The questions Cricket Australia dares not ask

[Junaids]

So Cricket Australia has sent its Integrity Director to South Africa to “find out what happened”. Ostensibly, given that Bancroft and Smith confessed, the purpose is to find out who has clean hands and can be he next skipper.

But what if they all knew?

What if this has been going on for the full 25 months that the Aussie bowlers have consistently obtained more reverse swing than the opposition?

And how come Steve Smith explicitly stated that he discussed the plan to cheat with the “leadership group” (universally considered to be Lyon, Warner, Hazlewood and Starc) but now says that by “leadership group” he meant “David Warner”?

So here are the questions which should be asked:

1. When did the ball tampering start? Specifically, was it used at Wellington against New Zealand in February 2016, at Melbourne against Pakistan in December 2016 and at Durban against South Africa in February 2018?

2. Who knew about the tampering? The whole team? The bowlers? The keeper? The coach?

3. Who did Steve Smith mean when he referenced discussion with the “leadership group”?

4. Where was the yellow strip obtained thtvwas used to fix? And when?

 

[shane]

I thought it was implied that they did all know. I think the real question CA will be afraid of asking will be "Should Smith and Warner be banned from ever PLAYING again?"

 

[Savak]

The real question is how long has this been going on and is Mitchel Starc really that good to begin with? What will the performance of the Aussie pace attack look like without a tampered ball?

 

[fawad_wellwisher]

Its pretty clear to any astute cricket observer that :

-this not the first time this has happened;
-most of the current team is complicit in ensuring the ball goes to the person responsible for 'taking care of the ball';
-the brain child and providing encouragement to this sort of behaviour is the coach of the team.

 

[Aman]

Its pretty clear to any astute cricket observer that :

-this not the first time this has happened;
-most of the current team is complicit in ensuring the ball goes to the person responsible for 'taking care of the ball';
-the brain child and providing encouragement to this sort of behaviour is the coach of the team.

They consistently got the old ball to reverse in NZ.

Of course it isn't the first time.

 

[fawad_wellwisher]

They consistently got the old ball to reverse in NZ.

Of course it isn't the first time.

Yes and the challenge for CA will be to balance punishment with containing the damage it may cause if during the investigation the word gets out that this has been going on for a while.

 

[Napa]

So Cricket Australia has sent its Integrity Director to South Africa to “find out what happened”. Ostensibly, given that Bancroft and Smith confessed, the purpose is to find out who has clean hands and can be he next skipper.

Previously you were of the opinion that the superstars of the Australian team would not play in India, because it wasn't attractive to them. Now if the life ban comes through, the superstars will play in India (IPL) but not in Australia

 

[Hasan123]

The leadership group consists of Smith,Warner ,Lehman,Starc,and Lyon imo.

 

[Ab Fan]

So Cricket Australia has sent its Integrity Director to South Africa to “find out what happened”. Ostensibly, given that Bancroft and Smith confessed, the purpose is to find out who has clean hands and can be he next skipper.

But what if they all knew?

What if this has been going on for the full 25 months that the Aussie bowlers have consistently obtained more reverse swing than the opposition?

And how come Steve Smith explicitly stated that he discussed the plan to cheat with the “leadership group” (universally considered to be Lyon, Warner, Hazlewood and Starc) but now says that by “leadership group” he meant “David Warner”?

So here are the questions which should be asked:

1. When did the ball tampering start? Specifically, was it used at Wellington against New Zealand in February 2016, at Melbourne against Pakistan in December 2016 and at Durban against South Africa in February 2018?

2. Who knew about the tampering? The whole team? The bowlers? The keeper? The coach?

3. Who did Steve Smith mean when he referenced discussion with the “leadership group”?

4. Where was the yellow strip obtained thtvwas used to fix? And when?

Stuart Broad said that they were getting reverse swing consistently during the Ashes series. So they are surprised why they changed the method that was working and resorted to ball tampering.

Well, its quite clear what he want to say here.

 

[IndianFan2018]

Stuart Broad said that they were getting reverse swing consistently during the Ashes series. So they are surprised why they changed the method that was working and resorted to ball tampering.

