The problem with Virat Kohli's "aggression"

[barah_admi]

This is not just a thread about the England v India series but about Kohli's captaincy and on field persona in general. However, we will start with England tottering on 160-7. They looked like they would crumble before reaching 200 and yet Kohli let them off the hook...again. Slips peeled away, fielders were pushed back...this to a tailender like Broad no less, a player without a significant test score since December.

What was the thinking behind this? Why did Kohli and thus India, run away with their tails between their legs? WHy did they not go for the kill? Why does Kohli pout and shout and roar with his body language, yet his tactics are lame, slow, almost as bad if not worse than Dhoni's? Why is he, as captain, negative and overly defensive?

This is not the first time and nor is it the only format. As ODI captain, he often defers to the equally dour Dhoni, looking like a small boy asking his father for advice. Why does he put so much effort in creating an image of aggression but lacks it in his captaincy, his field placements and his ability in understanding the game.

Misbah-Ul Haq, the finest captain of the decade, was often rightly derided for his negativity and yet, even he understood when to squeeze the screws and to throttle the opponent. He did it to Sri Lanka, he did it to England and he did it to the mighty Australia. He understood when his killers (in those days, spinners) should come on, in fact, he delivered a shocking body blow to England at Lord's in 2016. One from which England barely recovered, maybe they still haven't.

So for all his body language, why does Kohli not have the true act of aggression, why is he so meek, dare I say, afraid of attacking a team floundering, weak, almost out? It has cost India, time and time again.

 

[kuskash]

Let’s not call it aggression, its more like Kohli and Shastri’s stupidity.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

I only like Kohli as a batsman and off the field too he isn't a bad human. But I never liked his wicket celebrations ever. They are so childish sometimes. He jumps like Dinda and makes faces like Sreesanth after getting a wicket. That's the worst combo to have. I sometimes think he is going to injure himself by celebrating like that.

 

[Ab Fan]

He is a poor tactician. But unfortunately, India has no other options. The likes of Pujara and Rahane are soft and seems like a meek character.

In ODIs, maybe Sharma will help but Kohli has great results, so nobody can question it and Sharma is also older to Kohli.

 

[Markhor]

I heard rumblings from Indian fans about Kohli's captaincy but now I've seen it first hand here in England. For all his brilliance with the bat, the tactics and selections have been baffling. But this has been par for the course this series for Kohli.

England have been 80-6 twice and 198-7 here, yet India have allowed the lower order to get decisive runs.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

I only like Kohli as a batsman and off the field too he isn't a bad human. But I never liked his wicket celebrations ever. They are so childish sometimes. He jumps like Dinda and makes faces like Sreesanth after getting a wicket. That's the worst combo to have. I sometimes think he is going to injure himself by celebrating like that.

Not trying to derail this thread or anything: his celebrations look funny to me. His frame is too little to be jumping and screaming like that

To OP: One reason could be that India win too easily at home. It's all about putting some score on board and let Ashwin/Jadeja bowl the good length and boom game is won.

Maybe BCCI should play back to back 5 matches test series so that VK may learn how to captain in a proper contest at home

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Difference between Dhoni and Kohli's captaincy was how they handled their fast bowlers and their body languages.

Kohli knows how to use his fast bowlers and motivated them to bowl fast. Dhoni on the other hand wanted trundlers like RP Singh, Mohit, Dinda, Joginder in his team.

Dhoni had the same body language most of the time. It was very difficult to predict what's going through his mind most of the time. Kohli on the other hand acts like a child sometimes. He gives the hint with his body language.

If anyone of you have noticed his body language after the first inning ended in the CT final then you can tell that India is going to lose it because the captain looks down with confidence. That moment itself was good enough to tell me that we are going to lose today pretty badly.

 

[Sam99]

Kohli is not aggressive captain instead much defensive captain. He looks and behaves like he is aggressive that's it. People feel that he is aggressive because after wickets fall the way he jumps and shouts that's not aggressive at all. He tries to be aggressive but is pretty much nothing more than Dhoni version 2. Infact Dhoni was much smart as captain than kohli can ever be.

 

[Savak]

I thought he had disciplined himself outside off stump in England before he succumbed to temptations by Stock and nicked to slip

 

[Shutdown Corner]

Kohli is too trigger happy with his use of the DRS, generally speaking.

His main problem has been selection. He has been hyper reluctant to pick the same XI in successive Tests and that has hampered team cohesion and rhythm, IMO. The bowling is doing well, but this is also a very flawed England batting lineup. The proof is in the fact that the English lower order is absolutely punishing India's bowlers in every single game.

