The ODI dot-ball menace in Pakistan batting...

[MenInG]

Gets worse and worse every time we look at it:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718200896591437865

What is the solution?

Should we treat each game as 2 T20 and 1 T10 game?

 

[Usman Chadda]

Atleast close to or more than half the overs in every game.

Just not good enough.

We have similar issues in T20 cricket, they haven’t been exposed as of yet.

 

[mominsaigol]

Gets worse and worse every time we look at it:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718200896591437865

What is the solution?

Should we treat each game as 2 T20 and 1 T10 game?

Solution is very simple.

As iron man said in Avengers.

Black Widow: We need a plan of attack

Iron Man: I have a plan: Attack.

as I said spineless players minus fakhar, chacha and saud

 

[AAli98]

Ricky ponting says when the bowler releases the ball in my mind 1st thought is 6 then 4 then 3 then 2 then 1.

Abdula & imam are hell bent in dead batting everything regardless of delivery !!

 

[WengerOut]

Need other teams stats to form an opinion.

 

[BouncerGuy]

These dot balls have always been the problem with the Pakistani team. It is the mentality of these players, can't change much.

 

[mominsaigol]

Ricky ponting says when the bowler releases the ball in my mind 1st thought is 6 then 4 then 3 then 2 then 1.

Abdula & imam are hell bent in dead batting everything regardless of delivery !!

That's almost every player besides Pakistan.

Every batsmen wants to score as much as possible. Pakistan just want their 50's

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Our openers don't make the most of the powerplay first and in the middle overs, we tend to consume too many dot balls. This leads to mounting pressure towards the end of the innings, resulting in the loss of quick wickets.

 

[ArabKnight]

Atleast close to or more than half the overs in every game.

Just not good enough.

We have similar issues in T20 cricket, they haven’t been exposed as of yet.

That’s what happens when you have corrupt board and racism.

 

[emranabbas]

technically we have played 23 overs of maiden vs Netherlands sri lanka and Afghanistan

 

[kingusama92]

It starts at the top.

I refuse to believe this is just down to the players. It's a selection/coaching issue, which is then worsened by a meek captain like Babar.

If you select defensive players as openers, you are going to get defensive results. This is why roles are important in cricket including spending a few years finding/developing aggressive batsmen. The fact Imam kept getting selected is a clear example of a think tank that approved a slower batting strategy. Even at his best, he's too slow.

We often hear about examples like Khushidil, Haider Ali, and Asif Ali, but that's not a good enough reason to go into a shell as selectors/captain and stop trying. You have to keep selecting like-minded aggressive players until you find someone who clicks.

The way they have selected this WC team means there is only one way of winning. You need your bowling attack to dominate. This was fine with Naseem and a 100% Shaheen but not now with a depleted attack.

It's just poor planning but that's quite common in Pakistani cricket.

 

[Suleiman]

When you tune into PTV or whatever streaming a Pakistani domestic game, you will know why this is the case.

The little things like camera quality, the outlook of the stadium, the pitch let alone the batsmanship and fielding all look like you are back in the 80s or 70s.

Pakistan is still stuck in a bygone era. That’s just how it is. Ramiz Raja and Aamer Sohail would still be in contention today for our team as openers if they were still playing today at 60-70 SR. Seriously.

Just look at us limping to 260-280 in 2023 when 300-360 is the norm

 

[emranabbas]

Just looking at the stats for the recent pakistan cup which is a 50 over format we have players like

Tayab tahir 50 avg and 99 sr
Saim ayub 50 and 100+ sr
Kamran ghulam 145 avg 100+ sr
Mubashir khan 50 avg and 100+ sr

Why have these guys not been given a chance but in the same tournament we have

Iftikhar chacha 31 avg 70 sr
Fakhar zaman 30 avg 80 sr
Khushdil Shah 23 avg 70 sr
Muhammed nawaz 15 avg 93 sr and 114 avg with the ball

Always in the squad some how selection need to be done on merit not select someone and keep them in the squad forever

 

[Visaal-E-Yaar]

Just looking at the stats for the recent pakistan cup which is a 50 over format we have players like

Tayab tahir 50 avg and 99 sr
Saim ayub 50 and 100+ sr
Kamran ghulam 145 avg 100+ sr
Mubashir khan 50 avg and 100+ sr

Why have these guys not been given a chance but in the same tournament we have

Iftikhar chacha 31 avg 70 sr
Fakhar zaman 30 avg 80 sr
Khushdil Shah 23 avg 70 sr
Muhammed nawaz 15 avg 93 sr and 114 avg with the ball

Always in the squad some how selection need to be done on merit not select someone and keep them in the squad forever

Tayyab, saim, azam blah blah they all will fail on international level. Screenshot this of you want. Home pitches are some kind of joke.
We should ban PSL temporarily and focus for good 3 years in domestic cricket. Upgrade your equipments first.