Well, its quite clear what he want to say here.

Very clever and witty comments from Brody there

On topic, this Sandpaper Gate and CA investigation will take little longer to get answers for OP questions.

CA need to be careful in making next moves .. difficult time ahead for AUS cricket.

Good thing, as IPL starts immediately after SA series, CA has enough time in hand to plan next steps and cleanup of image

 

[Indiafan]

Previously you were of the opinion that the superstars of the Australian team would not play in India, because it wasn't attractive to them. Now if the life ban comes through, the superstars will play in India (IPL) but not in Australia

I don't think BCCI will allow banned players in the IPL auction

 

[USofA]

What is odd/surprising is the availability of sandpaper on demand. I mean the leadership collectively made the decision to cheat and they just reached out and grabbed a piece of sandpaper, tucked it in their pocket and walked out to the field.

This just does not happen, unless there have been discussions on previous occasions and they were prepared. Which leads me to conclude that there is an ingrained culture of cheating in the team.

 

[Oligochaetes]

I don't think BCCI will allow banned players in the IPL auction

IPL team might b happier and go n catch Luke Ronchi

 

[IndianFan2018]

IPL team might b happier and go n catch Luke Ronchi

Was Luke Ronchi was part of IPL auction this year ?

Looks like Ronchi has hit purple patch at late stage of his career;

Highest scorer of PSL, beating all current Pak international batsman is a big achievement.

Ronchi deserves chance in IPL (injury / banned player replacement)

 

[Convict]

What is odd/surprising is the availability of sandpaper on demand. I mean the leadership collectively made the decision to cheat and they just reached out and grabbed a piece of sandpaper, tucked it in their pocket and walked out to the field.

This just does not happen, unless there have been discussions on previous occasions and they were prepared. Which leads me to conclude that there is an ingrained culture of cheating in the team.

Sandpapering a bat is standard bat care procedure.

 

[Junaids]

Sandpapering a bat is standard bat care procedure.

I have several questions for you.

1. Do you accept that Steve Smith seemed at his press conference to think that conspiring to change the ball's condition with a foreign object was relatively unremarkable? He had no idea that the admission would end his career.

2. Do you accept that in Tests on flat tracks at Wellington, the MCG (twice), the Gabba and Durban, somehow Australia obtained vastly more reverse swing than the opposition could or did?

3. Do you accept that the answers to those questions raise the very strong possibility that Australia has been systematically using external objects to tamper with the ball throughout the Lehmann / Smith period, to a greater degree than any other current international team?

4. If so, do you accept that the rest of the team must have been complicit with such systematic, continuous cheating?

 

[barah_admi]

So Cricket Australia has sent its Integrity Director to South Africa to “find out what happened”. Ostensibly, given that Bancroft and Smith confessed, the purpose is to find out who has clean hands and can be he next skipper.

But what if they all knew?

What if this has been going on for the full 25 months that the Aussie bowlers have consistently obtained more reverse swing than the opposition?

And how come Steve Smith explicitly stated that he discussed the plan to cheat with the “leadership group” (universally considered to be Lyon, Warner, Hazlewood and Starc) but now says that by “leadership group” he meant “David Warner”?

So here are the questions which should be asked:

1. When did the ball tampering start? Specifically, was it used at Wellington against New Zealand in February 2016, at Melbourne against Pakistan in December 2016 and at Durban against South Africa in February 2018?

2. Who knew about the tampering? The whole team? The bowlers? The keeper? The coach?

3. Who did Steve Smith mean when he referenced discussion with the “leadership group”?

4. Where was the yellow strip obtained thtvwas used to fix? And when?

You know CA won't do anything, or maybe they'll add an extra ban onto the one already administered and just appoint a new captain. The reality is pretty much everyone knew, heck the 12th man had a walkie-talkie to discuss the matter...who was calling him? God? Hell no, i twas obviously someone in the coaching staff, likely Lehmann who had seen it on the cameras.

This is a case of systemic, institutionalised cheating.

 

[Convict]

I have several questions for you.

