Turkey & Pakistan reach their largest ever defence contract, Pakistan to purchase 30 helicopters

[Lonewarrior]

ANKARA, Turkey — Turkey and Pakistan have agreed on the sale of a batch of 30 Turkish-made T129 ATAK multirole combat helicopters, Turkish officials have said.

Turkish Aerospace Industries, or TAI, maker of the T129 under license from the Italian-British AgustaWestland, has so far delivered 35 T129s to the Turkish Army and the Gendarmerie force.

Before the deal, the T129 went through various tests in Pakistan. Most recently, the T129 was showcased at a March 23 military parade for Pakistani National Day.

“We expect further [T-129] contracts to follow the order from Pakistan,” a Turkish defense procurement official said. “We are in talks with a number of countries.”

Pakistan is known to have evaluated the Turkish-built version of the AgustaWestland A129 Mangusta as part of an ongoing effort to procure a new attack helicopter for the country’s army. With the Pakistan Army having already ordered 12 US-built Bell AH-1Z Vipers, it had since 2014 been trialling the Chinese-built Z-10 and since 2016 the T129.

Speaking earlier in the year to Jane’s and other defence media, Pakistan Army Aviation commander Major General Nasir Shah said only that a number of platform options were being considered to augment its current Bell AH-1 Cobras, the four recently received Mil Mi-35s, and its soon to be delivered AH-1Z Viper platforms.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/mideast-africa/2018/05/29/turkey-pakistan-reach-their-largest-ever-defense-contract/

http://www.janes.com/article/80336/pakistan-signs-for-t129-attack-helos

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1722530/1-pakistan-purchase-30-attack-helicopters-turkey/

 

[finalfantasy7]

pointless, how much did it cost in total in £ ?

 

[shah_1]

pointless, how much did it cost in total in £ ?

I think $1.5 billion deal

 

[DeadBall]

pointless, how much did it cost in total in £ ?

True, waste of money. Just boys buying new toys.

 

[Lonewarrior]

pointless, how much did it cost in total in £ ?

True, waste of money. Just boys buying new toys.

$1.5 billions, do the math euro.

not pointless and not waste of money. 30 cobra helicopters are going to retire in next 5 years , its for thre replacement.

 

[DeadBall]

$1.5 billions, do the math euro.

not pointless and not waste of money. 30 cobra helicopters are going to retire in next 5 years , its for thre replacement.

Think you didn't get my point.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Think you didn't get my point.

and your point was ?

 

[DeadBall]

and your point was ?

.

True, waste of money. Just boys buying new toys.

.

 

[Lonewarrior]

.


True, waste of money. Just boys buying new toys.
.

not pointless and not waste of money. 30 cobra helicopters are going to retire in next 5 years , its for thre replacement.

.

 

[enkidu_]

We need more intra-Islamic exchange, esp. in defence.

 

[Slim]

1) Its not pointless as Cobras which are used in counter terror ops/COIN ops have gotten really old. These are solid replacements.

These mixed with the upcoming American Zulus + Russians helis would be a good hi low combo.

2) Turkey and Malaysia are probably one of the few who actually believe in the Muslim Ummah concept and have my full respect.

 

[archetype]

If Pakistan can create the mighty JF-17 fighter then why not some attack helicoptors?

 

[Slim]

If Pakistan can create the mighty JF-17 fighter then why not some attack helicoptors?

What has a fighter jet to do with attack helis?

 

[archetype]

What has a fighter jet to do with attack helis?

They both can make things go boom. In any case, I just thought Pakistan could definitely create its own cost-effective helicopter to export to other countries like the JF 17.

 

[PakLFC]

Why useless? They will be needed in any future war. It is important to send the enemy a clear message that if need be we are ready to fight.

 

[finalfantasy7]

$1.5 billions, do the math euro.

not pointless and not waste of money. 30 cobra helicopters are going to retire in next 5 years , its for thre replacement.

Why useless? They will be needed in any future war. It is important to send the enemy a clear message that if need be we are ready to fight.

Think that money would have been better of spent.

How many schools hospitals/ dams/ roads could have been built

 

[Pakpak]

Think that money would have been better of spent.