It will be interesting to see if Kohli has the insight and the humilty to change his approach after two tough-to-digest series losses in SA and England. India competed in almost every game, only to give it away in the end. If it was South Africa, people would keep using the C word.

Once again, Australia presents a very vulnerable side and another excellent opportunity to secure an overseas series win with Smith and Warner out.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Kohli is not aggressive captain instead much defensive captain. He looks and behaves like he is aggressive that's it. People feel that he is aggressive because after wickets fall the way he jumps and shouts that's not aggressive at all. He tries to be aggressive but is pretty much nothing more than Dhoni version 2. Infact Dhoni was much smart as captain than kohli can ever be.

One more thing is whenever he gets out he takes a review without consulting the non striker. I mean its so quick and gives an impression that a kid is holding a candy in his hands and as soon as someone comes near him he unwraps it and put it in his mouth so that nobody else can eat his candy.

 

[Saj]

He's not a tactical genius is he.

In fact I would say he's quite a weak captain who tends to follow the ball with his field-placings.

 

[Sam99]

One more thing is whenever he gets out he takes a review without consulting the non striker. I mean its so quick and gives an impression that a kid is holding a candy in his hands and as soon as someone comes near him he unwraps it and put it in his mouth so that nobody else can eat his candy.

Yeah 1 review is pretty much reserved for him. He does same while fielding too. Takes review without thinking when ever opposition's best batsman is batting.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Yeah 1 review is pretty much reserved for him. He does same while fielding too. Takes review without thinking when ever opposition's best batsman is batting.

May be he thinks of reviews as an Audience Poll option in Kaun Banega Crorepati where large indian crowd will help him get an opposition batsman wicket by voting.

 

[Sherlock]

He's a very reactionary captain. Be it the choices he makes in-game or the emotions he shows. Neither should make him a bad captain, but do make him the average everyday captain.

 

[Mute Witness]

Hold on a sec Sir, but Kohli isn't the only one to suffer at the hands on England's lower order. We've been suffering from it all the way back to 2010 when Stuart Broad smashed 169 after England were effectively 80/7 or something. In 2016 under Misbah, Moeen Ali and Chris Woakes scored a bucket full of runs. In 2018, Sam Curran and Bess did really well. England's lower order at home is arguably better than their top order, it's ridiculous i know, but that's what the numbers say

Why were we more effective than India then. I have a different theory. The major difference is 300 with lower order help against us was not necessarily game over. In the last 10 completed innings in England out of 12, we scored over 300 on 4 occasion, including a 400 and a 500+ score. That's a solid 40% every time we bat. The two incompleted innings were winning chases of 40/0 and 66/1 i think. Its the batting that's been the main difference. And it's something i find extremely difficult to fathom. Why can't India's famed batting line up not produce in England, against the same bowlers under identical conditions, while we can? That is the million dollar question and It's beyond me to be honest. This is an experienced bunch, with multiple tours to England.

 

[PakLFC]

Aggression has to be controlled for it to be effective. To much off it makes a person lose sense. If Kohli is over aggressive other cricketers will get used to it. The surprise factor will no longer be there although I do not think he is over aggressive at all.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Why were we more effective than India then. I have a different theory. The major difference is 300 with lower order help against us was not necessarily game over. In the last 10 completed innings in England out of 12, we scored over 300 on 4 occasion, including a 400 and a 500+ score. That's a solid 40% every time we bat. The two incompleted innings were winning chases of 40/0 and 66/1 i think. Its the batting that's been the main difference. And it's something i find extremely difficult to fathom. Why can't India's famed batting line up not produce in England, against the same bowlers under identical conditions, while we can? That is the million dollar question and It's beyond me to be honest. This is an experienced bunch, with multiple tours to England.

Simple answer: the wickets two summers ago were very dry, and the ball didn't hoop around as much as it has this season. Wahab and Amir were relying on reverse swing to break partnerships. It's also indisputable Yasir Shah performed when it mattered, unlike India's premier spinner this time around.

I would have been immensely interested to see how we would have fared this year if we played a 4-test series rather than the token 2 matches. I like to imagine that our batsmen would have been more disciplined at playing the ball late and smothering the swing effectively. We saw hints of it at Lord's. Obviously, you can't expect a cool customer like to pay attention to technical nuances and to ask the Indian batsmen to change their approach as the doctor ordered.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Kohli's captaincy was very disappointing today. Not only did his bowlers fail to exploit Broad's weaknesses with the short ball but his decision to spread the field when Buttler and Broad started scoring quickly released all the pressure and allowed England to play even more freely. I also think he should have opened the bowling with Shami who was constantly beating the edge and bowling a much fuller length than Bumrah. Early morning conditions were difficult for batting and had he brought Shami on India could have squeezed England out early

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Reality of Kohli's captaincy is that despite his aggressive personality he is an extremely defensive captain when under pressure

 

[ChuckLee]

You lost me at Misbah.

