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UAE specialist Yasir Shah : Why is he so poor elsewhere?

Basically he is useless the minute he steps outside of Asia. At least with Ashwin he can hold down an end and be economical. Same can't be said for Yasir.
 
ikky47 said:
Basically he is useless the minute he steps outside of Asia. At least with Ashwin he can hold down an end and be economical. Same can't be said for Yasir.
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Indian s and Pakistanis are simply expecting too much from spinners outside their home venues.

Ashwin's away average = 31.xx
Yasir's away average = 34.xx
Lyons away average = 31.xx

It's about as good as spinners have done historically away from home. Unless you are shane Keith warne or muttiah muralithran.

You need quality batsmen and fast bowlers to win away. Only so much that spinners can do
 
Of course unless you are a Warne or a Murali as a spinner you will struggle away from home. But if you compare the economy rates of the 3 above spinners away from home you will notice how Yasir cannot hold down an end unlike the other 2. Even during the recent India series in England iirc Ashwin economy rate for the entire tour never went above 3 an over. Whilst for Yasir if conditions are not in his favour he regularly goes at over 3.5 an over.

And the less said about the Pakistan batting line up the better but I do agree to win away especially in SENA condition it is your fast bowlers and your batsmen who have a major role to play.
 
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Tbf though he hasn’t had a great chance to bowl in the fourth innings with the batting being so poor.
 
I know we are all down that yasir hasnt picked wickets but i wonder if any other spinners in the world would have taken any wickets on these pitches?

Obviously it makes matters worse if your batting line up cant even score 200...

May be going forward Pakistan should look for a spinner who can be a proper number 8. Someone like Zafar Gohar may be?
 
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Lol

He is being tonked at 4 runs an over. Leave alone taking wickets. He should at least stop runs. Pakistan are better off with a proper batsman for the next test rather than having this pedestrian player.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Nathan Lyon surely deserves more respect. Ashwin and Yasir should play in the home series only.
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Ahswin did pick up 5 top order wickets in first test and chipped in with runs in first inning. 6 wickets at 24 a piece in the first test. Bowled 86 overs by giving less than 2 runs per over allowing pacers to be fresh from other side. Any visiting spinner will be thrilled with that.
 
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Easy - in the UAE he is the strike bowler while overseas Sarfaraz has used him when the pacers tire and to contain runs. You simply do not play a leggie to contain runs as he will never have the control of a finger spinner and will bowl far too many loose deliveries.

These conditions do not warrant a specialist spinner at all, he shouldn't be even playing. Misbah made the same mistake when he was included in the 1st test vs NZ in 2016 on a green top where Pakistan's batting were blown away on the first day.
 
Basically we wasted a spot in 2 matches. Now after losing 2 matches, Sarfraz will realize his mistake.
 
Because he is and he was never a big turner of the ball.

Pakistan should replace him for such away tours with Irfan Khan who is technically sound batsman aswell.

Pakistan's FC pitches do not suit spinners hence his FC record isn't decent.
 
Horrible.

Worst spinner in the world right now particularly outside Asia.

Mickey Arthur and Sarfraz are clueless to let him play outside Asia.
 
Another double-hundred with a 4+ economy rate for the legend. Surely this has to be his last overseas tour, but you can expect anything from Misbah.
 
Yasir to Smith what Cronje was to Sachin, great bats are sometimes troubled by lesser bowlers.
 
He doesn’t have the control for pitches with bounce or green seaming ones. Every delivery that he gets driven or cut for 4 would be a dot ball on low pitches
 
Tough gig at the moment for him with 2 young pacers and Imran Khan. He's expected to maintain control, take wickets and lead the attack.
 
Saj said:
Tough gig at the moment for him with 2 young pacers and Imran Khan. He's expected to maintain control, take wickets and lead the attack.
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It’s technical - I used to be a mediocre leggie.

Outside Asia, where the bounce is consistent, a leg-spinner’s main tool on days 1-4 is bounce.

Leggies come in two main types.

Round-arm ones like Yasir have a better stock leg-break, but struggle to bowl a googly and don’t get overspin to create menacing bounce. Such bowlers usually do best in Asia.

High-arm ones like Mushtaq Ahmed and Shadab Khan struggle with their stock leg-break, but have a dangerous googly and get overspin, which means that on hard Southern Hemisphere wickets they are much more effective.

Yasir remains completely unsuited technically to bowling in the Southern Henisphere. He will always go for 4 runs an over down here.

Even Haris Sohail was more dangerous because his higher action got him bounce.

If they won’t pick Shadab, at least Zafar Gohar has a high action and would be more economical in the Southern Hemisphere.
 
Junaids said:
It’s technical - I used to be a mediocre leggie.

Outside Asia, where the bounce is consistent, a leg-spinner’s main tool on days 1-4 is bounce.

Leggies come in two main types.

