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This Asia Cup has shown that Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan were not the problem for Pakistan

Disagree. Top order gave Pakistan a blazing start and that’s where Rizbabar like to bat. They would have struggled on this pitch. Babar especially struggles against Kuldeep.
 
Agha,Hussain Talat should be dropped alongside Haris and Rauf.

Babar should come back in to the xi and bat at 3.
 
msb314 said:
Rizwan is a significantly better T20 player than Agha and I don’t even like him…
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RIZWAN and Agha are from the same mould though.

Both cannot play a range of proper cricketing shots, cannot accelerate and will accumulate runs. RIZWAN just accumulates more and statpad more, wastes (plays) way more balls.
 
Hawkeye said:
RIZWAN and Agha are from the same mould though.

Both cannot play a range of proper cricketing shots, cannot accelerate and will accumulate runs. RIZWAN just accumulates more and statpad more, wastes (plays) way more balls.
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Agha triggers collapses though. That is no good either. He puts pressure on himself and the non striker and both end up getting out.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Agha triggers collapses though. That is no good either. He puts pressure on himself and the non striker and both end up getting out.
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My point still stands that both have absolutely no place in modern white ball cricket.

The likes of Babar can definitely play. One or two textbook batsmen are fine if others are proper T20 batters.
 
It does seem insane from the outside that these two are not in the team unless they are SO toxic to be unbearable. But the reality is - India are the T20 WC champions. Even with the insane pressure they brought on themselves by letting the government and Gambhir (probably) dictate their stupid decisions and statements, they were good enough to beat Pak. Imagine the two teams being friendly. It would've been a sound thrashing. Qudrat needs to be a little worthy to get nizam stature. Just because a certain outcome might be the most satisfying, doesn't mean it will be the one that happens. It doesn't work like that. CT'17 team were 8/10 times going to be beaten by that Indian team, but they still had some worthy players for destiny to turn luck in its favor.
 
Hawkeye said:
My point still stands that both have absolutely no place in modern white ball cricket.

The likes of Babar can definitely play. One or two textbook batsmen are fine if others are proper T20 batters.
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Pakistan made an attempt to match the fire power of these modern T20 batting units. But they couldn't quiet do it. They do hit more sixes now. But very high number of dot balls, lack of big overs. Both are explainable. They try to play same straight slog against every ball. They miss a 4 and connect one or two. Hence not enough big overs, lot of dot balls.
 
BreadPakoda said:
Disagree. Top order gave Pakistan a blazing start and that’s where Rizbabar like to bat. They would have struggled on this pitch. Babar especially struggles against Kuldeep.
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If babar and rizwan was batting 4 and 5 today we would have posted 175....but they don't agree to bat other than opening position.....
 
pillionrider said:
It does seem insane from the outside that these two are not in the team unless they are SO toxic to be unbearable. But the reality is - India are the T20 WC champions. Even with the insane pressure they brought on themselves by letting the government and Gambhir (probably) dictate their stupid decisions and statements, they were good enough to beat Pak. Imagine the two teams being friendly. It would've been a sound thrashing. Qudrat needs to be a little worthy to get nizam stature. Just because a certain outcome might be the most satisfying, doesn't mean it will be the one that happens. It doesn't work like that. CT'17 team were 8/10 times going to be beaten by that Indian team, but they still had some worthy players for destiny to turn luck in its favor.
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CT 17 team will thrash this current team 9 out of 10 times....
 
Katwalindian said:
If babar and rizwan was batting 4 and 5 today we would have posted 175....but they don't agree to bat other than opening position.....
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Babar wouldn’t do well at 4, his game is playing proper cricketing shots in the powerplay against pacers, he then slows down against the spinners after the powerplay but keeps it ticking. If he comes in at 4, he is basically coming in against spinners after the powerplay so he won’t play freely. He either plays top 3 or not at all.
 
Hawkeye said:
RIZWAN and Agha are from the same mould though.

Both cannot play a range of proper cricketing shots, cannot accelerate and will accumulate runs. RIZWAN just accumulates more and statpad more, wastes (plays) way more balls.
Click to expand...
Rizwan is far better.....he was no 1 rank for long time and you cant do that if you are mediocre....
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Rizwan is a tulla who knows his limitations and Haris is a tulla who doesn't.

That's where Rizwan tends to win.