 

[Ali T]

Just looking at the stats for the recent pakistan cup which is a 50 over format we have players like

Tayab tahir 50 avg and 99 sr
Saim ayub 50 and 100+ sr
Kamran ghulam 145 avg 100+ sr
Mubashir khan 50 avg and 100+ sr

Why have these guys not been given a chance but in the same tournament we have

Iftikhar chacha 31 avg 70 sr
Fakhar zaman 30 avg 80 sr
Khushdil Shah 23 avg 70 sr
Muhammed nawaz 15 avg 93 sr and 114 avg with the ball

Always in the squad some how selection need to be done on merit not select someone and keep them in the squad forever

I think after the World Cup Pakistan selectors really need to reconsider and plan for the next 4 years.

We say this after every World Cup so I don't expect things to change all that much as PCB are too short sighted.

 

[jnaveen1980]

So six hitting poor, Singles taking poor. Basically relies on fours. Unlike some other sides Pakistan mostly played on decent batting tracks. Hyderabad, Bangalore, Ahmedabad. Even the chennai on they played was good enough to bat on.

 

[mominsaigol]

Tayyab, saim, azam blah blah they all will fail on international level. Screenshot this of you want. Home pitches are some kind of joke.
We should ban PSL temporarily and focus for good 3 years in domestic cricket. Upgrade your equipments first.

Saim dismantled Afghanistan including rashid in the last t20 series.

The players if given an extended run will succeed.

Problem with Pakistan supporters is that their too narrow minded and want instant results.

Imagine if Indian fans did that? Gill isn't doing too well this WC, have India panicked?

Australia was getting criticised for being a has been team at the start of the cup, have they panicked?

Gotta wait and give extended runs before deciding.

Tayyab, Saim, Kamran are 100x the players that our joke squad is atm like nawaz, Shadab, Imam lol

 

[160KPH]

Saim dismantled Afghanistan including rashid in the last t20 series.

The players if given an extended run will succeed.

Problem with Pakistan supporters is that their too narrow minded and want instant results.

Imagine if Indian fans did that? Gill isn't doing too well this WC, have India panicked?

Australia was getting criticised for being a has been team at the start of the cup, have they panicked?

Gotta wait and give extended runs before deciding.

Tayyab, Saim, Kamran are 100x the players that our joke squad is atm like nawaz, Shadab, Imam lol

I think the three players you listed should definitely slot into our squad as soon as WC is over and be given a chance. Just kind of sucks that we will play so few ODIs the next couple years and I believe none in the next year, gonna be tough for the new guys to get international match practice. Also I like Fakhar Zaman, but it’s probably time to have him score some runs in domestic before rejoining the team as well.

 

[160KPH]

That stat seems bad but doesn’t seem that useful unless we compare it to how many dot balls other teams are scoring this WC. Does anyone have the dot ball percentage for the other teams?

 

[jnaveen1980]

That stat seems bad but doesn’t seem that useful unless we compare it to how many dot balls other teams are scoring this WC. Does anyone have the dot ball percentage for the other teams?

Not all teams played on similar pitches. India/Australia played on a very difficult track in the first game. Infact India had 2 tough tracks. Also they chased lower totals. They could afford that.

India 735/1478 - 49%
Pakistan 823/1693 -48.6%
New zealand 760/1675 - 45%
Australia 834/1650 - 50.5%
South Africa 768/1741 - 44%

The thing about SA is it is not only their dot ball % is less their six hitting is also off the charts. Australia has 61 sixes. Pakistan 32 sixes. Given that Pakistan lacks big hitters in the top 5 their dot ball percentage has to be much lower than others even the top teams. It is more less equal to others.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

ODI should have T20 openers, specialist middle order who generally are good Test players and then t20 pinch hitters.

Pakistan doesn't have any T20 players and don't select the competent ones

 

[mominsaigol]

I think the three players you listed should definitely slot into our squad as soon as WC is over and be given a chance. Just kind of sucks that we will play so few ODIs the next couple years and I believe none in the next year, gonna be tough for the new guys to get international match practice. Also I like Fakhar Zaman, but it’s probably time to have him score some runs in domestic before rejoining the team as well.

We will be playing odi's alot of them. Ct 2025 and wc 2027 is coming bhai.

Teams will be playing alot of tours. And proper A team sides to prepare.

Aus, Eng won't make the same mistake again. Playing b string is good but unless they find a balance like NZ and India did you also gotta give match practise to a string.

So sides will buckle up soon

 

[jeetu]

Its the side effect of playing weaker teams whose bowlers gives alot of boundary balls. So strike rotation is not needed score 280+ totals.

