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Usman Shinwari’s potential - How good can he become?

Theo_14

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Obviously a very talented player as today’s performance would suggest but over the past few months he has displayed inconsistency in terms of line and length and economy rate.

A young player who still has a lot to learn. Exposed himself in foreign leagues which will only enhance his understanding of the game.

A fine performance today and heartening to see him dedicate his 4 wickets for 35 runs to cancer patients. Good pace too.

Potential wise, how good can he become? Where do you see him in few years time? Can he get better? What does he need to work on?
 
Unlike the over rated Amir. He picks up wickets
 
Decent back up option but nothing more than that. Doesn’t have the skills to consistently succeed against decent opposition.

IMO he’s definitely not a lock for the WC; and that’s why it would have been ideal to pick someone like Ahmed Bashir for the upcoming T20 series.
 
If amir has lost his way to swing back in, he can replace him. But i would rather see Faheem in, as he would consolidate our deep batting order
 
Faheem deeping batting ....what has he done in the batting department so far....
 
An inferior version of Wahab Riaz. That's it. Unless he develops swing
 
Faheem deeping batting ....what has he done in the batting department so far....

I mean, he can, that's why. Or any all rounder who can bowl 10 overs fast 140kph would be good. Faheem can hit few boundaries in england for us
 
Bowls well with the old bowl and to tail. Effective with the new ball only when he gets swing.
 
I mean, he can, that's why. Or any all rounder who can bowl 10 overs fast 140kph would be good. Faheem can hit few boundaries in england for us

that sounds good in theory except he's been worse than amir with the bat and amir isn't even an all rounder

hasan ali isn't an all rounder and he's done more with the bat
 
that sounds good in theory except he's been worse than amir with the bat and amir isn't even an all rounder

hasan ali isn't an all rounder and he's done more with the bat

I do agree that he hasn't been better. But he is certainly better as a batsman, compared to Amir. And I would keep this team combination and only drop Shinwari for Faheem and may be Amir for Hassan in world cup.
 
A rhythm bowler like Gul and Junaid. They can pick wickets when things are going their way, but they are always on the cusp of getting smashed and losing their team the game. Don't look too much into this performance.
 
I do agree that he hasn't been better. But he is certainly better as a batsman, compared to Amir. And I would keep this team combination and only drop Shinwari for Faheem and may be Amir for Hassan in world cup.

lol again, amir has done more with the bat than faheem ever has.

just like those asif ali fans, you guys are too distracted by what he CAN do rather than he HAS done.

which is nothing.

amir
shaheen
hasan
imad
shadab

is the way to go for the world cup

faheem is horrible with the bat
 
lol again, amir has done more with the bat than faheem ever has.

just like those asif ali fans, you guys are too distracted by what he CAN do rather than he HAS done.

which is nothing.

amir
shaheen
hasan
imad
shadab

is the way to go for the world cup

faheem is horrible with the bat

Check first class stats of Faheem. He has an average of 30, compared to 15 of amir. I rest my case. Unless, Amir got swing up his sleeve, he is just slanting balls at an angle with 135 speed, which Faheem can do better at 140. Batting is just a bonus
 
Check first class stats of Faheem. He has an average of 30, compared to 15 of amir. I rest my case. Unless, Amir got swing up his sleeve, he is just slanting balls at an angle with 135 speed, which Faheem can do better at 140. Batting is just a bonus

what does first class have to do with odis?

if you knew anything about cricket you'd know how dumb you sound
 
A rhythm bowler like Gul and Junaid. They can pick wickets when things are going their way, but they are always on the cusp of getting smashed and losing their team the game. Don't look too much into this performance.

Very good comparison
 
what does first class have to do with odis?

if you knew anything about cricket you'd know how dumb you sound

I do know. And i don't think it's dumb. Players are selected based upon their first class performance
 
I do know. And i don't think it's dumb. Players are selected based upon their first class performance

and your probably one of the same people that would select odi players based on test matches.
 
Didn't catch SAF batting - was Shinwari getting the ball to swing into the right hander or still mainly looking to push it across ?
 
Didn't catch SAF batting - was Shinwari getting the ball to swing into the right hander or still mainly looking to push it across ?

push it across

then he came around the wicket and bowled his spells from there
 
Junaid Khan type of bowler will pick up some wickets in some matches. He isn’t going to be a great or anything close. Just a lucky one off performance.
 
