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The impact of Wahab Riaz

Blitz

Blitz

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Now I was thinking about our team for the future and realised that we seemed to have won a few matches recently without Riaz, but people were still putting him in the squad as back up, etc.

I always thought he was the problem, but never really looked at it statistically. Until now....


So, since January 2016, essentially the last 18 months, we have played 24 ODI's.

We have played 12 WITH Riaz, and 12 WITHOUT Riaz. Makes for a perfect comparison.


The results:

With Riaz: 3 Wins. 9 Losses. 25% Win Rate.

Without Riaz: 9 Wins. 3 Losses. 75% Win Rate.


What was the most uncanny thing about this, was every time I looked at a result, we would win the match in a series where Riaz would finally be dropped.

Infact, just coming into the Champions Trophy, we beat West Indies 2-1. But we lost the first match with Riaz. Dropped him, went for Junaid/Amir/Hassan, and won the next 2.

It beggers belief that he was bought back in for India.

Thoughts? I'm of the opinion that he really should never be in our ODI side. If I were to expand the above time limit, I'm sure he'll feature heavily in our shocking ODI timeline from 2012-2016.
 
Well those numbers are quite damning.

Its mystifying how he's retained his place for so long despite his problems with control over line and length, wrist position and overstepping the line.

He did have utility as an old ball bowler using reverse swing - his best spell was in Mohali in 2011. But with the two new ball rule we don't see as much reverse - albeit we were probably the only team to get appreciable reverse in the CT. And Wahab is simply not a new ball bowler.

Time to move on from him.
 
The numbers speak for themselves. Good thread. He is the Umar akmal / Ahmed Shehzad of our fast bowling. To his credit unlike the other two he does not show attitude when he is dropped.
 
I dont know if one player can make that much of a difference but anyway I would say Wahab is good in tests in T20s, he should not be selected in the ODIs (With two new balls no reverse swing). Look at is ODI stats they are pretty mediocre and has never won us a match in ODIs.
He can ball well at death but whats the point when you have already given 60 in 6 overs. T20 is fine as its always like bowling in death overs of ODIs.
 
Shane Watson is to blame for Wahab's inclusion since the World cup, plain and simple!
 
he is rubbish in ODI's. Bowls too many no balls, no variation, too predictable he's useless
 
Wahab as a bowler still has a role to play in Test Matches, with the old ball mostly..

Like Peter Siddle, he usually doesn't end up doing favors for himself in ODIs
 
Blitz said:
Now I was thinking about our team for the future and realised that we seemed to have won a few matches recently without Riaz, but people were still putting him in the squad as back up, etc.

I always thought he was the problem, but never really looked at it statistically. Until now....


So, since January 2016, essentially the last 18 months, we have played 24 ODI's.

We have played 12 WITH Riaz, and 12 WITHOUT Riaz. Makes for a perfect comparison.


The results:

With Riaz: 3 Wins. 9 Losses. 25% Win Rate.

Without Riaz: 9 Wins. 3 Losses. 75% Win Rate.


What was the most uncanny thing about this, was every time I looked at a result, we would win the match in a series where Riaz would finally be dropped.

Infact, just coming into the Champions Trophy, we beat West Indies 2-1. But we lost the first match with Riaz. Dropped him, went for Junaid/Amir/Hassan, and won the next 2.

It beggers belief that he was bought back in for India.

Thoughts? I'm of the opinion that he really should never be in our ODI side. If I were to expand the above time limit, I'm sure he'll feature heavily in our shocking ODI timeline from 2012-2016.
Click to expand...

I noticed this- good to see the figures back it up. It's certainly food for thought.

The other thing I noticed about Wahab is if he is hit for a boundary in an over it is almost guaranteed he will give away another boundary in the same over. Not sure if it is a mental thing/lack of cricketing brain but it is a noticeable trend.
 
The most awful player to play for Pakistan recently, please retire Wuahab sir, spare the success of Pakistan cricket and the fans.

Alas, I don't think its possible, didn't he start playing due to a sifarish? Corruption will NEVER leave Pakistan, or its cricket, we are eternally doomed to have at least a few set backs, makes me sad.
 
