The cause of the Faizabad controversy - EXPLAINED

[Markhor]

Much has been said about the demonstrations erupting across Pakistan, but the causes appear confusing with many half truths being spread. This thread is to sift fact from fiction so please bear with me as this cannot be explained in 140 characters.

The biggest untruth is that the Constitutional clause that declared Ahmedis non-Muslim is being removed through the 2017 Election Act. Firstly, the Election Act is a piece of legislation SUBORDINATE to the Constitution. Only a Constitutional amendment can declare the Ahmedis as Muslim or otherwise. Neither does the Election Act overturn Zia's Ordinance XX which made Ahmedis "posing as Muslim" or preaching their faith an imprisonable offence.

What the Election Act does is consolidate eight different pieces of legislation. One of those was Musharraf's 2002 Election Order. Section 7 allowed for a joint electorate and non-Muslim seats were to be filled via proportional representation. In a separate electorate, there was a separate electoral list for non-Muslims that entitled them to vote for seats reserved for non-Muslims. Thus, there was NO NEED for a separate list for non-Muslims. In the joint electorate system only one list was needed, as all citizens (Muslim and non-Muslim) would vote for the seat in their respective constituencies.

But the mullahs cried foul and claimed Musharraf was undoing the non-Muslim status of Ahmedis. So Musharraf appeased the bigots and added Section 7B and 7C to the Order. Section 7C states requires a Muslim candidate to declare:

"I believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH), the last of the prophets and that I am not the follower of any one who claims to be a Prophet in any sense of the word or of any description whatsoever after Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), and that I do not recognize such a claimant to be Prophet or a religious reformer, nor do I belong to the Qadiani group or the Lahori group or call myself an Ahmedi."

Here's the controversy. Under the Election Act, multiple declarations were pooled together and the declaration stated, "I hereby declare that...I believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophet", whereas in the old form it was worded as "I solemnly swear that I believe". As the lawyer Babar Sattar stated last week, the legal consequence is unchanged: a false declaration attracts disqualification whether you swore upon it or just stated it !

So what is Rizvi and his ilk crying about ? If this was such a substantial change, then why did 34 members of the parliamentary committee who oversaw the new election law in its dozens of meetings fail to spot them ? Why not demand resignation of the parliamentary committee ?

Parliament PASSED Election Act 2017 on October 2. So why the hell are Parliamentarians now lamenting a "mistake" when YOU passed the original bill ! Captain Safdar goes and gives an anti-Ahmedi hate speech in Parliament. Now there are many who think there was some conspiracy to undermine Islam in Pakistan, when none existed. An Amendment Act was even passed on October 16 to restore the original wording yet there's still protests. This is the DEFINITION of a storm in a teacup.

 

[Syed1]

Actually... I'm not sure if the actual act of declaring "Ahmedis as non-Muslims" was removed from the constitution. The only thing that, as per my knowledge, was amended was the oath that a parliamentarian takes after being elected - as you pointed out.

 

[pkwdpassion]

Another supporter of this pathetic shameless failed govt. .

The whole declaration was removed from the form, and was admitted by speaker parliament Ayaz Sadiq himself trying to hide their pathetic move, calling it a clerical error it was later amended and the declaration was put back in. Immediately the minister shouldve resigned or disclose the person who removed the declaration.

A parliamentary committee was made to investigate under Raja Zafr ul Haq, till now the findings of the cmte. were not made public. This was before protests started.

I request others not to believe this joke supporters calling the protesters mullahs and demeaning them. They are not mullahs they are normal people and pml n will face these people in next election.

The way operation was carried out yesterday was also faulty with Rangers only guarding a 2nd tier of police. This operation was more of a drama to push Pak Army face off with public which failed miserably. Now all of these neanderthals should resign.

 

[Markhor]

Another supporter of this pathetic shameless failed govt. .

The whole declaration was removed from the form, and was admitted by speaker parliament Ayaz Sadiq himself trying to hide their pathetic move, calling it a clerical error it was later amended and the declaration was put back in. Immediately the minister shouldve resigned or disclose the person who removed the declaration.

A parliamentary committee was made to investigate under Raja Zafr ul Haq, till now the findings of the cmte. were not made public. This was before protests started.

I request others not to believe this joke supporters calling the protesters mullahs and demeaning them. They are not mullahs they are normal people and pml n will face these people in next election.

The way operation was carried out yesterday was also faulty with Rangers only guarding a 2nd tier of police. This operation was more of a drama to push Pak Army face off with public which failed miserably. Now all of these neanderthals should resign.

You are a blatant liar - but lying seems to be a habit of these holier-than-thou self-style guardians of Islam who use religion for their malign purposes.

The Election Act did nothing of the sort. The declaration is still there - I know its difficult for the religious right to see reason and logic but you should read the actual Act.

