The Israeli plane in Pakistan controversy

[MenInG]

Information Minister Fawad Chaudhry on Saturday said the country would not negotiate in secret with either Israel or India after sections of the media reported the alleged arrival of an ‘Israeli’ business jet at Islamabad International Airport (IIA).

Reports emerged on social media on Friday evening regarding the presence of a suspected Israeli aircraft at Islamabad airport. The aircraft reportedly spent 10 hours at the airport. The information was obtained by flight tracking website Flight Radar.


“We will not negotiate secretly with either Modi or Israel,” the information minister said on Twitter in a reply to PML-N leader Ahsan Iqbal’s tweet asking for clarification regarding reports of an Israeli official’s visit.

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) also denied reports of the presence of an Israeli aircraft in Pakistani airspace or at any of the country’s airports and termed the reports “totally baseless”.

Speculation was rife after an Israeli journalist tweeted that an Israeli business jet flew from Tel Aviv to Islamabad on a cleared flight plan after making a brief stopover at Amman.

In a further series of tweets, the journalist clarified that he was not 100 per cent sure if the plane landed in Islamabad.

He added that the plane, after taking off from Tel Aviv and making a stopover in Amman, switched over to a different air traffic control (ATC) frequency and overflew the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The aircraft’s track was lost over the Gulf of Oman. It later reappeared on Flight Radar and was descending towards Islamabad using the same ATC frequency.

After descending to 20,000 feet from an altitude of 40,000 feet, the plane disappeared from the flight tracking website again. It later reappeared 10 hours later heading south-west from Islamabad on the same track back to Amman and then to Tel Aviv.


The aircraft in question was a Canadian manufactured Bombardier Global Express with the serial number 9394, reported BBC Urdu. It was registered on February 22. 2017, in the self-governing British territory of Isle of Man. It is registered to a company called Multibird Overseas Ltd.

As the two countries do not maintain diplomatic relations, aircraft registered in either country cannot enter each other’s airspace. The bilateral relations between Pakistan and Israel have varied between non-recognition to some cooperation during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/183508...says-fawad-reports-israeli-aircraft-pakistan/

 

[MenInG]

ISLAMABAD: The government on Saturday strongly denied that a private business jet flew to Islamabad from Tel Aviv (Israel) via Amman (Jordan) and went back, but opposition parties, dissatisfied with official clarifications, called for a “convincing explanation” on the matter.

The editor of Israeli newspaper Haaretz’s English edition, Ami Scharf, started the controversy by claiming in a tweet that the jet travelled to Islamabad from Tel Aviv and remained on ground in Pakistani capital for nearly 10 hours. He said the jet made a brief stopover in Amman on the way to Islamabad because of which it got a new call sign and became an Amman-Islamabad flight.

It is claimed that the aircraft bearing tail number M-ULTI landed in Islamabad on Oct 24 at 5:40am. The journalist, citing data of flight tracking website flightradar24, said the plane descended from 40,000 feet to 20,000ft near Islamabad before going out of coverage. The aircraft reappeared 10 hours later heading south-west from Islamabad. It followed the same flight path for the return journey making a landing in Amman and then taking off for Tel Aviv.

The mysterious trip happened a day before Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made the first visit to Oman by an Israeli premier in over 20 years. That visit too was kept secret till Mr Netanyahu tweeted a video of a meeting and reception in Amman.

A spokesman for the Civil Aviation Authority rejected the claim about a private jet that originated its flight from Tel Aviv visiting Islamabad and said there was no truth in any Israeli aeroplane landing at any Pakistani airport.

Pakistan does not recognise Israel and, therefore, doesn’t have diplomatic relations with it. Therefore, the landing of an Israeli aircraft at a Pakistani airport, except for emergencies, would be highly unlikely. However, it is important to note that the aircraft is registered in the Isle of Man, but is operated out of Ben Gurion for chartered flights.

