The Pakistan-Pandora papers connection

[Itachi]

Generally if you are under investigation, you get suspended for a brief period of time or at least you are removed from that position so that the investigation can go without any obstacles that may come.

Its a strange scenario where a cell is formed to investigate yet the heads against whom investigation will carry on, will continue to head.

Seems like a drama to give clean chit regardless what the investigation conclusion may be.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Are you going to extend the benefit of doubt to Modi next time one of his party members or affiliates do or say something stupid ?

I don’t expect you to and it’s fair because the image Modi and rightfully so is as guy who rules with ultimate power and has a say in everything.

Unfortunately excuses for Imran Khan is he didn’t know, he has to fight the system, he is alone in the fight. That sounds like a idealistic small time social worker and not a world leader.

This is not my opinion but an obvious takeaway.

Modi is clearly the leader in hindutva drive in India, he has never stood against it like Imran Khan has stood against corruption. This sort of weak defence of Modi (when Modi wasn't even mentioned in the thread) just shows your own hang ups about your leader, which frankly I am not interested in.

No surprise as usual that Indians and their cheerleaders from Pakistan side of the border are on the same page once again.

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.geo.tv/latest/374230-pandora-papers-the-super-rich-families-and-individuals-of-pakistan

More than a dozen rich families, individuals and business persons have assets, holdings, cash accounts, bonds, equities and mutual funds of five million or above dollars in their offshore companies, revealed the Pandora Papers.

The leaked data has laid bare the financial secrets of the rich and the powerful in Pakistan and around the world.

The Pandora Papers released by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) have revealed startling information about the wealth kept by some individuals or families under the complex web of offshore companies and trusts the world over.

These leaked documents have revealed the names of some super rich families/individuals of Pakistan, who have kept millions of dollars abroad in their offshore companies. Some of them claim they are non-resident taxpayers whereas others say they have already declared their wealth with the authorities concerned in Pakistan.

Again it would also be prudent to mention that not all offshore companies are illegal or made for nefarious reasons. The leaked documents reveal that Lucky Rawji Holdings Limited, registered in the British Virgin Islands, holds 100% shares of a cement company based in Congo, which has an estimated value of $175 million (Rs29.75 billion October). Muhammad Ali Tabba and Sohail Ahmed Tabba are the shareholders and directors of the company along with some other partners.

Furthermore, the documents show that the family is the beneficiary of an offshore company Rossneath Investments Limited. The company’s estimated value of the assets is $132,925,406 ($132.92 million) (Rs22.59 billion) and the source of funds has been described as “inheritance of shareholdings from the family business, Lucky Cement Limited."

The Pandora Papers also reveal that the Tabba family owns another offshore company Calico Finance Limited and Mohammad Sohail Tabba is the beneficial owner of the company. Calico is an investment holding and owns $5.9 million (Rs1 billion) cash and marketable securities.

The Tabba family in their response told The News that LCL Investment Holding Limited (A wholly owned subsidiary of Lucky Cement Limited) holds 50pc shares in Lucky Rawji Holding Limited (LRHL), which was established after permission was granted by the State Bank via their letter No EPD/INT/C-531/12(454)-2014 dated January 31, 2014. Muhammad Ali Tabba and Muhammad Sohail Tabba are the directors of LRHL not the shareholders.

The family further added that Rossneath Investments is only a holding company and holds 22,803,029 shares of Lucky Cement Limited. The only source of income is dividends from the Lucky Cement Limited, which are taxed in Pakistan.

The family further clarified that the Calico Finance Limited does not hold any marketable securities. Regarding declaration of these companies and the assets held by these companies, the Tabba family stated that they are declared under amnesty scheme “Foreign Assets (Declaration and Repatriation) Act, 2018."

As per the leaked documents, Bashir Dawood and Mariyam Dawood are the beneficial owners of a BVI company S Minor Investment Limited. The investment portfolio of the company is held with the Standard Chartered Bank, Singapore, and includes cash accounts, bonds, equities and mutual funds. The estimated value of the assets is US$13.3 million (Rs2.26 billion).

The Pandora Papers show that a British Pakistani individual Mohammad Sharif owns an offshore company Maystone Holdings Limited in the BVI. The company owns Ranchville Equities Limited, which in turn owns property in London, United Kingdom. The estimated value of these assets is GBP 130 million (Rs30.16 billion).

The leaked documents further reveal that Amjed Ali Hussain, CEO of National Glass Industry, LLC, owns an offshore company Dynamic Corporation. The company holds shares in companies in GCC as well as investment in the US equity market. The estimated value of the assets is USis $20 million (Rs3.4 billion).

