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The ineptness of the Indian Air Force

cricketjoshila said:
Mig 21 bisons fly CAPs inside Indian territory. They responded to the F16s and engaged them and took one down.
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Didn't happen. No photo, no nothing.

Only Arnab is clinging onto that anymore.
 
Varun said:
And the JF-17 is not Pakistan's 'best' jet. It's their version of the Tejas - a homegrown fighter with some foreign (Chinese) help.

Versus which we threw a Vietnam war era fighter. Go figure.
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Home grown fighter? It was made and designed by Chinese. Has a Russian engine and Chinese avionics. Designed in 2000s.

Some Block 2 JF 17 will likely outmatch the older F16s PAF has.
 
To all those calling that an F16 was shot. The US of A acknowledges anytime an F16 is downed. They also warned pakistan not to use them for offensive purposes. Thats why the J-17s were used in this operation.
 
Varun said:
Yes. They're at least good at that.
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You can believe the Pakistani version. I will believe the Indian air force.

You are sitting and writing this in some part of India because IAF is there. Or India would have been overrun by enemies in 4 wars.

But then again you think PAF didnot take to skies in 1999.
 
cricketjoshila said:
You can believe the Pakistani version. I will believe the Indian air force.
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Arre just open Twitter and hunt for photos/videos put out by multiple sources in real time. If there were 300 people killed or an F-16 shot down there would be some photos of a burning wreck or parts of the aircraft. Well, the only such images from today are of a chopper that our heroes have managed to crash, and Tweeters were prompt enough to let us know.

Both India and Pakistan official channels are PR centric and take them with several buckets of salt.

cricketjoshila said:
You are sitting and writing this in some part of India because IAF is there. Or India would have been overrun by enemies in 4 wars.
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I live near Old Airport Road, Bangalore. Just a few weeks ago a Mirage 2000 slammed down here, killing both pilots and close to overrunning my house. So much for that.
 
We are not allowed to use the F16s for offensive purposes as is our agreement with US. No F16s were used today. Otherwise they would take it off us or ban them.
 
F-16 is our most coveted aircraft and all the maneuvers are practiced on it.

If we had lost an F-16 we would be mourning over it, and we would be looking for the pilot and hailing him a hero for making it safe or embracing martyrdom.

You see, unlike India, we do not "disown" people after they are found because we are too scared to acknowledge the truth.
 
Varun said:
Arre just open Twitter and hunt for photos/videos put out by multiple sources in real time. If there were 300 people killed or an F-16 shot down there would be some photos of a burning wreck or parts of the aircraft. Well, the only such images from today are of a chopper that our heroes have managed to crash, and Tweeters were prompt enough to let us know.

Both India and Pakistan official channels are PR centric and take them with several buckets of salt.



I live near Old Airport Road, Bangalore. Just a few weeks ago a Mirage 2000 slammed down here, killing both pilots and close to overrunning my house. So much for that.
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300 or even 30 deaths is no joke

After every drone attack or even bin laden raid there would be several videos by locals and first hand accounts of what happened. And these were targeted strikes localised to a few people.

There’s no way there wouldn’t be images of wreckage, destruction and most importantly funerals
 
At least we have seen the evidence from Pakistan. But we have yet to see any video of 300 terrorists being wiped out of jungle from Pakistan. Or may be we will see it in the sequel of the movie 'Uri'.

The IQ level of many people have decreased here after this incident. I have seen some whatsapp statuses like 'Umeed karta hu ke kal subah jab uthunga toh Modi ji kahenge - bhaiyo aur beheno Pakistan nahi raha'. Not sure whether to laugh or feel embarrassed by this. How easily some people can be fooled. :inti
 
Slog said:
300 or even 30 deaths is no joke

After every drone attack or even bin laden raid there would be several videos by locals and first hand accounts of what happened. And these were targeted strikes localised to a few people.

There’s no way there wouldn’t be images of wreckage, destruction and most importantly funerals
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Exactly. Please convey this to the Arnab Goswamis of this world if you can.