Information Minister Fawad Chaudhry said the claim was a conspiracy to sabotage the Black Day being observed to condemn Indian atrocities in occupied Kashmir and discredit the Pakistan government and state institutions before the public.

That led to an exchange of interesting arguments on Twitter between Mr Chaudhry and Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz leader Ahsan Iqbal when the latter asked the government to “explain the exact situation”.

The minister sharply hit back saying, “Imran Khan is neither Nawaz Sharif nor does his cabinet have fake Aristotles. We will not hold secret dialogue with Modi and nor would do so with Israel.” Mr Iqbal responded to the tweet saying the way information minister had angrily reacted showed “there is something fishy”.

In Multan, Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi also said the Israeli plane story was baseless.

On the other hand, Pakistan People’s Party vice president Sherry Rehman said the government should explain who came in the aircraft. The decisions that would be taken without taking the nation into confidence would not be acceptable, she said.

Jamiat Ulema-i-Islam (Fazl) chief Maulana Fazlur Rehman said the aircraft story vindicated their stance about the incumbent government.

As the government clarifications came in and the opposition criticism grew, Mr Scharf put out more details. “As my previous post caused uproar in Pakistan, here are all the details I have, and have not...” he tweeted. He then gave the time when the aircraft began it descent into Islamabad and the registration details of the jet.

He further said: “Pakistan government issues denial. I’m sure @flightradar24 can tell what was final altitude and when landed. But I assume they won’t”.

Analysts questioned the motives of the Israeli journalist behind making the claim.

At the end of the day, Mr Scharf himself put the authenticity of his own claim to question by saying he was not sure if the plane landed at Islamabad and might have just flown over the city. But, at the same time, he noted that there was no point in descending from 40,000 feet to 20,000ft over Islamabad if the aircraft were to continue its journey further north, where the mountains were very high.

Pakistan and Israel have long maintained undeclared contacts at lower level and the only known interaction took place on Sept 1, 2005 between the then foreign minister Khurshid Kasuri and his Israeli counterpart Silvan Shalom.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1441902/uproar-over-claim-about-israeli-jet-landing-in-islamabad

 

[Varun]

Good stuff, Pakistan.

Get rid of the mystery - Israel is just another one of 194 countries out there. Be it your heroes (China, Saudi) or your enemies (India, USA), they all do business with it to mutual benefit. Why should you be different?

See the light.

 

[enkidu_]

Pakistan not going to establish any ties with Israel: President

President Dr. Arif Alvi arrived in Istanbul on a three-day visit to Turkey today on the invitation of his Turkish counterpart Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

During his stay in Turkey, the President will address the inaugural ceremony of new International Airport of Istanbul.

Presidents and Prime Ministers of several other countries will also participate in the ceremony.

President Dr. Arif Alvi is also expected to hold bilateral meetings with his Turkish counterpart and leaders of other countries on the occasion.

Earlier, talking to newsmen at Islamabad International Airport before his departure, the President said Turkey is an important friend of Pakistan, which has always supported us on all issues, including Kashmir.

He said besides Saudi Arabia, we will also invite other friendly countries to invest in the country.

To a question, the President termed reports of landing of an Israeli aircraft in Pakistan baseless and unfounded. He said Pakistan is not going to establish any ties with Israel.

Pursuing the government's ongoing austerity drive, the president opted to travel through commercial flight.

Setting aside the protocol, the president himself got his luggage security screened and went through the immigration process after awaiting his turn in the queue.

http://www.radio.gov.pk/28-10-2018/president-leaves-for-turkey-today

 

[Hitman]

Funny, Arab countries have seen the light and have developed ties with Israel. But Pakistan doesn't follow suit because of religious sentiments.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Funny, Arab countries have seen the light and have developed ties with Israel. But Pakistan doesn't follow suit because of religious sentiments.

Do Arab countries publicly declare their dealings with Israel? Genuine question, I don't know the answer to this.

 

[enkidu_]

Funny, Arab countries have seen the light and have developed ties with Israel. But Pakistan doesn't follow suit because of religious sentiments.