Round-arm ones like Yasir have a better stock leg-break, but struggle to bowl a googly and don’t get overspin to create menacing bounce. Such bowlers usually do best in Asia.

High-arm ones like Mushtaq Ahmed and Shadab Khan struggle with their stock leg-break, but have a dangerous googly and get overspin, which means that on hard Southern Hemisphere wickets they are much more effective.

Yasir remains completely unsuited technically to bowling in the Southern Henisphere. He will always go for 4 runs an over down here.

Even Haris Sohail was more dangerous because his higher action got him bounce.

If they won’t pick Shadab, at least Zafar Gohar has a high action and would be more economical in the Southern Hemisphere.
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Not necessarily. Shane Warne had a round arm action but did superbly in the southern hemisphere.
 
Sher Khan said:
Not necessarily. Shane Warne had a round arm action but did superbly in the southern hemisphere.
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I knew someone would point that out.

But Warne grew up on these wickets. And used variety of flight to make up for lack of bounce.

Yasir doesn’t.
 
Junaids said:
I knew someone would point that out.

But Warne grew up on these wickets. And used variety of flight to make up for lack of bounce.

Yasir doesn’t.
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Warne was also 100x more accurate. This dude can't land the ball on the same spot 3 times in an over let alone 6.
 
Main reasons:
1. Lack of variety - hardly seen him bowl googlies, sliders, top spinners, or flippers. Leg spinners thrive on variety and his lack of the same has made him predictable.

2. Hit-me ball every over - his lack of control causes release of pressure over sustained periods of time and doesn't require the batsmen to any risks to score runs.

3. Lack of another strike bowler at the other end - bowlers best work in pairs and he doesn't have anyone reliable to help him out in any way from the other end - either by taking wickets or by controlling runs.

4. Not every pitch is dry - his alarming reliance on dry pitches to be half as effective is reflective of his lack of variations in his bowling and results of that are very apparent in his bowling figures outside of UAE and a select couple of other grounds.
 
He lacks the variety. He had a good purple patch but since that West Indies series in 2017, he has been poor for the most part.
 
Junaids said:
It’s technical - I used to be a mediocre leggie.

Outside Asia, where the bounce is consistent, a leg-spinner’s main tool on days 1-4 is bounce.

Leggies come in two main types.

Round-arm ones like Yasir have a better stock leg-break, but struggle to bowl a googly and don’t get overspin to create menacing bounce. Such bowlers usually do best in Asia.

High-arm ones like Mushtaq Ahmed and Shadab Khan struggle with their stock leg-break, but have a dangerous googly and get overspin, which means that on hard Southern Hemisphere wickets they are much more effective.

Yasir remains completely unsuited technically to bowling in the Southern Henisphere. He will always go for 4 runs an over down here.

Even Haris Sohail was more dangerous because his higher action got him bounce.

If they won’t pick Shadab, at least Zafar Gohar has a high action and would be more economical in the Southern Hemisphere.
Click to expand...

Your analysis though considered is ultimately false. I’ll explain why.

Firstly to be clear I’m a real fan of yasir. He’s not a great leg spinner but he’s the main one we have. His qualities don’t need regurgitating but let’s focus on deficiencies.

You say he’s technically unsound for Southern Hemisphere bowling because of lack of bounce and variety due to round arm action. This is not correct! His round arm action is perfectly suited to generate at least a flipper and he can get bounce due to revs on the ball. But this presupposes beating batsmen “after” the ball pitches.

I would contend that Warne with his round arm action beat batsmen “before” the ball landed. Yasir could quite easily do the same. He doesn’t need variety (Warne hardly bowled a googly ) top spinner or flipper is enough.

A good leg spinner doesn’t need to turn the ball miles. After his shoulder injury the amount of turn Warne got was considerably less. But he was even more deadly.

Now of course one could say that warne was a genius and it’s wrong to compare yasir with warne but let’s remember around 1999-2000 McGill was neck and neck with Warne with a similar round arm action and often outbowled him. I remember warne imploring almost begging for wickets to have something to show for his efforts after shoulder injury. But McGill was equally adept at what I’m gonna explain below.

what can yasir emulate from other round arm leggies. Firstly captaincy and field placement that includes packing the bowling with tight bowlers at the other end. They don’t all need to be glen McGrath but a Shaun pollock type bowler is fine. And a close in Bat pad fielder at both leg side and off side.

Secondly utilise the drift, blind spot and control. Almost all round arm leggies have the ability to throw the ball on middle and leg stump and put over spin to create “drift out”and spin towards a rhb off stump. To do this again and again is the round arm leggies main weapon as with enough loop you can utilise the batsman’s blind spot and cause him to lose the ball above the eyeline or past his left eye. I just don’t see yasir doing this enough. If he bowled slower, loopier, allowed drift to curve the ball towards leg and spun it away he would be a very good leggie. If he had a flipper to create variety he would be deadly. He does do this like he did to Wade yesterday first ball but his lack of consistency is his real downfall.