How many schools hospitals/ dams/ roads could have been built

Er they can already be built in the yearly budgets of hundreds of billions of Rupees announced by our PM after the army takes away it's share. But guess who is eating that money?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Why useless? They will be needed in any future war. It is important to send the enemy a clear message that if need be we are ready to fight.

Which future war is there likely to be where they will be realistically deployed?

 

[Madplayer]

We need more intra-Islamic exchange, esp. in defence.

For that there needs to be some intra-Islamic technology in the first place. Turkey is the farthest that we have gone in terms of technology. Rest everyone is dependent on west.

 

[archetype]

Which future war is there likely to be where they will be realistically deployed?

Ghazwa e Hind

 

[HussainRx8]

Think that money would have been better of spent.

How many schools hospitals/ dams/ roads could have been built

That's a very superficial argument. Defense and other discretionary spending should not be considered a forced tradeoff, especially when you have a right-wing fascist government as a neighbor. We're a national security state, and as such should shore up our defense. You can still invest in development by cutting spending elsewhere or raising more revenue. Pakistan has among the lowest tax-to-GDP ratios in the world.

 

[enkidu_]

For that there needs to be some intra-Islamic technology in the first place. Turkey is the farthest that we have gone in terms of technology. Rest everyone is dependent on west.

If you look at the demographic trends, the transfert of technology is bound to happen in the rest of the 'ummah, esp. if there's a political will (look at Iraq under Saddam, post-'79 Iran). Turkey has a privilegied position because the modernization process began under the late Ottomans (Tanzimat), but I reckon Pakistan will be there around 2050, with many other nations. The West then will be old and impotent (literally as well as symbolically), with the GDP of countries like Italy/Germany being nearly divided into two for the lack of work-force. That'll be the right time.

 

[finalfantasy7]

i dont think you two live in rural areas in pakistan. helicopters can be bought in 5 years time when the technology is better.

look pakistan needs to invest in the right areas, and the military spends way too much

 

[Lonewarrior]

i dont think you two live in rural areas in pakistan. helicopters can be bought in 5 years time when the technology is better.

look pakistan needs to invest in the right areas, and the military spends way too much

do you understand the process of the military procurement of defense forces ? it took 4 long years to trial this heli under all-weather/day-night conditions.
and still it will take 4 to 5 years to get the first full batch of 30 helis.

if someone knows nothing about military expanding thn they just say the magic words.. "pak army spends too much".
just look at your surrounding, dont just say it for the sake of it without knowing your ground realities related to defense needs.

the govt should invest in the right areas, ask zardari and nawaz. what were they doing from last 10 years ?
just dont ask army to cut his budget, becoz civilians govts are corrupt and incompetent.

 

[MABA]

No country on earth just spends money on "health and education". Defence needs have to be fulfilled to, not too long ago we were dealing with a full scale insurgency for which helicopters are more useful than fighter jets. The fact is that we currently have old cobras which need replacing and these will do a very fine job.

 

[PakLFC]

Think that money would have been better of spent.

How many schools hospitals/ dams/ roads could have been built

No point in having schools and all if you are being attacked or under invasion.

 

[PakLFC]

Which future war is there likely to be where they will be realistically deployed?

India of course is our major enemy where they will be deployed at the border. The Afghanistan border is always hot as well.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

India of course is our major enemy where they will be deployed at the border. The Afghanistan border is always hot as well.

When was the last time Pakistan deployed air power against Indian forces? Afghanistan is a more plausible enemy but Pakistan already outguns their military technology by some distance.

 

[IAJ]

True, waste of money. Just boys buying new toys.

Here comes the typical rant lol. Pakistan have to Invest in these ‘toys’ for their populations safety and security.

The real issue is corruption, if they can combat that there will be enough budget for Health, dealing with poverty and education.

 

[Pakpak]

i dont think you two live in rural areas in pakistan. helicopters can be bought in 5 years time when the technology is better.

look pakistan needs to invest in the right areas, and the military spends way too much

I am unsure if you're deliberately being obtuse or are unable to read English. Investing in rural areas is the civilian governments job. They are handed hundreds of billions for that very purpose.