I am watching his show right now (jobless I know) absolutely fuming. His only trick in the book is to make everything a BJP vs Congress issue, call some no-hopers from the other side and start screaming.
 
Varun said:
Exactly. Please convey this to the Arnab Goswamis of this world if you can.

I am watching his show right now (jobless I know) absolutely fuming. His only trick in the book is to make everything a BJP vs Congress issue, call some no-hopers from the other side and start screaming.
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Keep us updated what was said today just for laughs.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Its his hate for Modi which is compelling him to call IAF a liar and inept.

The IAF had gone inside Pak airspace upto Balakot and dropped bombs.
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So you admit your country started this war?

Good on you.

Now you can tell your learned Prime Minister to end it as well (seeing he created it in the first place) by calling for a ceasefire.

It's the least you can do in honor of your captured soldier.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Its his hate for Modi which is compelling him to call IAF a liar and inept.
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Please. It's the Indian Air Force and has nothing to do with the BJP or Congress - this is the Arnab tactic.

They lose planes by the dozens, fly MiG-21s by the 100s in 2019, send them to the frontlines, get our pilots captured and then strategically leak stories to the media hankering for every piece of foreign equipment ever manufactured.

Please join me in dissing these guys. They are gobbling your and my tax money with precious little to show for it. Criticizing them may make them improve.
 
Varun said:
And the JF-17 is not Pakistan's 'best' jet. It's their version of the Tejas - a homegrown fighter with some foreign (Chinese) help.
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JF-17 Thunder Factory is 25KM away from my home and it's being build there from more thn a decade now (for anyone raising any question) after early help from Chinese. Currently Block 2 is being developed and soon the work on Block 3 will begin.
 
Varun said:
Arre just open Twitter and hunt for photos/videos put out by multiple sources in real time. If there were 300 people killed or an F-16 shot down there would be some photos of a burning wreck or parts of the aircraft. Well, the only such images from today are of a chopper that our heroes have managed to crash, and Tweeters were prompt enough to let us know.

Both India and Pakistan official channels are PR centric and take them with several buckets of salt.



I live near Old Airport Road, Bangalore. Just a few weeks ago a Mirage 2000 slammed down here, killing both pilots and close to overrunning my house. So much for that.
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Did the govt claim 300 people died? Show me that statement?

Mirage 2000 that crashed was on a testing mission. It was testing new systems that were added to it. Btw the mirage 2000 crashed inside the HAL premises not inside your house

And before you ask, yes i have been to HAL and old airport road multiple times before the new airport opened.
 
Varun said:
Exactly. Please convey this to the Arnab Goswamis of this world if you can.

I am watching his show right now (jobless I know) absolutely fuming. His only trick in the book is to make everything a BJP vs Congress issue, call some no-hopers from the other side and start screaming.
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I tried to watch it for 10 mins based on your caramel popcorn suggestion, I'm not sure anyone can get angry at him. Those 10 mins were funnier than most Indian comedy TV shows I've seen :)))
 
100+ JF-17 are built so far in Pak and 30+ are Block 2 while the rest are Block 1.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Mirage 2000 that crashed was on a testing mission. It was testing new systems that were added to it. Btw the mirage 2000 crashed inside the HAL premises not inside your house

And before you ask, yes i have been to HAL and old airport road multiple times before the new airport opened.
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So what? Are you pinpointing the location of an air crash and assuring me of my safety? Here's an exercise for you: get me the dates of the last crashes of each of our combat aircraft type and post it here - I guarantee it will be in the last few years.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
At least we have seen the evidence from Pakistan. But we have yet to see any video of 300 terrorists being wiped out of jungle from Pakistan. Or may be we will see it in the sequel of the movie 'Uri'.

