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There never was/will never be a Pakistani leader like The Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah

Lonewarrior

Lonewarrior

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no one is like him in Pakistan's history, no one. not even IK, he is not even close to him , and certainly not ZAB . so stop comparing IK or ZAB with him. i dont understand why people compare IK with him.

IK is honest by heart but he has no Political will to change the scenario of Pakistani politics on the grand scale . IK is keep playing the game of establishment which is set by thre rules. if he wants to make any change thn he should play out of the box of establishment . till thn keep playing the game and get no result .

I salute to my Quaid he was a brave man .
 
Jinnah was not an administrator, he was the figure head for a political movement, and a political ideology, whose skill lay in connecting with layman and galvanising them into support for said ideology.

he died at a very young stage in pakistan's history, otherwise, unfortunately i have no doubt he would have been dragged into the cess pit of Pakistani politics despite being the only universally admired personality in the newly formed state.

so comparing any administerial leader to Jinnah is nonsensical as the latter was an ideological leader, and he died before his administrative abilities could really be tested.
 
Tbf if Jinnah was around today, he would struggle to create a new political party and take it to lead the nation.

Pakistani authorities have sold out their nation for a bag of pakoras, all institutions are compromised, corrupt.

Unless the powerful and corrupt are bought to justice, things will never change, whether its Jinnah or IK in charge.
 
IK is nothing in front of the Quaid. How can IK be compared to the man who founded the nation. Quaid Jinnah was a great supporter of women's rights where as IK tells the world how women are raped due to how they dress. You can not say that Quaid Jinnah would not have created a Pakistan today. IK also would not have created a world class Cricket side today with our current players.

IK would never have created a Pakistan in the 1940's for he lacks the intelligence and political maturity. By and large IK supports extremists there is no doubt about that. Now he is trying to justify the Taliban's banning of education for women in Afghanistan as a cultural norm. The Quaid would never agree with many of IK's views.
 
Jinnah would have been a great leader for different Pakistan. Not this one. He was a secular man and rationalist. In fact he would have been assinated today for some of his personal habits. Not flawless by any stretch. Made some fundamental errors which also led to split of Pakistan. Ofcourse had he lived, maybe things could have been different. The constitution and role of army would have been curtailed
 
wasim-fan said:
Jinnah would have been a great leader for different Pakistan. Not this one. He was a secular man and rationalist. In fact he would have been assinated today for some of his personal habits. Not flawless by any stretch. Made some fundamental errors which also led to split of Pakistan. Ofcourse had he lived, maybe things could have been different. The constitution and role of army would have been curtailed
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Thing is that Pak would have been very different had the Quaaid lived even five more years. He did not get the opportunity to groom the next generation of educated politicians. The country was politically hijacked by people who didn't want Pakistan to come in to being in the first place. After the country was created these Indian supporters became all Pak patriots.
 
No one in Pakistan could have ever matched the Quaid's zeal.
 
May Allah grant Jannat to out greatest. May Allah grant us leaders that try to emulate his vision and leadership.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We, as a nation, have failed to live up to the Quaid's ideals. Nothing undermines a nation more than lack of unity. Adherence to the Quaid's ideology can make us defeat all the odds. My resolve on this Day is to keep working for the well-being of our people. <a href="https://t.co/aZJwLN8X9H">https://t.co/aZJwLN8X9H</a></p>— Shehbaz Sharif (@CMShehbaz) <a href="https://twitter.com/CMShehbaz/status/1606892077807472640?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 25, 2022</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">One of the main reasons we have been unable to realise our Quaid Mohammad Ali Jinnah's vision for Pakistan is absence of Justice through Rule of Law which ensures equality before the law for all citizens. This leads to haqeeqi azadi, true freedom, & protection of citizens rights.</p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1606952699538407425?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 25, 2022</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This in turn protects them from elite capture of the State & govt. Unfortunately in Pakistan bec Rule of Law was never allowed to be established, elite capture of the country has allowed powerful institutions & mafias to remain above the law as if it was their right.</p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1606952702000660480?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 25, 2022</a></blockquote>
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people are saying that he was not an administrator, needs to understand that it was him , who took back the area of Azad Kashmir .
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"Happy Birthday Sir"<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/QuaidEAzam?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#QuaidEAzam</a><br>Nation Proud On You <a href="https://t.co/O38AjOpZXL">pic.twitter.com/O38AjOpZXL</a></p>— Faiza Rajpoot (@FaizaRa62995937) <a href="https://twitter.com/FaizaRa62995937/status/1606737999047401472?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 24, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
PakLFC said:
Thing is that Pak would have been very different had the Quaaid lived even five more years. He did not get the opportunity to groom the next generation of educated politicians. The country was politically hijacked by people who didn't want Pakistan to come in to being in the first place. After the country was created these Indian supporters became all Pak patriots.
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The Generals would have killed him like they did with Liaquat Ali Khan
 
