices
True

Sad and depressing state of affairs
 
True

Sad and depressing state of affairs
They are goading the public to come on the streets as they shut every avenue of Justice and Public representation. Sooner or later, the public will do so. The economy is destroyed and the millions have fled since they have come to power.
 
Too much is being made of this amendment. Overall it changes nothing for the common man. I am sure FM himself will push to have this reversed once the threats on our east and west subside.
 
This is one of the darkest moments in Pakistan’s history. The corrupt may have gotten away before, but at least there used to be a system, however flawed, to hold them accountable. Now we’re living under an outright dictatorship, and the current politicians are nothing more than puppets, playing their part to let the dictator rule exactly as he wishes.
 
They are goading the public to come on the streets as they shut every avenue of Justice and Public representation. Sooner or later, the public will do so. The economy is destroyed and the millions have fled since they have come to power.

Punjabis have to break a multi-millenial behavioral trend to do so.

Be it the Mughals, Sikhs, British etc they always fold without even a whimper.
 
There is no accountability left in this country... You cannot question these people holding powerful positions.. They can loot this country as they have been doing for decades, and now there is no law to hold them accountable.

Congrats Pakistan...
 
It is good to see the only general to have decisively won a war against India and it is fitting that a greatful nation gives him immunity and makes him field marshall for life. I only wish in India we have a culture to worship our military generals...they are just salaried servants of the country and can't even do good media management. Doesnt deserve to be field marshall for just attaining complete military success
..need to fool the awam too for greatness
 
I did not want to say it like this but FM is here to stay. If you don't like it you are an enemy of the state and a closet Afg/Ind/Ik supporter. Please put nation first.
 
I did not want to say it like this but FM is here to stay. If you don't like it you are an enemy of the state and a closet Afg/Ind/Ik supporter. Please put nation first.
I don’t care about what goes on in Pakistan. I have wasted so much of my mental energy thinking and worrying. I’ve made my peace with it now. Nothing’s going to change. Pakistan will remain a poor third world country under the dictatorship of corrupt military generals. My only wish is that i could get all of my family members and loved ones out of that country.
 
I don’t care about what goes on in Pakistan. I have wasted so much of my mental energy thinking and worrying. I’ve made my peace with it now. Nothing’s going to change. Pakistan will remain a poor third world country under the dictatorship of corrupt military generals. My only wish is that i could get all of my family members and loved ones out of that country.
Yes because under Mr Goldsmith it was Switzerland. Get out.
 
Be respectful or you won't get any replies Bewala
I normally stay away from families unless they have fed their kids haraam.

So Reply son. After your abuse I won't hold back. You can start by explaining your birth on the roads of Alum Rock. And dont blame me, blame the sod that did it. If you find out, I will curse him/them for giving their DNA to a useless cretin like you.
 

LHC judge Shams Mahmood Mirza resigns after 27th Amendment​

Lahore High Court (LHC) Justice Shams Mahmood Mirza has resigned from his position, becoming the first LHC judge to step down in the aftermath of the 27th Constitutional Amendment.

Justice Mirza has formally submitted his resignation to the president of Pakistan.

Justice Mirza’s resignation comes amid expectations that he would be transferred following the passage of the 27th Constitutional Amendment. He vacated his chamber shortly after sending his resignation, signaling an immediate departure from judicial duties.

According to available details, Justice Shams Mahmood Mirza was originally set to retire in 2028.

Reference pending against judge
A reference had also been filed against Justice Mirza in the Supreme Judicial Council (SJC) earlier this year, in January.

The existence of the reference, combined with the anticipated transfer under the new amendment, formed a backdrop to his decision to resign.

On Nov 13, in a significant development, Supreme Court Justices Mansoor Ali Shah and Athar Minallah had tendered their resignations to President Asif Ali Zardari. The move came as Pakistan’s judiciary underwent major changes.

Justice Mansoor Ali Shah submitted a 13-page resignation to the president, strongly criticizing the 27th Constitutional Amendment. He wrote that the amendment dealt a “severe blow” to the Supreme Court and amounted to an “attack on the Constitution.”

He stated that the changes had made justice distant from the common man, arguing that the judiciary had now become subordinate to the government. In his resignation, he lamented that the independence of the judiciary — the country’s last hope for justice — had been compromised.

Justice Shah’s resignation also included poems by renowned Urdu poet Ahmed Faraz, symbolizing his deep sense of disappointment and loss.

“By dividing the country’s highest court and trampling on judicial independence, the nation has been pushed back decades,” he wrote, adding that history shows such constitutional disruptions never last, but their scars remain.

Justice Minallah: ‘Constitution I swore to protect no longer exists’

Justice Athar Minallah, in his resignation, took an equally strong stance, asserting that the 27th Amendment has effectively abolished the Constitution he had sworn to uphold.

He wrote, “The Constitution that I took an oath to protect is no longer in its original form. No matter how much I try to console myself, it is impossible to deny the fact that the new foundations are being laid on the grave of the Constitution.”

