The gap between India, Australia and other teams

[Xoib]

The gap is increasing at an alarming rate between these 2 and the rest of the world teams are flogged right left and centre when they visit these two countries.

What needs to be done to address this growing gap in competitiveness?

 

[Mamoon]

Australia should not be grouped with India yet. Teams like South Africa and England Zealand have a better chance of competing in Australia than in India, and India themselves are more likely to beat a full-strength Australia away than vice-versa.

Australia’s tour to India in 2017 demonstrated why beating Kohli’s India in India in Test cricket is the toughest challenge in the sport today.

Kohli had the worst series of his life while Smith and Lyon were outstanding, but India still won the series 2-1.

Even Ishant had the worst series of his post 2014 phase.

 

[Hyperion66]

It was WI and Aus in 70's and 80's, Aus till 1998-2007/8. IMO Cricket was at it's competitive best in the 90's.

 

[Hyperion66]

India vs Aus this year will truly be the clash of the titans.

 

[Xoib]

Australia should not be grouped with India yet. Teams like South Africa and England Zealand have a better chance of competing in Australia than in India, and India themselves are more likely to beat a full-strength Australia away than vice-versa.

Australia’s tour to India in 2017 demonstrated why beating Kohli’s India in India in Test cricket is the toughest challenge in the sport today.

Kohli had the worst series of his life while Smith and Lyon were outstanding, but India still won the series 2-1.

Even Ishant had the worst series of his post 2014 phase.

England is 0-9 , Nz is 0-5 over their last two visits to Australia no way have they competed only SA has but we know the current SA will get slaughtered if they go there right now. Yes India is ahead but Aus is clear #2 and then a big gap.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Clearly a class apart India and Australia. Their upcoming away series will decide where they stand. I will wait till end of 2020.

 

[Aman]

The end of Test cricket is near, going 4 days will only speed up its demise.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Australia should not be grouped with India yet. Teams like South Africa and England Zealand have a better chance of competing in Australia than in India, and India themselves are more likely to beat a full-strength Australia away than vice-versa.

Australia’s tour to India in 2017 demonstrated why beating Kohli’s India in India in Test cricket is the toughest challenge in the sport today.

Kohli had the worst series of his life while Smith and Lyon were outstanding, but India still won the series 2-1.

Even Ishant had the worst series of his post 2014 phase.

and they even won all the tosses rofl. imagine if india won the tosses.

but I think australia are definitely favourites to beat india at home this year however india can defeat them if they win tosses. it's 50 50 provided bumrah is fully fit.

reaosn why india is number one is because india can comfortably negate tosses at home and spank teams

 

[tyron_woodley]

england is number 3 and potentially number 2 if they get archer to play well in bouncy conditions

 

[Xoib]

england is number 3 and potentially number 2 if they get archer to play well in bouncy conditions

England will lose broad and Anderson very soon no way they are number 2.

 

[Usman Chadda]

With all due respect, Australia will get smashed in Asia.

 

[Pakhs]

Test Cricket is for rich countries only and those are the 3 most mentioned sides on this thread already! I dont think there is lot more to it. In LOIs other teams are there and there about and the GAP is not as BIG! NZ - Pakistan - SA - WI - SR are doing okay in LOIs as expected.

India are a richest board so clear No. 1 in tests cricket - Given their population and financial resources they should have been undisputed No.1 for atleast 10 years by now but they will get there or should get there.

Australia will always be among the top 2 teams! England is the only unpredictable team among the three richest boards as cricket among the local population is dying in the country slowly.

 

[ads101]

Because these are the only two countries where test cricket isn't dying. They are rich boards, who have good interest in cricket. Interest in cricket in general in UK is dying, and there's been more of a shift to promote LOI to get kids into cricket now.

Poorer boards even if the interest is still there e.g. Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka are going to veer towards LOI anyway. India has a big enough population following cricket that even if they prefer LOI overwhelmingly, they'll still be able to drum up a crowd to support tests. But that'll wane over time too. People care about IPL more than tests.

Really only Aus test future is bright, where tests is still the no.1 prioritised format even amongst the young. But what happens when no one else wants to tests anymore.

Really the whole situations begs for significant changes in the test format to adapt to the times. But I think as a whole we prefer to stick our heads in the sand and let it slowly die.

 

[Junaids]

The gap is increasing at an alarming rate between these 2 and the rest of the world teams are flogged right left and centre when they visit these two countries.