Facts are under Pakistan we was minnows. We were minnows in ODI cricket home or away.

We only did well in UAE in tests.

Kohli and India are #1 in tests and #2 in ODI. And the best side in the world overall.

 

[Itachi]

Aggression could be a facade to hide the despire at times. Showing and being one is different.

 

[Mohammad zuber]

May be kohli wants to show how much he loves his game but i am also not impressed by his wicket celebration kohli never going to be a great captain with his childish behaviour

 

[Mohammad zuber]

Agree with you he is a sensless captain in my mind

 

[Mohammad zuber]

Rohit sharma is a better captain than kohli

 

[the_outsider]

Not surprised to see this thread.

Now that Kohli has scored 600 runs in England it was only a matter of time before haters came up with another "reason" to try and bring him down.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Kohli = Afridi.

Lot's of "aggressive" postures - but tactically defensive captaincy - often clueless.

The difference between the two - Kohli is a monster performer with the bat in hand.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I"ll prefer kohli any day over dhoni in tests as captain. Both are equally bad but in kohli's reign, the fast bowlers have done well.
Secondly he can shout, dance, cuss etc etc, no one can stop him from doing that he is the best batsman in the world and the face of cricket.
But yeah dhoni is GOAT odi captain. No one comes close.

 

[wrongun]

Kohli is no master tactician but neither are/were 80% of international captains. BUT he does have strengths, enough to make him a decent captain (with time to grow).

Kohli's sides believe in themselves. His treatment of fast bowlers and the output they give as a result is reason alone to keep him streets ahead of Dhoni as a Test captain. Time after time under Dhoni I saw fast bowlers destroyed, undermined, captained as if they were a lost cause with no way to take a wicket. You could see the shoulders slump, the lack of energy and belief and they honestly looked a beaten time while still halfway through a match on away tours. It was pathetic at times.

Kohli at least shows his bowlers confidence, he has a plan for them to take wickets that doesn't evaporate the moment they bowl a bad over or a catch is dropped. They know they are important and treated as such. They have a belief that is palpable- they can go a session or longer with no wickets, all the bad luck in the world, have only 2-3 wickets down going into the last hour and STILL be roaring in at full pace sticking disciplined to the plan, looking hungry and like they can take a wicket. It's night and day on away tours.

They may not have won every game but they have been IN every game. The matches are competitive, thrilling. They are playing good cricket and trying to find ways to win, not shuffling around looking like they just want somewhere to hide and it is all too hard. They are up for it.

Kohli is a decent captain for improving that alone. His aggression is part of that, fast bowlers need it. Sure it may not suit everyone or he may look silly but that's his style at the moment. He has time to develop more gravitas as he matures perhaps but at the moment, he's ok.

 

[Hasan123]

He isn't a great tactican but he leads from the front with bat and with his brilliant fitness. He expects his fast bowlers to be aggressive and gives them confidence. But I don't think his captaincy is aggressive. He makes defensive field changes and tries to preserve runs. His attitude and his batting style make you believe he is an aggressive captain in terms of tactics but he isn't.

 

[barah_admi]

I only like Kohli as a batsman and off the field too he isn't a bad human. But I never liked his wicket celebrations ever. They are so childish sometimes. He jumps like Dinda and makes faces like Sreesanth after getting a wicket. That's the worst combo to have. I sometimes think he is going to injure himself by celebrating like that.

Is it a lack of maturity? Having been groomed as a "star" for so long? Like modern day footballers and NBA stars?

He is a poor tactician. But unfortunately, India has no other options. The likes of Pujara and Rahane are soft and seems like a meek character.

In ODIs, maybe Sharma will help but Kohli has great results, so nobody can question it and Sharma is also older to Kohli.

I'm not sure how you can conclude Pujara/Rahane are any more meek than Kohli? The latters tactics are thoroughly meek and thats what we're talking about, not the whole idea or perception of "aggression".

 

[barah_admi]

Difference between Dhoni and Kohli's captaincy was how they handled their fast bowlers and their body languages.

Kohli knows how to use his fast bowlers and motivated them to bowl fast. Dhoni on the other hand wanted trundlers like RP Singh, Mohit, Dinda, Joginder in his team.

Dhoni had the same body language most of the time. It was very difficult to predict what's going through his mind most of the time. Kohli on the other hand acts like a child sometimes. He gives the hint with his body language.