The documents show that Waseem Mukhtar owns a trust, the Loftus Trust. The purpose of the trust was for succession planning and to hold two existing BVI companies, Singapore property and bankable assets at CS. The value of trust assets is mentioned is US$55 million (Rs9.35 billion), the documents show. Waseem Mukhtar was sent a questionnaire. However, he could not receive the queries because he was visiting some place where there was a network problem.

The Pandora Papers reveal that Shark Steel Limited owns a portfolio of bankable assets and cash worth US$15 to $20 million (Rs3.4 billion). Ms Tehmina Zakaria Ahmed and Aisha Anwar are the beneficial owners of the company. It is not confirmed whether the company or the assets owned by the offshore holding is declared with the Pakistani tax authorities.

Moreover, the leaked documents show that Omer Farooq Kabir Sheikh is one of the beneficial owners of Pearl Overseas Holding Limited registered in the BVI jurisdiction. The company holds an investment portfolio with the Standard Chartered Bank, Singapore, that includes cash accounts, bonds, equities and mutual funds. The estimated value of these assets is US$5 million (Rs850 million).

The Pandora Papers show that Laila Hashwani, part owner of Excide Pakistan Limited, owns a company Seaward Resources Limited. The Seaward is an investment holding company and doing business in the UK. Further details reveal that the source of funding for this company came from inheritance from husband and profits. The estimated value of the assets is GBP16.7 million (Rs2.83 billion).

Similarly, Muhammad Kashif and other family members (ChenOne group) own an offshore company CGI Limited. The estimated value of the company as per the revealed document is AED 13.7 million (Rs630 million). The company deals in trading of different products like furniture, home furnishing, home accessories, leather products and garments.

The ChenOne group, in their response, told The News that the purpose of establishment of this company was to explore the business opportunities in the Gulf market and other global markets during the quota regime period. Currently, the company has no warehouse; the warehouse under question had been sold out against the adjustment of some bank loans.

Naveed Moghis Sheikh and Fozia Moghis Sheikh own an offshore company Blue Monk Investments Inc. The described purpose of the company is to operate a bank account in Bank Julius Baer & Co Ltd in Geneva for parking the proceeds from sale of shares of Imperial Sugar Ltd to a large business group in the Middle East.

The sale has resulted in $40-50 million, which were to be received at the company’s bank account. The News sent a questionnaire to Moghis Sheikh but received no response.

As per the leaked documents, Khalid Adamjee and his family own a trust, Catio Trust, based in Singapore. The trust’s source of wealth is described as “business in trading commodities specifically from supplying chrome ore and cobalt metal over 28-30 years of my business of supplying chrome ore to China/Japan and Cobalt Metal to Pakistan/Korea. I have been able to from time to time take positions on the market whilst trading in these commodities and register the profits in Singapore.”

The leaked documents reveal that the total assets of the trust exceed more than 10 million Singapore dollars (Rs1.25 billion).

Responding to The News questions, Khalid Adamjee said it is true that he owned Catio Trust but it has been closed down. “I am based in Singapore, involved in international commodities trading – products include minerals, ores, metals and chemicals. We buy/source from a variety of different countries including Pakistan, South Africa, Holland, Belgium, Norway, UK, Canada and China….and we sell to a variety of different countries including Pakistan, Germany, Spain, Slovakia, Thailand, China, Japan and South Korea. My family and I have been Permanent Residents of Singapore since 2009. In 2010, I emigrated to Singapore along with my wife and children and we live here. That is why I created a trust in Singapore,” he commented.

To a question about the declaration of the trust and assets held by the trust, he said he has declared all the assets in Catio Trust / Creek Resources Ltd to the tax authorities in Pakistan (FBR).

The leaked documents show a British-Pakistani Peracha family owns a company Limon Holdings Limited. The company owns GBP 10 million (Rs2.32 billion) and it is involved in property development, regeneration of properties for sale and rentals.

Note: The value of these assets in Pak rupees has been determined by Tuesday’s exchange rate

 

[MenInG]

ISLAMABAD: The News journalists, Umar Cheema and Fakhar Durrani, who were the part of the investigative team of Pandora Papers and the Federal Board of Revenue Chairman Dr. Muhammad Ashfaq Ahmed will brief the Senate Standing Committee on Finance over the revelations made in the papers on October 22, The News reported.

According to the details, Senate Standing Committee on Finance Tuesday met under the chairmanship of Senator Talha Mehmood here at the Parliament House, who expressed his anger over the absence of the FBR chairman and finance secretary from the meeting.

Related items
Pandora Papers: Details of over a dozen super rich Pakistani individuals, families revealed
Pandora Papers: Ministers should resign if burden of proof lies with them, says Ali Muhammad
Ex-defence production secretary's wife responds to Pandora Papers' revelation
The Senate committee Tuesday took notice of names of over 700 Pakistanis appearing in the Pandora Papers and expressed its concerns over the flight of capital from the country at a time when the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) was set to scrutinise Pakistan’s position during the ongoing month.