Justice Minallah recalled his 11-year judicial journey, beginning as a judge of the Islamabad High Court, then Chief Justice of the IHC, and later as a judge of the Supreme Court. He said that during his service, his only promise was to protect the original Constitution — not its altered version.

He also mentioned that he had raised serious concerns about the proposed 27th Amendment, even writing a letter to Chief Justice Yahya Afridi to express his reservations, which he now believes have proven true.

“These robes judges wear are a symbol of great trust,” he wrote. “Yet, in history, they have too often symbolized silence and expediency.”

Concluding his letter, Justice Minallah said, “It is my hope that future generations will see this robe not as a mark of treason, but as a symbol of honesty. With that hope, I am taking it off forever.”

Source: SAMAA
 
Now bacha bacha knows that Pakistan military (read military high command) is part of the problem. The generals are just paid mercenaries of the US, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar etc. The Uk and Turkey are also part of this international establishment. These powers use our military for their vested interests in the region or to change governments in Pakistan that are seemingly not complying with US interests in the region.

Ayesha Sidduqa rightly exposed military’s unchecked power and control and their corrupt practices in her book ‘Military Inc.’ during Musharraf’s time. She is not anti-Pakistan or anti-military / soldiers defending our borders. She did not abuse the military, only stated facts / exposed the corrupt practices of the military high command, yet she was forced to leave the country! So much for tolerance of differing opinions in the society.

Which military in the world runs parallel businesses? DHA, Askari cement, Fauji foods, fauji fertiliser, Askari bank, fauji this fauji that! The military has occupied acres of prime land in every major city. They even shut down the flourishing the Monal restaurant in Islamabad (popular recreation for locals, diplomats and tourists) in the name of security! Mulk ko mazaaq bana k rakh diya hai…

Imran Khan did make a few mistakes but everyone knows that he is not dishonest or corrupt. There is a difference between ‘himaqat’ and ‘khayanat’. Imran did not make any personal gain from The Al-Qadir Trust or Malik Riaz. That money is still in the supreme court’s bank account.

Maryam Nawaz spent millions of rupees (tax payers money) on promoting health care in Punjab. Yet Nawaz and co. go abroad for medical treatment. Is there not a single hospital in Punjab that could treat these ‘ashrafiya’ (read ‘badmaashia’ as Hasan Nisar refers to them!). Do people not see the irony?
 
Love it when pti fans cry and no one listens to them. Great ammendment to the constitution. Imran and his cult should be treated harshly.

Munir is going no where inshallah
 
Winston Churchill Sacrificed 4000 Men Against Nazi to distract them and evacuate Entire British Army from beaches of Dunkirk. The idea of Sacrificing lives for greater purposes is not alien to this world
Sacrifice is an individual choice, Winston the racist angraiz kutta ordered those men to sacrifice their lives and forced many from the colonies across the British empire to fight a war they had nothing to do with.

I understand the idea that you’re trying to communicate but this is one of the worst examples you could’ve chosen.
 
Unfortunately too little, too late. The SC bottled it after IK legally called for an election, they bottled it again after the Punjab and KP elections decision was never implemented and they bottled it again when the reserves seats decision.was ignored by the Munir and the Junta
I think, if I’m not wrong, it all started from the point when Imran, during the NA session, rejected the no-confidence motion and called for elections, which wasn’t constitutionally possible.

Prior to that, Asif Zardari had given IK/PTI plenty of time to call for fresh elections. He clearly asked them to announce elections while they were busy pushing the no-confidence motion in the NA, but IK/PTI said, “Dekha jayega.”

The opposition secured their numbers and pushed the no-confidence motion, and then IK/PTI rejected it in the NA, claiming it was a conspiracy against them only for that decision to be overturned by the Supreme Court later.

So it all started from there. If IK had called elections then, we wouldn’t be seeing this situation today.
 
Appropriately defined Churchil.
Approximately 2.5 million Indian soldiers participated in the World Wars. Thousands died.

Yet when you see Spielberg and Nolan's WW movies, its always white folks. These shameless people can't even honour the brown soldiers who fought on their behalf when they had no reason to be there.

My own family members participated in world wars and one of my great uncles lost his life fighting in Europe
 
I think, if I’m not wrong, it all started from the point when Imran, during the NA session, rejected the no-confidence motion and called for elections, which wasn’t constitutionally possible.

Prior to that, Asif Zardari had given IK/PTI plenty of time to call for fresh elections. He clearly asked them to announce elections while they were busy pushing the no-confidence motion in the NA, but IK/PTI said, “Dekha jayega.”

The opposition secured their numbers and pushed the no-confidence motion, and then IK/PTI rejected it in the NA, claiming it was a conspiracy against them only for that decision to be overturned by the Supreme Court later.

So it all started from there. If IK had called elections then, we wouldn’t be seeing this situation today.
The opposition had Bajwa and his tanks behind them. Epstein emails prove that Bajwa was part of a much bigger conspiracy against IK. @Major was the coup organic 🤣🤣🥰
 
The opposition had Bajwa and his tanks behind them. Epstein emails prove that Bajwa was part of a much bigger conspiracy against IK. @Major was the coup organic 🤣🤣🥰
Thats what i am saying. Bajwa gave safe passage to IK to call new elections and exit peacefully but he took other turn.
Also when IK removed Asim munir from ISI, it started the storm. That is the power of men in uniform in Pakistan.
 