The IQ level of many people have decreased here after this incident. I have seen some whatsapp statuses like 'Umeed karta hu ke kal subah jab uthunga toh Modi ji kahenge - bhaiyo aur beheno Pakistan nahi raha'. Not sure whether to laugh or feel embarrassed by this. How easily some people can be fooled. :inti
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My indian friend just uploaded a fb status saying Lahore hum aa rahe hen!
 
Adijazz1706 said:
Tell him the airspace is closed for flights right now, also it's tough to get a visa :P
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We will welcome him even if he land using Mig-21. I will also order desi ghee waale special biscuits for him from Rahat Bakers and a karak cup of chaaye. Hum Mehmaan Nawaz log hen...
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
May be he put that status after watching Lahore song from Guru Randhawa. :inti
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There is a possibility... Btw i don't understand why Indians always talk about capturing Lahore in their comment why not Karachi (Backbone of Pak), Islamabad (Capital) or Rawalpindi (Army Headquarters).
 
WebGuru said:
There is a possibility... Btw i don't understand why Indians always talk about capturing Lahore in their comment why not Karachi (Backbone of Pak), Islamabad (Capital) or Rawalpindi (Army Headquarters).
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They would obviously want to capture the best city in Pakistan :)
 
the great khan said:
look alot of indians are probably critical of their air forces performance. What you should be asking is what were their mission parameters? What orders were they given? What were their rules of engagement?

Its quite clear that the iaf had rehearsed this action as they had predicted our response time at night. They were probably given roe's not to engage the paf and just give a message hence releasing their payload early and then moving off. Remember if reports from india are accurate the paf was facing a large force possibly 6-12 planes so if they were to engage they could have easily done so and probably done some major damage. O lets not say they were incompetent. They either knew their target was a hit/miss one or they were meant to hit something else and retreated. That is for you guys to figure out.

Moving onto todays incident. I have just read on the net that one aircraft was a mig-21 being escorted by an su30 sent for interception. Both aircraft were engaged by thunders and taken out. One crashed on our side the other on the other side. I cannot confirm the loss of the su30 but the bison is now confirmed.

Coming onto capability. I think this should silence those that think the thunder is mediocre. It is now combat proven. Simple fact. It has ended the argument of its capability vs the bison and potentially against the su30. (we will await confirmation as it could have been a mig-29). Either way as of today, the jf17 carried out six strikes by evading indiand air defences in indian kashmir, successfully completed its mission, shot down two iaf fighters and returned home. Not bad for a mediocre piece of junk.

Finally coming to overall capability. You have to remember when it comes to these engagements the odds are relatively even. Also take into account that we have been fighting a war for ten years. Our forces are battle hardened and have been going through intense combat situations. Including the paf. We have had to track the usaf which operates i afghanistan and have had experience of combat against the soviet union in the past too. We have also been training intensly against the su30 so have doctrines to counter it. Our biggest ally is indias overconfidence, hal, and india's lack of ability to get rid of aircraft like the mig-21. As long as you continue to deploy craft like the mig-21 in situations like today you will lose. End of. As for the raphael. All i'll say is that thing is a beast in our region but we have already flown against it. E.g. Red flag and in the mid east. We've also flown against the f22.

Another thing to note is that the iaf have never flown against the thunder till today. They have plenty of experience against the f16 but im sure they will learn lessons from today.

Overall today was a great day for a heavily outnumbered small but dedicated force. Our defence budget is ten times smaller than yours so i would question what that money is paying for rather than blame pilots who are professional and jsut follow orders..also i would question what orders they are getting and why..
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this.
 
WebGuru said:
There is a possibility... Btw i don't understand why Indians always talk about capturing Lahore in their comment why not Karachi (Backbone of Pak), Islamabad (Capital) or Rawalpindi (Army Headquarters).
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Because Lahore is the heart of Pakistan.

We might survive even if we heard that Karachi was occupied, Islamabad was occupied, heck every city could be occupied and we would keep fighting.

But if Lahore is gone, our resistance is gone.
 