Occupy the crease for long periods of time and hit a leg side hack once in a while and pretend to be a batsmen while clowning around.

Babar is a special case.

His fans make him seem like an ATG when in essence he is a weak and mediocre player who never has never shown up except once or twice in his life to get his team wins.

He can definitely find a place in ODI and Test team and maybe even T20 (if the rest of batsmen are good hitters) but that's about it.

He is nowhere close to being even as good as Anwar, Inzimam or Younis Khan.
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Rizwan averages 42 in SENA in test cricket....he is best wicket keeper batsman in pakistan....I don't think haris can average even 10 in that...
 
Major said:
When you are getting the same scores even after dominating the pp, than were Babar and Rizwan really the issue here?

Pakistan gave 9 wickets for 33 runs in the final after being 113 for 1.

We are back at square 1
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This bc is only saying this because Misbah hand picked Babar and Rizwan as Pakistan’s T20 opening combination when he was coach.

He once admitted that he supported the Misbah more than the Pakistan team, so do not be fooled by this agenda in play.
 
In response to the OP, Babar and Rizwan were selfish.

Babar choked in big matches and was woeful against spin. He also has no power game.

Babar was badly exposed in the 2022 WT20 where he played the whole tournament but somehow ended up with a strike rate of less than run a ball. This should have been the end of his T20I career.

Babar is the biggest fraud in T20 cricketing history.

If Rizwan is willing to lose his ego and start putting the team’s interest first, I have no issue with him returning to the side because at least he has power game on the leg-side and he’s much better with the gloves than Haris.

Babar and Rizwan needed to be dropped so they can be taught a lesson. They’re not untouchable and are therefore not an automatic selection. They’ll need to have the work ethic and show an eagerness to improve like everyone else.
 
Pakistan all needed today is run a ball at the end and posts 170 and india will not able to chase on this wicket but they threw away the advantage from own hands....
 
After the departure of Kohli and Sharma , this Indian team is not very strong , its just Pakistan team is very weak led by a dumb captain who can't bat bowl or lead the team, acn only chew gum . Farhan is the only good batter and Shaheen the only good bowler. Even SL and BD gave tough time to current Indian team. England, Australia and NZL will easily beat India in upcoming WC.
 
pillionrider said:
It does seem insane from the outside that these two are not in the team unless they are SO toxic to be unbearable. But the reality is - India are the T20 WC champions. Even with the insane pressure they brought on themselves by letting the government and Gambhir (probably) dictate their stupid decisions and statements, they were good enough to beat Pak. Imagine the two teams being friendly. It would've been a sound thrashing. Qudrat needs to be a little worthy to get nizam stature. Just because a certain outcome might be the most satisfying, doesn't mean it will be the one that happens. It doesn't work like that. CT'17 team were 8/10 times going to be beaten by that Indian team, but they still had some worthy players for destiny to turn luck in its favor.
Click to expand...
Look, the Indian team won — congrats! But let’s have a little grace. Despite all the humongous resources and big egos, the performances against Sri Lanka and Pakistan were… well, marginal. Political pressure was on both teams, yet you scraped through on a sliver’s edge, sprinkled with manic brain fades and some questionable man management from Pakistan. By the numbers, India is Asia’s No. 1 — but only just, much smaller margin than ex-cricketers and social media rants would have you believe. The rest is speculation.
 
moghul said:
After the departure of Kohli and Sharma , this Indian team is not very strong , its just Pakistan team is very weak led by a dumb captain who can't bat bowl or lead the team, acn only chew gum . Farhan is the only good batter and Shaheen the only good bowler. Even SL and BD gave tough time to current Indian team. England, Australia and NZL will easily beat India in upcoming WC.
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This team beat the crap out of ENgland and SA only recently. India B team beat Australia 4-1. That team had Jaiswal, RUturaj, Iyer at the top of the order.
 
I would happily replace Salman and Haris with Babar and Rizwan in the middle order with Hasan Nawaz replacing Talat.