1. Do you accept that Steve Smith seemed at his press conference to think that conspiring to change the ball's condition with a foreign object was relatively unremarkable? He had no idea that the admission would end his career.

2. Do you accept that in Tests on flat tracks at Wellington, the MCG (twice), the Gabba and Durban, somehow Australia obtained vastly more reverse swing than the opposition could or did?

3. Do you accept that the answers to those questions raise the very strong possibility that Australia has been systematically using external objects to tamper with the ball throughout the Lehmann / Smith period, to a greater degree than any other current international team?

4. If so, do you accept that the rest of the team must have been complicit with such systematic, continuous cheating?

1. Yes

2. Given how easily this was caught where is the evidence? Or is every time a team manages to reverse the ball more than another evidence of cheating?

3. Again given how blatantly obvious and poorly hidden this was I don't see how they could have gotten away with it.

4. See above.

 

[Junaids]

1. Yes

2. Given how easily this was caught where is the evidence? Or is every time a team manages to reverse the ball more than another evidence of cheating?

3. Again given how blatantly obvious and poorly hidden this was I don't see how they could have gotten away with it.

4. See above.

Actually, I would refer you to your own reply to [MENTION=141580]USofA[/MENTION] about sandpaper.

I've attended 3 Australian Tests this season, and I attended 2 for each of the previous 2.

And I can assure you, without a high definition camera you cannot pick up this sort of action. I could tell at Wellington when Mitchell Marsh turned into Waqar Younis that the ball was being tampered with, and I walked around the ground (which is easy at the Basin Reserve) and I just couldn't see who was doing it. And I was specifically looking for it!

The cameramen are there to get every angle of play.

They only caught Bancroft on this occasion because that old nemesis of Australia Fanie De Villiers was convinced that Australia had tampered with the ball at Durban on an industrial scale two Tests ago and at Cape Town he narrowed it down to being Bancroft that was the most likely person to be doing it, and got SuperSport to fix a cameraman on Bancroft. And apparently it took almost two sessions of constant observation until he was careless enough for the yellow sandpaper to become visible.

 

[Oligochaetes]

Actually, I would refer you to your own reply to [MENTION=141580]USofA[/MENTION] about sandpaper.

I've attended 3 Australian Tests this season, and I attended 2 for each of the previous 2.

And I can assure you, without a high definition camera you cannot pick up this sort of action. I could tell at Wellington when Mitchell Marsh turned into Waqar Younis that the ball was being tampered with, and I walked around the ground (which is easy at the Basin Reserve) and I just couldn't see who was doing it. And I was specifically looking for it!

The cameramen are there to get every angle of play.

They only caught Bancroft on this occasion because that old nemesis of Australia Fanie De Villiers was convinced that Australia had tampered with the ball at Durban on an industrial scale two Tests ago and at Cape Town he narrowed it down to being Bancroft that was the most likely person to be doing it, and got SuperSport to fix a cameraman on Bancroft. And apparently it took almost two sessions of constant observation until he was careless enough for the yellow sandpaper to become visible.

WOW! That was one piece of smart detective work.

But dont you think Convict isnt the right person to be answering all this? I mean he isnt involved with the team in any way, he is just a fan.

 

[Napa]

I don't think BCCI will allow banned players in the IPL auction

I think BCCI should. The Indian public has a good relationship with the Australian players, and a life ban by CA would be too harsh.

 

[ManFan]

Actually, I would refer you to your own reply to [MENTION=141580]USofA[/MENTION] about sandpaper.

I've attended 3 Australian Tests this season, and I attended 2 for each of the previous 2.

And I can assure you, without a high definition camera you cannot pick up this sort of action. I could tell at Wellington when Mitchell Marsh turned into Waqar Younis that the ball was being tampered with, and I walked around the ground (which is easy at the Basin Reserve) and I just couldn't see who was doing it. And I was specifically looking for it!

The cameramen are there to get every angle of play.