What needs to be done to address this growing gap in competitiveness?

No, it’s a dynamic process as teams age and mature.

We see in South American football that often a team has a bad twelve months after the oldest players are dumped after a World Cup, but then peaks by the next World Cup.

Three years ago there was no significant difference between Australia, England, India, New Zealand, Pakistan and South Africa.

Now the top two are India, which is an ageing team entering a period of decline, and Australia, which is approaching its peak.

Meanwhile England and New Zealand and South Africa are in decline, whereas Pakistan has had its decline and is improving again.

 

[KP From India]

We are minnows away from home.
Other teams win at least half of their overseas matches.

 

[Manunited18]

India and Australia are clearly better than the rest no doubt about it, but the Indian team is ageing, but I'm sure with Dravid in charge they will able replcements, as for the4est England pakistan newzealand southafrica are all similar

 

[therealAB]

Australia should not be grouped with India yet. Teams like South Africa and England Zealand have a better chance of competing in Australia than in India, and India themselves are more likely to beat a full-strength Australia away than vice-versa.

Australia’s tour to India in 2017 demonstrated why beating Kohli’s India in India in Test cricket is the toughest challenge in the sport today.

Kohli had the worst series of his life while Smith and Lyon were outstanding, but India still won the series 2-1.

Even Ishant had the worst series of his post 2014 phase.

Australia is the only team to win a test in India for a long time, and were quite close to actually winning that series. Maybe there is a reason why some of the Indians played poorly, i.e Australia were decent. Lyon has figured out how to bowl in subcontinent, and sok is underrated in subcontinental conditions, quite a similar bowler to jadeja
Btw not Kohli's worse series.

 

[therealAB]

england is number 3 and potentially number 2 if they get archer to play well in bouncy conditions

Aus and Eng just drew in English conditions, no way are they better than Aus

 

[Aman]

Test Cricket is for rich countries only and those are the 3 most mentioned sides on this thread already! I dont think there is lot more to it. In LOIs other teams are there and there about and the GAP is not as BIG! NZ - Pakistan - SA - WI - SR are doing okay in LOIs as expected.

India are a richest board so clear No. 1 in tests cricket - Given their population and financial resources they should have been undisputed No.1 for atleast 10 years by now but they will get there or should get there.

Australia will always be among the top 2 teams! England is the only unpredictable team among the three richest boards as cricket among the local population is dying in the country slowly.

People need to wake up to this.

NZ, Pakistan, SL and WI should give up Test cricket and focus on LOI, grow the sport with T20s and strengthen your ODI team.

Test cricket is not going to last and it will always favor the rich countries who have the resources and money to dominate.

Test cricket cripples teams like NZ, Pakistan, SL and WI who lose money by playing matches - that money could be invested into grassroots cricket or be used to keep talented players in the sport.

 

[andy0204]

No, it’s a dynamic process as teams age and mature.

We see in South American football that often a team has a bad twelve months after the oldest players are dumped after a World Cup, but then peaks by the next World Cup.

Three years ago there was no significant difference between Australia, England, India, New Zealand, Pakistan and South Africa.

Now the top two are India, which is an ageing team entering a period of decline, and Australia, which is approaching its peak.

Meanwhile England and New Zealand and South Africa are in decline, whereas Pakistan has had its decline and is improving again.

Kohli was having back problem due to long home tours against England, Newzealand and one test match against Bangladesh,he scored 3 double hundreds during that period.
So you can imagine how much workload he has to face.
He was exhausted,infact he missed last match against Australia on that tour.
Technically it's correct it was his worst series but you have to look other things as well.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Australia is the only team to win a test in India for a long time, and were quite close to actually winning that series. Maybe there is a reason why some of the Indians played poorly, i.e Australia were decent. Lyon has figured out how to bowl in subcontinent, and sok is underrated in subcontinental conditions, quite a similar bowler to jadeja
Btw not Kohli's worse series.

and that was when Aussies won all 4 tosses and still lost.
They have absolutely no chance now when all the pace bowlers are in good form too. plus the spinners. Wirh the addition of bumrah it would make india even stronger.

 

[therealAB]

and that was when Aussies won all 4 tosses and still lost.
They have absolutely no chance now when all the pace bowlers are in good form too. plus the spinners. Wirh the addition of bumrah it would make india even stronger.

