The England approach to batting in T20Is will never work for Pakistan

[Bilal7]

We simply do not have the players to go hard from ball one. What we do have are two superbly consistent openers who can lay a solid platform and ensure that runs keep coming from one end.

What we also have is a world-class pack of bowlers that can consistently defend below-par scores and can pick wickets at any stage of the game.

Let's stop demanding that the players try to copy an approach that they won't succeed at. They need to master their own game and become unbeatable at it.

 

[hitthestump]

How dare you bring logic, reason and analysis.

Don't you know that we can just make Asif Ali (c) the opener and pair him with Sharjeel and we will be Pakistan 2.0??

 

[Kianig89]

but we dont have a middle order which is like spine so without it whatever approach we adopt we'll fail

 

[jnaveen1980]

England approach will work only for England. Not others. They compromise on their bowling by focusing on depth in batting. Lot of six hitters peppered right through the line up. But that may help in one dayers on flat pitches. But moment there is a collapse England's strategy will fall apart.

 

[Rana]

I guess we are doomed to play Test cricket in T20

 

[Dr_Bassim]

No what we have is two openers who refuse to demote themsleves to try alternatives.

We also have stubborn fans who support their refusal to budge and continue to parrot the same.

Unless we become flexible, we cant assume anything.

 

[Rana]

No what we have is two openers who refuse to demote themsleves to try alternatives.

We also have stubborn fans who support their refusal to budge and continue to parrot the same.

Unless we become flexible, we cant assume anything.

Our stubborn fans are so anti power hitters lol

 

[daytrader]

Our stubborn fans are so anti power hitters lol

We just don't have the quality of power hitters. What we do have are two very good batters who can be relied on to give us a target that can be defended

 

[Rana]

We just don't have the quality of power hitters. What we do have are two very good batters who can be relied on to give us a target that can be defended

[MENTION=43242]Dr_Bassim[/MENTION]

There you go

 

[daytrader]

[MENTION=43242]Dr_Bassim[/MENTION]

There you go

Ok so where's our Buttler, better yet, name me a Phil Salt

 

[Rana]

Ok so where's our Buttler, better yet, name me a Phil Salt

No matter who I name

You will be ready to mock. Ridicule and discredit.

So no point

 

[daytrader]

No matter who I name

You will be ready to mock. Ridicule and discredit.

So no point

If logic says so, I will. I call a spade a spade.

However, If you can back your names with solid reasoning then it can be discussed.

 

[Rana]

If logic says so, I will. I call a spade a spade.

However, If you can back your names with solid reasoning then it can be discussed.

Tbh, I can’t back them with the stats you want to hear

So I won’t even bother.

 

[Bilal7]

How dare you bring logic, reason and analysis to this forum.

Don't you know that we can just make Asif Ali (c) the opener and pair him with Sharjeel and we will be Pakistan 2.0??

The quality has gone down but on days like this, people should be in agreement. We could have played our usual game and gotten 160. Instead, we tried to go for 180 and ended up well short.

 

[Bilal7]

Tbh, I can’t back them with the stats you want to hear

So I won’t even bother.

Nice way of admitting you have no alternatives because there really are no alternatives to the #1 and #3 ranked T20 batsmen in the world.

 

[Rana]

Nice way of admitting you have no alternatives because there really are no alternatives to the #1 and #3 ranked T20 batsmen in the world.

If you say so mate

 

[jnaveen1980]

Ok so where's our Buttler, better yet, name me a Phil Salt

You have to ask "Where is your Afridi, Abdul Razzaq". Looks like they were able to hit sixes during the time when single ball was used more freely.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Nice way of admitting you have no alternatives because there really are no alternatives to the #1 and #3 ranked T20 batsmen in the world.

There is no point playing for rankings if the batsmen don't have enough "impact" to win you games.

However, as usual the word impact has no relation to Pakistani fans.

They just look at 50 average and say OMG best batsmen in the world.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Ijaz Ahmed, Basit Ali, Anwar, Inzamam were all much better six hitters than the current Pakistan lot

 

[IAJ]

Tbh, I can’t back them with the stats you want to hear

So I won’t even bother.

Shabash, te fer awain ee har taagey wich roula rappa paya ee. Jaan day.

 

[daytrader]

You have to ask "Where is your Afridi, Abdul Razzaq". Looks like they were able to hit sixes during the time when single ball was used more freely.

I think the biggest reason we don't have good power hitters is that we had a mediocre cricketer in Afridi who we put on a pedestal. His 'boom boom out' approach did us more harm than any good. He's the template for our power hitting. Close your eyes and swing away. If it connects, it's a six otherwise walk back without any shame.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I think the biggest reason we don't have good power hitters is that we had a mediocre cricketer in Afridi who we put on a pedestal. His 'boom boom out' approach did us more harm than any good. He's the template for our power hitting. Close your eyes and swing away. If it connects, it's a six otherwise walk back without any shame.

But he hit a lot of sixes with that approach. When he connected it travelled big. But these guys seems to connect well. Ball barely reaches the boundary. They have to nail it with near perfection to send it over the boundary. Nobody will say Afridi is the greatest timer of the ball. It was all violent bat speed.

 

[Bilal7]

There is no point playing for rankings if the batsmen don't have enough "impact" to win you games.

