Trump: "Been paying Pak billions of dollars and they're housing the very terrorists we are fighting"

[Abdullah719]

Trump: "Been paying Pak billions of dollars and they're housing the very terrorists we are fighting"

(CNN) US President Donald Trump had tough words for Pakistan Monday, as he attempted to steer a new approach on Afghanistan.

"We can no longer be silent about Pakistan's safe havens for terrorist organizations," he said in a speech at Fort Myer in Arlington, Virginia.

"We have been paying Pakistan billions and billions of dollars, at the same time, they are housing the very terrorists we are fighting ... that must change immediately."

He also called on Pakistan's regional rival India, to "help us more with Afghanistan, especially in the area of economic assistant and development."

"We appreciate India's important contributions to stability in Afghanistan but India makes billions of dollars in trade from the United States and we want them to help us war with Afghanistan, especially in the area of economic assistance and development."


Tough talk

Washington has long accused Islamabad of not doing enough in efforts to stabilize Afghanistan.

In July, Secretary of Defense James Mattis informed Congress the US was withholding $50 million in funding from Pakistan because he was unable to certify that Islamabad "has taken sufficient action against the Haqqani Network," a branch of the Afghan Taliban.

US officials believe that much of the Haqqani leadership is based in Pakistan and some analysts believe eliminating their safe havens is critical to stabilizing Afghanistan.

Trump seemed to reference this in his speech Monday, saying that "Pakistan has much to gain from partnering with our effort in Afghanistan (and) much to lose from harboring criminals and terrorists."

But analysts warn following up tough talk with effective action may be a more difficult task.

"Pakistan has ironclad immutable strategic interests which dictate maintaining ties to groups like the Taliban," said Michael Kugelman, deputy director and senior associate for South Asia with the Asia Program at the Woodrow Wilson Center.

"It sees them as useful tools to keep Pakistan's enemy, India, at bay in Afghanistan."

Kugelman pointed out previous US Presidents have called on Islamabad to do more to crack down on terrorists operating within its territory.

"Trump didn't really offer any specifics on what the US will do to get Pakistan to change its ways," he said. "I'm left wondering will this be any different."


New US strategy took time

Trump has previously expressed reservations about the seemingly endless US military commitment in Afghanistan and questioned the objectives of staying there.

The President reached a decision on the future of the US strategy in Afghanistan on Friday after months of deliberation.

Trump's decision comes as Taliban militants have been resurgent in recent months, posting a series of recent gains against Afghan government forces, which are backed by a US-led coalition of NATO allies.

The United States first invaded Afghanistan on October 7, 2001, as part of Operation Enduring Freedom.

The Bush administration accused the country's then Taliban government of sheltering al Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden, who had masterminded the previous month's September 11 terrorist attacks.

The Taliban offered to hand over Bin Laden for trial, but only to a third country, rather than directly to the United States. Washington refused the offer and launched air and ground attacks, joined shortly thereafter by US allies.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/21/politics/trump-afghanistan-pakistan-india/index.html

 

[mmkextreme_1]

Official statement by Secretary of State Rex Tillerson:

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Do not allow our very stupid leaders to sign a deal that keeps us in Afghanistan through 2024-with all costs by U.S.A. MAKE AMERICA GREAT!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/403511109942247424">November 21, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Ismailtoca]

Lmao, increasing troops and trying to stop aid to pakistan at the same time. What a genius. How will you get to Afghanistan?

 

[sshakir411]

Lmao, increasing troops and trying to stop aid to pakistan at the same time. What a genius. How will you get to Afghanistan?

He never has to think about that lol

 

[Slog]

Ignorant clown!

USA will alienate Pakistan at its own risk

To maintain status quo or make its situation better, USA needs Pakistan. Not the other way around

 

[PakLFC]

Same boring and unimaginative speech. Pakistan will do what is best for itself. If those attacking Pakistan are not terrorists for America then the Afghan Taliban are not terrorists for Pak either. Send an equal number of body bags for the 5,000 or so troops waiting to board the flight to Afghanistan. The American's need a scapegoat for the humiliating defeat in Afghanistan. They have lost this war, simple. In China and Russia there are plenty of other choices for Pak as well.

 

[R0H1T]

Same boring and unimaginative speech. Pakistan will do what is best for itself. If those attacking Pakistan are not terrorists for America then the Afghan Taliban are not terrorists for Pak either. Send an equal number of body bags for the 5,000 or so troops waiting to board the flight to Afghanistan. The American's need a scapegoat for the humiliating defeat in Afghanistan. They have lost this war, simple. In China and Russia there are plenty of other choices for Pak as well.

Well that;s the reason why you;re in this mess in the first place, their extremists aren;t our terrorists, their Mullahs are our brothers (talking about the formation of Taliban) so on & so forth.

Then you wonder why people attach a certain reputation to countries.

 

[PakLFC]

Well that;s the reason why you;re in this mess in the first place, their extremists aren;t our terrorists, their Mullahs are our brothers (talking about the formation of Taliban) so on & so forth.

Then you wonder why people attach a certain reputation to countries.

Completely wrong! Mullah's have got nothing to do with this so keep them out of the debate. As I said if the American's don't accept those bombing Pak as terrorists then why should we do those killing their soldiers? You mean "certain countries have a reputation in the west and America in particular" when Pak refuses to do their dirty work. Well let it be so, Pakistan comes first for us! Next you will be saying that Pak should accept South American terrorists as that as well coz America says so. They got themselves in a mess in Afghanistan, now get out off it!

 

[R0H1T]

Completely wrong! Mullah's have got nothing to do with this so keep them out of the debate. As I said if the American's don't accept those bombing Pak as terrorists then why should we do those killing their soldiers? You mean "certain countries have a reputation in the west and America in particular" when Pak refuses to do their dirty work. Well let it be so, Pakistan comes first for us! Next you will be saying that Pak should accept South American terrorists as that as well coz America says so. They got themselves in a mess in Afghanistan, now get out off it!

What do you mean, do you deny training Mujaheddin for the Afghan war? I;m about the Taliban Mullahs, obviously what you interpret it as is upto you.

Would it really matter if they define them as terrorists, some already use your land, it;s not the US who;s harboring them? Though if you can prove that the US is still funding their good terrorists then that's a different story & no I;m not talking about the NA led govt in AFG.

Pak did their dirty work before & have used the same Taliban now & terrorists to do their dirty work in J&K, the latter was peaceful for a good 4+ decades before the armed insurgency began, ala Afghan style. You don;t tell me that your hands & souls aren't soaked in blood, they are & they'll continue to be till the area is rid of extremists!

 

[PakLFC]

What do you mean, do you deny training Mujaheddin for the Afghan war? I;m about the Taliban Mullahs, obviously what you interpret it as is upto you.

Would it really matter if they define them as terrorists, some already use your land, it;s not the US who;s harboring them? Though if you can prove that the US is still funding their good terrorists then that's a different story & no I;m not talking about the NA led govt in AFG.

Pak did their dirty work before & have used the same Taliban now & terrorists to do their dirty work in J&K, the latter was peaceful for a good 4+ decades before the armed insurgency began, ala Afghan style. You don;t tell me that your hands & souls aren't soaked in blood, they are & they'll continue to be till the area is rid of extremists!