Junaid Khan type of bowler will pick up some wickets in some matches. He isn’t going to be a great or anything close. Just a lucky one off performance.

junaid khan is far better than usman
 
I do not rate him as a good bolwer. An average bolwer who will give such performance every seven to eight matches.

All of his wicket-taking balls were regular deliveries. Nothing special!

I would not look much into his performance today.
 
A rhythm bowler like Gul and Junaid. They can pick wickets when things are going their way, but they are always on the cusp of getting smashed and losing their team the game. Don't look too much into this performance.

I don't know how good Shinwari could become, but I'm glad we can all agree that we should never want to find out. With an Ave 16, SR 20 in ODIs, with 2 5 fers and 1 4fer in 11 matches, why on earth would we ever want to let this looser have a few more goes? Of course he's a 'rythm bowler,' just like Gul, with his Ave 29, SR 33, who needed 130 matches to take 2 5fers. The resemblance is so uncanny I got goosebumps when I read it. And Junaid, why on earth would we want that limp biscuit who was top pace bowling wicket taker at the CT after Hasan Ali in England have another go at a WC being played in....England. As always, a relief that sane minds are prevailing on the board.
 
I do not rate him as a good bolwer. An average bolwer who will give such performance every seven to eight matches.

All of his wicket-taking balls were regular deliveries. Nothing special!

I would not look much into his performance today.

As opposed to world beating bowlers like Amir, who will never give such performances.
 
Junaid Khan type of bowler will pick up some wickets in some matches. He isn’t going to be a great or anything close. Just a lucky one off performance.

Ya, Junaid Khan was just awful in the CT wasn't he. Just 2-3 wickets every game, I mean, that is just lazy.
 
Ya, Junaid Khan was just awful in the CT wasn't he. Just 2-3 wickets every game, I mean, that is just lazy.

silly junaid for not going for 90 runs every match and bowling no ball after no ball.

damn you junaid for not giving the fans a legit reason to slit their wrists!
 
I don't know how good Shinwari could become, but I'm glad we can all agree that we should never want to find out. With an Ave 16, SR 20 in ODIs, with 2 5 fers and 1 4fer in 11 matches, why on earth would we ever want to let this looser have a few more goes? Of course he's a 'rythm bowler,' just like Gul, with his Ave 29, SR 33, who needed 130 matches to take 2 5fers. The resemblance is so uncanny I got goosebumps when I read it. And Junaid, why on earth would we want that limp biscuit who was top pace bowling wicket taker at the CT after Hasan Ali in England have another go at a WC being played in....England. As always, a relief that sane minds are prevailing on the board.

haha good post :))
 
For the 10 ODIs vs Aus and Eng, our three frontline seamers should be rotated between Shaheen, Junaid, Shinwari and Ali. Maybe add another seamer from domestic.

We need to be done with Amir.
 
Not convinced about him. He had a very good game today but I don't feel he is good enough to succeed consistently. The fact that he is injury-prone makes things worse. I would prefer Junaid over him.

I think he is in the team for his pace. Among the current Pakistani ODI bowlers he is certainly the fastest.
 
He can be good for sure. Lets not get carried away like Pak fans do after a few decent performances like with Amir. Hasan Ali, Junaid and Shinwari look like a good attack to me then we also have Shaheen as well. I have never been a big Amir fan at all.
 
For the 10 ODIs vs Aus and Eng, our three frontline seamers should be rotated between Shaheen, Junaid, Shinwari and Ali. Maybe add another seamer from domestic.

We need to be done with Amir.

when is the 5 odis vs australia
 
An inferior version of Umar Gul. Can be devastating on his day but will go for plenty on others.
 
For God's sake you need right arm fast bowlers not left armers. Pick only 1 left arm pace bowler in the side at max.
 
The first time I saw Shinwari was in a domestic match and he was swinging the ball miles and had the best of a very strong opposition team - I may be wrong but Rizwan, and Misbah were two of his victims. That also probably led to a quick international recall but then he didn't perform well and then had injuries to deal with.

That Shinwari was a 135 kph max swing bowler who was having a beautiful wrist position and in favorable conditions made the ball talk.

This Shinwari is a bit here and a bit there. The speed has increased but it isn't comparable to a genuine fast bowler's speed. The swing is very rare, but then it still is sometimes and he can be good with the old ball.