Here it is, go to Page 119 - http://www.na.gov.pk/uploads/documents/1507618619_667.pdf

 

[LegendInzi]

1. Govt successfully passes bill to allow disqualified person head a political party.
2. Army/ISI been working on minus-Nawaz for some time, so they don't like this amendment one bit.
3. In the same bill govt had made a minor change on declaration for oaths
4. Army tout Shaikh Rasheed brings this edit into notice of parliament and gives it a color of Khatam e Nabuwat
5. Mullah-Military script comes into play and a lashkar is sent onto the capital to punish govt for the passing of bill favoring Nawaz.
6. Even though edit in point 2 has been reversed, but since that's not the motive of puppet-handlers, they want to succumb the govt further and hence the violent situation continues.

 

[Syed1]

Another supporter of this pathetic shameless failed govt. .

The whole declaration was removed from the form, and was admitted by speaker parliament Ayaz Sadiq himself trying to hide their pathetic move, calling it a clerical error it was later amended and the declaration was put back in. Immediately the minister shouldve resigned or disclose the person who removed the declaration.

A parliamentary committee was made to investigate under Raja Zafr ul Haq, till now the findings of the cmte. were not made public. This was before protests started.

I request others not to believe this joke supporters calling the protesters mullahs and demeaning them. They are not mullahs they are normal people and pml n will face these people in next election.

The way operation was carried out yesterday was also faulty with Rangers only guarding a 2nd tier of police. This operation was more of a drama to push Pak Army face off with public which failed miserably. Now all of these neanderthals should resign.

They are protecting Holy Prophet's (P.B.U.H) izzat by burning cars and property and by kidnapping policemen? In any civilized country these "protesters" would be behind bars facing long jail sentences. Mullahs are the scourge of the world. Sent by Allah as an example for others what brainless-ness looks like.

 

[PennOne]

Another supporter of this pathetic shameless failed govt. .

The whole declaration was removed from the form, and was admitted by speaker parliament Ayaz Sadiq himself trying to hide their pathetic move, calling it a clerical error it was later amended and the declaration was put back in. Immediately the minister shouldve resigned or disclose the person who removed the declaration.

A parliamentary committee was made to investigate under Raja Zafr ul Haq, till now the findings of the cmte. were not made public. This was before protests started.

I request others not to believe this joke supporters calling the protesters mullahs and demeaning them. They are not mullahs they are normal people and pml n will face these people in next election.

The way operation was carried out yesterday was also faulty with Rangers only guarding a 2nd tier of police. This operation was more of a drama to push Pak Army face off with public which failed miserably. Now all of these neanderthals should resign.

What do you think of Ahmadis

 

[pkwdpassion]

You are a blatant liar - but lying seems to be a habit of these holier-than-thou self-style guardians of Islam who use religion for their malign purposes.

The Election Act did nothing of the sort. The declaration is still there - I know its difficult for the religious right to see reason and logic but you should read the actual Act.

Here it is, go to Page 119 - http://www.na.gov.pk/uploads/documents/1507618619_667.pdf

Can mods please implement their rule and regulations to all members esp. noora joker's supporters.

First learn manners to convey whatever youwant to say and do these shenanigans with your liberal mafia friends to create diversions, don't do this with us.

Nice way to expose yourself.
To abuse and accuse others would actually make you look more foolish.

The govt. has already nodded to open up the Zafar ul Haq cmmtee. report today or tomorrow. It'll reveal the issue.
[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]

Bhai I was coming home from main road called Hasan Square in Gulshan e Iqbal Town, there are stil people there and they have'nt burnt a single cigarette let alone infrastructure.

A lotof people lke you are totally detached with the masses, don't know what outlets you have that give you information but it is twisted to say the least.

TLYRA party is a religious political party which is standing for a cause that many are supportive about and are angry on the issue, and all of them are not in the dharna and many in the dharna are not religious clerics they are normal people.

PML-N has committed suicide.
And dharna has spread to every city in Punjab, KPK and Sindh. there was protest in Quetta also yesterday which was called off after negotiation with the provincial govt...

 

[Markhor]

Can mods please implement their rule and regulations to all members esp. noora joker's supporters.

First learn manners to convey whatever youwant to say and do these shenanigans with your liberal mafia friends to create diversions, don't do this with us.

Nice way to expose yourself.
To abuse and accuse others would actually make you look more foolish.

The govt. has already nodded to open up the Zafar ul Haq cmmtee. report today or tomorrow. It'll reveal the issue.
[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]

Bhai I was coming home from main road called Hasan Square in Gulshan e Iqbal Town, there are stil people there and they have'nt burnt a single cigarette let alone infrastructure.

A lotof people lke you are totally detached with the masses, don't know what outlets you have that give you information but it is twisted to say the least.

TLYRA party is a religious political party which is standing for a cause that many are supportive about and are angry on the issue, and all of them are not in the dharna and many in the dharna are not religious clerics they are normal people.

PML-N has committed suicide.
And dharna has spread to every city in Punjab, KPK and Sindh. there was protest in Quetta also yesterday which was called off after negotiation with the provincial govt...

You keep describing those opposing these violent lawbreakers as "pathetic shameless Noora supporters" so spare the lecture on manners. Your leader Rizvi is using foul and filthy language which has been recorded on camera and you want to speak about manners ? Laughable !

