The ENTIRE Pakistan top order is expendable!

[Junaids]

Usually in a Test match a team will have one or two veteran batsmen whom you accept could be on the verge of needing to be permanently retired.

But today Pakistan finds itself in the weird situation in which every single specialist batsman falls into that category. I’ve never seen such an unbalanced top order! And the best outcome would really be for as many as possible to fail on this dead Bay Oval wicket.

Shan Masood is 31 years old and hard work has allowed him to rise to the level of “mediocre”. But he still only averages 31.82, and if he’s not going to be the skipper, why pick him?

Abid Ali is 33 years old and hasn’t even scored 500 Test runs. He has an average bloated by home runs v Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, but he is unfit, can’t field and is blocking the development of the next generation.

Azhar Ali is even older, about to turn 36, and since Misbah and Younis retired three and a half years ago he averages 31.37 when he was supposed to become the key batsman. He has failed.

Haris Sohail is about to turn 32, but is a physical wreck, overweight and unfit. He has to be hidden in the slips even though he can’t catch. He has scored just 93 Test runs in the two years since his 30th birthday, at an average of 23.25. That’s not a misprint - a truly pathetic 93 Test runs in the last two years.

Fawad Alam is another 35 year old. He was robbed of his rightful Test career by Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq, but since his Test comeback he averages 10.00.

In many ways the best thing would be if they ALL could fail in New Zealand, to allow the new Chief Selector to discard all the dead wood.

 

[Rayyman]

Haris Sohail scored a fifty in his last match and is a very good catcher. No idea why he gets so much hate on this forum..

 

[Cric1234]

It’s a weak batting line up and the bowling isn’t great either there’s a reason for the 7th place ranking which could be 8th soon.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Haris Sohail scored a fifty in his last match and is a very good catcher. No idea why he gets so much hate on this forum..

yah dropped a catch in this match too

 

[Energy]

Its a weird and magical combination of 30+ and 21- players.

 

[Rayyman]

yah dropped a catch in this match too

Maybe the commentary you read was wrong because that ball did not reach him. He caught it on one tip..

 

[Junaids]

Haris Sohail scored a fifty in his last match and is a very good catcher. No idea why he gets so much hate on this forum..

If Haris Sohail carries on scoring an average of 46 Test runs PER YEAR like he has for the last two years, by 2030 he could go up from his current lifetime 819 Test runs to a tally of nearly 1500 lifetime Test runs!

 

[Rayyman]

If Haris Sohail carries on scoring an average of 46 Test runs PER YEAR like he has for the last two years, by 2030 he could go up from his current lifetime 819 Test runs to a tally of nearly 1500 lifetime Test runs!

That is true, it is better to play a youngster.

But you need 2-3 seniors batting. Cannot have all newbies.

In the next series I would play this team:
Imam (25), Shan (32), Imran (26), Babar* (26), Haris (32), Rizwan+ (29), Faheem (27), Zafar (26), Yasir (34), Hasan (27), Shaheen (21)
3 players over 30, average age: 27

 

[Junaids]

That is true, it is better to play a youngster.

But you need 2-3 seniors batting. Cannot have all newbies.

In the next series I would play this team:
Imam (25), Shan (32), Imran (26), Babar* (26), Haris (32), Rizwan+ (29), Faheem (27), Zafar (26), Yasir (34), Hasan (27), Shaheen (21)
3 players over 30, average age: 27

I don’t want geriatrics or youngsters.

I want a core of 8 players aged between 21 and 29.

That model works in almost every team sport. Pick players at their peak - not before or after it!

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Usually in a Test match a team will have one or two veteran batsmen whom you accept could be on the verge of needing to be permanently retired.

But today Pakistan finds itself in the weird situation in which every single specialist batsman falls into that category. I’ve never seen such an unbalanced top order! And the best outcome would really be for as many as possible to fail on this dead Bay Oval wicket.

Shan Masood is 31 years old and hard work has allowed him to rise to the level of “mediocre”. But he still only averages 31.82, and if he’s not going to be the skipper, why pick him?

Abid Ali is 33 years old and hasn’t even scored 500 Test runs. He has an average bloated by home runs v Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, but he is unfit, can’t field and is blocking the development of the next generation.

Azhar Ali is even older, about to turn 36, and since Misbah and Younis retired three and a half years ago he averages 31.37 when he was supposed to become the key batsman. He has failed.

Haris Sohail is about to turn 32, but is a physical wreck, overweight and unfit. He has to be hidden in the slips even though he can’t catch. He has scored just 93 Test runs in the two years since his 30th birthday, at an average of 23.25. That’s not a misprint - a truly pathetic 93 Test runs in the last two years.

Fawad Alam is another 35 year old. He was robbed of his rightful Test career by Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq, but since his Test comeback he averages 10.00.

In many ways the best thing would be if they ALL could fail in New Zealand, to allow the new Chief Selector to discard all the dead wood.

How about some solutions?
Which 5 specialist batsmen between the ages 21-29 you are gonna bring in for replacement? Who are the potential candidates?

And then there is a whole army of fans who are against the idea of injecting young blood too soon in the test side. These fans want players to get an extra grind (‘ragra’) in our third class domestic before they are even considered for the white ball, and then they must gain a lot of intl experience and even more domestic performances before they are considered for the Test team.

 

[AliMurtaza]

Looking for some suggestions on replacements. Pak will play six batsmen most of the time so which 5 other batsmen should play with Babar? Apart from Haider and Saud Shakeel, no one stands out to me. Saud also has consistency issues.

Imran Butt: seems a mediocre first class career with only one standout season in 2019

Imam Ul Haq: Serious question marks on test technique

Talat Hussain: Was having first major first class season this year

Usman Salahuddin has faded since being dropped. Abdullah clearly needs at least one more domestic season.

So apart from Saud Shakeel and Haider Ali, I don’t see anyone who can be selected for the test side.