 

[160KPH]

Not all teams played on similar pitches. India/Australia played on a very difficult track in the first game. Infact India had 2 tough tracks. Also they chased lower totals. They could afford that.

India 735/1478 - 49%
Pakistan 823/1693 -48.6%
New zealand 760/1675 - 45%
Australia 834/1650 - 50.5%
South Africa 768/1741 - 44%

The thing about SA is it is not only their dot ball % is less their six hitting is also off the charts. Australia has 61 sixes. Pakistan 32 sixes. Given that Pakistan lacks big hitters in the top 5 their dot ball percentage has to be much lower than others even the top teams. It is more less equal to others.

Thank you for posting the stats. It is definitely made difficult to compare since there’s such varied conditions but it seems from just a first approximation, it’s not so much that Pakistan plays more dot balls than other teams but rather that they probably aren’t punishing the bad ones for maximums and 4’s.

Like you said, that South Africa number is mind boggling considering how good their 6 hitting also is. Insane battling lineup they have.

 

[160KPH]

We will be playing odi's alot of them. Ct 2025 and wc 2027 is coming bhai.

Teams will be playing alot of tours. And proper A team sides to prepare.

Aus, Eng won't make the same mistake again. Playing b string is good but unless they find a balance like NZ and India did you also gotta give match practise to a string.

So sides will buckle up soon

I hope so brother but as of now we have zero schedule ODIs for the entire next year. Our next ODI series is 3 ODI’s against Australia in November of next year. I think what this WC demonstrated was that T20s aren’t the greatest practice for ODIs - it’s a completely different skill. As shown by how different Shadab Khan’s record is in T20s vs ODIs

 

[mominsaigol]

I hope so brother but as of now we have zero schedule ODIs for the entire next year. Our next ODI series is 3 ODI’s against Australia in November of next year. I think what this WC demonstrated was that T20s aren’t the greatest practice for ODIs - it’s a completely different skill. As shown by how different Shadab Khan’s record is in T20s vs ODIs

They'll be more schedule's trust. You will see dramatic shifts very soon.

 

[160KPH]

They'll be more schedule's trust. You will see dramatic shifts very soon.

Gonna be honest, I’m not sure we’ll even have a 2027 ODI World Cup, but we’ll see. I like the format a lot, more so than T20, which to me is just a game I can’t take very seriously. If anything, the trend for the last 10 years has been people caring about ODIs less and less including the players. The streaming numbers right now are basically just held up by the population growth in India.

 

[emranabbas]

Tayyab, saim, azam blah blah they all will fail on international level. Screenshot this of you want. Home pitches are some kind of joke.
We should ban PSL temporarily and focus for good 3 years in domestic cricket. Upgrade your equipments first.

When you go for a new job your employer don't sack you after 2 or 3 days because your rubbish these guys need to be give chances one by one they need to play few series to be judged

Back in the days when we use to play Kenya or zimbabwe we use to rest atleast some players so new guys could get a chance But since recent times every main player has to play against minnows and b c d teams to stat pad .

We don't even give the guys on the bench a chance unless someone is injured

 

[Technics 1210]

The dot ball figures prove the difference between the quota RR approach vs Holistic RR approach, the figures representing the former.

 

[Visaal-E-Yaar]

Saim dismantled Afghanistan including rashid in the last t20 series.

The players if given an extended run will succeed.

Problem with Pakistan supporters is that their too narrow minded and want instant results.

Imagine if Indian fans did that? Gill isn't doing too well this WC, have India panicked?

Australia was getting criticised for being a has been team at the start of the cup, have they panicked?

Gotta wait and give extended runs before deciding.

Tayyab, Saim, Kamran are 100x the players that our joke squad is atm like nawaz, Shadab, Imam lol

I don't know bro when you start watching pakistan cricket but i am watching since 31 years. No matter how many time we replace players sorry but we are in a deep loop.
For example, if we do little search on this forum we will find out what kind of patterns we have in past, creating hype for PSL hack same like we did it for asif ali, khushdil, faheem, mir, dhani, etc etc.
siam, tayyab etc are no different.

Just look at quaid e azam trophy standards, it's a some kind of a lengthy joke in which we can't even laugh.

They will play one fluke little cameo for pakistan and fail in next 10 matches.
We don't want to address problems in base till we will not have any international standard players.
Replace players 1000x times, change captain 100x times sorry but results will be same.

 

[Visaal-E-Yaar]

When you go for a new job your employer don't sack you after 2 or 3 days because your rubbish these guys need to be give chances one by one they need to play few series to be judged

Back in the days when we use to play Kenya or zimbabwe we use to rest atleast some players so new guys could get a chance But since recent times every main player has to play against minnows and b c d teams to stat pad .