On some days he looks okay, on others he totally looks clueless and tends to fall apart under pressure. His ODI numbers are good, no doubt but then these numbers will be normalized over time.

He isn't blessed with the advantage of height. That goes against him and often times floats the ball a bit too much.

As of now, if I'd be rating him, I'd give him 3.5/5 with a "meets expectations" score. An honest trier and definitely someone who should be in the squad but I'm unsure if he can be the leader of our pace attack. He's a par below Shaheen and Hasan as of now but is definitely above Junaid and Amir in the pecking order from what it looks from a distance.
 
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Good to see Shinwari finally picking a wicket against a Top team. I hope he continues to perform, but still he needs to work on his bowling in many areas.
 
Another wahab riaz imo. Bowls all over the place. SA were just brainless today

Don't really see the comparison. Wahab was gun straight and always bowled short of length. Usman at least has the angle with the ball and looks to attack the stumps.

I think he's better than people think but does lack consistency right now. I think he's better used as a first change bowler after the first 10 overs.
 
He's way too one-dimensional specially when bowling over the wicket to right-handers. Around the wicket seems to be a better strategy for him because over the wicket, he has one plan (angle the ball away) and if he misses his line by any margin, it becomes a boundary ball more often than not. Around the wicket, he has more margin for error and can focus on attacking the batsmen.
 
The first time I saw Shinwari was in a domestic match and he was swinging the ball miles and had the best of a very strong opposition team - I may be wrong but Rizwan, and Misbah were two of his victims. That also probably led to a quick international recall but then he didn't perform well and then had injuries to deal with.

That Shinwari was a 135 kph max swing bowler who was having a beautiful wrist position and in favorable conditions made the ball talk.

This Shinwari is a bit here and a bit there. The speed has increased but it isn't comparable to a genuine fast bowler's speed. The swing is very rare, but then it still is sometimes and he can be good with the old ball.

On some days he looks okay, on others he totally looks clueless and tends to fall apart under pressure. His ODI numbers are good, no doubt but then these numbers will be normalized over time.

He isn't blessed with the advantage of height. That goes against him and often times floats the ball a bit too much.

As of now, if I'd be rating him, I'd give him 3.5/5 with a "meets expectations" score. An honest trier and definitely someone who should be in the squad but I'm unsure if he can be the leader of our pace attack. He's a par below Shaheen and Hasan as of now but is definitely above Junaid and Amir in the pecking order from what it looks from a distance.

If that is the case, this is one bowler who has actually 'increased' his speed in Pakistan colors. Everyone else seem to lose 10kph the moment they get out of bed to claim their green cap.
 
If that is the case, this is one bowler who has actually 'increased' his speed in Pakistan colors. Everyone else seem to lose 10kph the moment they get out of bed to claim their green cap.

Found the video. It's very long but Shinwari's spell is upfront.


 
Best bowling figures today, but let's not forget how the top order batsmen played him with ease.

He is a good bowler, nothing special. The kind of bowler that will either give you 4/45 or 0/70.
 
I don't know how good Shinwari could become, but I'm glad we can all agree that we should never want to find out. With an Ave 16, SR 20 in ODIs, with 2 5 fers and 1 4fer in 11 matches, why on earth would we ever want to let this looser have a few more goes? Of course he's a 'rythm bowler,' just like Gul, with his Ave 29, SR 33, who needed 130 matches to take 2 5fers. The resemblance is so uncanny I got goosebumps when I read it. And Junaid, why on earth would we want that limp biscuit who was top pace bowling wicket taker at the CT after Hasan Ali in England have another go at a WC being played in....England. As always, a relief that sane minds are prevailing on the board.

Shinwari has 2 four wicket hauls 1 five wicket haul in 11 innings, but outside these 3 games, he has almost nothing to show for. This is actually a worrying trend, because it indicates his tendency to go big or go home. Obviously, a five wicket haul every 10 or 11 innings is brilliant, but it is highly unlikely that he will be able to sustain it. Not many bowlers in history of ODI cricket have been able to do so.

This actually takes me back to the Abbas discussion post the Australian series. The skepticism over his ability to maintain his average of 14-15 was not irrational because he has followed it up with an average of close to 50 over the next two series. His average is now 18 which is not sustainable either.

Similarly, Shinwari's average of 16 odd is not something that he can maintain. At this early stage, it is misleading to look at milestones. The more worrying trend is his inconsistency, which will be an inevitable problem unless he can maintain his rate of taking fifers.
 