During the meeting, PPP’s Senator Sherry Rehman raised the issue of offshore accounts and the unprecedented upward adjustments in the exchange rate. The panel chairman declared it a matter of great importance and said that the name of Finance Minister Shaukat Tarin was also included in the Pandora Papers. The FBR was asked to come up with full preparation and give a detailed briefing on Pandora Papers.

The panel was informed that the finance secretary was busy in meetings with the Ineternational Monetary Fund (IMF). The committee chairman said the IMF had destroyed Pakistan’s economy.

The standing committee decided to include the issue of Pandora Papers in the agenda of the next meeting, to be held on Oct 22 by summoning the FBR chairman and The News journalists Umar Cheema and Fakhar Durrani, who conducted investigation for the leak.

An FBR senior officer told the panel that if assets were declared, then it was legitimate to have offshore assets.

Sherry Rehman said the Pakistani rupee crossed Rs171 mark against the US dollar, which may reach 180 according to Fitch, current account deficit reached 81%, the FDI declined by 20% during the last months, the trade deficit widened, while petroleum products reached an all-time high in the country, which were resulting in inflation, impacting businesses and causing unemployment.

GEO

 

[IMMY69]

Generally if you are under investigation, you get suspended for a brief period of time or at least you are removed from that position so that the investigation can go without any obstacles that may come.

Its a strange scenario where a cell is formed to investigate yet the heads against whom investigation will carry on, will continue to head.

Seems like a drama to give clean chit regardless what the investigation conclusion may be.

In that case should Boris Johnson resign too?

 

[Major]

IK is the only clean person in PK politics. Let's face it, you are humiliated after your expectations were raised by Cheema and Geo. If Vawda is clean IK wins as it shuts up the critics and if Vawda is a criminal, its Under IK that he will go down. Either way IK has humiliated you and your ilk.

Again, you just show your biasness and will worship anything that Imran does.

first of all the team investigating this would be NAB and we all know the reputation of NAB that only acts against the opposition.. Second, didnt this same PM used to whine about the people whose name come up should resign or be suspended while investigation goes on.

Not easy to walk the talk eh?


The people humiliated are you and your pti fan boys. You lot started calling our PMLN and unexpectedly next day names of ministers came out


PTI is a proven party that benefits from corruption money. seems like a money laundering scheme now

 

[IMMY69]

Again, you just show your biasness and will worship anything that Imran does.

first of all the team investigating this would be NAB and we all know the reputation of NAB that only acts against the opposition.. Second, didnt this same PM used to whine about the people whose name come up should resign or be suspended while investigation goes on.

Not easy to walk the talk eh?


The people humiliated are you and your pti fan boys. You lot started calling our PMLN and unexpectedly next day names of ministers came out


PTI is a proven party that benefits from corruption money. seems like a money laundering scheme now

I'm sorry but your posts actually show your desperation, a support for corruption and betrays your support for crooks.

Since 2018 you snd others like you have continually attacked IK and have looked for any reason to jump on his back so much so that it's become a fight between good vs evil and you can't blame people for jumping firmly to the side of the good.

 

[Napa]

I'm sorry but your posts actually show your desperation, a support for corruption and betrays your support for crooks.

Since 2018 you snd others like you have continually attacked IK and have looked for any reason to jump on his back so much so that it's become a fight between good vs evil and you can't blame people for jumping firmly to the side of the good.

For you the “side of the good” consists of corrupt people who have secret wealth hidden abroad.

IK personally may not have stolen money but his greed for power has led him to add corrupt people to his team. Add to that his incompetence in developing the economy.

 

[Major]

I'm sorry but your posts actually show your desperation, a support for corruption and betrays your support for crooks.

Since 2018 you snd others like you have continually attacked IK and have looked for any reason to jump on his back so much so that it's become a fight between good vs evil and you can't blame people for jumping firmly to the side of the good.

lol good and evil.

so now pti is the good and the rest are evil..

overseas as usual....

 

[Itachi]

I'm sorry but your posts actually show your desperation, a support for corruption and betrays your support for crooks.

Since 2018 you snd others like you have continually attacked IK and have looked for any reason to jump on his back so much so that it's become a fight between good vs evil and you can't blame people for jumping firmly to the side of the good.

PTI is the good side or IK is the good side (of PTI)?

 

[saeedhk]

‘The Pandora papers are an attempt by India to defame us,’ former Pakistan military official named in the papers.

 

[IMMY69]

PTI is the good side or IK is the good side (of PTI)?

As far I'm concerned, and this is my true position, the country has been raped by the previous rulers so for the first time in Pakistan's history we have a PM who is not from any of the ruling families.
If the others can have decades of power and lute the country for everything it has then the sensible approach would be to give IK and his party at least this term, if not another term, to see what they are made of.