So we trained them as it was the right thing at the time in the 1970's otherwise the Soviets were ready to cross Peshawar. I am talking about what is happening today not last century! Pak is mutual in Afghanistan, we should never agree with the American's just to put smiles on their faces. US funds everyone, what world do you live in??

Kashmir is a different issue altogether where the people are fighting for independence. It is a home grown movement that Indians are trying to blame on Pak. Those people your cruel army blinds and kills are not ISI agents or Pakistanis as much as you would like to believe. You calling them the Taliban shows how mislead you are! So what country has not made errors in the diplomacy front?? IoK was peaceful until the people decided they did not want to live with India anymore.

Look who is talking about innocent blood when the whole world can see what you are doing in IoK. How your terrorists like Yadav and Sarbjit have been caught red handed killing Pakistanis! How the likes of Bikram Singh and Ajit Doval openly confess about instigating terrorism in Pakistan. Typical Indian hypocrisy from you.

 

[akki]

So we trained them as it was the right thing at the time in the 1970's otherwise the Soviets were ready to cross Peshawar. I am talking about what is happening today not last century! Pak is mutual in Afghanistan, we should never agree with the American's just to put smiles on their faces. US funds everyone, what world do you live in??

Kashmir is a different issue altogether where the people are fighting for independence. It is a home grown movement that Indians are trying to blame on Pak. Those people your cruel army blinds and kills are not ISI agents or Pakistanis as much as you would like to believe. You calling them the Taliban shows how mislead you are! So what country has not made errors in the diplomacy front?? IoK was peaceful until the people decided they did not want to live with India anymore.

Look who is talking about innocent blood when the whole world can see what you are doing in IoK. How your terrorists like Yadav and Sarbjit have been caught red handed killing Pakistanis! How the likes of Bikram Singh and Ajit Doval openly confess about instigating terrorism in Pakistan. Typical Indian hypocrisy from you.

India is foolinsh to take the case of yadav to world court if he was terrorist ? did pakistan take the case of ajmal kasam and all to world court when he was said terrorist ?
kashmir was never a home grown movement . Now it is home grown, after all the ****** things happened since last 2 decades.

 

[R0H1T]

So we trained them as it was the right thing at the time in the 1970's otherwise the Soviets were ready to cross Peshawar. I am talking about what is happening today not last century! Pak is mutual in Afghanistan, we should never agree with the American's just to put smiles on their faces. US funds everyone, what world do you live in??

Kashmir is a different issue altogether where the people are fighting for independence. It is a home grown movement that Indians are trying to blame on Pak. Those people your cruel army blinds and kills are not ISI agents or Pakistanis as much as you would like to believe. You calling them the Taliban shows how mislead you are! So what country has not made errors in the diplomacy front?? IoK was peaceful until the people decided they did not want to live with India anymore.

Look who is talking about innocent blood when the whole world can see what you are doing in IoK. How your terrorists like Yadav and Sarbjit have been caught red handed killing Pakistanis! How the likes of Bikram Singh and Ajit Doval openly confss about instigating terrorism in Pakistan. Typical Indian hypocrisy from you.

And they did fund you & your military+economy for decades, oh the irony!

Take that BS elsewhere, Kashmir was peaceful till thte 80's or were you born just yesterday?

And the people who pay for stone pelting, Indian conspiracy right?

That's not diplomacy & again where did you infer that militants, trained by Pak are Mullahs? The Afghan insurgency gave you the idea to try that crap in J&k, deny all you want but it won;t change history!

WTH are you talking about Sarbjit was killed in jail, without due process! Yadav, or Jadhav as some of you call him, might well be guilty but then your evidence is weak! If it weren;t you would've had a civilian court try him & he;d be dead by now!

Cute & BS, calling for insurgency, even in Pak is wrong, but they've never admitted to it. Do you have some actual verified footage where people in the Indian govt have accepted that, not masala news?

 

[PakLFC]

India is foolinsh to take the case of yadav to world court if he was terrorist ? did pakistan take the case of ajmal kasam and all to world court when he was said terrorist ?
kashmir was never a home grown movement . Now it is home grown, after all the ****** things happened since last 2 decades.

Well you took the case to the courts not that it makes any difference. As for Kasab only the very few pro Indian news channels in Pak accepted him to be a Pakistani, most have not! Again you are blaming Pak for what your soldiers are doing in IoK. I am not having it for a minute when the whole world can see it is you soldiers who are the terrorists in IoK. Every freedom movement and revolution starts from somewhere. So according to you Pak should do what is right for the American's in Afghanistan where as your army is free to kill innocent Kashmiris in IoK. Just shows how flawed your logic is!

 

[akki]

Well you took the case to the courts not that it makes any difference. As for Kasab only the very few pro Indian news channels in Pak accepted him to be a Pakistani, most have not! Again you are blaming Pak for what your soldiers are doing in IoK. I am not having it for a minute when the whole world can see it is you soldiers who are the terrorists in IoK. Every freedom movement and revolution starts from somewhere. So according to you Pak should do what is right for the American's in Afghanistan where as your army is free to kill innocent Kashmiris in IoK. Just shows how flawed your logic is!

Yes pakistan should do whatever is right for them.Yes may be indian army are commiting atrocities in kasmir nowdays.some innocents people always going to die in these type of scenarios. but it all started from outside . it was not a homegrown movement. it has become one now but it doesnt matter.because indians will never let kashmir go .
Though kashmiris are free to go anywhere in the country or outside too if they want to.
Pakistan should have never listened to america or anyone before too.

 

[PakLFC]

India never takes responsibility for causing bomb blasts in Baluchistan, FATA amongst other places. Yet, they expect is Pak to take responsibility for all the chaos in India. I am surprised they have not blamed the ISI for all the flooding's in India. Oh the hypocrisy is astounding here! Pak is to blame for American soldiers dying in Afghanistan as if we invited them there! Pak is responsible for the situation in IoK but whiter then white India and the US never cause trouble anywhere! The current China-India stand off must be Pak's fault as well!

 

[PakLFC]

Yes pakistan should do whatever is right for them.Yes may be indian army are commiting atrocities in kasmir nowdays.some innocents people always going to die in these type of scenarios. but it all started from outside . it was not a homegrown movement. it has become one now but it doesnt matter.because indians will never let kashmir go .
Though kashmiris are free to go anywhere in the country or outside too if they want to.
Pakistan should have never listened to america or anyone before too.

It always was a homegrown movement and still is, simple! What do you mean "maybe", the world is watching your soldiers blinding innocent people in IoK so don't you dare blame Pak for that. Pak will do what is right for it as I have stated. Every situation is different requiring diplomacy. Not "some" but hundreds thousands of innocents have died in IoK.

 

[Waseem]

Well that;s the reason why you;re in this mess in the first place, their extremists aren;t our terrorists, their Mullahs are our brothers (talking about the formation of Taliban) so on & so forth.

Then you wonder why people attach a certain reputation to countries.

Americans won't get out of this mess with their selective attacks either. All the terrorists who attacked Pakistan came from Afghanistan and if US has full ocntrol of Afghanistan with thousands of troops there then surely they are letting these attackers to roam freely.
Pakistan has been fighting it's own war against these terrorists and surely they will target the ones killing even kids in schools and parks. Why would they pick fights with people not attacking them when they have so much other mess to handle??