I honestly still dont feel confident about him, his wickets today were mainly of bowlers. He is a very inconsistent bowler. He took several wickets today, might end up getting smashed in the next match. I still maintain that Shaheen and Junaid are the top two bowlers of Pakistan.
 
Shinwari has 2 four wicket hauls 1 five wicket haul in 11 innings, but outside these 3 games, he has almost nothing to show for. This is actually a worrying trend, because it indicates his tendency to go big or go home. Obviously, a five wicket haul every 10 or 11 innings is brilliant, but it is highly unlikely that he will be able to sustain it. Not many bowlers in history of ODI cricket have been able to do so.

This actually takes me back to the Abbas discussion post the Australian series. The skepticism over his ability to maintain his average of 14-15 was not irrational because he has followed it up with an average of close to 50 over the next two series. His average is now 18 which is not sustainable either.

Similarly, Shinwari's average of 16 odd is not something that he can maintain. At this early stage, it is misleading to look at milestones. The more worrying trend is his inconsistency, which will be an inevitable problem unless he can maintain his rate of taking fifers.

Better than the over rated medium pace bowing Zulfiqar Babar we keep selecting again and again
 
Shinwari got 4 wickets in 7 deliveries and made SA collapse from 157/5 to 164 all out. Now that is very Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Akhtarisque stuff and that is what is needed from our bowlers to change games. His spell and burst changed the game in Pakistan's favor. Amir cannot do this even if his life depends on it
 
Shinwari got 4 wickets in 7 deliveries and made SA collapse from 157/5 to 164 all out. Now that is very Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Akhtarisque stuff and that is what is needed from our bowlers to change games. His spell and burst changed the game in Pakistan's favor. Amir cannot do this even if his life depends on it

Impact. That is what Amir has been lacking for quite a while now. Good to see Amir demoted to first change, since he generally wastes the new ball, at least now he will know he's not been up to the mark with the new ball. I like the look of an attack of Hasan and Shaheen opening the bowling, with Shinwari as first change.
 
Faheem deeping batting ....what has he done in the batting department so far....

That is the main point.

Faheem should have locked his place but unfortunately his batting has not been good. If Faheem has to play he has to bat as a bowling all rounder.,
 
Didn't catch SAF batting - was Shinwari getting the ball to swing into the right hander or still mainly looking to push it across ?

zero in-swing with the new ball, mate.

Got some reverse-swing bowling from around the wicket towards the end, but that's about it.
 
Good spell today but not convinced that he can remain a permanent member of the playing XI.
 
Potential wise, how good can he become?


Peak Junaid Khan of 2011-2013


Where do you see him in few years time? Can he get better?


This depends on his professional intelligence and work ethics, because he has a lot to work on to improve his game.


What does he need to work on?


This is the most interesting part of your thread and I would like to address it in detail.



1. Usman Khan Shinwari should understand that his biggest competitor in last many years hasn’t been any fast bowler but his own fitness. Majid Ali for a short time really excited me and was a better product than all left arm pacers in Pakistan but don’t know what went wrong with him.


Usman’s biggest issue is his fitness. He gets unfit too often and it’s not because he doesn’t give 100 % to his training but because of his bowling action and it’s technical sides.



Usman has modelled his action on Umar Gul. As a left armer that’s not a good role model in terms of trying to copy a right arm pacer but this can’t be changed now.



He is a strong candidate for :


1. Considerably Sore and stiff back after each Odi where he bowls 10 overs.

2. Side strains.



Why is that ?



In my view his bowling action is not economical and his body takes extra toll.


His follow through by no means is smooth and he finds it quite difficult to get himself balanced after delivering the ball.


He exerts lots of effort on each ball he bowls, probably what 150 plus kph bowlers exert but mostly operates in high 130’s or low 140’s because his action is not biomechanically efficient.



What are the issues ?


The biggest issue is his posture right before delivering the ball.

Usman fails to be perpendicular ie his arm and body doesn’t come from 12’ o clock mark. His body falls towards right side and arm comes from 1:30 mark.


A. With this he loses atleast 5kph as his body is not behind completely when he delivers the ball.

B. He loses some height so he gets lesser bounce than the optimum bounce he extracts.

C. With this predominantly his wrist naturally would be pointed towards 1st slip so the ball will go with the angle and he would fail to shape it back into right hand batsman mostly and at most can just straighten. While he can swing it away from left hand batsman only when he pitches the ball at 4th or 5th stump line.