 

[IMMY69]

For you the “side of the good” consists of corrupt people who have secret wealth hidden abroad.

IK personally may not have stolen money but his greed for power has led him to add corrupt people to his team. Add to that his incompetence in developing the economy.

IK's greed for power? You do know that he started of by building a cancer hospital, the first of its kind in Pakistan, where the poor people could get treatment. He then spent 22 years in Pakistani politics, striving to garner support and make an impact.

He gave up a carefree life of travelling the world and being paid handsomely for commentary work and after dinner speeches.

This is not man that is greedy for power, it is someone who truly cares for the country and its people.

Regarding the economy, how many times have you visited Pakistan? Have you seen what Zardari/PPP have done to Karachi? Half finished bridges, a broken sewerage system, lands taken from the poor, extreme corruption???

PMLN/PPP didn't just leave the country broke, they lifted bankrupt and destitute. Something that will take years to sort out.

 

[IMMY69]

lol good and evil.

so now pti is the good and the rest are evil..

overseas as usual....

What are you talking about? Please learn to read things in context.

 

[JaDed]

‘The Pandora papers are an attempt by India to defame us,’ former Pakistan military official named in the papers.

Yes and defame ourselves too the logic

 

[JaDed]

In that case should Boris Johnson resign too?

Boris Johnson will not be in charge of investigating his own ministry though..

 

[Bewal Express]

Again, you just show your biasness and will worship anything that Imran does.

first of all the team investigating this would be NAB and we all know the reputation of NAB that only acts against the opposition.. Second, didnt this same PM used to whine about the people whose name come up should resign or be suspended while investigation goes on.

Not easy to walk the talk eh?


The people humiliated are you and your pti fan boys. You lot started calling our PMLN and unexpectedly next day names of ministers came out


PTI is a proven party that benefits from corruption money. seems like a money laundering scheme now

NAB chairman was appointed by AZ and NS. Do I need to say anymore. The NAB chairman has done everything to protect the crooks and not a single prosecution from him of the mega crooks.
As far as worshipping is concerned, it's you that can't bring yourself to comment on the PPP looting the poor, what's stopping you?

 

[Bewal Express]

lol good and evil.

so now pti is the good and the rest are evil..

overseas as usual....

Name a single honest person in the PPP that is currently active in their politics. It's a party of thugs crooks, given legitimacy by a political party.

 

[Itachi]

Name a single honest person in the PPP that is currently active in their politics. It's a party of thugs crooks, given legitimacy by a political party.

Is PTI clean or only IK is clean in your opinion?

 

[Bewal Express]

Is PTI clean or only IK is clean in your opinion?

IK is clean, the PTI new people are mostly clean. The likes Hammad Azhar, Muraad , Assad Umar etc are clean but it has corrupt people mostly old school and belong to political families.
The question is whether they can use the govt to make money and under IK, they can't. [MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION] supports a party that doesn't have a single active member that is clean. It's the reason he doesn't have the cajones to talk about the PPP.

 

[Local.Dada]

IK is clean, the PTI new people are mostly clean. The likes Hammad Azhar, Muraad , Assad Umar etc are clean but it has corrupt people mostly old school and belong to political families.
The question is whether they can use the govt to make money and under IK, they can't. [MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION] supports a party that doesn't have a single active member that is clean. It's the reason he doesn't have the cajones to talk about the PPP.

If Imran Khan is so idealistic then why did he hire such shady people?

So he does compromise on values then?

Anyway that was rhetorical. I personally think Imran has honest intentions and wants to do well for the common folk but he is not smart or competent enough to be a world leader. That’s my assessment.

That is why he has all these guys around him taking advantage.

By smart I meant politically smart. There are some shrewd career politicians in India and even Pakistan who will run circles around him and that’s what is probably happening.

 

[IMMY69]

Boris Johnson will not be in charge of investigating his own ministry though..

Chances are there will be no investigation on BJ, whether by an Independant committee or by a judicial committee...

The outcome of the IK government enquiry can be scrutinised in due course and with vultures circling around him you can count on any irregularity being exposed.

 

[Bewal Express]

If Imran Khan is so idealistic then why did he hire such shady people?

So he does compromise on values then?

Anyway that was rhetorical. I personally think Imran has honest intentions and wants to do well for the common folk but he is not smart or competent enough to be a world leader. That’s my assessment.

That is why he has all these guys around him taking advantage.

By smart I meant politically smart. There are some shrewd career politicians in India and even Pakistan who will run circles around him and that’s what is probably happening.

You would be hard pressed to find 20 honest people in Parliament, IK has a minority govt and without power you can't make changes. He has started to change the culture but it takes time.
I guarantee that if IK had a 2/3 majority, he would uproot the whole political culture based around these crooks. When the Nooras and PPP had a 2/3 majority, they bargained on allowing NS to be PM for the 3rd time and the 18th Amendment, which allows the PPP to loot the poor of Sindh with impunity.