If you look at Quaids vision and how we ended up in the 75 years of lootocracy with no justice, no law, very little education, cant pay our way in the World- its chalk and cheese.
 
No one can match Jinnah as a leader of people in Pakistan's history. Not IK, not Bhutto, not Zia no one. What he achieved couldn't have been achieved by anyone else in our political history. Another great attribute of Jinnah was his ability to galvanize and revolutionize the people without ever breaking a law.

Even his political rivals respected him (like Gandhi. the respect was mutual I believe)

He stayed true to his word by not becoming the PM of Pakistan once it was created. I doubt any of our politicians would be able to do that?

When Jinnah passed away, Pakistan was thrown to the wolves ready to devour it.

May you rest in heaven Quaid.
 
He was a product of the british system and for the british system. Had he been a politician in today's pakistan no one would've paid any attention to him. It's laughable that these waderas aka "politicians" hang portraits of him on their walls and make a mockery of his principles on a daily basis. This is the same they do with our religion aswell.
 
Mr. Jinnah's dream....

ZygWuWb.png
 
Happy birthday Quaid! May Pakistan achieve all that you visioned
 
PakLFC said:
No. The Quaid would not have given the Generals that much power to begin with.
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It makes no difference. These are immoral money grabbing thugs. Thankfully our Quaid didn't have to live through the trauma of seeing his PK becoming a fiefdom of the mafia .
 
Bewal Express said:
It makes no difference. These are immoral money grabbing thugs. Thankfully our Quaid didn't have to live through the trauma of seeing his PK becoming a fiefdom of the mafia .
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If the overall leader lays down a strong moral code then it greatly effects future generations. Had the Quaid implemented a strong and honest generation of future poilticians it would have made every difference. We lost the father of the country some one year after it's birth. This is the same effect a child would have if their Dad dies at 1 years.
 
PakLFC said:
If the overall leader lays down a strong moral code then it greatly effects future generations. Had the Quaid implemented a strong and honest generation of future poilticians it would have made every difference. We lost the father of the country some one year after it's birth. This is the same effect a child would have if their Dad dies at 1 years.
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The combined might of British rulers and Congress couldn't hold Jinnah back in achieving his goal. These crooks of today would have stood no chance against him. Plus the public was with him as well and our people hadn't been corrupted to the core back then.

The great man was dying of TB and lung cancer (and old age considering the life expectancy back then was lesser than what it is now) and was fragile during the last few years yet he kept moving on.

But one problem was there was big gulf in the prowess and ability of Jinnah and all other politicians in his party. It was very much a one man show. Even Liaquat Ali Khan (who was the second most influential person in AIML) was called a weak PM by Jinnah during his last days.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
The combined might of British rulers and Congress couldn't hold Jinnah back in achieving his goal. These crooks of today would have stood no chance against him. Plus the public was with him as well and our people hadn't been corrupted to the core back then.