Yes the whole world is lying except you - there are confirmed reports that these "protesters" have kidnapped police officers, been burning down police vans, attacking police officers, FC officers and civilians, ransacking the Law Minister's house and assaulting MNA Javed Latif. You not seeing it in your area doesn't mean it hasn't happened elsewhere.

Your folks even prevented an eight month old boy in an ambulance from attending hospital as they were blocking Khanna Bridge for so long that the boy died so have some shame.

Yes the PML-N government has handled this ineptly - they should've cleared the area as soon as IHC gave the order last week but instead embarked upon round after round of fruitless negotiations with the "protesters" who won't budge. You've had plenty of last warnings but want another Lal Masjid and create shaheeds for votes.

The Election Act has been amended and the declaration has been restored to the original wording so what's the problem now ? Why keep holding the capital city hostage ?

 

[pkwdpassion]

[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]

Rofl firstly this person is not my leader, I think he is one who has been promoted heavily by the liberal mafia in our country. Who was he? No one even knew this guy before liberal mafiosos started publcizing him thru social media posting clips of his khutbas mocking and generalizing him with the rest of the religious people.

Liberal jokes first should investigate who promoted this fella's vdo clips to help him gain prominence,wht an amazing inside job they did popularizing him as he is now breaking the back of most strong political party in Punjab.

This issue could've solved pretty easily with a Law Minister's resignation, when Noora sacrifice his buddies like Parvez Rasheed for himself [Dawn Leaks] then why this doofus MNA from Pasrur was lionized? Never seen a bigger idiot than him how the events have unfolded.

This was well-planned strategy which blew on their faces.
PML-N is themselves responsible for most of the arson and its MNAs now hiding in the nooks and corners of the country away from their homes.

Please first check information of the location of containers set up well before Faizabad interchange like a mile or more away. No road plan made to divert the traffic or help the people who had to reach in thiose areas. The protesters were'nt physically harming anyone and were few in no. than now. Senior, elderly, young kids were made to walk due to these stupid measures which was govt.s fault as they placed them miles away. Govt. continued to make Pakistani people suffer first in that Faizabad area than all over the country by this moronic blanket banon social media and cable. Could'nt even clear out the protestors and called it off yesterday evening whereas the ban continues uptil now more than 30 hours. IT IS THE GOVTs FAULT.

Javed LAtif is a shameless individual and not exactly a saint. Still remember for what he did abusing Murad Saeed's family in parliament infront of cameras.

 

[Sirris]

Rizvi and other's who had presented Mumtaz Qadri as a hero to their followers, are still ******** over his death. They can't digest the fact that their influence is slowly dying out and are looking for any excuse to cause chaos and anarchy to show off their power and save some grace in the eyes of their followers.

Since we are an emotional nation and this time around they have picked up the sensitive issue of "Ishq-e-rasool" and "khatam-e-nabuwat" they have managed to find support even among those who in the past were indifferent towards them.

 

[pkwdpassion]

Well the CAUSE has been finally revealed which the govt. was trying to hide. Raja Zafar ul Haq parliamentary committee findings are out.

The report alleges it was Current Minister of IT Anoushay Rahman who changed the amendment and is being adjudged responsible alongwith Zahid Hamid.

 

[waleed88]

1. Govt successfully passes bill to allow disqualified person head a political party.
2. Army/ISI been working on minus-Nawaz for some time, so they don't like this amendment one bit.
3. In the same bill govt had made a minor change on declaration for oaths
4. Army tout Shaikh Rasheed brings this edit into notice of parliament and gives it a color of Khatam e Nabuwat
5. Mullah-Military script comes into play and a lashkar is sent onto the capital to punish govt for the passing of bill favoring Nawaz.
6. Even though edit in point 2 has been reversed, but since that's not the motive of puppet-handlers, they want to succumb the govt further and hence the violent situation continues.

The only change from the oath was they made the words from 'solemnly swear' to 'solemnly affirm' - then this word was being debated upon in the parliament. Zahid Hamid said the word means the same but then backtracked and wanted to bring the word and oath back to its oriignal form. The act wasn't passed and the opposition were unanimous in that this word doesn't need to be changed. The government were scared that any change can lead to protests.

Half the people don't even know that no change has been made the oath and the law regarding the Ahmedis remains the same.

In fact the law was even more stricter on Ahmedis now that you can call out any Ahmedi anytime, anyplace, any year after they have voted as Muslims and you can point that out too.

Before according to 7A and 7B you had to call this out within 10 days of the vote made.

This is ridiculous the whole thing is being blown out of proportion, and this is only to destabilize the government. These buffoons label anything a Jew/Qadiani conspiracy.

 

[Bewal Express]

The only change from the oath was they made the words from 'solemnly swear' to 'solemnly affirm' - then this word was being debated upon in the parliament. Zahid Hamid said the word means the same but then backtracked and wanted to bring the word and oath back to its oriignal form. The act wasn't passed and the opposition were unanimous in that this word doesn't need to be changed. The government were scared that any change can lead to protests.

Half the people don't even know that no change has been made the oath and the law regarding the Ahmedis remains the same.

In fact the law was even more stricter on Ahmedis now that you can call out any Ahmedi anytime, anyplace, any year after they have voted as Muslims and you can point that out too.