 

[finalfantasy7]

I am unsure if you're deliberately being obtuse or are unable to read English. Investing in rural areas is the civilian governments job. They are handed hundreds of billions for that very purpose.

i can read english , i aint thick unlike some muppets on here, buying helicopters over the need for water,,, hmmmmmmmmm.

i dont think you should be calling anyone any names, i understand the deal with china recently - however this is not needed at all yet

 

[finalfantasy7]

No country on earth just spends money on "health and education". Defence needs have to be fulfilled to, not too long ago we were dealing with a full scale insurgency for which helicopters are more useful than fighter jets. The fact is that we currently have old cobras which need replacing and these will do a very fine job.

No point in having schools and all if you are being attacked or under invasion.

i bet you think im indian? im not im british pakistani if you want me to tick a box.

i dont care how long it takes to purchase military toys, its not needed at all, too much poverty .. too many problems,

paklfc - no point have schools in pakistan will be invaded, well no schools no education, how do we defend ourselves if people are thick???, you dont want a stupid army/military on our hands. what can you achieve with stupid people.

you cannot build a feature nation without basic needs which is education, just look at Malaysia and the Scandinavian countries.

Education is needed, no point constantly buying goods from dictatorship foreign countries - need to start making your own and have your own industry. seems saudi and turkey take pakistan to the cleaners

 

[Pakpak]

i can read english , i aint thick unlike some muppets on here, buying helicopters over the need for water,,, hmmmmmmmmm.

i dont think you should be calling anyone any names, i understand the deal with china recently - however this is not needed at all yet

You are sounding thick. We can already get water, there is a budget for that which the civilian government controls but eats all of it so then we have to read nonsensical posts like yours. The army gets its own budget and they buy all these toys from that amount. How hard is it for you to understand that concept?

 

[finalfantasy7]

You are sounding thick. We can already get water, there is a budget for that which the civilian government controls but eats all of it so then we have to read nonsensical posts like yours. The army gets its own budget and they buy all these toys from that amount. How hard is it for you to understand that concept?

hahhahahaha, typical comment, yes if you believe the figures regarding the civilian government - then i dont need to reply to you anymore.

army budget is a lot bigger that they claim, i know personally, ive had few family including my mums older brother was very high up in the air force in Karachi - spent his whole live thr and had a forced retirement at age 55-57yrs old then they called him back for some projects.

 

[Pakpak]

hahhahahaha, typical comment, yes if you believe the figures regarding the civilian government - then i dont need to reply to you anymore.

army budget is a lot bigger that they claim, i know personally, ive had few family including my mums older brother was very high up in the air force in Karachi - spent his whole live thr and had a forced retirement at age 55-57yrs old then they called him back for some projects.

Army gets around 5-6 billion a year. The government also gets billions of Rupees, hundreds of billions which they steal and eat instead of investing it in the country. Which part of this is false? They announce it in the parliament and distribute it to provinces after the army has its share.

What are you on about, houses and retirement. Even if the army gave this money to the civilians they'd eat it

 

[PakLFC]

When was the last time Pakistan deployed air power against Indian forces? Afghanistan is a more plausible enemy but Pakistan already outguns their military technology by some distance.

That is not to see that India is not our enemy. After 26/11 they did come to the border in thousands. After seeing we were ready to fight as well they returned with their tail between their legs.

 

[PakLFC]

i bet you think im indian? im not im british pakistani if you want me to tick a box.

i dont care how long it takes to purchase military toys, its not needed at all, too much poverty .. too many problems,

paklfc - no point have schools in pakistan will be invaded, well no schools no education, how do we defend ourselves if people are thick???, you dont want a stupid army/military on our hands. what can you achieve with stupid people.

you cannot build a feature nation without basic needs which is education, just look at Malaysia and the Scandinavian countries.

Education is needed, no point constantly buying goods from dictatorship foreign countries - need to start making your own and have your own industry. seems saudi and turkey take pakistan to the cleaners

You missed me. I can't make any sense of your comments? Are you sure you're a Brit Pak? The first rule is always being able to defend your country if attacked by outsiders. If not we'd be another Iraq, Syria or Afghanistan. Things like education and everything else come after that.

 

[shaz619]

Pak are well within their right to spend on defence from their alloted budget just like my country the UK, there will always be debate on investing a bit more in other areas and that is fair but to avoid defence entirely is just silly. TAI is a very reputable aerospace company in the world, the product is of a high calibre. And these helicopters are a good investment especially with Pakistans terrain.