The great man was dying of TB and lung cancer (and old age considering the life expectancy back then was lesser than what it is now) and was fragile during the last few years yet he kept moving on.

But one problem was there was big gulf in the prowess and ability of Jinnah and all other politicians in his party. It was very much a one man show. Even Liaquat Ali Khan (who was the second most influential person in AIML) was called a weak PM by Jinnah during his last days.
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I feel the great Quaid would have gotten new supporters after the country was formed. He was exhausted after independence not wanting any more of politics at that stage of his life. Well of course the Quaid stood head and shoulders over the rest in his party.
 
PakLFC said:
If the overall leader lays down a strong moral code then it greatly effects future generations. Had the Quaid implemented a strong and honest generation of future poilticians it would have made every difference. We lost the father of the country some one year after it's birth. This is the same effect a child would have if their Dad dies at 1 years.
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I am fast coming to the opinion that our elite wants no one to stand in its way of grand theft and our Quaid would also been their victim.
 
It is normal for every nation to glorify the founding father, not find any faults with him & basically view him as a mythical figure of sorts.

Jinnah was a fascinating man but he has been subjected to the same glorification as all founding fathers.

However, he was not without his faults & inconsistencies. He was a confused man who took more U-turns than Imran Khan, blamed the British but was an open Anglophile in his personal life & also made some politically incorrect moves & was a victim of idealism.

His decision to declare Urdu as state language in East Pakistan was a suicidal move that sowed the seeds of the 1971 independence movement.

He clearly made East Pakistan look inferior to West Pakistan in spite of their greater population. He did not give the Bengali language its due respect.

Also, much like Sirhindi (the founding father of the Two Nation Theory), Syed Ahmed & Allama Iqbal, he wrongly believed that religion was a strong enough binding force to overcome sociocultural & economic differences.

The entire premise of the Two Nation Theory was wrong & this is why it failed with the independence of East Pakistan.

It was right about the fact that Muslims & Hindus will find it hard to coexist, but it was wrong about the fact that Muslims can coexist even if there are major sociocultural & economic differences.

People of West & East Pakistan were not one nation, they had nothing in common other than religion which did not prove to be a strong binding force. Two Nation Theory overestimated the strength of Muslim unity.

This is why East Pakistan was subjected to systematic discrimination by West Pakistan & it eventually lead to a separatist movement. The only saving grace is that Jinnah & the other proponents of the Two Nation Theory did not live long enough to see the destruction of their idealistic theory.

In reality, there was no such thing as Two Nations in the Indian subcontinent. Pakistan should not have been created in this fashion & India should not have been this one huge country with so many cultures grouped together.

This region would have been much more stable & peaceful if it was divided into several small nations like Europe. Instead of India, Pakistan & Bangladesh, we should have had at least 6-7 autonomous countries.

Punjab, Sindh, Bengal, Kashmir, South India, Northern Pakistan etc. should all have been independent states.
 
it pains me to say this, but beyond the creation of Pakistan, the quaids only real legacy is the instilling of a messiah complex in Pakistani people (although religion also plays a huge part), they have literally zero idea of how institutions, administration and states evolve, and the work and timescale required to have those changes show results. The people of Pakistan will forever wait for a messiah who will only disappoint.

the Pakistani economy would have to outgrow the global average per capita average economy by 2% for 65 years for Pakistan to be just a top half global economy. there is no human, quaid, or otherwise who can physically do this. the only solution is institutional and social reforms. alas the existence of this thread is further evidence that any such progress is extremely unlikely to occur.
 