Before according to 7A and 7B you had to call this out within 10 days of the vote made.

This is ridiculous the whole thing is being blown out of proportion, and this is only to destabilize the government. These buffoons label anything a Jew/Qadiani conspiracy.

So are they incompetent or worse. Either way they need to be sacked

 

[waleed88]

There should be a special place in hell for people who are doing this, lying their heads off and making this about Finality of Prophethood that every Muslim believes in and no Muslim will do this. This is ridiculous that people have created in the whole country on something that is not even an issue for real.

 

[waleed88]

So are they incompetent or worse. Either way they need to be sacked

Yes if you are saying government should be sacked over this you are part of the problem because you are doing politics over something that is not even an issue in the first place. What is the difference between Solemnly Affirm and solemnly sear.. Either way the issue has been resolved, and unrest is only being done to weaken the government. Government is reluctant to take action to avoid loss to their vote bank.

 

[Bewal Express]

Yes if you are saying government should be sacked over this you are part of the problem because you are doing politics over something that is not even an issue in the first place. What is the difference between Solemnly Affirm and solemnly sear.. Either way the issue has been resolved, and unrest is only being done to weaken the government. Government is reluctant to take action to avoid loss to their vote bank.

If there isnt a difference then why change it? It was a none issue before they changed it, so are you saying that it was delibrately changed, if so why and if it wasnt then why not release the report. Where is the PM? Is he not the 1st citizen, why hasnt he shown any leadership, is his job to just boot polish the Sharifs or to run a country. This is not govt with any idea of governance, it seems that its only raison detre is to protect the wealth of the Sharifs.

 

[waleed88]

If there isnt a difference then why change it? It was a none issue before they changed it, so are you saying that it was delibrately changed, if so why and if it wasnt then why not release the report. Where is the PM? Is he not the 1st citizen, why hasnt he shown any leadership, is his job to just boot polish the Sharifs or to run a country. This is not govt with any idea of governance, it seems that its only raison detre is to protect the wealth of the Sharifs.

Bhai jaan you really think this all falls on the head of the government?

No one is in control of these mobs. These mobs are on a leash, when the leash is loose they act. These people will protest on anything if allowed to do so.

Exactly my point, if there is no difference then why is the protest at all?

In democracy protestors are allowed to protest, but when you are breaking things destroying part of the country, affecting day to day lives you have to be dealt with the iron hand.

These people want losses of life, government is doing their best to contain life since elections are almost upon us.

 

[waleed88]

The fact nothing is being done about this shows who is behind all of this...

No should do politics over the name of Prophet Muhammad PBUH. The fact that it has come to this shows how desperately people want to get rid of government.

The fact that these mullahs can hold our country ransom shows which tola is actually in control of the state behind the scenes.

We get people taken up by agencies just for protesting the rights of Baloch and Muhajirs, they disappear into thin air. But these people are being allowed to do whatever they like. Shame on everyone involved.

 

[pkwdpassion]

You keep describing those opposing these violent lawbreakers as "pathetic shameless Noora supporters" so spare the lecture on manners. Your leader Rizvi is using foul and filthy language which has been recorded on camera and you want to speak about manners ? Laughable !

Yes the whole world is lying except you - there are confirmed reports that these "protesters" have kidnapped police officers, been burning down police vans, attacking police officers, FC officers and civilians, ransacking the Law Minister's house and assaulting MNA Javed Latif. You not seeing it in your area doesn't mean it hasn't happened elsewhere.

Your folks even prevented an eight month old boy in an ambulance from attending hospital as they were blocking Khanna Bridge for so long that the boy died so have some shame.

Yes the PML-N government has handled this ineptly - they should've cleared the area as soon as IHC gave the order last week but instead embarked upon round after round of fruitless negotiations with the "protesters" who won't budge. You've had plenty of last warnings but want another Lal Masjid and create shaheeds for votes.

The Election Act has been amended and the declaration has been restored to the original wording so what's the problem now ? Why keep holding the capital city hostage ?

Javed Latif is a bloody drama just found the footage about th eincident he escaped unhurt and ***** was trying to do acting, and you people will support any report fake or genuine if its against religious people, check how he escaped,

http://http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6alxl6

 

[Bewal Express]

Bhai jaan you really think this all falls on the head of the government?

No one is in control of these mobs. These mobs are on a leash, when the leash is loose they act. Exactly my point, if there is no difference then why is the protest at all?

In democracy protestors are allowed to protest, but when you are breaking things destroying part of the country, affecting day to day lives you have to be dealt with the iron hand.

These people want losses of life, government is doing their best to contain life since elections are almost upon us.

I agree that Maulvis were looking for an issue and i condemn their violence. But i find ironic that Nooras are not accepting their incompetence in the whole affair. I just have awful suspicion that the controversy was created by the govt to create an atmosphere of chaos, so that people would say that things were great under NS and everything has gone to pot once he left.

 

[waleed88]

I agree that Maulvis were looking for an issue and i condemn their violence. But i find ironic that Nooras are not accepting their incompetence in the whole affair. I just have awful suspicion that the controversy was created by the govt to create an atmosphere of chaos, so that people would say that things were great under NS and everything has gone to pot once he left.