 

[Major]

You would be hard pressed to find 20 honest people in Parliament, IK has a minority govt and without power you can't make changes. He has started to change the culture but it takes time.
I guarantee that if IK had a 2/3 majority, he would uproot the whole political culture based around these crooks. When the Nooras and PPP had a 2/3 majority, they bargained on allowing NS to be PM for the 3rd time and the 18th Amendment, which allows the PPP to loot the poor of Sindh with impunity.

stop spreading lies here.

IK has power, whenever he wants to get something passed and gets defeated by the National Assembly, he goes for a joint parliament vote where Senate and NA both come in. Plus, in NA he has been relying on his PMLQ brothers......

PTI fan boys already coming up with excuses

Also, for most of the things, Imran isn't even doing discussion in parliament.

18 amendment was needed. It was a good decision. You lot want a presidential system so that you could bypass those parliament and opposition.

18th amendment has made the state more democratic. By keeping the country centralized it helped no one. Federal kept getting blame as it did nothing.

Only argument that could be made about 18th amendment is whether local govts should had been given more power or not because lcoal govts effects the local people alot.

Also, as usual stop whining about NS becoming pm 3rd time. Pakistan is not a country like USA. In USA the president gets to complete his tenure as a president. In Pakistan you cannot apply such laws of placing a limit on becoming a PM as no prime minister is allowed to complete his full tenure.

 

[Bewal Express]

stop spreading lies here.

IK has power, whenever he wants to get something passed and gets defeated by the National Assembly, he goes for a joint parliament vote where Senate and NA both come in. Plus, in NA he has been relying on his PMLQ brothers......

PTI fan boys already coming up with excuses

Also, for most of the things, Imran isn't even doing discussion in parliament.

18 amendment was needed. It was a good decision. You lot want a presidential system so that you could bypass those parliament and opposition.

18th amendment has made the state more democratic. By keeping the country centralized it helped no one. Federal kept getting blame as it did nothing.

Only argument that could be made about 18th amendment is whether local govts should had been given more power or not because lcoal govts effects the local people alot.

Also, as usual stop whining about NS becoming pm 3rd time. Pakistan is not a country like USA. In USA the president gets to complete his tenure as a president. In Pakistan you cannot apply such laws of placing a limit on becoming a PM as no prime minister is allowed to complete his full tenure.

So are you saying that IK has a majority govt? And you accuse me of lying. The irony isn't lost anyone that knows that you back thugs and murderers who steal from the poorest in society. You people take money from the mouths of the hungry children in Thar and rural Sindh and you have the nerve to accuse me of lying
Off course you believe the 18th Amendment is good, afterall it has given your thugs a meal ticket. Tell us how good it is when Aziz Memon was murdered for showing up Billos rent a crowd. We don't forget. And the people of Karachi will tell you how well its worked. They can't even get clean water and the bribes are being siphoned off to Canada. Look at the SC comments on how well it's working

 

[Bewal Express]

stop spreading lies here.

IK has power, whenever he wants to get something passed and gets defeated by the National Assembly, he goes for a joint parliament vote where Senate and NA both come in. Plus, in NA he has been relying on his PMLQ brothers......

PTI fan boys already coming up with excuses

Also, for most of the things, Imran isn't even doing discussion in parliament.

18 amendment was needed. It was a good decision. You lot want a presidential system so that you could bypass those parliament and opposition.

18th amendment has made the state more democratic. By keeping the country centralized it helped no one. Federal kept getting blame as it did nothing.

Only argument that could be made about 18th amendment is whether local govts should had been given more power or not because lcoal govts effects the local people alot.

Also, as usual stop whining about NS becoming pm 3rd time. Pakistan is not a country like USA. In USA the president gets to complete his tenure as a president. In Pakistan you cannot apply such laws of placing a limit on becoming a PM as no prime minister is allowed to complete his full tenure.

BTW are you saying IK can bring forward a constitutional amendment with a minority govt

 

[Major]

BTW are you saying IK can bring forward a constitutional amendment with a minority govt

correct me if i am wrong here, if NA is in minority, cant an amendment or bill be passed by having a joint session with NA and Senate?

 

[Bewal Express]

correct me if i am wrong here, if NA is in minority, cant an amendment or bill be passed by having a joint session with NA and Senate?

Yes he can but his coalition partners need to agree or did you forget that. My point was more broader and obviously, it went over your head, he can't pass meaningful laws without a 2/3 majority. PK is desperate need of a Presidential system to take power away from crooked political families and even more importantly, Judicial reforms.