However, as usual the word impact has no relation to Pakistani fans.

They just look at 50 average and say OMG best batsmen in the world.

No, the ICC rankings show that Rizwan is the #1 batsman in the world while Babar is #3. Their impact is also clear from the number of MOTM awards that they have both won.

This is my evidence for why it is absolutely idiotic to even suggest that Pakistan change the one thing that is working in the batting department.

You are going off conjecture that Fakhar, who can't play a forward defensive these days would suddenly turn into David Warner after not having played a single game since the Asia cup and not even being in the actual squad. Who else can open? Asif Ali? Lmao. Or Shan Masood, who is an inferior, left-handed version of Babar?

 

[Dr_Bassim]

No, the ICC rankings show that Rizwan is the #1 batsman in the world while Babar is #3. Their impact is also clear from the number of MOTM awards that they have both won.

This is my evidence for why it is absolutely idiotic to even suggest that Pakistan change the one thing that is working in the batting department.

You are going off conjecture that Fakhar, who can't play a forward defensive these days would suddenly turn into David Warner after not having played a single game since the Asia cup and not even being in the actual squad. Who else can open? Asif Ali? Lmao. Or Shan Masood, who is an inferior, left-handed version of Babar?

You are the one who harps on Shan as number 3 anchor for Pakistan.

Anyways, remind me how many T20 tournaments (World, Asia ) these top batsmen have won?

And don't give the rhetorical cop out that "teams win matches".

Once they start having an impact, their T20 ranking won't matter.

A better question is

Which top team in the World WANTS BABAR/RIZWAN opening for them barring perhaps Bangladesh?

The answer will tell you all about your cherished ranking.

 

[daytrader]

But he hit a lot of sixes with that approach. When he connected it travelled big. But these guys seems to connect well. Ball barely reaches the boundary. They have to nail it with near perfection to send it over the boundary. Nobody will say Afridi is the greatest timer of the ball. It was all violent bat speed.

He hit a lot of sixes because he played a lot of games. He had brutal power which was going his way. Whether his approach was successful, is subjective.

For comparison:
Afridi had 73 sixes in 91 T20I innings
Rizwan has 66 from 60 T20I innings

 

[Bilal7]

You are the one who harps on Shan as number 3 anchor for Pakistan.

Anyways, remind me how many T20 tournaments (World, Asia ) these top batsmen have won?

And don't give the rhetorical cop out that "teams win matches".

Once they start having an impact, their T20 ranking won't matter.

A better question is

Which top team in the World WANTS BABAR/RIZWAN opening for them barring perhaps Bangladesh?

The answer will tell you all about your cherished ranking.

Every team would want the #1 and #3 T20 batsmen in the world to be opening for them. Every single team except India, but for non-cricketing reasons.

Babar and Rizwan were the reason we made the semi-finals of the last WC and if Hasan had taken that catch and Shaheen hadn't gone for three consecutive sixes, we would have won that tournament. We also made the finals of the Asia Cup so that's two tournaments where Babar and Rizwan got us further than Rohit and Rahul got India. By your own logic, it is clear which is the superior batting pair.

I ask you once again, who is going to open for Pakistan if not Babar and Rizwan? If you have any alternatives, do name them.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Every team would want the #1 and #3 T20 batsmen in the world to be opening for them. Every single team except India, but for non-cricketing reasons.

Babar and Rizwan were the reason we made the semi-finals of the last WC and if Hasan had taken that catch and Shaheen hadn't gone for three consecutive sixes, we would have won that tournament. We also made the finals of the Asia Cup so that's two tournaments where Babar and Rizwan got us further than Rohit and Rahul got India. By your own logic, it is clear which is the superior batting pair.

I ask you once again, who is going to open for Pakistan if not Babar and Rizwan? If you have any alternatives, do name them.

Since you believe England, Australia and other top teams want Rizwan and Babar opening for them, instead of Butler, Green, Allen etc, we have nothing more to discuss.

Enjoy your fantasy.

 

[Xoib]

Every team would want the #1 and #3 T20 batsmen in the world to be opening for them. Every single team except India, but for non-cricketing reasons.

Babar and Rizwan were the reason we made the semi-finals of the last WC and if Hasan had taken that catch and Shaheen hadn't gone for three consecutive sixes, we would have won that tournament. We also made the finals of the Asia Cup so that's two tournaments where Babar and Rizwan got us further than Rohit and Rahul got India. By your own logic, it is clear which is the superior batting pair.

I ask you once again, who is going to open for Pakistan if not Babar and Rizwan? If you have any alternatives, do name them.

Azam Khan and Sharjeel Khan since they are proven and will not fall flat on the face like Khushdil and Asif when the my made the grade up from PSL to Int T 20

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Azam Khan and Sharjeel Khan since they are proven and will not fall flat on the face like Khushdil and Asif when the my made the grade up from PSL to Int T 20

Or we could pretend the aquarium doesn't have any other fish by giving food to the 2 fish who look very pretty.

Keep feeding them while other fish around them starve.

Don't try to feed other fish.

 

[Bilal7]

Since you believe England, Australia and other top teams want Rizwan and Babar opening for them, instead of Butler, Green, Allen etc, we have nothing more to discuss.