If anyone of you have noticed his body language after the first inning ended in the CT final then you can tell that India is going to lose it because the captain looks down with confidence. That moment itself was good enough to tell me that we are going to lose today pretty badly.

Do you think he is a bully? Strong when on top but meek when losing or when someone stands up to him? I remember his exuberance in the first Ind/Pak match in the CT but half way through the final, as you noticed, his head was down and his back stooped. Plus he started being extra friendly to the Pakistani players. It reminded me of a school yard bully who got his comeuppance but wants to be friends now.

He's not a tactical genius is he.

In fact I would say he's quite a weak captain who tends to follow the ball with his field-placings.

Yes, and he allows his fielders to sit back ,letting batsmen, even tailenders, dictate the pace. It works in Asia, in particular India where they can regularly get scores of 400-450 and allow singles, choke the boundaries and get the spinners in.

Simple answer: the wickets two summers ago were very dry, and the ball didn't hoop around as much as it has this season. Wahab and Amir were relying on reverse swing to break partnerships. It's also indisputable Yasir Shah performed when it mattered, unlike India's premier spinner this time around.

I would have been immensely interested to see how we would have fared this year if we played a 4-test series rather than the token 2 matches. I like to imagine that our batsmen would have been more disciplined at playing the ball late and smothering the swing effectively. We saw hints of it at Lord's. Obviously, you can't expect a cool customer like to pay attention to technical nuances and to ask the Indian batsmen to change their approach as the doctor ordered.

Let's stay on topic, nothing to do with Pakistan here.

On topic the conditions have been nothing close to unplayable. The batsmen on both sides have played horribly but Kohli has been key in allowing England off the hook 3 times now, allowing singles and rotation of the strike. For someone who is supposedly so great, shouldn't he have learned from his mistakes already?

 

[Last Monetarist]

Let's stay on topic, nothing to do with Pakistan here.

On topic the conditions have been nothing close to unplayable. The batsmen on both sides have played horribly but Kohli has been key in allowing England off the hook 3 times now, allowing singles and rotation of the strike. For someone who is supposedly so great, shouldn't he have learned from his mistakes already?

He is a great batsman, not a great captain. Far from it. This is where he needed someone from the background staff to have a quiet word and prod him along the right direction. I agree, he has allowed England off the hook this summer. India should have won this series.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

India should look for a new captain if they want to achieve big things which the certainly can with the following, system and money invested in cricket.

Kohli can score his runs while being the main batsman. Ashwin, Rahane or Pujara should take over as captain. Ideally Rahane. I was really impressed with Rahane's captaincy in the deciding test against Aus. His captaincy and Kuldeep won them the match from an important position while Kohli's captaincy is one reason why India is losing matches from winning positions. Also i dont see India winning world cup if Kohli continues with the same intent and methodology. His captaincy was quite poor in CT against SL too.

Great batsman, below average captain!

 

[Yossarian]

Hold on a sec Sir, but Kohli isn't the only one to suffer at the hands on England's lower order. We've been suffering from it all the way back to 2010 when Stuart Broad smashed 169 after England were effectively 80/7 or something. In 2016 under Misbah, Moeen Ali and Chris Woakes scored a bucket full of runs. In 2018, Sam Curran and Bess did really well. England's lower order at home is arguably better than their top order, it's ridiculous i know, but that's what the numbers say

Why were we more effective than India then. I have a different theory. The major difference is 300 with lower order help against us was not necessarily game over. In the last 10 completed innings in England out of 12, we scored over 300 on 4 occasion, including a 400 and a 500+ score. That's a solid 40% every time we bat. The two incompleted innings were winning chases of 40/0 and 66/1 i think. Its the batting that's been the main difference. And it's something i find extremely difficult to fathom. Why can't India's famed batting line up not produce in England, against the same bowlers under identical conditions, while we can? That is the million dollar question and It's beyond me to be honest. This is an experienced bunch, with multiple tours to England.

Combination of two simple factors.

1. The easy wins at home on wickets suited to Indian bowlers means less pressure on the Indian batsmen when batting. And the fact that the batsmen have been used to playing on such wickets in home matches and throughout their domestic careers.

2. The IPL. The batsmen have lost the ability to play defensively when required, hang in there and eke out the runs.

 

[khan991]

Kohli seriously needs to learn to captain, maybe getting advice from ganguly would help him.

 

[BaankeJi]

One more thing is whenever he gets out he takes a review without consulting the non striker. I mean its so quick and gives an impression that a kid is holding a candy in his hands and as soon as someone comes near him he unwraps it and put it in his mouth so that nobody else can eat his candy.

Not true. Sorry but disagree completely.