 

[Greenstorm]

My top 5 vs SA will be,

1. Abid (Only Sami Aslam could have replaced him but he is gone).
2. Zeeshan Malik
3. Haider
4. Babar
5. Saud
6. Rizwan

They may not do any better than the current lot but investing in them now can pay off in future.
My bigger worry is our bowling in tests.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Looking for some suggestions on replacements. Pak will play six batsmen most of the time so which 5 other batsmen should play with Babar? Apart from Haider and Saud Shakeel, no one stands out to me. Saud also has consistency issues.

Imran Butt: seems a mediocre first class career with only one standout season in 2019

Imam Ul Haq: Serious question marks on test technique

Talat Hussain: Was having first major first class season this year

Usman Salahuddin has faded since being dropped. Abdullah clearly needs at least one more domestic season.

So apart from Saud Shakeel and Haider Ali, I don’t see anyone who can be selected for the test side.

Yes indeed . Once Misbah and Younis gone , usman Salahuddin and Haris Sohail was selected to fill the gap along with Saad Ali in the bench.

Usman thrown away, Saad Ali + Asghar also thrown away without proper chances.

For tests , u need more chances to come good. Umar Amin another good left hander was ignored forever after his first 4 tests at age of 20 which is also cruel.

Fawad alam was ignored when he was in fine form , now selected when he completely changed his batting stance like lagaanwale style.

Azhar Ali and Asad shafiq were given a long long run despite their poor performances is simply mind boggling and they still play like they are playing their first few series. Babar azam was carrying the batting unit and rightfully Asad shafiq is dropped for good and forever. Time to groom new players.


Imam ul Haq should be groomed for the no.3 spot asap or otherwise Pakistan will another hole to block in tests at no.3 which is far more important than plugging the hole of no.5 for shafiq which I feel was non-existent, as anyone will do good than Asad there. Imam ul Haq need consistent chances at no.3

 

[Shoaibbtt]

That is true, it is better to play a youngster.

But you need 2-3 seniors batting. Cannot have all newbies.

In the next series I would play this team:
Imam (25), Shan (32), Imran (26), Babar* (26), Haris (32), Rizwan+ (29), Faheem (27), Zafar (26), Yasir (34), Hasan (27), Shaheen (21)
3 players over 30, average age: 27

Explain why Imam gets a go again and what double century he scored? I must’ve missed that.

 

[Junaids]

How about some solutions?
Which 5 specialist batsmen between the ages 21-29 you are gonna bring in for replacement? Who are the potential candidates?
.

With a long-term selection plan you don’t need to find five youngsters - you replace the oldest batsman each year with someone a decade younger.

When Misbah replaced Inzamam as Chief Selector the Top Seven in the previous Test team was:

1. Shan Masood (29)
2. Imam-ul-Haq (23)
3. Azhar Ali (33 years 11 months)
4. Babar Azam (24)
5. Asad Shafiq (32)
6. Sarfraz Ahmed (31 years 9 months)
7. Shadab Khan (20)

There was no need to replace five geriatrics.

Mohammad Rizwan was 26 and was ready to replace Sarfraz Ahmed.

Saud Shakeel was almost 24 and could have replaced Azhar Ali.

A year later - now - it would be time to replace Asad Shafiq. I would probably go with Mohammad Nawaz.

The problem is that Misbah has added a 35 year old (Fawad Alam) and a 33 year old (Abid Ali) and now the entire Top Five is the wrong side of 30, and every single one is in decline.

A proper long-term selection plan ensures that the team doesn’t age together.

 

[GreenKhan]

I don’t want geriatrics or youngsters.

I want a core of 8 players aged between 21 and 29.

That model works in almost every team sport. Pick players at their peak - not before or after it!

No team has that model. Nothing to suggest that a bowler or batsman would have lost their power’s after the age of 29 and therefore passed there “peak”.
The current New Zealand team has all there core players not less than 27-28 and 3-4 are over 30 and I can’t see them being discarded anytime soon . Heck even the Australia team are similar .

Your logic defies me. Please provide me with any team who has that Model and is even partially successful . Nobody really cares what “you want”.

 

[Junaids]

No team has that model. Nothing to suggest that a bowler or batsman would have lost their power’s after the age of 29 and therefore passed there “peak”.
The current New Zealand team has all there core players not less than 27-28 and 3-4 are over 30 and I can’t see them being discarded anytime soon . Heck even the Australia team are similar .

Your logic defies me. Please provide me with any team who has that Model and is even partially successful . Nobody really cares what “you want”.

New Zealand is a country of 4 million people. The talent pool is tiny.

Pakistan now has it’s top five batsmen all aged over 30.

But only two of them have even scored 1,000 Test runs.

We are not talking of great talents like the Waughs or Kallis or Williamson.

We are looking at a team where Misbah has discarded younger batsmen in favour of having three MORE elderly batsmen (Abid, Haris and Fawad) who BETWEEN THEM have less than 2,000 Test runs.

 

[Junaids]

No team has that model. Nothing to suggest that a bowler or batsman would have lost their power’s after the age of 29 and therefore passed there “peak”.
The current New Zealand team has all there core players not less than 27-28 and 3-4 are over 30 and I can’t see them being discarded anytime soon . Heck even the Australia team are similar .

Your logic defies me. Please provide me with any team who has that Model and is even partially successful . Nobody really cares what “you want”.

Also, Covid made the England tour ten weeks long and the NZ tour two months long.

It was the perfect time to immerse Rohail Nazir in the red ball game. And he outperformed all the geriatrics in the Shaheens game (smaller century than Fawad, but he reached 20 in the other innings too, unlike Fawad).

Covid gave Misbah the opportunity to move to a new generation. And he did - he moved to an OLDER generation.

Bay Oval is a dead wicket. Probably some of the old men will score runs.

Runs that Rohail Nazir or Saud Shakeel could have used to build a batting line-up for the next decade.

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

Saud is must against sa, abdullah, haider and omair first need to play 2 more fc seasons before debut

 

[Hasan123]

Don't you ever get bored of saying this?

 

[sshakir411]

Don't you ever get bored of saying this?

He’s right. We’ve had this issue for longer than a decade. How would you recommend to fix this?

 

[Hasan123]

He’s right. We’ve had this issue for longer than a decade. How would you recommend to fix this?