WebGuru said:
There is a possibility... Btw i don't understand why Indians always talk about capturing Lahore in their comment why not Karachi (Backbone of Pak), Islamabad (Capital) or Rawalpindi (Army Headquarters).
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Kyunke lahore lahore hai :))

Or maybe they like pulao
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Because Lahore is the heart of Pakistan.

We might survive even if we heard that Karachi was occupied, Islamabad was occupied, heck every city could be occupied and we would keep fighting.

But if Lahore is gone, our resistance is gone.
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Ok calm down :))



Lahore will be the first to fall if there is ever an Indian invasion. Have you ever looked at a map, it is right at the border :inti
 
So let me get this straight.

What Pakistan is saying

1. They shot down 2 Indian jets.
2. One fell in Pakistan controlled Kashmir and another in Indian controlled Kashmir.
3. They have captured one IAF pilot. (Earlier they said 2-3 but now its 1...correct?)
4. They didn't lose any jets.

What India is saying

1. They shot down 1 Pakistani jet. Didn't name it in their official statement.
2. The aircraft fell in Pakistan controlled Kashmir.
3. They lost one MIG 20.
4. They were missing one IAF pilot (later acknowledged that he was in Pak custody).

--

Is this correct?

What's the final verdict?

Is there any way to find out about aircrafts that fell on Indian/Pakistan controlled Kashmir? There doesn't seem to be a murmur on either side regarding these supposedly crashed aircrafts.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
So let me get this straight.

What Pakistan is saying

1. They shot down 2 Indian jets.
2. One fell in Pakistan controlled Kashmir and another in Indian controlled Kashmir.
3. They have captured one IAF pilot. (Earlier they said 2-3 but now its 1...correct?)
4. They didn't lose any jets.

What India is saying

1. They shot down 1 Pakistani jet. Didn't name it in their official statement.
2. The aircraft fell in Pakistan controlled Kashmir.
3. They lost one MIG 20.
4. They were missing one IAF pilot (later acknowledged that he was in Pak custody).

--

Is this correct?

What's the final verdict?

Is there any way to find out about aircrafts that fell on Indian/Pakistan controlled Kashmir? There doesn't seem to be a murmur on either side regarding these supposedly crashed aircrafts.
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Pakistan has shared videos and images

India has shared no proof
 
Slog said:
Pakistan has shared videos and images

India has shared no proof
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Yeah.

But Pakistan could share proof cos one jet fell in Pak Kashmir.

They didn't share proof of the Indian jet that fell in Ind Kashmir (assuming it was hit).

India didn't share proof of the Pak jet that fell in Pak Kashmir (assuming it was hit).

Is my understanding correct?
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Yeah.

But Pakistan could share proof cos one jet fell in Pak Kashmir.

They didn't share proof of the Indian jet that fell in Ind Kashmir (assuming it was hit).

India didn't share proof of the Pak jet that fell in Pak Kashmir (assuming it was hit).

Is my understanding correct?
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even a bicycles comes with camera.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
So let me get this straight.

What Pakistan is saying

1. They shot down 2 Indian jets.
2. One fell in Pakistan controlled Kashmir and another in Indian controlled Kashmir.
3. They have captured one IAF pilot. (Earlier they said 2-3 but now its 1...correct?)
4. They didn't lose any jets.

What India is saying

1. They shot down 1 Pakistani jet. Didn't name it in their official statement.
2. The aircraft fell in Pakistan controlled Kashmir.
3. They lost one MIG 20.
4. They were missing one IAF pilot (later acknowledged that he was in Pak custody).

--

Is this correct?

What's the final verdict?

Is there any way to find out about aircrafts that fell on Indian/Pakistan controlled Kashmir? There doesn't seem to be a murmur on either side regarding these supposedly crashed aircrafts.
Click to expand...
The only difference is what we are saying is backed by video evidence while none of India claims are ever backed by any solid proofs
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Yeah.

But Pakistan could share proof cos one jet fell in Pak Kashmir.

They didn't share proof of the Indian jet that fell in Ind Kashmir (assuming it was hit).