Nooras can't create this controversy since their government/governance is already in shambles and the vultures were circling over them well before all of this happened. They have already lost alot of votes as you saw in NA 120, while votes in their favor in opposite provinces is close to zero.

Granted there are alot of ppl in PMLN who have love affairs with these right wing parties, but almost all of them have disassociated with N after hanging of MUmtaz Qadri.

 

[kingusama92]

You take simple-minded folk, use religion, and generate uproar for a hidden personal agenda.

That's the cause.

I'm afraid Pakistanis upholding these religious views (i.e. Black friday) have long lost their religion and are now fighting (literally!) to maintain some re-imagined version pushed by their local leaders.

 

[Waseem]

Another supporter of this pathetic shameless failed govt. .

The whole declaration was removed from the form, and was admitted by speaker parliament Ayaz Sadiq himself trying to hide their pathetic move, calling it a clerical error it was later amended and the declaration was put back in. Immediately the minister shouldve resigned or disclose the person who removed the declaration.

A parliamentary committee was made to investigate under Raja Zafr ul Haq, till now the findings of the cmte. were not made public. This was before protests started.

I request others not to believe this joke supporters calling the protesters mullahs and demeaning them. They are not mullahs they are normal people and pml n will face these people in next election.

The way operation was carried out yesterday was also faulty with Rangers only guarding a 2nd tier of police. This operation was more of a drama to push Pak Army face off with public which failed miserably. Now all of these neanderthals should resign.

Oh bhai i can guarantee 99% of protesters don't even know what they are protesting for. The change was quite insignificant but Khadim's propaganda and PMLN's pathetic response has made this issue much more serious than it actually was.

I am not even sure what government was trying to achieve by amending this law in the first place, it was insignificant and by no means changed anything as far as status of Ahmadis is concerned so protest and reaction of Khadim is purely for politics and not religion.

 

[Waseem]

The fact nothing is being done about this shows who is behind all of this...

No should do politics over the name of Prophet Muhammad PBUH. The fact that it has come to this shows how desperately people want to get rid of government.

The fact that these mullahs can hold our country ransom shows which tola is actually in control of the state behind the scenes.

We get people taken up by agencies just for protesting the rights of Baloch and Muhajirs, they disappear into thin air. But these people are being allowed to do whatever they like. Shame on everyone involved.

Maybe you can explain then:

What did change of law achieve? I have said long before this dharna that this was insignificant change and not even worth protesting let alone dharna or this madness.

But if change of law wasn't significant, what do you think was government trying to achieve knowing well there would be HUGE backlash? If there is one issue that would turn the country upside down, it's this issue so what on earth was government trying to achieve?

If it was their principled stand then i can understand but they changed the law, refused there was any change, then called it a clerical error and then likes of Shahbaz Sharif demanded action against culprits?? Then these people were allowed to travel from Lahore to Islamabad and then needless crackdown when a resignation could have solved it? Now Ahsan Iqbal is saying it wasn't even his decision to attack the dharna???

 

[waleed88]

Maybe you can explain then:

What did change of law achieve? I have said long before this dharna that this was insignificant change and not even worth protesting let alone dharna or this madness.

But if change of law wasn't significant, what do you think was government trying to achieve knowing well there would be HUGE backlash? If there is one issue that would turn the country upside down, it's this issue so what on earth was government trying to achieve?

If it was their principled stand then i can understand but they changed the law, refused there was any change, then called it a clerical error and then likes of Shahbaz Sharif demanded action against culprits?? Then these people were allowed to travel from Lahore to Islamabad and then needless crackdown when a resignation could have solved it? Now Ahsan Iqbal is saying it wasn't even his decision to attack the dharna???

Bhai koi law nahi tha, it was Election Act 2017 which was supposed to be an modifications and corrections from the previous acts that was done after the complains that were received for 2013 elections. They said we wanted to make the Khatm-e-Nabuwat law even stronger. Thats how they portrayed it as. They ended up changing the words from solemnly swear to solemnly affirm. It was a bill that was supposed to be passed before elections.

That was the jist of it I got anyone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Secondly the Section 7A and 7B against the Qadianis were deemed stagnant/null,void after 2002, they wanted to update that according to today's law, so they wanted to make it even better. It is better than ever before, any Qadiani can be arrested if he claimed to be a muslim at anytime of the year.

Now the bill is back to its original place, from I see this was supposed to please the maulvi community and it ended up exploding in their faces.

 

[waleed88]

Now nobody has any idea what is going on, such has been the change in landscape of politics these past 3 weeks.

 

[adil_909]

Education, respect, and critical thinking are all going up in flames around the world. Same is occurring in Europe, US, Britain, Pak, India, etc. It's exhausting. Humans are emotional beings, that will never change, but education teaches folks how to control their emotions and think critically about problems. But nowadays people just want to react to the latest trend with passionate support or anger, and the value of actual problem solving is all lost. May Allah help future generations and may they learn from our mistakes and ineptitude.

