The bigger problem for Pakistan is the batting, not the bowling

[gazza619]

Even in the post match presentation Buttler said that England bowlers did a brilliant job in restricting Pakistan to 340.

I notice most threads are discussing how poor Pakistan bowling was.

I feel our batsmen are getting away very lightly here. This was a 380 pitch with short boundaries.

Mickey needs to have a strict word with the batsmen for not performing well enough.

 

[Ronaldo7]

You can't be serious. They showed the stats and we hadn't bowled a Yorker till the 46th over.
Our bowling was JUST BAD.

 

[gazza619]

You can't be serious. They showed the stats and we hadn't bowled a Yorker till the 46th over.
Our bowling was JUST BAD.

I note that. I also note that England bowled better but Pak still managed to put on 340.

 

[Mueez]

To be honest our batting has exceeded my expectations in the last couple of matches.

It is the bowling which has been a huge letdown.

However it looked a lot better today when we had proper spin-options and an attacking fast-bowler.

 

[NauV]

If Pakistan can score the runs they have consistently in the 9 games in the world cup, I can guarantee a semi final spot! As simple as that . .

This english batting line up is downright scary and miles ahead of any other batting line up in the world . . No team even comes close to this batting line up . .

While I would constantly be remindign that to the boys in the dressing room, at the same time some of the bowling has been filthy . . shaheen shah's leg side garbade, no yorkers, etc . . and particularly fielding!! fielding has been disgusting . . hopefully they will warm up to the task . . literally and figuratively . .

 

[Hasan123]

The batting is still an issue. 350 wasnt good enough on any of these pitches. I don't see us scoring 350 against India,Australia, and NZ so the batting is going to have to improve as well.

 

[IAJ]

Why is no one pointing out our poor fielding? Roy was given a couple of lives in 3rd ODI and he was dropped om 25 today, went on to make a matchwinning ton.

 

[ali2220]

The batting is still an issue. 350 wasnt good enough on any of these pitches. I don't see us scoring 350 against India,Australia, and NZ so the batting is going to have to improve as well.

There are issues everywhere, fielding,captaincy,bowling and batting.We need to improve the first three first rather than just focus on batting.

 

[Cric1234]

To be honest our batting has exceeded my expectations in the last couple of matches.

It is the bowling which has been a huge letdown.

However it looked a lot better today when we had proper spin-options and an attacking fast-bowler.

If the team scored 250 on a 275 wicket and lose would they still exceed your expectation?
Just because they scored 350 doesn't mean it's good enough it's still below par.

 

[Red Devil]

Batting is obviously still an issue, but we were only 10-15 runs short of a winning total.

But even the 340 was defendable if our bowling wasn't so atrocious. The picth offers no assistance and our bowlers simply don't seem to posses the kind of skill set required to survive on these pitches.

They just keep bowling length with no innovation or out of the box thinking.

 

[Ronaldo7]

If the team scored 250 on a 275 wicket and lose would they still exceed your expectation?
Just because they scored 350 doesn't mean it's good enough it's still below par.

What do out of "England- the side which has chased 20 times successfully in England in a row" do you not get???
They're a beast batting side. No one is even close. We should be happy that we are somewhat challenging them.

 

[gazza619]

If the team scored 250 on a 275 wicket and lose would they still exceed your expectation?
Just because they scored 350 doesn't mean it's good enough it's still below par.

Thats exactly my point. We need to raise the bar.

 

[jnaveen1980]

) Restricting to 340 haha

 

[Rana]

I said this time and time again in the match thread

Pakistani batsmen are the worst at picking up slower deliveries at the death

 

[Cric1234]

What do out of "England- the side which has chased 20 times successfully in England in a row" do you not get???
They're a beast batting side. No one is even close. We should be happy that we are somewhat challenging them.

It seems every team we play is a beast side as we've lost 10 in a row and in general been mediocre for a long time now on ODIs surely it tells you the top order batting is one dimensional and incapable of posting match winning scores.

 

[Rana]

Hafeez and Fakhar both aggressive players both got starts on this flat deck, why not go all the way like Miller, Butler or any other top batsman would?