We now have twice as many batsmen who can bat against spin. Cummins is also 2 years more developed and lyon more experienced in said conditions. I think it would be 2-1/3-1 to India, but they would whitewash eng, nz

 

[tyron_woodley]

We now have twice as many batsmen who can bat against spin. Cummins is also 2 years more developed and lyon more experienced in said conditions. I think it would be 2-1/3-1 to India, but they would whitewash eng, nz

yes but india also have even better flat track bullies now. That's the problem for away teams. They bat deep at home with ashwin and jadeja. plus ruthless bowling attack.

I see a 3-1 or 2 -0 india win. We shall see.

in australia at the moment In australia it would be very interesting to see who emerges victorious.

can india beat Aussies away? yes but toss would matter. I don't see either team winning if rhey bat second in australia. Seems like it's a huge disadvantage to do so.

wish n.z batted in the second test vs Aussies. would have been interesting. no doubt australia would still crush them but atleast it would give them a chance to put up a fight batting first.

 

[jnaveen1980]

If it is India vs OZ it will come down to form, pitch conditions. INdian fielding has to imrpove remarkably. They have been dropping catches for fun recently across all formats.

 

[silent ischemia]

India vs Aus this year will truly be the clash of the titans.

Only in Australia. India in India is invincible

 

[HappyWarsFan]

People need to wake up to this.

NZ, Pakistan, SL and WI should give up Test cricket and focus on LOI, grow the sport with T20s and strengthen your ODI team.

Test cricket is not going to last and it will always favor the rich countries who have the resources and money to dominate.

Test cricket cripples teams like NZ, Pakistan, SL and WI who lose money by playing matches - that money could be invested into grassroots cricket or be used to keep talented players in the sport.

Absolutely not. There is still a decent amount of people like myself who like test cricket the most. And test cricket seperates men from boys and really shows where you are as a cricketing nation. Investing in tests generally improves a teams fundamental skills and that translates over to other formats as well.

 

[The Viper]

Austarlia are very dominant at home- only India is better at home.

They have a top class pace attack with three match winners with the bat in Labuschagne, Smith and Warner( mostly at home).

The gap is wide as most other nations have vulnerability at home.

 

[MMHS]

Leaving Test cricket will be suicidal - it’ll come down to FC cricket as well eventually.

The game is learned & developed world n a different way. People who think avoiding Test cricket can avail teams/countries sustain in the game are living in fools paradise. They are watching current batch of players shining in T20s, who are already developed cricketers from FC system. Once this generation leaves, unless Test/FC cricket is prioritised, next batch won’t compete even with FC teams of AUS, ENG, IND .... in LO version as well.

Cricket at current state, can’t be developed without learning fundamentals. If this game is to nurtured bypassing 4/5 days cricket, then we’ll need massive changes in the rules of cricket.

 

[JaDed]

India and Australia are clearly better than the rest no doubt about it, but the Indian team is ageing, but I'm sure with Dravid in charge they will able replcements, as for the4est England pakistan newzealand southafrica are all similar

We are minnows away from home.
Other teams win at least half of their overseas matches.

No one wins half of their overseas matches.. check the stats of potw this week posted by [MENTION=53377]jeetu[/MENTION]

 

[barah_admi]

The gap is increasing at an alarming rate between these 2 and the rest of the world teams are flogged right left and centre when they visit these two countries.

What needs to be done to address this growing gap in competitiveness?

Can I ask you what the gap is? Didn't this same group of players get thrashed in SA and England?

 

[Hasan123]

Australia and India are the powerhouses of test cricket. England and South Africa won't he far behind once their teams develop over the next couple of years.

 

[Savak]

I wont really write India up there yet. They haven't won in South Africa and they lost in England, they beat a weak Australian team without Smith, Warner. Had they been facing the present Australian team the scores could be different. But If this Indian team plays all its games at home then no doubt they will rule the charts

 

[Geil]

The gap is increasing at an alarming rate between these 2 and the rest of the world teams are flogged right left and centre when they visit these two countries.

What needs to be done to address this growing gap in competitiveness?