D. Side strain candidate.



This is why when he gets tonked he prefers around the wicket angle against RHB because he can than devoid the batsman of the room they are looking for to smoke ke the ball through the offside as Amal did yesterday when Usman operated from over the wicket.



To become unpredictable and devasting strike force Usman should have the capability to surprise the RHB by bringing the ball back into them from 4th stump angle so that the batsman is wary of his exploits. This way he would get lbws and bowled dismissals in play aswell. Wasim and Boult are prime examples aswell as peak Amir for Usman to understand this.



Now here comes the role of analysts with Pakistan team and analysts at NCA along with role of Mickey, Azhar, Mudassar and Mushtaq.


Slight changes in action are required along with drills. His action needs to be modified.



His bowling arm needs to be perpendicular when he releases the ball. ie 12 o clock angle.


Body should be upright and behind the ball.


He would than be able to bowl closer to the stumps and would develop the capacity to bring the ball back into RHB naturally with ideal wrist position.


He would than become Fast bowler who would quite often cross 145 kph mark and would get less injury prone aswell. His 2nd and 3rd spells would not see sharp dip of speed as witnessed now and he would get better bounce aswell.




This will make him a consistent performer and a match winner aswell.




He must improve in this area. If he doesn’t than I am afraid in long run younger guys would replace him. For instance at present I strongly believe that Ahmed Bashir is a better prospect and I am looking forward at him to somehow get into PSL incase of injury.

Than there is Arshad Iqbal who requires some work on his fitness and run up after which he will be ready.


Musa is short but quick enough while Naseem & Shaur are exciting talents.




Coming back to Usman I am not sure if before WC we can see his technical transformation because there isn’t enough time at the moment with busy schedule. Once he got unfit after destroying SL he has shown enough future promise but since our system is too old and way behind developed systems hence he lacked the vision and professionalism to not just do the rehabilitation work but bring back a refined improved Usman back into Int Cricket.
 
Peak Junaid Khan of 2011-2013





This depends on his professional intelligence and work ethics, because he has a lot to work on to improve his game.





This is the most interesting part of your thread and I would like to address it in detail.



1. Usman Khan Shinwari should understand that his biggest competitor in last many years hasn’t been any fast bowler but his own fitness. Majid Ali for a short time really excited me and was a better product than all left arm pacers in Pakistan but don’t know what went wrong with him.


Usman’s biggest issue is his fitness. He gets unfit too often and it’s not because he doesn’t give 100 % to his training but because of his bowling action and it’s technical sides.



Usman has modelled his action on Umar Gul. As a left armer that’s not a good role model in terms of trying to copy a right arm pacer but this can’t be changed now.



He is a strong candidate for :


1. Considerably Sore and stiff back after each Odi where he bowls 10 overs.

2. Side strains.



Why is that ?



In my view his bowling action is not economical and his body takes extra toll.


His follow through by no means is smooth and he finds it quite difficult to get himself balanced after delivering the ball.


He exerts lots of effort on each ball he bowls, probably what 150 plus kph bowlers exert but mostly operates in high 130’s or low 140’s because his action is not biomechanically efficient.



What are the issues ?


The biggest issue is his posture right before delivering the ball.

Usman fails to be perpendicular ie his arm and body doesn’t come from 12’ o clock mark. His body falls towards right side and arm comes from 1:30 mark.


A. With this he loses atleast 5kph as his body is not behind completely when he delivers the ball.

B. He loses some height so he gets lesser bounce than the optimum bounce he extracts.

C. With this predominantly his wrist naturally would be pointed towards 1st slip so the ball will go with the angle and he would fail to shape it back into right hand batsman mostly and at most can just straighten. While he can swing it away from left hand batsman only when he pitches the ball at 4th or 5th stump line.

D. Side strain candidate.



This is why when he gets tonked he prefers around the wicket angle against RHB because he can than devoid the batsman of the room they are looking for to smoke ke the ball through the offside as Amal did yesterday when Usman operated from over the wicket.



To become unpredictable and devasting strike force Usman should have the capability to surprise the RHB by bringing the ball back into them from 4th stump angle so that the batsman is wary of his exploits. This way he would get lbws and bowled dismissals in play aswell. Wasim and Boult are prime examples aswell as peak Amir for Usman to understand this.