Yes he does have a point. I won't dispute that. But Pakistan are not going to ditch all these players in 1 go and select 5/6 youngsters.

I would be happy with something like this

Imam
Abid/Shan
Haris
Babar
Saud

 

[GreenKhan]

New Zealand is a country of 4 million people. The talent pool is tiny.

Pakistan now has it’s top five batsmen all aged over 30.

But only two of them have even scored 1,000 Test runs.

We are not talking of great talents like the Waughs or Kallis or Williamson.

We are looking at a team where Misbah has discarded younger batsmen in favour of having three MORE elderly batsmen (Abid, Haris and Fawad) who BETWEEN THEM have less than 2,000 Test runs.

I never just said New Zealand. I said “ no team” . Out of the ten playing test nations please enlighten me which country follows this magical formula of yours presently .

 

[Extra_Cover]

Its a complete failure of PCB that we are in this situation at the end of 2020. I blame PCB because they are the ones that hired Misbah and co.

Since hiring Misbah, PCB arranged couple of test matches in Pakistan before the summer tours of England and Pakistan. Due to Misbah, that series led to inclusion of Abid Ali and solidifying positions of Shan, Azhar and Asad. These home series were perfect smoke screen for Misbah to justify his away tours selections. A year on from that series we are still stuck with Abid, Shan and Azhar while Asad is still on standby.

My point in here is that Pakistan would have won the series against SL and Ban anyways at home so this was the perfect opportunity to give Imam, Usman Salahuddin and other similar players a go at test cricket and revel in victories on home soil. I have a feeling Mickey would have given youngsters a go in here and effectively shut the door on oldies. But Misbah didn't finish there, he went on to bring back Fawad and Haris into test lineups for away tours.

We are going to start 2021 and do not have any decent test batsmen in our lineup yet all our batsmen are over 30. If there was a definition of "mess" in cricket its this think tank of Misbah and co.

The only bright sparks to put a smile on the face of fans are Babar, Rizwan and Shaheen. PCB should take a bold decision and fix their think tank as clearly Misbah and co. are not working (neither in performances and neither in attitude). There was nothing wrong with Mickey and his team but I guess that boat has sailed now. PCB should keep an eye out for one of its PSL coaches to take the reins as early as April, this is when IPL will be going on so there will not be much cricketing activity and new coach can settle into his new role during this time.

The selectors should keep an eye out for performances in this year's QEA. Stats are not always the right basis for selection, for example we selected Hussain Talat on basis of his 250odd in QEA earlier this year, but it doesn't take rocket science to understand he is not good enough for international test cricket hence the selection of him not only adds nothing to this current team but also breaks his personal confidence and ability to learn from domestics.

In my opinion, the list of players from below should be worked with. Although their stats would not be earth shattering but any person with mild cricketing knowledge knows they have their basis covered.

1. Imam ul Haq
2. Shan Masood
3. Kamran Ghulam / Saud Shakeel /
4. Babar Azam
5. Usman Salahuddin
6. Mohammad Rizwan
7. Faheem Ashraf / Amad Butt / Mohammad Nawaz
8. Zafar Gohar / Sajid Ali / Yasir Shah
9. Shaheen Shah
10. Hasan Ali / Mohammad Abbas
11. Naseem Shah

Its time we step away from the players of previous era. If after playing for a decade of being involved in cricket for a decade you still can't compete in international circuit then its time to step away with head held high and make way for someone else to compete.

 

[Sunny_majoka]

This is pcbs issue, they brought back fawad in his 30s however never gave a chance to usman saad or saud.. and i am sure they will also get a chance once they cross 30

 

[Titan24]

Selections and management of players unfortunately in recent times have been in shambles. There is no way some of the selections in the squads and in playing XI we have see in last year can be justified. Have talked about them multiple times. I am pretty sure even Misbah himself will struggle to justify most of them if asked.

 

[MRSN]

Problem is this is the best Pakistan can put. The upcoming batting talent is just not good enough.

 

[Markhor]

Imam never merited Test selection in the first place. There was only one FC season where Imam averaged above 40 and that was the season that got him called up for Pakistan. Otherwise he averaged 31.58 across five FC campaigns.

Abid didn't have age on his side but averaged above 40 in six FC seasons before debuting. So for once Misbah made the right call.

Imam had ample opportunities in Tests and didn't take them. He was struggling even on UAE surfaces against the short ball and outside offstump ! Meanwhile Abid took his opportunity in those home Tests albeit vs weak opposition. He deserves till the end of the SAF series before making judgement.

The only opener in this season's QEA Trophy averaging above 40 is Sharjeel Khan. The likes of Ali Zaryab and Omair Yousuf aren't even close, so let's not pretend we've Sunil Gavaskar and Graeme Smith sitting on the bench.

 

[ShoaibM]

Yeah disappointed in Haris Sohail. Issue is cultural and has been around for a very long time.

 

[coy0607]

Problem is this is the best Pakistan can put. The upcoming batting talent is just not good enough.

The age old argument. We don't think we have any one good enough coming up, so lets keeps playing arguably the worst batting line up in Test cricket who we know is definitely not good enough.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

Apart from Babar Pak does not have any other < 30 test batters so this is the best they can offer as of now. Just for the sake of youth they can't pitch in someone who is not cut out for test cricket!

 

[MMHS]

Another joy ride for the passionate fans on the high horse of talunt....

I did watch last 20 overs yesterday - and this is my summery, people are allowed to disagree.

“The 35+ brigade of Shan, Abid & Abbas left the day 30/1 after 20 overs of that quality new ball attack, under that sky, on that track, after two days of toiling in field ... if it were some 25 bracket talunt brigade, PAK would have ended the day 40/4.....”

Back to the joy ride - enjoy.

 

[Kroll]

Misbah isn't discarding his geriatric model (with a couple of school kids thrown in) anytime soon. He wants to build a team in his own image.

 

[Extra_Cover]

Imam never merited Test selection in the first place. There was only one FC season where Imam averaged above 40 and that was the season that got him called up for Pakistan. Otherwise he averaged 31.58 across five FC campaigns.