Enjoy your fantasy.

Don't run away now. Who are the alternatives? Or are you just a critic for the sake of it?

Either put up or refrain from asking for Rizwan to be replaced when you turn into a scared kitten when someones asks you who that replacement should be.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Don't run away now. Who are the alternatives? Or are you just a critic for the sake of it?

Either put up or refrain from asking for Rizwan to be replaced when you turn into a scared kitten when someones asks you who that replacement should be.

Why should I ?

Any player I will name will start from zero and you will ridicule him because he doesn't average 50 yet.

But you said with a straight face that all teams want Rizwan Babar to open for them.

That tells me all I need to know.

 

[Bilal7]

Azam Khan and Sharjeel Khan since they are proven and will not fall flat on the face like Khushdil and Asif when the my made the grade up from PSL to Int T 20

Azam Khan and Sharjeel Khan are on their respective couches right now getting fat and not in Australia. Therefore, I doubt that you can replace Babar and Rizwan with them for this world cup.

Sharjeel is also 33 and his last international 50 came in 2016. Do you also want Umar Akmal back? He did nothing in the 6 chances that he got in 2021.

Azam may be a good prospect for the future but like I said, he's not in the squad for this tournament.

 

[Bilal7]

Why should I ?

Any player I will name will start from zero and you will ridicule him because he doesn't average 50 yet.

But you said with a straight face that all teams want Rizwan Babar to open for them.

That tells me all I need to know.

Okay, so come back when you actually have an alternative.

 

[Unleashed]

Every team would want the #1 and #3 T20 batsmen in the world to be opening for them. Every single team except India, but for non-cricketing reasons.

Babar and Rizwan were the reason we made the semi-finals of the last WC and if Hasan had taken that catch and Shaheen hadn't gone for three consecutive sixes, we would have won that tournament. We also made the finals of the Asia Cup so that's two tournaments where Babar and Rizwan got us further than Rohit and Rahul got India. By your own logic, it is clear which is the superior batting pair.

I ask you once again, who is going to open for Pakistan if not Babar and Rizwan? If you have any alternatives, do name them.

That's delusional to think like that. England, Australia for starters won't. Even if we apply cricketing logic, then I'd take one of Rizwan and Babar over Rahul, but I wouldn't take them over Rohit.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Okay, so come back when you actually have an alternative.

Sure.

While you can maintain status quo and enjoy the fantasy that all teams are desperate for Babar and Rizwan to open for them.

 

[Energy]

Since you believe England, Australia and other top teams want Rizwan and Babar opening for them, instead of Butler, Green, Allen etc, we have nothing more to discuss.

Enjoy your fantasy.

How many world T20 tournaments have Buttler, Green and Allen won? Since that's the basis you used for Babar and Rizwan.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

How many world T20 tournaments have Buttler, Green and Allen won? Since that's the basis you used for Babar and Rizwan.

None.

But they have a greater chance of impacting since they don't target 160 like Babar and Rizwan.

My benchmark is not just winning tournaments but the "ability to impact".

 

[MHN1293]

None.

But they have a greater chance of impacting since they don't target 160 like Babar and Rizwan.

My benchmark is not just winning tournaments but the "ability to impact".

Good luck winning tournaments with and already fragile middle order paired up with two more tullybaaz like sharjeel at the top.

 

[MHN1293]

The only tournaments babar-rizwan have played, they have propelled us to the semi final and the final in the Asia cup. Helped us win 2 out of 3 games against India and ended the world Cup losing streak. Most of our 200+ scores and chases have also come when both of them have fired.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Good luck winning tournaments with and already fragile middle order paired up with two more tullybaaz like sharjeel at the top.

Your assumption is I want Sharjeel as opener.

At this point, I would open with Asif or even Shadab. I don't care what pedigree they have opening.
If they are able to get Pakistan to 60-70/2 wickets in 6 overs, they have done their job.

The problem is if you bank on Rizwan and Babar to win you tournaments, you are hoping no team scores more than 160. And please don't give nonsense about how Babar and Rizwan chased 200 against England few matches ago. I watched the bowlers in the match and when they chased something similar against South Africa and Windies.

The World T20 is not going to be made up of bowlers who will give away 200 runs at the blink of an eye and will have bowlers of pedigree. Then the excuses will start that "They can't chase 200 every single time alone".

Well, they can't chase above 180 in ANY GAME with an ESTABLISHED ATTACK. Our captain's psyche tells all you need to know about Pakistan and their targets. Forget my opinions. Your captain says that we target 50 in 6 overs, 80 in 10 and 160 in 20 overs and that's a good score. And you want to win the World Cup with those tactics?

Most fans have resigned themselves that this is the best Pakistan has to offer.

However, we didn't bother moving the "Chosen Openers" even for ONE GAME. It was as if moving them, would commit a cardinal sin. And we had hordes of fans, clapping and cheering them for not being moved.

We rarely experiment, we have a stubborn captain, we refuse to acknowledge different ways to deal with the same problem and we are hell bent on proving that since our openers are ranked 3 and 1 in T20 we must be doing it right.

This tournament is going to end in tears for Pakistan. And it won't be because the middle order didn't exist. It will be because Babar and Rizwan will target 160 in every game and will be found wanting IN EVERY such game where the pitch is true.