ElRaja said:
it pains me to say this, but beyond the creation of Pakistan, the quaids only real legacy is the instilling of a messiah complex in Pakistani people (although religion also plays a huge part), they have literally zero idea of how institutions, administration and states evolve, and the work and timescale required to have those changes show results. The people of Pakistan will forever wait for a messiah who will only disappoint.

the Pakistani economy would have to outgrow the global average per capita average economy by 2% for 65 years for Pakistan to be just a top half global economy. there is no human, quaid, or otherwise who can physically do this. the only solution is institutional and social reforms. alas the existence of this thread is further evidence that any such progress is extremely unlikely to occur.
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With the destruction of all institutions under Bajwa, we are doomed to be 3rd rate forever unless some miracle happens. We had a chance with Mush but again Mush took the flats in London from the Saudis than show his loyalty to PK and he gave the NRO to the people he claimed for criminals. Then when IK came he needed support to help bring the criminals to justice but Bajwa as we didn't know then, but know now, was blackmailing and being blackmailed by the mafia families. Result is the disaster of the NRO 2. Result-total loss of support for the army and a judiciary that no trusts. Its so depressing
 
Bewal Express said:
With the destruction of all institutions under Bajwa, we are doomed to be 3rd rate forever unless some miracle happens. We had a chance with Mush but again Mush took the flats in London from the Saudis than show his loyalty to PK and he gave the NRO to the people he claimed for criminals. Then when IK came he needed support to help bring the criminals to justice but Bajwa as we didn't know then, but know now, was blackmailing and being blackmailed by the mafia families. Result is the disaster of the NRO 2. Result-total loss of support for the army and a judiciary that no trusts. Its so depressing
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i dont want to make this about people, what you highlight is again indicative of weak institutions with no checks and balances. i go of into a million tangents on individual points but bajwa is not an exception, the people of the system, not the elite, all the people, accept the system, and the system is guaranteed to produce institutional weakness, and as i said earlier, no one person, has the physical life span, or competence to rectify this. its not until the average person says they have had enough of the underlying social order that anything will change.
 
ElRaja said:
i dont want to make this about people, what you highlight is again indicative of weak institutions with no checks and balances. i go of into a million tangents on individual points but bajwa is not an exception, the people of the system, not the elite, all the people, accept the system, and the system is guaranteed to produce institutional weakness, and as i said earlier, no one person, has the physical life span, or competence to rectify this. its not until the average person says they have had enough of the underlying social order that anything will change.
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The average person doesn't know any different. It's the people in power that hold institutions back with their criminality.
 
Bewal Express said:
The average person doesn't know any different. It's the people in power that hold institutions back with their criminality.
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don't want to derail this thread, but i completely disagree with you here. feel free to make another topic if u wish to discuss this, ill post up in their when i get a chance next.
 
Change of guards’ ceremony held at the mausoleum of the Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah on his 147th birth anniversary, ARY News reported on Monday.

An elegant change of guards’ ceremony held at the Quaid’s mausoleum in Karachi today to pay tribute to the Father of the Nation.

A smartly turned-out contingent of the Pakistan Military Academy Kakul assumed the ceremonial guards’ duty.

Commandant PMA Major General Iftikhar Hassan Chaudhry was the chief guest in the change of guards’ ceremony at Mazar-e-Quaid.

Commandant PMA laid floral wreath at the Mazar-e-Quaid and paid respects.

The nation is celebrating Quaid’s birth anniversary today across the country with enthusiasm and national spirit.

President Arif Alvi arrived at Mazar-e-Quaid and laid floral wreath and observed Fateha this morning.

Caretaker Chief Minister of Sindh Justice Maqbool Baqar, Governor Kamran Tessori and provincial ministers were also accompanied with the president.

Source: ARY

arynews.tv

Change of Guards ceremony held at mausoleum of Quaid-e-Azam

KARACHI: Change of guards’ ceremony held at the mausoleum of the Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah on his 147th birth anniversary, ARY News reported on
arynews.tv arynews.tv
 
ElRaja said:
it pains me to say this, but beyond the creation of Pakistan, the quaids only real legacy is the instilling of a messiah complex in Pakistani people (although religion also plays a huge part), they have literally zero idea of how institutions, administration and states evolve, and the work and timescale required to have those changes show results. The people of Pakistan will forever wait for a messiah who will only disappoint.
Click to expand...
This is an interesting point about.