 

[Major]

Yes he can but his coalition partners need to agree or did you forget that. My point was more broader and obviously, it went over your head, he can't pass meaningful laws without a 2/3 majority. PK is desperate need of a Presidential system to take power away from crooked political families and even more importantly, Judicial reforms.

nope, we are better off in a parliamentary which is a better form of democracy.

Power needs to be decentralized, not be stuck at federal level which does nothing.

 

[Bewal Express]

nope, we are better off in a parliamentary which is a better form of democracy.

Power needs to be decentralized, not be stuck at federal level which does nothing.

No we are not. PK best development took place under Ayub and Mush. Both made mistakes but compared to the crooks, they are legends. Look at the disaster of these 2 families and all their ilk. In a parliamentary system, the power is held by crooked constituency MNAs, who are only interested in money. I would also add more power to local Mayor's in major Cities, if that was the case, we wouldn't have seen Karachi brought to its knees by your friends, who used the funds from central govt and sent them to Dubai and Canada. Not enough cash to clean the Nullahs they told the SC.lol

 

[Major]

No we are not. PK best development took place under Ayub and Mush. Both made mistakes but compared to the crooks, they are legends. Look at the disaster of these 2 families and all their ilk. In a parliamentary system, the power is held by crooked constituency MNAs, who are only interested in money. I would also add more power to local Mayor's in major Cities, if that was the case, we wouldn't have seen Karachi brought to its knees by your friends, who used the funds from central govt and sent them to Dubai and Canada. Not enough cash to clean the Nullahs they told the SC.lol

karachi was destroyed because of your beloved millatary bringing and funding MQM.

Local govt can be improved by making further amendememtns to the parliamentary system.

 

[cric_man]

karachi was destroyed because of your beloved millatary bringing and funding MQM.

Local govt can be improved by making further amendememtns to the parliamentary system.

what has been done for KHI in the past 12 years with total PPP control. Uptil Musharraf's time KHI had an effective local bodies government run fairly well first by Nazim Naimatullah (marhoom) of JI and later on Mustafa Kamal. PPP in the past 12 years have literally destroyed any local government org in KHI.

PPP abolished the local bodies set up in Musharraf's era.

Talk about being a blind follower...

http://www.worldmayor.com/manifestos05/karachi_05.html

 

[Itachi]

IK is clean, the PTI new people are mostly clean. The likes Hammad Azhar, Muraad , Assad Umar etc are clean but it has corrupt people mostly old school and belong to political families.
The question is whether they can use the govt to make money and under IK, they can't. [MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION] supports a party that doesn't have a single active member that is clean. It's the reason he doesn't have the cajones to talk about the PPP.

But there's an issue. Let's assume IK was unaware of corruption (alleged) in his inner circle. But since a core team of investigation is made, why he hasn't change the position of those people?

If you are govt servant in India, whether a minister or just a simple employee, you will either be suspended for the time being (if your show cause reply is unsatisfactory) or you will be temporarily moved to another department so that investigation could go without hindrance. But IK has not taken any steps.

Even if he isn't corrupted, by his not taking any steps, it kind of helps corruption.

 

[Napa]

IK's greed for power? You do know that he started of by building a cancer hospital, the first of its kind in Pakistan, where the poor people could get treatment. He then spent 22 years in Pakistani politics, striving to garner support and make an impact.

He gave up a carefree life of travelling the world and being paid handsomely for commentary work and after dinner speeches.

This is not man that is greedy for power, it is someone who truly cares for the country and its people.

Regarding the economy, how many times have you visited Pakistan? Have you seen what Zardari/PPP have done to Karachi? Half finished bridges, a broken sewerage system, lands taken from the poor, extreme corruption???

PMLN/PPP didn't just leave the country broke, they lifted bankrupt and destitute. Something that will take years to sort out.

He built a cancer hospital so he must not be greedy for power. Nice logic.

NS has had to suffer a lot more (multiple jailings) than IK as he took on the military establishment.

IK said he would commit suicide before he took an IMF bailout. Not only did he take a bailout but his utter failure to create conditions for the development of modern industries means Pakistan will soon be needing more.

 

[Bewal Express]

karachi was destroyed because of your beloved millatary bringing and funding MQM.

Local govt can be improved by making further amendememtns to the parliamentary system.

The PPP have been in power for 13 years and you are blaming the Millitary that it isn't clean and has no infrastructure. Your excuses in failing to account for billions being stolen and taken abroad are truly awful.

 

[Bewal Express]

But there's an issue. Let's assume IK was unaware of corruption (alleged) in his inner circle. But since a core team of investigation is made, why he hasn't change the position of those people?

If you are govt servant in India, whether a minister or just a simple employee, you will either be suspended for the time being (if your show cause reply is unsatisfactory) or you will be temporarily moved to another department so that investigation could go without hindrance. But IK has not taken any steps.

