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Time for England to sack Trevor Bayliss

Not quite true. Swing bowlers (Alderman, Dale, McDermott, Fleming, Funky Miller etc) have prospered here. You just need to be able to swing the Kookaburra ;)

All those bowlers could hit the deck when the ball lost its shine, these guys can't. And I did not say anything about swing bowlers not succeeding.
 
This talk of one-paced attack, offspinner, boring conventional English bowling is getting a bit overcomplicated and overstated. To win Test matches anywhere you just have to be good enough.

England took 20 wickets consistently in Australia in 2010/11 and they did not have an express pace bowler nor did they have a ripping leggy. Broad, who is rated by many cricket watchers outside England as England’s best bowler since Bob Willis, actually missed most of the series due to his pre-surgery ankle and England played four bowlers.

What England did have then was Swann and Anderson at their respective peaks, Bresnan having his one good Test series ever, and the excellent Tremlett having his one Test series ever where he did not get injured at some point. That was enough then.

England are just not good enough at the moment. Anderson is a wily old dog but within that we have to accept that he is getting old, Broad is spitting his dummy out and going through the motions, Moeen is too injured to be bowling and they might as well ‘fess up to it, Wood and Finn are both made of glass, there is no experience or quality elsewhere, etc.
 
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Broad should not be mentioned with Dukerson. He's a far more complete bowler. He's doing his job here, just doesn't have any hit the deck bowler to maintain pressure from the other side. All his partners are floaty bowlers that are easy to negotiate on bouncy pitches. If you can't hit the splice consistently, you will not get wickets here. Broad is capable, the rest aren't.

Wood would've helped.

Broad has a marginally better return overseas than Anderson. But he is down on pace, has been for a while.

The attack should be Broad and Wood with the new ball and Anderson as a tight third seamer reversing it about. Stokes is a capable fourth seamer with a few fivefers in him. Crane should play. Let him have a go at the tail in the first dig, then bowl and bowl in the second.
 
This talk of one-paced attack, offspinner, boring conventional English bowling is getting a bit overcomplicated and overstated. To win Test matches anywhere you just have to be good enough.

What England did have then was Swann and Anderson at their respective peaks, Bresnan having his one good Test series ever, and the excellent Tremlett having his one Test series ever where he did not get injured at some point. That was enough then.

And excellent batting from one to seven.
 
Broad has a marginally better return overseas than Anderson. But he is down on pace, has been for a while.

The attack should be Broad and Wood with the new ball and Anderson as a tight third seamer reversing it about. Stokes is a capable fourth seamer with a few fivefers in him. Crane should play. Let him have a go at the tail in the first dig, then bowl and bowl in the second.

As one would expect. You guys play too many tests. He's still got bounce and that's all you need here. Accuracy and bounce. If there were two more seamers like Broad, even of lesser quality, Australia would self destruct.
 
Broad should not be mentioned with Dukerson. He's a far more complete bowler.

I take it back. Since 2010 Anderson averages 28 overseas, Broad 29.

This Clouderson/Dukerson business is revealed as nonsense when you bother to look at the numbers.
 
All those bowlers could hit the deck when the ball lost its shine, these guys can't. And I did not say anything about swing bowlers not succeeding.

Hmm Ok, Dale, Fleming, Alderman, Miller were definitely not hit the deck bowlers at any stage (Anderson has more height & pace than most).
 
And excellent batting from one to seven.


Yes, decent attack- variety coming from Chris Tremlett extreme height, Swann spin & a bunch of green tracks which England played much better than Oz on.

Main figure there was scoreboard pressure provided by peak Cook & an impressive batting unit.
 
Hmm Ok, Dale, Fleming, Alderman, Miller were definitely not hit the deck bowlers at any stage (Anderson has more height & pace than most).

Dale and Fleming were/are excellent exponents of reverse swing. Steyn hits the deck quite hard and Fleming generated enough to keep the batsmen honest. Height does not always equal bounce. Anderson does not have more pace or bounce. He collapses in his action and doesn't really put anything on top of the ball, everything's behind it.
 
Anderson last 8 away series:

India - 30.25
NZ - 37
Australia - 43.92
Windies(Dukes ball) - 18

Pakistan - 15.61 4xMasood, 3xMisbah, 2xRahat, 2xMalik, 1xAzhar, 1xYounis. Did not affect the series one bit. As misleading stats get.

South Africa - 43
India - 53.50
Australia - 50.33

Dukerson. Case closed.
 
I take it back. Since 2010 Anderson averages 28 overseas, Broad 29.

This Clouderson/Dukerson business is revealed as nonsense when you bother to look at the numbers.

Last time i looked, since 2010 , Anderson has 107 wickets from 31 matches at an avg of 31 and getting worse by every year. His record is skewed by certain factors as indicated by others.
 
Last time i looked, since 2010 , Anderson has 107 wickets from 31 matches at an avg of 31 and getting worse by every year. His record is skewed by certain factors as indicated by others.

If you're taking since 2010 to mean from the end of 2010 then the stats are 105 wickets @ 29.47. If you're taking it as meaning since the start of 2010 then the stats are 130 wickets @ 29.73.
 