Haris should play only in SENA fast flat tracks , he is more of a reflex batter against quick bowlers on fast pitches with no lateral movement. Any movement from both pace or spin and on slow wicket and he has no answer for anything.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
This team beat the crap out of ENgland and SA only recently. India B team beat Australia 4-1. That team had Jaiswal, RUturaj, Iyer at the top of the order.
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That was then , in current form SKY and Gill are useless , Bumbhra is found out ( in T20 ) , still a good team but not the best in the world and no one with aura and mental strength of Kohli and to some extent Sharma in current team, its beatable.
 
moghul said:
After the departure of Kohli and Sharma , this Indian team is not very strong , its just Pakistan team is very weak led by a dumb captain who can't bat bowl or lead the team, acn only chew gum . Farhan is the only good batter and Shaheen the only good bowler. Even SL and BD gave tough time to current Indian team. England, Australia and NZL will easily beat India in upcoming WC.
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Mate we aren’t strong after Sachin Sehwag, after Rohit Kohli stop this already.

ICT in T20 has been performing after Roko as well against too teams.

Our issue is SKY and Gauti being useless , but players are skilled.
 
moghul said:
That was then , in current form SKY and Gill are useless , Bumbhra is found out ( in T20 ) , still a good team but not the best in the world and no one with aura and mental strength of Kohli and to some extent Sharma in current team, its beatable.
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Bumrah is found out coz he has 3-4 bad games?
 
Pak fans consistently say we aren’t strong after this that this that.. I think Indian players are skilled, we have issues yes but they are doing good..
We won the T20 Wc unbeaten after Dhoni, except one game easily won the T20 Asia cup too, it didn’t even go until last ball..
 
moghul said:
That was then , in current form SKY and Gill are useless , Bumbhra is found out ( in T20 ) , still a good team but not the best in the world and no one with aura and mental strength of Kohli and to some extent Sharma in current team, its beatable.
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lol India lost to pakistan twice with Kohli and sharma in UAE conditions. This unit is way better minus Gill/SKY. THey have replacements ready
 
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JaDed said:
Pak fans consistently say we aren’t strong after this that this that.. I think Indian players are skilled, we have issues yes but they are doing good..
We won the T20 Wc unbeaten after Dhoni, except one game easily won the T20 Asia cup too, it didn’t even go until last ball..
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jnaveen1980 said:
lol India lost to pakistan twice with Kohli and sharma in UAE conditions. This unit is way better minus Gill/SKY. THey have replacements ready
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Being the T20 WC champions is kind of how most people acknowledge the quality of a team. Some Pak fans will always find ways to disrespect the current team. One way to do it is to talk about the past players being better. Bet Sharma, Gill and Bumrah will have their fans here in about 15 years time :jimmy
 
pillionrider said:
Being the T20 WC champions is kind of how most people acknowledge the quality of a team. Some Pak fans will always find ways to disrespect the current team. One way to do it is to talk about the past players being better. Bet Sharma, Gill and Bumrah will have their fans here in about 15 years time :jimmy
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Yeah , the other thread they don’t respect Sachin lol the dude has performed in 3 wcs against them.
 
People glorifying Babar and Rizwan like these two giants didn’t lose to a USA team made up of desi truck drivers and IT professionals.

Babar is perhaps the most low IQ & nepotistic captain I have ever seen who prioritized his own comfort over the needs of the team.

If he and Rizwan come, there’s no way they should be allowed to open. Babar should come 1 down and Rizwan at 4.

Babar’s idiotic mindset is partly the reason why Pakistan cricket refuses to develop.
 
chinaman00 said:
People glorifying Babar and Rizwan like these two giants didn’t lose to a USA team made up of desi truck drivers and IT professionals.

Babar is perhaps the most low IQ & nepotistic captain I have ever seen who prioritized his own comfort over the needs of the team.

If he and Rizwan come, there’s no way they should be allowed to open. Babar should come 1 down and Rizwan at 4.

Babar’s idiotic mindset is partly the reason why Pakistan cricket refuses to develop.
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If Babar and Rizwan come back, there is no way they can open the innings. Babar should bat at number 3 and Rizwan in the middle order
 
There is no combination of players that can consistently compete with SENA + India currently.

Rizwan was terrible but I can see Babar making a soft comeback in the South Africa series.
 
The biggest issue is the lack of game awareness when playing the top teams, that’s something that cannot be taught. Players from top teams know how to absorb pressure and try to put it back on you, it’s a back and forth of mindset rather than only skill.

Yesterday the body language of our players was defeatist, even when the crowd or people watching believed India were under the pump. Sorry to say, but this generation of our cricketers will never be able to compete against the top teams as they just don’t seem to believe they can win.

Shaheen is your one and only world class player, and it shows on the field.
 
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