Abid didn't have age on his side but averaged above 40 in six FC seasons before debuting. So for once Misbah made the right call.

Imam had ample opportunities in Tests and didn't take them. He was struggling even on UAE surfaces against the short ball and outside offstump ! Meanwhile Abid took his opportunity in those home Tests albeit vs weak opposition. He deserves till the end of the SAF series before making judgement.

The only opener in this season's QEA Trophy averaging above 40 is Sharjeel Khan. The likes of Ali Zaryab and Omair Yousuf aren't even close, so let's not pretend we've Sunil Gavaskar and Graeme Smith sitting on the bench.

There are certain players where stats don't show the complete picture. Imam is the only player after Babar that knows the art of scoring 100s in international circuit. This is a positive trait in any successful batsman. Imam can be selfish, lacks today's agile cricket requirements but he is so much better than Abid Ali and is definitely one of the few batsman in Pakistan circuit who is hungry for runs and scores hundreds.

Beggars can't be choosers and Imam is undoubtedly an already established performer in international circuit which I would take in a heartbeat over domestic bashers.

 

[GreenKhan]

I am not sure why people begrudge the selection of Abid Ali. He earnt it through consistent performances in our domestic setup . He had a blazing start to his test career and it’s not his fault the opposition who he debuted against were relatively mediocre.

His England tour was ok .

Let’s see how performs on this tour . He has just turned 33 and has 3-4 years in him as long as he is performing. He has earnt the right to be given a fair run just like any other player .
Age should not come into it .

 

[Last Monetarist]

Shows that people are just paying lip service to the idea of youth if Imam ul Haq is the best alternative to Abid Ali. Abid made the team on merit and deserves till the end of the South African series before being judged/dropped. The cupboard is bare, stop digging around for something that doesn't exist.

 

[Kroll]

I am not sure why people begrudge the selection of Abid Ali. He earnt it through consistent performances in our domestic setup . He had a blazing start to his test career and it’s not his fault the opposition who he debuted against were relatively mediocre.

His England tour was ok .

Let’s see how performs on this tour . He has just turned 33 and has 3-4 years in him as long as he is performing. He has earnt the right to be given a fair run just like any other player .
Age should not come into it .

Okay, so why is that its always 33/34 and 35 year olds that have "earned" their place?

Abid had a good start to white ball cricket and that's where he should remain. Why can't players that are entering or at their physical peak be picked?

 

[JibranAnsari]

this may be end of career for haris sohail if he fails . He has been disappointing off late.

 

[daytrader]

Another rant of age discrimination by op. All his threads should be merged into one

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

My top 5 vs SA will be,

1. Abid (Only Sami Aslam could have replaced him but he is gone).
2. Zeeshan Malik
3. Haider
4. Babar
5. Saud
6. Rizwan

They may not do any better than the current lot but investing in them now can pay off in future.
My bigger worry is our bowling in tests.

When I see this batting line-up the first thing that comes to my mind is 20-6

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Another rant of age discrimination by op. All his threads should be merged into one

Seriously. Umpteenth time I've heard this. When Abid and Fawad were smashing runs in domestic people here were asking why they aren't in the team. Now that they are in the team their age is an issue. Some people will never be happy.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Had Pakistan packed the side with YoungPlayers™ we would be 40-6 right now. Be happy we're 30-1 and be grateful that Abid Ali survived those testing 20 overs against one of the best fast-bowling attacks in the world, on their home turf in overcast conditions, instead of needlessly criticizing everything.

Whether you like it not this is the best batting line-up Pakistan could have fielded barring Babar.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Also LOL at you mentioning Fawad Alam's average since his comeback. He has LITERALLY played two test matches. And incase you don't know he smashed 139 in the game against New Zealand A a week ago. A game that the Shaheens went on to win.

 

[Greenstorm]

When I see this batting line-up the first thing that comes to my mind is 20-6

Zeeshan, Haider, Saud replacing Shan, Azhar, Fawad from current lineup.

I don't see these replacements doing any worse. Additionally, average age of the current lineup will come down.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Had Pakistan packed the side with YoungPlayers™ we would be 40-6 right now. Be happy we're 30-1 and be grateful that Abid Ali survived those testing 20 overs against one of the best fast-bowling attacks in the world, on their home turf in overcast conditions, instead of needlessly criticizing everything.

Whether you like it not this is the best batting line-up Pakistan could have fielded barring Babar.

I think Saud Shakeel can fit into the batting order but other than him, yeah no good options immediately.

It's the bowling attack that I'd like changes in mainly - Naseem and Yasir need replacing.

 

[Rayyman]

Explain why Imam gets a go again and what double century he scored? I must’ve missed that.

He has been in the squad for so long now. Might as well give him a chance.

 

[UzmanBeast]

Usually in a Test match a team will have one or two veteran batsmen whom you accept could be on the verge of needing to be permanently retired.

But today Pakistan finds itself in the weird situation in which every single specialist batsman falls into that category. I’ve never seen such an unbalanced top order! And the best outcome would really be for as many as possible to fail on this dead Bay Oval wicket.

Shan Masood is 31 years old and hard work has allowed him to rise to the level of “mediocre”. But he still only averages 31.82, and if he’s not going to be the skipper, why pick him?

Abid Ali is 33 years old and hasn’t even scored 500 Test runs. He has an average bloated by home runs v Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, but he is unfit, can’t field and is blocking the development of the next generation.

Azhar Ali is even older, about to turn 36, and since Misbah and Younis retired three and a half years ago he averages 31.37 when he was supposed to become the key batsman. He has failed.

Haris Sohail is about to turn 32, but is a physical wreck, overweight and unfit. He has to be hidden in the slips even though he can’t catch. He has scored just 93 Test runs in the two years since his 30th birthday, at an average of 23.25. That’s not a misprint - a truly pathetic 93 Test runs in the last two years.

Fawad Alam is another 35 year old. He was robbed of his rightful Test career by Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq, but since his Test comeback he averages 10.00.

In many ways the best thing would be if they ALL could fail in New Zealand, to allow the new Chief Selector to discard all the dead wood.

One cannot just remove the entire batting lineup. On the basis of form, we can make a few exceptions.