England just have a very poor team. You can bring the greatest coach and they would still play like this. Their bowling depends on over the hill pace combo who have never been that great outside England anyways. Their batting is a joke and Root has been poor in Australia and Cook baring that one series is the same. What can a coach do?
 
Back to my opening post in the thread.

England on Day 3 in Adelaide - I’m here - needed to show the discipline and restraint that Smith showed at the Gabba and that Marsh showed here.

Instead they lost Vince and Root to outrageous wafts outside offstump.
 
In hindsight [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] made a really good point. It's time to move on from the failed Trevor Bayliss experiment imo.
 
Anderson last 8 away series:

India - 30.25
NZ - 37
Australia - 43.92
Windies(Dukes ball) - 18

Pakistan - 15.61 4xMasood, 3xMisbah, 2xRahat, 2xMalik, 1xAzhar, 1xYounis. Did not affect the series one bit. As misleading stats get.

South Africa - 43
India - 53.50
Australia - 50.33

Dukerson. Case closed.

Eh? That England did not win in UAE is no reflection on Anderson’s bowling but of England’s inability to play wrist spin. Your misleading stat statement misleads. And which series did he average 43.92 in? On the Strauss tour he averaged 26.
 
Eh? That England did not win in UAE is no reflection on Anderson’s bowling but of England’s inability to play wrist spin. Your misleading stat statement misleads. And which series did he average 43.92 in? On the Strauss tour he averaged 26.

His tailender wickets did not affect us one bit.

2013/14.
 
Bayliss says he will step down in the Autumn of 2019 after the next Ashes and the WC. However, a series loss against either Pakistan or India this summer may well force him out sooner.

Will Bayliss make it through the summer unscathed?
 
Eh? That England did not win in UAE is no reflection on Anderson’s bowling but of England’s inability to play wrist spin. Your misleading stat statement misleads. And which series did he average 43.92 in? On the Strauss tour he averaged 26.

I presume that 43.92 average came about in the 'whitewash' Cook tour.
 
I presume that 43.92 average came about in the 'whitewash' Cook tour.

Reads about right. He was bowling with cracked ribs in the last two tests though.

That series was odd because five times out of five, Jimmy and Broad took early wickets first innings Aussie wickets, before Haddin hit fifty and got them out of trouble. Then Rhino and Johnny destroyed England, Jimmy had to bowl again on no rest, and got clattered in the second innings.
 
Reads about right. He was bowling with cracked ribs in the last two tests though.

That series was odd because five times out of five, Jimmy and Broad took early wickets first innings Aussie wickets, before Haddin hit fifty and got them out of trouble. Then Rhino and Johnny destroyed England, Jimmy had to bowl again on no rest, and got clattered in the second innings.

The overall theme of that period was that Andy Flower rode that team straight off the cliff. The 3-0 win over the summer Ashes masked a lot of gaping holes thanks to home conditions. Anderson was just one casualty.
 
The overall theme of that period was that Andy Flower rode that team straight off the cliff. The 3-0 win over the summer Ashes masked a lot of gaping holes thanks to home conditions. Anderson was just one casualty.

I agree. You could see something was wrong with Swann at the end of the English series and he should have retired then. Prior’s knee was failing. Poor Trott became mentally ill, and the KP boil was suppurating away.
 
England v Pakistan: Trevor Bayliss expects response from 'embarrassed' players

Coach Trevor Bayliss says he expects a response from his "embarrassed" England side in the final Test against Pakistan at Headingley on Friday.

England were thrashed by nine wickets in the opening Test at Lord's and have not won in eight Tests.

They will fall from fifth to sixth in the rankings if they lose in Leeds.

"We have shown in the past that when we haven't played very well, come the next one, we've pulled the finger out," Bayliss said.

"I'd be expecting they'll be a little embarrassed about the way they've played in this game and their performance in the next one will be better."

England lost by 340 runs against South Africa in the second Test last summer, but won the third Test by 239 runs.

They lost the second Test against West Indies by five wickets in September and won the third by nine wickets.

However, England have won only two and lost six of their past nine Tests at Headingley.

"The test will come in the next one. They've been up for it in the past," Australian Bayliss, 55, said. "We've just got to be better and more consistent."

England were bowled out for 184 in the first innings and 242 in the second at Lord's.

They lost four wickets for six runs on the fourth and final day, having lost 4-19 the previous evening.

England have passed 400 only twice in the past 17 innings, and former England captain Michael Vaughan said: "It looks to me like the team aren't listening."

Asked if his message was getting through to the players, Bayliss said: "Obviously not enough. You almost throw your hands up sometimes.

"But what can you do? We continually deliver that type of message and we're working on it in the nets."

England dropped five catches in Pakistan's first-innings 363.

"Once the first one goes down, it's like when we lose a wicket or two - the confidence goes down," Bayliss added.

"I'm almost at a loss sometimes."

England have called up Lancashire opener Keaton Jennings to replace Mark Stoneman at Headingley.