 

[jnaveen1980]

Pakistan had England on the mat at 210/5. They didn't even have Bairstow or Morgan their best inform players. Bad fielding, bad execution simple bowling plan, bad field set all contributed to this.

 

[Ronaldo7]

It seems every team we play is a beast side as we've lost 10 in a row and in general been mediocre for a long time now on ODIs surely it tells you the top order batting is one dimensional and incapable of posting match winning scores.

Let's count the 9:
5 vs aus (only 3 from that team were playing today)
1 vs sa (lost the series 3-2 - somewhat respectable)
3 vs eng ( eng are just a beast team)

 

[Cric1234]

Pakistan had England on the mat at 210/5. They didn't even have Bairstow or Morgan their best inform players. Bad fielding, bad execution simple bowling plan, bad field set all contributed to this.

It was their own doing Butler and Moeen came in and hit it straight up in the air maybe the plan was to give the lower order more practise it came off well.

 

[Pete Rose]

FWIW I dont really think there is any BIG problem per se. Its just that we are playing against very good team and our mistakes against them, while they may seem small have make a huge difference to the end result.
For instance it used to be that if you scored 300+ and dropped the odd catch or two, against most teams you get chances to come back in to the game.
Or if you have guys scoring 50 and getting dismissed, again, in the past that would have been forgiven because you are still putting up 300+ totals. not against england.
Same goes with ground fielding.

We are scoring 330+ against the number on team that has build its brand entirely on batting. When they bowl they literally toiling much like we are in the field.
I am not really convinced that we are in full blown crisis territory.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Let me play the devil's advocate here. Battingis not an issue. English side is such a vastly experienced side at ever level. Many of them made debut years back. Some of them play all 3 formats. They even have one of the member from FAB 4 amidst them. Experience in T20 leagues. County cricket. They have world class all rounders. They have been batting this way for a very long time as a unit. Pakistan on the other hand a fairly new unit with most of them at best can be considered as accumulators. Not a unit designed to go toe to toe with this English side. Frankly SA/India/Australia/NZ none of them can do. On a good day Windies can do. Let us say if Pakistan had inform Afridi and Razzq coming in at 7 and 8 and Kamran at 6 they can dream slightly of outbattng this gun batting unit. At this point you have to outbowl them. That is where their weakness is. What is their weakness . Fast bowlers, Spinners. They love trundlers. Fill the gaps in the bowling department things will fall in place.

 

[indianpanacea]

I guess batting is definitely an issue especially lower order..Too much of garbage there...no hitting abilities.sarfaraz,imad aren't able to give impetus and are ill suited to bat lower the order..That makes the difference of 15-20 runs and that is the margin pakistan is losing with...i guess that aspect needs to be sort and i genuinely believe that both of them deserve to bat up the order and lower order should be handled by batsman with hitting abilities like hafeez,Asif and malik..with imam down sarfaraz should open in next game and i assure him he will be better than imam who consumes too many balls at top order and imam should come in middle order and continue the same position in this world cup..
Fakhar
Sarfaraz
Babar
Imad
Shoaib
Hafeez
Asif
& then bowlers

 

[Farhan93]

Completely agree with you, those who are saying we lost because of bowling are dumb and don't know about modern cricket and english conditions our batting and fielding were worse

 

[indianpanacea]

& with Amir ,shahdab joining national team the bowling unit shall definitely look more potent and full of variety..

 

[CadPakFan]

How can you blame the batting! Steve Harmison even commented on Pakistan's bowling and said it was "brainless" which says a lot.

 

[Farhan93]

To be honest our batting has exceeded my expectations in the last couple of matches.

It is the bowling which has been a huge letdown.

However it looked a lot better today when we had proper spin-options and an attacking fast-bowler.

lol it's the conditions , don't get fooled... Even Ireland can score 340-350 on such pitches against england bowling attack...our batting was terrible and worse than bowling..Even Wasim and Waqar would concede runs on such batting paradise with ER of 6-7 easily...