PPP-PML-N mafia were already looting the country with both hands.
The only thing that has changed after the 27th amendment is that the military has now got legal cover to do as it pleases. The military is hand and gloves with this mafia.
Ab teenon mil kar mulk ko lootein gey! and will keep fooling the gullible masses in the name of Islam, India, Afghanistan and terrorism.
PPP and PML-N have realised that the military will never go of its power in Pakistan. Hence they do not have a problem with becoming ‘dummy’ President and PM as long as the two parasite families can make more money and enjoy ayyashian
 
I think, if I’m not wrong, it all started from the point when Imran, during the NA session, rejected the no-confidence motion and called for elections, which wasn’t constitutionally possible.

Prior to that, Asif Zardari had given IK/PTI plenty of time to call for fresh elections. He clearly asked them to announce elections while they were busy pushing the no-confidence motion in the NA, but IK/PTI said, “Dekha jayega.”

The opposition secured their numbers and pushed the no-confidence motion, and then IK/PTI rejected it in the NA, claiming it was a conspiracy against them only for that decision to be overturned by the Supreme Court later.

So it all started from there. If IK had called elections then, we wouldn’t be seeing this situation today.
He made some big blunders in the heat of the moment; now I wonder if he was compromised internally to make them.

I still cannot fathom how he voluntarily gave up Punjab. That was the final nail in the coffin. Had he managed to hold that for a bit longer a street movement could have been galvanised as it would have had a power centre.
 
Sacrifice is an individual choice, Winston the racist angraiz kutta ordered those men to sacrifice their lives and forced many from the colonies across the British empire to fight a war they had nothing to do with.

I understand the idea that you’re trying to communicate but this is one of the worst examples you could’ve chosen.
i was talking about Siege of Calais by German Panzer Division. those were white Men who stayed and Resisted Germans. So im not sure how does that make Churchil Racist because he told them they wont be rescued.

Sacrifice was given by Soldiers and not Churchill so yes Idea of Sacrifice for greater good still applies here
 
Love it when pti fans cry and no one listens to them. Great ammendment to the constitution. Imran and his cult should be treated harshly.

Munir is going no where inshallah

In your Head Everyone who Criticizes Munir and his corrupt regime must be PTI fans. This is nicest of Defelections Army fanboys like you been relying on to counter genuine criticism.

No doubt if given the choice , Munir will treat 3/4 Pakistanis as cult and give them belt treatment as long as he can stay in power and you will dance to it
 
He made some big blunders in the heat of the moment; now I wonder if he was compromised internally to make them.

I still cannot fathom how he voluntarily gave up Punjab. That was the final nail in the coffin. Had he managed to hold that for a bit longer a street movement could have been galvanised as it would have had a power centre.

So Justifcation for stealing elections later on in 2024 is that Imran khan made some political blunders and Decisions that were not in line with constitution? this gives current regime free pass to do anything? Decision to not vote on No cofidence was overturned by SC and he accepted it. Later on his party was awarded Reserved Seats by Full court Majority and Government of Shehbaz completly refused to accept it or implement it. That was new low in constitutional history of Pak and pales in front of IK's attempt to evade VONC
 
So Justifcation for stealing elections later on in 2024 is that Imran khan made some political blunders and Decisions that were not in line with constitution? this gives current regime free pass to do anything? Decision to not vote on No cofidence was overturned by SC and he accepted it. Later on his party was awarded Reserved Seats by Full court Majority and Government of Shehbaz completly refused to accept it or implement it. That was new low in constitutional history of Pak and pales in front of IK's attempt to evade VONC
It's not justification - I'm just saying that PTI made blunders.


There can be no justification for stealing the mandate of the people. The PTI very obviously won the election. The results were changed Infront of our eyes.
 
It's not justification - I'm just saying that PTI made blunders.


There can be no justification for stealing the mandate of the people. The PTI very obviously won the election. The results were changed Infront of our eyes.
but Regime supporters have this as defence for everything. From ministers to low level workers , if you ask relevant question abour their dubious actions in Govt , Their Answers starts with Imran khan and ends up with calling the people who ask questions a cult
 
but Regime supporters have this as defence for everything. From ministers to low level workers , if you ask relevant question abour their dubious actions in Govt , Their Answers starts with Imran khan and ends up with calling the people who ask questions a cult
Deep down they know what happened is wrong.

I think people cannot genuinely support PPP and PMLN as parties.

Obviously when they are in power and running the country you have to acknowledge their good points. For example. I like the way Asim Munir gave danda to Taliban and BJP but that doesn't absolve him for his crimes against PTI.
 