India didn't share proof of the Pak jet that fell in Pak Kashmir (assuming it was hit).

Is my understanding correct?
Click to expand...

Yes.

But then India hasn't shown any proof of anything so far since their "intrusion".

So Indian claims are looking stupider minute by minute.
 
If Pak have the Indian pilot/s then surely they must show their destroyed jet/s as well.
 
WebGuru said:
We will welcome him even if he land using Mig-21. I will also order desi ghee waale special biscuits for him from Rahat Bakers and a karak cup of chaaye. Hum Mehmaan Nawaz log hen...
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Tapal Danedar. Hum tum aur ek cup chai.
 
WebGuru said:
There is a possibility... Btw i don't understand why Indians always talk about capturing Lahore in their comment why not Karachi (Backbone of Pak), Islamabad (Capital) or Rawalpindi (Army Headquarters).
Click to expand...

Because they love Nawaz :uakmal
 
Its not just the aircraft but also command & control and the pilots.

PAF killed two birds(no pun) with one stone. They demonstrated to India they can enter 'their' airspace and lock onto targets and then played an absolute blinder by lurring the IAF jets into Pak airspace and taking two out.
 
cricketjoshila said:
So the IAF lied?
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Lot of people are gonna ask for the photo , in this scenario the only thing I would be giving the benefit of the doubt to Ministry spokerperson is that Pak never admits anything till the end of war and they will switch stories then,I'm sure they even tried to make 1971 look good, and right now it does feel like Pak hasn't lost a single person in the war which is not true and they are covering ti like that.

But Defense ministry better make certain things available.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Because Lahore is the heart of Pakistan.

We might survive even if we heard that Karachi was occupied, Islamabad was occupied, heck every city could be occupied and we would keep fighting.

But if Lahore is gone, our resistance is gone.
Click to expand...

Slog said:
Kyunke lahore lahore hai :))

Or maybe they like pulao
Click to expand...

Is dil ne Biryani ke naam per humain bere dhoek diay hen...
 
JaDed said:
Lot of people are gonna ask for the photo , in this scenario the only thing I would be giving the benefit of the doubt to Ministry spokerperson is that Pak never admits anything till the end of war and they will switch stories then,I'm sure they even tried to make 1971 look good, and right now it does feel like Pak hasn't lost a single person in the war which is not true and they are covering ti like that.

But Defense ministry better make certain things available.
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This is not ‘71. The social media and media in general these days won’t allow it to happen

Pakistan establishment could not keep a low level PTM protest under the wraps and you think they can bid this?
 
Slog said:
This is not ‘71. The social media and media in general these days won’t allow it to happen

Pakistan establishment could not keep a low level PTM protest under the wraps and you think they can bid this?
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So how many in Pak defense you know have died? Are you saying since yesterday not a single Pakistani jawan has died? Coz it feels that way right now.
 
JaDed said:
So how many in Pak defense you know have died? Are you saying since yesterday not a single Pakistani jawan has died? Coz it feels that way right now.
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No Pakistani (or any human for that matter) due to air strikes

But 4-5 people apparently have died at the border skirmishes (most likely civilians but unsure tbh)
 
Slog said:
No Pakistani (or any human for that matter) due to air strikes

But 4-5 people apparently have died at the border skirmishes (most likely civilians but unsure tbh)
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Exactly my point :) , you think only civilians have died but do you believe that logically? Which is fair I believe IAF's version too in that regard.
 
JaDed said:
Exactly my point :) , you think only civilians have died but do you believe that logically? Which is fair I believe IAF's version too in that regard.
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You are mixing up 2 different events. There was no casualty in IAF Strike yesterday that is a confirm news but after that the clashes on LoC started last evening and yes you can claim civilian and soldiers from our side both died in it but the thing is India big claim was about Surgical strike right? Not the events on LoC after the strike
 
WebGuru said:
You are mixing up 2 different events. There was no casualty in IAF Strike yesterday that is a confirm news but after that the clashes on LoC started last evening and yes you can claim civilian and soldiers from our side both died in it but the thing is India big claim was about Surgical strike right? Not the events on LoC after the strike
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True , but is there any report of any Pak defense personnel dying,even one like after Loc or anything.
 