Now here comes the role of analysts with Pakistan team and analysts at NCA along with role of Mickey, Azhar, Mudassar and Mushtaq.


Slight changes in action are required along with drills. His action needs to be modified.



His bowling arm needs to be perpendicular when he releases the ball. ie 12 o clock angle.


Body should be upright and behind the ball.


He would than be able to bowl closer to the stumps and would develop the capacity to bring the ball back into RHB naturally with ideal wrist position.


He would than become Fast bowler who would quite often cross 145 kph mark and would get less injury prone aswell. His 2nd and 3rd spells would not see sharp dip of speed as witnessed now and he would get better bounce aswell.




This will make him a consistent performer and a match winner aswell.




He must improve in this area. If he doesn’t than I am afraid in long run younger guys would replace him. For instance at present I strongly believe that Ahmed Bashir is a better prospect and I am looking forward at him to somehow get into PSL incase of injury.

Than there is Arshad Iqbal who requires some work on his fitness and run up after which he will be ready.


Musa is short but quick enough while Naseem & Shaur are exciting talents.




Coming back to Usman I am not sure if before WC we can see his technical transformation because there isn’t enough time at the moment with busy schedule. Once he got unfit after destroying SL he has shown enough future promise but since our system is too old and way behind developed systems hence he lacked the vision and professionalism to not just do the rehabilitation work but bring back a refined improved Usman back into Int Cricket.

Not sure about his grips as well...seems to be holding on too tight...
 
For such a muscular busty physique, he should be consistently bowling in the 140's. He hits the deck hard, if he can rediscover the new ball swing which he had early in his career. We have an unexpected super star.
 
I don't think he's got that much potential. He's a decent third seamer, but doesn't generate that much pace or bounce because of his relatively short stature. He seems temperamentally tough, and has aggression which is in his favour, and can swing the old ball like most other Pakistan bowlers.

Let's not forget that his wickets yesterday came against the tail, not the top order as well.
 
Against Australia for 1st three onedayers
Shaheen
Junaid khan should open bowling and
First change be Hassan ali
For next two onedayers
Amir
Faheem Ashraf should open and
Shinwari be first change
 
I don't know how good Shinwari could become, but I'm glad we can all agree that we should never want to find out. With an Ave 16, SR 20 in ODIs, with 2 5 fers and 1 4fer in 11 matches, why on earth would we ever want to let this looser have a few more goes? Of course he's a 'rythm bowler,' just like Gul, with his Ave 29, SR 33, who needed 130 matches to take 2 5fers. The resemblance is so uncanny I got goosebumps when I read it. And Junaid, why on earth would we want that limp biscuit who was top pace bowling wicket taker at the CT after Hasan Ali in England have another go at a WC being played in....England. As always, a relief that sane minds are prevailing on the board.

Long time no see!

You're again falling for stats blindly. Cricket doesn't work like that.

On ability and potential, he isn't good enough and will not last 3 years. Again, some selective stats at the start of one's career don't mean anything.

Similar case was for Abbas, who we knew didn't have an outswinger and with his trundling pace, batsmen could counter him if they look for the ball that comes in.

Naturally, his average is going to get to "normal" or "poor" range. That's how things have worked since the invention of cricket.

Nobody can maintain a 14-17 average over a large sample size.

Shinwari is very low quality bowler and obviously will have far more bad days than good ones.
 
It has become a routine over here to write off players who perform as garbage and big up players who don't do jack. Classic case of the difference in the way Shinwari and Amir are viewed.
 
Shinwari has 2 four wicket hauls 1 five wicket haul in 11 innings, but outside these 3 games, he has almost nothing to show for. This is actually a worrying trend, because it indicates his tendency to go big or go home. Obviously, a five wicket haul every 10 or 11 innings is brilliant, but it is highly unlikely that he will be able to sustain it. Not many bowlers in history of ODI cricket have been able to do so.

This actually takes me back to the Abbas discussion post the Australian series. The skepticism over his ability to maintain his average of 14-15 was not irrational because he has followed it up with an average of close to 50 over the next two series. His average is now 18 which is not sustainable either.

Similarly, Shinwari's average of 16 odd is not something that he can maintain. At this early stage, it is misleading to look at milestones. The more worrying trend is his inconsistency, which will be an inevitable problem unless he can maintain his rate of taking fifers.

So you're argument is that out of the 11 ODIs he has played in, he has only performed match-winning spells in 3 of them?
 