Bookmark this post and read it again when the tournament has finished.

 

[MHN1293]

Your assumption is I want Sharjeel as opener.

At this point, I would open with Asif or even Shadab. I don't care what pedigree they have opening.
If they are able to get Pakistan to 60-70/2 wickets in 6 overs, they have done their job.

The problem is if you bank on Rizwan and Babar to win you tournaments, you are hoping no team scores more than 160. And please don't give nonsense about how Babar and Rizwan chased 200 against England few matches ago. I watched the bowlers in the match and when they chased something similar against South Africa and Windies.

The World T20 is not going to be made up of bowlers who will give away 200 runs at the blink of an eye and will have bowlers of pedigree. Then the excuses will start that "They can't chase 200 every single time alone".

Well, they can't chase above 180 in ANY GAME with an ESTABLISHED ATTACK. Our captain's psyche tells all you need to know about Pakistan and their targets. Forget my opinions. Your captain says that we target 50 in 6 overs, 80 in 10 and 160 in 20 overs and that's a good score. And you want to win the World Cup with those tactics?

Most fans have resigned themselves that this is the best Pakistan has to offer.

However, we didn't bother moving the "Chosen Openers" even for ONE GAME. It was as if moving them, would commit a cardinal sin. And we had hordes of fans, clapping and cheering them for not being moved.

We rarely experiment, we have a stubborn captain, we refuse to acknowledge different ways to deal with the same problem and we are hell bent on proving that since our openers are ranked 3 and 1 in T20 we must be doing it right.

This tournament is going to end in tears for Pakistan. And it won't be because the middle order didn't exist. It will be because Babar and Rizwan will target 160 in every game and will be found wanting IN EVERY such game where the pitch is true.

Bookmark this post and read it again when the tournament has finished.

I fail to see how asif Ali can provide any value at the top against world class batsmen when he fails to do so against second string bowling lineups even when he has recently gotten good amount of balls to play with. Right now for this world t20 babar rizwan is our best bet.
However I would like to see Pakistan try different combination of openers in bilaterals like Muhammad haris, fakhar after the world Cup whether we do good in it or not to finally settle this debate.

 

[TheSultan]

I’ve never seen so many fans accept mediocrity in droves.

I often wondered why we are in the state that we are. It’s because the team management, PCB always harp on about how useless or inexperienced or “Young” we are and our fans lap it up. So no one asks questions, there is no accountability, there is no desire to improve.

Someone asked the question “where is our Phil Salt?”. You haven’t even looked for him. Phil Salt from a technical level does not have any great technical ability. He’s just given a bat and told to go for it with the safety of the field restrictions of the first 6 overs. If Phil Salt was played in the middle order, coming in with the scoring rate at 7 an over and pressure mounting he wouldn’t fare that much better than some of our players. But England are looking to maximise not just puff their chest out about 2 batsmen.

When people say “we just don’t have the players” or “the ability”. What do you do? Give up?

England went from legendary white ball tuk tuk masters to breaking the ODI runs record in ONE year!

You don’t base your team on what is good for 2 players. You base your team around what is best for the team.

Babar and rizwan can still do what they do playing in the middle order, but the hacks may fare better with the safety of the fielding restrictions.

But we are too scared to try it because “it will break the one thing that works”

 

[faisalm]

Whilst I agree it is a bit late in the day, the fact that rotation of the batting order hasn't happened these last few years is a major factor in where we are currently. For example, England gave their second string a run out in Pakistan and often rotate the batting order. Pakistan doing likewise would have either helped to identify the weaknesses the middle order players needed to work on, or allowed new players to be tried.

Even now, the middle order is full of walking wickets, so why not try one of them up top and see if they can be of some use and score a quick 20/30. Rizwan and Barbar already play conservatively, so the only downside I see for them is that they end up losing a chance to score easy runs whilst the field is in. Them being selfish in wanting to bat these power play overs wouldn't be an issue if they scored more freely, but they don't.

 

[Raja111]

Why can't Pakistan just try out some other players at the opening slot for a couple of matches like India did with Rohit? If it works, it will be a win, If it doesn't, Babar/Rizwan can come and play their usual game from the start.

 

[TheSultan]

Why can't Pakistan just try out some other players at the opening slot for a couple of matches like India did with Rohit? If it works, it will be a win, If it doesn't, Babar/Rizwan can come and play their usual game from the start.

Because.....because.......oh no....disaster! We will break up the undisputed, the undefeated....opening line up of the world Babar and Rizwan!

How will we ever have two players in the top 5 of the world T20 rankings again?! What's the matter with you? Can you not think?

 

[Xoib]

Your assumption is I want Sharjeel as opener.

At this point, I would open with Asif or even Shadab. I don't care what pedigree they have opening.
If they are able to get Pakistan to 60-70/2 wickets in 6 overs, they have done their job.

The problem is if you bank on Rizwan and Babar to win you tournaments, you are hoping no team scores more than 160. And please don't give nonsense about how Babar and Rizwan chased 200 against England few matches ago. I watched the bowlers in the match and when they chased something similar against South Africa and Windies.

The World T20 is not going to be made up of bowlers who will give away 200 runs at the blink of an eye and will have bowlers of pedigree. Then the excuses will start that "They can't chase 200 every single time alone".