 

[R0H1T]

Americans won't get out of this mess with their selective attacks either. All the terrorists who attacked Pakistan came from Afghanistan and if US has full ocntrol of Afghanistan with thousands of troops there then surely they are letting these attackers to roam freely.
Pakistan has been fighting it's own war against these terrorists and surely they will target the ones killing even kids in schools and parks. Why would they pick fights with people not attacking them when they have so much other mess to handle??

They have what <20K troops now, as compared to say 100k+ just half a decade back. They are not in control of Afghanistan quite clearly, nor are Afghan forces. It doesn't help Pak's own security situation, if there are any terrorists crossing over from the Afg border, they can be killed in combat (if they don't accept peaceful surrender) or they should be rotting in jails, if captured. You can't have these groups "favor us so we do support them" approach, it continually undermines the NA govt in AFG.

 

[Waseem]

They have what less than 20K troops now, as compared to say 100k+ just half a decade back. They are not in control of Afghanistan quite clearly, nor are Afghan forces. It doesn't help Pak's own security situation, if there are any terrorists crossing over from the Afg border, they can be killed in combat (if they don't accept peaceful surrender) or they should be rotting in jails. You can't have these groups "favor us so we do support them" approach, it continually undermines the NA govt in AFG.

Agreed but it's matter of priority. Why would Pakistan attack a group that has never attacked Pakistan when there are thousands others who are attacking Pakistan on daily basis?? Surely they have to pick their fights when there is immense threat from terrorists attacking from Afghanistan.

In an ideal world, no one taking arms against innocent people should be spared but Pakistan doesn't have that many options after losing 70,000 people.

 

[R0H1T]

Agreed but it's matter of priority. Why would Pakistan attack a group that has never attacked Pakistan when there are thousands others who are attacking Pakistan on daily basis?? Surely they have to pick their fights when there is immense threat from terrorists attacking from Afghanistan.

In an ideal world, no one taking arms against innocent people should be spared but Pakistan doesn't have that many options after losing 70,000 people.

That depends, do you think the terrorists bombing Kabul are linked in any way to the school attackers? Even if loosely affiliated to the Afghan Taliban, any terrorist should be put behind bars if captured in Pak. Sure don't engage in needless melee but you can't let them go back to Afg unchecked.

 

[MenInG]

Dont get pesonal with each other

 

[Major]

The guy is right. Pakistan was housing bin laden and co and yet we werr getting aid.


Trump should negotiate the release of afridi

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

This is playing out perfectly, I WANT HIM TO MESS WITH US !!

Had been waiting 8 months to get some sort of rile up out of him and finally he snapped....

This is going to be beautiful indeed

 

[Yossarian]

I wonder which other country has had an input in drafting this speach? The one being asked to 'join in' with economic 'modernisation' of Afghanistan?

There was an article recently which stated that the real reason Trump has been forced into this increase in Troop numbers is because some of Trump's friends are ready to sign big mining contracts in Afghanistan and need the extra troops to provide security for their mining operations.

Let's face it, the geography of Afghanistan is such that even the most powerful foreign military can win many battles there but will never win the war. Each time the U.S. and Afghan army forces win a chunk of territory with a concerted push, the Taliban just wait it out until the extra troop numbers reduce again, and then just go back and regain the territory from which they were forced out. That's been the pattern for 16 years now and it won't change with the new announcement.

The simple fact that the American politicians and generals don't seem to understand is that these Taliban are not outsiders, they are the sons, fathers and brothers of the people that live there, the people that the Americans wish to 'liberate', and as soon as the 'foreigners' kill one of them, other family members rise up to take their place and 'seek revenge' for the death of their family member(s). Even more so if those killed by the 'foreigners' are seen as being 'collateral damage'.

By siding with the 'foreign army', the Indians may build roads and infrastructure, but as soon as the 'foreign army' are not in control anymore, the Indians will become target no. 1 for being stooges of the 'foreign army'

 

[Markhor]

Trump has now expanded US military presence and/or airstrikes in EVERY combat theatre he inherited from Obama.

What a "non-interventionist" he's turning out to be.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

It's too late, Chinese have already gained ground. The Americans can now only come to destabilise the Chinese foothold by supporting their own friendly terrorists, but it won't work. They had 16 years to make good in Afghanistan but they chose to ignore it like before even to the extent that they let the Indians in. Now they finding it hard to stomach Chinese expanding their interests.

I predict CPEC increasingly being targeted by the so called TTP.... same old tricks.

 

[the Great Khan]

[MENTION=83349]R0H1T[/MENTION] sorry mate but your completley unaware of the sitaution as are many people outside of Pakistan and to be honest within the country. Things have changed drastically since 2008. Trump can do nothing. The current american policy is good cop bad cop. trump makes some stupid statements and then rex plays the good cop. The US cannot afford to alienate Pakistan in the current environment. Also they are not serious about solving the problem in afghanistan. If they were they would have announced a full deployment of 30,000-50,000 troops. They would be looking to deal with ISIS in Nuristan, khost and other provinces on the border with Pakistan.

What have they done? nothing. I can guarantee you that those 4000 troops will not be deployed near our border to stop ISIS but will be used to strengthen these groups to launch covert ops into Pakistan.

Secondly his comments about the billions of dollars, thats our money. Not americas. They are paying us for using our roads. Now they are free to not pay us and we will simply hike up the taxes on supplies passing through our ports and roads. We can also make sure their supplies face delays and other red tape. Pakistanis are very good at red tape and delays. The fauj has not forgotten Salala. They will never make that error again.

Thirdly he is asking India to help fund some operations within afghanistan. Modi will simply flip the bird. The indians at most may pay for some roads and hospitals but I doubt the indian govt is keen onw asting anymore money in afghanistan if the taliban will just blow them up. 40% of afghanistan is now under taliban contral. 20-30% is contested meaning it can fall back into taliban control. Also nobody is talking about Iran's current involvment and Russia's. Ignore Trumps nonsense and read what tillerson is saying. the generals and the state department will ensure that Pakistan is on board.

The key test will be the delivery of our new Cobra's. if they are sanctioned then we will understand the direction this is heading.

Finally the US has been caught red handed supporting terrorists in Pakistan and will not want that made public too much. They wont go beyond the 4000 troops in the short term. Most of those will be special forces so expect some escalation of terror in pakistan. But the fauj are ready.

 

[gasgemba]

Good, strong words from trump. The terror menace has been allowed to grow for too long.

 

[Reddy]

The guy is right. Pakistan was housing bin laden and co and yet we werr getting aid.


Trump should negotiate the release of afridi

The only rational Pakistani post on this thread, As for other people I would just say that this kind of idiotic chest thumping does not help when you need Billions of dollars in Aid and the master exploiter China is never going to give free money, they give loans at high interest rates for projects executed by Chines companies which use Chinese Labour, basically taking a loan for your own slavery.