 

[finalfantasy7]

You missed me. I can't make any sense of your comments? Are you sure you're a Brit Pak? The first rule is always being able to defend your country if attacked by outsiders. If not we'd be another Iraq, Syria or Afghanistan. Things like education and everything else come after that.

when was the last time you have been to pakistan??? because you seem very deluded . pakistan is not going forward in any way. your so called future wars are funny, the countries you have stated above have all fallen to america with ease - pakistan cannot defend itself from the americans.


pakistan needs to build its infrastructure badly, load shedding should have been dealt with in the early to mid 1990's - yet so many people are left without electricity for 6 hours a day - yet it will increase as the by the day as summer is here

 

[finalfantasy7]

What is Pakistan debt, is it decreasing or increasing.

The Pakistan debt thread is interesting, so a question to you, would you want Pakistan to go the IMF/ CHINA/ SAUDI ARABIA or the US.

 

[PakLFC]

when was the last time you have been to pakistan??? because you seem very deluded . pakistan is not going forward in any way. your so called future wars are funny, the countries you have stated above have all fallen to america with ease - pakistan cannot defend itself from the americans.


pakistan needs to build its infrastructure badly, load shedding should have been dealt with in the early to mid 1990's - yet so many people are left without electricity for 6 hours a day - yet it will increase as the by the day as summer is here

I think you are so naive if not ignorant of the facts unable to understand a very basic point. According to your childish and immature logic Pak should build great schools and colleges never mind all security so that India and America are free to walk in to Pakistan. How old are you? I did not say anywhere that Pak infrastructure was anything to boast about but there is no point having great institutions when you are occupied by foreign forces. Well if Pak is such easy pickings then why have the American's not invaded? Hamid Gul said "bahana 9/11, tikhana Afghanistan aur nishana Pakistan." He has far more knowledge about the security situation in his little finger then people like you ever will. So according to you lets have the best of everything other then a military, a defenceless Pakistan is exactly what the enemy wants. Like of Afghanistan and Iraq fell to America coz they could not defend themselves which is why I want Pak to have a powerful military. You are making no sense whatsoever.

 

[finalfantasy7]

Your making sense to the 2nd voice in your head.

I don't mind the military purchasing its toys. However Pakistan needs to clean up its problem with the home grown jihadists - and dont be a fool as says thr no such thing.

America will not invade Pakistan and so won't India, they will try and hurt its economy like what's been happening.
Buying toys ain't gonna do anything

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pak are well within their right to spend on defence from their alloted budget just like my country the UK, there will always be debate on investing a bit more in other areas and that is fair but to avoid defence entirely is just silly. TAI is a very reputable aerospace company in the world, the product is of a high calibre. And these helicopters are a good investment especially with Pakistans terrain.

No one is suggesting Pak avoid defence entirely, the argument has always been that Pak spends a far bigger proportion of it's budget on defence than most other countries and this is what has held Pakistan back in many other areas which need investment. Personally I agree with finalfantasy7 that India is no threat at all, this is a myth which is useful for the military to justify spending, but realistically they don't want to take on a Muslim population, they have their hands full just dealing with Kashmir. In any case, Pakistan has a nuclear deterrent which is probably far more effective than any amount of helicopters. The only justification I can see for them is operations on the Afghan border.

 

[hafeezrocks]

I think some of the terrorist activities in both countries are sponsored by the Weapon Mafia to keep their business going.

 

[Syed1]

Useless waste of money... spend this same money on schools and universities and within a couple of decades you would be building better jets and helis in your own home.

 

[MenInG]

Pakistan’s Army on Friday rejected some digital media reports that Pakistan has cancelled a T-129 ATAK helicopter deal with Turkey.

In a statement, the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), the military’s media wing, clarified that speculations over the cancelation of Pakistan’s deal for acquiring T-129 ATAK helicopters from Turkey are baseless.

Addressing a news conference on Jan 5, the DG ISPR Maj Gen Babar Iftikhar, explaining Pakistan’s defence procurement needs, said Pakistan’s armed forces are continuously enhancing their capacity and upgrading technology while remaining cognisant of the threat and operational requirements.