Thats what i am saying. Bajwa gave safe passage to IK to call new elections and exit peacefully but he took other turn.
Also when IK removed Asim munir from ISI, it started the storm. That is the power of men in uniform in Pakistan.
Gen. Bajwa was playing on both sides of the wicket. Everyone knows now that maulana’s 2018/19 dharna was orchestrated by Bajwa. The idea was to soften Imran (who refused to become ‘Yes’ PM) but to not dismiss his government. Bajwa’s whole attitude with Imran changed after he got his extension. Hindsight is 20/20 but Imran should not have agreed to it even if that meant losing his government. Extensions are very much against the principle of merit.

Bajwa was also on board the London plan with PML-N

And Imran as PM was well within his rights to dismiss Munir as was Nawaz in 1999 (although he should have waited for Musharraf to return home). However, we all know that that would not have changed the final outcome. NS’s fate was sealed that moment.
 
Gen. Bajwa was playing on both sides of the wicket. Everyone knows now that maulana’s 2018/19 dharna was orchestrated by Bajwa. The idea was to soften Imran (who refused to become ‘Yes’ PM) but to not dismiss his government. Bajwa’s whole attitude with Imran changed after he got his extension. Hindsight is 20/20 but Imran should not have agreed to it even if that meant losing his government. Extensions are very much against the principle of merit.

Bajwa was also on board the London plan with PML-N

And Imran as PM was well within his rights to dismiss Munir as was Nawaz in 1999 (although he should have waited for Musharraf to return home). However, we all know that that would not have changed the final outcome. NS’s fate was sealed that moment.
What Imran Khan is today is exactly what Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto were in the past.

NS and BB both put up a tough fight against the establishment in their time, only to eventually realise that this country is structured to accommodate these British-era military remnants. Nothing can really be changed in this regard. You have to remain under their umbrella and try to improve the democratic system from within, unfortunately.

Imran Khan is courageous like his predecessors, but he is very foolish for not understanding this reality. Can you imagine, Nawaz Sharif even tried to dismiss a sitting COAS (which is his consitutional right), only to end up jailed and exiled later on false charges. What are you talking about, man? Please be practical.
 
What Imran Khan is today is exactly what Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto were in the past.

NS and BB both put up a tough fight against the establishment in their time, only to eventually realise that this country is structured to accommodate these British-era military remnants. Nothing can really be changed in this regard. You have to remain under their umbrella and try to improve the democratic system from within, unfortunately.

Imran Khan is courageous like his predecessors, but he is very foolish for not understanding this reality. Can you imagine, Nawaz Sharif even tried to dismiss a sitting COAS (which is his consitutional right), only to end up jailed and exiled later on false charges. What are you talking about, man? Please be practical.
No they didn't, they fought to keep their dynastic supremacism intact. In the case of NS, he tried his hand to become the "Amir ul Momineen" thinking he had appointed a pliant army chief. When the going got tough, NS ran away.

What Imran is doing, has no precedent in Pakistani politics. He is refusing to do a deal with the devil. It is a shame that Pakistani people are just not up for the fight like they are in Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.
 
What Imran Khan is today is exactly what Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto were in the past.

NS and BB both put up a tough fight against the establishment in their time, only to eventually realise that this country is structured to accommodate these British-era military remnants. Nothing can really be changed in this regard. You have to remain under their umbrella and try to improve the democratic system from within, unfortunately.

Imran Khan is courageous like his predecessors, but he is very foolish for not understanding this reality. Can you imagine, Nawaz Sharif even tried to dismiss a sitting COAS (which is his consitutional right), only to end up jailed and exiled later on false charges. What are you talking about, man? Please be practical.
Agree yeh mulk faujion k liye hi bana hai.

Already mentioned that in post # 286

Of course I am only critical of the generals who actively indulge in politics and then shamelessly deny it in ISPR press releases
 
Back in the day, whenever the establishment use to give PTI the middle finger, the PTI supporters here used to convince themselves, oh this is a good thing for khan.... lol Ab toh woh bhi nahi keh saktay.

Field Marshall zindabad, tun kay rakh inko
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What Imran Khan is today is exactly what Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto were in the past.

NS and BB both put up a tough fight against the establishment in their time, only to eventually realise that this country is structured to accommodate these British-era military remnants. Nothing can really be changed in this regard. You have to remain under their umbrella and try to improve the democratic system from within, unfortunately.

Imran Khan is courageous like his predecessors, but he is very foolish for not understanding this reality. Can you imagine, Nawaz Sharif even tried to dismiss a sitting COAS (which is his consitutional right), only to end up jailed and exiled later on false charges. What are you talking about, man? Please be practical.
The entire premise of this post is that this is not Quaid-E-Azam's Pakistan this is British Colonial Pakistan. You are trying to justify that given this is colonial Pakistan people with vision of QEAs Pakistan shouldn't be vocal about their opinions and surrender to the ground realities of colonial Pakistan.

My basic point is very simple. Allama Iqbal choose Quaid-E-Azam to lead his vision for Pakistan, no military dictator, general or British royal army representative was chosen for Pakistan's vision. The reason QEA led Pakistan movement was that it would be a Muslim country for the "people" led by the "people".

You can come back to me with "ground realities" and other jargons asking for surrender to the current regime but the answer will always be based on "principles". You started your post as a comparison between IK, Nawaz and BB. The biggest difference between IK and his contemporaries is that he doesn't compromise on principles of democracy (he believes in public in choosing their leader to run the country not in drawing rooms decisions). Principles are like backbone, if you have them you can stand tall, if you don't have them then you are creatures with no backbone like snakes.
 