 

[saadibaba]

Education, respect, and critical thinking are all going up in flames around the world. Same is occurring in Europe, US, Britain, Pak, India, etc. It's exhausting. Humans are emotional beings, that will never change, but education teaches folks how to control their emotions and think critically about problems. But nowadays people just want to react to the latest trend with passionate support or anger, and the value of actual problem solving is all lost. May Allah help future generations and may they learn from our mistakes and ineptitude.

Good post!

 

[saadibaba]

The explanation given in the OP is legit. I just don't understand why Captain Safdar had to make that hateful speech in the parliament. This has to be either to distract the media and people from their own corruption trials or as some have postulated, to rile up sentiments against the COAS who some believe to be Ahmedi, maybe a sly warning to him to not put pressure on the govt. or else they will open this Pandora's box. Some believe PML-N wants to create a dire and chaotic situation where Army has to come and take over so they can become Siyasi shaheeds again which in turn will wash their tales of corruption and nepotism as it did in the past. Whatever it is, what a lame, pathetic and shameful circus this has all been and the precedence being set will make any future govt. be vulnerable to any such threats.

 

[Madplayer]

Education, respect, and critical thinking are all going up in flames around the world. Same is occurring in Europe, US, Britain, Pak, India, etc. It's exhausting. Humans are emotional beings, that will never change, but education teaches folks how to control their emotions and think critically about problems. But nowadays people just want to react to the latest trend with passionate support or anger, and the value of actual problem solving is all lost. May Allah help future generations and may they learn from our mistakes and ineptitude.

The biggest problem is that some Mullahs and their supporters think that they have to "protect the finalhood" of our beloved Prophet. Yes as ridiculous as it sounds its true. Like it is in their Aukaat to protect something which is Protected and declared as truth by Almighty Allah Himself. They have exaggerated sense of self importance and think without their hooliganism, Islam will vanish from the world. Islam isn't so small that it would need protection from these nobodies.

 

[Syed1]

The biggest problem is that some Mullahs and their supporters think that they have to "protect the finalhood" of our beloved Prophet. Yes as ridiculous as it sounds its true. Like it is in their Aukaat to protect something which is Protected and declared as truth by Almighty Allah Himself. They have exaggerated sense of self importance and think without their hooliganism, Islam will vanish from the world. Islam isn't so small that it would need protection from these nobodies.

Nicely said....

 

[Waseem]

The explanation given in the OP is legit. I just don't understand why Captain Safdar had to make that hateful speech in the parliament. This has to be either to distract the media and people from their own corruption trials or as some have postulated, to rile up sentiments against the COAS who some believe to be Ahmedi, maybe a sly warning to him to not put pressure on the govt. or else they will open this Pandora's box. Some believe PML-N wants to create a dire and chaotic situation where Army has to come and take over so they can become Siyasi shaheeds again which in turn will wash their tales of corruption and nepotism as it did in the past. Whatever it is, what a lame, pathetic and shameful circus this has all been and the precedence being set will make any future govt. be vulnerable to any such threats.

I could be a bit biased towards this conspiracy theory but this was FIRST instance of anti Ahmadi campaign when Captain Safdar out of nowhere blasted Ahmadis and even took cheap shots at Ahmadis who had served Armed forces. This could have been aimed at major Asif Bajwa, it was Army that came out against Safdar saying 'Army doesn't discriminate between Muslims/non Muslims or sects.

Then comes this amendment which left everyone surprised (even PMLN leaders) as this had not been discussed during electoral reforms bill.

Then came the response from opposition followed by Shahbaz Sharif's demand to hold the culprit (who made this amendment) to be punished.

The dharna guys then easily marched towards Islamabad and blocked it, attack on dharna came 20 days later and even interior minister refused to admit it was his decision (when he had warned of getting Isl cleared in 3 hours).

 

[Waseem]

The biggest problem is that some Mullahs and their supporters think that they have to "protect the finalhood" of our beloved Prophet. Yes as ridiculous as it sounds its true. Like it is in their Aukaat to protect something which is Protected and declared as truth by Almighty Allah Himself. They have exaggerated sense of self importance and think without their hooliganism, Islam will vanish from the world. Islam isn't so small that it would need protection from these nobodies.

Well said! What is beyond ridiculous is belief that Islam or "Namoos e Risalat" is somehow under threat from less than 1% of population and that too in a country where over 90% people are ultra religious.

 

[saadibaba]

Well said! What is beyond ridiculous is belief that Islam or "Namoos e Risalat" is somehow under threat from less than 1% of population and that too in a country where over 90% people are ultra religious.

That is the main problem. Religious fundamentalism and extremism has become mainstream. When a handful of fanatics come on the street, they know that the majority of the population are sympathetic to their cause. They know that our institutions like the judiciary, army and civil services are full of religious fundamentalists. They also know that anything in the name of Islam and Prophet (PBUH) no matter how baseless or ridiculous will be tolerated and accepted.

Who is responsible for our society to have become with time so extreme and orthodox is another debate but as long as Pakistanis continue to want the country be run on religious dogma and do not accept any form of reformism or moderation of religious views than I do not see any light at the end of a tunnel.