Well, they can't chase above 180 in ANY GAME with an ESTABLISHED ATTACK. Our captain's psyche tells all you need to know about Pakistan and their targets. Forget my opinions. Your captain says that we target 50 in 6 overs, 80 in 10 and 160 in 20 overs and that's a good score. And you want to win the World Cup with those tactics?

Most fans have resigned themselves that this is the best Pakistan has to offer.

However, we didn't bother moving the "Chosen Openers" even for ONE GAME. It was as if moving them, would commit a cardinal sin. And we had hordes of fans, clapping and cheering them for not being moved.

We rarely experiment, we have a stubborn captain, we refuse to acknowledge different ways to deal with the same problem and we are hell bent on proving that since our openers are ranked 3 and 1 in T20 we must be doing it right.

This tournament is going to end in tears for Pakistan. And it won't be because the middle order didn't exist. It will be because Babar and Rizwan will target 160 in every game and will be found wanting IN EVERY such game where the pitch is true.

Bookmark this post and read it again when the tournament has finished.

Bhai sahab these Sharjeel and Asif will not give you 60/2 in power play it may happen once in 5 games but will not happen regularly more often we will be 20/3 with Babar and Rizwan doing repair work with even more pressure.

Aus, Eng, India will give an arm to have one of Babar or Rizwan you seriously think they will select Rahul, Salt, Hales or Finch over these two and why are we even comparing with these blokes we have to compare with Haris, Asif, Azam Sharjeel etc since they are available for Pakistan not Butler and Co.

The only way the current batting unit can improve is Fakhar finds form and opens with Rizwan with Babar at 3 other then that there is no alternative that makes us better.

 

[Ahmed216]

No talent in Pakistan to adopt any sort of approach whatsoever. They can drop Babar and Rizwan and bring in big hitting openers and even bigger hitting middle order batsmen but it still won’t work.
The gulf in batting talent between us and other teams is humongous

 

[Xoib]

Or we could pretend the aquarium doesn't have any other fish by giving food to the 2 fish who look very pretty.

Keep feeding them while other fish around them starve.

Don't try to feed other fish.

Other fishes have received enough food now yet they continue to starve its not Bab-Riz fault that Haris, Fakhar, Khushdil, Ifti, Haider, Shan, Asif have all failed to give any output consistently even when they have many balls to make a difference since English series it's been 10 games iof this atleast 7 games the middle order had the opportunity to put their hand up with one end open due to fall of an earlyish wicket yet no one has been able to do anything of note.

 

[Jazx]

Your assumption is I want Sharjeel as opener.

At this point, I would open with Asif or even Shadab. I don't care what pedigree they have opening.
If they are able to get Pakistan to 60-70/2 wickets in 6 overs, they have done their job.

The problem is if you bank on Rizwan and Babar to win you tournaments, you are hoping no team scores more than 160. And please don't give nonsense about how Babar and Rizwan chased 200 against England few matches ago. I watched the bowlers in the match and when they chased something similar against South Africa and Windies.

The World T20 is not going to be made up of bowlers who will give away 200 runs at the blink of an eye and will have bowlers of pedigree. Then the excuses will start that "They can't chase 200 every single time alone".

Well, they can't chase above 180 in ANY GAME with an ESTABLISHED ATTACK. Our captain's psyche tells all you need to know about Pakistan and their targets. Forget my opinions. Your captain says that we target 50 in 6 overs, 80 in 10 and 160 in 20 overs and that's a good score. And you want to win the World Cup with those tactics?

Most fans have resigned themselves that this is the best Pakistan has to offer.

However, we didn't bother moving the "Chosen Openers" even for ONE GAME. It was as if moving them, would commit a cardinal sin. And we had hordes of fans, clapping and cheering them for not being moved.

We rarely experiment, we have a stubborn captain, we refuse to acknowledge different ways to deal with the same problem and we are hell bent on proving that since our openers are ranked 3 and 1 in T20 we must be doing it right.

This tournament is going to end in tears for Pakistan. And it won't be because the middle order didn't exist. It will be because Babar and Rizwan will target 160 in every game and will be found wanting IN EVERY such game where the pitch is true.

Bookmark this post and read it again when the tournament has finished.

Asif and shadab as openers!!!! FYI experiments are done in the middle order by shuffling the batters not with the openers specially when the current one are performing superbly. You are expecting a gully cricket kind of experiment from an international team.

 

[Shafi]

No body asking to hit 1 or 2 6s per over. But at least you can reduce dot balls and positively instead of blind slogging. Our both openers are accumulator but Rizwan has better gear than Babar. Players like Ifti, Haider, Khusdil are worse than Zimbabwe batsmen. Rather take 3 bowling all rounder than these 3 hacks. No point to tuktuk 5 balls and than try to hit 6th balls.

 

[Shafi]

PCB is more into useless ranking than winning matches/trophy. Personal milestone will not make team successful.

 

[Gullycricket]

Let me swing the argument this way. Let's have Butler and Warner at top for assumption sake. Then do the posters here ridiculing Rizbar still believe that we will win tournaments. Eventually in a tournament that middle order will get exposed and we have seen how bad they are . Despite our hypothetical openers scoring 200 together we will lose at some point because either Haider will drop a catch at some point, brainfades will happen to Asif and someone like Wasim. jr will bowl total crap. I agree with OP 1000 times.