Since 27th amendment , PSX the barometer of country's progress as chest thumped by FM is in bearish mode
 

3 key judicial bodies reconstituted in light of 27th Constitutional Amendment​

As the dust settles after the passage of the 27th Amendment Constitutional Amendment, changes have been made to key constitutional and statutory judicial bodies.

Following these changes, Supreme Court’s Justice Jamal Khan Mandokhail has been included in the Supreme Judicial Council (SJC) and the Practice and Procedure Committee while Federal Constitutional Court’s (FCC) Justice Aamer Farooq has been made a member of the Judicial Commission of Pakistan (JCP).

Among the three statutory bodies, the SJC is the the top forum for judicial accountability that probes allegations of misconduct against judges, the Practice and Procedure Committee forms benches and fixes cases, and the JCP is responsible for appointing judges to the superior judiciary.

Changes in their composition were required to synchronise them with the latest constitutional amendment.

A Supreme Court (SC) press release issued on Tuesday said: “Pursuant to the 27th Constitutional Amendment, [these] key constitutional and statutory judicial bodies […] have been reconstituted in accordance with the revised constitutional framework.”

Elaborating on the changes in the bodies’ composition, the press release said that Justice Mandokahail, being the second-most senior judge of the SC, had been jointly nominated by Chief Justice of Pakistan (CJP) Yahya Afridi and FCC Chief Justice Aminuddin Khan as a member of the SJC.

Now, apart from Justice Mandokhail, the SJC will comprise the CJP, FCC CJ Aminuddin, Justice Munib Akhtar of the SC, Justice Syed Hassan Azhar Rizvi of the FCC, Lahore High Court (LHC) CJ Aalia Neelum and Islamabad High Court (IHC) CJ Sardar Muhammad Sarfraz Dogar.

According to the 27th Amendment, the SJC will be headed by the senior most judge between the CJP and FCC chief justice. The inter-se seniority in this case will be determined by the dates of their appointment as the chief justices of the SC and FCC. This means that CJP Yahya will continue to head the body.

The SC press release also added that the two judges had nominated Justice Mandokhail as a member of Practice and Procedure Committee.

Under the Supreme Court (Practice and Procedure), Act 2023, the three-judge committee will now comprise the CJP, Justice Akhtar and Justice Mandokhail, who has become the second-most senior judge following the resignation of Syed Mansoor Ali Shah.

According to the SC press release, Justice Farooq, the second most senior judge of the FCC, was jointly nominated by the chief justices of the SC and FCC as a member of the JCP.

Following this, the JCP will now comprise the CJP, FCC chief justice, Justice Akhtar, FCC’s Justice Syed Hassan Azhar Rizvi, Justice Aamer Farooq, Attorney General for Pakistan (AGP) Mansoor Usman Awan, Law Minister Azam Nazir Tarar, Pakistan Bar Council (PBC) representative Ahsan Bhoon, two members from the National Assembly, two members from the Senate and a woman or non-Muslim nominated by the National Assembly speaker.

“The reconstituted bodies will continue to play a central role in matters of accountability, judicial appointments, and procedural governance under the amended constitutional scheme,” the press release read.

The changes in the bodies’ composition come amid a restructuring of the judiciary following the enactment of the 27th Amendment.

The contentious amendment, which resulted in the establishment of the FCC, was passed by Parliament amid the opposition’s outcry. It has also been criticised by some legal experts as a means to dethroning the SS as the country’s highest judicial forum, ceding that position to the FCC.

Former and sitting judges, as well as lawyers, have also voiced opposition to the proposed amendment, particularly citing its implications for the Supreme Court.

Hours after the Amendment was enacted on November 13, two judges of the SC had resigned, citing their reservations against it. These two judges were Athar Minallah and Mansoor Ali Shah, who was the senior puisne judge of the SC at the time.

ICJ’s reservations
The International Commission of Jurists (ICJ) has also expressed concern over several main points of the Amendment, namely the formation of the FCC, the appointment of judges and chief justices to the SC and the FCC, the composition of the JCP, the transfer of high court judges and the immunities granted to the president and the military leadership.

“Before the amendment, the Supreme Court of Pakistan exercised the functions that have now been given to the FCC,” the (ICJ) statement issued on Nov 13 read. “Following the amendment, the Supreme Court will now effectively be an appellate court only in matters that do not involve the interpretation of the Constitution of Pakistan.”

The ICJ further noted that the first batch of FCC judges would be appointed by the president on the prime minister’s advice, with future judges being appointed on the recommendation of the JCP, while the chief justice would be appointed by a “special parliamentary committee”.

“The amendment does not provide any criteria on which the appointments will be made and does not require reasons to [be] given for the appointments, apart from general qualifications necessary to be considered a judge of the FCC,” the statement read.

“The appointments are also of concern as the [chief justice] of the FCC and the senior-most judge of the FCC will also be members of the Judicial Commission of Pakistan … and the Supreme Judicial Council,” it highlighted.