Shan Masood has been in good form this year and the past year as well, so I think he merits a spot in the opening position.

Abid Ali has this tour to prove his worth, otherwise, I'd try out someone else to open, though I have a potential plan which can be put in place to bring some players into the team.

Azhar Ali is a mixed bag, because when he comes good, he's almost unstoppable.

Fawad hasn't had enough games after his comeback to show whether or not he can handle the position, so this tour should help us understand his capability.

Haris Sohail is a disappointment because if he maintained fitness, he could have easily been a batsman averaging 45+.

Rizwan has shown his worth and is capable in terms of batting with the tail and also rotating strike.

After this tour, we should look to make the following changes:

If Abid Ali performs, keep him.

One of Haris/Fawad will not perform, so drop them for Saud Shakeel or another meriting batsman.

Zafar Gohar should break into the team in the second game of the NZ tour or the SA series.

Hasan Ali should be brought in for Naseem, who has been a liability for this team overseas.

Hence, we have a better looking team:

Shan Masood
Abid Ali/Opening Batsman (ie. Imran Butt)
Azhar Ali
Babar Azam
Saud Shakeel/Batsman
Fawad Alam/Haris Sohail
Mohammad Rizwan
Zafar Gohar
Hasan Ali
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Mohammad Abbas

We have good batting with this lineup and also decent bowling.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Zeeshan, Haider, Saud replacing Shan, Azhar, Fawad from current lineup.

I don't see these replacements doing any worse. Additionally, average age of the current lineup will come down.

What a strange thing to say. What will Pakistan get if they get the average age down? Extra points?

And if you actually think that a few youngsters with a handful of FC matches can go to New Zealand and survive 10 balls against Boult, Southee, Wagner then you are not just mistaken but deluded.

These are not worse replacements, they are THE worst replacements of a batting line-up that is already the best batting line-up Pakistan can put out.

 

[Fahdi]

Imam never merited Test selection in the first place. There was only one FC season where Imam averaged above 40 and that was the season that got him called up for Pakistan. Otherwise he averaged 31.58 across five FC campaigns.

Abid didn't have age on his side but averaged above 40 in six FC seasons before debuting. So for once Misbah made the right call.

Imam had ample opportunities in Tests and didn't take them. He was struggling even on UAE surfaces against the short ball and outside offstump ! Meanwhile Abid took his opportunity in those home Tests albeit vs weak opposition. He deserves till the end of the SAF series before making judgement.

The only opener in this season's QEA Trophy averaging above 40 is Sharjeel Khan. The likes of Ali Zaryab and Omair Yousuf aren't even close, so let's not pretend we've Sunil Gavaskar and Graeme Smith sitting on the bench.

Yes, I also wanted to ask what has Imam done that everyone suddenly wants him in the test side? The guy doesn't have an impressive FC record and his technique has been badly exposed on multiple occasions. It seems the thinking of Pakistani fans and selectors is, "This guy scores slow 100s in ODIS" == "Perfect Test player".

 

[Greenstorm]

What a strange thing to say. What will Pakistan get if they get the average age down? Extra points?

And if you actually think that a few youngsters with a handful of FC matches can go to New Zealand and survive 10 balls against Boult, Southee, Wagner then you are not just mistaken but deluded.

These are not worse replacements, they are THE worst replacements of a batting line-up that is already the best batting line-up Pakistan can put out.

All three of them have performed in recent domestic seasons. They may be 'worst' replacement for you but I don't see them doing any worse than few 35+ seniors who for all their experience score at most in one innings per tour.

We have to develop a lineup for the next test championship. Do you think Azhar and Fawad will be around in 2023 ?

 

[Rana]

Yes, I also wanted to ask what has Imam done that everyone suddenly wants him in the test side? The guy doesn't have an impressive FC record and his technique has been badly exposed on multiple occasions. It seems the thinking of Pakistani fans and selectors is, "This guy scores slow 100s in ODIS" == "Perfect Test player".

He did a masterclass with Brendon McCullum

 

[hitthestump]

Had Pakistan packed the side with YoungPlayers™ we would be 40-6 right now. Be happy we're 30-1 and be grateful that Abid Ali survived those testing 20 overs against one of the best fast-bowling attacks in the world, on their home turf in overcast conditions, instead of needlessly criticizing everything.

Whether you like it not this is the best batting line-up Pakistan could have fielded barring Babar.

True, but we should not be in a situation where the only choice is young or old.

The failings have been in the development of test match batsman. Misbah's career went on far too long, Shafiq should have been discarded years earlier.

By now Saud Shakeel and Saad Ali should have been test match ready but neither has even made a debut yet because we're still persisting with geriatrics who aren't even that good.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

All three of them have performed in recent domestic seasons. They may be 'worst' replacement for you but I don't see them doing any worse than few 35+ seniors who for all their experience score at most in one innings per tour.

We have to develop a lineup for the next test championship. Do you think Azhar and Fawad will be around in 2023 ?

Newsflash: scoring runs in domestic is not the same as scoring runs in testing foreign conditions against the second ranked test team in the world. These are players who have no experience and are still trying to find themselves in limited-overs and FC cricket.

If they were in New Zealand right now I can assure you Boult, Southee and Wagner would have systematically sliced their techniques open and that experience would have shattered their confidence for time to come. There's a reason why test cricket is the toughest and most purest form of the game. If it was so easy, every youngster with a handful of FC matches to his name would walk in and become a star overnight. But that is not really the case.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

True, but we should not be in a situation where the only choice is young or old.

The failings have been in the development of test match batsman. Misbah's career went on far too long, Shafiq should have been discarded years earlier.

By now Saud Shakeel and Saad Ali should have been test match ready but neither has even made a debut yet because we're still persisting with geriatrics who aren't even that good.

The key to that is organizing more A tours. And making decisions based on that. Ideally, the top performers from domestic should be selected for the A team. Shadow tours like the one going on at present are not really the same as the test regulars end up playing for the A team to tune up for the upcoming test series. Having a regularly playing A team is the best way to develop bench strength imo.

