The difference in body language

[Ghazinator1313]

Watching the match today, I cannot help but notice the vast difference in body language of Pakistan. Why does it seem that we come out on the field just to lose, when it comes to India? In recent times, post 2011, Indian players have not had the most overly aggressive body language either against Pakistan, but there is still an air of confidence about them. Our players simply look defeated and clueless as soon as they step on the field, even uninterested...leading them to drop catches, make outrageous decisions, and simply look like schoolboys. Is it a Pakistani thing? I personally don't think so. As a Pakistani myself, I have felt nervousness when competing in anything, not just sports. At the end of the day though, it's about backing your ability and simply enjoying the very thing you have trained the majority of your life for. Now, some will say it is the lack of ability. I do understand that point of view, however, why does the ability drop immensely just against India? Dropped catches, not giving Hafeez a bowl...It's all just mind boggling. Indian team is brimming with ability, no doubt. However, they more just capitalize on our mistakes, and maximize the result. What are your thoughts PP? What is this phenomenon?

 

[jnaveen1980]

Difference is opposition . India has strengths to neutralize Pakistan something many foreign teams lack. Wristy players take singles and 2s easily something SA can't do.

 

[Mamoon]

It has to do with facing a team that is a bigger choker than us.

 

[IndYeah1]

It has to do with facing a team that is a bigger choker than us.

Funny but true.


I think the Pakistani players overthink the magnitude of the game. Its such a 'big' game in their minds, that even if they have now started saying the right things about taking it as just a game, they simply can't.

And the Indian players just have more experience dealing with pressure now. So they are a bit better at handling it.

 

[Ghazinator1313]

Funny but true.


I think the Pakistani players overthink the magnitude of the game. Its such a 'big' game in their minds, that even if they have now started saying the right things about taking it as just a game, they simply can't.

And the Indian players just have more experience dealing with pressure now. So they are a bit better at handling it.

I can see that with the older generation of players. The "rivalry" has died off with the new generation quite a bit. Nor Indians nor Pakistanis take is as seriously as we once did

 

[IndYeah1]

I can see that with the older generation of players. The "rivalry" has died off with the new generation quite a bit. Nor Indians nor Pakistanis take is as seriously as we once did

May not take it seriously, but its still quite a rivalry.

 

[Macho Mann]

the pitches are made for 300 plus score, pakistan didnt ball half bad until last four overs the total was supposed to be around 250-270, inexpereinced bowlers did very poor death bowling

pakistan doesnt have good enough pacers to be threatening with good line and length for flat pitches

wahab riaz was the main character which lost game for pakistan

secondly pakistan doesnt have good batting to chase 300 plus scores

physcologically pak lost in last 4 indian batting overs

 

[Macho Mann]

and to add pakistan doesnt have good spinners, they cant spin the bowl, only variation through imad and shadab, hafeez we need proper spinners in the team not make shift spinners

 

[New Yorker]

It has to do with facing a team that is a bigger choker than us.

mystical thinking. playing a mediocre team in a second tier icc tourney in which you have already
won a game is a pressure game? what game isn't for them in that case? how did they ever get to
no 1.

i'd say that for whatever reason they seem to have developed a relative weakness against pakistan
in recent years. it's not abut icc tournaments only. we won the last bilateral odi series against them
in south africa. our record against them in the last 10 ODIs is 5/5, what we could only dream of vs
Ind, Aus, and Eng

Why do we have an easier time against them I don't know. Do we play Tahir better than other teams?
Are they relatively weak against spin? I'd not have thought so.

Yet unless you modify that to 'choker vs pakistan' i.e. i don't see the term being very useful.
It begs more explanation than it provides.

 

[Pete Rose]

Yes body language did it

 

[Savak]

The pressure of playing against India. Against other teams the boys are more chilled out.

 

[Mamoon]

mystical thinking. playing a mediocre team in a second tier icc tourney in which you have already
won a game is a pressure game? what game isn't for them in that case? how did they ever get to
no 1.

i'd say that for whatever reason they seem to have developed a relative weakness against pakistan
in recent years. it's not abut icc tournaments only. we won the last bilateral odi series against them
in south africa. our record against them in the last 10 ODIs is 5/5, what we could only dream of vs
Ind, Aus, and Eng

Why do we have an easier time against them I don't know. Do we play Tahir better than other teams?
Are they relatively weak against spin? I'd not have thought so.