Source: DAWN
 
The entire premise of this post is that this is not Quaid-E-Azam's Pakistan this is British Colonial Pakistan. You are trying to justify that given this is colonial Pakistan people with vision of QEAs Pakistan shouldn't be vocal about their opinions and surrender to the ground realities of colonial Pakistan.

My basic point is very simple. Allama Iqbal choose Quaid-E-Azam to lead his vision for Pakistan, no military dictator, general or British royal army representative was chosen for Pakistan's vision. The reason QEA led Pakistan movement was that it would be a Muslim country for the "people" led by the "people".

You can come back to me with "ground realities" and other jargons asking for surrender to the current regime but the answer will always be based on "principles". You started your post as a comparison between IK, Nawaz and BB. The biggest difference between IK and his contemporaries is that he doesn't compromise on principles of democracy (he believes in public in choosing their leader to run the country not in drawing rooms decisions). Principles are like backbone, if you have them you can stand tall, if you don't have them then you are creatures with no backbone like snakes.
Really, is Pakistan a Muslim country? Allama Iqbal and Quaid-e-Azam were Muslims only by name. Their wives, children, outfits, and entire lifestyle were British. Please don’t read Pakistan Studies and then come here to lecture us.

Pakistan is a country with a lost/forgotten identity. You hesitate to call yourselves ‘Indian’, which is what you originally were yet you insist on calling yourselves descendents of Turks/Arabs. What is wrong with Pakistanis?

Coming back to politics, the only principle Imran Khan follows is getting a good deal. He wants a good deal, and nobody is offering him one. If he were released today and offered the prime ministership, he would take it immediately and once again sit in the army’s lap without hesitation, making people like you call the army chief your ‘father’. He is courageous and relatively less corrupt, but he is not competent. That’s it."
 
No they didn't, they fought to keep their dynastic supremacism intact. In the case of NS, he tried his hand to become the "Amir ul Momineen" thinking he had appointed a pliant army chief. When the going got tough, NS ran away.

What Imran is doing, has no precedent in Pakistani politics. He is refusing to do a deal with the devil. It is a shame that Pakistani people are just not up for the fight like they are in Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.
Yes, because Pakistanis are not one nation. We are an artificial nation with no proper history or dynasty. We copy arabs/turks and now we are just copied material and not original. Because by history we are indians and we dont want us to call indians. Pakistan does not have a nation, they have a "hajoom" a "Junta"
 
Agree yeh mulk faujion k liye hi bana hai.

Already mentioned that in post # 286

Of course I am only critical of the generals who actively indulge in politics and then shamelessly deny it in ISPR press releases
These army goons are some of the most problematic people in the world. Not only in Pakistan this happens globally. The profession has become outdated in many aspects, and they try to prove their importance by involving themselves in unnecessary conflicts. In today’s world, nobody wants wars or fights.
 
Really, is Pakistan a Muslim country? Allama Iqbal and Quaid-e-Azam were Muslims only by name. Their wives, children, outfits, and entire lifestyle were British. Please don’t read Pakistan Studies and then come here to lecture us.

Pakistan is a country with a lost/forgotten identity. You hesitate to call yourselves ‘Indian’, which is what you originally were yet you insist on calling yourselves descendents of Turks/Arabs. What is wrong with Pakistanis?

Coming back to politics, the only principle Imran Khan follows is getting a good deal. He wants a good deal, and nobody is offering him one. If he were released today and offered the prime ministership, he would take it immediately and once again sit in the army’s lap without hesitation, making people like you call the army chief your ‘father’. He is courageous and relatively less corrupt, but he is not competent. That’s it."

If you are telling me Pakistan is not a Muslim country or the kind of Islam we practice is essentially different from being categorised as a Muslim then you are truly very wrong. Yes Quaid-E-Azam had a British lifestyle which we all agree upon. But if lifestyle itself categorises one person to be a Muslim then you are very wrong.

There is a hadith on saying of Prophet (PBUH) that the best of people are those that bring most benefit to the others. This is being said in light of character and deeds that are essential requirements of a Muslim along with belief. If you are telling me having a British lifestyle automatically categorises you as non-Muslim then I would take the word of Hadith over yours anyday.

As far as "best deal" for IK is concerned. You are trying to say that IK went through assasination attempt, house being raided and destroyed, supporters killed, fellow friends and politicians exiled or living in frenzies, families and homes of friends destroyed (moral fabric collapsed), sisters humiliated and manhandled on the streets, nephews servicing military jails, wife humiliated, tortured and imprisoned, politicians and friends privacy with families leaked on internet, close aides sexually assaulted inside prisons and above all the inhumane treatment being dished out to himself. IK is going through this entire ordeal for a "better deal". You are the kind of person who wouldn't be able to sell water during times of drought. You can definitely not sell this theory of yours to anyone with an iota of knowledge (ilm).
 