So it’s not that he’s not good enough to bowl in Southern Hemisphere. He is mire than capable if he did above and bowled alongside Abbas.

He needs to bowl with patience. He needs to take time between deliveries. He needs to work on a batsman’s mind rather than just rushing in ball after ball.
 
For all the talk of lack of variety, fact of the matter is that Yasir's leg-break is neither threatening nor accurate enough. Batsmen can sit patiently for him to bowl one or two bad balls every over.

He's not learned at all over the five years he has been playing international cricket and I don't hold much hope of him becoming more accurate as his fitness wanes.
 
He should focus on landing 3 balls at same spot. In UAE, he can get away with many hit me balls, but not in pitches with decent bounce.
 
He has no variety at one time I thought he could be as good as Warne but lets be honest he lives off one performance in 10ish matches.

Shadab should be front line leg spinner because of his variety.
 
Pakistani fans don’t know good they have it with yasir shah

He would walk into any test in the world

South Africa still using imran tahir
New Zealand try what they can with sodhi
And England are stuck with rashid

While Bangladesh are forcing country teams to play leg spiners
 
I think Yasir is not poor elsewhere (outside UAE), rather he is very good st UAE type wicket - his record in WIN is phenomenal and he’ll do well in South Asia as well.

The main reason is, Yasir isn’t a big turner and doesn’t have much variations- he is a pressure bowlers with extreme accuracy (when fit), which works perfectly on dead slow UAE tracks; where batsman can’t play shots and one by one he hunts them. Even in UAE, he is taking like 7 wickets/Test after bowling close to 60 overs!!!! His economy in SRL, WIN & UAE is like 2.75, elsewhere combined close to 3.5, which never allows him to build pressure. At Gabba, he took 4/205, in 48 overs - easily could have been 6/105 after 48 overs in UAE.

And nice his accuracy goes down, he won’t be that effective in UAE either.
 
Abid Z said:
Your analysis though considered is ultimately false. I’ll explain why.

Firstly to be clear I’m a real fan of yasir. He’s not a great leg spinner but he’s the main one we have. His qualities don’t need regurgitating but let’s focus on deficiencies.

You say he’s technically unsound for Southern Hemisphere bowling because of lack of bounce and variety due to round arm action. This is not correct! His round arm action is perfectly suited to generate at least a flipper and he can get bounce due to revs on the ball. But this presupposes beating batsmen “after” the ball pitches.

I would contend that Warne with his round arm action beat batsmen “before” the ball landed. Yasir could quite easily do the same. He doesn’t need variety (Warne hardly bowled a googly ) top spinner or flipper is enough.

A good leg spinner doesn’t need to turn the ball miles. After his shoulder injury the amount of turn Warne got was considerably less. But he was even more deadly.

Now of course one could say that warne was a genius and it’s wrong to compare yasir with warne but let’s remember around 1999-2000 McGill was neck and neck with Warne with a similar round arm action and often outbowled him. I remember warne imploring almost begging for wickets to have something to show for his efforts after shoulder injury. But McGill was equally adept at what I’m gonna explain below.

what can yasir emulate from other round arm leggies. Firstly captaincy and field placement that includes packing the bowling with tight bowlers at the other end. They don’t all need to be glen McGrath but a Shaun pollock type bowler is fine. And a close in Bat pad fielder at both leg side and off side.

Secondly utilise the drift, blind spot and control. Almost all round arm leggies have the ability to throw the ball on middle and leg stump and put over spin to create “drift out”and spin towards a rhb off stump. To do this again and again is the round arm leggies main weapon as with enough loop you can utilise the batsman’s blind spot and cause him to lose the ball above the eyeline or past his left eye. I just don’t see yasir doing this enough. If he bowled slower, loopier, allowed drift to curve the ball towards leg and spun it away he would be a very good leggie. If he had a flipper to create variety he would be deadly. He does do this like he did to Wade yesterday first ball but his lack of consistency is his real downfall.

So it’s not that he’s not good enough to bowl in Southern Hemisphere. He is mire than capable if he did above and bowled alongside Abbas.

He needs to bowl with patience. He needs to take time between deliveries. He needs to work on a batsman’s mind rather than just rushing in ball after ball.
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Beautifully articulated post. Just have one question, don't you think a leggie that requires a 'Shaun Pollock type' bowler bowling at the other end to look good is a bit of a high maintenance? Is he really worth that much? Since Shaun Pollock is a certified ATG with the ball alone and averages 23 after 100+ test matches, pretty sure finding his type, so that Yasir doesn't get taken to the cleaners, would be pretty damn difficult, is Yasir really worth that much trouble in Australia of all places?
 
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