Misbah's career did not go on far too long. He had one bad year in 2016 and quickly realized his time was near. And despite that he was able to end his career on a high with a series winning performance with the bat in West Indies. Shafiq is a different story. But before Misbah and Younis left he too was a consistent performer. It was only after they left that he exposed himself as a paragon of mediocrity.

 

[AliMurtaza]

The moment I see people suggesting Zeeshan Malik as a potential test opener, I lose my interested in the rest of the opinion by the poster. I mean, average of 30 with one first class hundred but sure, he should be opening for Pakistan in tests.

 

[Junaids]

The team can’t qualify for the current World Test Championship Final, but instead of giving the next generation some experience, Misbah has replaced the batsmen Inzamam left him with Grandad’s Army.

I’m glad Abid failed.

I’m glad Azhar failed.

I’m glad Haris failed.

I’m glad Abbas has a bowling strike rate of 200.

Pakistan need the dead wood to be exposed so that Mohammad Wasim can end their careers and replace the old guard with a new generation.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

The team can’t qualify for the current World Test Championship Final, but instead of giving the next generation some experience, Misbah has replaced the batsmen Inzamam left him with Grandad’s Army.

I’m glad Abid failed.

I’m glad Azhar failed.

I’m glad Haris failed.

I’m glad Abbas has a bowling strike rate of 200.

Pakistan need the dead wood to be exposed so that Mohammad Wasim can end their careers and replace the old guard with a new generation.

It’s all good chucking away the dead wood until you realise the younger lot ain’t exactly international level.

Only one young batsman I can think of is Saud Shakeel.

 

[coy0607]

Today's effort is beyond pathetic, its just embarrassing. Least number of run-scoring shots since they started keeping track in 2006

This is what you should expect when your top 3 are only playing because of personal connections, and your head coach knows nothing about coaching.

 

[Cric_lover4487]

It’s all good chucking away the dead wood until you realise the younger lot ain’t exactly international level.

Only one young batsman I can think of is Saud Shakeel.

I don't care about win or losing. We got bowled out for 36 last test match. My disappointment with Pak batting is absolutely no intent of scoring runs. Abid ali scored 4 runs in 55 balls. He came with mindset of playing all day and scoring 50. No momentum whatsover in Pak batting. In these conditions with ball swinging, there is only a matter of time before you get out. Better atleast try to score runs.

 

[D/DAhmed]

Had Pakistan packed the side with YoungPlayers™ we would be 40-6 right now. Be happy we're 30-1 and be grateful that Abid Ali survived those testing 20 overs against one of the best fast-bowling attacks in the world, on their home turf in overcast conditions, instead of needlessly criticizing everything.

Whether you like it not this is the best batting line-up Pakistan could have fielded barring Babar.

Well instead of 40-6 we're 62-5 right now, so not really much better. One of the reasons I even bother to watch Pakistan's bowling despite us getting smacked around for 400+ almost every game is that at least Naseem and Shaheen have the time to hone whatever talent they have and display their potential.

It's absolutely disgusting and torturous to see Abid Ali and Shan Masood opening the batting for Pakistan. Neither of them average anywhere close to even 40 in first class, and Shan Masood has the lowest average of a first-choice opener currently playing international cricket for any of the top sides. Even worse is the fact that both of these pathetic, shameless individuals have fans amongst the Pakistani contingent who view them as useful because they 'blunt the new ball'. Mohammad Abbas has shown that he can literally do the same role, so what exactly is the requirement of these disgraceful tailenders?

For now the only option we have is to throw Umar Amin, Sharjeel Khan and Imran Butt alongside Imam-ul-Haq as our potential openers. Amin and Sharjeel are the only openers that have just about averaged 40+ across the full first class season. I have my misgivings about Imran Butt, but at least he performed well in the last season, so deserves an opportunity. Imam gets 10 matches to show he sustain a higher average than Shan Masood, if he fails to do so, then we have no choice but to retain Shan as a 4th choice opener. Give this group 1.5-2 years, and in the meantime identify a list of potential young openers who should play every first class game, be brought into the NHPC and sent around the world to get accustomed to different conditions. In my opinion, the list should comprise of the following:

Potential Test Openers: Haider Ali, Omair Bin Yousuf, Abdul Faseeh, Abdullah Shafique

Potential LOI Openers: Haider Ali, Nasir Nawaz, Abdullah Shafique (ODI only), Zeeshan Malik, Ali Imran (T20 only).

It's disappointing that we have such a lack of talent in the opening department, but I guess that has been the case throughout our history aside from a few outliers. Hopefully this new first class structure gives us more to work with.

 

[Junaids]

Fawad Alam’s average since his comeback falls below 10.00!

Nice work Misbah, your call-up of new Over-30’s is really paying off.

For the opposition.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

Even Bangladesh has a better batting unit in tests.

Never thought I would see this day. Things are really bad at the moment.

 

[Rana]

This thread is winning tbh

This is easily the worst Pakistani batting line up since 2009 when Imran Farhat, Salman Butt and Faisal Iqbal were our top 3

 

[Junaids]

Fawad Alam’s average since his comeback falls below 10.00!

Nice work Misbah, your call-up of new Over-30’s is really paying off.

For the opposition.

Fawad Alam was robbed by Misbah of his Test career when he was good enough, from 2010-2017. Misbah literally took his place.

And now that he is a shadow of his former self, Misbah blocks Saud Shakeel by picking him!

 

[Junaids]

Well [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] , here are the final numbers:

Pakistan's 5 specialist batsmen aged over 30: 52 runs for 5 dismissals
Faheem Ashraf aged 26: 68 not out
Mohammad Rizwan aged 28: 71, run out.

Faheem has scored 68 not out.

The seven players aged over 30 - including all 5 specialist batsmen - have a total of 61 runs for 7 out.

 

[MMHS]

Well [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] , here are the final numbers:

Pakistan's 5 specialist batsmen aged over 30: 52 runs for 5 dismissals
Faheem Ashraf aged 26: 68 not out
Mohammad Rizwan aged 28: 71, run out.

Faheem has scored 68 not out.

The seven players aged over 30 - including all 5 specialist batsmen - have a total of 61 runs for 7 out.