 

[ads101]

I would move Babar down to 3 if possible. Opening is the easiest position as it’s much easier to play yourself in in power play. The problem is other openers like fakhar still struggle to stay in even with powerplay, even though they don’t score that fast either. At least guys like Babar and Rizwan can use it to their benefit in terms of staying in. Babar is so technically good that he could play at 3 when most of our other batsmen will struggle even though he will probably do better opening too.

People asking to open with Asif, I dont think he will reliably stay in regardless of where he bats. A lot of the other batsmen struggle to rotate strike unlike Babar and Rizwan. So even with the easier fielding restrictions, if they’re not on song and hitting boundaries they’re going to struggle. This is why guys like Sharjeel and fakhar have not done well, they’re too reliant on hitting boundaries. Rizwan and Babar can reliably use the powerplay to pick up singles and hit the odd boundary almost every time.

I’m tempted to try Masood out as opener at this point and drop Babar to 3. Masood definitely doesn’t deserve it but at least he’s an actual opener. It looks like he’s struggling and not good enough at 3. Maybe there’s a small chance he can do well as an opener (after all he does alright in PSL with Rizwan), and Babar does well at 3, so we have 3 performing batsman in our line up than two. Having only two performing batsmen in our line up isn’t sustainable, we need at least 3, I’d even be willing to take a slight hit to the effectiveness of the opening pair so long as we got another performing batsman as a result.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Bhai sahab these Sharjeel and Asif will not give you 60/2 in power play it may happen once in 5 games but will not happen regularly more often we will be 20/3 with Babar and Rizwan doing repair work with even more pressure.

Aus, Eng, India will give an arm to have one of Babar or Rizwan you seriously think they will select Rahul, Salt, Hales or Finch over these two and why are we even comparing with these blokes we have to compare with Haris, Asif, Azam Sharjeel etc since they are available for Pakistan not Butler and Co.

The only way the current batting unit can improve is Fakhar finds form and opens with Rizwan with Babar at 3 other then that there is no alternative that makes us better.

This comment shows who is the most delusional of all.

 

[Rana]

This comment shows who is the most delusional of all.

The euphoria!

 

[Mamoon]

“Aus, Eng, India will give an arm to have one of Babar or Rizwan you seriously think they will select Rahul, Salt, Hales or Finch over these two”

)

This is why Pakistani fans are known to be the most delusional fans in the world.

 

[Rana]

Aus, Eng, India will give an arm to have one of Babar or Rizwan you seriously think they will select Rahul, Salt, Hales or Finch over these two and why are we even comparing with these blokes we have to compare with Haris, Asif, Azam Sharjeel etc since they are available for Pakistan not Butler and Co.

.

Uth oye!

 

[TheSultan]

“Aus, Eng, India will give an arm to have one of Babar or Rizwan you seriously think they will select Rahul, Salt, Hales or Finch over these two”

)

This is why Pakistani fans are known to be the most delusional fans in the world.

I can't believe I am having to agree with you more and more about Pakistan fans

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

The one parallel i can draw from an indian perspective, similar to some of the comments about the mentality & psyche of not to experiment is seeing our explosions of talents like the spin legend matchis ki teeli youtuber Chahal and pace legend Sir bhuvi Sobers get selected series after serices, tournament after tournament despite putting in mediocre performances year in and out.
Am sure this duo has pics of some BCCI big wigs in compromising positions to get selected so consistently.
No other team would have given so many chances.

 

[Xoib]

Uth oye!

Chalo give me 24 hours and I come back with evidence if I can't give factual evidence then you win

 

[daytrader]

I’ve never seen so many fans accept mediocrity in droves.

I often wondered why we are in the state that we are. It’s because the team management, PCB always harp on about how useless or inexperienced or “Young” we are and our fans lap it up. So no one asks questions, there is no accountability, there is no desire to improve.

Someone asked the question “where is our Phil Salt?”. You haven’t even looked for him. Phil Salt from a technical level does not have any great technical ability. He’s just given a bat and told to go for it with the safety of the field restrictions of the first 6 overs. If Phil Salt was played in the middle order, coming in with the scoring rate at 7 an over and pressure mounting he wouldn’t fare that much better than some of our players. But England are looking to maximise not just puff their chest out about 2 batsmen.

When people say “we just don’t have the players” or “the ability”. What do you do? Give up?

England went from legendary white ball tuk tuk masters to breaking the ODI runs record in ONE year!

You don’t base your team on what is good for 2 players. You base your team around what is best for the team.

Babar and rizwan can still do what they do playing in the middle order, but the hacks may fare better with the safety of the fielding restrictions.

But we are too scared to try it because “it will break the one thing that works”

Phil Salt has over 160 T20s under his belt and strikes at 150 even domestically. He wasn't just given a bat and told to go smash them, he proved he could and had performances to back that. We don't have any openers in domestics that strike at 150 consistently.

 

[TheSultan]

Phil Salt has over 160 T20s under his belt and strikes at 150 even domestically. He wasn't just given a bat and told to go smash them, he proved he could and had performances to back that. We don't have any openers in domestics that strike at 150 consistently.