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Titan24 said:
I dont know if one player can make that much of a difference but anyway I would say Wahab is good in tests in T20s, he should not be selected in the ODIs (With two new balls no reverse swing). Look at is ODI stats they are pretty mediocre and has never won us a match in ODIs.
He can ball well at death but whats the point when you have already given 60 in 6 overs. T20 is fine as its always like bowling in death overs of ODIs.
Click to expand...

agree, a 4 over spell and he can be really destructive, Yest cricket has ZERO PRESSURE, and he can be a good partnership breaker.
 
waleed88 said:
Wahab as a bowler still has a role to play in Test Matches, with the old ball mostly..

Like Peter Siddle, he usually doesn't end up doing favors for himself in ODIs
Click to expand...

Peter Siddle last played an ODI in 2010.
 
Interesting analysis. But if this was a medical or scientific study, it would be thrown out due to a lack of numbers (and randomisation).
I think, however, that he should continue to be selected in squads where we expect to come across fast, bouncy pitches such as in Australia, or where there is a chance of reverse swing. Without out these weapons, Wahab is likely to be cannon fodder to good batsmen.
 
Wahab Riaz was one of the biggest reasons we beat England in the UAE test matches last year. He's also a fantastic bowler when on song, as he's shown in the two World Cups he took part in. Yes, he's in poor form and might be over the hill now but a prime Wahab Riaz is a very good bowler which is why I, and many others, still want him to be a pace option for Pakistan. If he's still got it, that is.

The emergence of Hassan Ali might make limit his playing time by a lot, however. Amir and Junaid as the opening bowlers, Hassan as the first change is a fearsome pace attack. Then you have four or five good bowlers, including Riaz, fighting for the two back-up pace slots which is a very healthy situation for any team.
 
He's our enforcer. Makes things out of nothing.

On a dead pitch with set batsman he is the only one who can dislodge them
 
Wahab Riaz's impact is always 90-100 runs in ODI cricket and 40 of 4 overs in T-20 cricket. He is a surplus to requirements in ODI's and T-20's. In test matches he can be more useful with his pace and reverse swing and Pakistan would be well advised to preserve him for test matches and to finish his ODI and T-20 career.
 
Savak said:
Wahab Riaz's impact is always 90-100 runs in ODI cricket and 40 of 4 overs in T-20 cricket. He is a surplus to requirements in ODI's and T-20's. In test matches he can be more useful with his pace and reverse swing and Pakistan would be well advised to preserve him for test matches and to finish his ODI and T-20 career.
Click to expand...

We already have Hasan Ali and Mohammad Abbas who can utilise both conventional and reverse swing for Tests. They both performed on dry, flat Caribbean pitches. There's no need for Wahab in Tests.

Wahab got a free ride under Waqar "he's like a son" Younis. Sadly that free ride continued for a year under Arthur but thankfully it looks like the axe has fallen.
 
We really need to find someone who can touch 150 Kph and have him in the 15 member squad at least. On the wickets which offer nothing for pace bowlers only bowlers with real speed can disturb the batsmen,
 
Bilal7 said:
Wahab Riaz was one of the biggest reasons we beat England in the UAE test matches last year. He's also a fantastic bowler when on song, as he's shown in the two World Cups he took part in. Yes, he's in poor form and might be over the hill now but a prime Wahab Riaz is a very good bowler which is why I, and many others, still want him to be a pace option for Pakistan. If he's still got it, that is.

The emergence of Hassan Ali might make limit his playing time by a lot, however. Amir and Junaid as the opening bowlers, Hassan as the first change is a fearsome pace attack. Then you have four or five good bowlers, including Riaz, fighting for the two back-up pace slots which is a very healthy situation for any team.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I dont mind having Wahab in Test matches on flat wickets or T20s as well for the post 10 overs. In ODIs he should be replaced by someone who can bowl fast like really fast (150 Kph) with good seam position and targeting the stumps that will give the variety to the squad.
 
The only people putting them in their fantasy sides are PP experts who are obsessed with phassst pace... They need to be ignored and shunned.
 