They only caught Bancroft on this occasion because that old nemesis of Australia Fanie De Villiers was convinced that Australia had tampered with the ball at Durban on an industrial scale two Tests ago and at Cape Town he narrowed it down to being Bancroft that was the most likely person to be doing it, and got SuperSport to fix a cameraman on Bancroft. And apparently it took almost two sessions of constant observation until he was careless enough for the yellow sandpaper to become visible.

How did Fanie realize that it was Bancroft?

 

[austerlitz]

Warner has been tampering regularly for years.He has been wearing a fingerband allegedly to protect his fingers but strangely doesn't use them while batting,only when fielding and he's been the main ball polisher for 2 yrs or snly recently bancroft became ball polisher after questions raised on warner's fingerbands and stories that he bragged to english players about tampering in drinking session.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...icketer-David-Warner-tampered-ball-Ashes.html
http://www.news.com.au/sport/cricke...s/news-story/da30528ac13585d1442ed134f0b1d20a

Bancroft was also caught putting sugar into his pocket during interval.

 

[Kroll]

How did Fanie realize that it was Bancroft?

Didn't actually, but this post will shed some light on it.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-demerit-pts-Update-468&p=9680151#post9680151

 

[ManFan]

Didn't actually, but this post will shed some light on it.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-demerit-pts-Update-468&p=9680151#post9680151

You gotta give it to Fannie. He ruined Warnie’s 12 wicket-haul at the SCG 24 years ago to win by 5 runs and now this.

What a legend.

And he knows the difference between SA and PAK wickets that allow reverse swing.

 

[Salma_T]

Why are majority of Australians (including my husband) in denial that it is the first time it happened, first time they got caught I say. For Smith to say it was discussed at lunch makes me think it is a regular occurrence.

 

[USofA]

Why are majority of Australians (including my husband) in denial that it is the first time it happened, first time they got caught I say. For Smith to say it was discussed at lunch makes me think it is a regular occurrence.

What gives it away more than anything else is the ready availability of sand paper in the locker room. They had to be prepared/pre-planned to discuss at lunch, put the sand paper in their pocket and walk out to play.

 

[Convict]

What gives it away more than anything else is the ready availability of sand paper in the locker room. They had to be prepared/pre-planned to discuss at lunch, put the sand paper in their pocket and walk out to play.

Sandpaper is regularly uses in routine but care. It would be odd if there wasn't sandpaper available.

 

[AMSS]

Sandpaper is regularly uses in routine but care. It would be odd if there wasn't sandpaper available.

But why did Smith choose to lie in the presser that it wasn't sandpaper but a tape to collect granules? That was such a cock and bull story I figured Smith was prepared to lie his way through this episode, just like the DRS drama in India.

 

[Convict]

But why did Smith choose to lie in the presser that it wasn't sandpaper but a tape to collect granules? That was such a cock and bull story I figured Smith was prepared to lie his way through this episode, just like the DRS drama in India.

Trying to reduce the punishment?

Don't think he expected the domestic reaction in Australia to be so massive.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Great work [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]. I’ve observed you’ve been constantly calling out odd things happening on the ground. Couple of pieces from the first test that I distinctly remembered.
——
Of note, the outfield is lush and green and there is only one disused strip three across from the one in use, and it has a thick covering of grass.

That is to say, you can’t scuff the ball by throwing it from the outfield onto a rough disused strip.

In other words, the only way either side is going to reverse it in this Test is by ball tampering. It’s as simple as that.

——
Oh look, it’s reversing after 27 overs!

I remember being at Wellington two years ago on a strip where after Day 1 the par score was 500, and then Mitch Marsh started to reverse the ball around corners!

Australia are very skilled at getting reverse swing even when the outfield is smooth and grassy.

 

[Junaids]

Great work [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]. I’ve observed you’ve been constantly calling out odd things happening on the ground. Couple of pieces from the first test that I distinctly remembered.
——
Of note, the outfield is lush and green and there is only one disused strip three across from the one in use, and it has a thick covering of grass.

That is to say, you can’t scuff the ball by throwing it from the outfield onto a rough disused strip.

In other words, the only way either side is going to reverse it in this Test is by ball tampering. It’s as simple as that.

——
Oh look, it’s reversing after 27 overs!