Even if he isn't corrupted, by his not taking any steps, it kind of helps corruption.

I agree that those people named should step aside. An investigation should be quick and those that have a question to answer should remained suspended.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

If Imran Khan is so idealistic then why did he hire such shady people?

So he does compromise on values then?

Anyway that was rhetorical. I personally think Imran has honest intentions and wants to do well for the common folk but he is not smart or competent enough to be a world leader. That’s my assessment.

That is why he has all these guys around him taking advantage.

By smart I meant politically smart. There are some shrewd career politicians in India and even Pakistan who will run circles around him and that’s what is probably happening.

Thats the only way you can win. He tried with the honest people and he was humiliated in the elections.

In 1997 he won zero seats.
In 2002 he won one seat, his hometown of Mianwali.

He realized that you cant win the elections without electables. He needs to continue this strategy in interior Sindh, and give the second biggest wadera a PTI ticket. Only place where electables are not needed are in places like Karachi and Lahore.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Yes he can but his coalition partners need to agree or did you forget that. My point was more broader and obviously, it went over your head, he can't pass meaningful laws without a 2/3 majority. PK is desperate need of a Presidential system to take power away from crooked political families and even more importantly, Judicial reforms.

How does that take away power from crooked families? US has a presidential system, you still need Congress to pass laws. Those crooked families will still win seats, and as the president is not a dictator he will need their support to pass laws.

Better option for Pakistan is to stick with the parliamentary system with the people making better choices in who they give their vote to.

Ultimately the people of a country are responsible for its success not the system. UK has a parliamentary system, US has a presidential system, but both are successful. Likewise Nigeria has a presidential system and is not a successful country, and same with Pakistan, parliamentary system yet not successful.

 

[IMMY69]

I agree that those people named should step aside. An investigation should be quick and those that have a question to answer should remained suspended.

I don't agree with this.

The Pandora Box has revealed tax avoidance schemes around the world.
They have not disclosed illegality.
That's why some of the leaders directly impacted, such as Johnson, have nothing to answer for even though they received donations from people who benefitted from the Pandora's Box.

PTI and it's members should be judged on their performance since being elected and continuity is necessary for at least another decade, so judgment should be reserved for sometime.

The nay sayers should be ignored. They're just party to the corruption. Give them credence if after ten years the PTI has failed to bring the country into the 21st century.

 

[Itachi]

I don't agree with this.

The Pandora Box has revealed tax avoidance schemes around the world.
They have not disclosed illegality.
That's why some of the leaders directly impacted, such as Johnson, have nothing to answer for even though they received donations from people who benefitted from the Pandora's Box.

PTI and it's members should be judged on their performance since being elected and continuity is necessary for at least another decade, so judgment should be reserved for sometime.

The nay sayers should be ignored. They're just party to the corruption. Give them credence if after ten years the PTI has failed to bring the country into the 21st century.

That's not how it works in most countries especially if you are govt servant.

If there is allegations, either you will be suspended (if the charge sheet contains sensitive information) or for lesser accounts, you will be transferred.

Till the investigation goes on, it will be like that in order to not to create any obstacles for investigating agency.

If you are not guilty, you will get the whole outstanding payments for the suspension period including reinstating in your original position.

This is a clear weakness and non transparency in case of IK where he has failed to take appropriate actions.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

That's not how it works in most countries especially if you are govt servant.

If there is allegations, either you will be suspended (if the charge sheet contains sensitive information) or for lesser accounts, you will be transferred.

Till the investigation goes on, it will be like that in order to not to create any obstacles for investigating agency.

If you are not guilty, you will get the whole outstanding payments for the suspension period including reinstating in your original position.

This is a clear weakness and non transparency in case of IK where he has failed to take appropriate actions.

This was IK position before he became Prime Minister. However most likely nothing will happen. He has already taken a u-turn on this position when it came to the railway minister.

Whats the reason for the u-turn? Its not illegal to have an offshore company, IK himself had one. He was just blowing smoke before the election, like Trump said he was going to lock Hilary up.

Also their is minimum political gain, its not like his opponents will start supporting him, instead they will point out the other u-turns he has taken. They could care less about the Pandora Papers, and their preferred political parties, PPP & PML N, would not make any ministers resign.

His supporters dont really care for the u turns. He has already taken 100 of them, what difference does one more make.

They support IK for the following reasons:

they dislike the other parties
they dont view him as personally corrupt
PTI does not represent any ethnicity
IK children wont take over the party, unlike PML N and PPP

 

[Bewal Express]

How does that take away power from crooked families? US has a presidential system, you still need Congress to pass laws. Those crooked families will still win seats, and as the president is not a dictator he will need their support to pass laws.

Better option for Pakistan is to stick with the parliamentary system with the people making better choices in who they give their vote to.