“While answering a question related to Pakistan’s deal with Turkey for acquiring T-129 ATAK helicopters, the statement made by the DG ISPR was misconstrued on some digital media platforms.

“It is clarified that Pakistan has never ruled out an acquisition of military helicopters from Turkey. All speculations in this regard are baseless,” said ISPR.

Talking about the situation along the country’s eastern border, Maj Gen Babar said: “Our adversary is continuously procuring the latest equipment. Any conventional imbalance in the region is very dangerous and can lead to an arms race.”

On border fencing with Afghanistan, the ISPR chief said the situation on the western border remained challenging in 2021, mainly due to evolving situation in Afghanistan.

He explained that under a comprehensive border management regime, 94% of fence work on the Pak-Afghan border and 71% of fence work on the Pak-Iran border has been completed.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/233758...f-cancellation-of-helicopter-deal-with-turkey

 

[finalfantasy7]

Pakistan’s Army on Friday rejected some digital media reports that Pakistan has cancelled a T-129 ATAK helicopter deal with Turkey.

In a statement, the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), the military’s media wing, clarified that speculations over the cancelation of Pakistan’s deal for acquiring T-129 ATAK helicopters from Turkey are baseless.

Addressing a news conference on Jan 5, the DG ISPR Maj Gen Babar Iftikhar, explaining Pakistan’s defence procurement needs, said Pakistan’s armed forces are continuously enhancing their capacity and upgrading technology while remaining cognisant of the threat and operational requirements.

“While answering a question related to Pakistan’s deal with Turkey for acquiring T-129 ATAK helicopters, the statement made by the DG ISPR was misconstrued on some digital media platforms.

“It is clarified that Pakistan has never ruled out an acquisition of military helicopters from Turkey. All speculations in this regard are baseless,” said ISPR.

Talking about the situation along the country’s eastern border, Maj Gen Babar said: “Our adversary is continuously procuring the latest equipment. Any conventional imbalance in the region is very dangerous and can lead to an arms race.”

On border fencing with Afghanistan, the ISPR chief said the situation on the western border remained challenging in 2021, mainly due to evolving situation in Afghanistan.

He explained that under a comprehensive border management regime, 94% of fence work on the Pak-Afghan border and 71% of fence work on the Pak-Iran border has been completed.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/233758...f-cancellation-of-helicopter-deal-with-turkey

this maybe true, as Philippines have secured a 6 helicopter deal with turkey worth around $280 million, they will be the first foreign buyer. I think they were delivered in December 2021.

US hasn't granted permission for the engine license, as its down to the US Congress to accept if any price is over $25million due to the engine is a joint operated by US Firm Honeywell and British Rolls-Royce.

Pakistan deal was for around $1.5billion for 30 helicopters.

So the above helicopter is T129 Twin engine multi role attack helicopter - made under licence by Italian-British company AugustaWestland - based on the augusta a129 magusta platform. Fueled by two LHTEC T800-4A turboshaft engines.

Are Pakistan going to china for cheaper alternatives???

 

[Napa]

“It is clarified that Pakistan has never ruled out an acquisition of military helicopters from Turkey. All speculations in this regard are baseless,” said ISPR.

The difference between "has never ruled out an acquisition" and "has ruled out not acquiring". The first is ambiguous, the second is definitive.

 

[Lonewarrior]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="tr" dir="ltr">Pakistan: “ATAK alımından vazgeçmedik”<br><br>- Pakistanlı askeri ve diplomatik yetkililer, Pakistan ATAK Programı hakkında SavunmaSanayiST'ye açıklamalarda bulundu<br><br>Detaylar <a href="https://t.co/Jeand8PQfz">https://t.co/Jeand8PQfz</a></p>— SavunmaSanayiST.com (@SavunmaSanayiST) <a href="https://twitter.com/SavunmaSanayiST/status/1479152657562578950?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 6, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>




Translation:

Pakistan: “We did not give up on the ATAK purchase” - Pakistani military and diplomatic officials made a statement to Savunma SanayiST about the Pakistani ATAK Program.


https://www.savunmasanayist.com/pakistan-atak-alimindan-vazgecmedik/