If you take out the 3 match-winning spells that Shinwari has had in 11 matches, you get:


9 wickets at an average of 28.22 and economy rate of 5.08 across 50 overs.
 
If you take out the 3 match-winning spells that Shinwari has had in 11 matches, you get:


9 wickets at an average of 28.22 and economy rate of 5.08 across 50 overs.

Still better than wicketless Amir. I don't care about his economy as long as he picks up wickets
 
Long time no see!

You're again falling for stats blindly. Cricket doesn't work like that.

On ability and potential, he isn't good enough and will not last 3 years. Again, some selective stats at the start of one's career don't mean anything.

Similar case was for Abbas, who we knew didn't have an outswinger and with his trundling pace, batsmen could counter him if they look for the ball that comes in.

Naturally, his average is going to get to "normal" or "poor" range. That's how things have worked since the invention of cricket.

Nobody can maintain a 14-17 average over a large sample size.

Shinwari is very low quality bowler and obviously will have far more bad days than good ones.

Sad to see you expect his average to end up like Amir's. Harsh.
 
Still better than wicketless Amir. I don't care about his economy as long as he picks up wickets

I think his point is that he has decent stats even if you take out his match-winning performances (in fact, better than Amir's overall stats).
 
lol again, amir has done more with the bat than faheem ever has.

just like those asif ali fans, you guys are too distracted by what he CAN do rather than he HAS done.

which is nothing.

amir
shaheen
hasan
imad
shadab


is the way to go for the world cup

faheem is horrible with the bat

That is the best bowling combination possible for Pakistan.
 
No replace Amir with Junaid. Amir is a garbage player

I would back AMir because, he has the ability to step into another gear when needed. I don't think others are capable of doing that. Even before CT final not many were in favor of Amer as he didn't do well against India in the first encounter in CT. Shaheen Afridi is raw. Need someone with experience to partner him.
 
Pakistan has not needed Amir to step into another gear in the last 20 ODI's and test matches.

This rubbish just takes the cake. No wonder we are languishing at the bottom of the rankings because we persist with mediocrity
 
If you take out the 3 match-winning spells that Shinwari has had in 11 matches, you get:


9 wickets at an average of 28.22 and economy rate of 5.08 across 50 overs.

Yeah I'm sure if you eliminate a player's most dominant performance then they are average or below average. What an absurd thing to do.

"Take out his best performances and look he sucks!".

His track record in List A is pretty good and overall, he has done pretty well. Maybe let's just give him more chances before coming to a conclusion on either side?

I feel like people forget that there are 5 bowlers that bowl and not all of them will be bowling at a 20 average. If Shinwari is your 4th/5th best bowler in the lineup, that is completely fine. It's like people want 5 elite bowlers that will pick up 5fer's consistently when it is simply not feasible.
 
Yeah I'm sure if you eliminate a player's most dominant performance then they are average or below average. What an absurd thing to do.

"Take out his best performances and look he sucks!".

His track record in List A is pretty good and overall, he has done pretty well. Maybe let's just give him more chances before coming to a conclusion on either side?

I feel like people forget that there are 5 bowlers that bowl and not all of them will be bowling at a 20 average. If Shinwari is your 4th/5th best bowler in the lineup, that is completely fine. It's like people want 5 elite bowlers that will pick up 5fer's consistently when it is simply not feasible.

Take a look again. I was defending Shirwani to somebody who was saying he's only performed 2 or 3 times.
 
Long time no see!

You're again falling for stats blindly. Cricket doesn't work like that.

On ability and potential, he isn't good enough and will not last 3 years. Again, some selective stats at the start of one's career don't mean anything.

Similar case was for Abbas, who we knew didn't have an outswinger and with his trundling pace, batsmen could counter him if they look for the ball that comes in.

Naturally, his average is going to get to "normal" or "poor" range. That's how things have worked since the invention of cricket.

Nobody can maintain a 14-17 average over a large sample size.

Shinwari is very low quality bowler and obviously will have far more bad days than good ones.

He is hardly a very low quality bowler, any more than he is a bowler of great potential. I don't know why people seem to think you have to fall into one bracket or other.

He's a decent fast-medium bowler who can do a job in my opinion, but is not top class at international level. Third seamer in limited overs would be a decent assessment.
 
He's got the x factor of running through any batting lineup, it's a rare trait to have and I am sure if persisted he will get more consistency.
 
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