Which Arab countries out the 22 sitting in the Arab league ?

And no masses from any Arab country would agree with this, independently of what their unelected "leaders" do.

 

[DRsohail]

Another fake propaganda by fake arsitotle and company [MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION]

 

[Varun]

Which Arab countries out the 22 sitting in the Arab league ?

Nobody gives a hoot about the Arab league. The only Arab powers that matter - including Saudi Arabia and the UAE, and Egypt if you want to consider them have tilted towards Israel to varying degrees and one would have to be living under a rock to acknowledge otherwise.

 

[enkidu_]

Nobody gives a hoot about the Arab league. The only Arab powers that matter - including Saudi Arabia and the UAE, and Egypt if you want to consider them have tilted towards Israel to varying degrees and one would have to be living under a rock to acknowledge otherwise.

So 3 countries out of 22 without the support of their peoples have become pro "Israel" ?

Iran too was pro 'Israel", before the Shah was kicked out.

The Arab and more generally Muslim masses will never ever be pro "Israel".

 

[Greenstorm]

Funny, Arab countries have seen the light and have developed ties with Israel. But Pakistan doesn't follow suit because of religious sentiments.

Puppet Arab governments can do whatever they like. Why should that effect our policy regarding Israel ?

 

[Bewal Express]

Another fake propaganda by fake arsitotle and company [MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION]

As the hour of accountability approaches these crooks, they are releasing fake stories everyday. They have bankrupted the country and then blamed IK for it, but people have started to see through it and IA, these crooks will be history.

 

[PakLFC]

Nothing happened. It is just a means to defame IK's government by his internal and external enemies. No coincidence that this fake claim occurred on Kashmir Black Day.

 

[Varun]

So 3 countries out of 22 without the support of their peoples have become pro "Israel" ?

Iran too was pro 'Israel", before the Shah was kicked out.

The Arab and more generally Muslim masses will never ever be pro "Israel".

If they are anti-Israel, why are Israel still around for the better part of 70 years? It's 22 versus 1.

Exactly. The Arab countries that matter prefer the status quo. Their populations are too dumb to care, and too feeble to do anything about it.

 

[enkidu_]

If they are anti-Israel, why are Israel still around for the better part of 70 years? It's 22 versus 1.

Exactly. The Arab countries that matter prefer the status quo. Their populations are too dumb to care, and too feeble to do anything about it.

Because they have the US, perhaps you missed a season, but the US is more or less enslaved to the Jewish lobby (see AIPAC). There's so much literature on this that it'd be insulting to your intelligence to give you some tips there.

And many Latin crusaders' states lasted more than a century, Arabs will just have to wait the right time to strike Israel and the collaborators will be at best cursed, at worst lynched.

 

[Bewal Express]

Nothing happened. It is just a means to defame IK's government by his internal and external enemies. No coincidence that this fake claim occurred on Kashmir Black Day.

Nooras and Israel joining forces- what a surprise.

 

[Varun]

Because they have the US, perhaps you missed a season, but the US is more or less enslaved to the Jewish lobby (see AIPAC). There's so much literature on this that it'd be insulting to your intelligence to give you some tips there.

So that's 22 vs 2. Your Arab overlords are the perennial losers here and there is no second guessing this.

Feel free to live in hope.

 

[enkidu_]

So that's 22 vs 2. Your Arab overlords are the perennial losers here and there is no second guessing this.

Feel free to live in hope.

It's not hope but history : your and Americans' Jewish overlords will run out of steam pretty soon (already the secular are being spatially eaten by the haredim, who refuse military service for religious motives, it's all demographics), and then the Arabs will do what they did with the Latin crusaders' states, which seemed even more perennial back in the 1100s/1200s.

 

[Varun]

It's not hope but history : your and Americans' Jewish overlords will run out of steam pretty soon (already the secular are being spatially eaten by the haredim, who refuse military service for religious motives, it's all demographics), and then the Arabs will do what they did with the Latin crusaders' states, which seemed even more perennial back in the 1100s/1200s.