I do not agree at all , definitely when it comes to playing test matches at home then yes India is far ahead from all teams but not Australia as they lost to India in Australia but when you see the away records then india have not won a series against England and south Africa recently and Australia could not beat pakistan in UAE or south africa in south africa or even england they just drew the recent ashes series and also austrlia lost in sri lanka and only drew a series in Bangladesh if i am not mistaken so absolutely there is not much gap as you say between teams i feel

 

[jnaveen1980]

I wont really write India up there yet. They haven't won in South Africa and they lost in England, they beat a weak Australian team without Smith, Warner. Had they been facing the present Australian team the scores could be different. But If this Indian team plays all its games at home then no doubt they will rule the charts

A team without AB would definitely struggle against India. He was the savior in that series for them. Against England it is such a travesty India came with 1-4 instead of 3-2. Beacuse they were in such position to come away with 3-2. Dhawan's dropped catch cost the Test. Except one test in England all were very close so much so anyone could have won on day 4. Technically a failed series. Regarding Australian series. Same team without Smith and Warner blasted Srilanka away who later won the series in SA. Beating any Australian team in Australia is tough especially for Asian countries. For the record Labuchagne did play in that series.

In that 2018/19 sheffield shield season

Shaun Marsh 6 innings 443 runs 88.60 avge

Marcus Harris 10 innings 1188 runs 69.88 avge

Handscomb 8 innings 361 runs 45.12 avge

Labuchagne 17 innings 416 runs 24.47 avge

Why do you think Labu would be preferred ahead of them. Obviously in these conditions they dominated against Australian bowlers.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Can I ask you what the gap is? Didn't this same group of players get thrashed in SA and England?

gap is because india would still beat those teams had they won the tosses.

conversely toss will make no difference in india. india will still spank every team at home regardless whether they win the toss.

That's why india is rightfully number 1.

yes and toss matters. australia can't win without winning the toss vs india and even England for the matter.

 

[Ab Fan]

Australia have been brilliant since they had Smith and Warner back. Labu has been an absolute luxury for them. In Asia, he will be used for his bowling as well and he already did very well in England. The pace bowling is fantastic to say the least with the quartet capable enough to take wickets everywhere.

 

[tyron_woodley]

A team without AB would definitely struggle against India. He was the savior in that series for them. Against England it is such a travesty India came with 1-4 instead of 3-2. Beacuse they were in such position to come away with 3-2. Dhawan's dropped catch cost the Test. Except one test in England all were very close so much so anyone could have won on day 4. Technically a failed series. Regarding Australian series. Same team without Smith and Warner blasted Srilanka away who later won the series in SA. Beating any Australian team in Australia is tough especially for Asian countries. For the record Labuchagne did play in that series.

In that 2018/19 sheffield shield season

Shaun Marsh 6 innings 443 runs 88.60 avge

Marcus Harris 10 innings 1188 runs 69.88 avge

Handscomb 8 innings 361 runs 45.12 avge

Labuchagne 17 innings 416 runs 24.47 avge

Why do you think Labu would be preferred ahead of them. Obviously in these conditions they dominated against Australian bowlers.

bumrah missed the first 2 tests as well.
bhuvi missed the series

no Mayank
no Shaw
you see how it was india B now?

but we lost. To win away even top teams like india and australia need their full strength team.

In saying that England and south africa are still strong at home. Besides toss factor plays a huge role in the outcome away.

most of the wins by the so called great aussie team of 2000 was when they won the toss. They won away only when other teams declined or missed players. It is HARD to win a series away when you play the opponent's full strength team. It just doesn't happen easily. No GOAT team has been able to do it.

Graeme Smith's saffers won away vs good teams but they lost at home to australia and England. So what difference does that make really? nothing. they drew at home and away vs india.

 

[MenInG]

5 – Tests won by Australia in the season – three against New Zealand and two against Pakistan. It is the 10th time they have completed a summer sweep. The previous two instances were against England who lost 5-0 to Australia in the Ashes in 2013-14 and 2006-07. The last time Australia won all home Tests against multiple teams was also when New Zealand (2-0) and Pakistan (3-0) toured in 2004-05.

8.82 – New Zealand's win percentage in Tests in Australia – the second-worst among the teams who have come Down Under more than once. Sri Lanka (0 wins, 13 losses, two draws) have the worst percentage in Tests in Australia followed by the Kiwis, who have won only 3 out of 34 Tests. Two of those wins came in 1985 when New Zealand won 2-1 thanks to Sir Richard Hadlee's 33 wickets in three Tests. The other win came in a drawn series in 2011.