I remember being at Wellington two years ago on a strip where after Day 1 the par score was 500, and then Mitch Marsh started to reverse the ball around corners!

Australia are very skilled at getting reverse swing even when the outfield is smooth and grassy.

Thanks!

I didn’t want to say “I told you so”.

Those were my original comments during the Durban Test!!!!!!

Anybody who believes this started on Day 4 at Cape Town must believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

 

[Oligochaetes]

So guys, Was it sandpaper or tape? I am a bit confused here.

 

[Junaids]

So guys, Was it sandpaper or tape? I am a bit confused here.

It was almost certainly sandpaper that Bancroft had, but he claimed it was tape.

The other question is whether any other players were tooled up too.

 

[Oligochaetes]

It was almost certainly sandpaper that Bancroft had, but he claimed it was tape.

The other question is whether any other players were tooled up too.

Yeah. It is possible that more than one player had those things in their pockets. How is the investigation going on? I read somewhere that Lehmann has resigned.

 

[MenInG]

'Desperation' behind Aussie actions: Otis Gibson

Australia's win-at-all-costs mentality is behind the ball-tampering scandal that has engulfed their cricket and they should now look hard at how they play the game, says South Africa coach Ottis Gibson.

Gibson, who was appointed Proteas coach last year and whose side leads Australia 2-1 with a Test to play in the current series, believes desperation had got the better of Steve Smith and his team in Cape Town, where on day three they were found to have engaged in ball-tampering.

Investigation begins as decision looms
"The Aussies have said it themselves, the brand of cricket they play is win-at-all-costs," Gibson said, adding that Australia's relatively comfortable 4-0 win in the Ashes against England might have played a part.

"When you look at the Ashes, they were never really behind in any of the games, they won quite comfortably.

"Here they have been behind a couple of times and perhaps that desperation came into it. It's a shame that something like this had to happen for them to have to have a look at themselves."

Players past and present react to tampering saga

Australian captain Steve Smith has admitted that the pressure of being behind in the third Test in Cape Town led to an orchestrated attempt to alter the condition of the ball to aid reverse swing and gain an advantage

"Every team, since the beginning of reverse swing, tries to get the ball to reverse," Gibson said. "They skim it in, they bounce it in, they try and get it rough. The spinner gets his hand in the dirt and rubs it on the ball. Everybody has got a way of getting the ball to go a little bit further.

"Perhaps the desperation that they were behind in the game meant they took it that step further. It's unfortunate."

Gibson says the ball-tampering controversy is such a big story not only because of the calculated nature of the act, but also due to Australia's rich and successful cricket history.

"Especially with what Steve Smith said, that it was planned by a few of them, makes it an even bigger topic for people to talk about," he said.

"Cricket Australia is a hundred-year-old organisation and they have been the envy of the world in terms of winning World Cup and so on. They have had great teams and great players for a long time.

"Those great players from the past will now feel like their good name has been tarnished a bit, so people have a right to be upset about it."

Qantas tour of South Africa

South Africa squad: Faf du Plessis (c), Hashim Amla, Temba Bavuma, Theunis de Bruyn, Dean Elgar, Heinrich Klaasen, Quinton de Kock, Keshav Maharaj, Aiden Markram, Morne Morkel, Chris Morris, Wiaan Mulder, Lungi Ngidi, Duanne Olivier, Vernon Philander, Kagiso Rabada, AB de Villiers.

Australia squad: Steve Smith, David Warner, Cameron Bancroft, Pat Cummins, Peter Handscomb, Josh Hazlewood, Jon Holland, Usman Khawaja, Nathan Lyon, Mitchell Marsh, Shaun Marsh, Tim Paine, Jhye Richardson, Chadd Sayers, Mitchell Starc.