Doesn't matter over one Test as I told you last time - I can pluck out the Southampton Test scorecard as well. The point is, there are not enough back-up against youngsters in batting. It's not about age, rather your capability.

I can argue also that the oldie bunch batted out the tougher period and set the platform, but that'll take credit out of Rizwan & Faheem. They have played fantastically - there is absolutely nothing to do with their age - in a year time Rizwan will be 30, by your logic he'll be dispensable then

 

[Junaids]

The point is, there are not enough back-up against youngsters in batting. It's not about age, rather your capability.

Misbah has discarded the younger back-up batting.

He discarded Sami Aslam (25) in favour of Abid Ali (33).

He ignored Saud Shakeel (25) in favour of Fawad Alam (35) who rewarded him with an average of 9.67 in three Tests.

He discarded Usman Salahuddin who is now 30 and has probably missed his chance.

Now is the time to be picking the likes of these players or Mohammad Nawaz while they are at their peak - not these geriatrics in decline.

Azhar Ali and Faheem Ashraf have played 5 Tests together in the last 2 years and 7 months.

Azhar Ali has 93 runs for 9 dismissals.

Faheem Ashraf has 224 runs for 6 dismissals.

I’m embarrassed and I’m not even Pakistani. It’s a complete joke.

 

[MMHS]

Misbah has discarded the younger back-up batting.

He discarded Sami Aslam (25) in favour of Abid Ali (33).

He ignored Saud Shakeel (25) in favour of Fawad Alam (35) who rewarded him with an average of 9.67 in three Tests.

He discarded Usman Salahuddin who is now 30 and has probably missed his chance.

Now is the time to be picking the likes of these players or Mohammad Nawaz while they are at their peak - not these geriatrics in decline.

Azhar Ali and Faheem Ashraf have played 5 Tests together in the last 2 years and 7 months.

Azhar Ali has 93 runs for 9 dismissals.

Faheem Ashraf has 224 runs for 6 dismissals.

I’m embarrassed and I’m not even Pakistani. It’s a complete joke.

Abid has earned his spot while Sami lost his - absolutely no complaints there.

Saud Shakeel is a genuine case, but it has very little fault of Misbah - Imam was preferred over Saud by Imam's uncle when Saud had much, much superior stats. When Misbah became CS, Saud's numbers dropped, still he should have been among 29/35 for sure.

Azhar was Captain and they bat in different position - you should indeed be embarrassed for your lack of understanding in comparing stats of No. 3 & no. 8. It's not Azhar's fault that in the Tests that he scored hundreds, Fahim wasn't picked.

A bigger joke was your prediction of Mo Nawaz maintaining a batting average of 38 & bowling average of 35, better leave that.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Azhar was Captain and they bat in different position - you should indeed be embarrassed for your lack of understanding in comparing stats of No. 3 & no. 8.

He has a valid opinion fundamentally, but is so prone to exaggeration with the ensuing wide leaps of logic, that the relevant point is forgotten.

 

[angrypathan]

That middle order should look better with Babar Azam and Saud Shakeel in there. Potentially Kamran Ghulam too if Wasim decides to select him based on the monster season he's having

 

[UsmanhailsAfridi]

Doesn't matter over one Test as I told you last time - I can pluck out the Southampton Test scorecard as well. The point is, there are not enough back-up against youngsters in batting. It's not about age, rather your capability.

I can argue also that the oldie bunch batted out the tougher period and set the platform, but that'll take credit out of Rizwan & Faheem. They have played fantastically - there is absolutely nothing to do with their age - in a year time Rizwan will be 30, by your logic he'll be dispensable then

You do understand that the argument is not about age but rather age with potential + performance. You can’t bring in 35 year olds in the team if you have the future in mind. It’s absurd. The ship has sailed on these players.

And this argument where is talent is nonsense. You have to give players a chance before you write them off. I remember no talent and then Babar came, no talent and Sharjeel showed up, Haris showed up, no keeper but Sarfraz and then Rizwan showed up

 

[Junaids]

You do understand that the argument is not about age but rather age with potential + performance. You can’t bring in 35 year olds in the team if you have the future in mind. It’s absurd. The ship has sailed on these players.

It's even worse than that.

Misbah is backing OLD AGE + ZERO PERFORMANCE ahead of POTENTIAL + FUTURE INVESTMENT.

These losers even lost in England - where Sami Aslam and Shadab Khan and Faheem Ashraf did not in 2016 and 2018.

What's the point of playing old men and losing? I'd be fine with losing if the likes of Saud Shakeel, Rohail Nazir and Amad Butt et al were getting a chance to show whether they have a future at this level.

The "seniors" just produced the same non-performance that they produced for the Shaheens. Whereas Amad Butt took 6-60 in the unofficial Test and Rohail Nazir scored a century, only to be discarded.

It's time to stop this incompetent buffoon from turning the national team into a Nursing Home for Failing Seniors. We warned that this would happen, and it has.

In one year he has got rid of all the players in their peak years apart from Babar Azam, and he has replaced them with geriatrics and raw kids.

And whereas Mickey Arthur and Inzamam won 4 Tests out of 15 outside Asia, Misbah is headed for 0 wins and 4 losses after 6 Tests outside Asia, with the other two matches both rain-ruined.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Well instead of 40-6 we're 62-5 right now, so not really much better. One of the reasons I even bother to watch Pakistan's bowling despite us getting smacked around for 400+ almost every game is that at least Naseem and Shaheen have the time to hone whatever talent they have and display their potential.

It's absolutely disgusting and torturous to see Abid Ali and Shan Masood opening the batting for Pakistan. Neither of them average anywhere close to even 40 in first class, and Shan Masood has the lowest average of a first-choice opener currently playing international cricket for any of the top sides. Even worse is the fact that both of these pathetic, shameless individuals have fans amongst the Pakistani contingent who view them as useful because they 'blunt the new ball'. Mohammad Abbas has shown that he can literally do the same role, so what exactly is the requirement of these disgraceful tailenders?