896 – Runs scored by Marnus Labuschagne across five Tests this season, the highest tally by a batsman who played only eight innings in an Australian summer. Only three batsmen – Ricky Ponting, Matthew Hayden (both twice) and Wally Hammond – have scored more than Labuschagne's 896 in an Australian summer but all played more than eight innings. Labuschagne scored 347 runs in two innings against Pakistan and 549 in six innings against New Zealand. He also registered four centuries in the summer. The only batsman with more hundreds in a season in Australia is Ponting with five centuries in 2005-06.

63.43 – Labuschagne's batting average in Tests, the second highest in the 142-year history of the game and only behind Don Bradman's 99.94. Among 549 batsmen who have scored 1000 runs in Tests, the top five batting averages belong to Australia – Bradman (99.94), Labuschagne (63.43), Sid Barnes (63.05), Steve Smith (62.84) and Adam Voges (61.81). The highest average by a non-Australian is 60.97, which belongs to South Africa's Graeme Pollock.

131 – David Warner's batting average in the season, the highest for an opening batsman who played at least five innings in a home season. Warner scored 786 runs from eight innings at an average of 131.00. In doing so he bettered Alastair Cook who had scored 766 runs at 127.66 in England's historic Ashes win in Australia in 2010-11. Warner started the home season with a century (154) against Pakistan in Brisbane and closed it with a century as well – 111 not out against New Zealand in Sydney. However, the highlight of the summer was his unbeaten 335 in the pink-ball Test against Pakistan in Adelaide.

10 – Test innings since Steve Smith has scored a century, his longest hundred-drought since returning to the team in 2013. It took Smith 22 innings to score his maiden Test century (against England at the Oval in 2013). Smith's most recent century was against England in Manchester in last year's Ashes. The former Australian captain scored only 254 runs in seven innings this summer with a highest score of 85 in Melbourne. He scored 40 runs at 20.00 against Pakistan and 214 at 42.80 against New Zealand.

27 – Wickets taken by Nathan Lyon in five Tests, the most he has taken in a home summer. Lyon accounted for 20 wickets in three Tests against New Zealand and seven in two against Pakistan. The last slow bowler to take 27 or more wickets in an Australian season was Nathan Haurtiz with 29 scalps in six Tests against West Indies and Pakistan in 2009-10.

3 – Five-wicket hauls taken by Lyon in the season. He took five wickets in each innings against New Zealand in the last Test in Sydney, having also claimed five against Pakistan in Adelaide. It is the first time in almost 22 years that a slow bowler has taken 3 five-fors in Tests in an Australian summer. The last was Shane Warne in 1997-98. Stuart MacGill however also took three five-fors when Australia hosted Bangladesh for a two-Test series outside the summer season in 2003.

19 – Tests Australia have played under Tim Paine's captaincy. In the entire Test history, only two players have captained in more Tests while donning the gloves – Bangladesh's Mushfiqur Rahim (28) and India's MS Dhoni (60). Under Paine, Australia have won 10 Tests and lost six while three were drawn.

12 – Players used by Australia in the season. It is the first time Australia have used only 12 players in a season involving two visiting teams. The only change in the season was James Pattinson replacing Josh Hazlewood, who missed the last two games against New Zealand because of injury. Australia have previously played with 12 or less players in a summer on three occasions but that was involving only one touring team – England in 2013-14 and 2006-07, and South Africa in 1910-11.

7 – Consecutive Tests that have finished inside four days in Australia. All five Tests this summer with New Zealand and Pakistan were done in four days and before that two Tests involving Sri Lanka at the start of 2019 also produced results inside four days. It's the first time since 1930-31 that seven consecutive Tests have produced results in Australia inside four playing days, however, before this stretch of seven Tests, there were 12 consecutive Tests in Australia that went to the fifth day.

Domain Test Series v New Zealand

Australia squad: David Warner, Joe Burns, Marnus Labuschagne, Steve Smith, Matthew Wade, Travis Head, Tim Paine (c, wk), Pat Cummins, Mitch Starc, Nathan Lyon, James Pattinson, Michael Neser, Mitchell Swepson

New Zealand: Todd Astle, Tom Blundell, Trent Boult, Colin de Grandhomme, Matt Henry, Kyle Jamieson, Tom Latham, Henry Nicholls, Glenn Phillips, Jeet Raval, Mitchell Santner, Tim Southee, Ross Taylor, BJ Watling, Neil Wagner, Kane Williamson (c)

First Test: Australia won by 296 runs

Second Test: Australia won by 247 runs

Third Test: Australia won by 279 runs

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/aus...tics-warner-labuschagne-lyon-smith/2020-01-07