America can still give you free money but only if Pakistan is ready to lose their strategic assets AKA Terrorists, Pakistan can never win or significantly harm India and even Afghanistan now by using these Terrorists. So, Just get rid of these Terrorist groups which will be WIN, WIN, WIN situation for Pakistan as firstly you will benefit socially, secondly you will get good relations with your neighbouring countries along with the associated trade and tourism and thirdly you get free money and support from the Sole Superpower of the World USA.

 

[TQ89]

Trump is right. We did house bin laden and refused to admit even though Afghan and US governments were blaming us for that

 

[jusarrived]

It's too late, Chinese have already gained ground. The Americans can now only come to destabilise the Chinese foothold by supporting their own friendly terrorists, but it won't work. They had 16 years to make good in Afghanistan but they chose to ignore it like before even to the extent that they let the Indians in. Now they finding it hard to stomach Chinese expanding their interests.

I predict CPEC increasingly being targeted by the so called TTP.... same old tricks.

Yes we have seen how the Chinese "interest" expands in countries like SL , Bang , Venezuela , Cambodia etc lol

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Yes we have seen how the Chinese "interest" expands in countries like SL , Bang , Venezuela , Cambodia etc lol

None of those countries share a border with china to provide alternative route for china outside of the Malaca Straits....

Why do Indians burn every time china is mentioned?

 

[Eagle_Eye]

The only rational Pakistani post on this thread, As for other people I would just say that this kind of idiotic chest thumping does not help when you need Billions of dollars in Aid and the master exploiter China is never going to give free money, they give loans at high interest rates for projects executed by Chines companies which use Chinese Labour, basically taking a loan for your own slavery.

America can still give you free money but only if Pakistan is ready to lose their strategic assets AKA Terrorists, Pakistan can never win or significantly harm India and even Afghanistan now by using these Terrorists. So, Just get rid of these Terrorist groups which will be WIN, WIN, WIN situation for Pakistan as firstly you will benefit socially, secondly you will get good relations with your neighbouring countries along with the associated trade and tourism and thirdly you get free money and support from the Sole Superpower of the World USA.

Why don't you take that advice and actually act on it yourself and maybe the whole region will be much safer....

 

[R0H1T]

[MENTION=83349]R0H1T[/MENTION] sorry mate but your completley unaware of the sitaution as are many people outside of Pakistan and to be honest within the country. Things have changed drastically since 2008. Trump can do nothing. The current american policy is good cop bad cop. trump makes some stupid statements and then rex plays the good cop. The US cannot afford to alienate Pakistan in the current environment. Also they are not serious about solving the problem in afghanistan. If they were they would have announced a full deployment of 30,000-50,000 troops. They would be looking to deal with ISIS in Nuristan, khost and other provinces on the border with Pakistan.

What have they done? nothing. I can guarantee you that those 4000 troops will not be deployed near our border to stop ISIS but will be used to strengthen these groups to launch covert ops into Pakistan.

Secondly his comments about the billions of dollars, thats our money. Not americas. They are paying us for using our roads. Now they are free to not pay us and we will simply hike up the taxes on supplies passing through our ports and roads. We can also make sure their supplies face delays and other red tape. Pakistanis are very good at red tape and delays. The fauj has not forgotten Salala. They will never make that error again.

Thirdly he is asking India to help fund some operations within afghanistan. Modi will simply flip the bird. The indians at most may pay for some roads and hospitals but I doubt the indian govt is keen onw asting anymore money in afghanistan if the taliban will just blow them up. 40% of afghanistan is now under taliban contral. 20-30% is contested meaning it can fall back into taliban control. Also nobody is talking about Iran's current involvment and Russia's. Ignore Trumps nonsense and read what tillerson is saying. the generals and the state department will ensure that Pakistan is on board.

The key test will be the delivery of our new Cobra's. if they are sanctioned then we will understand the direction this is heading.

Finally the US has been caught red handed supporting terrorists in Pakistan and will not want that made public too much. They wont go beyond the 4000 troops in the short term. Most of those will be special forces so expect some escalation of terror in pakistan. But the fauj are ready.

Let's leave aside the US for a second, what's the endgame for Pak in this tug of war? You said that many terrorists cross the border & come inside Pak, are these pro Pak or anti Pak elements?

Let's assume they are pro Pak, by that I mean they do not want to hurt Pak for whatever reason, but anit US & anti NA govt in Afg. Should you allow them to head back, I mean if you can capture or kill them in combat? Now obviously you have every right to do whatever you want to with anti Pak elements crossing the border, but then that's where your objectivity comes into play.

A peaceful Afg, not necessarily pro/anti India or Pak, is what benefits everybody. If you make Afg safe, why do you think they'll pick India over Pak, with China on you side? Also a safer & saner Pak/Afg relationship means that you would get rid of terrorists on at least one side of the border & possibly eliminate Pro ISIS, Al Qaeda & Taliban elements forever.

Afg relationship should be your priority, even if means appeasing them in the interim. How do you do that ~ capture or kill anti NA elements on your soil, even if they cross the border just to hide from attacks in the north. I doubt NA would be thankless if you make peace for & with them, at least that's what South Asia is known for.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

He also called on Pakistan's regional rival India, to "help us more with Afghanistan, especially in the area of economic assistant and development."

"We appreciate India's important contributions to stability in Afghanistan but India makes billions of dollars in trade from the United States and we want them to help us war with Afghanistan, especially in the area of economic assistance and development."

Seems to me the real message was one sent to India. No one forced the USA to pay Pakistan to do it's dirty work, they chose that option themselves. But it looks like Trump thinks India should be doing a lot more in Afghanistan because they are benefiting from favourable trade conditions with the US.

 

[Stewie]

Are we really losing sleep over what he said last night? This guy changes his stripes into spots overnight. Wait for him to come back in a day or so to throw som either ally under the bus and sing praises of North Korea. He is a buffoon!

From what he said though, if they want to stay long term in Afghanistan, it only argues well for Pakistan and the world. Hope he sticks to this now!

 

[Syed1]

Good luck in Afghanistan.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Are we really losing sleep over what he said last night? This guy changes his stripes into spots overnight. Wait for him to come back in a day or so to throw som either ally under the bus and sing praises of North Korea. He is a buffoon!

Why blame Trump ? Obama believes the exact same thing. The US position on Pakistan crosses party lines , both Dems and Republicans are well aware of this reality.

 

[Yossarian]

Why blame Trump ? Obama believes the exact same thing. The US position on Pakistan crosses party lines , both Dems and Republicans are well aware of this reality.

And look where it's got them after $trillions expended, over 2,000 American servicemen and women killed, and thousands more maimed and wounded.

The USA is in a bind. It can never claim outright victory in Afghanistan, because what does 'outright victory' actually mean?

Here, read this, it's something I wrote in an earlier post:

Let's face it, the geography of Afghanistan is such that even the most powerful foreign military can win many battles there but will never win the war. Each time the U.S. and Afghan army forces win a chunk of territory with a concerted push, the Taliban just wait it out until the extra troop numbers reduce again, and then just go back and regain the territory from which they were forced out. That's been the pattern for 16 years now and it won't change with the new announcement.