 

[jnaveen1980]

I guess batting is definitely an issue especially lower order..Too much of garbage there...no hitting abilities.sarfaraz,imad aren't able to give impetus and are ill suited to bat lower the order..That makes the difference of 15-20 runs and that is the margin pakistan is losing with...i guess that aspect needs to be sort and i genuinely believe that both of them deserve to bat up the order and lower order should be handled by batsman with hitting abilities like hafeez,Asif and malik..with imam down sarfaraz should open in next game and i assure him he will be better than imam who consumes too many balls at top order and imam should come in middle order and continue the same position in this world cup..
Fakhar
Sarfaraz
Babar
Imad
Shoaib
Hafeez
Asif
& then bowlers

Man to man they are not even in the same planet. They massacred Australia for 481 runs. What did Australia respond with? No matter how many runs you score they will hunt it down because they have better batting line up. Why do you think 400 is safe against these guys?

 

[chacha kashmiri]

If Pakistan score 340 in every game on the World Cup they should win it

It’s ridiculous to blame the batsmen knowing sarfraz has no power in his batting, imam is carrying an injury and Imad Wasim is being targeted for the shorter ball

I’m really impressed with Azam,Zaman and Asif for their terrific innings sofar

 

[Stewie]

I would say it’s maybe 15% percent batting’s fault and the rest... bowling..


You would expect any of the top sides in the world to be able to defend a score like this.. just like how England did against us in the second ODI.

 

[Farhan93]

If Pakistan score 340 in every game on the World Cup they should win it

It’s ridiculous to blame the batsmen knowing sarfraz has no power in his batting, imam is carrying an injury and Imad Wasim is being targeted for the shorter ball

I’m really impressed with Azam,Zaman and Asif for their terrific innings sofar

Azam with terrific innings? O my god some of our fans don't even realise it was the flattest pitch in the world..where 400 is scored every year...unbelievable mindset our fans have it's even worse than players mindset

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Azam with terrific innings? O my god some of our fans don't even realise it was the flattest pitch in the world..where 400 is scored every year...unbelievable mindset our fans have it's even worse than players mindset

How were they going to get 400 when their best batsman from the last match nearly had his arm broken
Common
Be realistic
These games are called warm ups for a reason

 

[Savak]

Pakistani batting cannot do better than this. 320 plus runs is always a challenge, the bowlers are not doing their jobs. Big 5 bowling attacks will make other teams sweat for these many runs. Pakistan's poor showing and performances of late in the last few years has a lot to do with their poor bowling.

 

[jnaveen1980]

On the same tracks no other team (SA/NZ/Australia/India crossed 350 in the last few years). Australia played 6 games in the last 2 years. Crossed 300 twice that too barely. Lost all 6 games. This is the 20th game in England in a row they have won chasing. England has lost 3 matches in the last 2 years at home.

Each time common thing was they were restricted below 300 runs and the opposition hunted them down.
No team is going to outbat them by putting a score and defending.

 

[Mueez]

If the team scored 250 on a 275 wicket and lose would they still exceed your expectation?
Just because they scored 350 doesn't mean it's good enough it's still below par.

How is it below par if we took the game till the last over?

In my opinion 340+ is above par in England.

But the WC is around the corner, so let’s see what will be a par score?

 

[W63L35]

Really? Bowling is not the problem????

Worst S/R since 1/1/2018 and 2nd worst average;

 

[W63L35]

Seriously ... .batting is the problem??? Wow!!!

3rd best average since 1/1/2018






.....and middle of the pack (better than South Africa) S/R.

 

[W63L35]

Pakistani batting cannot do better than this. 320 plus runs is always a challenge, the bowlers are not doing their jobs. Big 5 bowling attacks will make other teams sweat for these many runs. Pakistan's poor showing and performances of late in the last few years has a lot to do with their poor bowling.

Exactly!!!!

We are playing #1 team in their HOME conditions.
If I was PCB chairman I would fire Azhar Mahmood and Inzi right now!

 

[Savak]

Exactly!!!!

We are playing #1 team in their HOME conditions.
If I was PCB chairman I would fire Azhar Mahmood and Inzi right now!

I know it's very time consuming but I would love to see the bowling averages of all our bowlers vs the top 6-7 batsmen of all opposition batting sides for the last few years.