It only proves that the Arabs are a loser's brigade who will then lose to somebody else, and then spent another century hyperventilating and hoping for a prophecy with no timeline to reveal itself.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If they are anti-Israel, why are Israel still around for the better part of 70 years? It's 22 versus 1.

Exactly. The Arab countries that matter prefer the status quo. Their populations are too dumb to care, and too feeble to do anything about it.

Aren't those countries you mentioned as recognising Israel dictatorships? Would that not have a lot to do with their people being too feeble to do anything about it?

FWIW, I don't have any problem with any country having good relations with whichever country they want if that is representative of their public wishes.

 

[Varun]

Aren't those countries you mentioned as recognising Israel dictatorships? Would that not have a lot to do with their people being too feeble to do anything about it?

Indeed. The people - as we've seen in Egypt and in other occasions during the Arab spring are too feeble to definitively overthrow said governments. If their true desire is to thwart Israel, they might as well aim to go to the moon.

 

[enkidu_]

It only proves that the Arabs are a loser's brigade who will then lose to somebody else, and then spent another century hyperventilating and hoping for a prophecy with no timeline to reveal itself.

There have not been bigger losers than Jews, they have occupied their very own capital, Jerusalem, only for 200 odd years, otherwise it was all Canaanites, Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Romans-Byzantines, Arabs, Ottomans and British. The 20th century is an outlier in Jewish history, and even more so Israel's militantism thanks to the US. They'll soon get back to their old glories and Arabs - who have surpassed Rome at its apex under Trajan in less than 100 years, leaving a civilizational legacy in many regions of the world, incl. in your own country - will go back to theirs as well.

But you don't worry much, what you need to know atm is that 2-3 head of states without much popular consensus becoming pro "Israel" doesn't change the wider equation.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Indeed. The people - as we've seen in Egypt and in other occasions during the Arab spring are too feeble to definitively overthrow said governments. If their true desire is to thwart Israel, they might as well aim to go to the moon.

Overthrowing a govt that can call on a powerful military machine is not as easy as you make it sound, I would have thought Syria and Egypt are good examples of how much bloodshed can be the result of popular uprisings which get brutally put down by the military.

Pakistan is a democracy anyway, if they wish to make it public that they want to open friendly dialogue with Israel, there is nothing to stop them. They are there to serve the people's wishes after all.

 

[slipcatch]

If this doesn’t work for Mulana Diesel and Nooras then next time then it’ll be Netanyahu himself landed the plane in new Islamabad Airport.

 

[Braveheart]

In this topsy turvey world of Geo-Politics, why not deal with Israel openly?
After all, we are currently dealing with the despots of the KSA.

 

[Syed1]

Funny, Arab countries have seen the light and have developed ties with Israel. But Pakistan doesn't follow suit because of religious sentiments.

We do not have monarchy in our country. We are a democracy, albeit a fledgling one, but still a democracy. Overwhelming majority of our people do not want anything to do with Israel and that is reflected in the state policy.

 

[Syed1]

Also the countries that are developing "ties" with Israel are too weak to defend themselves and are probably scared of Israel's military might. Not the case with Iran or Pakistan.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

It’s funny how ppl bash gulf countries every day for their lack of democracy and then have the balls to refer to them as the ones who have ‘seen the light’. If I were given the option of having diplomatic relations with some apartheid states (because of the geopolitical necessities) or all apartheid states (for the sake of consistency) i know which option I will choose.

 

[Varun]

It’s funny how ppl bash gulf countries every day for their lack of democracy and then have the balls to refer to them as the ones who have ‘seen the light’. If I were given the option of having diplomatic relations with some apartheid states (because of the geopolitical necessities) or all apartheid states (for the sake of consistency) i know which option I will choose.

So what are the geo-political reasons for Pakistan's warm relations with Saudi Arabia in your opinion?

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

So what are the geo-political reasons for Pakistan's warm relations with Saudi Arabia in your opinion?