Ultimately the people of a country are responsible for its success not the system. UK has a parliamentary system, US has a presidential system, but both are successful. Likewise Nigeria has a presidential system and is not a successful country, and same with Pakistan, parliamentary system yet not successful.

For a start it will stop a few guys threatening to switch and bring the govt down every other month. As soon as any big personality is charged in the governing party, you have their groups threatening to form a forward bloc. In a society like PK, constituency politics is dominated by 3 or 4 families and wherever they go, that party wins. In a Presidential form, it will be 3 or 4 candidates and the power is vested with the President for the full 5 years. As you point, it won't solve all of our problems but it would start the process

 

[Itachi]

For a start it will stop a few guys threatening to switch and bring the govt down every other month. As soon as any big personality is charged in the governing party, you have their groups threatening to form a forward bloc. In a society like PK, constituency politics is dominated by 3 or 4 families and wherever they go, that party wins. In a Presidential form, it will be 3 or 4 candidates and the power is vested with the President for the full 5 years. As you point, it won't solve all of our problems but it would start the process

What if.... The political clout changes and one of those people from the families become president? It will be way more dictatorship than the existing system.

After IK, I don't see any other personality on THAT level which could dethrone them for a longer time.

Lets assume IK is clean and during his tenure, everything goes as expected. But what happens after him?

 

[saeedhk]

Imran will never investigate the generals who have named in the papers. After all, Imran Khan gave the biggest NRO in Pakistan’s history by escort corrupt Nawaz Sharif to a London-bound plane.

Imran’s rhetoric of accountability is a farce!

 

[IMMY69]

That's not how it works in most countries especially if you are govt servant.

If there is allegations, either you will be suspended (if the charge sheet contains sensitive information) or for lesser accounts, you will be transferred.

Till the investigation goes on, it will be like that in order to not to create any obstacles for investigating agency.

If you are not guilty, you will get the whole outstanding payments for the suspension period including reinstating in your original position.

This is a clear weakness and non transparency in case of IK where he has failed to take appropriate actions.

British Ministers have stayed in Government with allegation and investigations regarding bullying over their heads.

American Presidents have remained in power through allegations of financial impropriety and sexual harassment cases.

Then you have a vast array of politicians in South East Asia who remain in power despite various allegations and investigations against them.

I think we can live with a few ministers guilty of avoiding tax or trying to remain anonymous in their b Haines dealings, at least until something concrete shows up like the ex prime minister being caught red handed with hundreds of millions of pounds worth of properties without any income trail.

 

[Bewal Express]

What if.... The political clout changes and one of those people from the families become president? It will be way more dictatorship than the existing system.

After IK, I don't see any other personality on THAT level which could dethrone them for a longer time.

Lets assume IK is clean and during his tenure, everything goes as expected. But what happens after him?

That's always a possibility and if he/she does, then we have to live with it. The system atm is setup to keep the thugs and crooks in perennial power.

 

[Napa]

PTI supporters:

1) Corruption during NS's tenure as PM is his fault.

2) Corruption during IK's tenure as PM is not his fault, it is the fault of the system.

 

[MenInG]

The federal government has launched a formal probe against the 700 Pakistanis whose name appeared in the Pandora Papers last week.

The country’s top investigation agencies have been tasked to investigate those individuals. The agencies will also seek help from the provincial revenue departments and Nadra.

On October 3, the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) opened a Pandora’s box – a massive trove of private financial records, dubbed Pandora Papers.

The leaks also named some 700 Pakistanis, including cabinet members, allegedly hiding financial secrets via offshore companies.

The ICIJ stated that key members of Prime Minister Imran Khan’s inner circle, including cabinet ministers, their families and major financial backers had secretly owned an array of companies and trusts holding millions of dollars of hidden wealth.

The government had announced it will establish a high-level cell under the Prime Minister’s Inspection Commission to question all individuals, who are part of the Pandora Papers with the aim to present the facts before the nation.

The ICIJ’s investigation was the result of 600 journalists in 117 countries, studying for months roughly 11.9 million leaked documents.

In light of the investigation, reports will be provided to the FIA, NAB and FBR so that legal action could be taken against the Pakistanis who invested in the offshore companies according to the Pakistani law.

The Pandora Papers investigation has been divided into two parts according to which current or former public office holders and the business figures will be investigated separately.

In the first phase, details of Pakistanis who names appeared in the Pandora Papers are being collected pertaining to their businesses, bank accounts and properties in the country along with their daily expenses, children's education and marriage expenses.

Apart from this, the details of their foreign trips, medical treatment and shopping are also being collected. The agency will also gather specifics about their public and private bank accounts, mobile data, travel agents and booking details of private hotels.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2324178/probe-against-700-pakistanis-named-in-pandora-papers-begins