For now the only option we have is to throw Umar Amin, Sharjeel Khan and Imran Butt alongside Imam-ul-Haq as our potential openers. Amin and Sharjeel are the only openers that have just about averaged 40+ across the full first class season. I have my misgivings about Imran Butt, but at least he performed well in the last season, so deserves an opportunity. Imam gets 10 matches to show he sustain a higher average than Shan Masood, if he fails to do so, then we have no choice but to retain Shan as a 4th choice opener. Give this group 1.5-2 years, and in the meantime identify a list of potential young openers who should play every first class game, be brought into the NHPC and sent around the world to get accustomed to different conditions. In my opinion, the list should comprise of the following:

Potential Test Openers: Haider Ali, Omair Bin Yousuf, Abdul Faseeh, Abdullah Shafique

Potential LOI Openers: Haider Ali, Nasir Nawaz, Abdullah Shafique (ODI only), Zeeshan Malik, Ali Imran (T20 only).

It's disappointing that we have such a lack of talent in the opening department, but I guess that has been the case throughout our history aside from a few outliers. Hopefully this new first class structure gives us more to work with.

I don't think I can even comprehend how wrong you are. Most off all though on the count that these players could somehow have put Pakistan in a better position.

I prefer to reserve my judgment on players till the end of the series. Instead of having an opinion every 20 overs.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Of all the outrageous things I have heard on this thread the criticism levelled at Fawad has got to take the cake.

The guy literally just got back into the team after putting in after toiling in doemstic more than I can think of in recent memory. New Zealand is one of the toughest places to bat these days. Kohli averaged 3 in 2 tests at the start of the year there. Atleast give him a chance to do something instead of calculating his average in 5 innings.

 

[smkk]

You do understand that the argument is not about age but rather age with potential + performance. You can’t bring in 35 year olds in the team if you have the future in mind. It’s absurd. The ship has sailed on these players.

Exactly. Why is no one understanding this simple thing. If all the aged cricketer were performing on regular basis, then no one should had anything to say. But not only this players not performing to the at all, but they are blocking the initialization and development of the future generations.

One gentleman above said that with young players, Pakistan would had been 40-6. How is that worse than having 65-5 with older player with no potential for growth in future. Let's give a chance to young players to let them sink in, after 2-3 years if they do not perform then move on to new set of players instead of repeating the same cycle with older players with with absolutely no potential + performance.

It's absolutely disgusting and torturous to see Abid Ali and Shan Masood opening the batting for Pakistan. Neither of them average anywhere close to even 40 in first class, and Shan Masood has the lowest average of a first-choice opener currently playing international cricket for any of the top sides. Even worse is the fact that both of these pathetic, shameless individuals have fans amongst the Pakistani contingent who view them as useful because they 'blunt the new ball'.

Not cool bro, there is no need to be personal. It is not their fault, that they were selected and call upon to represent their country. All people who represent their countries in international arena, whether in sports, cultural, or in battlefields need to be respected.

 

[smkk]

Of all the outrageous things I have heard on this thread the criticism levelled at Fawad has got to take the cake.

The guy literally just got back into the team after putting in after toiling in doemstic more than I can think of in recent memory. New Zealand is one of the toughest places to bat these days. Kohli averaged 3 in 2 tests at the start of the year there. Atleast give him a chance to do something instead of calculating his average in 5 innings.

The problem is not that, Fawad is not scoring, it just that at this age neither he has the potential for growth nor time for future investment. You do not make a comeback at 35+. Instead, a new player should have been given a chance to settle in and give some experience to improve in the future. He was hard done in his peak no doubt, but for that Misbah should be responsible. Pakistan's younger players should not be punished for that and miss out on their growth period for that.

 

[Slim]

Of all the outrageous things I have heard on this thread the criticism levelled at Fawad has got to take the cake.

The guy literally just got back into the team after putting in after toiling in doemstic more than I can think of in recent memory. New Zealand is one of the toughest places to bat these days. Kohli averaged 3 in 2 tests at the start of the year there. Atleast give him a chance to do something instead of calculating his average in 5 innings.

Fawad Alam is done, dont see any reason for him to play. Hes old now, and not international quality. Same goes for Azhar Ali.

 

[Majid Khan]

Yes I like the use of the word ‘expendable’ - I miss 80s and 90s looking at the declining standard of Pakistani batsmen almost like Hollywood action movies from the same era - we used to have Rambo (Rameez), Terminator 1 (Saeed Anwar) , Terminator 2 (Ijaz Ahmad), Die Hard 1 (Javed Miandad), Die Hard 2 (Inzamam ul Haq) , Die Hard 3 (Yusuf), Demolition Man (Shahid Afridi), and then it all changed....

In the last 20 years, the trend has changed - and they’ve all been Expendables one after another , apart from a few superheroes like Batman (Younis Khan), Superman (Babar Azam), Iron Man (Misbah), and last but not least The Equalizer (Hafeez).

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Abid ali got one that kept low like southee
Fawad Alam went hooking like nicholls
Haris got caught at gully similar to blundell
Azhar ali went fishing like santner and latham
Shaheen shah got out similar to watling

Obviously fawad, azhar and Haris have weaknesses that will be and have exploited time and time again

 

[Junaids]

Of all the outrageous things I have heard on this thread the criticism levelled at Fawad has got to take the cake.

The guy literally just got back into the team after putting in after toiling in doemstic more than I can think of in recent memory. .

You are missing the point.

I TOTALLY agree that from 2010 to 2017 Fawad Alam had more right to be playing Test cricket than Asad Shafiq or Misbah-ul-Haq.

But he is 35 now, and at an age where every foreign batsman of his age apart from Ross Taylor has already retired. All of them.

What's the point of picking someone in 2021 for what he did in domestic cricket in 2015? This is the trap that Misbah has fallen into with Abid Ali too.

By all means reward good QEA performances - but the same year. I'd be fine with Saud Shakeel and Mohammad Nawaz and Sajid Khan and Hasan Ali being called up for the next series.

But don't wait 5 years and then pick them then for what they did now.

Fawad Alam was badly treated when he should have been in every Test squad. But that doesn't justify picking him ahead of Saud Shakeel now.