You know.

 

[Mamoon]

The Arab’s woke up after the disastrous Six Day War, and the reality check that Gamal Nasser suffered combined with his other flop fantasies of Arab nationalism opened the eyes of the Arab countries and they have generally stayed clear of sticking their finger in the mess that is the Palestine-Israel conflict.

As a result, they have been able to broker fruitful relationships with progressive world and have been able to develop at a rapid rate. If it were left to rhetorical leaders like Nasser, the Middle East (excluding Levant) would have been in turmoil today.

Pakistan will also learn its lesson, a harsh lesson. They will one day realize that fighting other people’s wars leads to no good, and I hope it is not too late by then.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

The Arab’s woke up after the disastrous Six Day War, and the reality check that Gamal Nasser suffered combined with his other flop fantasies of Arab nationalism opened the eyes of the Arab countries and they have generally stayed clear of sticking their finger in the mess that is the Palestine-Israel conflict.

As a result, they have been able to broker fruitful relationships with progressive world and have been able to develop at a rapid rate. If it were left to rhetorical leaders like Nasser, the Middle East (excluding Levant) would have been in turmoil today.

Pakistan will also learn its lesson, a harsh lesson. They will one day realize that fighting other people’s wars leads to no good, and I hope it is not too late by then.

We are not fighting any wars against Israel.

 

[slipcatch]

The Arab’s woke up after the disastrous Six Day War, and the reality check that Gamal Nasser suffered combined with his other flop fantasies of Arab nationalism opened the eyes of the Arab countries and they have generally stayed clear of sticking their finger in the mess that is the Palestine-Israel conflict.

As a result, they have been able to broker fruitful relationships with progressive world and have been able to develop at a rapid rate. If it were left to rhetorical leaders like Nasser, the Middle East (excluding Levant) would have been in turmoil today.

Pakistan will also learn its lesson, a harsh lesson. They will one day realize that fighting other people’s wars leads to no good, and I hope it is not too late by then.

The elected PM of Pakistan (a fascist, according to you) has said this on multiple occasion and majority of Pakistani agree with him.

Pakistan will never fight any other country’s war in future, prime minister Imran Khan said Thursday, asserting that he was against the war from the very beginning and his government’s foreign policy will be in the best interest of the nation.

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/asia/top-...-other-country’s-war-pm-imran-khan/ar-BBMYV4y

 

[Mamoon]

We are not fighting any wars against Israel.

No, but we are still fighting other people's wars.

 

[KingKhanWC]

No, but we are still fighting other people's wars.

You're more Indian than Pakistani but ok lets play along, whose wars is Pakistan fighting?

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

No, but we are still fighting other people's wars.

What war?

 

[Minnowbasher]

People who think it is simply okay to have relations with Israel don't understand what is going on. Israel has murdered thousands of thousands of innocent muslims. Are we supposed to not bother about them but rather selfishly support Israel. We are one ummah, we need to learn to stick together rather than fight each other and support each other's enemies. We also don't need Israel. It's not like they are our neighbour or anything. We aren't their enemy buy aren't friends with them either.

 

[gazza619]

People who think it is simply okay to have relations with Israel don't understand what is going on. Israel has murdered thousands of thousands of innocent muslims. Are we supposed to not bother about them but rather selfishly support Israel. We are one ummah, we need to learn to stick together rather than fight each other and support each other's enemies. We also don't need Israel. It's not like they are our neighbour or anything. We aren't their enemy buy aren't friends with them either.

I am not Israel supporter but there are many muslim countries who are also killing muslims. We dont seem to have any problems serving ties with them?

 

[KingKhanWC]

I am not Israel supporter but there are many muslim countries who are also killing muslims. We dont seem to have any problems serving ties with them?

Poor argument.

Israel kills Muslims because they are Muslims in what they feel is their Jewish holy land. Other nations have conflicts inc Muslim nations with other Muslim nations or Muslim people because of political or power reasons.

 

[ElRaja]

Poor argument.