That is where the problem is. If you don't pick up early wickets consistently you will not win Cricket matches 9 times out of 10

 

[Khwaja78]

Bigger problem is both. Pakistani bowling has been the one providing any success Pakistan has had. For last 3 years batting order has become a family club for the chief selector and PCB, where they plant their nephews, neighbours and sons while the bowlers and all rounders carry the burden. These pitches and England approach are psychologically denting the bowlers who know they have no one to support them, esp. the batting.

 

[barah_admi]

Even in the post match presentation Buttler said that England bowlers did a brilliant job in restricting Pakistan to 340.

I notice most threads are discussing how poor Pakistan bowling was.

I feel our batsmen are getting away very lightly here. This was a 380 pitch with short boundaries.

Mickey needs to have a strict word with the batsmen for not performing well enough.

Do they need to score 600?

Most teams would have failed to chase 340, it's just that on these pitches England have been too good for every one.

 

[Farhan93]

How were they going to get 400 when their best batsman from the last match nearly had his arm broken
Common
Be realistic
These games are called warm ups for a reason

Player like imam and babar can't help you score 380-400+ score,you need better players than them. It's not about scoring runs nowadays it's about scoring runs and scoring runs at high pace. You need to have SR around 90-100 when imam and Babar SR against top teams are 75 and 80 . it's not good enough.

So our batting has issues, i can't understand how can you call that selfish inning a terrific innings.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Let me play the devil's advocate here. Battingis not an issue. English side is such a vastly experienced side at ever level. Many of them made debut years back. Some of them play all 3 formats. They even have one of the member from FAB 4 amidst them. Experience in T20 leagues. County cricket. They have world class all rounders. They have been batting this way for a very long time as a unit. Pakistan on the other hand a fairly new unit with most of them at best can be considered as accumulators. Not a unit designed to go toe to toe with this English side. Frankly SA/India/Australia/NZ none of them can do. On a good day Windies can do. Let us say if Pakistan had inform Afridi and Razzq coming in at 7 and 8 and Kamran at 6 they can dream slightly of outbattng this gun batting unit. At this point you have to outbowl them. That is where their weakness is. What is their weakness . Fast bowlers, Spinners. They love trundlers. Fill the gaps in the bowling department things will fall in place.

The mighty WI who just lost a series against BD can do, but SA/India/Aus can't do it? ) Your devil's advocatery deserves an award for this nonsense!

 

[classic]

No early wkts are being taken and strike rate needs to improve by the lower order batsmen. Need to catch those early chances otherwise they will make you pay. We need Abid Ali and experience of Hafeez and Malik to dry up the runs. The last part is very crucial which no one is mentioning.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Player like imam and babar can't help you score 380-400+ score,you need better players than them. It's not about scoring runs nowadays it's about scoring runs and scoring runs at high pace. You need to have SR around 90-100 when imam and Babar SR against top teams are 75 and 80 . it's not good enough.

So our batting has issues, i can't understand how can you call that selfish inning a terrific innings.

Pakistan only need one batsmen to go at 150+ s/r to get to 350 if the other batsmen go at s/r of 105 etc
It’s not rocket science , it’s a deployment used by England with their usage of Jason roy and Mr Butler
Not everyone in the team needs to strike so dashingly

 

[jnaveen1980]

The mighty WI who just lost a series against BD can do, but SA/India/Aus can't do it? ) Your devil's advocatery deserves an award for this nonsense!

Mighty WI did not have their mighty players just in case you didn't notice. NO Gayle, Not Hetmyer No , No Oshane Thomas. Windies scored 381, 360 against them. India with longish tail is not going to match those scores.

 

[gazza619]

Again we should have chased down the score. It was an absolute belter of a pitch.

PS: just watch how even our number eleven was hitting boundaries.

 

[emranabbas]

Seriously ... .batting is the problem??? Wow!!!

3rd best average since 1/1/2018
View attachment 91412





.....and middle of the pack (better than South Africa) S/R.
View attachment 91413

Please take away minnows and post these stats and then show us the 3rd best average since 1/1/2018

 

[SensiblePakFan]

Wrong, its dropping catches.

 

[Captain caveman]

Taking wickets, dropping catches, misfields, running between the wickets, inability to accelerate our scoring in last 10 overs and pacing our run chases are our problems!