Not everything is based on stats. And even if you want to go there, the OPENER in domestic cricket striking the highest is Sharjeel - so if we go by stats, what right do BaRiz have of opening ahead of him?

My argument still stands - we need to identify someone who we recognise that can hit out, and utilise them. Give them a job, some confidence and send them up the order. Babar and Riz can do their patch up job if required after a wicket has gone down. Isn't worth a try? What can possibly happen? Oooooh Pakistan lose an early wicket - what a disaster!

I don't understand why you tuk tuk merchants want Pakistan to stay in the dark ages?

 

[Bilal7]

Sharjeel is a fat, 33 year old that had a SR of barely 100 during the 6 matches that he played in 2021. His last international 50 was in 2016.

Then we had someone suggest that Shadab Khan and Asif Ali open for us. I like both of them but they simply do not have the technique to open the batting and there is no chance in hell that these guys will get us to 70/2 in the PP. I'm not sure about you guys but I simply don't see a bowler who can bat a bit and a guy who cannot cover drive scoring at more than 11 runs an over against the likes of Rabada, Starc, Boult, Wood, etc.

There is no one in the world that I'd rather have opening for us than Babar and Rizwan. Babar was the best opener in the last World Cup and Rizwan was the best opener in the last Asia Cup.

The Middle order? Yes, that is where the problem is but as usual, leave it to some of the chachas here to try and fix the one thing that isn't broken in the Pakistan batting lineup.

 

[TheSultan]

Sharjeel is a fat, 33 year old that had a SR of barely 100 during the 6 matches that he played in 2021. His last international 50 was in 2016.

Then we had someone suggest that Shadab Khan and Asif Ali open for us. I like both of them but they simply do not have the technique to open the batting and there is no chance in hell that these guys will get us to 70/2 in the PP. I'm not sure about you guys but I simply don't see a bowler who can bat a bit and a guy who cannot cover drive scoring at more than 11 runs an over against the likes of Rabada, Starc, Boult, Wood, etc.

There is no one in the world that I'd rather have opening for us than Babar and Rizwan. Babar was the best opener in the last World Cup and Rizwan was the best opener in the last Asia Cup.

The Middle order? Yes, that is where the problem is but as usual, leave it to some of the chachas here to try and fix the one thing that isn't broken in the Pakistan batting lineup.

Ok, so the solution is simple for you guys:

Salute Babar and Riz, fix the middle order, apart from that let's all give up. Cheers. There's no need for you to comment then.

 

[Bilal7]

As usual, not surprised that the usual critics have absolutely zero evidence to back up any of their claims. This is because they simply cannot because their position has no basis to begin with.

Here are the numbers of IT20 openers for the last two years:



No minnows and it's clear to anyone with even a below-average IQ that the best openers in the world are Rizwan, Buttler, Babar and Warner. Babar went through a lean patch this year, which is why his numbers suffered but he's Babar Azam and seems to be getting close to his best.

 

[Bilal7]

Babar and Rizwan strike at a better rate than De Kock, Rahul, Finch, Hendricks and Roy and at an comparable rate to Guptill, with a far superior average.

I ask once again, which team wouldn't want Babar and Rizwan opening for them?

 

[TheSultan]

As usual, not surprised that the usual critics have absolutely zero evidence to back up any of their claims. This is because they simply cannot because their position has no basis to begin with.

Here are the numbers of IT20 openers for the last two years:

View attachment 117391

No minnows and it's clear to anyone with even a below-average IQ that the best openers in the world are Rizwan, Buttler, Babar and Warner. Babar went through a lean patch this year, which is why his numbers suffered but he's Babar Azam and seems to be getting close to his best.

I'd put Lewis, Rohit and Guptill ahead of them. Rizwan's stats resemble very similar reading to Reeza Hendricks.

So that means pretty much every major country has an opener that scores quicker than Babar and Riz. Thanks for the stats

 

[Rana]

Babar and Rizwan strike at a better rate than De Kock, Rahul, Finch, Hendricks and Roy and at an comparable rate to Guptill, with a far superior average.

I ask once again, which team wouldn't want Babar and Rizwan opening for them?

No one. No team besides Bangladesh maybe. Stats mean Jack all. The quality of opposition Pakistan play is inferior to the quality of opposition these big names play (when they do).

 

[Bilal7]

No one. No team besides Bangladesh maybe. Stats mean Jack all. The quality of opposition Pakistan play is inferior to the quality of opposition these big names play (when they do).

Stats don't lie unlike your feelings. Only an absolute idiot would claim "stats mean jack all" when they are the basis that everyone uses to judge players, including every single international team's management.

You guys need to get on with the time. You can no longer hide behind your thoughts and feelings. Everything is out in the open now and you need to provide evidence to back up your nonsensical claims.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

It will work, if not in 2022 might be in 2023/ 2024 if you plan.

Just thing how ENG odi/ t20 sides used to be till 2015 ? They used to play test sides in white ball and their white ball players also were never good enough, they changed their approach from grass root level and saw results over a period of time.