JaDed said:
True , but is there any report of any Pak defense personnel dying,even one like after Loc or anything.
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None and there are also no reports of any indian soldier dying except the jets going down and pilot being arrested (and the other crash) right? Pakistan didn't claim attacking any indian civilian area or military posts.
 
WebGuru said:
None and there are also no reports of any indian soldier dying except the jets going down and pilot being arrested (and the other crash) right? Pakistan didn't claim attacking any indian civilian area or military posts.
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True..atleast in terms of information and this age Pak is up imho but reality we can expect only later, and tbh this has always been the case with Indo-Pak wars.
 
India has a defence budget 10 times that of Pakistan, yet when I was looking at the size of the army, the equipment, tanks, weaponry, fighter and naval plans, there is no earth shattering disparity between the nations. Wth do they do with all that money? I suspect corruption of catastrophic proportions
 
Savak said:
India has a defence budget 10 times that of Pakistan, yet when I was looking at the size of the army, the equipment, tanks, weaponry, fighter and naval plans, there is no earth shattering disparity between the nations. Wth do they do with all that money? I suspect corruption of catastrophic proportions
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I was stunned by their airforce and their planes. Where have they been spending all that dough on???
 
Savak said:
India has a defence budget 10 times that of Pakistan, yet when I was looking at the size of the army, the equipment, tanks, weaponry, fighter and naval plans, there is no earth shattering disparity between the nations. Wth do they do with all that money? I suspect corruption of catastrophic proportions
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They have a larger naval force because of the size of their coast. The disparity is mostly in the number of active soldiers. The rest Pakistan can match India punch for punch.


Also most defense analyst predict that a defensive army only has to be about 1/3 of offensive army to have even standing.
 
Varun said:
Please. It's the Indian Air Force and has nothing to do with the BJP or Congress - this is the Arnab tactic.

They lose planes by the dozens, fly MiG-21s by the 100s in 2019, send them to the frontlines, get our pilots captured and then strategically leak stories to the media hankering for every piece of foreign equipment ever manufactured.

Please join me in dissing these guys. They are gobbling your and my tax money with precious little to show for it. Criticizing them may make them improve.
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Dude we are still a 3rd world country. We fight with what we got. 1000s of Indians die everyday due to lack of medical facilities, we don't care about that but we care when a fighter pilot gets captured because he flew an outdated Fighter Jet. Again, it all comes to one thing, ego and insecurity. Sorry, this is the budget we have, this is what we can afford. If US provides 500 F-35s and 50 B2 bombers to Pakistan and says "DIL DIL PAKISTAN" what you gonna do ? Pak is fighting with what they got, we gotta fight with what we got. It's simple brother.
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
My opinion might be an unpopular here in this regard to some Indians (and Pakistanis): but India (and Pakistan) shouldn't spend any further in buying military hardware :facepalm:

As the Pakistani military spokesperson said: the fact that 2 Indian planes crashed is not a cause of celebration for Pakistan.

This drama will die out soon, T-1day to elections! Then the warmongers will fall to sleep until next elections.
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I can assure you its not ending so easily. The brutal embarrassment faced by the Indian pilot by the mob shall remain in the mind of the Indian nationalists and extremists forever.
 
JaDed said:
Lot of people are gonna ask for the photo , in this scenario the only thing I would be giving the benefit of the doubt to Ministry spokerperson is that Pak never admits anything till the end of war and they will switch stories then,I'm sure they even tried to make 1971 look good, and right now it does feel like Pak hasn't lost a single person in the war which is not true and they are covering ti like that.