Unfortunately, CT17 was the end of Wahab Riaz. He just did not work hard enough on his wrist position, his run-up, as well as his fitness levels. His peak (if there was one ever) has long gone. He needs to make a decision to either just stick to T20 cricket leagues or look to play Test matches only. He should be no where near the Pakistan LOI side.
 
I did not expect this. These are some scary stats and figures for Wahab. I love pace and selflessness and Wahab has both those qualities therefore, I still had a soft spot for him but these numbers you've just presented have taken every, little bit of the liking I had for him.

He's been made pretty much innocuous ever since the new two-ball rule in ODI's and therefore, persisting with him would be foolish, especially when the bench is so strong. He is also 34 and there's no need to play him in T20i's, we need to try out new bowlers.

As for Tests, I would still keep him in the squad because without him, the our attack would be too one dimensional. Not that I want him to play every Test, but having him as an option for the longer format isn't a bad idea.

Nonetheless, here's to hoping he never dawns the green jersey again. He's given a few brilliant performances and a lot of shameful ones too.
 
Bilal7 said:
Wahab Riaz was one of the biggest reasons we beat England in the UAE test matches last year. He's also a fantastic bowler when on song, as he's shown in the two World Cups he took part in. Yes, he's in poor form and might be over the hill now but a prime Wahab Riaz is a very good bowler which is why I, and many others, still want him to be a pace option for Pakistan. If he's still got it, that is.

The emergence of Hassan Ali might make limit his playing time by a lot, however. Amir and Junaid as the opening bowlers, Hassan as the first change is a fearsome pace attack. Then you have four or five good bowlers, including Riaz, fighting for the two back-up pace slots which is a very healthy situation for any team.
Click to expand...

The only place where I can tolerate Wahab is the Test squad. We may need him there because of the extra pace he offers. Just that little burst where he turns the game into our favor is a positive. But he's 34 and he's starting to lose pace drastically, we must look for replacements.
 
Can't believe this guy was one of my favourite players uptill a couple of years ago.He has declined alarmingly since the last WC.

Should retire from ODI's and T20's,or be dropped permanently

Will keep him in tests for another year if he performs well.
 
Guys, he is done in all formats.

Look at his performances in the last matches he has played in:

Last Test match: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1077953.html

Last ODI: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1022353.html

Last T20I: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/1085496.html

We must move on from him as he is finished and can't improve any further at this age.

I say this with a heavy heart because I grew up watching Wahab and even now I try to bowl similar to him. He had a lot of pace and a lot of passion.

Unfortunately, not good enough anymore.
 
A great player once told me that the best weapon any bowler can possess is not speed,accuracy or swing. The best weapon for any bowler is consistency

Wahab, Sami and a few others have wasted the gift they had by not focusing on this one quality their entire International careers.
 
Rana said:
A great player once told me that the best weapon any bowler can possess is not speed,accuracy or swing. The best weapon for any bowler is consistency

Wahab, Sami and a few others have wasted the gift they had by not focusing on this one quality their entire International careers.
Click to expand...

I agree. Wahab belongs to same category as M Sami. Fast, talented but unable to take wickets regularly. Plus he also cant contain.
 
Wahab numbers are not that shocking :shocked considering he had quite a few world record expensive spells ;-)

He can only bowl in AUS, curtains for him now.
 
waleed88 said:
Wahab as a bowler still has a role to play in Test Matches, with the old ball mostly..

Like Peter Siddle, he usually doesn't end up doing favors for himself in ODIs
Click to expand...

Having a role is not the same thing as being good enough for selection. There are only 11 spots and it would be an absolute travesty if Wahab plays ahead of Abbas and Hasan. They are three times the bowler he is, Tests or no Tests. Time to move on.
 
Gasman said:
Interesting analysis. But if this was a medical or scientific study, it would be thrown out due to a lack of numbers (and randomisation).
I think, however, that he should continue to be selected in squads where we expect to come across fast, bouncy pitches such as in Australia, or where there is a chance of reverse swing. Without out these weapons, Wahab is likely to be cannon fodder to good batsmen.
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Randomisation or lack of numbers.

This is cricket, and an 18 month period with 24 matches played is a massive sample size. Given ICC rankings are based on a similar time period, means that it makes sense.

I'll give you some more numbers.