Im talking about hypocrisy of IK critics who accused him of consipracy to remain in power with help of Then Army chief and ISI chief. The same critics and champions of Democracy are now fine with FM taking unprecdented and unchecked seat at high table

You would only ask for life time immunity if you know that you have done something wrong. Munir knows that he stole PTi’s mandate in 2024 with the help of Qazi Isa, CEC Sultan Raja and the agencies.

Even if some PTI supporters were behind May 9 (although everyone knows now that it was an inside job done by PML-N and the agencies. However, it is still possible that some PTi supporters got sucked into it knowingly or unknowingly and I will not defend them), that still pales in comparison to what happened in Feb 2024.

Stealing the mandate of the people is a serious crime in most civilised democracies and in many societies punishable by death.
 
You would only ask for life time immunity if you know that you have done something wrong. Munir knows that he stole PTi’s mandate in 2024 with the help of Qazi Isa, CEC Sultan Raja and the agencies.

Even if some PTI supporters were behind May 9 (although everyone knows now that it was an inside job done by PML-N and the agencies. However, it is still possible that some PTi supporters got sucked into it knowingly or unknowingly and I will not defend them), that still pales in comparison to what happened in Feb 2024.

Stealing the mandate of the people is a serious crime in most civilised democracies and in many societies punishable by death.

what happened on May 9?

to me its a non event. No security personnel lost life or got seriously Injured. It was a simple protest because IK was manhandled by same security agencies from court premises , the disrespect for Ex premier and argubaly the best cricketer our country has produced was mind boggling and then media with help of agencies went into overdrive and tried to Gaslight whole country into idea that May 9 was worst thing happened to this country which its clearly not. Yes some monuments or Buildings were vandalised and responsible people should have been punished according to relevant laws but Munir and Co made mountain out of a molehil to have crack at PTI . lot of young people's careers have been ruined through fake trials
 
what happened on May 9?

to me its a non event. No security personnel lost life or got seriously Injured. It was a simple protest because IK was manhandled by same security agencies from court premises , the disrespect for Ex premier and argubaly the best cricketer our country has produced was mind boggling and then media with help of agencies went into overdrive and tried to Gaslight whole country into idea that May 9 was worst thing happened to this country which its clearly not. Yes some monuments or Buildings were vandalised and responsible people should have been punished according to relevant laws but Munir and Co made mountain out of a molehil to have crack at PTI . lot of young people's careers have been ruined through fake trials
There were country wide riots following the arrest of Imran Khan which the authorities blame on PTi supporters
 
There were country wide riots following the arrest of Imran Khan which the authorities blame on PTi supporters

The Establishment can’t cry victim over May 9 when they triggered the entire thing themselves. They violently grabbed a former prime minister inside a courtroom, manhandled him like a thug on live TV, and then acted shocked when the public reacted. It was a deliberate provocation. And let’s be clear , protest is a constitutional right citizens are allowed to show anger, even towards the military, because no institution is above the law or beyond criticism. Yet the state inflated a small, emotionally charged protest with no deaths and limited damage into a “national security crisis.” That exaggeration isn’t accidental it’s political engineering. They created the spark with a humiliating arrest, watched the smoke rise, and then used that smoke as an excuse to suffocate an entire political party. If anything gives credence to the idea of manipulation, it’s how a minor incident was weaponised into a manufactured narrative of rebellion
 
There were country wide riots following the arrest of Imran Khan which the authorities blame on PTi supporters
There wasnt any riots, there were some incidences. Where is the video of GHQ and Peshawar Radio PK building? Why were people allowed to go KMs to Lahore Commanders house without any security? Why was he removed from his post by Munir.
 
There wasnt any riots, there were some incidences. Where is the video of GHQ and Peshawar Radio PK building? Why were people allowed to go KMs to Lahore Commanders house without any security? Why was he removed from his post by Munir.
They destroyed every shred of evidence including CCTV footage just like they did after BB’s assassination. Our agencies are masters at that! I could be wrong but I don’t think that Musharraf was responsible. I believe she was killed by TTP.

And expecting justice (SC has been virtually neutralised) under the current set-up would be like asking a cat to guard your milk.
 
The Establishment can’t cry victim over May 9 when they triggered the entire thing themselves. They violently grabbed a former prime minister inside a courtroom, manhandled him like a thug on live TV, and then acted shocked when the public reacted. It was a deliberate provocation. And let’s be clear , protest is a constitutional right citizens are allowed to show anger, even towards the military, because no institution is above the law or beyond criticism. Yet the state inflated a small, emotionally charged protest with no deaths and limited damage into a “national security crisis.” That exaggeration isn’t accidental it’s political engineering. They created the spark with a humiliating arrest, watched the smoke rise, and then used that smoke as an excuse to suffocate an entire political party. If anything gives credence to the idea of manipulation, it’s how a minor incident was weaponised into a manufactured narrative of rebellion

Pakistan is virtually a banana republic. There is no rule of law. Justice is very selective. The courts are actively supporting the ‘status quo’ (you won’t find this term used in any other civilised democracy!). Essentially means people (including corrupt politicians, bureaucracy, judiciary, military, police, businessmen, media houses) who are benefiting from ‘existing state’ will resist any and every attempt to change it.
 