The simple fact that the American politicians and generals don't seem to understand is that these Taliban are not outsiders, they are the sons, fathers and brothers of the people that live there, the people that the Americans wish to 'liberate', and as soon as the 'foreigners' kill one of them, other family members rise up to take their place and 'seek revenge' for the death of their family member(s). Even more so if those killed by the 'foreigners' are seen as being 'collateral damage'.

By siding with the 'foreign army', the Indians may build roads and infrastructure, but as soon as the 'foreign army' are not in control anymore, the Indians will become target no. 1 for being stooges of the 'foreign army

The USA is in a fix. It can't win, and it can't leave. Just as has been the case for the last 16 years. Trump's just beginning to realise that now.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Just can't shut up

Keep ya mouth shut Trumpy boy.

 

[the Great Khan]

Let's leave aside the US for a second, what's the endgame for Pak in this tug of war? You said that many terrorists cross the border & come inside Pak, are these pro Pak or anti Pak elements?

our end game is the fencing of the afghan border and the reactivation of the peace process with all parties engaged. This must be regional but without India. The US want India involved. We dont. We feel india has no business interfering in afghanistan and should worry abouts its neighbourhood to the east.

they are anti Pak elements that are supported by elements within the NDS with support from RAW and NATO.

Let's assume they are pro Pak, by that I mean they do not want to hurt Pak for whatever reason, but anit US & anti NA govt in Afg. Should you allow them to head back, I mean if you can capture or kill them in combat? Now obviously you have every right to do whatever you want to with anti Pak elements crossing the border, but then that's where your objectivity comes into play.

Your assumption is false. They were running death squads into the tribal area with full NATO air support on stand by but were caught and then proceeded to kill the witnesses.

A peaceful Afg, not necessarily pro/anti India or Pak, is what benefits everybody. If you make Afg safe, why do you think they'll pick India over Pak, with China on you side? Also a safer & saner Pak/Afg relationship means that you would get rid of terrorists on at least one side of the border & possibly eliminate Pro ISIS, Al Qaeda & Taliban elements forever.

We are at the point where its really the US's job to secure peace i afghanistan. The majority of the quetta shura is now based in iran and afghanistan. Our border will be fenced and major development work is being carried out to ensure this takes place. I suggest you look at the NLC vids regarding the plan for the redevelopement of the torkham border crossing. Our current focus is to fence the border, kill terrorists within FATA, make FATA part of KP province and stop the spread of ISIS into our territory. It is nato's job to secure afghan areas near the border but they refuse to do so so they run covert ops into pakistan.

Afg relationship should be your priority, even if means appeasing them in the interim. How do you do that ~ capture or kill anti NA elements on your soil, even if they cross the border just to hide from attacks in the north. I doubt NA would be thankless if you make peace for & with them, at least that's what South Asia is known for.

I have mentioned what ur immediate priorities are. Long term we want a political solution that includes the pashtuns andsecures our western border. Ths cannot include India as they do not want a secure western border.

regards

 

[the Great Khan]

Seems to me the real message was one sent to India. No one forced the USA to pay Pakistan to do it's dirty work, they chose that option themselves. But it looks like Trump thinks India should be doing a lot more in Afghanistan because they are benefiting from favourable trade conditions with the US.

this is why this policy is doomed to fail. He wants India to provide more money. They are not going to do so.

 

[Thomaskutty]

And look where it's got them after $trillions expended, over 2,000 American servicemen and women killed, and thousands more maimed and wounded.

The USA is in a bind. It can never claim outright victory in Afghanistan, because what does 'outright victory' actually mean?

Here, read this, it's something I wrote in an earlier post:



The USA is in a fix. It can't win, and it can't leave. Just as has been the case for the last 16 years. Trump's just beginning to realise that now.

My point is .. the Taliban is an outfit created and funded by Pakistan. If it has to die out , this patronage has to cease , otherwise the US will never win this war ... hence these remarks by Trump and most bipartisan lawmakers in the US.

Geography has nothing to do with it , don't be silly. If the Kunduz airlift in 2002 had been prevented , most of this war would have been won by now. Karzai and his successors would have had a far mor peaceful reign in Afghanistan.

 

[carbon11]

Afghan Taliban is not supported by Pakistan

We are fencing the border for a purpose and kicking out afghans

What USA wants is to shift its war like a hot coal to someone else I.e Pakistan and India

Why should Pakistan fight Afghan Taliban

Pakistan has fought the terrorists sent by USA Afghan and India called ttp Isis whatever bla terrorists and wiped most of them out and is now fencing the border to prevent any movement easily which has pained our enemies

We are not going to fight Afghan Taliban and get embroiled in Afghanistan .

We won't allow free Indian movement using our land into Afghanistan or let Afghans trade they have nothing to trade

 

[jusarrived]

None of those countries share a border with china to provide alternative route for china outside of the Malaca Straits....

Why do Indians burn every time china is mentioned?

I hope it works for Pak you will see several posts of me in support of it when it was initially kicked off , but from the past history and what I have read about CPEC , am not really convinced this will end well for Pakistan . What really changed my opinion was when I heard about the tax exemptions given the Chinese companies ?

Pak could do well with a FDI of $100 billion in which XYZ gets its money into the country builds a plant/office , creates jobs etc and pays taxes , but thats not how the Chinese financing works normally . They have little to lose here as long as it can ensure Pak sticks to the repayment plan , they will keep financing bigger and better projects . Their companies will use the Infra built with Pak money , produce , export and may be even sell to Pakistanis . How does Pak gain from this though ? A few million jobs and face lift infra sounds good , but at what cost ?
its nice to get a cheap loan , as long as you can take that money and bare minimum make returns elsewhere more than the interest rates you are paying for the loan ? else this loan will soon start messing up your finances .

 

[Zahid87]

Afghan Taliban is not supported by Pakistan

It is. That is what the whole issue is about.

 

[carbon11]

It is. That is what the whole issue is about.

No it's not there might be a certain influence with some parts of the groups but afghan taliban is wholly an Afghan grassroots phenomena


If Pakistan is to blame then gcc countries Qatar , Russia and Iran also have supplied and have links to Afghan Taliban

It's complete crap pakistan is behind the Afghan insurgencey how the hell are we funding it


We are being made scapegoat for the failures of USA and its crap Afghan army

 

[carbon11]

Also Afghan Taliban don't need Pakistan money they have the drugs trade , smuggling , and money laundered from Pakhtuns and Arabs in gcc countries alongside and tax they collect in their areas

The whole insurgency is a grassroot tribal setup

The weapons expertise and warriors are the tribes of Afghanistan themselves their whole country is awash with weapons

We are being framed for something we are not guilty off

 

[Stewie]

Why blame Trump ? Obama believes the exact same thing. The US position on Pakistan crosses party lines , both Dems and Republicans are well aware of this reality.

They can believe whatever they want. They want us to fight their war on terror and use our resources and land, they have to pay up.

Don't let them fool the world as if they are giving us free money. That's payment for services rendered by Pakistan. The actual afghani taliban never hurt Pakistan. Once the war in terror started, we say the creation of TTP that's hurt Pakistan a lot more.

Every man for himself that's the bottom line. US is not like heaven sent or angels.. everybody knows that.