Pakistan captain Sarfraz Ahmed has been fined 60% of his match fee and the rest of the team 30% for a slow over-rate at Lord's. They were three overs short of their target.

Sarfraz, 31, will face a suspension if Pakistan commit a further breach within 12 months.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/44280202
 
Deserves the sack.England have lost six of their last 8 tests.Their performances since the Ashes began have gotten worse.
 
It's still the same reckless hard hands attacking batting garbage.
 
When the England Test team was strong, the ODI outfit was a shambles, now the reverse.
 
England's ODI and T-20 resurgence appears to have come at the expense of their test results. Time to go back to the drawing board.
 
The Test team has regressed under Bayliss. Regardless of the outcome of this series with India, there are serious weaknesses especially with the batting he hasn't addressed.
 
The ECB is so desperate to win the World Cup next year at home (which they very well might) that Test cricket has been sacrificed.
 
The ECB is so desperate to win the World Cup next year at home (which they very well might) that Test cricket has been sacrificed.

And I hardly think Bayliss is the one responsible for the good ODI results.

Put that all down to Morgan.
 
As I have said time and again,England are a mediocre test team.They somehow get away from criticism because of good LOI results.
 
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The Test isn't over yet, forget the series :)) England look more likely to win this series than India. Then again, if you were expecting England to destroy India this series, this team doesn't look to have tht ability
 
Retain him for LOIs as the combo of him and Morgan is working well and try someone new for tests
 
Bring back andy flower for test only.
Keep bayliss till 2019 for limited overs & then give it to fabrance after worldcup.
 
Bring back andy flower for test only.
Keep bayliss till 2019 for limited overs & then give it to fabrance after worldcup.

Flower became more and more demonic as time went on. It would be a bad move.
 
will make no difference..until cricket is not back on terrestial tv and more people start to play it, the coach can only do so much..also the institutional racism and classism in the game will continue to hamper english cricket..hence why youll see more curran type imports rather than homegrown players..
 
The ECB is so desperate to win the World Cup next year at home (which they very well might) that Test cricket has been sacrificed.

they wont..they lack that flair and mental edge teams like india and pakistan have..english players are over coached, soft and do not know what real hardship is..hence can never ultimately match teams with players who have to work hard for their cricket..
 
they wont..they lack that flair and mental edge teams like india and pakistan have..english players are over coached, soft and do not know what real hardship is..hence can never ultimately match teams with players who have to work hard for their cricket..

Well they’ve been hammering every other ODI team in the world for a while and they are ranked top. So they might win it. But either way I am not liking the “all eggs in one basket” approach that is being taken at the cost of the greatest form of cricket (Tests).
 
Trevor Bayliss defends England's Ashes selections despite failure to regain the urn

Head coach Trevor Bayliss has defended England's selections during the Ashes series and insists captain Joe Root is "under no pressure at all" despite the side's failure to regain the urn.

Defeat at Old Trafford on Sunday gave Australia a 2-1 lead in the series and ensured they retain the Ashes in England for the first time since 2001.

With England's top-order struggling, there has been criticism of the selectors' decision to persevere with the same batting personnel throughout the series but Bayliss argued the teams picked could have been 3-0 up after the first three Tests.

"I've been quite happy with the selections," he said. "The first thing you've got to say is 'who else is going to come in?' That's one point.

"After three Tests in this series, either team could have been up 3-0 I thought. We had our chances when they were 120-8 in the first Test, second Test we finished on top and the game was a draw and the third Test, Australia could have won that and the first two so, as I said, it could have been 3-0 either way.

"If you think about it that way, we can't have got the selections too wrong."

England have again kept faith with the same group of players for the fifth Test at The Oval although Bayliss says changes were considered.

"Yes, it was certainly discussed but over the last three or four years, one of the things we've spoken about is that we really want to give everyone an opportunity to prove themselves," he added.

"I think I've said before, give them one too many games rather than not enough. You might see some changes through the winter but a few of the guys looked like they were trying to do the right things and really gutsed it out on that last day [at Old Trafford] so we've decided to give them another opportunity."

However, Bayliss does not expect a change of captain following the Ashes despite calls for Root to step down to allow him to focus on his batting.

"He hasn't come under any questions from anyone making any decisions so he is under no pressure at all," Bayliss said.

"Everyone goes through periods where they might not score quite as many runs as they would like. I think the Australian team have bowled pretty well to him.

"Let's see how things go further down the line but from my point of view he's our premier batter and knowing the Australian way, they always try and target the opposition captain. He's batted well on occasions through this series when he's got a start. I don't see too many problems really."

https://www.skysports.com/cricket/n...-selections-despite-failure-to-regain-the-urn
 
Roy and Buttler have done NOTHING to merit selection in Test cricket.

Losing The Ashes at home is far worse than winning the World Cup was good.
 
Ed Smith and Bayliss have a fascination with LOI players in test team.

The ODI success came at the cost of the test team.

It kind of worked when Buttler was recalled as he had a solid 2018.

But picking Roy was unacceptable as he can't dig in like Buttler.
 
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