Wahab Riaz in ODIs in the last 18 month has averaged over 42 with the ball, with an economy of just over 6.

In matches involving Riaz in last 18 months, the opposition has scored at 5.94 on average.

In matches not involving Riaz in last 18 months, the opposition has scored at 5.01 on average!


Its a point several people on the forums have observed. Not only is he terrible, but when he goes for runs, it gives the opposition batsman more confidence to go for everyone else.

This isn't a statistical anomaly or 'randomisation'. Its just cold hard facts. If a bowler made his debut 18 months ago, and had Riaz's figures, most people will call him the worst international player in history.
 
Can still be useful in Tests especially in subcontinent, where he can utilize reverse swing and pace to break partnerships and get that odd stubborn batsman out. In ODI's he shouldn't be picked again. In T20i, he is competing with Amir in my opinion, as Rumman and Hasan will be the death overs specialists.
 
His enforcer role only works in tests in Odis he's rubbish and a serial match winner for the batting team.
 
Arham_PakFan said:
Can't believe this guy was one of my favourite players uptill a couple of years ago.He has declined alarmingly since the last WC.

Should retire from ODI's and T20's,or be dropped permanently

Will keep him in tests for another year if he performs well.
Click to expand...

I'm loving your player choice more and more

STOP BACKING INTIMIDATED KITTENS
 
wahab never seems to bowl well for some reason,he is only in the team to bowl and tbh it's time he goes

But the most insulting thing is he doesn't care,that 444 game he kept on feeding Buttler and Morgan Waist high slower ball bouncers also bowls No-Balls so us fans cannot celebrate a Wicket instead cursing that he has got it
 
Billy1999 said:
I'm loving your player choice more and more

STOP BACKING INTIMIDATED KITTENS
Click to expand...

Don't criticise my player choice when you have a picture of Afridi as an avatar :)

Anyways,I advocated for Riaz to be dropped from LOI's and only be kept in the test squad.
 
New Yorker said:
Having a role is not the same thing as being good enough for selection. There are only 11 spots and it would be an absolute travesty if Wahab plays ahead of Abbas and Hasan. They are three times the bowler he is, Tests or no Tests. Time to move on.
Click to expand...

Hasan is good, Wahab can be his backup, don't wanna bowl Hasan to the ground by playing him in every game left right center, you need to rotate fast bowlers
 
He bowls his heart out, and still had serious pace- so fans still have a soft spot for him

But it's clear that his time is over. We have a set attack right now, and the backup spots should really be used to continue to new develop young pacers
 
waleed88 said:
Hasan is good, Wahab can be his backup, don't wanna bowl Hasan to the ground by playing him in every game left right center, you need to rotate fast bowlers
Click to expand...

umar gul could also be his backup, but why on earth would anyone want that? wahab is an ageing mediocre bowler with nothing to teach to anyone. meanwhile young talent waits in the wings. time. to. move on.
 
New Yorker said:
umar gul could also be his backup, but why on earth would anyone want that? wahab is an ageing mediocre bowler with nothing to teach to anyone. meanwhile young talent waits in the wings. time. to. move on.
Click to expand...

Gul was until just a year ago vs England. Despite upcoming youngsters we shouldn't forget he picked up the most wickets for us against Aus in the Test Matches... more wickets than champion Amir.

Still feel we haven't seen the last of him.. he is like Shehzad and Akmal, will always be around
 
Just too old now to learn or carry on bowling fast. 10 years younger, he would have been automatic choice in 3 formats.
 
The great man's impact is giving 100 runs in every ten overs. What an achievement!
 
He is like hafeeez of Bowling.

If Pakistan pick right players , for right formats they will at least 20 % more games.
 
His career should be limited to PSL only
 
In any other country the 2015 England ODI series would've been his final games...
 
He always gives 100%. bowl with heart he is still very good when ball is reversing he should be in the squad.He has bowled many good spells on flat wickets.
 
dauntless said:
He always gives 100%. bowl with heart he is still very good when ball is reversing he should be in the squad.He has bowled many good spells on flat wickets.
Click to expand...

which player in the ct series looked like they weren't giving it 100 %? there are no prizes for effort
 
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