There wasnt any riots, there were some incidences. Where is the video of GHQ and Peshawar Radio PK building? Why were people allowed to go KMs to Lahore Commanders house without any security? Why was he removed from his post by Munir.
Since when Vandalism or arson equates to treason and Terrorism and require military trial?

This state has used anti terrorism laws to instil fear among people who want to protest while undermining the actual fight against terrorism
 
IMF just dropped the 186-page bomb... Read that and you will know why this 27th amendment came... 1 of the many reasons was to hide corruption...
 
If you are telling me Pakistan is not a Muslim country or the kind of Islam we practice is essentially different from being categorised as a Muslim then you are truly very wrong. Yes Quaid-E-Azam had a British lifestyle which we all agree upon. But if lifestyle itself categorises one person to be a Muslim then you are very wrong.
I think you need to read some books that are not commonly promoted in Pakistan and avoid relying solely on Pakistan Studies textbooks, which are often designed to present a selective, glorified narrative. Historical records clearly mention that neither QEA nor Allama Iqbal ever performed Hajj or Umrah; they frequently consumed alcohol; they had illicit relationships with non-Muslim women despite having Muslim wives; and their lifestyles were heavily influenced by British culture. With all these attributes, how can one claim that they envisioned creating an ideal Islamic state like the Pakistan portrayed today?

There is a hadith on saying of Prophet (PBUH) that the best of people are those that bring most benefit to the others. This is being said in light of character and deeds that are essential requirements of a Muslim along with belief. If you are telling me having a British lifestyle automatically categorises you as non-Muslim then I would take the word of Hadith over yours anyday
Quoting one hadith while ignoring the Qur’anic emphasis on following the Prophet’s lifestyle in character, modesty, and conduct oversimplifies Islam and misuses religious texts for emotional appeal.

As far as "best deal" for IK is concerned. You are trying to say that IK went through assasination attempt, house being raided and destroyed, supporters killed, fellow friends and politicians exiled or living in frenzies, families and homes of friends destroyed (moral fabric collapsed), sisters humiliated and manhandled on the streets, nephews servicing military jails, wife humiliated, tortured and imprisoned, politicians and friends privacy with families leaked on internet, close aides sexually assaulted inside prisons and above all the inhumane treatment being dished out to himself. IK is going through this entire ordeal for a "better deal". You are the kind of person who wouldn't be able to sell water during times of drought. You can definitely not sell this theory of yours to anyone with an iota of knowledge (ilm).
You sound like Gen Z and not fully aware of Pakistan’s political history. What is happening now has happened before to many top leaders of Pakistan, and they all eventually learned the same lesson, unfortunately, the only way to survive politically is to operate under the military’s umbrella. Just look at what the establishment did to MQM’s Altaf Hussain and his family in the 90s, or to Zardari, who spent more than 10 years in jail.

Imran Khan is simply repeating the precedent set by these leaders. Sooner or later, he will also realize that he is only wasting his time by staying in jail. Although I personally want him to remain there and come out with genuine public power, the reality is that no one cares in Pakistan. True revolutions belong to nations, not to a junta or a hajoom. I hope you understand my point.
 
The decisions by some previous judges have made it evident that their powers must be restricted otherwise they will never allow parliament to run properly. In india supreme court can only take action when there is any changes done in basic structure of their constitution.

But pakistan me aaway ka aawaa hi bigraa hua hai

Even an office boy in government offices are more powerful than CEOs of private companies.
Yes. But the 27th amendment just makes it even worse with military being more empowered.

Its a shame that Military occupies even the public and private companies. I strongly believe that a strong judiciary is essential for a democracy to work. Imagine the US where judiciary was not able to control Trump. He would have gone absolute bonkers. Judiciary is what keeping him in check.

We are in a situation where a perfect / ideal politician or a system only exists in books and people need to adjust to what the system offers. So, its really a sad scenario from my understanding.
 
They destroyed every shred of evidence including CCTV footage just like they did after BB’s assassination. Our agencies are masters at that! I could be wrong but I don’t think that Musharraf was responsible. I believe she was killed by TTP.

And expecting justice (SC has been virtually neutralised) under the current set-up would be like asking a cat to guard your milk.
These agencies job is to keep PK safe, however they spend their time making porn videos and arresting political workers to protect the power of the Generals
 
Yes. But the 27th amendment just makes it even worse with military being more empowered.

Its a shame that Military occupies even the public and private companies. I strongly believe that a strong judiciary is essential for a democracy to work. Imagine the US where judiciary was not able to control Trump. He would have gone absolute bonkers. Judiciary is what keeping him in check.

We are in a situation where a perfect / ideal politician or a system only exists in books and people need to adjust to what the system offers. So, its really a sad scenario from my understanding.
First, you need to understand where the judges’ power was coming from. It was the establishment, meaning the military, who controlled these judges to serve their hidden agendas. Now that this link has been cut, I expect some improvement.

As for the military’s powers, I don’t think there is anything bad left that they haven’t already done to this country in the past. With this constitution, they have simply stamped and formalized it. That’s it.

Everybody knows who runs Pakistan.
 
Back
Top