All societies at a time of instability or crisis potentiality have a critical mass that is receptive to the leader, who to the followers, seems to embody heroism and offer hope and is perceived as leading a ‘sacred’ mission.

I wonder, though, if in Pakistan the idea of a ‘messianic’ leader has some extra purchase (as implied above). Sufi ideas and idioms are deeply embedded in society. Sufism provides one model of charismatic leadership. Then there is the trope in the Muslim scholarly tradition of autobiographical writings, which in the words of Oliver Scharbrodt, author of a book on the Egyptian reformer Muhammad ‘Abduh, “revolves around crisis and resolution.” As Scharbrodt writes:

“The young scholar or adept experiences a spiritual crisis being dissatisfied with the state of knowledge transmitted to him or his spiritual constitution and is close to abandoning the scholarly or spiritual path he hoped to follow. However, the accident encounter with a charismatic figure or a key text responds to the young adept’s yearning for an alternative vision of knowledge or religiosity and guides the initially disillusioned disciple to an approach which constitutes his later fame and reputation. Sufism often holds a prominent place in solving the young scholar’s intellectual and spiritual crisis.”

Without wishing to overstate the argument, perhaps such ideas leave Pakistani society as more responsive to the pull of political leadership that has some ‘messianic’ connotations.

***

In Benares in February 1946, the Naqshbandi Sufi - Pir Jamaat Ali Shah - defended Jinnah from his Muslim critics: “Think of Jinnah Sahib whatever you like, but I say that Jinnah Sahib is ‘Wali Allah’.”
 
KB said:
“The young scholar or adept experiences a spiritual crisis being dissatisfied with the state of knowledge transmitted to him or his spiritual constitution and is close to abandoning the scholarly or spiritual path he hoped to follow. However, the accident encounter with a charismatic figure or a key text responds to the young adept’s yearning for an alternative vision of knowledge or religiosity and guides the initially disillusioned disciple to an approach which constitutes his later fame and reputation. Sufism often holds a prominent place in solving the young scholar’s intellectual and spiritual crisis.”

Without wishing to overstate the argument, perhaps such ideas leave Pakistani society as more responsive to the pull of political leadership that has some ‘messianic’ connotations.”
Click to expand...

there may be some truth to this, but i would be more likely to accept this argument if the average contemporary Pakistani had any serious spiritual or sufi leaniings.

i would argue that a lack of any institutional framework, from childhood to adulthood, means that the vast majority of pakistanis do not actually understand how institutions work. pakistani society works or patronage, networks and social transactions, they do not have the socio-political experience of what a non-individualised institution is.

now the problem is that there is no endogenous philosophy or system of rule native to Pakistan, so all they can do is import ideas to fix on to the remnants of the imperial state apparatus the brits left behind in 47, a proto democratic state, with no institutional strength to protect the democratic process.

islam, which is practically incompatible with that system, has a hegemony on the collective consciousness which leaves no room for attempts to even build upon or adapt other western and eastern ideas of administration and rule.

and returning to my initial point, jinnah, unfortunately, ends up being exactly the kind of totem who can be used to justify this lack of intellectual effort in trying to understand what an institutional, or institutional framework should represent in a Pakistani context.
 
Many Pakistanis believe Imran Khan is like the second coming of Quaid Jinnah. U-turn or Taliban Khan is no way near Quaid Jinnah.
 
PakLFC said:
Many Pakistanis believe Imran Khan is like the second coming of Quaid Jinnah. U-turn or Taliban Khan is no way near Quaid Jinnah.
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Nobody comes close to Quaid-e-azam. He was a man having a different league. Once in a century type leader.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Nobody comes close to Quaid-e-azam. He was a man having a different league. Once in a century type leader.
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I am glad you agree with me. We need to get this message to the cultists who worship former womanizer and playboy IK as being our saviour. IK is not even close to Mandela never mind our nation's creator.
 
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