 

[the Great Khan]

That is the main problem. Religious fundamentalism and extremism has become mainstream. When a handful of fanatics come on the street, they know that the majority of the population are sympathetic to their cause. They know that our institutions like the judiciary, army and civil services are full of religious fundamentalists. They also know that anything in the name of Islam and Prophet (PBUH) no matter how baseless or ridiculous will be tolerated and accepted.

Who is responsible for our society to have become with time so extreme and orthodox is another debate but as long as Pakistanis continue to want the country be run on religious dogma and do not accept any form of reformism or moderation of religious views than I do not see any light at the end of a tunnel.

when you have to fight to survive everyday then the comfort of the deen is all thats left. This government has failed to provide the common man with the relief they need. Give them hope and they will run towards it. Give them despair and they will run towards you with a danda!!

We cannot continue down this road of incompetence and destruction. The education system is non existant, health system is non existant, all the country now has is roads. The country is saddled with debt, under attack from terrorist **** and a PM who lives in luxury. People will turn to the one thing they know that is an absolute.

Its the thniking " they took away everything from me but by God swt I wont let them take this last thing that i have left"

and its all self inflicted.

 

[the Great Khan]

The two things that can placate the quam are justice and rule of law. Give them these two things and watch how the nation turns itself around.

 

[yasir]

12th Rabiuwal is becoming a new 10th Moharam, now Sunnis will use this time frame to play politics, show of strength, every now and then... And this precedence of Dharna politics is just a start(we have seen 2/3 major ones in last 4 years), and its not about corruption (as PTI will find out, if they ever attain power), its a new tool in the hands of almighty...Pakistan is getting from bad to worse with time, we somehow mange to take us to one of the worse possible path... Pakistan is headless, no vision what so ever, all our cultural investments has failed miserably...This misery is not going to end anytime soon, we are in for a long winter

 

[Syed1]

when you have to fight to survive everyday then the comfort of the deen is all thats left. This government has failed to provide the common man with the relief they need. Give them hope and they will run towards it. Give them despair and they will run towards you with a danda!!

We cannot continue down this road of incompetence and destruction. The education system is non existant, health system is non existant, all the country now has is roads. The country is saddled with debt, under attack from terrorist **** and a PM who lives in luxury. People will turn to the one thing they know that is an absolute.

Its the thniking " they took away everything from me but by God swt I wont let them take this last thing that i have left"

and its all self inflicted.

People turn towards religious extremism because religion is the only thing that provides them with hope. They struggle to put food on the table or send their kids to school but having firm believe in God gives them hope that some day things will turn for the better.

As they say, "it's all about the money, honey".


Give these people prosperity and religious extremism will diminish and the only role the mullah will be restricted to is to give Azaan and lead prayers.

 

[yasir]

Have you guys seen this?? Serving Ranger officer distributing money to Mulvis and lending them support

https://www.facebook.com/MohammadJibranNasir/videos/815301928664682/

 

[the Great Khan]

Have you guys seen this?? Serving Ranger officer distributing money to Mulvis and lending them support

https://www.facebook.com/MohammadJibranNasir/videos/815301928664682/

I'm not surprised. One of the most overwhelming things I noticed about Islam in Pakistan and amongst Pakistanis everywhere is the Love for the Prophet pbuh. Unfortunatley this love has always been used by politicians and we are seeing this now. These Maulvis are not religious scholars anymore. They are politicians. And politicians will always have their own interests at heart. Therefore once you cross that threshold you no longer qualify to pass judgment using the deen.

 

[yasir]

I'm not surprised. One of the most overwhelming things I noticed about Islam in Pakistan and amongst Pakistanis everywhere is the Love for the Prophet pbuh. Unfortunatley this love has always been used by politicians and we are seeing this now. These Maulvis are not religious scholars anymore. They are politicians. And politicians will always have their own interests at heart. Therefore once you cross that threshold you no longer qualify to pass judgment using the deen.

This is part of the problem with Muslim societies all over the world, we never had our Santa Clara moment, for them Santa is still real, they have not grown up...You just cannot give political figures (Mohammad was/is a political figure), protection by law. Extreme Level of protectionism is the source of Extremism, more we protect the religion, more extremist we get...Intellect does not need protection, it should stand on his own, all it needs is a fair chance...Why Muslims are so insecure, they have to constantly make protection laws, engineered text books, ban online material?? - Why they cannot fight the criticism by reason...You cannot blame Politicans and Army alone, they are the messengers, message itself has problem...Dont protect any ideology, let the better one win...

Its not just illiterate but education Muslims get very emotional, as soon as you mention couple of not so positive aspects of Mohammad's life or point out errors in Quran...I have no reason to get into this detail, if religion is a private matter and not driving vision and policy of the society at large...When an ideology is driving policy, it must be scrutinize and have no protection, otherwise there is no point of having democracy... Let the Army run the country, half hearted democracy is like Ratification in Science, memorizing facts and figures does not create innovation, you have to change the culture, embrace the Science

 

[yasir]

People turn towards religious extremism because religion is the only thing that provides them with hope. They struggle to put food on the table or send their kids to school but having firm believe in God gives them hope that some day things will turn for the better.