 

[Kianig89]

Agreed that Pakistan cannot mimic England but for any strategy a basic requirement is capable personnel and unfortunately we lack in that department we need capable batsman ot better use of available players, Shan Iftikhar Khushdil are just not cut for top level T20 cricket, Also the coaching staff is not that advanced

 

[Rana]

Stats don't lie unlike your feelings. Only an absolute idiot would claim "stats mean jack all" when they are the basis that everyone uses to judge players, including every single international team's management.

You guys need to get on with the time. You can no longer hide behind your thoughts and feelings. Everything is out in the open now and you need to provide evidence to back up your nonsensical claims.

Mate you’ve got a picture of Misbah and you are telling ‘us guys need to get on with time’.

Stats honestly mean Jack all when your no.1 player enters a run chase in a big match final at 8.5 and gets out with the required rr is 16+

 

[Bilal7]

Mate you’ve got a picture of Misbah and you are telling ‘us guys need to get on with time’.

Stats honestly mean Jack all when your no.1 player enters a run chase in a big match final at 8.5 and gets out with the required rr is 16+

Yes, a display picture of Misbah when he took the team to #1 in the world. What does that have to do with anything?

You need to understand what statistics are. One match does not make a player and you can't blame Rizwan for that loss when Iftikhar played even slower when his job was to accelerate.

Rizwan helped us win the match against India which was the actual final of that Asia cup.

 

[Rana]

Yes, a display picture of Misbah when he took the team to #1 in the world. What does that have to do with anything?

You need to understand what statistics are. One match does not make a player and you can't blame Rizwan for that loss when Iftikhar played even slower when his job was to accelerate.

Rizwan helped us win the match against India which was the actual final of that Asia cup.

?

So I guess if we lose to India on the 23rd but win the World Cup….we’ve already lost the trophy?

 

[Kroll]

Doesn't have to be England approach but to just sit there and embrace mediocrity isn't acceptable either. Butler's don't fall off trees. These guys have process and infrastructure in place to develop, improve and they also work hard to be the best of themselves.

It's clear fat and lazy guys like Asif just don't work hard enough to improve hence they get exposed easily in the middle.

 

[The lone Ranger]

There is no one in the world that I'd rather have opening for us than Babar and Rizwan. Babar was the best opener in the last World Cup and Rizwan was the best opener in the last Asia Cup.

Both played match losing knocks in the most important match!

Babar in the last T20WC

Decent inning vs India
70 vs Namibia
66 vs Scotland
Failed vs Newzealand
51(47) vs Afghanistan
39(34) vs Australia in the Semifinal - match losing knock, If fakhar had come in earlier or any other opener opened, he might have played a decent inning or at worst case, wouldn't have wasted more balls.

Warner

65(42) vs SL
89(56) vs Windies
49(30) vs Pakistan in Semi
53(38) vs Newzealand in final

Warner had a greater impact in important matches and was the better opener in the last T20WC

 

[daytrader]

Not everything is based on stats. And even if you want to go there, the OPENER in domestic cricket striking the highest is Sharjeel - so if we go by stats, what right do BaRiz have of opening ahead of him?

My argument still stands - we need to identify someone who we recognise that can hit out, and utilise them. Give them a job, some confidence and send them up the order. Babar and Riz can do their patch up job if required after a wicket has gone down. Isn't worth a try? What can possibly happen? Oooooh Pakistan lose an early wicket - what a disaster!

I don't understand why you tuk tuk merchants want Pakistan to stay in the dark ages?

Well that opener is a certified TTF. He's already had his chances. Going back to him is going back to the dark ages.

 

[Farabi]

Phil Salt has over 160 T20s under his belt and strikes at 150 even domestically. He wasn't just given a bat and told to go smash them, he proved he could and had performances to back that. We don't have any openers in domestics that strike at 150 consistently.

Yeah but we also don’t have true pitches like Eng in our domestics. Some of it is skill gap, but you can’t compare directly

 

[TheSultan]

Well that opener is a certified TTF. He's already had his chances. Going back to him is going back to the dark ages.

Did you read what I wrote? If you want to go there with the domestic stats then sharjeel is the obvious choice. You brought up stats so there was your response.

I would question if he really is a TTF

Now however, if you bothered to read the rest of my post I wasn’t necessarily advocating for Sharjeel to come in, but I was talking about having a strategy to change things up and get someone a bit braver at the top of the order.

So stop the excuses and this mediocre mentality and open your mind that a change might do the team good.

It doesn’t make you any less of a babar riz lover, just asking you to think a bit further.

 

[Cric1234]

As usual, not surprised that the usual critics have absolutely zero evidence to back up any of their claims. This is because they simply cannot because their position has no basis to begin with.

Here are the numbers of IT20 openers for the last two years:

View attachment 117391

No minnows and it's clear to anyone with even a below-average IQ that the best openers in the world are Rizwan, Buttler, Babar and Warner. Babar went through a lean patch this year, which is why his numbers suffered but he's Babar Azam and seems to be getting close to his best.

Rizwans best strike rate in series come against South Africa West Indies you can tell everyone about the all time great bowlers he’s faced in these series he struggles to impose himself regularly against better bowling and makes slow match losing 50s.

Babar is the same struggles against better bowling and doesn’t score quickly enough Pakistan won’t win anything with these two opening Babar should move himself down the order as quickly as possible it’s beneficial for his captaincy and T20 career.