But Defense ministry better make certain things available.
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Look for statement from IAF and no one else. If it is true, IAF will announce it and if any other joker announces it then it is fake. Don't trust the Indian Army, only Trust the IAF and NAVY. Also wait till they confirm, they take their own time to confirm and make sure. Air Force is elite all around the world, death of a pilot, natural or killed in action will not be hidden. Same goes for a missing aircraft. Eventually PAF or IAF will have to admit. They may do it when things are calmer and less attention is on, but any damage to Air Force will be addressed.
 
The last two days have shown that the Pakistani pilots are far better than their Indian counterparts. In the event of a war, the skies will be green.
 
Bilal7 said:
The last two days have shown that the Pakistani pilots are far better than their Indian counterparts. In the event of a war, the skies will be green.
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I am not too sure based on reading the responses of posters here.

Highly unlikely PAF will prevail in an actual war where IAF goes full fledged.

Anyways don't want to turn this into a comparison contest.
 
JaDed said:
True , but is there any report of any Pak defense personnel dying,even one like after Loc or anything.
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Only minor ones like a couple of soldiers being injured. However, Indian fire killed two innocent children which is absolutely disgusting.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I am not too sure based on reading the responses of posters here.

Highly unlikely PAF will prevail in an actual war where IAF goes full fledged.

Anyways don't want to turn this into a comparison contest.
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Well, unlike you, I have evidence to back up my claim. Abhi will testify as much, I think.

The Pakistani pilots invaded Indian airspace, proved their point, feigned a retreat and then downed the Indian plane as soon as they entered Pakistani airspace.

The feigned retreat has always been a highly difficult tactic to pull off and the fact that these pilots did so in such expert fashion tells you all you need to know.
 
Bilal7 said:
Well, unlike you, I have evidence to back up my claim. Abhi will testify as much, I think.

The Pakistani pilots invaded Indian airspace, proved their point, feigned a retreat and then downed the Indian plane as soon as they entered Pakistani airspace.

The feigned retreat has always been a highly difficult tactic to pull off and the fact that these pilots did so in such expert fashion tells you all you need to know.
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And they bagged a wing commander at that. Not a rookie.
 
As far as the JF-17 goes,I do believe it is an excellent fighter yet it's hard to say if it's better than a SU-30 without confirmation of the kill.

I am amazed India hasn't replaced it's Mig-21s with something else by now. I know they were debating between the Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon, but once the contract had been done they shold have made getting the planes into their active arsenal a priority. The Pakistani F-7PG is essentially equivalent to the Bison and they're steadily getting phased out by the JF-17.
 
Bilal7 said:
Well, unlike you, I have evidence to back up my claim. Abhi will testify as much, I think.

The Pakistani pilots invaded Indian airspace, proved their point, feigned a retreat and then downed the Indian plane as soon as they entered Pakistani airspace.

The feigned retreat has always been a highly difficult tactic to pull off and the fact that these pilots did so in such expert fashion tells you all you need to know.
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This is difficult because you have to give the impression of being weak, disorganized and there for the taking and then time it just right to turn around, coordinate and take down a strong enemy (since a weak enemy won't really pursue). Had the PAF downed the IAF jets in Indian territory, it would have been an act of war. Had their retreat been too quick, the IAF might not have pursued. Had it been too slow, they would have been the ones captured or worse. They pulled it off perfectly, MashAllah.

The Mongols and many Muslim armies, particularly the Mamelukes, used this to completely rout enemy cavalry. An age-old tactic but a brutally effective one.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I am not too sure based on reading the responses of posters here.

Highly unlikely PAF will prevail in an actual war where IAF goes full fledged.

Anyways don't want to turn this into a comparison contest.
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bro, if IAF goes full fledged, thn they will see more surprises .. ;)
Pakistan knows how to defend its soil very well..
 
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Why do Indians focus on conspiracy theories more and not focus on the actual people involved? Context is Pehalgam and Air India
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What could have caused Air India Flight AI171 to crash?
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US sends back 205 illegal Indian immigrants aboard US Air Force’s C-17 Aircraft, tariff whip next
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Bhaijaan
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