As they say, "it's all about the money, honey".


Give these people prosperity and religious extremism will diminish and the only role the mullah will be restricted to is to give Azaan and lead prayers.

What is the difference between neighborhoods destroyed by drugs (Heroine and Meth) or by religion then??

All you are saying is that religion is a drug that is giving poor and helpless a fake hope... Like with any drug therapy, when you want to take people off the drugs, idea is not to put them on a new one. First you have to recognize drug is a problem and not the solution...

Religion has not helped educate the masses or provide them with jobs, why build society ECO system around it then?? - On the contrary, religion is only popular among the poor and helpless, yet has done nothing to improve their current state. They have to do something else to get out of it...Why invest so much into it as a society or culture?? - Just for legacy and traditions, well then say so...

 

[Abdullah]

This is interesting. Is it widely known by the masses what about the exact change that was made

 

[saadibaba]

when you have to fight to survive everyday then the comfort of the deen is all thats left. This government has failed to provide the common man with the relief they need. Give them hope and they will run towards it. Give them despair and they will run towards you with a danda!!

We cannot continue down this road of incompetence and destruction. The education system is non existant, health system is non existant, all the country now has is roads. The country is saddled with debt, under attack from terrorist **** and a PM who lives in luxury. People will turn to the one thing they know that is an absolute.

Its the thniking " they took away everything from me but by God swt I wont let them take this last thing that i have left"

and its all self inflicted.

Though I agree that our govts. failure to provide basic social services and the rule of law, a lot of people have tilted further towards religion but there are plenty of well fed and prosperous people in Pakistan who are as much the religious fanatics and hardliners than anyone.

Its because of the spread of hard line Saudi funded madrassah's everywhere and the slow and steady Islamization of our identity and ideology through changes in our school syllabus and state run media's propaganda that has shift us from a modern vibrant country who happens to have a majority muslim population to the self proclaimed citadel of Islam and the upholder of all our religious dogmas.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

The biggest problem is that some Mullahs and their supporters think that they have to "protect the finalhood" of our beloved Prophet. Yes as ridiculous as it sounds its true. Like it is in their Aukaat to protect something which is Protected and declared as truth by Almighty Allah Himself. They have exaggerated sense of self importance and think without their hooliganism, Islam will vanish from the world. Islam isn't so small that it would need protection from these nobodies.

well said. These maulvis and the simple minded, emotional folks who follow them are causing nothing but problems for Pakistan

 

[yasir]

Why Establishment is not equally Bad

Whenever politician A makes deal with Establishment(aka Army the Chief Negotiator), we only consider Politician A as bad guy, why the other party is not considered bad?? They are the main guys flipping between politicans and keep doing what they want to do...

According to even religious principle "Rishwat Dinay wala aur Linay wala" are equally corrupt. Why we don't blame Army with equal ferocity for every corrupt deal making?? - Its always Nawaz/Zaradri/Benezir (coming soon IK) who are the bad guys, Army can do no wrong

Keep in mind most(if not all) of these politicians are brought in to public figure by Almighty Army as well. Nawaz Shrief pore money to get into politics, not only Army new it, they were receiving the money from him in 80s....Their batting average in producing good politician is also very poor. We are not questioning the chief selector

Track Record of Pak Army in managing Law and Order

Many people say, Army is not monetarily not corrupt, which I am not sure, since we never audit finances of Army or its general...We will find lot of skeletons if we poke seriously, not sure if we are going to do that any time soon...Is there another way to dig at the corruption of institution...

Again many people blame Pakistan Army to be best institution of the country, yet Pakistan biggest problem in last two decades is law and order. That law and order has very little to do with political establishment

Most of Armies Strategic policies has failed in last few decades and create law and order situation worse...Using Mujadeen as gorilla fighters against India has backed fire, they have done lot more harm to Pakistan than to India, they brought AK47, Heroine with them, that is just the side effect...

The bigger vision that has gone horribly wrong is the Islamization of society and country at large, they thought religion has won them war against Russian, why not take down India. Kind of Islamization Army needed was an extreme one, which they could not control (again with good batting average), all of a sudden you have arm race of Extremist groups in the country, major side effect is that whole country has gone extremist...Tabligees and Bravelies which were suppose to be the quiet ones are the fuel for next religious wars...Army is still playing the same game, good/bad Taliban, they still have not given up on their religious ventures, they are invested in them deeply...We have yet to find a single benefit of Madaras, Tabaligees, Bravelles, extremist Sunnies for Pakistan in last 3 decades, yet we are still investing in them, all they are doing is destabilizing Pakistan, worse part is culture they are creating is making us isolated, ignorant and extremist nation, what is the benefits of all this??? :

Nobody is there to question them, whenever politicians question them, they know how to get rid of them. They don't have to face the polls or public backlash, nobody benchmark Army on law and order either...Pakistan has one of the biggest Army in the world (maybe top 5/7) yet our law and order, which is driven by Armies investments, is not in top 100, with such a big Army this is one of the worse law and order in the world...We are happy hunting ground for all extremist groups, why?? - What is the point of such a fat army if we are getting these results?? :