 

[carbon11]

They are trying to make the Afghan war afpak and draw Pakistan into the war

Pakistan needs to act by cutting all ties with Afghanistan and fencing and mining the border with Afghanistan and have a shoot on sight policy

A buffer zone of 10km needs to be created on western border where no Pakistani can live on western border with Afghanistan these people can be allocated houses land elsewhere so Pakistan can kill anyone who they see roaming around within 10 km of Afghan border , this 10 km stretch should be fortified mined and heavily militarised only troops and garrisons can be in that 10km stretch

As for NATO supplies they should be checked throughly and taxed accordingly , any noise from USA or threats of sanctions cut the supplies including the airspace to Afghanistan

 

[yasir]

Lesson for Pakistan and USA alike, how many policies have failed in Afghanistan, I hardly remember anything ever worked in last 3/4 decade:

Pakistan Army using Afghans as religious bombs, failed miserably:

Its never easy to control or use afghanis to your benefit...We(US and Pakistan) tried to using them in Russian war, Pakistan tried to continue to use their warrior skills a decade later as well, but end up creating more mess...Pakistan has become more like Afghanistan than other way around. Pakistan has become more religious extreme, it attracts now extremist all over the world to, what Afghanistan was in 80s, Pakistan has become in 2000s and 2010s...This building nation on high dose of religion has failed for both of us(Pakistan and Afghanistan), you are make you society poor, more suitable to abuse by everybody...

Good Taliban, Bad Taliban policy of Pak Army, backfire big time:

In last 8/10 years, Pakistan has switched to Good/Bad Taliban policy, that is somewhat a repeat of 1980s policies. This is hardly any different, so are the results. Culturally Army and nation is still following a vision that is breeding ground for extremist of all kinds. Same amount of money and energy of nation is spend on wrong ideology. Culturally we are still in very wrong direction, nothing has changed on cultural front in last few decades.

US Army nation building, again failed:

US Army has hard time penetrating socially, culturally, politically, they had no success what so ever in last 17 years. They are not nation builders(in same time period, they failed in middle east too), staying there indefinitely means more failure. They have not achieved much in 17 years with more boots on ground. What possibly they will achieve in next decade or so? - They have stated nation building is not their priority, what else they will do, to "change conditions on the ground"??

India is probably happy with Status Co

India is not going to get their hands dirty in Afghanistan. They are happy with whats going on, this status co has helped de-stablize one of their main enemy, more the mess is better for them...Pakistan and China is in between, how much trade they can do anyway, where as arming the Good/Bad(depending upon your point of view) Taliban is an easier and more profitable investment, which probably they have been doing in last decade or so...

Same is the case with Saudi Arab(and Iran), they were using earlier Afghanistan and now Pakistan as bedding ground for their religious wars. For them money is only investment they need to make, which they are getting for free from Oil, their is not much blood or sweat they have to suffer.

Pakistan and Afghanistan has lost the most in those 3/4 decades, and they will continue to loose more. Pakistan has been more stupid than anybody else in that time frame, we have let our country ruined and learned nothing, we have double down on those policies...Two main enabler of those policies (Army and Religion) are still two most beloved pillars in society, despite what has happen in last 40 years, you can tell we are not very bright nation

 

[www787]

Trump is sending 4000+ troops to failed war in Afghanistan, a war in which the US government itself doesn't know what would be considered as a victory for them.

It is almost like he has no plan but to help Military industrial complex and arm dealers to get rich.

And, Indian still living in imperial mindset getting excited that a white president of America has praised them. Nothing will change. No way in hell Pakistan will let India has upper hand in Afghanistan, it is a lost cause for India.

 

[www787]

Lesson for Pakistan and USA alike, how many policies have failed in Afghanistan, I hardly remember anything ever worked in last 3/4 decade:

Pakistan Army using Afghans as religious bombs, failed miserably:

Its never easy to control or use afghanis to your benefit...We(US and Pakistan) tried to using them in Russian war, Pakistan tried to continue to use their warrior skills a decade later as well, but end up creating more mess...Pakistan has become more like Afghanistan than other way around. Pakistan has become more religious extreme, it attracts now extremist all over the world to, what Afghanistan was in 80s, Pakistan has become in 2000s and 2010s...This building nation on high dose of religion has failed for both of us(Pakistan and Afghanistan), you are make you society poor, more suitable to abuse by everybody...

Good Taliban, Bad Taliban policy of Pak Army, backfire big time:

In last 8/10 years, Pakistan has switched to Good/Bad Taliban policy, that is somewhat a repeat of 1980s policies. This is hardly any different, so are the results. Culturally Army and nation is still following a vision that is breeding ground for extremist of all kinds. Same amount of money and energy of nation is spend on wrong ideology. Culturally we are still in very wrong direction, nothing has changed on cultural front in last few decades.

US Army nation building, again failed:

US Army has hard time penetrating socially, culturally, politically, they had no success what so ever in last 17 years. They are not nation builders(in same time period, they failed in middle east too), staying there indefinitely means more failure. They have not achieved much in 17 years with more boots on ground. What possibly they will achieve in next decade or so? - They have stated nation building is not their priority, what else they will do, to "change conditions on the ground"??

India is probably happy with Status Co

India is not going to get their hands dirty in Afghanistan. They are happy with whats going on, this status co has helped de-stablize one of their main enemy, more the mess is better for them...Pakistan and China is in between, how much trade they can do anyway, where as arming the Good/Bad(depending upon your point of view) Taliban is an easier and more profitable investment, which probably they have been doing in last decade or so...

Same is the case with Saudi Arab(and Iran), they were using earlier Afghanistan and now Pakistan as bedding ground for their religious wars. For them money is only investment they need to make, which they are getting for free from Oil, their is not much blood or sweat they have to suffer.

Pakistan and Afghanistan has lost the most in those 3/4 decades, and they will continue to loose more. Pakistan has been more stupid than anybody else in that time frame, we have let our country ruined and learned nothing, we have double down on those policies...Two main enabler of those policies (Army and Religion) are still two most beloved pillars in society, despite what has happen in last 40 years, you can tell we are not very bright nation

It benefit India to have stable Pakistan as india's economy progresses, and good relationship with Pakistan but, for that to happen India needs to solve Kashmir issue.

I don't see that happening anytime soon as India's mindset and government has been hijacked by radical Hindu extremists.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Trump seemed to reference this in his speech Monday, saying that "Pakistan has much to gain from partnering with our effort in Afghanistan (and) much to lose from harboring criminals and terrorists."

But analysts warn following up tough talk with effective action may be a more difficult task.

"Pakistan has ironclad immutable strategic interests which dictate maintaining ties to groups like the Taliban," said Michael Kugelman, deputy director and senior associate for South Asia with the Asia Program at the Woodrow Wilson Center.

"It sees them as useful tools to keep Pakistan's enemy, India, at bay in Afghanistan."

I don't understand what India is doing in Afghanistan in the first place. If they have some sort of business there, surely it would make sense to involve Pakistan to remove any obstacles or clash of interest in any case.