 

[Hasan123]

India should look for a new captain if they want to achieve big things which the certainly can with the following, system and money invested in cricket.

Kohli can score his runs while being the main batsman. Ashwin, Rahane or Pujara should take over as captain. Ideally Rahane. I was really impressed with Rahane's captaincy in the deciding test against Aus. His captaincy and Kuldeep won them the match from an important position while Kohli's captaincy is one reason why India is losing matches from winning positions. Also i dont see India winning world cup if Kohli continues with the same intent and methodology. His captaincy was quite poor in CT against SL too.

Great batsman, below average captain!

How can Rahane be made captain when he is struggling to maintain his own place in the team ? How can a player who is struggling with the pressure of scoring runs lead a team with backing of over a billion?

Also your making your judgement of 1 good game.

Kohli isn't a great tactican but if he was such a rubbish captain India wouldn't be where they are in the test and ODI ranking .

 

[Nikhil_cric]

He looks for wickets every now and then and overbowls someone like bumrah in the process. He may back the fast bowlers unlike a dhoni but he is quite clueless as to what their individual strengths are collectively how to get the best out of them as an attack. There are periods where you gave to bowl dry and be patient and string together dot balls and maidens and he simply isn't patient enough to do that. To be fair, Shami and bumrah haven't really helped matters either by giving away freebies. Ishant has been the only bowler to bowl relatively accurately . I think we needed Mohammad siraj to share the new ball with Sharma to create pressure from both ends. Also allowing an unfit Ashwin to play has been a pathetic decision. ** then letting him bowl continuously without going to pandya let England off the hook. Very poor captaincy. The underrated Root on the other hand has used his bowlers much better.

 

[barah_admi]

He is a great batsman, not a great captain. Far from it. This is where he needed someone from the background staff to have a quiet word and prod him along the right direction. I agree, he has allowed England off the hook this summer. India should have won this series.

No one watching would believe India ever came close to winning the series. MAYBE they could have gotten or draw in the 3rd test (I think, the one where England were almost out cheaply in the first innings) and hence had a chance of drawing the entire series, but winning it? No. They have been out bowled and at times, out batted.

India should look for a new captain if they want to achieve big things which the certainly can with the following, system and money invested in cricket.

Kohli can score his runs while being the main batsman. Ashwin, Rahane or Pujara should take over as captain. Ideally Rahane. I was really impressed with Rahane's captaincy in the deciding test against Aus. His captaincy and Kuldeep won them the match from an important position while Kohli's captaincy is one reason why India is losing matches from winning positions. Also i dont see India winning world cup if Kohli continues with the same intent and methodology. His captaincy was quite poor in CT against SL too.

Great batsman, below average captain!

Rahane isn't even consistent as a player. Ashwin may be a liability in England and NZ.

Pujara might be the best choice but can he overcome Kohli in the dressing room?

How can Rahane be made captain when he is struggling to maintain his own place in the team ? How can a player who is struggling with the pressure of scoring runs lead a team with backing of over a billion?

Also your making your judgement of 1 good game.

Kohli isn't a great tactican but if he was such a rubbish captain India wouldn't be where they are in the test and ODI ranking .

I think by now we know the rankings are kinda useless.

 

[RamLakhan]

I don't think there is anybody other than Kohli who can captain the Indian side! Rohit can do for LOIs, but that will still result in a different captain for tests, and actually we are not doing that bad in LOIs compared to tests (won in SA). Ashwin is now proving unreliable overseas. Rahane is losing out as a player, Pujara is also not that consistent (would have been considerable if he grew to the stature of Dravid in consistency!)

So Kohli is the best choice in the situation, but you guys are missing out one thing... We can definitely change the "coach", and it will make a lot of difference! The coach can even handle Kohli's aggression also diplomatically (more than that he can guide Kohli in tactics at least off field between session breaks and Kohli can learn from that & improve even on field). If Kohli felt that Kumble was too disciplined, then he should also understand that Shastri is just too easy on the job! Probably a foreign coach can be the best bet who can bring that balance & earn respect! And that should happen pretty soon (at least prior to Australian tour). If India loses Asia Cup, then Shastri should not stay with the team shamelessly!

 

[Hasan123]

No one watching would believe India ever came close to winning the series. MAYBE they could have gotten or draw in the 3rd test (I think, the one where England were almost out cheaply in the first innings) and hence had a chance of drawing the entire series, but winning it? No. They have been out bowled and at times, out batted.



Rahane isn't even consistent as a player. Ashwin may be a liability in England and NZ.

Pujara might be the best choice but can he overcome Kohli in the dressing room?



I think by now we know the rankings are kinda useless.

It's the only system we have so it's what we have to judge on