Israel kills Muslims because they are Muslims in what they feel is their Jewish holy land. Other nations have conflicts inc Muslim nations with other Muslim nations or Muslim people because of political or power reasons.

boiled down to its essence the israel palestine conflict is fundamentally political too.

israel fully knows jews will pbly end up being a minority in a combined israel palestine, and will be considerably demographically marginalised in israel proper in a few decades.

the recently passed jewish state laws marginalise non muslim minorities equivalently, and wars with lebanon have shown there is little love lost between the israeli state and lebanese christians.

its all different facets of the same geo-political dice when it comes to any conflicts in that region.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

It’s ironic that in a week where the Sultan of Oman hosted the Israeli PM, where an Israeli minister toured Abu Dhabi’s grand mosque, where another Israeli minister visited Dubai, and where Israel’s ties with nations like Egypt and Saudi Arabia are at their highest level in history Pakistanis are getting their knickers in a twist over whether or not an Israeli plane landed in Pakistan.

 

[Syed1]

It’s ironic that in a week where the Sultan of Oman hosted the Israeli PM, where an Israeli minister toured Abu Dhabi’s grand mosque, where another Israeli minister visited Dubai, and where Israel’s ties with nations like Egypt and Saudi Arabia are at their highest level in history Pakistanis are getting their knickers in a twist over whether or not an Israeli plane landed in Pakistan.

A. The Civil Aviation Authority confirmed that there was no Israeli plane that landed in Pakistan
B. This is fake and fabricated news
C. 99% of Muslim countries that our developing ties with Israel are monarchies
D. Pakistan is democratic country where majority do not want any ties with Israel
E. State policy in democratic countries reflects the will of majority of the people
F. The people getting their knickers in a twist are people who want Pakistan to have relations with devil Israel

 

[gazza619]

Poor argument.

Israel kills Muslims because they are Muslims in what they feel is their Jewish holy land. Other nations have conflicts inc Muslim nations with other Muslim nations or Muslim people because of political or power reasons.

So it is perfectly valid if you kill muslims for political reasons or power?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It’s ironic that in a week where the Sultan of Oman hosted the Israeli PM, where an Israeli minister toured Abu Dhabi’s grand mosque, where another Israeli minister visited Dubai, and where Israel’s ties with nations like Egypt and Saudi Arabia are at their highest level in history Pakistanis are getting their knickers in a twist over whether or not an Israeli plane landed in Pakistan.

As Syed1 has pointed out in answer to your post, all those countries you mention are either monarchies or dictatorships who aren't answerable to their public. Perhaps Pakistan should build relations with Israel, perhaps they shouldn't, but ultimately it should be the wishes of the people of Pakistan, whether we like it or not. That is the whole point of democracy.

 

[KingKhanWC]

boiled down to its essence the israel palestine conflict is fundamentally political too.

israel fully knows jews will pbly end up being a minority in a combined israel palestine, and will be considerably demographically marginalised in israel proper in a few decades.

the recently passed jewish state laws marginalise non muslim minorities equivalently, and wars with lebanon have shown there is little love lost between the israeli state and lebanese christians.

its all different facets of the same geo-political dice when it comes to any conflicts in that region.

They dont like the Christians in the area too. Jews suffered in Europe, they were given land far away, it's a Jewish state, it has laws for Jews and then laws for others. It continues to take land because their holy book says it's theirs. You can call it political and religious but you cannot dismiss the religious aspect of this conflict.

So it is perfectly valid if you kill muslims for political reasons or power?

They aren't being killed because they are Muslims.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It’s ironic that in a week where the Sultan of Oman hosted the Israeli PM, where an Israeli minister toured Abu Dhabi’s grand mosque, where another Israeli minister visited Dubai, and where Israel’s ties with nations like Egypt and Saudi Arabia are at their highest level in history Pakistanis are getting their knickers in a twist over whether or not an Israeli plane landed in Pakistan.

Pakistani is not a puppet state, once you understand this the confusion will go.