Warm-up match: Australia beat South Africa A by five wickets. Report, highlights

First Test Australia won by 118 runs. Scorecard

Second Test South Africa won by six wickets. Scorecard

Third Test South Africa won by 322 runs. Scorecard

Fourth Test Wanderers, Johannesburg, March 30-April 3. Live coverage

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/ott...ustralia-win-all-costs-desperation/2018-03-27

 

[hadi123]

Feel like the series has been overshadowed

 

[Monsee]

With Faf as captain and in charge of the test team and his own past skills in ensuring at least one win (that we know of), any SA member (player or coaches) should not not be lecturing anyone about the causes of 'Aussie Desperation' and all, just my opinion!

 

[Saj]

Can someone explain what was behind du Plessis actions when it was zipgate.

 

[Junaids]

Smith and Warner were warned about ball tampering 16 months ago

Source: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricke...-smith-and-warner-before-20180329-p4z6xh.html

It looks harder and harder to accept Cricket Australia’s finding that it hadn’t happened before.

One of their own senior officials had had to warn Steve Smith to stop it during a domestic game in November 2016.

And there is email evidence to prove it!

 

[Varun]

This part will be a white lie of the entire cover up forever. May come up in Warner's book at some point.

Pity for Steve Smith - he was going so well on and off the field, and ends up in this muck.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

The other person people are forgetting is David Saker, he got up to dodgy stuff when he was coaching england.

When Saker became a domestic coach in Australia, his deputy admitted to ball tampering during a game ( grabbed a ball that was hit for a boundary and grazed it against the concrete before throwing it back again).

Now he is again at the centre of a ball tampering scandal yet he has somehow escaped thus far

 

[Ab Fan]

So, if Smith and Warner were doing ball-tampering from last 1.5-2 years, isn't it ridiculous that Lehmann and Australian pacers, particularly, Starc and Hazlewood, wont have been aware of this?

Personally, if this wasn't a one-off incident, then there is no reason to believe that Lehmann and the other members of leadership group weren't aware of it.

 

[Junaids]

So, if Smith and Warner were doing ball-tampering from last 1.5-2 years, isn't it ridiculous that Lehmann and Australian pacers, particularly, Starc and Hazlewood, wont have been aware of this?

Personally, if this wasn't a one-off incident, then there is no reason to believe that Lehmann and the other members of leadership group weren't aware of it.

Starc, Hazlewood, Lyon and Cummins are members of that same New South Wales domestic team which was told to stop ball tampering in November 2016.

The exact same “leadership group”!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Don't want to say that the cover ups were obvious, but there are other teams who have had remarkable success with ball tamp....err...I mean reverse swing in recent years apart from the Aussies. I'm living in one right now.

 

[Convict]

Yeah only Smith and Warner ball tampered
Junaids.

 

[Junaids]

Yeah only Smith and Warner ball tampered Junaids.

I just used the Sydney Morning Herald’s own headline!

As you know, my issue with Australia since Starc ran through South Africa before my eyes at Durban has been that they were obtaining reverse at Kingsmead before even the 30th over, which is as ludicrous as a Flo Jo world record.

Nobody else in history has got reverse there before 45 overs, yet Australia got it after 27 overs!

 

[Syed1]

If there is one guy who is wholeheartedly enjoying this incident it is [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] uncle

 

[Convict]

Source: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricke...-smith-and-warner-before-20180329-p4z6xh.html

It looks harder and harder to accept Cricket Australia’s finding that it hadn’t happened before.

One of their own senior officials had had to warn Steve Smith to stop it during a domestic game in November 2016.

And there is email evidence to prove it!

Just read the article and this is a whole new level of ridiculous post even by your pathetic standards Junaids.

In that match NSW apparently were throwing the ball in to bounce the ball the in a particular way.

Clearly in the same level as sandpapering the ball.

 

[Convict]

If there is one guy who is wholeheartedly enjoying this incident it is [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] uncle

Yes for a guy who allegedly lives in Australia and somehow has time to always travel around the place and watch matches and meet big shots like David Peever he has a curious hate of the team.

 

[Junaids]

Yes for a guy who allegedly lives in Australia and somehow has time to always travel around the place and watch matches and meet big shots like David Peever he has a curious hate of the team.

You know how much I admire Cummins and Paine.

Australia appointed a weak and unintelligent skipper with warner as his deputy. And paid the consequences.