We don't even give the guys on the bench a chance unless someone is injured

Lol, no one will give me job if i am that rubbish until i get one by illegal means. i.e, parchi? Friendship? Likeness?
We are way behind in international standards just accept it and look for solutions.
If we do men by men marking with all top 4 teams right now in WC you will find out where we stand in fitness level, game awareness, techniques etc.

We are not serious mate. Only thing important for our rulers is "Power & Money". They don't give a damn.

 

[lazy cricketer]

Tayyab, saim, azam blah blah they all will fail on international level. Screenshot this of you want. Home pitches are some kind of joke.
We should ban PSL temporarily and focus for good 3 years in domestic cricket. Upgrade your equipments first.

kamran and saim wouldn't...tayyab definitely would fail.

we should have given consistent chances to karmran and saim and taken them to india.

one should always select form players and no players that have big names but are terribly out of form.

if a player like fakhar is out of form, send him back in domestic and ask him to score runs. why carry him with you like dead weight??

 

[Visaal-E-Yaar]

kamran and saim wouldn't...tayyab definitely would fail.

we should have given consistent chances to karmran and saim and taken them to india.

one should always select form players and no players that have big names but are terribly out of form.

if a player like fakhar is out of form, send him back in domestic and ask him to score runs. why carry him with you like dead weight??

What did we get out of muhammad haris so far? Lol nothing.

 

[lazy cricketer]

What did we get out of muhammad haris? Lol nothing.

well you can clearly tell from his technique that he is not an opener...he should have been given a chance at number 5 or 6...but Pakistani brainless team management wanted him to be an opener...even his domestic team doesn't use him to open
one example:

BALO vs KP, Pakistan Cup 2022/23, 2nd Semi-Final at Karachi, January 01, 2023 - Full Scorecard

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd Semi-Final, BALO vs KP, Pakistan Cup 2022/23 at State Bank of Pakistan Sports Complex, Karachi dated January 01, 2023.

www.espncricinfo.com

pct are playing players at wrong numbers in playing XI

saud is no number 5 yeah he is scoring runs and at 100 sr but the guy will not score at a quicker rate than that... his real batting position is at number 3 or 4 which are taken by Rizwan and babar.

 

[owenhcricket]

Need other teams stats to form an opinion.

I completely agree. Pakistan have made some good scores in this tournament so it would be crucial seeing the dot balls from other teams. SA and Aus have become bat first power houses but they are very much the exception and not the rule. Pakistan have also done well chasing so I am curious about follow up stats.

 

[Kianig89]

The dot ball issue of Pakistan cricket is inherited, due to lack of fitness players were not agile to rotate the strike add to it having a world class bowling unit masked the issue as opposition was always wary of their attack, but their bowling declined like local rupee and fitness issue surged like the country's inflation, Pakistan has fallen prey to western hands

 

[mominsaigol]

I don't know bro when you start watching pakistan cricket but i am watching since 31 years. No matter how many time we replace players sorry but we are in a deep loop.
For example, if we do little search on this forum we will find out what kind of patterns we have in past, creating hype for PSL hack same like we did it for asif ali, khushdil, faheem, mir, dhani, etc etc.
siam, tayyab etc are no different.

Just look at quaid e azam trophy standards, it's a some kind of a lengthy joke in which we can't even laugh.

They will play one fluke little cameo for pakistan and fail in next 10 matches.
We don't want to address problems in base till we will not have any international standard players.
Replace players 1000x times, change captain 100x times sorry but results will be same.

"I don't know bro when you start watching pakistan cricket but i am watching since 31 years."

I'm not even 31 years old, not even close, I still need a good decade to get their, but I don't get the relevance of this argument?

What does age and experience have anything to do with analytical mindsets and perceptions of game analysis? That only applies in practicality not thinking strategically?

As for the rest of the argument, you're not understanding what I mean by extended runs.

The problem with pcb is the managerial mindset. The management rewards averages and friendships over playing to international standards. It doesn't identify player weaknesses, strengths or tries to get them to improve, Theirs also a lack of fitness criteria In general. Whereas it just doesn't work like that in bcci. In bcci players are selected if they play modern but of they also show signs that they are improving game by game. Alot of thinking is also done to determine which position is best to play for these lads whereas in Pakistan its allways , no I wanna play at my favourite position.

Pcb problem lies in Management. Saim, Tayyab etc, none of these players will ever bloom if this the current management set up. Take these lads to mz and have them play for NZ and you will see them become world class.

 

[hassan918]

It has been a problem with team Pakistan for years. Even today, even though Pakistan chased down the target of 205 runs in the 33rd over. They played 102 dot balls out of the 195 balls they faced.

 

[MenInG]

And it did come to bite us in the end.

 

[asfandyar]

You can easily calculate the non-boundary strike rate in domestics to gauge a newbie's strike rotation capability. Guys like Sharjeel may have 100+ SR, but their dot ball percentage is atrocious.