Yet unless you modify that to 'choker vs pakistan' i.e. i don't see the term being very useful.
It begs more explanation than it provides.

But this weakness seems to have a positive effect on our team. For a while now, we seem to be all over SA like a rash even before the game gets going. The body language and attitude is completely different from the matches vs India, Australia and England. There seems to be a belief in the players that they can put SA on the ropes, which obviously stems from the C tag.

I hope I'm not wrong, but I fully expect a flat, dejected performance if we face England in the semifinals. Against SA and NZ, there will always be a chance of a sparkling performance irrespective of the difference in quality and recent form.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

We should have won against India but our batsmen arent good enough. Amir's injury also played a part what should be a ~290 target and 290 is chaseable. Indian bowlers apart from Jadeja weren't special.

 

[Mamoon]

But this weakness seems to have a positive effect on our team. For a while now, we seem to be all over SA like a rash even before the game gets going. The body language and attitude is completely different from the matches vs India, Australia and England. There seems to be a belief in the players that they can put SA on the ropes, which obviously stems from the C tag.

I hope I'm not wrong, but I fully expect a flat, dejected performance if we face England in the semifinals. Against SA and NZ, there will always be a chance of a sparkling performance irrespective of the difference in quality and recent form.

I hope I am wrong*

 

[Lynx]

Because our boys are a bundle of nerves when they play India, mainly due to all the hype created back home. It's as if they're going into a war zone, not a stadium. Indian players are much more professional and take it as just another game. You could see how the pressure was off them today and their body language plus performance was far, far better than what we saw in the game against India.

Our media really needs to learn how to tone down all this nationalistic/jingoistic rhetoric before every Pak India match.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Today was a special effort and one of the best bowling effort in the tournament but the main problem is still batting. I doubt we are good enough to chase 270 even against SL. And 270 is a below par score.

 

[cricketInsight]

I think it comes to this against IND in big matches:

IND: We beat them in all the big matches, they've got to win some so we are not going to stress about losing this one and play our natural game.

PAK: We having been losing all the big matches against them. We must win this one to start to regain some pride and shutup critics.

Once we win a few key encounters the spell will be broken.

 

[Muhammad10]

Our team seems to lack self-belief against India. I think we need to somehow break the streak and win a couple against the parosis and, in shaa Allah, the floodgates will open thereafter.
Just hope we aren't in for further decades of futile attempts.

 

[clean n cool]

Unbelievable difference in body language! we really don't look like a professional team when playing against india ....shoaib malik was the only batsman one who meant business when he came to bat wish he hadn't been run out and had come out above hafeez ...match would definitely have been much tighter

 

[jnaveen1980]

None of the team has crossed 200 against India even in warm-ups. Indian bowling is strong. But for sloppy fielding of India, Pakistan would have been rolled over under 150. SA team boasts some of the best players who are individually legaues ahead of every Pakistan player. They collectively choke in big matches against Pakistan. I very much doubt even a single pakistan player would walk into the side of SA.

 

[Abdullah]

I'm pretty confident we can beat any team except India.
It's just a mental block. A bit like Tottenham vs Chelsea and mouurinho v wenger( I know wenger 1 1 game last season)

We can do to England what we done today too though it will be easier if they are chasing

 

[geraltofrivia]

But this weakness seems to have a positive effect on our team. For a while now, we seem to be all over SA like a rash even before the game gets going. The body language and attitude is completely different from the matches vs India, Australia and England. There seems to be a belief in the players that they can put SA on the ropes, which obviously stems from the C tag.

I hope I'm not wrong, but I fully expect a flat, dejected performance if we face England in the semifinals. Against SA and NZ, there will always be a chance of a sparkling performance irrespective of the difference in quality and recent form.

Not NZ. Pakistan has been NZ's doormat last five years in ODIs. It's SA only they have done relatively well against (The W/L is still negative but far more equal than against the other big teams).

 

[geraltofrivia]

I'm pretty confident we can beat any team except India.
It's just a mental block. A bit like Tottenham vs Chelsea and mouurinho v wenger( I know wenger 1 1 game last season)

We can do to England what we done today too though it will be easier if they are chasing

No. Pakistan has been very poor against England, Australia and New Zealand. Even when Pakistan were winning all those test series in the UAE they were getting smashed in the ODIs.

Pakistan do relatively well against SA as the spinners choke them in the middle overs (something they fail to do against other teams).