 

[carbon11]

It has nothing to do with ideology or terrorists

If that was the case Saudi should be getting bombed by USA

This whole Afghan war is to destroy Pakistan and get our nukes

The yanks are irked by Cpec

If they withdraw Afghanistan will become an extension of Cpec and Chinese influence and trade with Central Asia will benefit whole region , then real nation building in Afghanistan can happen due to cpec

But USA does not want that

 

[R0H1T]

It has nothing to do with ideology or terrorists

If that was the case Saudi should be getting bombed by USA

This whole Afghan war is to destroy Pakistan and get our nukes

The yanks are irked by Cpec

If they withdraw Afghanistan will become an extension of Cpec and Chinese influence and trade with Central Asia will benefit whole region , then real nation building in Afghanistan can happen due to cpec

But USA does not want that

Your paranoia will only destroy you, none will be harmed more.

Without viable markets CPEC is gonna fail anyway, what CPEC does however is bring these economies & markets under heavy Chinese influence, I'm sure you'd all love your Chinese overlords in the next half of this century.

Sri Lanka approves Chinese port project to avoid 'misunderstanding' with Beijing

 

[carbon11]

Viable marketsAfghanistan is rich in minerals , Central Asia has oil and gas alongside middle east which china needs

As for viable markets they are the billions of people in Asia who can trade with themselves

The Middle East Africa china Indian south east asia billions of people

 

[R0H1T]

Viable marketsAfghanistan is rich in minerals , Central Asia has oil and gas alongside middle east which china needs

As for viable markets they are the billions of people in Asia who can trade with themselves

The Middle East Africa china Indian south east asia billions of people

Yes that's why they're in Africa as well, hasn't helped them much.

There's only two countries with over a billion, the amount of Chinese overproduction, in many sectors means that there's only one really big market, the next 10 combined don't add up to it.

SE Asia is actually pretty rich in minerals (not all of them but many) & has a good amount of domestic production, though electronics & heavy machinery is concentrated in China.

These are the only markets that matter, Chinese overproduction is still killing the global economy.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-import-duties-chinese-steel-port-talbot-tata

 

[carbon11]

Complete rubbish European companies are doing big business in china as is India , due to the uplift of millions of Chinese they can afford to buy luxury goods from Europe , BMW and Mercedes haven't gone out of business due to overproduction of Chinese junk

Cpec helps Pakistan in transportation infrastructure and energy which gives base
For 200 million people of Pakistan to set up thier own industries

 

[R0H1T]

Complete rubbish European companies are doing big business in china as is India , due to the uplift of millions of Chinese they can afford to buy luxury goods from Europe , BMW and Mercedes haven't gone out of business due to overproduction of Chinese junk

Cpec helps Pakistan in transportation infrastructure and energy which gives base
For 200 million people of Pakistan to set up thier own industries

Yeah everything is rubbish in your world.

What happens when the Chinese build those roads, power plants, industries for you ~ which they'll probably own themselves? Can you name a dozen Pak investments in CPEC, the ones that'll be owned by Pak after the project's complete? Talking about industry, but some power plants would be fine.

 

[R0H1T]

Dawn if you'd like a domestic source ~ https://www.dawn.com/news/1320028

Also ~ https://www.dawn.com/news/1346390/advancing-cpec-by-stealth

 

[carbon11]

According to the IMF: “The CPEC could go a long way towards alleviating Pakistan’s long-standing supply-side bottlenecks and lifting its long-term potential output… power supply will improve for exports. Transport infrastructure (roads, rail and port) will allow easier and low-cost access to domestic and overseas markets, promoting inter-regional and international merchandise trade. Services trade will also benefit from the increased trade traffic from China ... (and the initiative) would catalyse private business investment and boost productivity.”


Regards

 

[R0H1T]

According to the IMF: “The CPEC could go a long way towards alleviating Pakistan’s long-standing supply-side bottlenecks and lifting its long-term potential output… power supply will improve for exports. Transport infrastructure (roads, rail and port) will allow easier and low-cost access to domestic and overseas markets, promoting inter-regional and international merchandise trade. Services trade will also benefit from the increased trade traffic from China ... (and the initiative) would catalyse private business investment and boost productivity.”


Regards

Please, we're talking about specifics ~

Yet, this is where the reality of CPEC is. The corridor is only minimally about transit trade. The power plants, too, are little more than the “early harvest projects”, on commercial terms, designed to jump-start the economy before the real game begins. The real game of CPEC is about granting access to Chinese enterprises to Pakistan’s domestic markets, raw materials and the agrarian economy.

But that side of the entire equation is being kept deliberately quiet while we are encouraged to think of the projects in terms of roads and power plants alone.

There is a growing and urgent need for our CPEC conversation to move beyond transit trade and balance of payments. The real game has not even begun, and few understand the form it will take.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1346390/advancing-cpec-by-stealth

Just think logically, if everything is built by the Chinese, financed by them, then probably owned by them, what are you getting in return? Forget about modern day imperialism, surely you must understand that in order to develop Pak fully you need Pak to hold the majority share in infrastructure & especially industries.

Some glorifying IMF statement helps you not one bit.

 

[carbon11]

Most industries in the uk are owned by foreign companies rail transport and most of the service industries

And now Hinckley point c nuclear power plant a large Chinese stake

Pakistan industries and entrepreneurs will come when the energy crisis is solved and transportation system is in place road rail air and that will happen once those projects are completed it takes time

There is a vibrant market of 200 million people that cannot be ignored with lots of natural resources

 

[KingKhanWC]

The guy is right. Pakistan was housing bin laden and co and yet we werr getting aid.


Trump should negotiate the release of afridi

Why doesn't Trump send troops into Pakistan? You could write to him and ask him send soldiers to your local town or village and maybe you could meet them, shake their hands and take a selfie too?

 

[Syed1]

Your paranoia will only destroy you, none will be harmed more.

Without viable markets CPEC is gonna fail anyway, what CPEC does however is bring these economies & markets under heavy Chinese influence, I'm sure you'd all love your Chinese overlords in the next half of this century.

Sri Lanka approves Chinese port project to avoid 'misunderstanding' with Beijing

Yeah we Pakistanis are so lucky that even our biggest enemy, India, is looking after our best interests.






You know you are doing something right if people who want to destroy you are advising against it. Keep burning buddy.

 

[R0H1T]

Most industries in the uk are owned by foreign companies rail transport and most of the service industries

And now Hinckley point c nuclear power plant a large Chinese stake

Pakistan industries and entrepreneurs will come when the energy crisis is solved and transportation system is in place road rail air and that will happen once those projects are completed it takes time

There is a vibrant market of 200 million people that cannot be ignored with lots of natural resources

How's UK doing?

There are a bunch of words I could throw at you but I won't stoop to your level.

Chinese imports will still be cheaper, what do you think CPEC is for, just sight seeing?

Oh they want your market & the resources, since you don't have the industries to serve them atm they'll do even that job for you.

Yeah we Pakistanis are so lucky that even our biggest enemy, India, is looking after our best interests.






You know you are doing something right if people who want to destroy you are advising against it. Keep burning buddy.

Keep those cliched replies coming, I'm sure you'll never know what hit you.

 

[Syed1]

Keep those cliched replies coming, I'm sure you'll never know what hit you.

Yeah thanks for having our back mate.