 

[Napa]

Part (not whole, only part) of the explanation for some Pakistani players at least may be the size of the IPL contracts the Indian players have. If X was bowling to Y and X knew Y was earning 10X of what X was earning, it is quite possible that mentally X already conceded that Y was better.

 

[Titan24]

Part (not whole, only part) of the explanation for some Pakistani players at least may be the size of the IPL contracts the Indian players have. If X was bowling to Y and X knew Y was earning 10X of what X was earning, it is quite possible that mentally X already conceded that Y was better.

Lol! Funny explanation.

Though I have to tell you that Ahmed Shehzad earned 220,000$ in last PSL contract which might be more than few of your fast bowlers.

 

[member250]

But this weakness seems to have a positive effect on our team. For a while now, we seem to be all over SA like a rash even before the game gets going. The body language and attitude is completely different from the matches vs India, Australia and England. There seems to be a belief in the players that they can put SA on the ropes, which obviously stems from the C tag.

I hope I'm not wrong, but I fully expect a flat, dejected performance if we face England in the semifinals. Against SA and NZ, there will always be a chance of a sparkling performance irrespective of the difference in quality and recent form.

Pakistan have won 4 out of last 5 games against SA. Pakistan is only south asian team to have won ODI series in South Africa And record against SA in ICC events is 6-1 lately. I remember the days when SA used to absolutely murder Pakistan in ODI's. Especially back in the days of waseem akram or even later when Pak used to one of top ODI teams. But against SA for some reason our record was much worst then any other team unlike now.

Basically Pakistani fans shouldn't look to much in to this performance. We will likely loss against SL.

Maybe current Pak players have grown watching how South Africa used to treat Pakistan in ODI cricket hence extra effort

 

[member250]

We should have won against India but our batsmen arent good enough. Amir's injury also played a part what should be a ~290 target and 290 is chaseable. Indian bowlers apart from Jadeja weren't special.

Should have restricted India for 280 which it looked like doing it. And then instead of Shezad and Azhar tuk tuk, actually score at decent rate. Game being 41 overs would have helped our batting chase it down

 

[geraltofrivia]

Lol! Funny explanation.

Though I have to tell you that Ahmed Shehzad earned 220,000$ in last PSL contract which might be more than few of your fast bowlers.

Naah. Not the main ones in the national team.
Bhuvi, Shami etc all are in the $700,000 bracket.
Even Bumrah who was an unknown in 2014 got $190,000.
Even someone like Sran got around ~$200,000.

 

[Mamoon]

We should have won against India but our batsmen arent good enough. Amir's injury also played a part what should be a ~290 target and 290 is chaseable. Indian bowlers apart from Jadeja weren't special.

I know, but our player are far more confident playing NZ than India, England and Australia, who have a "fear factor" we cannot cope with. Pakistan does not fear NZ and SA, regardless of what the W/L ratio may be.

 

[Abdullah]

No. Pakistan has been very poor against England, Australia and New Zealand. Even when Pakistan were winning all those test series in the UAE they were getting smashed in the ODIs.

Pakistan do relatively well against SA as the spinners choke them in the middle overs (something they fail to do against other teams).

We score 300 ( which is only par these days) we can beat anyone

 

[TQ89]

Body language won't do jack unless you complement it with skills. Everybody looks tough when they are scoring runs or taking wickets.

 

[New Yorker]

But this weakness seems to have a positive effect on our team. For a while now, we seem to be all over SA like a rash even before the game gets going. The body language and attitude is completely different from the matches vs India, Australia and England. There seems to be a belief in the players that they can put SA on the ropes, which obviously stems from the C tag.

I hope I'm not wrong, but I fully expect a flat, dejected performance if we face England in the semifinals. Against SA and NZ, there will always be a chance of a sparkling performance irrespective of the difference in quality and recent form.

I absolutely agree it has a positive performance on our team and this makes a huge difference.

But it's not about any C tag. It's about Pakistan feeling they can beat SA.

This is also why I have hopes that a better captain can make a difference. So much of the game
is about confidence and attitude.

But Sarfraz needs to start leading also with the bat.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

and to add pakistan doesnt have good spinners, they cant spin the bowl, only variation through imad and shadab, hafeez we need proper spinners in the team not make shift spinners

Actually you're wrong. There was a graphic shown during yesterday's game that showed the leading spinners in Odis (Tahir, Jadeja etc) have been successful because they attack the stumps and rely on variations in speed , not on turning it.