 

[carbon11]

Good Indian if the Chinese become our rulers and develop our country like china and Pakistani people can then afford to buy Burberry and land rovers and get educated to high standards then Alls good

We are happy to rather pay the taxes to the Chinese imperialist than usa Indian puppets like nawaz and zardari where the lights don't even come on

 

[waqar goraya]

Trump's statement is factually incorrect, they are paying money for transit through Pakistan. Furthermore, the super power itself has not been able to control even half of Afghanistan in 16 years and yet it expects Pakistan to be more effective. Still, almost every major attack in Pak is planned on Afghan territory. It is Pakistan who should ask USA to do more and stop safe haven of terrorists who aim Pakistan.

Bringing arch rivals India into it and threatening Pakistan simultaneously.

Trump makes Bush junior look like Thomas Jefferson.

 

[Enigma_]

This confirms the one thing that most of us already knew. That is, the US never has been, isn't and never will be an ally of Pakistan. This change in Policy from the US in South Asia has been building ever since Obama came into power. The national propaganda on their shows started during his reign and now it is time for the US to take it to a public level. Most americans are too stupid to even know what's going on and they'll tow their government line. Indian lobbyists and Zionists have been pretty successful in bringing their true long term goal in the region into effect, which has always been, to destroy Pakistan. Our current 'leaders' have no back bone and need to be ousted ASAP and IK needs to come in, simple as that really. It is time to move away from the Devil's parasite that is the US. This should be enough to oust them, crazy people.

 

[90MPH]

There maybe Elements of the ISI supporting remenants of the Taliban just as the Afghan intelligence maybe doing the same back in Pakistan.

End of the day Afghanistan has seen nothing but conflict for the last 38 years. Everyone needs to work together to bring peace and the USA will understand one thing that Pakistan shares a border with Afghanistan, not India so weather like it or not they have to cooperate with Pakistan.

 

[Yossarian]

My point is .. the Taliban is an outfit created and funded by Pakistan. If it has to die out , this patronage has to cease , otherwise the US will never win this war ... hence these remarks by Trump and most bipartisan lawmakers in the US.

Geography has nothing to do with it , don't be silly. If the Kunduz airlift in 2002 had been prevented , most of this war would have been won by now. Karzai and his successors would have had a far mor peaceful reign in Afghanistan.

You obviouly didn't comprehend whatsover the points I mentioned in my post. They went completely over your head. If it was so simple as you appear to think, the USA wouldn't still be in the quagmire after 16 years, having spent $trillions, over 2,000 military personnel killed, tens of thousands more maimed and wounded, and all at times when they had over 100,000 of their own troops in the country, not counting the thousands from other allied countries.

The British Empire couldn't win in Afghanistan, neither could the Russians/Soviets, and neither the USA and it's allies over 16 years. And you think Trump's going to be able to do it? And oh, winning means not only taking control of the whole of the country, but more importantly, keeping hold of it for any length of time.

I'm afraid it's wishful thinking on the part of Indians if they think they can build roads, bridges, dams and other infrastructure in Afghanistan and expect the Afghans to show gratitude once (that is if ever) the Americans leave.

In fact, if you read between the lines, Trump is expecting the Indians to use some of the profits they make from trade with the USA in doing the Americans donkey work for them in Afghanistan..

 

[Muhammad10]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Former Afghan Pres. Karzai: "I very strongly oppose the new U.S. strategy towards Afghanistan." <a href="https://t.co/vLP7wP3wUN">pic.twitter.com/vLP7wP3wUN</a></p>— NBC Nightly News (@NBCNightlyNews) <a href="https://twitter.com/NBCNightlyNews/status/900003369649090560">August 22, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[cricketjoshila]

Trump administration may now be actually looking at striking the funders and supporters of Taliban.Elements that have helped and abetted Taliban.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You obviouly didn't comprehend whatsover the points I mentioned in my post. They went completely over your head. If it was so simple as you appear to think, the USA wouldn't still be in the quagmire after 16 years, having spent $trillions, over 2,000 military personnel killed, tens of thousands more maimed and wounded, and all at times when they had over 100,000 of their own troops in the country, not counting the thousands from other allied countries.

The British Empire couldn't win in Afghanistan, neither could the Russians/Soviets, and neither the USA and it's allies over 16 years. And you think Trump's going to be able to do it? And oh, winning means not only taking control of the whole of the country, but more importantly, keeping hold of it for any length of time.

I'm afraid it's wishful thinking on the part of Indians if they think they can build roads, bridges, dams and other infrastructure in Afghanistan and expect the Afghans to show gratitude once (that is if ever) the Americans leave.

In fact, if you read between the lines, Trump is expecting the Indians to use some of the profits they make from trade with the USA in doing the Americans donkey work for them in Afghanistan..

That is what I read in the whole message, but it's being ignored by the Indian PP'ers for some reason. Why even bring them into this and mention how India is benefiting from favourable trade conditions with the US otherwise?

That was the real message which is different from the other cliches which we have been hearing for the last decade or so.

 

[Snak3eye5]

Which is why I'm not sure why bring India into the speech. India isn't going to do jack about Afghanistan as terrorists from Afghan aren't jumping into its fence but instead posing problems for Pakistan. If anything Trump rather than make Pakistan look bad should have said that US and Pakistan needs to work together...

 

[R0H1T]

That is what I read in the whole message, but it's being ignored by the Indian PP'ers for some reason. Why even bring them into this and mention how India is benefiting from favourable trade conditions with the US otherwise?

That was the real message which is different from the other cliches which we have been hearing for the last decade or so.

It could also be read as India helping reshape the economy of Afghanistan which we can obviously. As others have said, poppy makes up a huge chunk of Afghan economy, Taliban are the biggest benefactors, some of that poppy also ends up in Northern India like Punjab.

If we can systematically dismantle the poppy trade & move Afghans away from heroin, cocaine et al Taliban may well find it hard to fund their endless wars. It wasn;t Afghan war that killed the USSR, many like to boast it was on this forum, it was the economy which collapsed under it's own weight, A strong economy would;ve meant that USSR would still be intact today, the only way you can be rid of Taliban (short of nuking them) is to make their war untenable, part of it is seizing their territory, the other major part is economy.

A strong economy will give Afghans many levers to drive out Taliban, to drown out their philosophy. The people will chose what looks better, pays better & probably smells better. Most rational people do that, unless inspired by ISIS.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It could also be read as India helping reshape the economy of Afghanistan which we can obviously. As others have said, poppy makes up a huge chunk of Afghan economy, Taliban are the biggest benefactors, some of that poppy also ends up in Northern India like Punjab.

If we can systematically dismantle the poppy trade & move Afghans away from heroin, cocaine et al Taliban may well find it hard to fund their endless wars. It wasn;t Afghan war that killed the USSR, many like to boast it was on this forum, it was the economy which collapsed under it's own weight, A strong economy would;ve meant that USSR would still be intact today, the only way you can be rid of Taliban (short of nuking them) is to make their war untenable, part of it is seizing their territory, the other major part is economy.

A strong economy will give Afghans many levers to drive out Taliban, to drown out their philosophy. The people will chose what looks better, pays better & probably smells better. Most rational people do that, unless inspired by ISIS.

Wow, India can do all that for Afghanistan while most of it's own population lives in abject poverty? No wonder Trump is making financial demands from India, they have got too much money to go round everywhere except home.